Mini #597 - Swift speed: Werewolves (Game over)

[Jenter Brolincani]

Ok, theory discussion.

I agree with SG about proper wagons - we can't afford scumrushes close to dealine... we have only really 3 days (considering we want to stay clear of deadline) to get today done - not long at all, we can't afford to mess around or get stuck in random voting.

I reserve my vote until more people post.

[Jenter Brolincani]

Gosh, sorry I was out most of yesterday.

Clammy's play is textbook scumbuddying, and he's not clever enough to get away with it either... Korts I think could still easily be town, but clammy is really, really bad...

Other points;
- Changes his argument form 'stopping Korts being lynched' to, when pressured, 'I'm far happier with my vote on Phoebus'.
- Keeps saying the case against him is OMGUS without any mention of the points in it.

vote clammy

[Jenter Brolincani]

Stop strawmanning clammy, it does your case no good.

I agree a quicklynch is not in order, but at -3 I'm not planning to move my vote.

[Jenter Brolincani]

Clammy, you have not even touched on your buddying of Korts once in your defence apart from sarcastically taking the piss out of it, blatantly ignoring the main point of the case against you.

Vote count

(12 players alive = 7 to lynch before deadline)
(4) clammy – Shy Guy, SleepyPanda, Korts, Jenter Brolincani
(1) Phoebus – clammy
(1) Korts – Phoebus
(1) Killa Seven – donkeyz12212
(1) Jenter Brolincani – Mr. Blonde

(1) No Lynch – W!nt3r

Not voting:

killa seven, Xanatos Roulette, Chaosweaver

Deadline:

Tuesday 20 May 11:40 PM (GMT -5 according to forum clock)

[Jenter Brolincani]

Blonde;

From;

unvote; vote: Phoebus
- Mostly to make sure korts isn't quick-lynched.

To;

I do realise that both had 2 votes, i am far happier being on the wagon of Phoebus at this stage.

Which in itself nullifies his orignal argument without replacing it with anything discernable. Change of argument. The buddying of Korts included in this is a textbook n00b scum move, hence my comment.

Enough for you?

However, I find Phoebus' attack on Donkey worryingly daft, for the reasons given by Shy Guy. Scum will want to hold everyone to deadline to give themselves the maximum chance of getting a night action in. They won't want the day ended early.

vote phoebus

You attack donkey and Korts, but fail to mention anyone else on the wagon, notably M.B. who advocated a fast lynch just before Donkey did one.

Vote count

(11 players alive = 6 to lynch before deadline)
(2) Phoebus – Shy Guy, Jenter Brolincani
(1) donkeyz12212 – Phoebus
(1) Jenter Brolincani – Mr. Blonde

Not voting:

donkeyz12212, Grimmy, killa seven, Korts, SleepyPanda, water_foul, Xanatos Roulette

Deadline:

Thursday 22 May 6:00 PM (GMT -5 according to forum clock)

[Jenter Brolincani]

Ok, so I've been attakced by 2 people, one had 'something he couldn't put his finger on' - in other words, **** all, and the other was pretty blatant OMGUS - definitely keeping my vote steady at least until we get why my reasons seem 'off' or 'opportunistic'.

[Jenter Brolincani]

Damn, I was, as my sig says, away last night.

OK, killa seven looks rather bad by my book...

PbPa backwards;

i let mr blondes posts influence my vote, i should hammered grimmey like i planned prior. mr blonde made alot of sense tho i wont lie.
and i didnt post a reasoning because it was 2 am and i was on my cell internet and tryna make the deadline for votes.

Right. Fine. So... what WAS your reasoning? We'd sort of like to know, you know. Notably this shifts blame onto the now dead Mr Blonde...

-------------------------- Day Two Ends

vote phoebus

It's the vote, nothing to say as nothing is said, part form THAT nothing is said.

im not lurking im just busy, 12 hour shift today.
im liking a clammy lynch more then phoebus atm.

Clammy was lynched day one... read the frickin' thread. I assume you mean Grimmy, although you post no reasons why.

i find it funny phoebus has let up on korts today after heavily attacking him yesterday.

And going back a bit, an attack on phoebus, contrary to the above.

im here. will re read real fast

And we've seen

so

much evidence of that...

------------------------- Day One Ends

wow this game is moving fast.. the korts wagon is dumb,ive seen him act like this in random stage and turn up town after a bw formed from random stage.

Ok, a slight protectying of Korts on a meta tell, not much to say here.

------------------------ Game Starts


Ok, lurks d1, faffs about a bit d2 and spreads suspicion before helping lynch a townie, then blames it on the innocent dead guy. Nicht Gut.

I'll

vote; killa seven

[Jenter Brolincani]

woops, didn't vote right.

vote killa seven

[Jenter Brolincani]

Also, killa, if you are a townie who just can't be asked, get yourself replaced.

[Jenter Brolincani]

I never thought you were clammy's partner becuase as far as I could make out the linking of you and clammy was him linking to you, it was one-way, he was making a scummy move and you were not.

As for Shy Guy, I hardly think agreeing with someone counts as buddying - I haven't defended him, just said his points make sense...

I answered Mr Blonde's points when he posted them, and her replied as follows;

Okay, I realize that we both were meaning the same thing, and I got stuck in the word "change". This is fine.

and unvoted me. He found my counter argument was fine and did not press me any further, so you can't really say he was suspicious of me close to his death.

More to come...

[Jenter Brolincani]

lol, simulpost.

[Jenter Brolincani]

I have pushed for people's lynches and I have given evidence when I have voted. I may not have been aggressive enough previously, but I think my case on Killa Seven is good.

[Jenter Brolincani]

Ok, thanks. I don't normally have time to meta people in games, so I hadn't seen that...

The trouble is, if he acts this way whatever, how are we to know if he's town or scum? I'll keep my vote on for now, if only to see if we can't get him to leave or play properly.

Korts, what do you think of my counter-argumetns to your case?

[Jenter Brolincani]

Ho hum, good post with good points.

I want to see Shy Guy reply before I consider changing my vote though.

[Jenter Brolincani]

People need to decide on votes now, we really don't want to have to get a randomised lynch.

[Jenter Brolincani]

Actually, considering the deadline

unvote, vote Shy Guy

since SG might not post before deadline anyway and it is indeed a good case.

[Jenter Brolincani]

Korts; Yes, I wrote that before you voted, then posted it later beofre I saw you had posted. Before that, it would ave been random between SG, myself, Killa and No Lynch.

[Jenter Brolincani]

SG is as far as I can tell only bombarding me because I am second most suspicious.

SG, if you were town, I don't think you would hve exposed water_foul to save your own hide without asking him first. I don't buy the claim, and won't unless water_foul backs it up. I am sorry if you are town, but saving your own hide by throwing another townie, quite literally, to the wolves, is anti-town play.

New points as well, it's amazing how people crack under pressure;

It makes sense to have more suspects than there are scum. I don't know for a fact who the scum are... obviously. Throwing a wide net and seeing how people respond is good scum-hunting, not suspicious activity.

Spreading suspicion is scummy.

Yes. No, I'm not, it would be amazingly incompetent of you to think I am saying that. What I AM saying is that it is FAR MORE LIKELY that the scum missed sending in a kill. Based on the speed of the lynch, I think the scum were caught unawares, something FAR MORE LIKELY than a doctor guessing which person the mafia decided to target.

Eh? You actually think scum would have been that dumb? Relying on the incompetence of your adversaries with no evidence of such is no way to make a case.

Grimmy was only more suspicious than Phoebus. Comparatively, he was not that suspicious, just more suspicious than Phoebus.

So why the hell did you vote him in the first place, if not to spread suspicion around a bit more?

Korts, if he and w_f are scum, of course they will help each other out - with our tracker gone we don't know if there's a cop to check, so we HAVE to find a way of confirming by death. I should not be having to answer to a case from SG which simply consists, as far as I can see, of 'He voted SG, SG is telling us he's a power role but we have no real way of confirming this. LYNCHES!!11!'. Please, if you have any more serious points to register aganst me, you have 1 1/2 hours. Don't lynch me by default; have a reason for a mislynch.

My vote stays.

[Jenter Brolincani]

No, he's saying that the role he has claimed had no more founding than claiming vanilla.

[Jenter Brolincani]

I thought of that, but scum with any brains would just change the NK and NK someone else, then push the two of them being a scumteam the next day.

I agree a reread of SP is in order, I'll have a look later.

[Jenter Brolincani]

Korts, you make a lot of sense. One point I have to add;

- When I am scum and sending in a NK, I always log out and log in on the setting that takes me off the active users list. Assuming I am not the only one to have worked out that this plays havoc with that particular tell, it could have been more people than you think.

vote SleepyPanda

I guess though, Kort's case looks good enough to satisfy me... particulalrly noting that Sleepy decided Korts and I were scum - the only other 2 to have been, as Korts said, known to have been around at the time the NK was probably sent.

[Jenter Brolincani]

Check preferences, it's called 'hide your online status'.

[Jenter Brolincani]

unvote

I'll trust you thus far, Korts.

Sleepy, that last post is, as you yourself basically admitted, a Welcome to WIFOMLAND sign.

And, um, yes, you would have stuck your neck out. In a 12 player game such as this, with only 1 NK/night maximum so far so prob. only 1 scum team, any less than 3 scum would generally be unbalanced unless they have some helluva awesome power role that will kick our asses nice and squarely.

So it's fine for you to get us into LyLo, as you would still have at least 2 buddies in the clear - at 4 to lynch, that should be, assuming at least one had few to no scumtells to their name, easily enough to get the required mislynch.

And claiming Korts and I have been somehow shady or lurking and opportunistically hopping is pure BS. I made a major PbPa attack against Killa yesterday, Korts has been one of the most forward going and active players throughout the entire game.

Intent To Vote; SleepyPanda

(I did the whole phrase since I don't think it's used much on MScum).

[Jenter Brolincani]

Sleepy; the quickvote was because I felt you were the person who most needed to be pressured at the day start.

I particularly want to know what Korts thinks of Grimmy, and what Grimmy thinks of, well, just about anyone...

I'll read over Grimmy today though.

[Jenter Brolincani]

Donkey, what are your thoughts on SleepyPanda?

[Jenter Brolincani]

Scum only need to kill one more person for the win.

How do you know? Town don't know how many scum there are...

[Jenter Brolincani]

Scum only need to kill one more person for the win.

How do you know? Town don't know how many scum there are...

Sorry, that first bit shoulda bin quoted.

[Jenter Brolincani]

Vote korts

and lynch.

[Jenter Brolincani]

O

W

N

E

D

[Jenter Brolincani]

It was us being able to talk at day, due to the lack of a night, that sealed this one. We could co-ordinate lynches and accusations together.

In fact, we were doing so well that donkey and I were one of the leat likely looking pairs ingame.

[Jenter Brolincani]

Commiserations though, you all played well, just against the wrong guys.

[Jenter Brolincani]

Add 1 more member to the secret society, that will balance out the commmunication issue by allowing town to co-ordinate as well as scum.

I play better as scum than town... I was v. pleased with myself for getting SG out the way, then co-ordinating the double hammer was pure deadliness.

[Jenter Brolincani]

lol, lost due to alcohol.