Mini #597 - Swift speed: Werewolves (Game over)

[Phoebus]

vote: korts

Mod:

Forum time adjusts by user settings.

Are you using Eastern Time (American)? which I think would be default...
or Central European Time?

I suggest giving some sort of reference to ET or CET. Or would that be EDT and CDT...?

[Phoebus]

Did I mention it was a random vote?

[Phoebus]

And you're voting someone for contradictions.

You asked for a reason for a random vote.

I mentioned it's not random.

So you're asking me what my reason for being non random is?

Why so jumpy?

[Phoebus]

hey Shy Guy!

Why the sarcasm?
Give the guy a break!

Are you not as shy as you claim??

[Phoebus]

Way to sidestep korts

[Phoebus]

Mr. Blonde...that is a jaded argument...
There is no way he will get enough support to pull off a no lynch so your discussion/reason for voting is moot.

[Phoebus]

I asked you why so jumpy?

You thought it well enough to question both the supposed randomness and admitted non randomness of my vote.

You're looking for things to talk about.

When someone actually asks you a direct question...you ignore it?

[Phoebus]

Because we only started and I feel the deadline looming.

So you'd rather off someone with your OMGUS vote...than have someone vote you?

Deadline looming...there are very few people who really fear that and a quicklynch.

Why is it not random?

Fos Phoebus

You're voting No Lynch.

Why do you care? And how does that get me an FoS?

You discount a hunch and potential logic/tell?

Wonderful

[Phoebus]

It'd be good if the swearing was kept to a minimum.

So yeah...my question stands:

With me having a reason, how do YOU discount a hunch/tell from korts and jump directly to an FoS?

[Phoebus]

I don't fear a quicklynch, because I don't see bandwagons building up.

I'm fine with you voting me, as long as you give me something to defend myself against.

Here you go again - third time doing something weird.

A) First you jump votes quickly and OMGUS a fellow player. The reason you mention for this is being ironical and some rubbish about lynching being killing and such fluff.

B) You say you're jumpy because we just started AND deadline is looming.

C) Now you claim you're not worried about quicklynch but felt deadline looming previously?

Taken as a whole...those things don't make sense.

confirm vote: korts

[Phoebus]

Well, it's not technically OMGUS but it's close enough.

Voting donkeyz on flimsy reasons.
Then committing "Irony" of your own. i.e. contradicting what you said in the first place.

[Phoebus]

With 72 hour deadlines, this isn't a real big contradiction.

See...it all sounds a little bit hollow since you voted for donkeyz based on a contradiction.

Any contradiction is a contradiction. Big or small...how should it matter?
Especially if that is being used as a reasoning for your OWN actions.

Practice what you preach my friend.

And in my last post I clarified what I meant by OMGUS when I said it.
If you want to stick to technicalities and not read what I said - then sure, I'm a big dirty scumbag.

[Phoebus]

Both of your previous posts korts - are based on your perception.

Bring me something empirical.
At least I'm backing up my claims with some posts/points.

You're calling it names and doing nothing else...

[Phoebus]

Blonde...read post 45 properly. There are three points there.
Read them. Understand them.

If you like, refer to my previous points where I have talked about those points.

Put those things together with my hunch/tell and I'm quite sure korts is scum. Therefore I confirm to emphasise this belief.

As far as reasons in post 19 go, I don't feel obliged to speak on that right now.

I'm going away from my desk. Let others weigh in with their decisions before I proceed.


korts - you make me laugh.

[Phoebus]

haha!!

I was almost tempted to ask clammy to put in his two cents, specifically, earlier. I resisted the temptation.

Unless this is ultra big major coincidence...

Here's my set of tells.
Some of you will believe me. Others won't.

These usually work. At other times, they don't.


My theory: clammy + korts = scum.


1. Clammy posted first (post 3) - mentioned it specifically - then went on to vote korts.
No random vote.
It is a tendency for scum to want to show participation. Very many times the first couple posts are scum - especially when expressly mentioned - and many of these many times - the first person voted for, is a partner.

Reason? So that if the said partner is under pressure later - they can be more "genuinely" bussed.
e.g. "Oh sure! I voted someone else but I knew something was wrong with X. See? I've voted him previously. Of course we can't be partners, eh?"


2. Post 6 is another happy, helpful, fuzzy look to be townie post from clammy.

3. korts ignores clammy in his first post ( 8 ) and goes on to say something about Chaos...which has no basis as I see it... I treat it as random on his part.

4.

donkeyz, by voting killa with the reason of stopping the killing, you yourself have fallen into a contradiction, since lynching killa will be an act of killing in itself. Minor plothole in logic.

Post 11 is donkeyz saying - "oh yea! irony!"

Then...

Hey, no problem. Glad to help.

Unvote, Vote: donkeyz

No reason given for switch.
The only interaction was the one about contradiction.
So...we have korts voting for this apparent contradiction. Correct me if I'm wrong.

This surmise would be strengthened by post 15


5. I come in at post 19 with all the thoughts I've mentioned above in my head and vote korts on a hunch. To see what kind of reaction it elicited from korts and clammy.

As I've mentioned in my previous posts -

korts reacted with:

--> asking a reason for my random vote
random? reason? don't compute together.

When I mention vote is now random (and now you know why)
--> asks for reason for not random vote.

Here's when I start seeing more things.
The jumpiness.

Next, he mentions the day starting and feeling the deadline looming.
I am aware that we have a 72 hour deadline but even the first 24 are not up.
How is it looming? Many people have not even weighed in with their thoughts.
Why the looming?

After I mention all of this and his contradictions, he uses sarcasm (always a tool for people who can't be witty and a minor scumtell) and votes me - confessedly OMGUS.

Then the sarcasm and name calling goes on.
Calling my theory BS
Talking about confirming being a useless formality.
Then the swipe about voting for himself because he made me laugh.

The icing on the cake is this post by clammy - WHOM I initially suspected as korts' partner:

I feel uncomfortable that my vote is on this potential wagon, yet i don't like the way korts or phoebus are playing.

unvote; vote: Phoebus
- Mostly to make sure korts isn't quick-lynched.

The mod has edited in a vote count at the top of this page

Before clammy voted me, both korts and I were on 2 votes.
Unwilling to vote on a potential wagon, he puts korts on 1, puts me on 3.

Whee!


korts - you wanted me to give you something to defend against.
Does this qualify?

Or is it still BS?

It's very easy to call something BS but prove it.
Perhaps what I'm saying is BS but I'm giving reasons - so at most you could call me wrong or misguided.

Yet, you refuse to rebut my arguments. Call names and generally not engage in discussion with me.

How is that useful?

And like I said - perceptions differ from person to person. BS to you might be manure to someone else.

[Phoebus]

Hmm.

I was wrong about clammy. I acknowledge and am willing to face consequences, if any.

I am not a jester, however, and for now, will

vote: donkeyz

for polishing off clammy without a chance to claim.

Time to take a look at the count.

[Phoebus]

A tracker follows someone to see who, if anyone, their mark targets.

A game with only scum and town would've been called Mountainous. No such thing was said before we began.

Since this is a normal mini, I'd suggest you take a look at the wiki page for standard roles.

Oh and also, as far as I'm concerned, this outcome doesn't absolve Korts in my book. I'm just waiting to see what Donkeyz has to say.

[Phoebus]

claim what his role was.

trackers are pretty useful.
he might have been given a chance to prove his utility.

[Phoebus]

Phoebus is away for the next 14 or so hours.
He will respond then.

I will address the questions that I noticed as I skimmed...

My current vote is admittedly reactionary.

I've already said that I don't find Korts cleared of all wrong-doing.
Yes, I attacked him yesterday. Part of that attack is what he calls broken logic. Part of the attack was tied in to clammy being scum. Seeing as clammy was pro town, that shoots a hole in my theory, eh?

At present, if not for donkeyz or korts (and i'm yet to read donkeyz's response), I'd vote for Jenter Broliwhatever.
It would be semi OMGUS. His reasons for voting me seem off and a tad opportunistic.
Of course, this is off a skim read only - yet...first impressions might not be too off...

[Phoebus]

Look - I already mentioned in my first post that I was wrong and I was ready to face consequences.
I'm definitely not a jester.

I voted donkeyz for the hammer.

I cannot be as aggressive today, as I was yesterday, solely for the fact that my case has fallen to pieces with the revelation of clammy's role/alignment.

While, in my opinion, Korts is still scum, the link I saw between him and clammy is obviously non existent.

To follow this up, I will

unvote: donkeyz ; vote: korts

Please don't tell me to explain all of my reasons against korts again. They are all out there for you read, if you take the effort.

Admittedly, with me being wrong about clammy, my own faith in the reasoning against korts has taken a hit.

My lynch - if it occurs - will not be useful in any way, other than to analyse and look for people who seemed to be opportunistic in their votes for me - someone who piled on the votes without bothering to back their case up.

I suggest these people be closely examined tomorrow.

I would also suggest that they not be let off by claiming my "suspicious" actions.
My actions have not been suspicious. Only misdirected.
The only "suspicion" is my absence for a part of today, when I said I would be around.
However, regular life concerns kept me away. Whether that is valid or not, is up to you to decide.

I should be around for the next hour or so and will address any concerns you might have, to the best of my abilities. Otherwise, when you find out that I'm not scum...please listen to this "dying wish", if you will...

There is a slim chance of me being around deadline time tomorrow.
However, I suspect that the matter might well be settled before that, somehow.

Also, someone asked if my potential vote for Jenter wouldn't be OMGUS. I've already admitted to that in the same post in which I mentioned Jenter. So whoever mentioned that...look alive.
Jenter feels like someone who's riding the wave of anti Phoebus sentiment. The sentiment is not particularly questionable. Riding along with it, without pulling your weight on it, is.

[Phoebus]

Post 178 is stupid, by the way.
Leaving a vote somewhere, without reading, which is likely to harm an innocent is stupid.

[Phoebus]

Shy Guy - you missed me mentioning a preference for Jenter Brolicani twice?

[Phoebus]

1) I wouldn't mind the grimmy wagon - since I said his votes seem sheepish.
Similar in that both are voting without decent reasons of their own.
If anything, Jenter was more blatant about his wagonning, while grimmy, more careless, and therefore, dangerous...

2) I am not you. I cannot tell what you perceive. I cannot say. Korts is suspicious because of the way he's been behaving. My perception. Gut feeling. Cannot elaborate.

3) I believe you called donkeyz inattentive? I could subscribe to that theory. If I wanted to be rabid, I wouldn't have unvoted him.

The bottom line is this.

I have a feeling about korts and jenter. it isn't necessarily connecting them to each other.
I am aware my feeling yesterday was wrong. This one could be as well.
Unless I die, or one of them dies...the town, as a whole, wouldn't be able to figure out which.

I've been wrong about clammy. Some would call it stupid or hasty.
I wouldn't disagree.
I would disagree with it being called scummy.
If the consequence is my death, my wishes have been expressed.
If the consequence is either of those two being hanged, I will reflect upon whatever information comes up...in new light.

[Phoebus]

If I were pressed I would vote Phobe but seeing as he will be lynched by days end at this point anyway I see the next few hours to get more info about each other

One could read that as: I'll just sit back and not commit, let the game mechanics do their thing and thus, stay out of analysis range.

Why do you need to be pressed to take a stand?

[Phoebus]

I think that in the interests of self preservation, I could do:

unvote: korts ; vote: Grimmy