Mini 584: Sudo_Nym Presents- Over!

[Lowell]

Hi folks. I'm here. Will read by tomorrow.

[Lowell]

This may have to wait another day, just letting you know. I'm trying to find time this afternoon...

[Lowell]

Okay as I read, here goes:

1-25- random voting
27- ice FOSs cake
28-29- mafiassk and cake would like explanation for 27
32- zeek agrees w/ ice, votes cake to "stir the pot"
37- cake offers longwinded response [useless]
39- SPN meta-discusses non-random votes [suspicious]
41- johoohno agrees w/ cake [?]
49- capcake leads w/ 3 votes (marmalade, TSPN, Zeek)
51- johoo calls out ice and greasy for meaningless posts [good]
53- TSPN votes ice for unvoting for no reason
55- zeek pushes cake lynch
56,58- greasy, ice attack zeek w/ FOSs [a little bit off...]
60- cake OMGUSs, votes zeek
62- mafiassk defends ice, orders others not to vote [dumb, but town]
67- greasy spot attacks post 62, posits scum protecting partner theory [weak, and scummy]
68- faiere agrees [still not seeing it]
69- marmalade votes greasyspot
73- ice votes zeek [mediocre reason]
75- TSPN votes mafiassk based also on 62
86- zeek leads with 3 votes (johoo, cake, ice)
88- zeek points out the dumbness of the votes against him [good]
89- TDC votes zeek
92- TSPN chastises people for whining about wagons [good]
96- ice continues to defend his vote on zeek [also good]
99- faiere jumps in, FOSs zeek and TSPN
101- TSPN reiterates his case for a bit more carefree play on D1 [okay]
105- zeek votes iceman for "fake" scumhunting [a bit OMGUS]
108,109- zeek and iceman find faierelord scummy for 99
112- zeek leads with 4 votes (johoo, cake, ice, TDC)
113- nano jumps in, votes zeek (5th vote)
115- zeek again decries his wagon, says there's "scum on it" [useless, scummy]
116- marmalade points out zeek's scummy style, doesn't vote [good]
119- johoo unvotes zeek, FOSs zeek [scummy. not clear AT ALL where he stands on zeek]
125- zeek again questions the legitimacy of the case on him
126- faierelord explains it again
127- TDC opposes zeek claim
131- faierelord votes zeek, fifth vote, wants zeek claim
136- TSPN votes faiere
143- Lowell enters [huzzah!]
144- TDC again opposes zeek claim, wants more from some players
146- TSPN agrees w/ TDC, calls claim request "fishing"
147- faerie claims he'd "think about [killing] if [zeek] claimed vig" [slip, maybe?]
150- TSPN unvotes, looks for new targets
155- TSPN votes mafiassk
156- johoo unvotes, votes mafiassk as well, retains FOS on zeek [odd]

[Lowell]

A few things:

johoo

looks like he was eager to find a different wagon, twice, but doesn't want to admit it. He had his vote on

zeek

, only to pull it while retaining an FOS. When he followed TSPN in voting mafiassk, he felt the need to stress his retaining of an FOS on zeek. This seems like pressing to me; covering his ass so no one can say "hey, what happened with your suspicion of zeek?"

The

CaptCake

wagon fizzled out for no reason. No comment, here, other than I'd just like to draw attention to it because I don't understand it.

greasy spot

looks really terrible in posts 56 and 67. His rushing to point out that mafiassk's post defending iceman (62) could be scum protecting each other just seems too opportunistic. And way too obvious to be true. There's no way I can sanely read that passage and convince myself that mafiassk just came out and openly asked others not to vote for his scumpartner. I can, however, make a big deal of it if I'm just trying to make it look like it matters. Which is what I think Greasy is doing. It's possible mafiassk IS scum and defending a townie, but that doesn't strike me as all that likely either.

For some reason

nano

's post 113 gives me solid town vibes. I couldn't tell you why, other than I'm a sucker for WIFOM and doubt he'd be so brazen as to jump in with a fifth vote if he was scum.

I'm also getting solid town vibes from

marmalade

, both because he's seen some of the game the same way I have and because i particularly like 69 and 116.

Others I'm not sure of yet. For now I'm not feeling the mafiassk mini-wagon, so I'll

unvote, vote Greasy Spot

.

[Lowell]

It's cute that you use the same logic that I voted you for to accuse me as well.

What I'm saying is I don't like when Z says "don't vote for X" then you jump in and say "EUREKA!! Z and X are scumbuddies!" That's not super-sophisticated analysis to me as much as it is opportunistically trying to look like you're scumhunting.

Faerie- I considered votes for either zeek or johoo as well. I'd vote for zeek at deadline, but I'd like to see GS get some of the heat he deserves.

[Lowell]

zeek- Unless I have strong townie vibes, I'd vote for anyone at deadline if it came to that. So to answer your question I'm not hugely suspicious of you ATM, but I don't necessarily think you're town. That you had a weak case made against you doesn't mean you can't be guilty.

[Lowell]

Did I just get accused of quitting already?

[Lowell]

I'm out until Friday. May or may not have internet.

[Lowell]

Other than that he's sort of useless, someone remind me what the case against him is again?

[Lowell]

I don't see the case on iceman, he seems pretty authentic to me. His posts don't look like role-fishing as much as just a wide net of stuff he's willing to talk about. It might not be USEFUL, but unless someone does something dumb in response, it shouldn't cause any great harm either.

[Lowell]

I'm back and reading.

[Lowell]

Iceman looks like he's starting to crack under the pressure, though I still have no idea what the Iceman case was.

[Lowell]

Sorry I'm here, don't prod. I removed the wrong game from my list.

[Lowell]

Faerie- Is there anything new on zeek? Or is that actually just a "he's annoying" vote?

[Lowell]

I'd be interesting in pursuing the nano case. But until we have a replacement, zeek's pushing of it looks a little strange.

[Lowell]

I'd be willing to lynch zeek to get this game moving. How many votes does he have?

[Lowell]

Still only 5?

unvote, vote zeek

.

[Lowell]

Some of this seems like crocodile tears to me. zeek has as good a chance as not to come up scum, so why the end of the world talk?

[Lowell]

vote iceman

.

For post 438. He seemed a little to eager to jump on someone for the hammer.

[Lowell]

I really hate doc claims.

[Lowell]

I do not believe the claim.

I think he's trying to bait the real doc, which is more or less why I hate doc claims when someone gets to L-1 after being all scummy. It's like a free doc kill for scum for getting caught. Get a townie on your side (it's almost certain TSN is town either way) and force the real doc out of hiding.

[Lowell]

unvote, vote GS

. This claim reeks to me. I believe there's a doc, but I dont' believe its him. Letting him off the hook is only forcing the doc to reveal.

I'll still vote iceman, too, btw.

[Lowell]

Also, and this is funny, Lowell moved his vote TO GS only AFTER GS claimed doc. Scummiest move I think I've ever seen: he wasn't voting for GS until he learned that he was doc. That's so ridiculously scummy I can't help but change my FoS to:

vote: Lowell

I suggest you all take a look at him as well.

I wasn't voting him because I was voting you. My vote on him now is to demonstrate my not believing his claim. The doc claim makes him MORE suspicious in my eyes, not less.

[Lowell]

unvote, vote iceman

.

Still don't like this, but if GS is lying I suppose we'll get him anyway.

[Lowell]

@ Lowell - what makes you so convinced that GS is lying about being doc?

Also:

Still don't like this, but if GS is lying I suppose we'll get him anyway.

What are you saying here? It seems like you're saying you don't like the fact that you're voting for me. Is that the case? If so, there's no reason to. There is no reason to limit yourself to choosing between myself and Greasy Spot - and additionally, you're misguided on both counts. I am about 90% sure you're scum now. The only thing keeping me from being 100% sure is that you haven't come right out and said it. Other than that I can't possibly imagine you not being mafia.

I'm saying I dont' like the doc claim. I'm very happy to be voting you, however.

[Lowell]

Iceman's still scum. And he's devolving into a zeekstorm. Can we lynch him now?

OK, not really. We should wait for everyone to claim not-doc, and then lynch him.

Okay, again, I don't like this. Asking people to claim "not doc" is basically the same as asking the doc to counterclaim. If GS is the doc, scum already know and this is pointless. If he's scum trying a gambit to take down a powerrole with him, then saying "not doc" from all sides pretty much limits the field.

[Lowell]

A few things re: iceman's "case"

1) First off, the doc claim IS scummy, because it is almost certainly something a caught scum would claim. So his claiming doc doesn't do anything for me. IF he's the real doc, he'll turn up dead anyway and it won't matter. However, if he's not, the whole point is to try to out the real doc, which is dumb.

If you're saying you want to not kill him because he could be telling the truth, that's fine. But if he's scum, and the real doc is outed, that's a free (unnecessary) power role given, as it will become clear later on that he's lying anyway.

That said, I'm claiming not doc.

2) I tend to make longer posts every so often, then try to go back and catch up. It's not that unusual for me to forget shit between them. But whatever, criticism accepted.

3) I found the twilight events scummy as hell, by several people. I picked you because I thought yours was the worst. Most people were happy with the zeek lynch and waiting to see what happened, and a few (you, most notably) started apologizing for it before anything was revealed. You (and TSQ) were setting up the next lynch before the day even started. After GS claimed doc, you immediately shifted gears and tried to show your good side. It's as good evidence for GS actually BEING the doc as I've seen.

[Lowell]

Iceman- I think I made clear why I'm voting for you. It was your actions at and around the D1 lynch.

Tornado- Again, my point about the doc claim is that it's exactly what scum would claim in this situation (if they thought they were about to be lynched). I've accepted the "wait and see" approach, but I'm still not thrilled with the "not doc" claims. If he's telling the truth, they do nothing. If he's not, then we're limiting the NK field.

[Lowell]

I'll be gone the rest of the week. Sorry, all.

[Lowell]

I'm back. It might take me a couple of days to find regular internet access again. Sorry.

[Lowell]

A couple of things.

1) Again I apologize. I moved into a new house without internet, and internet has been down at work for the past few days. This was after having been gone at a wedding for 4 days. I'm writing this from the library.

2) a) I don't understand why iceman is still alive. All he's done is point and say "look, over there!" when accused. The fact that his lynch sort of fizzled out without much fanfare from anyone (as everyone quickly looked in other directions) makes me more sure this is the right play.
b) FL's position worries me. A lot of people have jumped on the joohoo case more or less because he told them to. I don't particularly think FL is scum, and I appreciate his activeness, but I do think a few scum are on the wagon, trying to look good in FL's eyes, knowing that a lot of players are content to lurk. Which is pretty much the only reason I don't suspect joohoo at the moment.

[Lowell]

So you are not suspicious of Johoo, because there might be scum on the wagon? It's a given that there will be scum on any wagon. It's called bussing.

Also possible. But it's enough of an alarm that I'm not super eager to jump on board.

[Lowell]

@ice,

When I see a wagon started by a vocal player and immediately jumped on by suspicious people, my immediate reaction is that people are buddying up to that vocal player. This is what I see happening w/ the joohoo case. So, no, I'm not saying everyone voting for joo is scum or that joo isn't scum, but if I had to guess, I'd say you and/or celebloki are the most likely scum in the bunch.

[Lowell]

TDC- At this point I tend to believe the doc claim. I find it hard to beleive a real doc would both claim "not doc" and not in the slightest pursue any follow-up against GS.

[Lowell]

Eh, I think if he was PMing his scumbuddy he wouldn't have told us about it.

[Lowell]

This game got lost in the shuffle. Getting back into things now.

[Lowell]

I'm a sucker for WIFOM, but looking over the posts around joo's lynch is a bit of a credit to TDC and FL in my eyes. I think a fellow scum is more likely to keep his mouth shut around his buddy's lynch, but they both have a lot of twilight commentary.

[Lowell]

So, iceman:
Why the soft claim in twilight?

I was hoping to get NK'd to save GS. Didn't work out as planned.

Something about this answer sounds just a little f-ed up.

I know what it is. Everything.

[Lowell]

You guys don't want to lynch me, but honestly, I've been such a horrible player in this game activity wise, that I deserve it.

If anything, a TSQ wagon makes more sense. "Feeling absurd" is not a real reason.

Not really a defense.

vote surye

@iceman- imagine my shock at you wanting to look at me instead...

[Lowell]

The "honestly, I've been such a horrible player... that I deserve it" is what I don't trust.

[Lowell]

Well that's actually not what you said, but regardless, when someone plays the "I realize I've been bad, guys, do what you want" card, that's when I start reading scum.

[Lowell]

No, it isn't. If someone wants to give me a reason I'd answer. If not, Iceman is still the play for today. There wasn't a lot of movement at the end of the day yesterday between joohoo and ice votes. Their both being scum explains why.

[Lowell]

Well I was. But that's not the point.

What I'm saying is nothing happened in the waning moments of the competing joohoo/iceman wagons. Usually scum don't tip their hands, but if they do, it's usually in a situation like this when they'll risk saving their buddy if they can push another wagon along. The fact that ice's wagon didn't get any late swing-votes makes me think scumteam didn't really have a preference, meaning they're of the same alignment.

[Lowell]

I'd really rather not. Can someone instead explain a little better what the case against me is?

unvote, vote TDC

for role-fishing.

[Lowell]

I want TSPN to explain himself first.

[Lowell]

Iceman is the play because there was no late movement towards him on the day joohoo was lynched. Were he scum, teammates would have likely tried to sway the balance at deadline. The fact that we were able to just roll to a joohoo lynch makes me think BOTH the top 2 candidates were scum.

Asking me to claim is lazy when there's more than can be done.

[Lowell]

Great job, all.

I'm a cop. I investigated Nano/Sir T, who is innocent.

[Lowell]

Yeah, sorry. Sir T was night 2. TDC was night one. Both innocent, unless I'm naive.

[Lowell]

unvote TDC, vote iceman

... to return.

TDC vote was a misdirection, for those who care. Doesn't matter now.

[Lowell]

I change my answer. I'm scum and I will haunt you all from beyond the grave.

Good game everyone. It's been fun.




Note to self: Be better at mafia. That is all.