Open 78: Friends & Enemies (Over) - before 608

[muffinhead]

Hi all, couldnt resist not joining. Once again im replacing korts under the same excuss, only this time with a couple more votes on me. Some people ive played wth others im meeting for the first time.

I dont really want to focus on whats already happened however i will have a re-read by tomorrow.

[muffinhead]

thx very much.

Ok so far ive been looking for people who have acted uncharacteristic and only noticed surye was in this game after that post. This seems very odd cosidering I have been watching another game with him in it where he was posting 5 times per day. In that game he was townie (mayor).


Grimmy has done the exact opposite. In another game i was with him he posted once every 2 pages and it was very brief. The first thing i notcied when he posted was this

QuitcherBitchin of Suspicion: Rishi

for complaining about posting about other games.

Chesspeice of suspicion: IcemanE

this game had more peices when it was lent to you!!!

WTF of suspicion: Korts and Surye

because I have no idea of what you are talking about

"A kick to myself because I should have lynched him in another game" of suspicion: Celebloki

I missed my chance...Grrrr...

Bad Pun of suspicion: Roflcopter

Dirty pool old man!!!

Chuckle of suspicion: Grimmy

for getting carried away with the suspicions.

Grimmy
doesnt trust anyone!!!

Anyways I was shoocked to see the word pissy come out of rishi considering I didnt hear a curse in 25 pages in another game where he ended pro-town. Then I saw this temper outburst which is totally unlike rishi.

WTF?

You really think I'm worse than Mr. Blonde, Celebloki or Surye in terms of lack of contribution?

Are you even reading the thread? Maybe you should post less and actually pay attention.

Farside currently has the most votes. I have played with him more then anyone as he seems to be in everything. I havnt seen anything really scummy from him. So someone can explain the case against him.

At this stage icemane seems protown as he may not neceesarily make the best points but hes acting the same and posting alot. I also believe pokerface is protown as he seems to make good points and huge posts which I personally wouldnt do if i was scum since it would be a waste of time.

Ok i had more to say but Im being kicked off the computer so will ccontinue later

Last question for killer, surye and blond, who are youre biggest suspects and why.

[muffinhead]

Ok still havnt had an answer from blond or surye even though both have posted.

Now on the lurker case I personally have had a good record with lurkers as everyone of them ive lynched so far has been scum. But i think we should worry about that in the later days. Mrblond I cant really judge since ive never played but surye I know is a very common poster in big lots and for him to say he doesnt have enough time certainly seems odd.

Now this is what i was going to talk about yesterday

NEWS FLASH!

tek is so scum with farside

DAMN, YOU CAUGHT US.

Now what is the point in saying that. There are only 3 reasons that I can imagine for doing this

1- hes town using really unecessary sarcasm
2- he is scum making farside look sus so his partner stays alive
3- he is scum thinking he has lost.

Now I doubt reason 1 and really doubt reason 3 leaving him as scum. I would be really intrested to see tek explain this post.

Ok will be back soon to talk about whats happened in recent times, feel free to ask me any questions you like.

[muffinhead]

Okay, here's some points that caught my attention:

post 75:

dcorbe - 3 (Mr. Blonde, Rishi, farside22)

post 76, roflcopter:

dcorbe wagon is being ridden by scum, methinks

unvote, vote: farside

Quite odd statement from rofl this soon.

---

post 117, grimmy:

its seven to lynch.

farside has four votes so far.

My vote is safe, even if the deadline hits, because the four votes put her over the top in case of a deadline.

Vote: Farside

bit odd defendsive move from grimmy

---

post 120, roflcopter:

still think the dcorbe case is a real reach. farside wagon is good.

uhh... way too early to tell, yet roflcopter seems sure about this.

---

post 121, dcorbe:

At this point I'm inclined to agree. Plus it's time to start turning up some pressure on people.

So.

Unvote
Vote: farside22

(earlier he was fossing both Korts & Grimmy... why switch to farside?)

Then, post 127:

The thread deserves a reread by the mod. Technically it looks like she was already hammered.

I voted (Lynch), then pokerface unvoted to put her at L-1

I thought she was at L-2, actually that's why I didn't remove my vote.

@Mod?

See how eager dcorbe is to lynch farside?

---

post 129, korts:

unvote

I'd take a look at rofl. I think that was a pretty convincing claim. What makes you so sure farside still should be today's lynch?

I didn't see a convincing claim... but I think it's a good point though.


---

post 154, icemanE:

So far, the reaction seems to be pretty similar to when Grimmy didn't have an avatar. Then this happens:

Mr Blonde (60) wrote:

Unvote
Vote: dcorbe
for not voting anybody

...and the bandwagon begins.

Rishi (65) wrote:

Actually, I play in a lot of newbie games as an IC. I'd say that 90% of them will get an avatar if asked.

Unvote, Vote: dcorbe


Farside (68) wrote:

Someone needs to join a newbie game me thinks.
unvote:
vote: dcorbe

Those two votes seem incredibly opportunistic to me.

I agree - that's why I suspect farside.

---

Korts (177), makes post by post analysis (something I've never seen him doing).

---

farside (188), wrote:

On to those I find townie:
Rishi
Poker
Rofl
Iceman
And no I'm not explaining my list. I am not giving scum an advantage,...

unvote
vote Korts

I don't really understand what "advantage" scum gets from this... only makes townies confused.

icemanE (199)

Yeah, farside is still the best candidate, but being the best candidate (i.e., the most scummy) doesn't mean we've got to kill her right now - there are still going to be at least 3 scum going on into day 2, and if we're fairly sure farside is scum on day one, it makes sense to look into others, since we've got the time. I want to check everyone out before we kill someone - just because you've got a scum doesn't mean you have to kill it right then and there.

Doesn't make sense to kill it right away? We don't really know if somebody is a scum unless we lynch them. Find this statement quite odd. Not necessarily scummy, but still...

----

(and at this point there was misquoted stuff... and problems with quotes)

---

dcorbe, post 230:

You're making it sound as if I'm the one who put her at L-1.

Why is he worried about that?

---

roflcopter (259)

1)trying to undermine the farside lynch

2)unfounded dcorbe hate, based not even on what he's done in this game but on what you perceive to be some kind of difference in his playstyle versus another game you've seen him in. please observe open game 69 (just recently concluded) and see dcorbe being just as unpleasant as he is in this game, as a townie.

tekk wrote:
Also, I sincerely doubt that dcorbe would have called me out if my post had been directed at anyone else.

bigger fos: tekkactus

So what if he undermines the farside lynch? It's day 1, we don't know if farside is a scum.

---

dcorbe (281):

actually, on second thought..

I can't picture anyone hammering farside any time soon, so...

Unvote
Vote: icemanE

To me... dcorbe looks like he wants to lynch anybody than himself.

dcorbe gets frustrated with icemanE (285)

Doing any actual scum hunting doesn't seem to be a priority for you either. You'd rather just sit around, argue with me over stupid shit until any point either of us have made is LONG gone and bitch about my play style. Well I'm tired of walking on egg shells around you.

I think icemanE has been playing quite pro-town in this game.

dcorbe (332)

He's [Tekkacus] obviously paying attention to the thread, because he's quoting current events. He makes reference to the argument between icemanE and myself and the fact that Korts was recently replaced.

Overall he's being dodgy, evasive and he's actively lurking.

I would like to see a wagon get going so we can get some more useful information instead of going off into our own individual tangents about who we think is scum and who isn't

If what I've outlined is not a reason to at least wagon someone, I don't know what is. Hopefully if he gets wagoned a bit he'll wake up, participate a little more in this game, let us know why he's not a good target and also let us know who we should be focused on.

Unvote
Vote: Tekkactus

To me... it really starts to look like dcorbe wants to lynch anybody than himself. The fact that he pointed "as if you're playing to stay alive.." might tell what *he* is actually doing.

I remember being a scum, and accidentally once blurted out something similar about "what scums could do" (and was doing the same thing). I find this suspicious.

I find dcorbe's voting patterns & guesswork-reasons suspicious.

---

Could somebody remind me about the reason why Korts/muffinhead is being voted? I didn't catch those...

---

I still think farside's early opportunistic vote on dcorbe seemed suspicious (68).

dcorbe and roflcopter I feel to be scummy. grimmy made odd defensive comment which is quite scummy as well.

iceman still feels most pro-town to me, I think he tries to make effort to put analysis help town.

Nice post blond. I agree that decorb seems desperate to lynch however I still dont understand ur suspcison on rofl as I dont see how his comments make him scummy.

Currently im pretty sure that icemane and poker are town and I reckon tek and surye are scum. I would like to hear an explination from tek before i vote him and surye looks like a totally different person. Therefore

vote surye

[muffinhead]

Okay, then. My point is that I was trying to get you into contributing more, not get you lynched. Lurking is bad for the game. If you're town, you need to help find scum. If you're scum, you need to contribute so that we can find your scumbuddy after your death.

I'll keep the vote on until you post something substantive. But, I'll probably remove it shortly thereafter. I'm not really getting a huge scumvibe from you at this point, to be honest.

Ok i still dont understand why you have told him this when he still is yet to contribut anything to the game. Also if he is scum then you are discouraging him to talk which doesnt make sense. I am voting on him because I would least suspect him to lurk out of anyone escpically if he is a townie. The fact he has contributed nothing makes me think he could be scum. I would like to see him asking questions, explain his oponions etc.

[muffinhead]

@Blonde and Muffinhead:

You're confusing an eagerness to wagon with an eagerness to lynch. Wagoning people is a good tool to get information out of D1, and it's in my opinion the only way to make D1 productive. I was supportive of a farside lynch; however, in lieu of that happening (which it doesn't seem as if it is going to at this point) I'd like to get another wagon going in order to get someone to drop some real scum tells instead of all this circumstantial crap that everyone is clinging to.

I don't think there's enough evidence to support a lynch on anyone else right now but that shouldn't stop us from wagoning someone, even if the reason they're being wagoned is weak.

@Blonde: All you're doing is posting large PBPAs to look busy. PBPAs on D1 really don't mean much and I wish you would stop. Your refusal to commit to any one case makes you look suspicious. It seems like you would rather throw doubt and suspicion around rather than do any real scum hunting.

It's mighty difficult to draw conclusions on D1 of who is connected to who and for what reasons. These relationships tend to become clearer once the results of successful wagons can be examined.

FoS Mr. Blonde

@dcorbe- I know what ur trying to do by badonwaging to try get some more information, however you dont go out there and say "lets badonwagon this person". This is because the person now knows its not to be lynched and therefore wont reveal anything or reveal a minimal amount of information.

Its this that seems odd

I like where this is going again.

Unvote

Vote: farside22

Now I personally dont understand the farside wagon so can you explain ur vote please?

unvote - vote: farside

since she's still on top of the list. I still feel she is the safest bet, as I explained earlier in the game. I also liked your reaction enough that I feel justified in removing my vote for the moment.

The same applies for icemane. How is she the safest person to lynch? I cant find where you said that and dont have time for a proper look.

Just a reminder that anyone can explain to me the why farside is scummy, if not then there is no chance i will join in.

Now what is the point in saying that. There are only 3 reasons that I can imagine for doing this

1- hes town using really unecessary sarcasm
2- he is scum making farside look sus so his partner stays alive
3- he is scum thinking he has lost.

Now I doubt reason 1 and really doubt reason 3 leaving him as scum. I would be really intrested to see tek explain this post.

I know what a stretch it is for someone to be sarcastic in

a game being played on the internet

. I was unaware this was such serious business, I'll try not to smile from now on. :rolleyes:

Overall he's being dodgy, evasive and he's actively lurking.

Dodgy and evasive were both pulled out of your ass and don't apply at all. I've answered every question directed at me quickly and clearly, and if you can find an example of one that I might have missed, I apologize for not seeing it originally and I'll answer it.

I would like to see a wagon get going so we can get some more useful information instead of going off into our own individual tangents about who we think is scum and who isn't

"I don't think we should vote on individual tangents. Therefor, I'm going to vote on my individual tangent." Way to go, D. Quality reasoning.

@IcemanE: Last I knew I was #3. When and why did I go up?

Well yes of course u can be sarcastic and have fun, that is the aim of the game besides winning. However the timing was terrible in that post because
a- if you were not being sarcastic then you are scum
b- I get no real indication telling me you were being sarcastic.

Also you dont have to apologise in this game. I personally learnt that early on that instead of apologising you have to go out there and prove urself.

[muffinhead]

haha. Ok then tek just wondering who do you think is most likly to be scum so far in the game since you havnt got a vote on anyone?

[muffinhead]

Ok once again ive had a look over the game escpically the farside wagon which started from this comment below

Not having an avatar is a scum tell now?

I guess all the newbies here are in bad shape then!

@Mr. Blonde: curious why me not voting deserves scrutiny.

Someone needs to join a newbie game me thinks.

unvote:
vote: dcorbe

Now I understand how this caused a wagon due to the fact that farsides vote was based on the fact he doesnt doesnt have an aviatar which has nothing to do with this game.

then people decide they vote him for a wagon

dcorbe wagon is being ridden by scum, methinks

As such,

unvote, vote: farside

.

Oh well... let's put some bandwagon moving:

unvote
vote farside22

its seven to lynch.

farside has four votes so far.

My vote is safe, even if the deadline hits, because the four votes put her over the top in case of a deadline.

Vote: Farside

Grimmy
see ya monday

Now surly we cant lynch farside based on that one scummy post. Yet i see posts like this

thats pretty fatalistic. i still think farside's the right play.

@rofl- do you want farside lynched based on that one post? If not then plz explain.

Ok this next quote really drew my atention.

Well at L-1 all I have is my claim as town. At least lynching me no power roles are revealed, which gives the scum nothing but guessing for the night.
I don't think I'm reaching. Please look at those who were on my wagon. I don't think my vote against dcorbe is wrong. I say look at him tomorrow.

I'd like you to do a better job of explaining why you're so convinced that I'm scummy based on meta conversation which everyone pretty much agrees has no relevance to the game.

If you are town and for the sake of your team mates, please either quote posts, talk about some of my actions.. something.. *anything* that could be useful to us at all. Either that or back off until you have a better case.

A lynch this early on D1 is more likely to have a bad result rather than a good one.

Votecount as of post 125

farside22 - 6 (Roflcopter, IcemanE, Mr. Blonde, Korts, Grimmy, dcorbe)
Rishi - 1 (Tekkactus)
dcorbe - 1 (farside22)
Grimmy - 1 (Celebloki)

Not Voting - 3 (Pokerface, Surye, Rishi)

7 to lynch

dcorbe - What's suspicious about this post is that you recommend we not lynch this early and yet you don't withdraw your vote, which would take farside off of L-1.

The thread deserves a reread by the mod. Technically it looks like she was already hammered.

I voted (Lynch), then pokerface unvoted to put her at L-1

I thought she was at L-2, actually that's why I didn't remove my vote.

@Mod?

Now dcorbe comments that its to early to lynch however he then points out that farside should be lynched already with 7 votes. This gives me the impression that dcorbe is trying to hide the fact that he really wants farside lynch which is a scummy thing to do. Therefore

fos dcorbe

[muffinhead]

@ Muffin - You have set up a strawman with the way you frame the above quotes. You turn everyone's reason for voting farside into "she had one scummy post". That is inaccurate and is not representative of the way that part of the game unfolded. There were three seperate reasons provided for the votes. Blonde's was the closest to what you give as a reason, but it is still inaccurate, as Blonde states that he was voting her for the purpose of bandwagoning. Bandwagoning and lynching are two seperate things. Grouping all three players votes into one category and giving a single reason for it is a clever way of subtly pinning suspicion on players without actually having to come out and say it.

The use of this tactic returns you to the realm of scum, in which your predecessor, Korts, dwelled.

unvote - vote: Muffinhead

Well first of all can you give a clear reason to why you are voting me as it doesnt make sense to me. All I can do is answer what you have said.

First of all what are you going on about when you say I use tactics? I explain my oponion of the scnario and you say im using tactics with those 3 quotes. I couldve used a couple more different quotes but those were the first ones I saw.

The point of the quotes were to show that there was only one scummy post which got farside on L-1 for and that NOT ONE person had a good long proper reason to lynching farside. Yet there were people ready to end the day.

[muffinhead]

Ok before I start I need to explain why the reasonsing for voting farside in the below quote is poor

. Voted you because I consider you to be the safest bet - as far as I can tell you have an equal chance of being scum as you do being town, and since you didn't claim one of our three power roles it's not a big risk in day 1.

Now as you know there are 3 masons in this game. Now unless they are incredibly bad, they will make sure that a mason isnt lynched. Therefore there is a 45% chance that any person we lynch today will be scum.

It isn't all you. More than half of it is Korts, who you replaced, who I wanted to lynch before you replaced in. You can refer to my reasons for wanting to lynch him on previous pages. Your latest post is what drew my vote back to you/Korts.

Well I have no control over what korts has done before i replaced him. So if I get lynched for his actions then i will be really po since ive posted alot in this game but ill know personally that I personally done nothing wrong.

That implies that the reason all three of those people voted for farside was because we thought she was scum based on one post, which is inaccurate. It's providing your own reason for other people's actions. It not only ties those three people in together, but it also implies that they had a bad reason for voting, when in fact, you provide the bad reason. It's a fallacy.

You are right. For some reason I got the feeling that everyone wanted to lynch farside. Proberbly because you and dcorbe put votes back on her and ive seen nothing really scummy from her recently.

Since thats the case then @dcorbe- what is your reasoning to put the vote back on farside? As im STILL waiting for ur orginal answer.

ty for explaining icemane

[muffinhead]

mod can we send prods around?

Im not here to muck around, im here to win.

[muffinhead]

word, my bad im here.

so ks, who do you think is the best person to lynch if we had a deadline tomorrow?

Votecount as of post 375

farside22 - 3 (Roflcopter,Grimmy, dcorbe)
dcorbe - 3 (killa_seven, farside22, Mr. Blonde)
Muffinhead - 2 (Pokerface, icemanE)
Surye - 1 (Rishi)

Not Voting - 3 (Surye, Muffinhead, Tekkactus)

7 to lynch

[muffinhead]

Ok just posting to apologise for not being acitve recently due to the fact ive been really busy. Wont be able to post for another 48 hours, then I will post my oponion of whats happened.

[muffinhead]

Ok im back now with plenty of time. Im currently happy with a blond lynch as he isnt a big loss.

vote mr blond

Claim or die. Give us a reason not to lynch you in ur next post.

@tek- I would be intrested to see which game it was that was 72 pages long. Cause for a mini to go 72 pages is incredibly long.

if your role pm does not say 'scum with mr. blonde' you should be voting for him right now.

I think this is a bit of an overstatement.

Blonde, you're at L2. I don't want to put you into hammer range until you at least get a chance to defend yourself.

If you opt not to or give a poor defense, though, I have no problem lynching your ass into proverbial grass.

Wow somone seems afraid to vote.

fos tek

You should know that no one will put the final vote on blond untill he explains himself. If anyone does hammer before he speaks then that person is very likely to be lynched tomorrow.

Also i would like to hear from both grimmy and pokerface as neither of them have contributed anything since I entered the game. Still dont like surye either.

[muffinhead]

mod send prods out please

I would wait if I were you ks. How about we make it offcial that if blond doesnt post in the next 48 hours then you can put the final vote on him.

[muffinhead]

Ok im still use to the 48 hours prod so now I know its 72 hours cheers for pointing that out rishi.

After this Muffinhead analyzes more about the farside wagon and doesn't really defend himself from IcemanE's comments in the posts that follow.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 87#1129387
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 09#1129409
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 38#1129438
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 96#1129496
Judging by how icemanE went back towards dcorbe and rolfcopter in a later post it looks like muffin's defense was a deflection that got icemanE to look elsewhere.

@poker
Whats this deflection im using? Also what on earth am i suppose to defend? he made a good point and ur saying Im meant to keep defending myself? plz explain.

As things stand muffinhead's is not as scummy as korts but he is not a great improvment in my view and there is something I want to know from muffin before someone hammers Blonde. Muffinhead can you explain you reasoning for the blonde case? the blonde case took flight over the last 2 pages with little detail and I am wondering why you are on there. Your claim or die comment makes me wonder if you are just on there to see a claim. There isn't much to claim in this open setup and so I can see any player searching for claims as being suspicious.

Checking in.... 17 pages. Yawn. Day 1.

Let's lynch somebody.

Well first of all he comes in after not contributing much whatsoever saying lets just lynch somone no matter who they are.

Now when someone is on L-1 you usually get the most information out of a player. Orginally the aim of my vote was to get some info out of him to see how he would respond under the pressure. Now from my personal experience all of the townies that have been on L-1 have ended up coming up with an extradinary explination of why they should be lynched. however MrBlond hasnt responded yet in 72 hours.

To sum it up orginally it was a pressure vote but if he doesnt respond in 48 hours then im happy to lynch him. That is why I responded rishi and if you had a look then I said no one should put the final vote on him untill he responds.

Your claim or die comment makes me wonder if you are just on there to see a claim.

Now the reason I asked claim or die was so that if he was a mason then he can claim and other masons will make sure he isnt lynched as the masons are the towns only power role. If he isnt a mason then there are 4 scum and 5 vanillia meaning we have a 45% chance of lynching scum. Also remeber he cant do a fake claim as the masons will point that out to us. So poker, how does looking for claims be scumy? The way I see it there is nothing to lose.

[muffinhead]

erm, muffin, we most certainly do not want any masons claiming, and we absolutely don't want any mason claim to have to be vetted by other masons claiming.

i seriously doubt a mason will be lynched, as there would be at least two other people strongly campaigning against the lynch of that person, and masons are not about to bus one another.

saying "claim or die" in this game is definitely scummy.

omg this is now fustrating me. First of HOW ON EARTH IS SAYING CLAIM OR DIE SCUMMY?

I never said masons should claim. However if a mason is on L-1 THEN OF COURSE THEY SHOULD CLAIM. No fellow masons has to defend the mason unless its a fake claim cause then they are definatly scum and I would sacrifice a mason any day to catch guareentied scum.

Well first of all he comes in after not contributing much whatsoever saying lets just lynch somone no matter who they are.

Now when someone is on L-1 you usually get the most information out of a player. Orginally the aim of my vote was to get some info out of him

to see how he would respond under the pressure

.Now from my personal experience

all of the townies that have been on L-1 have ended up coming up with an extradinary explination of why they should be lynched

. however MrBlond hasnt responded yet in 72 hours.

To sum it up orginally it was a pressure vote but if he doesnt respond in 48 hours then im happy to lynch him. That is why I responded rishi and if you had a look then I said no one should put the final vote on him untill he responds.

You originally joined the wagon for information. What all information are you looking for? And what townies are you refering to?

Well if you actually read the underline bit then you might explain the info I was looking for.

what townies are you refering to?

Well without trying to refer to another game newbie 584 was great example. To sum it up 3 townies were on L-1 and tried there hardest to defend themselves by answering all questions and explaining why they shouldnt be lynched. 2 of them ended up being lynched but I learnt a great deal from it.

In another game still going I put the final vote on scum whos defence on L-1 was 2 lines long.

MrBlond has taken no effort to respond and surly by now wouldve at least done somthing if he was town. Thats the info I was looking for and thats why Im now happy to lynch him.

If Mrblond ends up a townie then he has let us down by not even trying.

[muffinhead]

omg this is now fustrating me. First of HOW ON EARTH IS SAYING CLAIM OR DIE SCUMMY?

I never said masons should claim. However if a mason is on L-1 THEN OF COURSE THEY SHOULD CLAIM. No fellow masons has to defend the mason unless its a fake claim cause then they are definatly scum and I would sacrifice a mason any day to catch guareentied scum.

I don't think that masons should keep the claims to themselves is all circumstances, but in this case, they probably should. Fishing for a claim *IS* scummy.

omfg im now sick of this claim is scummy crap.
@rishi
1- Where have I been fishing for claims
2- How is it scummy in this game?

Also explain the very first line as it makes no sense whatsoever to me.

If by saying masons should claim on L-1 in post 457 or saying "claim or die" is considerd fishing for a claim then so be it.

Im not going to explain this anymore as ive already explained how there is nothing to lose and how it benefits the town.

Lets now hope that Blond is scum and get focused on scum hunting tomorrow.

[muffinhead]

Well thats a shame that mrblond was town since it destroyed my theory. Im not suprised at the 2 nks however I am shocked that rishi turned out scum. Anyways back to busniess

@icemane and rofl- do either of you understand what the below quote means? If not then I will explain it again.

No fellow masons has to defend the mason unless its a fake claim cause then they are definatly scum and I would sacrifice a mason any day to catch guareentied scum.

Now if possible we should try not to go all the way to deadline because scum can then use easy excuses for voting and there is always uncertainty since we will be rushed into making decisions without reading over everything carfully.

@ surye- I would like to hear who you think is town and who you think is scum as Ive still not seen any contribution to scum hunting AFTER 19 PAGES. If you have been scum hunting then please point some quotes out to me. Untill then

vote surye

Damn, do I really only have one post so far this game? That wasn't intentional.

My original vote on Rishi was random, but I'm switching it over to nonrandom now that I've been reading a bit. He continually appears to be sowing misdirection; first towards dcorb's lack of avatar and then again for the SD bar meetup conversation.

Not having an avatar is a scum tell now?

I guess all the newbies here are in bad shape then!

@Mr. Blonde: curious why me not voting deserves scrutiny.

Actually, I play in a lot of newbie games as an IC. I'd say that 90% of them will get an avatar if asked.

Unvote, Vote: dcorbe

The vote on dcorbe is not because he doesn't have an avatar (though that's not helping). It's his general attitude. He's really defensive and lashing out at people. Pretty much every post he's made has been pissy. This doesn't necessarily mean he's scum - more likely he's just a jerk. But, he seems a good person to pressure, because I think his reaction will be interesting.

These two posts are polar opposites in terms of reasoning. If the vote in the first post was for the reasons in the second, why not put them in the original?

I'm just putting my thoughts down. Derailing a conversation is bad. Saying hey we should hook up for drinks looks like buddying up.

Is real-life buddying up the same as in-game buddying up?

Now, just supposed one of them offers to buy all the drinks and then says, "Hey, I know we're not supposed to discuss the game outside of the thread. But you're a really good player. I respect that. By the way, I'm town in that game."

Then I'd be skeptical.

At least we know they're probably not scumbuddies. You'd think they'd try to arrange a meeting during their PMs in that case.

He then starts this conversation off, which, although it appears to defend Surye and Celebloki, pushes the conversation completely off track for the rest of the page, when the roots of actual discussion were starting.

------
I'd also take a second look at everyone on the farside wagon. One post that's at best semi-suspicious doesn't not an L1 make.

d-d-d-distancing. tek saw scum in rishi's play where no one else did because tek was scum with rishi. tek never pressed the issue because nobody else wanted to lynch rishi and that was a good thing for him.

vote: tekkactus

This is an excellent point rofl which adds to my day 1 suspecions of him. But I have never seen scum random vote one of there own of and it wouldnt make sense to do such a thing as it would be giving to much away. For now

fos tekkactus

i was wrong about farside yesterday btw, she's probably town.

so the updated town list is:
roflcopter, farside, dattebayo (rep. dcorbe), iceman

Im also curious to hear why you think farside is town cause that is a massive change from yesterday since you targeted farside the whole day. Also wondering why you think dattebayo (dcorbe) is town as well.

Pokerface, Mason has been eaten! (Kibbles and bits even!)

This seemed like an obvious choice. Poker was way protown - I was actually a little suspicious of him, but it makes sense now.

Rishi, Werewolf has been shot! (With silver bullets no less!)

This doesn't seem like such an obvious choice. I'm gonna look back at some day one interactions real quick.

@ icemane- Why were you suspicious of poker? Also why doesnt rishi seem like an obvious choice to you?



Well I still havnt heard from grimmy since I entered the match. Also want to hear what datte has to say about the game after a read over.

[muffinhead]

@ icemane- Why were you suspicious of poker? Also why doesnt rishi seem like an obvious choice to you?

I was suspicious of poker because of what I mentioned yesterday - that whole thing about scum wanting the other team dead, so they have extra incentive to be protown. Poker was far and away the most protown yesterday, so I was a bit suspicious, nothing I was going to act on on day one though. The fact that he was a mason explains all that, though.

Rishi doesn't seem like an obvious choice because he didn't stick out to me as being particularly protown or awfully scummy yesterday, just middle of the road.

So you thought that poker was scum for acting incrdibly protownish? No offense but that has to be one of the craziest theories ive heard of. Definatly the most scummiest post ive seen from you this game.

[muffinhead]

I also have to go back and read everything again, especially the stuff with Rishi in it.

Grimmy
needs to make some charts of some sort.

Why a chart?

Just tell us who you think is scum and who is town with reasoning.

[muffinhead]

Ok first up

mod send prod to surye and others please

Also This will be my last post before I get back Thursday so

I declear that im on V/LA

. Unless you are an aussie then you proberbly wont know where the blue mountains are.

Now as for scum hunting I suggest we look for the 2nd werewolf. I really doubt that its tek because as I already mentioned he rv rishi and it is extremely rare from newbie scums to vote there own partner.

Im also doubting that ks is scum because this is the 3rd time ive played with him and every single time he just lurks and post nothing. Im assuming that we would see a change in attitude from him.

As for rofl I get town vibes from him yet I dont really know why. This is the first time ive played with him so I cant judge him due to his personality. He seems to have posted the most so I see him as a big loss if he turns up town.


So that leaves us down to just 2 people to possibly be rishis partner. Surye and grimmy. Neither of them have posted much whatsoever and have contributed nothing towards discussion. I could lynch either one of them. At this stage I want surye lynched purly because ive seen grimmy lurk and turn out town in another game while its totally uncharacterisitc for surye to do such a thing.

I would like to hear everyones oponion of these 2 and which one they prefer to lynch.

If these 2 players havnt contributed any info by the time I get back from V/La then I will be definatly lynching them.

[muffinhead]

Hi all, I am back. Now lets get down to busniess. Dont have long so just a quick summary.

First off its a pity that we once again lynched town. To be honest I wouldve also put the final vote on tek. Im absoulutly shocked that icemane turned out to be rishis scum partner.

Now farside is the only one that is definatly town to me. That leaves us with a 50% chance of lynching scum. Currently I really doubt that ks is scum, espcially after his previous post.

Rofl had a massive case on tek and has come up with good points throughout the game, yet we are yet to lynch scum. I doubt he is scum but I still hav to consider him.

@Grimmy you have posted no contribution throughout the game and you are STILL asking others for oponions. The fact I have no info on you and find the rest of the players look town makes me very sus of you.

Suyre is still yet to contribut anything and just comes on to post 1 or 2 liners. You have ignored everything ive said and put the final vote on tek without giving your own personal reasons. I hate it when people just move around questions without answering them. Thats why im most sus of surye and thats why im not going to let it go untill he has contributed some decent info to scum hunting.
What I dont understand is why am I the only one suspecisious of him?

@grimmy and surye- I would like to know who you think is scum and give some reasoning.

@farside- What have I done to be 2nd on your list? Also how on earth is surye not sus to you. I find it unbelievable for me to be higher then surye

[muffinhead]

i am suddenly very worried that muffinhead/farside is the scumteam.

Well now im very curious as to how you got that idea. Can you give us an actual reason why you think that?

If I was scum with farside then why would I out him out as town? I was scum with farside in movie mafia we won which was incredibly fun.

[muffinhead]

If I was scum with farside then why would I out him out as town?

um, what? you'd say it because its lylo and all you guys have to do is lynch anyone but the two of you and you win. thats actually one of the things that makes me think you guys could be scum together. this line is making me more sure of my conclusion.

k7, i'm most sure that you're town, so please read this game with the idea in mind that the wolves are dead and we're looking for a second 2 man scumteam. also that its lylo. and help me make sure town wins.

Yes thats true but remember that tomorrow is also lylo so its generally the best time for scum to buss then they dont look sus at all tomorrow and win anyways. I dont recall ever being in a match where scum out there own partner as definate town and I cant imagine scum doing it because it would look too obvious. Your conclusion is way off track.

mod send prods

I havnt posted in a while for my standards and rofl is the only one to post since. Is there anyone other then me and rofl who want to win this?

finally

vote suyre

I honestly cant picture him being town as much as I try. Am I the only one here who thinks that?

[muffinhead]

Happy Birthdays Grimmy and Qman. Still waiting for others oponions on todays lynch. Untill then theres not much I can do.

[muffinhead]

Happy Birthdays Grimmy and Qman. Still waiting for others oponions on todays lynch. Untill then theres not much I can do.

I can see the Survey case. How about you tell me who you think is scum and why. I still have this on my must read list.

Well Im preety sure I made a list on the previous page but anyways I will give a summary of scummy things from each person.

1st suyre- Hasnt posted any info whatsoever which is uncharacteristic, Ignors my questions to him, every post is either 1 or 2 lines, talks off topic when he does post, hasnt given a good reason for any of his votes, agrees with everyone.

2nd Grimmy- hasnt contributed any of his own info, too happy and out there which is uncharacteristic, usually only 1 or 2 liners, when he posts its off topic.

3rd rofl- such a big case against tek, huge change of oponion on farside wagon, making assumptions without reasoning.

ks and farsdie I wont lynch as I cannot imagine them being scum. So straight away we have a 66% chance of lynching scum.

So in order from most to least suspecisious- surye, grimmy, rofl, ks, farside

[muffinhead]

if i were scum i would have been trying to kill masons and opposing scum. which is what the scum have been successful in doing so far, much to the detriment of the wolves and the masons.

if i were following the game closely i would have tried to figure out what was going on with the whispers. if i were lurking or didn't care, maybe not. but i don't lurk and i do care.

i am pretty sure you've known what i've been getting at since our whispers on day one, but i still think you're possibly scum at this point who decided to go after the opposing scumteam and let them deal with the town power. i've got some deciding to do.

This is why I thought yesterday when Survey noticed our little chat. I know it is all WIFOM whether you believe me scum or not. Personally knowing what I know and the first wolf down I would have tried to take out a mason. So my thought is that maybe with everything that was said by Tek yesterday scum thought IcemanE was mason. Does that make sense to you?

I dont understand what this has to do with suyre. Personally if I was scum then I would try to take out the other wolf so that I wouldnt be nked in future. I would be shocked if scum killed icemane because they thought he was the other wolf as to me he was the most pro-town player.

Anyways farside can you explain what this has to do with surye plz?

[muffinhead]

if i were scum i would have been trying to kill masons and opposing scum. which is what the scum have been successful in doing so far, much to the detriment of the wolves and the masons.

if i were following the game closely i would have tried to figure out what was going on with the whispers. if i were lurking or didn't care, maybe not. but i don't lurk and i do care.

i am pretty sure you've known what i've been getting at since our whispers on day one, but i still think you're possibly scum at this point who decided to go after the opposing scumteam and let them deal with the town power. i've got some deciding to do.

This is why I thought yesterday when Survey noticed our little chat. I know it is all WIFOM whether you believe me scum or not. Personally knowing what I know and the first wolf down I would have tried to take out a mason. So my thought is that maybe with everything that was said by Tek yesterday scum thought IcemanE was mason. Does that make sense to you?

I dont understand what this has to do with suyre. Personally if I was scum then I would try to take out the other wolf so that I wouldnt be nked in future. I would be shocked if scum killed icemane because they thought he was the other wolf as to me he was the most pro-town player.

Anyways farside can you explain what this has to do with surye plz?

Long story short if you recall roflcopter changed his mind about me and we had this whispering going on. Well that conversation told me everything I needed to know about him and dcorbe. After that it looked like to me no one noticed are little whispering or didn't get what we were talking about. However when we started again yesterday Survey picked up on it and responded. So my thought is did he go back and look at what we said was it something that Tek said that made mafia look at IcemanE. Why would mafia want to take out a wolf if they knew who the Mason's were?

Ok i c now. I feel much more comfortable that suyre and grimmy are scum partners. The thing with suyre is that to me he has looked so scummy this whole game which is why im now confused with suyre and im really not in the thinking mood right now. So for now

vote grimmy

[muffinhead]

vote: muffinhead

Why?

Im also curious why

EBWOP:

unvote, vote grimmy

[muffinhead]

ty Qman for the mass prod as I just got it and have been waiting for the last 48 hours to hear oponions from other players.

Not much for me to say personally. Im convinced that suyre and grimmy are the scum and if their not then im truly sorry for letting the town down by being so stubborn. All im waiting for is who others are voting for and what sort of reason has rofl come up with this time for voting me.

[muffinhead]

Ok now im convinced grimmy is scum. His last few posts are enough for me to lynch him and I dont see the need for an explination.

@rofl- Can you do us a favour and please look elsewhere for scum.

Lets say i was scum with farside. There are only 2 problems with that.
a- why did icemane get killed last night?
b- why is farside explaining it to me in the game thread?

[muffinhead]

Ok now im convinced grimmy is scum. His last few posts are enough for me to lynch him and I dont see the need for an explination.

@rofl- Can you do us a favour and please look elsewhere for scum.

Lets say i was scum with farside. There are only 2 problems with that.
a- why did icemane get killed last night?
b- why is farside explaining it to me in the game thread?

Don't try the WIFOM logic that is terrible. I can't even get away with that and I knew for 2 days the truth about someone people.

Can you please clarify what wifom logic is? I know what it stands for but I have no clue what is means on ms.

[muffinhead]

Hi all, my apologies for not posting here. I think im losing intrest in this game unfortunatly.

Ok first up I remember saying to myself that there is absoultly no chance that farside is scum at the beginning of the day. I dont remeber whther I had actual reasoning or if it was that I just couldnt imagine him being scum. Right now I really doubt he is scum, but hes done nothing really pro-town nor has he been scummy today.


The main reason for me thinking you are scum is because I cant imagine rofl,ks or farside being scum. Therefore that leaves us with you and suyre. My gut feeling tells me that you and suyre are the remaining scum and I went against my gut feeling in another game when I was right the whole time.

[muffinhead]

That leaves Grimmy, Suyre and K7. I'm not sure why K7 is in the clear. He's lurker no matter what his alignment so I never dismiss him.

Well i personally have never seen ks as scum. But surly we would notice some change in if not his lurking, then his attitude towards the game.

[muffinhead]

proded as well. Not much for me to say since ive made up my mind that grimmy is todays lynch and suyre is tomorrow. I honestly cant picture any other scum pair.

@grimmy. You are currently going to be lynched. Any last words to defend urself?

[muffinhead]

unvote
vote surye

done

[muffinhead]

WOOOHOOOOOOOOO. Good its a great feeling to win when the odds are aginst you. This I believe is my greatest win as I came into the game with 3 votes on me and argubly the most likely to be lynched at the time.

First off I hope grimmy has no hard feelings for me starting a lynch against him. Since I started it, it wouldve made me highly unlikly to be lynched tomorrow. Just having a brief look at the masons and werewolves it seems I was a target for both of them lol. I personally believe the fact that I replaced korts ended up benefitting me so that I had an extremely low chance of being lynched even if I looked town.

It was a great game to play and fun to play with all of you here. And ty for modding qman and keeping the game going as there is nothing worse then a mod who doesnt send prods. That I really appriciated. Also curious to hear more of your thoughts as you watched it from the sideline.
as for poker there are sum people here who cannot drink yet

Will sum up the game tomorrow after a good nights sleep

[muffinhead]

I smelt bus when Muffin voted Grimmy there. Rolf jumped on muffin and then muffin voted grimmy. Lynch your lurkish scum buddy to look good and seal things in end game where Rolf will be gone via NK and farside and K7 will be there to trust you. Muffin had big time oportunity with that plan.

I was on the right track but didn't have the best fuel. Oh well. GG to grimmy and everybody else too.

well I must admit that you were spot on poker with this above post. That was basically the idea.

I must say that both werewolves done a brilliant job as scum. Definatly a much better job looking pro-town then what I did. I wasnt suspecisious of either of them.

Rishi was killed because he seemed least likely to be vanllia in my eyes. However if i can remember back then I think i saw him more likly to be mason.

I was absoutly shocked though when icemane came up as the other ww. I was convinced he was mason when poker came up mason. Thats why I was asking those questions to icemane about poker on day 2. That even convinced me more thats icemane was a mason and that was the only thing that stopped him from winning this game.

This is somthing I made sure didnt happen to me as I clearly set out from the beginning that I wasnt a mason. eg the mason claim thingy you do when you are on L-1. I still think its a good strategy and logical and no one else understood which became fustrating. I think i wouldve argued the same point if I was town but i wasnt so I cant know that as a fact. Thats why I didnt see what I was doing as scummy. Also now looking back at the game it was 2 masons that reacted to that post which revealed themselves which I didnt take note.

Also was sure that rofl was rishis partner because they seemed to distance each other on day 1. As soon as datte came up mason, I knew that rofl was the final mason, but not based on the small writing. Based on hunderds of posts like this on day 1.

farside, seriously, i had gotten the idea from one of your earlier posts that you understood by now if you were town that dcorbe is too. so please stop voting for him. if you're scum, well, carry on and i'm glad i'm so hellbent on lynching you.

Ive also seen rofl do the same thing in another game as mason and ended up claiming on page 3 or somthing.

I must say that grimmy done well to plan the kills of both wolfs. I still cant believe that you didnt know about masons even though I mentiioned them in night chat. Also you done a brilliant job settling in with the other vanillia townies.

Now I do think we had some luck with the wolfs really ending up assisting us. First off I think i can say that if poker was alive on day 2 then I was dead meat lol. Also if datte wasnt nked night 2 then I think i wouldve also been in deep water.


After I replaced korts my aim was simply to get through the day even though I looked most likely to be lynched let alone last the whole game and win. Thats why I feel like I desearved this win. Wait I forgot how grimmy killed both wolves. Thats why I felt

we

desearved to win and thats why TEAM MAFIA RULE

[muffinhead]

Poker I will answer your questions in a couple of days as im extremly busy currently.

[muffinhead]

ok my apolougies for not responding earlier poker but as you requestied here I go.

First up can I ask if anyone knows how to make QUICK TOPIC pages? If so can someone please show me how to. Since im up for modding my first game soon and it would seem so much eaiser to use those pages for scum/mason chat.


Now first up I want to get the mason claim thingy correct. I think i was to intimidated to actually end up posting it but I was going to suggest that every player on L-1 claims. If scum claimed townie then it should look obvious as they are under extreme pressure. Also if masons claimed mason then we can assume its true. I also said in the game that if no mason responded then we could re-assure that person was a mason so that we wouldnt have to sacrifice another mason to prove himself. and ONLY if it was a fake claim then a mason would respond since its worth sacrifying a mason to lynch certain scum.

This was my point of view and I saw/still believe this strategy wouldve benefitted the town. From my perspective it loked like a win/win situation for the town and would also help me find the other scumteam. I was using this as an attempt to look more town, however i had no idea at the beggining of this game that mason fishing was scummy so it sorta backfired.

Although it is scummy, i thought my logic was correct so I want to know from pokerface inparticular or anyone really if I missed somthing in my logic.

Ok more to come in soon, where i will answer ur questions poker.