Mini 551- Mod Abandoned

[Imat]

It seems to me that Lovo is the most scummy. I'm sure we all remember the vote cast against CESc, the first changed vote after the Sensfan. Lovo was too quick to get out of voting Sensfan and bandwagoning on anybody else. IMO, Lovo is somehow tied to Sensfan. If Sensfan is Scum, Lovo would then also be Scum. But we don't know if Sens is, the problem of several pages of posts. Therefore I propose a lynch on Lovo to prove the alignment of Sens.

Elias also seems somewhat Scummy in his held vote, but he hasn't shown himself to be anti-town yet, so I won't point at him yet.

Vote: Lovo

[Imat]

I'm not seeing the joubert lynch, seems as though hes being lynched for, admittedly, confusing and perhaps faulty logic.

And Sens, to jump onto this bandwagon of Joubert, probably not the best move. Seems like you want anybody but yourself to die, instead of actually weeding out the Scum.

If I haven't already,

FoS: Sensfan

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[Imat]

A comment on the Jester comment. I believe the

mod

was just restating what had already been said by the players, not actually hinting at the existence of one. Therefore I don't think the Jester bit is a valid reason to side with SF. Again, Lovo, you seem more scummy than the others right now, and if you are scum, I think that confirms SF's alignment as well...

[Imat]

Nice work, Cavebear, now you are definitely getting in the way of the Town. I'd swear it was staged...

For those of you still looking at Joubert with suspicion, this only heightened my admittedly limited suspicions. Hes barely referenced to, in fact only voted for to get more activity out of him, and he reacts by pushing back at Cavebear specifically. I don't like his whole reaction, so

FoS: Joubert

.

Also, for the "real" cop, if there is one, to investigate SF is rather pointless, as Korts said, because they can claim later when they know more of the Mafia and that will still verify SF. Lynching a potential Power Role, albeit a suspicious one, just because they annoy you is just plain idiocy. So, Cop, if you exist, gather more info, help us the best way you can.

[Imat]

I believe more than one person has said they don't want to put up with SF's PR for another day, hence voting out of annoyance. Also, I already suggested something, if you read back to one of my first posts. I suggested Lovo because his behavior has been scummy and, I believe, linked to SF. Therefore lynching Lovo and confirming his alignment will either confirm SF's scumminess or his innocence. However, it was a weak tie, I had some clues but not enough to really link them, so I kind of gave up on that until I have more evidence. You became the next player to look scummy, so I looked at what you were saying. Currently, I don't know who to lynch, but for now you look suspicious.

[Imat]

Xyl just stepped right up in my mind. "Wake me when SF's been lynched" ? There is no way a comment like that ain't scummy. Anybody truly fighting For the Town and not Against it should be open to other votes based on more scummy behavior. If a lurker were to pop up now and start acting all scummy, would you still vote for SF, who, as has been pointed out, may actually be a cop? You're behavior in this matter, Xyl, has caught my eye since day one, and I am fairly confident a side comment like that raises you in everybody elses eyes as well. Joubert, you wanted to know who I'd vote instead of SF today, Xyl is my answer.

UnVote, Vote: Xilthixlm

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[Imat]

I'm just saying its not a very Pro-Town comment. Even if he was joking, a joke like that is not something a Pro-Town player would make, IMO.

[Imat]

I had other suspicions before. And joking about lynching somebody, though funny when talking about this game, is not funny when playing this game. But again, I had other suspicions.

[Imat]

Is SF even here anymore? I notice he was replaced in another game, so this worries me. If somebody replaces, they may not know about the PR, which will clearly show whether it was faked...

[Imat]

I don't want a Town vic because of a replacement, thats like cheating. I don't cheat, at least not in games with more than myself and bots...Also, what kind of a replacement wouldn't read over the posts anyways?

[Imat]

I can see where you're coming from, their fault for not knowing. I don't really like the idea, feels like cheating, but if it happens, so much the better.

[Imat]

He can't, even if he weren't MIA. If he loses the PR now, hes dead. If his replacement (Probably) loses the PR, hes dead. Not much this guy can do to survive. Though lets see who Hammers, this should be good.

[Imat]

I thought I saw another mini game with you having been replaced. Either that or you replaced somebody...Oh well, its a moot point now, you're back.

[Imat]

Lovo, I also had suspicions about you. They were only vague, but your reaction to this Bandwagon has produced the intended result. I believe, from your response of nothing more than a Bandwagon used to put some pressure on you, that you are Scum. Scum tend to, instead of explaining themselves, point their finger at another player, sometimes more than one. I saw much finger pointing in your last post and nowhere near enough explanation of your own actions.

[Imat]

Wait...Thats the lynch? Wow, really wish I hadn't been gone yesterday. This kinda of blows my link between SF and lovo theory out of the water...

[Imat]

I blocked Elias...Just throwing it out there...sorry to ruin your chain, but he seemed the most Scummy...

[Imat]

...100% sure? That can never happen, unless the person is dead. Then you may POSSIBLY be sure of their alignment.

However, I disagree that CESc's act of not pairing himself is Scummy. If we are all paired and the NK happens, odds are hes the one who did it...Unless of course Sens doesn't get good info, then its probably him. But, in case of the unlikely event of pairing Scum, I think we need to lynch one to clear up our choices...I don't want to ruin what we've got, but its an even better plan in the end.

[Imat]

I think you missed something very important here jerubbaal: This isn't a normal setup. With so many roleblockers, I actually find it likely that a Power Role of some other sort would have some distinguishing mark of some sort. So, in the end, probability in a normal game=close to none, probability in this setup=much, much higher.

And to Cavebear: We should probably lynch if we want this to work well.

[Imat]

I think its (Probably) safe to assume the Mafia don't have a Framer (Or he was blocked) and that none of us are secretly Miller Roleblockers (If there is such a thing). Therefore if we lynch Jerub and he comes up Town, Sens would be the obvious next lynch. Unless people really think here is a Framer AND he escaped the blocks, unlikely as it is.

[Imat]

Vote: O
Vote: O
Vote: P
Vote: S

Vote: J
Vote: E
Vote: R
Vote: U

Vote: G
Vote: U
Vote: I
Vote: L
Vote: T
Vote: Y

Hmm.. That's much more likely to me, at least.

K, so we lynch Jerub. That'd leave 9 of us. 4 pair, with SF being the odd man out. Even though I still don't believe him, I guess this is the best course of action.

We also need a backup plan, for if Jerubbaal comes up town.

How in a million years is this the best plan? Seriously. He even claimed guilty on Joubert, got some disbelieving responses and changed it to me. How blind are you? He is literally the most blatant scum I have seen in a game of mafia

EVER

. There are not PRs in mini-normals. I have looked for one and never found one. This is a game full of roleblockers, so, of course, the mod's going to paint a big fat target to draw a claim from the actual cop day 1. Think!!

He said Joubert was guilty, CESc said "Is this your result?" and then said "Oops, I meant Jerubaal." I don't see any pressure on him to change his result, just an overreaction from you, the target of his investigation. I think it'd be more than easy to confuse Joubert and Jerubaal, both obscure names starting with J. I don't see any pressure to change his verdict, nor do I see him changing to you just because he doesn't like you or what have you. I'd say this overreaction to a possibly Scummy player's result as very Scummy. If you didn't think we should trust SF, why care about it as much as you do? Because its your name?

[Imat]

He does bring up a good point: Why wouldn't Scum lynch the Cop? Perhaps its because of all the Roleblockers. Perhaps, by looking at who was blocked, we can figure out who was Scum. It can only reveal one Scum, but it should reveal Scum.

But, for now, I'm fine with a jerub lynch. His consistent complaining over the loss of his own life for the good of the Town is very Scummy.

[Imat]

Jeru, I'm thinking you completely misread the normal game rules. No special themes or game mechanics makes it a normal and having special themes and games mechanics makes it themed. Is a PR really that themed? I'm thinking no, not at all. Its not something that is found in themes, such as "LotR" or something like that, specifically. Therefore its NOT a special theme or game mechanic as described by the rules.

[Imat]

EBWOP: replace specifically with exclusively.

[Imat]

I think blocking SF if Jeru turns Town is going to be interesting. I'm all for it, and I agree that lynching Jeru is better than lynching SF ATM.

[Imat]

Modnote: No

[Imat]

Sry Khel, didn't think one word would matter. Good call though.

[Imat]

I had legitimate suspicions on Lovo, though others did seem to jump on. I'd look at the end of the wagon more than at the front, but thats just because I'm the front...

SF claiming Cop is the only reason. If SF is Cop, and we lynch him, than it'll be awhile before we end this game, blocked NK and all. Somewhere over 5 Days, I'd think, because it'd take us that long to overcome our fear of ruining a good Role blocking setup. So no, nobody has any reason besides SF claiming Cop.

But you're missing the point. If we lynch you and you turn Town, we'll lynch SF. If we lynch you and you turn Scum, we've still got a Cop. The beauty comes in the relative safety of night. With a good blocking pairs setup, we can, hopefully, prevent the NK. With that in mind, lynching a Townie to reveal Scum or lynching Scum and keeping Cop beats your plan, lynching potential Cop for Investigated Scum. Trade-offs: 1 Town for 1 Scum, 1 Scum for 0 Cop, 1 Cop for 1 Scum. The last one is unacceptable, yet you keep pushing for it. Its a relatively sound plan, more so than yours by far.

[Imat]

Ummm...I voted Xyl? I thought I was voting Lovo at the end there...I'm gonna have to look back on this, I'm confusing myself...

[Imat]

Hey, if somebody is nervous about pairing anybody with any other specific player, I think we should change that pairing. Such as Me and Cavebear: If people think they can't trust us paired, based on the fact that we dun talk much and are replacements so nobody has a read on us yet, I'm fine with that. I think pairing two people we are iffy about is the worst play we could make at this point.

[Imat]

And yes, we very much need everyone to be confirmed and ready to go before moving forward. That includes waiting for Xyl to be replaced, I guess. Also, I'd like to remind everyone that we can send in night actions in advance, but please do NOT do that. I assume that once Khelvaster has a night action from everyone, he'll move to the next day, so we could end up in a bad spot if someone sends in the wrong block in advance and doesn't have time to change it. Makes sense?

Bad logic. Khel will wait until the deadline is up to end the night, otherwise people can deduce from when people were on whether or not they have a night action.

Ummm...Actually, due to the setup, I think its not bad logic. But, in any other game, for future reference, the Mod won't begin the day until the deadline is up, otherwise those who aren't active until halfway to deadline and then send in their decisions, and they happen to be the final person to send in a decision, will be singled out as having one. I think I worded it confusingly, but the Mod won't end night until deadline.

[Imat]

I'm up for a Jeru lynch. His reaction to the logical plan wasn't good, and he continues with it. Hes not helping us, just restating the lynch SF plan over and over again. It holds less water now than it did when he started, IMO, and he hasn't looked at others for Scumminess. I'm sure he considers most of the people willing to vote him to be Scummy, but I also think hes just a bit biased in that regard.

Also Jeru, we're not voting you because of your insults, if you've made any, it because it is a logical plan. We can pretty much keep the NK blocked, hopefully, so we can spend the rest of our time trying to find Scum. A cop helps that, somebody who tunnels another player doesn't as much. And, with NK blocked, we trade a Town for Scum. Thats a bad deal for Scum, not Town. But a Cop for Scum is a very bad idea. You may say "Odds are he ain't a cop," but theres a nearly 100% chance of one of you being Scum, the first plan works much more in our favor than Scum's.

[Imat]

Sorry for inactivity, lost internet for the past week. Although even before that I really had nothing to say - Much of what we're doing is going in circles. Nevertheless, I'll read over what I missed and give my opinions on anything that sparks my interest.

[Imat]

Ok Jerub, I have a question for you. We all know you are deadset on SF being Scum, right? So, who, if anyone, is SF's partner(s)? Certainly you have suspicions which reach beyond the present task of survival, correct?

[Imat]

Cavebear, where'd the no lynch idea come from? Are you assuming Jerub turns Scum? Then why lynch SF. If you're assuming Jerub turns Town, why give SF Scum another day to live? I have no idea where this no lynch inbetween lynches came from.

[Imat]

I don't see where a no-lynch would get us. If we setup the blocks so that we paired them with Scummy players apart, what are the odds there'd even be a NK? I think a no lynch would be delaying the game, not helping either side at all really. Unless the Scum is stupid enough, if paired, to actually NK, outting themselves pretty quick. I still think Jerub is the best option, the outcomes are best that way. Lynching SF may get us somewhere, or it may lose us a Cop. Right now the argument that "SF is already outted and wants to take out at least one Townie on his way down" is useless, because "Jerub is outted as Scum and wants to take the Cop down with him." Honestly, the second seems just as likely as the first, only the second would be so much more beneficial to Scum.

And Jerub, you keep mentioning two confirmed Townies. Korts I can somewhat understand, but you never really explained CESc. His defense of you is all the more disturbing for it. I don't think anybody is confirmed anything until endgame, so please explain where 2 of them come from, mostly CESc.

[Imat]

If we no lynch and get SF's result, we're still left with this same argument tomorrow. I personally feel theres no reason not to lynch Jerub, I can't really see the downside in trading 1 for 1. Heck, I'm thinking it'll be 1 for none. Theres no reason in delaying the game and creating more of these situations when SF does expose Scum, we may as well find out whether or not Jeru is Scum. If you believe SF to be Scum, why allow him to turn the Town against itself by fake-guiltying us? Thats one of many reasons why No Lynch is not a good option, not as good as finding the truth now at least.

[Imat]

Since its so close to lynch, have we decided exactly on which blocking scheme to use? We have two likely scenario's, I think, so we're going to need to narrow that down before Night.

[Imat]

ok, for some reason thought we'd come up with a single scenario...I have no idea why...Well, we can continue if everybody's iun agreement on this scheme then.

[Imat]

You wouldn't necessarily be modkilled. Khelv didn't say he'd modkill. He said he may modkill, not that he would.

[Imat]

Mod:

I am officially requesting replacement, if its not too much trouble, due to the onset of Tests over the next few weeks. I'll try and play until you can find a replacemnt for me, but just know that I won't have as much time for awhile.