Mini 578 - Mistery at Montescuro - Game Over!

[Guardian]

I think the axis of evil is in the area of duck, mac, yos, dbe.

(Nod)

unvote vote: Macavenger

[Guardian]

joudas albert isnt even voting dbe....

unvote vote: dasquian

my original case on dasquian stands.

I like Albert.

[Guardian]

mbf can you expand on 921, 922? I have the lingering worry that you are scum and as you were going down you wanted to make it look like I was your scum buddy by 'distancing'.

Just, expound upon why you thought what you did.

[Guardian]

Albert, why do you keep not mentioning Joudas? You say we need pyro, mac, sl's, votes, but never mention joudas. why?

[Guardian]

Okay: Guys: I'm 95% sure ABR is town (he's replacing Near, remember?).

I'm 92% sure he has this game read correctly, both in that his observations make sense, and that I've done some metagaming on him and he's on an incredible hot streak recently.

Those are pretty damn good odds, despite any independent thought you have.

Add to that that, well, his case on duck and dbe make sense, then it really makes sense to go with it. (shrug)

[Guardian]

fyi, there's no way I'm investigating DBE tonight. if dbe is scum, I'm dead tonight. if dbe is town, she's dead tonight.

there's no way we gain from me investigating dbe tonight.

conversely:
dbe SHOULD investigate me.
if dbe is town, we find out who kills me if they are foolish enough to.
if dbe is scum, we find me dead and dbe lying about it.

[Guardian]

Dasquian, why aren't you voting for one of the people you think are scum?

[Guardian]

Because I thought I already was.

:? Little more than a day has passed since you unvoted.

You did not recall doing so?

[Guardian]

If you thought you'd voted for pyrodwarf, why vote for mbf?

Why did you think you thought pyro was better a day ago, but now think mbf is better?

[Guardian]

Because I put a lot of faith in the belief I made the right choice at the time and can't always remember why I made it ;) You're right to call me up on this confusion, but confusion is all it is. I can tell you one thing with clarity right now though

I don't find the following clear...

With the information I currently have,

the votes distributed how they currently are

,

the fact I'm not sure how close pyrodwarf is to a lynch

, and the fact I still want to reread his posts, I would rather have my vote on mbf than pyrodwarf.

...because I don't understand: How do you count both the red and the green as "information I currently have"??

You're a one to be calling people up on sporadic voting, though :)

:)

[Guardian]

I know pyrodwarf got a couple of votes recently. I didn't count them. This is because I am lazy.

Pyrodwarf hasn't gotten any votes since the last vote count...

Is now really the best time to be "lazy"? You are too lazy to look through the 25 most recent posts for votes, but not to make the player by player analysis of over 500 words?

This strikes me as very odd, especially since there's been less than 25 posts since the last vote count, in none of which pyro has been voted.

First off, where are you coming from that pyro was voted?
Second off, how are you too lazy to count but not too lazy to make these posts you've been making?
Third, where are you coming from that pyro has gotten

a couple

of votes, so many that you fear voting him because you don't know how many votes are on him???

[Guardian]

unvote

vote:

FOS: DBE

not sure about dasq so much. i want to prevent a hammer before I think more in any case.

dbe has been uber suspicious. but... wat if dbe is a watcher?

I'm retreating to the bat-cave.

[Guardian]

<--- temptation to hammer DBE.

[Guardian]

I see strong ties betwixt pyro and ducky.

Not sure if I am sold that DBE is definitely not a watcher. I would hammer if DBE's claim was townie, but if DBE is a watcher, we lynched tracker, watcher, and I'll almost surely die N2.

My predictions for scum though:

DBE, Dasquian, Pyro.

[Guardian]

I'm here, and unconvinced. DBE's 1112 seems odd from scum. Bit gunshy after the Coron escapade.

[Guardian]

vote: pyrodwarf

dbe is scummy on re-read, but could be newb-town-scummy.

pyro i think is good lynch.

[Guardian]

What more do you want?

I re-read DBE, and while there are some glaring scum tells, I'd prefer not to lynch a watcher who can watch me and see who kills me if someone kills me.
I re-read Pyro and found him suspicious.
I re-read Dasquian, and find him suspicious, but less so than Pyro.

[Guardian]

pyro:
all he did till I claimed was vote me for dumb reasons. that's suspicious.

scum like to hone in on one target, it makes it look like theyre scum hunting but really not.

pyro then bandwagoned ducky, easy bandwagon. It is suspicious.

[Guardian]

dasquian:
viewtopic.php?p=1013910#1013910
viewtopic.php?p=1044142#1044142

those sum up my thoughts on dasquian fairly well. he's been a little less obvious about being scum since then though, so I think it is better to lynch pyro.

[Guardian]

I'm not willing to lynch Dasquian since he's been less suspicious recently.

I'm not willing to lynch DBE, cuz what if DBE is a tracker???

Convince me Albert. Yelling at me, ad-hom'ing me, and pointing to one example of past failure isn't going to make me follow you.

[Guardian]

Yeah. Know what? There aren't 3 investigative roles in a mini. Honestly, if there were, (no sarcasm) nice mod'ing Claus. The meta needs fixing, and only by making anti-meta games will it get fixed.

But in his first game, I'm betting Claus didn't make 3 investigative roles.

DBE & Dasq are voting Pyro. That's disturbing.

DBE blaming external parties for lynching Coron is disturbing. Most of all, DBE talking about the town as if she isn't a part of it is disturbing.

Albert, you're not being at all helpful, and many players would just ignore you in my place. But in thinking about it, DBE just's gotta be scum.

unvote vote: DBE

[Guardian]

simulpost o.O

[Guardian]

Albert, I'll vote myself if you promise that if I come up town you'll always henceforth bow on your knees when you see me and worship me as a king.

just saying.

[Guardian]

albert since when is mbf confirmed town?

if albert wasnt replacing near I'd be voting him right now.

little consistency of thought.

[Guardian]

how do we know mbf would have been a mis-lynch, for sure??

[Guardian]

unvote vote: Dasquian

[Guardian]

If dasq's not scum I'm never listening to you again, ever.

peace.

look @ mbf, dbe, yos2, pyro.

and wuts up with sl? (shrug) I don't really have much of an idea of what's going on. Why? Because we let day 1 go on too long, and I'm not gonna re-read 50 pages.

I hope I'm NK'd.

[Guardian]

Why would you want to be killed? This game is irritatingly fun!

Also, we need our cop.

For me it is just kind of irritating, since I'm not very sure who's scum, and everyone but ABR is scummy, and ABR is just scum :\.

Why do you need a cop when you've got ABR??
He's SEVEN for SEVEN!!1

OH.... btw MBF just revealed that he knows I'm a cop. AKA scum.

[Guardian]

Wow, that comes out of nowhere...

DBE, anyone target me last night?

[Guardian]

That's exactly what I did.

I'm extremely surprised DBE passed, but DBE passed.

In addition to proving her, it proves me. We somehow had three investigative power roles, AND a day-vig.

I am a bit miffed at Claus -- I got no result. His reasoning is that I get no result because I already knew that I was innocent.

I asked about this and he said targeting myself to prove DBE was fine and cool and innovative, but getting a result to test my sanity would have been cheap. (shrug).

We do know that DBE and me are what we claim though, but I got no new information about guiltys/innocents OR my sanity last night.

I was hoping I'd find out for sure whether I was insane or not, but to no avail.

With 3 investigative roles, I definitely call my sanity into question.

Albert, WAY to go "DBE or Dasq. Choose one. 97.7% sure." Bunch of horse shit.

[Guardian]

I think Albert might just be an egomaniac, and a charismatic fool. He's replacing Near. I doubt very much that he is scum.

I think the (presumably) three scum lie among Pyro, Yos, Mac, MBF, and Joudas.

I don't want to lynch Joudas, because while there is a possibility that I'm insane, I have an innocent on him.

I want to lynch Pyro. I wish I hadn't sheep'd and though Albert actually knew what he was talking about yesterday. Albert, you need to get your ego in check, and actually make reasoned arguments. Towns win when they work together, not when they blindly follow you. convincing people has the benefit that IF you are WRONG, they can convince you of that.

--

I'll re-read before even considering voting though.

reminder: we are at LYLO. only vote if you are SURE, otherwise scum can quickhammer.

[Guardian]

Words escape me in responding to 1269. Albert is either more idiotic than I thought, or scum.

[Guardian]

(shrug)

no lynch is the right play.

discussion first?

[Guardian]

Here's my rationale:

S = scum dbe
T = town dbe

M = me dead
H = her dead
N = no dead

SM: doesn't matter, I'm dead, no other target would have been better.

SH: very unlikely -- how does she die as scum?

SN: DBE says no one targeted me, I reveal her to be lying scum, and I get to know my sanity.

TM: no other target would be better. DBE gets the odd result that myself and some s cum targeted me. No harm done.

TH: if DBE is dead, and is a watcher, I *SHOULD* get a REAL result from Claus. With 3 investigative roles, My sanity is QUESTIONABLE. If I get a GUILTY on myself, Joudas is scum. If I get an INNOCENT I am naive or sane.

TN: I get a result from Claus, figure out my sanity, and confirm the role of DBE AND my ability to target.



My play made sense. Me being a cop makes sense, from my play d1 d2. Whomever is trying to fit the known facts with me being a scum roleblocker is STRETCHING.

MBF wtf, I never SAID I was confirmed sane. I said my sanity was VERY questionable. "watcher who could be scum???" really??? 1279 reads to me as very suspicious.

[Guardian]

I've never seen a scum watcher or tracker. This is a mini normal...

Trying to un-rule out DBE of being scum with the theory that she is a watcher scum doesn't make sense to me.

[Guardian]

yeah if dbe is a watcher, I'd think I'd get a GUILTY result from the mod, implicating Joudas. Sane or naive would be useful information, too.

I PM'd the mod that no one would believe me that I got no result, that it was kinda unfair, and that I was frustrated and thought it was an odd moding decision, but oh well. (Claus has done an excellent job mod-ing so far other than that disagreement I have, no offense meant!!)

[Guardian]

Huh...that's...bizzare.

Guardian, did you really think that the mod would let you figure out your own sanity by targeting yourself? Mods basically never do that; some don't let cops target themselves at all, others have them always come back as "innocent" no matter what their sanity is, since hte whole idea of a cop investigating himself makes no sense.

Wtf, that's standard? I've never thought that was standard. If a cop role doesn't say that it can't investigate itself, why the hell couldn't it? Docs that don't say cannot protect self CAN protect selves, vigs that don't say can't vig self CAN vig selves, why in fuck would a cop not be able to cop itself?

Making sense is irrelevant -- doctors in this game go out, track someone at night, if they are shot/eaten/bludgeoned heal them, stitch them up so well there is no trace, and both their patient and themselves don't remember a damn thing. I see no reason that it makes sense or should be standard for cops not to be able to get results on themselves if they are allowed to target themselves.

And...I donno, I've just never seen a cop just waste an investigation like that just to test someone else's watcher claim, it really does seem like he might be a scum who didn't want to have to invent another cop clam.

WTF again. Would have... INVESTIGATING DBE been a waste? Because that's what I accomplished. In addition, I *SHOULD* have figured out if I was insane or not insane, which would have validated my night 1 investigation... ESPECIALLY IF DBE IS A WATCHER AND THERE ARE 3 I-ROLES.

Anyway, I highly doubt we have 3 pro-town info roles and a 1 shot vig.

Why? Any response you say will likely boil down to MOD WIFOM.

Besides which, if we do have both a watcher and a tracker, both town roles that are designed to figure out who is targeting who, then it seems likely there's more then one scum role that can target.

SCUM need ONE mislynch to win this. If I am a roleblocker, why not block DBE and have one of my buddies claim that they targeted me? Or am I a scum cop? Or a scum townie, maybe? wtf.

At this point, unless Guardian can explain his actions better, I think it's likely he's some kind of a scum role that can target. DBE's probably telling the truth about being a watcher (unless she's scum with Guardian, which is unlikely).

Scum probably need one more mislynch to win, and it sure as hell seems like you're trying to set it up to be me, yossypoo.

BTW, I wouldn't completly rule out the possibility of a "Scum-watcher" in a mini normal; the guidelines say...here, let me find it....
http://www.mafiascum.net/cgi-bin/wiki.p ... Definition

Other (new or otherwise) roles can be included. However, there should be no more than 1-2 of these, and they should be based around the usual game mechanics: Killing, Protecting, Investigating, Voting.

...so, one scum watcher would probably be fine.

bullshit.

But, while it's possible, I agree it's pretty unlikely.

but if you got to endgame with dbe you'd want to plausibly lynch her... ah I see. leaving the door open when there's no reason to.

So, I'm thinking:

DBE probably pro-town
Guardian is probably scum.

That being said, considering we've got 8 people and 2 claimed information roles, a no-lynch is probably a good idea for today.

no lynch is DEFINITELY a good idea for today, there's no probably about it.

Your justification for me = probably scum is dumb.

Albert apologizing for attacking Yos is even dumber.

I've never misidentified Yos2 scum, and I'm pretty near calling it that Yos2 is scum.

[Guardian]

I want to point out that the thinking that I am "PROBABLY (!!!) scum" is predicated on my being a scum power role that claimed cop day 2 as explanation for pushing a deadline lynch on a tracker, and then decided to target himself night 2 -- INSTEAD of using whatever power I might have -- get this, IN ORDER to confirm a town watcher WHO WOULD HAVE BEEN A PLAUSIBLE LYNCH.

I'm yelling because this is PREPOSTEROUS.

[Guardian]

scummy as hell ^

fuck you.

[Guardian]

0.) Be civil. This is a game. Personal attacks are punishable by modkill.

Indiscriminate modkill please.

please.

then I won't have to deal with albert anymore. I understand why Adel was lamost driven away from the site because of you.

[Guardian]

Yes. Please. Or replace me, whichever.

My disenjoyment in this game is growing exponentially, from no fault of the mod.

Sorry for any offended by me, incl. Albert.

I just can't tolerate irrational attacks on me, or scum based attacks. It is a character flaw I've never managed to overcome. See Big Love mafia for an example of this and a place I've provided references of a few other places this has happened.

I'm really a cop, fwiw. Peace. Again, I apologize.

[Guardian]

See sig. Definitely modkill or replace me in this game. I'm very sorry Claus, players.

albert is town, so is dbe.

yos2 probably scum, but I'm not 'calling it'.

rest uncertain. peace.

[Guardian]

Claus, if I'm not modkilled, feel free to wait, and see if I come back. No promises though. I see no reason to continue conflict with ABR, or hurt his feelings, but I also see little reason to continue playing with him.

[Guardian]

If I had to guess, Pyro, Yos2, Joudas, with my sanity or Joudas's GF status causing the N1 investigation to go afoul. (shrug). Anyways, signing out soon, just tying up other loose ends.

[Guardian]

well, I'll surely be able to send in a night action. Maybe if I investigate myself again... lol jk .

DBE, you should watch me again, in case I am killed.

if I'm night killed, you won't have to worry about replacing me at all .

before mbf posted that thing for me being town, I saw him as scummy. But... seems like a lot of effort for scum to do. Is this wifom?

(shrug) night.

[Guardian]

Why would scum not complain about your playstyle?

By the same logic, you know I've complained about your playstyle -- why don't you know I'm not scum?

In other news, MBF is not mafia.

Whatever frustrations I may have with Albert, I very much doubt he is mafia.

Now, yesterday, I thought I was not sane. Maybe I am not. No way of knowing, with all innocent results.

But, if I am sane,

the scum are Pyro, Yos2, Mac. I could well be sane. I ended up lynching a tracker and almost a watcher because I just didn't believe in three I-roles. I think Claus did a great job messing with the 'normal' setup in this game, and included 4 power roles, including 3 I-roles and a sane cop.

I highly suspect Pyro, Yos2... and Mac very well could round that group out.

Albert, assuming whomever complained about your style is town is pure folly, and I say this with us all knowing I complained about your style. It just doesn't follow.


Yos2, Pyro, and probably Mac comprise the scum group. They let the cop live for 3 nights; they should lose. I've not at all played a perfect game, or even a good one. Lynching Coron was dumb, and listening to Albert and abandoning Pyro for Dasquian/DBE was as dumb if not moreso. I was very tempramental yesterday.

However, I'm town, and I'm fairly sure that Pyro and Yos2 are scum, and Macavenger just seems to be the logical last one.

I know it is lylo. I am confident Yos2 is scum, and that there won't be a quick hammer effort by the scum, since he's among them.

Yos2 tried to set me up for mislynch yesterday, plain and simple. He reacted very strongly against someone saying I should investigate him, as well.

vote: Yosarian2

[Guardian]

Why do you think Macavenger is the best option, Albert? I think he's scum, but the least likely of the three that I think are scum.

[Guardian]

Well, there can't be more than 3 scum, otherwise they've already won.

Maybe Claus thought we'd just destroy each other with the counter-claims.

Albert, Yos2 always plays a good game, but I'm pretty sure he is scum here for the reasons I mentioned.

&Joudas, yeah, maybe the scum have a godfather. If they do, I'd guess it were you. But, I feel strongly that Albert is town, I know I am town, I feel mildly/very comforted by the innocent results on you and mbf, and I have a strong Yos2=scum read.

[Guardian]

albert, if you think the scum are yos, pyro, {Mac or Joudas}, then why not lynch Yos and Pyro and then decide?

[Guardian]

And the second sentance is even worse. If you really thought I was scum, Guardian, and we're heading into a lynch or lose, you sure as hell should have investiagted me.

No... Cop 101 is investigate those you are uncertain about. I was investigating MBF or Mac, period.

You wanted to be able to lynch me without being proven a liar?

We're at lylo... if I'm 'mislynching you', being proven a liar is irrelevant...

Albert... sigh. I'm sad that all I can do to look townie is do what I did. I really wish that you thought I was town for other reasons. I thought I had flip-outs like that put behind me. I'm sorry; you didn't deserve that, nor did Claus. Worth noting is that I've tried faking an explosion like that at least once before.

I got quite a stern talking to, btw :P.

[Guardian]

Guardian had absoltuly no problem with me until I attacked him

This isn't true, for the record.

I mentioned him a few times before, but his arguments were too powerful. Yos2 is just such a cunning manipulator; I am convinced he is scum, but I recognize that it may be difficult to convince others he is scum if you are not so convinced.

[Guardian]

Guardian, you were unsure about your sanity. The right move would have been to investigate Yosarian.

That actually makes sense.

Yos2 was saying I should have investigated him because I was unsure, which I wasn't that's dumb.

But maybe it would have been better to investigate someone I really, really thought was scum.

Anyways, Note how Yos2 isn't trying to convince me that I'm wrong, he's trying to mislynch me. Ho hum...

[Guardian]

If Yos2 is sucessfully lynched before I check stuff again and I die, lynch Pyro, then consider whether to lynch Mac or Joudas. Albert or MBF will be around to make that decision, I have faith in them. I lean slightly towards Mac... but only ever so slightly. Night.

[Guardian]

I don't see the point of un-voting, I am pretty sure Yos2 (and Pyro) are scum.

[Guardian]

So, why did you unvote? Should I?

For absolute clarity when I'm dead:

I am sure are scum

Yosarian2 - Early play unlike that of a townie, feared being investigated, ill-founded attack on me, tricky scummy vibe thing
Pyrodwarf - Single-minded-ness all game.

I am sure are town

Albert - Near's play, in which he preferred self-lynch to power-role lynch
MBF - Exculpation of me, behavior while near lynch

I am not sure

Macavenger
Joudas

Slight preference for Joudas being scum, but I keep flipping in my mind between Joudas and Macavenger, so I either need to re-read, or hope that someone who follows me has better judgment than I do.

If Joudas is town, why aren't I dead, and why isn't he?

[Guardian]

unvote

?

no way albert + joudas = scum though... HM..

[Guardian]

Nah still Yos2, just, the quick timing on the votes makes me :X.

[Guardian]

No instant hammer.

I'd like to see what Yos2 says now, if anything .

Like I said yesterday I'm 95% sure he's scum... but waiting a day to hammer doesn't hurt.

[Guardian]

Mac & me have posted since Yos2 was at minus 1 without hammering.

This means that, from yos's point of view, if he's town, me and Mac are sure town, and 3 of MBF, Joudas, ABR, and PyroDwarf are scum.

He hasn't really commented on this, at all.

Anyways, I'll probably hammer soon, nothing mind-blowing has come from Yos2's direction.

The only thing that troubles me is ABR saying he found Pyro townie... I think that's a mistake.

Yos2 Pyro Mac makes a lot of sense to me, though maybe sub Joudas for Mac.

Anyways...

[Guardian]

I have little to say about this game...

I hate ABR's playstyle; I used to think it was great, but then realized he just randomly selects players and decides to get them lynched, and pretends like he has really good reasons for doing so. Townies would have to have elaphantitis sized balls to "stand up" to his lies about how sure he is and how he has reasons to be really sure about who is scum. He abuses positions where he is confirmed as likely town and ruins games based on his whims of who scum are, ignoring other's input.

I shudder that I am guilty of similar re: Coron; I give you my sincerest apologies.

[Guardian]

Also I hate to break it to you and Guardian but I am not, in fact, actually a duck IRL. Bad times.

This post was hilarious, btw.