It'll take me awhile to work my way into this game, but for now I propose we disband the two most populous wagons and lynch Guardian.
Mini 578 - Mistery at Montescuro - Game Over!
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mikeburnfire Flashy
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Ah, my good scum friend Yosarian. How fare you? I recognize Guardian and Coron as well. I hope this game is treating you well.
It'll take me awhile to work my way into this game, but for now I propose we disband the two most populous wagons and lynch Guardian.
unvote, vote Guardian."It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill with rope and a slim majority."
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mikeburnfire Flashy
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Your foul attack on the duck, mostly."It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill with rope and a slim majority."
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mikeburnfire Flashy
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Because he is a very good player!"It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill with rope and a slim majority."
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mikeburnfire Flashy
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I mean that you are suspicious for attacking him for insufficient reasons and for reasons that can apply to multiple players. Also for your indifference between killing duck and nair."It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill with rope and a slim majority."
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mikeburnfire Flashy
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Hmmn.unvote, vote DarlaBlueEyes"It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill with rope and a slim majority."
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mikeburnfire Flashy
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Joudas, you seem to be angry. Is it because I've bumped your scumpartner up from being in the "minority" to "a viable candidate"?
Of course, Dasquian is expressing even more irritability at my move. "Putting us in a bad situation" just seems like his way of attacking me because he doesn't like me moving my vote from Guardian to DBE.
I don't want Near lynched. I'd like to pressure DBE more."It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill with rope and a slim majority."
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mikeburnfire Flashy
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Too many people want to lynch Near, IMO. Perhaps there's a good reason for it that I didn't pick up, being the replacement and all, but I think it's too strongly pushed, and a lot of people are just saying "Near is scum and I won't pursue anyone else until he's lynched"."It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill with rope and a slim majority."
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mikeburnfire Flashy
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What the hell Coron. We have several people with 3+ actual votes, and you roleclaim because you have 1 vote and one theoretical vote.
I want to abandon my current vote and vote you now."It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill with rope and a slim majority."
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mikeburnfire Flashy
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No, you know what?
unvote, vote Near
Coron's roleclaiming was pointless and the only reason I can understand him doing it so close to deadline is because he wants to cause chaos and disrupt the impending Near lynch. I predict them being scum together."It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill with rope and a slim majority."
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mikeburnfire Flashy
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To disrupt the speed of the game to discuss how plausible your sudden claim is.
Please explain how your claiming benefits us in any way."It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill with rope and a slim majority."
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mikeburnfire Flashy
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There are other ways to stop people from voting you that involvekeeping useful abilities to yourself
Points two and three are refuted by the fact that we don't know you're not lying scum.
What does claiming NOW benefit the town? You have no information for us. You are forcing the doctor, should we have one, to make a difficult choice between believing you and deciding if you are worth the protection. You have made us stop discussing who we were going to lynch between Near and DBE, allegedly just so the one person who had their vote on you would stop voting you, in which case you are more focused on your own survival than the good of the town, making you scum."It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill with rope and a slim majority."
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mikeburnfire Flashy
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Coron, you are lying scum. You are either a mafia tracker, or you are a vanilla mafia pretending. I can just see what's going to happen tomorrow.
"I targeted the person who died during the night."
"I targeted this person (scummate). He did nothing/targeted person not dead."
"I targeted this person (obvious townie). He did nothing."
"I targeted this person. I was roleblocked."
"I targeted somebody, but I don't want to reveal my results because the person I tracked targeted somebody who is not dead, leading me to believe that they are a powerrole who should remain secret.""It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill with rope and a slim majority."
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mikeburnfire Flashy
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Hey, I can dig it.
unvote, vote Coron"It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill with rope and a slim majority."
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mikeburnfire Flashy
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First of all, I'm not "people". I never said you cannot read between sk and mafia. The possibility of a SK is not even being considered by me, and I find your suspecting people of being SKs to be foolish given that there is no evidence they exist.
Near was two votes from a lynch. Do you REALLY think we couldn't have gotten those two votes in four days time without your claim? Rubbish.
If you truly are town, then go ahead and pull my "good player" card. It's be like a blind paraplegic revoking my driver's license.I certainly hope you have a reason for this at the end of the game MBF, or I might have to pull your "this player is a good mafia player" card."It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill with rope and a slim majority."
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mikeburnfire Flashy
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As much as I enjoy watching you resort to personal attacks when you run out of serial killer conjecture and excuses for your poor play, it's time to end this day. Your may have a few people fooled, and your claim may keep you alive for awhile, but I don't buy it one bit. If we're both alive tomorrow, expect me to strongly advocate your death.
unvote, vote Near"It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill with rope and a slim majority."
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mikeburnfire Flashy
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Yes I do. I can't see you as town because your claiming was illogical and the only reason you have for doing so, excluding self-preservation, seems to be that you think that you, as a tracker, are the most important pro-town role in the game. But you aren't. You can get innocent results on a mafia and you can get guilty results on a cop, doc, or roleblocker. Loosing a tracker is no more important to me than losing a townie. I don't care about your faked results.I resort to personal attacks because you don't even use any logic in your attacks on me
Guardian, just.... stop. Everytime you post you look scummy. I don't see what "SK tells" Coron sees from you, but it could be the fact that you don't seems to care who dies."It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill with rope and a slim majority."
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mikeburnfire Flashy
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Doc could be roleblocked. Multiple killers could target the doc's target. Doc could be naive.
You can laugh if you want to, but I'll take a townie who plays well over a tracker who doesn't anyday."It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill with rope and a slim majority."
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mikeburnfire Flashy
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Being technically correct is the best kind of correct.
My point is that your claimed role is nothing special-- not dependable and not worth protecting. You can still get innocent results on a mafia and you can get guilty results on a cop or roleblocker. Stop trying to lead the doctor."It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill with rope and a slim majority."
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mikeburnfire Flashy
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Yosarian, I respect that you would give Coron the benefit of the doubt, but you cannot deny that what he did has no real benefit to the town. You and Coron and I, we're quite experienced at this game, and surely you will agree with me that an investigation role, especially one whose results can be inconclusive, should not out himself Day 1 in the hopes of getting doc protection.
Why would coron claiming tracker get people to unvote Near?
I think he claimed to disrupt the impending lynch. If we suddenly have a lot of chaos and activity, requests for deadline extensions would be given more consideration. There's really no other reason for such a sudden revelation.
Or do you really think that Coron claimed tracker just to get people to vote for HIM so they'd unvote Near? That would not only be terrible scum stratagy...
unless Near is more important than Coron. A Godfather-type or scum powerrole more useful than what he is. He has already said that he considers himself to not be very successful at winning, so maybe he thinks that sacrificing himself to save Near is a good idea.
People like you and MikeBurnFire reacted in a wierd way to his claim, and you're saying that you're reacting like this to his claim because his claim was scummy and his claim was scummy becuase it'd make you react like this. Uhhh....
His claim is weird because it has no pro-town benefits from my point of view, and disrupted the flow of the game.
I liked how Near defended herself and kinda wanted to unvote her. But with DBE's power claim and Coron's attempt to out it (along with his already suspicious action), I'm going to suggest that somebody hammer Near."It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill with rope and a slim majority."
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mikeburnfire Flashy
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I suppose that's true.
No need to rush."It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill with rope and a slim majority."
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mikeburnfire Flashy
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One more day wouldn't be enough to shift the entire game. I don't want to vote you, mostly because I don't think you've been very scummy, but given the circumstances as of late and the deadline, I won't likely be moving it. Sorry, but you're going to be the lynch. Nothing personal."It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill with rope and a slim majority."
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mikeburnfire Flashy
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I can support disbanding the Near wagon, but I do not want to speed lynch Dasquian.
FOS: Guardian.You know better than to speedlynch in such a manner.
unvote, vote Coron. Gonna stop supporting the wagon I don't like and start one I do."It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill with rope and a slim majority."
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mikeburnfire Flashy
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And yes, I am aware of the hypocracy of criticizing Guardian for starting a wagon while starting my own. I don't think either of these wagons are going to go anywhere though."It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill with rope and a slim majority."
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mikeburnfire Flashy
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I have to go to bed now. I am tired and am unable to make coherent posts. Guardian, I disagree with you on everything so far this game. Coron is scummy, I don't want to lynch Near, I don't think Dasq is suspicious, and I don't want to lynch DBE now that she's claimed a power role, but there's only 8 hours until the deadline. I am not going to pick between the two/three. I am just going to vote Coron. Like voting third-party in an American election, my vote will do nothing, but it is what I support."It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill with rope and a slim majority."
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mikeburnfire Flashy
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..."It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill with rope and a slim majority."
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mikeburnfire Flashy
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vote: Guardian"It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill with rope and a slim majority."
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mikeburnfire Flashy
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What's that mean?
I didn't know what to say. What happened after I left that night is truly ridiculous.
Are you annoyed that you are responsible for a tracker lyn-
Fuck no. I'm not responsible for the tracker lynch. My vote was on Coron as a protest vote because I didn't want to lynch either of the main candidates. Even though I didn't trust Coron and heavily advocated his lynch, the way in which it was achieved was utter stupidity. He went from zero votes to majority votes in under 12 hours. Had I been awake around this time of deadline I would have unvoted him based on this evidence alone.
Going to respond to this?
Your inability to commit to your suspicions was what I was referring to. Your on-and-off of Near, DBE, Dasq, and Mac mainly. Your explanation of having "minimal preference as to who dies among my top 3/4 suspects" wasn't good enough for me.
My vote on you, Guardian, was because you coerced DBE to reveal her watcher results on Dasq. But now I remember that watchers don't watch what their target does, just the people who target their target. I got tracker and watcher confused.
Unvotefor now."It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill with rope and a slim majority."
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mikeburnfire Flashy
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Mac, DBE, and near, why did you let guardian's insistance lead your hand? - PyroDwarf
Actually, Mac was the one who empowered Guardian to switch to Coron. It was only after Mac assured Guardian that Near would be lynched anyway if there wasn't enough support on Coron that he started strongarming it.
Anyway, I'm kinda not really suspicious of Guardian right now. Why push for a Coron lynch when he could have chosen between Near and DBE, yah? Near is not confirmed, but definitely likely to be town. DBE's claim is null for me. I might vote Mac later, though I don't see any real evidence for a mac-duck scumgroup.
Sleep now."It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill with rope and a slim majority."
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mikeburnfire Flashy
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Whatever."It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill with rope and a slim majority."
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mikeburnfire Flashy
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Coron's play made no sense and had no pro-town benefit. The closest theory I could come up with is that he was trying to cause chaos and disorder."It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill with rope and a slim majority."
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mikeburnfire Flashy
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That's because I don't trust him. He's playing his cards close to his chest, and he's trying to force an attack on me right now, saying that I helped whip up the sudden Coron lynch (which I didn't, I just cast the first vote and left) and voting me for trying to lynch a power role (which is easy to do only now that I've been proven wrong)."It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill with rope and a slim majority."
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mikeburnfire Flashy
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You argued it ONCE yesterday, and you never gave a good reason why he COULDNT be scum.
My arguments against him did eventually lead to his death, but I am not the only one who thought his actions were suspicious, as evidence by the fact that he was eventually lynched. Even you admitted yesterday that his claim was weird and a mistake as town. It's funny how strongly you're defending him only after he's dead."It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill with rope and a slim majority."
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mikeburnfire Flashy
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You protested more than I noticed, Yosarian. I will give you that. But I will not apologize for not understanding Coron's actions. He claimed to be a ambiguous power role for faulty reasons near the deadline, and requested doctor protection. These are actions of a scum."It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill with rope and a slim majority."
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mikeburnfire Flashy
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I meant that his results would be ambiguous.
Yes, I was hoping for a no-lynch.
Yes, I would have unvoted him before deadline if he was being speedlynched."It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill with rope and a slim majority."
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mikeburnfire Flashy
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Good grief.
Given the current crop of candidates on the list, Near and DBE, and the impending deadline, I didn't feel comfortable with lynching either of them. I put my vote on Coron because I felt he deserved it more and would have liked to have to haveeventuallylynched him. I didn't want to speed-lynch him."It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill with rope and a slim majority."
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mikeburnfire Flashy
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Interesting developments."It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill with rope and a slim majority."
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mikeburnfire Flashy
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Hey now, leaving DBE and Guardian alone isn't such a bad idea, but I disagree that we should lynch MBF!"It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill with rope and a slim majority."
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mikeburnfire Flashy
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Guardian wrote:DBE should almost unquestionably target me tonight, so she can say who killed me if I die, imho.DBE wrote:then why don't you investigate me tonight and see if I am telling the truth.Guardian wrote:How about I not waste an investigation?"It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill with rope and a slim majority."
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mikeburnfire Flashy
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With one dead tracker a claimed cop and watcher, there shouldn't be any more investigative roles. So why are you trying to out the protective roles, Guardian?
What is the case against mac? I must have missed it...Near wrote:MBF, lynch macvenger. What do you think?
I did consider it, but I didn't consider it seriously, as I didn't expect an experienced player to do such a strange and incautious play.Yos wrote:It bothers me that you apparently never even considered the possibily he might have been telling the truth.
Because the graveyards are full of indispensable townies.You really would rather no-lynch on day 1, rather then either lynch a claimed vanillia or rather then at least try to lynch someone else? Why do you think that's a pro-town stratagy?dasq wrote:In fact, why vote Coron if you wanted a no lynch? Was the purpose to get a no lynch without looking like you supported it?
I was expressing my distrust of Coron and letting everybody know that I would have gone after him intently the next day.pyrodwarf wrote:Mike, other players are asking good questions, why place a vote on anyone if you wanted a no lynch?
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I've been indecisive about Guardian and DBE's claims. On one hand, watcher and tracker go together in most games. Add to that fact that Guardian has been out-there most of the game. If he's scum, he's got guts by sticking his neck out for the Tracker lynch and now attempting to push a Watcher lynch. His claim of cop could be a well-improvised way to excuse himself for suspecting Coron and a good reason to suspect DBE.
On the other hand, as soon as Guardian claimed, DBE believed it, saying that his .01% doubt is correct, and suggesting to be investigated. Her watcher claim could be something that her and her scummates decided would be best. Either get a solid claim, or out the real watcher.
But back to the other hand, Guardian has been discrediting DBE's claim while at the same time believing it. Even now he's voting her, but telling her to investigate him.
So, I don't trust either of them. Instead, I'm going to vote Yosarian, who is the person I suspect the most who has not claimed an investigative role.
vote:Yosarian"It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill with rope and a slim majority."
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mikeburnfire Flashy
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As scum, he would have had reasons. Town or not, his actions have led to other claimed investigative roles.You keep saying "he's an experenced player", and he is, but dosn't that show he wouldn't so something as stupid as claim tracker as scum for no good reason on day 1?
If you're trying to make the case that it's better to lynch a townie Day 1 than to not lynch at all, I disagree.A no lynch on day 1 is one of the worst things that can happen to the town. It's not as bad as lynching a power role on day 1, but it's worse then pretty much any other outcome. And I'm SURE you know this;
I think I was pretty transparent in my actions, as I admitted my vote was useless when I made it.I can't imagine an experenced player like you making such a bad play as pro-town as to delibratly and stealtily try to cause a no-lynch on day 1.
You've certainly given no actual reasons to suspect me... said the person who suspects me for not believing a fishy claim and wanting to avoid a townie lynch Day 1."It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill with rope and a slim majority."
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mikeburnfire Flashy
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So I take it that you are just gonna lash out?
Interesting."It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill with rope and a slim majority."
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mikeburnfire Flashy
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ok."It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill with rope and a slim majority."
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mikeburnfire Flashy
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Don't be so narrow minded, my dear Yosarian. Yes, scum can use a tracker claim to out a real tracker, but they can also use it to find a cop or force a doc's hand. If a player suddenly starts to suspect somebody who claimed tracker, then they could easily determine that that person is a cop. We can already see something similar happening here with Guardian and DBE.There's no logical reason a scum claiming tracker would cause a pro-town person to claim, unless it was a pro-town tracker.
Well, I didn't think a no-lynch was going to happen, but it is what I wanted.Uh...you never said, yesterday, that you were voting Coron because you wanted to cause a no-lynch.
I disagree, as did Guardian, Mac, and DBE.THERE WAS NOTHING FISHY ABOUT HIS CLAIM.
because I think you are scum, possibly with one of the claimed investigators (DBE).Now, are you going to explain why you're voting me"It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill with rope and a slim majority."
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mikeburnfire Flashy
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Guardian, it seemed to me that you were mad that DBE was leading you, but then you turned around and started leading her.
Yos wrote:Why would a cop react like that? There's no reason a tracker and a cop can't be in the same game.I present this line to you from Guardian:Tracker + Cop to me didn't make a whole lot of sense, and Coron's bullshit play made me decide to try and get him lynched.
Uh, yeah. There is. He would use his protection ability on him.And there's certanly no reason for a doc to react to a info role claim.
Near and DBE were the people on the block. At the time I didn't think Near was scum and DBE claimed to be an investigative role. I didn't want to lynch either of them. But it was too close in the deadline to try to speedlynch somebody else.Why? Why would you rather lynch no one instead of lynching, say, DBE, who you now think is scum? Or, you know, lynching someone else? Anyone else?
And I'm going to preemptively answer the question that you will undoubtedly ask: "Why didn't you suspect DBE's ambiguous claim as much as Coron's clear one?". It was not Coron's claim I was suspicious of, but the way he made it. DBE made her claim to prevent herself from being lynched at deadline. Coron allegedly made his to get two people to stop suspecting him even though he was in no danger of being lynched.
I will agree to this point if YOU agree that I shouldn't lynch somebody that I think is town.You do agree that day 1 no lynches are bad for the town, right?
You are ignoring the fact that enough people believed this logic to lynch Coron, crap or not.The reasons you GAVE for calling Coron scum ware pure and completly crap logic.
A little suspicion is healthy. The only people voting me are you and Guardian, and Guardian not only agree with my reasons, but played a big hand in speedlynching Coron.Which is part of the reason that, well, everyone is suspicious of you.
Yep. Either him or Guardian. I wouldn't be surprised if one of the two was lying scum and you were connected to 'em.Uh, DBE, you mean the person I was trying to lynch yesterday while you were lynching the tracker?"It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill with rope and a slim majority."
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mikeburnfire Flashy
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Okay, now you're just ignoring facts. Guardian just said that Coron's claim and play made him try to get him lynched. It's all there in black and white. What do you mean he "didn't do anything to tip his hand"? HE PUSHED THE SPEEDLYNCH.
But is still advantageous to the mafia.Well, yeah, but that dosn't give him away during the day.
Acknowledged.False. DBE had not yet claimed an investigative role, she just vaugly hinted that she had some kind of power role.
Yeah, and we see where it got us.And it was clearly not too close to the deadline to try to speedlynch someone else.
That's a broad generalization, but in this specific scenario, Yes.So, you'd rather lynch someone who look suspicious and then sort-of claims, rather then someone who dosn't look suspicious and then claims? That dosn't make sense
That was NOT what I asked. Should I, or should I not, lynch somebody that I think is town?I think that lynching a claimed townie is better then a no lynch,
And sometimes somebody protown is the one who spins that logic.So? Sometimes crap logic tricks the town into mislynching.
I think that, given the last two pages, my actions have...and I note you're still refusing to give any actual reasons to either suspect me of anything or link me to anyone.becomejustified."It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill with rope and a slim majority."
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I'm assuming this sentence was meant to be the other way around, yes?So, you'd rather lynch someone who look suspicious and then sort-of claims, rather then someone who dosn't look suspicious and then claims? That dosn't make sense."It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill with rope and a slim majority."
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I haven't made a case for lynching Yos yet, I've been busy defending myself from his flawed arguments. I'll probably get around to rereading and pulling things I found suspicious later."It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill with rope and a slim majority."
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I've already refuted/explained away most of these arguments, but let's do it again.
1. Are referring to refusal to lynch the two candidates I didn't feel were scummy?
2. I didn't buy his bullshit claim.
3. What reasons have I "changed"? The theory you mention was only one of the possibilities I considered.
4. This is the second time you've ignored my question.Should I, or should I not, lynch somebody that I think is town if the only alternative is no lynch?
5. No, YOU instantly blamed me and Guardian for Coron's death, and I defended myself.
6. Your arguments are shit and are reason enough for me to leave my vote on you.
7. Explain.
8. I'm expressing my suspicions as I have them.
Because Yos would never be the kind of person to distance, right?The fact alone that yos was pushing for a lynch on me yesterday should be proof enough we are not aligned."It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill with rope and a slim majority."
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1. My actions did contribute to the death of the tracker. So? Just because I'm wrong about somebody doesn't make me scum.
2. Yes, there was reason for me to believe the claim was bullshit. An investigative role outting himself day 1 so close to the deadline with no real justification is suspicious.
3. Explain
4. I disagree. You're arguing that I should have lynched Near because it was better than no lynch, but you have given me no reason why she is scum. Also,
I was trying to lynch Coron on Day 1 but nobody would join me. I was TRYING to get X lynched Day 1. What I did not want was a speedlynch on X. There is a difference.Don't you understand that no-lynching day 1 and then lynching person X day 2 is just worse for the town then lynching person X day 1?
5. If you're talking about my immediate vote today, I've already explained that I misunderstood what Guardian asked of DBE.
6. But they are shit, as I have been able to respond to each of your points, and the only thing you can do is repeat the same points again anyway.
7. I would like you to explain your previous statement "you keep shifting your justifaction about why you did what you did, and none of the reasons you give really make sense". I would like to know what you are referring to in this instance. If you cannot give me examples, then I would like you to stop accusing me of this.
8. Okay, I'll give a reason. I think you're attacking me unjustly. Yes, I heard Coron's claim of Tracker and thought it didn't make sense. I didn't know what his intentions could have been as scum, but his reasons he gave for doing it as town didn't make any sense. So I voted him. I voted him and VEHEMENTLY pushed for his lynch. But it didn't take.
Then deadline came. I could have voted for Near or DBE, who were close to lynch. But I got really good vibes from Near, and I wanted to give DBE some room after her claim. I put my vote on Coron, as I intended to keep pushing his lynch the next day. I did not intend to have him speedlynched. Now you are framing this as if it was all my fault and that it is 100% proof that I am scum.
Now, I want an answer to this:
That piece of crap logic, right there, is more then enough.
DBE said that you two could not be aligned because you pushed for her lynch. I explained that this is not any proof because mafia partners can distance themselves. You call craplogic. What about this is craplogic? Are you saying that you are incapable of distancing yourself?
Are you guys serious in believing all this from Yosarian? Which argument/s of his do you agree with, Mac and DBE? You can't just say
and vote me. I want to know why.
Dasquian, I admit that I didn't want to lynch somebody I thought was town and that I would have preferred to no lynch. Yosarian keeps arguing that it's okay to lynch somebody if you cannot confirm that they are a townie, just as long assomebodygets lynched. I disagree. If you still want to vote me for this reason, then so be it. If Near turns out to be town in endgame, I expect an apology from both of you."It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill with rope and a slim majority."
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Plain townie is more dispensable than a tracker, but not by much. And a townie who I think is townie is a worse lynch than a tracker who I think is scum.
And about his lynch being more useful? Bullshit. If he's town, then his lynch is harmful. Common sense. We can still get information from his bandwagon without killing him.
No lynch is not always an anti-town play, and given my other options I felt is was the best choice. I could have vote no lynch, but I chose not to. How are my messages mixed? I'm pretty simple on this. I wanted him lynched, but I didn't want him speedlynched while I was asleep.
DBE, you haven't given me much to respond to, so I really can't refute your vote."It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill with rope and a slim majority."
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Oh, and I'm at L-1 right now, just so I don't get stealth hammered."It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill with rope and a slim majority."
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I don't consider it suspicious and appreciate the much-needed breathing room."It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill with rope and a slim majority."
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1. Coron was suspicious and I pushed for his lynch. He came up Tracker, so suspicions on me are expected. But I am not scum, and you do not have any proof that I am. You are closing your eyes to the possibility that I am town and do not acknowledge that I am refuting lots of your arguments.
2. How many times to I have to repeat myself? Coron claimed at a strange time trying to sequester doc protection right before the deadline and his reason for doing so was weak.
3 and 7. I'll admit that I wasn't sure what Coron was trying to do, just that I thought it was scummy and that I saw no pro-town reasons for his actions.
Yesterday, the only real reason you gave was the illogical "Coron claimed in order to prevent Near from being lynched". Today, you first changed that to "Coron might claimed to draw doc protection", then when that didn't fly, you changed it to "Coron might have claimed in order to fish for the cop".
I call bullshit. I said the doc protection thing immediately after Coron claimed.What does claiming NOW benefit the town? You have no information for us. You are forcing the doctor, should we have one, to make a difficult choice between believing you and deciding if you are worth the protection.
4. Uh, yeah. I did.Too many people want to lynch Near, IMO. Perhaps there's a good reason for it that I didn't pick up, being the replacement and all, but I think it's too strongly pushed, and a lot of people are just saying "Near is scum and I won't pursue anyone else until he's lynched".
5.I can't think of any reason why a speedlynch on X day 1 is WORSE then a no-lynch day 1 followed by a continued attack on X day to.
Then you are a fool. We get almost no information from a speedlynch and a continued attack the following day can lead to even more information, plus people can change their suspicions.
6. I am explaining myself in a rational way, but go ahead and keep pretending I'm not. For example, I suggested that ScumCoron could have claimed Tracker to out a cop. You said that there is no reason to believe a cop would react to a tracker claim. I pull a quote from Guardian, our claimed cop, doing this exact thing. You just shrug it off and pretend that you're still right.
8. While I don't have any evidence that you and DBE are linked, it doesn't mean you can't. And Near is relevant to the issue at hand, because you're criticizing me for not lynching her, even though you think she is town. Scum."It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill with rope and a slim majority."
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I am voting Yos because I feel he is scum. If you think it's OMGUS, then fine. It's OMGUS. But how does that make me scum?
That's because I DIDNT suspect him prior to claim. And I did keep pushing for his lynch strongly, because I wanted more pressure on Coron because I did not believe his claim, eventually lynching him if I couldn't get a sufficient explanation.2. is fairly sensible - I didn't see anything from you suspecting Coron prior to the claim. We all agree that the claim was bad, but I wouldn't lynch someone purely for claiming at a bad time. I've already pointed out my other reasons multiple times, so not going to bother doing it again here.
OK, I guess you mentioned the doc thing yesterday too, but you've still had some shifting of reasons.
You and Yosarian are very alike. You both like to attack me for "shifting reasons" but come up with no evidence of the sort.
Two reasons. First, I was still trying to make sense of Coron's actions, and him attempting to disrupt the Near lynch was the best I could think of at the time. Second, for awhile I bought into that whole "lynching a claimed townie is better than no lynch". But then I realized that such line of thinking is stupid.Why did you push Near's wagon for a while yesterday and then hop off it if you thought he was town the whole time?"It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill with rope and a slim majority."
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I didn't want to lynch either of the main candidates, and proclaimed that my vote would be only a protest vote. I didn't say I wanted "no lynch" at the time because I figured that one of Near or DBE was going to be lynched anyway.
I don't recall ever saying that it was what I thought he was doing, just something that he could have done. And you're right- I didn't think of this reason until Day 2.But the more significant "shifting reason" is how you are now suddenly claiming that you had thought Coron claimed tracker just to try and out a cop; it dosn't really make any sense as a scum tactic, since it's certanly possible for there to be both a cop and a tracker, but more importantly, you never mentioned that yesterday and I strongly suspect that you only thought of it after Guardian claimed.
Perhaps so, but if Near is a townie and my unvoting her saved her (hypothetical here) then the town would have one more pro-town person still alive the next day. And I disagree when you say that without lynches the town cannot get any new information. It reminds me of a game that I played with only 5 players-- where I nailed the two scum Day 1 just because I watched how people voted and bandwagoned one player.Failing to lynch on day 1 is really bad for the town. Most likely the scum just get a free kill, probably someone who wasn't under suspicion at all, and the town, after spending weeks trying to lynch and failing, finds themselves back in the exact same position with the exact same suspects, and no more information then they had the day before. It's just not a good situation.
On lynches that get built up I can see why people vote, how hesitant they are to vote, how eager they are to vote, and how they might try to subtly sabotage the lynch. On deadline speedlynches where people just go "ShitDeadlineHurryLynchLynchLynch" all of this information is gone.How could the town get LESS information from a speed-lynch then a no-lynch?
I'll give you that, but a speedlynch that leads to a dead townie gives nothing useful.A speedlynch that leads to a dead scum gives the town a huge amount of information.
We could have gotten most, if not all of this information, without killing Coron. And then we'd have his tracker result too.Bad as the Coron lynch was, illogical as it was, I think it gave us a lot of information; information about you, information about who voted on it and who didn't, I think that Near's reluctance to join it gave us really key information about him, and of course information about Coron's alignment.
Yes, thank god that speedlynch happened. Otherwise we would have had a dead townie! Oh wait, we do have one of those. And a dead tracker to boot. If we had more time to discuss everything (EG another day), I might have eventually been convinced that Coron wasn't scum and we wouldn't have a dead investigator.If there'd been a no-lynch, some random pro-town player would have died that night, and the next day you would have still been attacking Coron, I still would have been arguing against you, other people still would have been attacking Near, ect. A no-lynch means that you're basically in the same boat you were in before, except with one less townie; it's demoralising and destructive.
Anyway, I'm getting tired of having my vote on Yosarian called "OMGUS", but I've been thinking about this game all night while I was at work, and I realized that it's not just Yosarian. I've forcefully (and sometimes unfairly) attacked Coron and Guardian-- all three of which are people that I recognized as having played with them before. That's when I realized that I'm just really super-suspicious of experienced players. I guess because I hate the idea of somebody outsmarting me. So, I apologize. I've been playing with more paranoia than logic for most of the game.
I acknowledge that I've been very suspicious for my role in Coron's lynch, but I feel I've defended myself thoroughly through my explanations. I still say that Coron's claim made no sense and that he deserved more pressure than he got, but I did overdo it. And I still say that I would have preferred a no-lynch to a person I thought was a townie. I won't apologize for that, nor do I agree with Yosarian's assertion that speedlynches are good for the town.
I'm going to have a busy weekend, so I may not be around as much, but hopefully I'll be able to come back and play better.
unvote Yosarian, because not only was my initial voting of him unwarranted, but because I don't want you fools to speedlynch him while I'm gone, find out he's town, and blame me. Again."It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill with rope and a slim majority."
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mikeburnfire Flashy
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I can hold onto this assertion easily. See my above hypothetical scenario.
The town gets its information from bandwagons, investigations, accusations, revelations, and lynches. We don't NEED lynches to get information, there are plenty of other ways during the day.
Yes, I think we should lynch today. I thought we should lynch yesterday too, but my options were limited. I don't think no-lynching is optimal play, but to me, it is better than lynching somebody I think is town. I doubt anybody will be able to change my mind on this."It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill with rope and a slim majority."
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mikeburnfire Flashy
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What?"It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill with rope and a slim majority."
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mikeburnfire Flashy
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I wasn't suspicious of Dasquian because I didn't consider him as experienced. No offense intended, but I can't recall ever playing a game with him.
As for your question about "no lynch champion", I can't answer it. All I can do is repeat what I believe: that no-lynching, while sub-optimal play, is still better than lynching somebody I think is town."It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill with rope and a slim majority."
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mikeburnfire Flashy
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No, I don't think I can. I'm sure there are instances where I've refused to participate in a deadline lynch just for the sake of lynching, but I don't remember any recent examples.you cant point us to places where you've espoused this view in the past?
Heh. Didn't notice that until you said it. I haven't seen Dasquian post around the site much. Maybe he's just low-key.dasq's join date is earlier than yours... you didn't 'consider him experienced'..?
but I am? o.O
Yosarian makes a good point, and I acknowledge that there is information to be found from speedlynches. But given how easy it is for a scum contribute to a speedlynch, lynch a townie, then shrug off his sudden vote as "just trying to avoid no-lynch", and how it prevents some players from being involved, and how a townie is more likely to be speedlynched, I still stand firmly against them.
We would still have a lot of information, and the tracker information, which could have been used to confirm Guardian or some other pro-town role. Or to catch a mafia red-handed. Or to catch a lying mafia who claims a power role. Tracker is a more useful role than I gave credit yesterday.If we didn't know Coron's alignment now, the lynch wouldn't be nearly as informative, in my opinion."It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill with rope and a slim majority."
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Back to L-1..."It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill with rope and a slim majority."
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Before I go (just in case I get lynched), I'll try to leave the sane townies my suspicions:
Yosarian2 - While I think he is pushing for my lynch too strongly, it is not truly indicative of him being scum. In fact, the way Yosarian has really been intensely attacking me, even when I provide cohesive defenses, is not something I would expect the typical scum to do, which would be hit-and-run poking around. Then again, Yosarian isn't typical.
Dasquian - I get good vibes from him, but I see no evidence in regards to whether or not he is scum.
Guardian - If he is scum, he's the ballsiest scum I've seen in a long time. Pushing the Coron lynch and claiming to be a cop with a dead tracker are not smart plays if he was scum. I believe he is town.
DarlaBlueEyes - Part of me believes that the Watcher claim is something that her and her scumpartners could have decided would be the best to claim during the night. But she could also be legit. I don't have many good vibes, but would not bet one way or the other.
Joudas - Be wary. He hasn't been very active for most of day 2, and I feel he is lying low because there are two pro-town forces strongly clashing.
Macavenger - I couldn't see what everybody was suspicious of at first, but there are signs. He didn't want to be the decider in who would be lynched, and scum don't usually want to be linked to a dead townsperson. Also, he's been on every bandwagon so far, from Near to Coron to me, which indicates opportunism.
Near - Town, almost definitely, or the best scum actor ever.
PyroDwarf - not much of a read here. Pushed Guardian, got off when he claimed. That's about it. Guardian was never a serious candidate, and Pyro has never expressed his interest in being a part of the big-name lynches. He definitely deserves more attention.
Singing Librarian - similar to Pyro Dwarf. He gunned for Near's lynch, then Guardians, then unvoted when he claimed. Now has hopped on my wagon.
Overall, I have lots of suspects but nothing really solid, unfortunately. Most, if not all, of the activity today was just Yosarian pushing for my lynch and me defending myself, which is very unhelpful in the long run. Yos2, Macavenger, Dasquian, DBE, and Librarian are on my wagon. There may or may not be scum on this wagon, as it would be easy to just piggyback on Yos's logic for a free lynch, but perhaps even easier to just let the townspeople do it themselves.
Even though I am at L-1, I don't plan on claiming at the current time. I feel that I've defended myself against most points against me, and regardless of whether or not you think I am scum, it would be absolute foolishness to lynch me now and not make use of the rest of the day."It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill with rope and a slim majority."
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