Open 78: Friends & Enemies (Over) - before 608

[Dattebayo]

I'm still reading up.

[Dattebayo]

OK, I’m not all the way through but here are some of my thoughts so far:

dcorbe wagon is being ridden by scum, methinks

unvote, vote: farside

I'm gonna have to

FoS: Rishi

as well.

However, I agree with what rofl has said thus far regarding dcorbe (who, when he's trying to be very sincere, uses his real name in his posts, apparently ^^^), especially this:

dcorbe wagon is being ridden by scum, methinks

I have to go right now, so I'll continue to post my thoughts later.
As such,

unvote, vote: farside

.

Out of the 4 people on the Dcorbe bandwagon, why did you guys choose to vote Farside? Frankly, I found Rishi the most suspicious.

giving so thoughts on Mr. Blond so far I'm in a couple of current games with him. I will just say that he seems like this in all the games. I would say he is not a great scum hunter by any stretch of the imagination.
dcorbe trying to derail the conversation and buddying up in game is noted. Surye and icemanE oh and celebloki going along with it also noted. So many people to choose from. One among them could be scum.
I feel good about roflcopter so far. He was right to point out my comment and question me further about it. I'm feeling good about my vote ATM, however.

fos surye, icemanE and celebloki

Votecount as of post 100

farside22 - 3 (Roflcopter, IcemanE, Mr. Blonde)
Rishi - 1 (Tekkactus)
dcorbe - 1 (farside22)
Grimmy - 1 (Celebloki)
Mr. Blonde - 1 (Korts)
Celebolki - 1 (Pokerface)

Not Voting - 4 (Grimmy, dcorbe, Surye, Rishi)

7 to lynch

It’s hypocritical of you to accuse Dcorbe of buddying up when you buddy up with Roflcopter in the same post.
FoS: Farside

If I could put my finger on it. dcorbe converstations and comments just arent' sitting right with me. He brings up the Sd thing and now is getting pissy with others mentioning it. You know that when someone is too nice thing. (i call it a politian smile in RL) well that's what I feel reading him is someone who will smile while talking to you then stab you in the back the moment you turn around.

I don’t recall Dcorbe having angrily worded posts regarding the side talking. He FoSed Korts for pushing it as a non-issue but there was nothing pissy about that.
FoS: Farside again.

Well at L-1 all I have is my claim as town. At least lynching me no power roles are revealed, which gives the scum nothing but guessing for the night.
I don't think I'm reaching. Please look at those who were on my wagon. I don't think my vote against dcorbe is wrong. I say look at him tomorrow.

Hmm... I initially glanced over this post, but look back at it I'm actually sort of inclined to believe it. Though scum often say something like "I'm just a townie so at least we aren't losing anyone important", the "look at the people on my wagon, especially dcorbe" part of the message sort of hits home. That last piece of the message would hold no water if farside turned up scum, and farside seems to sort of concede instead of getting overly defensive and fighting back. Her comments about the offtopic bar discussion and wide-reaching suspicions are still suspect, but, at least for the time being, I'm going to believe the claim.

unvote

I agree with this (somewhat). The “look at the people on my wagon, especially Dcorbe” is only beneficial for a town player since if Farside is scum that comment would be overlooked. However, there is one use it could have as scum; to WIFOM the town into believing her claim. Therefore, I am not going to make any assumptions based on her claim alone.

do you have any problem with me doing a PBPA on you, rofl? Because if you do, just say so and I'll skip to voting you.

no doing a pbpa is fine i am just interested in what in particular made you jump immediately to me from farside.

Your reaction to the claim. Of course, it was the obvious claim, and the safe claim for scum of either faction... Damn! Okay, I see where you're coming from now. Anyway, now that I have it scheduled, I'm doing the PBPA. I don't like your reaction to the proposition.

This post was odd. Korts realizes that he had no good reason to decide to do a PBPA in the first place but decides to do it because it was scheduled. This makes me suspect ulterior motives. It doesn’t seem like he’s building the PBPA for the purpose of realistic scum hunting but rather to look as if he’s scum hunting.
Bear with me here, but I’m going to try to point out some particular wording that he uses that helped come to the above mentioned conclusion. The second and third sentences seem to be ordered in an unusual way. He puts the sentence about a new justification for doing the PBPA after the one where he says that it’s already been scheduled. It would seem that players generally order things in the way that seems most likely or in order of importance. The fact that he placed the scheduling point before the other justification seems to indicate that he finds it more important to just do the PBPA than he does have good reasoning behind doing it.

I've reconsidered regarding farside's claim. But the choice was because you were the first to pounce on farside's claim. Now I realize that this was a bad reason, but your reaction to my proposition telling enough for me to do that PBPA.

A few posts later Korts tries to take reconciliatory steps. Here he drops the “it was already scheduled” argument probably because it was self-incriminating.

I don't like how defensive dcorbe gets at simple comments such as below.

The vote on dcorbe is not because he doesn't have an avatar (though that's not helping). It's his general attitude. He's really defensive and lashing out at people. Pretty much every post he's made has been pissy. This doesn't necessarily mean he's scum - more likely he's just a jerk. But, he seems a good person to pressure, because I think his reaction will be interesting.

My attitude? My posting history? Are you serious?

We're 4 pages into day 1 and I've barely posted at this point. The only post I've made so far that should be interpreted as pissy is my STFU of Suspicion on Grimmy, but it didn't seem to bother him as much as it bothers you and I even tried to excuse myself a few posts later (which you're either ignoring or haven't read yet).

I made a comment about his off topic conversation and he once again goes on the defensive rather quickly. There were votes against him, mine was in good fun, but I just felt with his response to a BW vote that usually goes no were day 1 (those who played larger games may have seen BW day one for crap and giggles) is used to weed out and look for scum sometimes. Rishi had his reason's and I note he seems to get pissy with his answer back.

You; sir, are pushing a wagon out of pure opportunism. I can at least understand all the random votes and the OMGUSing going on here, but you look like you're attempting to pick the ball up and build a case out of thin air.

You're still reaching. At one point in time you liked this. You went as far as to say I had a good point and now you're going back on your word. Which is it? Either I'm contributing usefully or I'm not. It can't be one or the other when it suits your whims.

QFT. FoS: Farside

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 63#1098563 Roflcopter has already pointed out how this could be distancing.

Damn, do I really only have one post so far this game? That wasn't intentional.

My original vote on Rishi was random, but I'm switching it over to nonrandom now that I've been reading a bit. He continually appears to be sowing misdirection; first towards dcorb's lack of avatar and then again for the SD bar meetup conversation.

These two posts are polar opposites in terms of reasoning. If the vote in the first post was for the reasons in the second, why not put them in the original?

Well, your second post was better than your first, but you need to start contributing. This game is pretty soft on lurkers so far, but this will be a problem for you as the game continues.

I removed the irrelevant stuff from this post. What I wanted to bring attention to is the bottom paragraph. It looks like coaching a scum buddy to me.

[Dattebayo]

I forgot to:

FoS: Tekkacactus

[Dattebayo]

pretty sure she's town now though. the reason is not so much relevant.

Unless you have a good reason not to tell us, I suggest you should.

[quote"Tekkactus"]Regardless, as IcemanE said, it's in town's best interest to be looking for a Goon today, because crosskills help town.[/quote]
IcemanE didn't say that. Here's what he really said:

2. @ the town: Do you think it's a better idea to try to hunt down Rishi's partner today to get rid of one scumteam, or to try to find the other - the reason I ask is because, like we saw last night, there's the possibility for a crosskill with both teams alive.

Personally I think we should just kill whoever seems scummiest regardless of what we think their faction is

, but I'm curious what you all think.

In fact, he even voted you:

Tek, for the possible distancing connection rofl mentions, and for yesterday's events, seems like a possibility for Rishi's partner.

vote: Tek

It seems like Tekkactus is trying to deflect the lynch away from Rishi's scum buddy (who is probably himself).
The fact that he tried using Iceman's previous posts to support this proposal (wrongly) is also scummy. Here's why:
I think Tekkactus was trying to put IcemanE in the picture so just in case Tek was called out on the statement IcemanE would be there to deflect on.

Rofl says "Oh ok I change my mind farside is obv town now and Tekk is obv scum". Why? Because my second post of the game I point out that Rishi did something off. DIVERGENT THEORIES ARE SCUM THEORIES GAIZ.

This train of logic is grasping and barely sensible, yet it's already garnered me 2 votes and 2 FoSes.

What are these "yesterday's actions" that Muffin and IcemanE bring up, again?

That I was distancing myself from farside? Apparently I have two scum buddies now, that's brilliant.

This reaction reeks of scum. It's OK to be indignant but stooping down to this negative level does not give me a town vibe.
Caps: He's calling Rofl's theory a scum theory(as in calling the theory made by scum). OMGUSy.
Bolded: I don't recall them actually saying that. Putting words into their mouths to discredit them? I think so.

More thoughts to come later; I just wanted to comment on the recent events.

[Dattebayo]

Regardless, as IcemanE said, it's in town's best interest to be looking for a Goon today, because crosskills help town.

You make it sound like Iceman was saying it's in the town's best interest to keep the remaining wolf alive, which is *not* what he said.

Let's try quoting the

whole

paragraph this time.

2. @ the town: Do you think it's a better idea to try to hunt down Rishi's partner today to

get rid of one scumteam, or to try to find the other - the reason I ask is because, like we saw last night, there's the possibility for a crosskill with both teams alive

. Personally I think we should just kill whoever seems scummiest regardless of what we think their faction is, but I'm curious what you all think.

Bolded the part that I was actually talking about.

IcemanE advocated for going after whoever was scummiest. The bolded (yours) phrase was inside a question for the town to answer. It did not display his personal thoughts.

Let's try quoting the whole paragraph this time.

2. @ the town: Do you think it's a better idea to try to hunt down Rishi's partner today to get rid of one scumteam, or to try to find the other - the reason I ask is because, like we saw last night, there's the possibility for a crosskill with both teams alive. Personally I think we should just kill whoever seems scummiest regardless of what we think their faction is, but I'm curious what you all think.

I did quote the whole paragraph.

2. @ the town: Do you think it's a better idea to try to hunt down Rishi's partner today to get rid of one scumteam, or to try to find the other - the reason I ask is because, like we saw last night, there's the possibility for a crosskill with both teams alive. Personally I think we should just kill whoever seems scummiest regardless of what we think their faction is, but I'm curious what you all think.

Caps: The Caps Lock bit was sarcastically pointing out the fact that rofl thinks I'm scum solely because I was suspicious of Rishi when everyone else was attacking farside. Not what you claimed it was saying.

Sorry, I misinterpretted what you said.

Bolded: I don't recall them actually saying that. Putting words into their mouths to discredit them? I think so.

Bolded: Go read page 11 please. Spreading outright false information? I think so.

It seems I was wrong, but the point still stands because you were assuming that they were accusing you of the same actions today as they were yesterday. Those "yesterday's actions" could be referring to any of those actions you did yesterday, yet you chose to characterize the point in the way that would make it look like bad reasoning:

What are these "yesterday's actions" that Muffin and IcemanE bring up, again? That I was distancing myself from farside? Apparently I have two scum buddies now, that's brilliant.

[Dattebayo]

You're still reaching. At one point in time you liked this. You went as far as to say I had a good point and now you're going back on your word. Which is it? Either I'm contributing usefully or I'm not. It can't be one or the other when it suits your whims.

You seem to have a personal problem with me and it's effecting your judgement.

I thought you had a point, but I did a read through again and felt differently. It happens to everyone.
On a side note I have no issue with you or problem. I don't have tunnel vision in any game I've played whether scum or town. I don't know why but some of what you say just feels off to me.
Iceman. I try and respond at least once a day. I don't think asking me to come in every time to respond to a question is fair. I'm doing the best I can with my once a day comments and if I have time I try and say more.
I will go back and do a reread I just don't have time today. Expect more tomorrow.

"just felt off" is still not a valid reason to suspect somebody, and if you can't explain what about it made it feel off to you i certainly don't see why anyone else would believe you have a legitimate case against him let alone vote for him with you.

its nothing personal when i say that farside needs to be lynched immediately.

While Farside has been acting scummy, an immediate lynch is a suggestion I think a scum player rushing into the night would say.

FoS: Roflcopter

You're taking this the wrong way again, rofl. I didn't say your contribution was low, I wanted to say that consecutively short replies may cause low contribution. I may have been unclear, though, sorry.

Korts downgraded his attack on Roflcopter and backtracked. Let’s take a look back at what he said a few posts ago:

One-liners aren't all that scummy by themselves (hence weak scumtells), but consecutively short replies

mean low contribution

, which doesn't really help.

Okay, since a simple readthrough didn't give me anything new, I'm going to do a PBPA on the two leading wagons. So farside and dcorbe, beware. I'll have time for one tomorrow, probably. The other, maybe Sunday, but more likely Monday.

Making a PBPA on the two leading wagons doesn’t make much sense to me. Points have already been brought up on them, so I don’t see how this could have helped much. It seems like Korts is again just making a PBPA for the sake of making a PBPA.

Hey. I've caught up. A whole lot of pointing at farside and her lynch seems inevitable. I think Korts posted a great PBPA on farside, though I'm unsure about one thing. He says that the weak scumtells add up to a lynch, and yet he doesn't vote for her? Why is he afraid to drop the hammer?

This is a good point.

I don't find this back-and-forth between dcorbe and icemanE productive at all. There seems to be very little substance to their arguments.

Agreed.

farside - ??? (perhaps Rishi for lurking and almost no contribution thus far)

WTF?

You really think I'm worse than Mr. Blonde, Celebloki or Surye in terms of lack of contribution?

Are you even reading the thread? Maybe you should post less and actually pay attention.

While the content in this post is true, it’s “WTF?” tone is negative and seems to be an overreaction. The fact that it’s in response to Iceman makes me think that he is not Rishi’s buddy.

Ok once again ive had a look over the game escpically the farside wagon which started from this comment below

Not having an avatar is a scum tell now?

I guess all the newbies here are in bad shape then!

@Mr. Blonde: curious why me not voting deserves scrutiny.

Someone needs to join a newbie game me thinks.

unvote:
vote: dcorbe

Now I understand how this caused a wagon due to the fact that farsides vote was based on the fact he doesnt doesnt have an aviatar which has nothing to do with this game.

then people decide they vote him for a wagon

dcorbe wagon is being ridden by scum, methinks

As such,

unvote, vote: farside

.

Oh well... let's put some bandwagon moving:

unvote
vote farside22

its seven to lynch.

farside has four votes so far.

My vote is safe, even if the deadline hits, because the four votes put her over the top in case of a deadline.

Vote: Farside

Grimmy
see ya monday

Now surly we cant lynch farside based on that one scummy post. Yet i see posts like this

thats pretty fatalistic. i still think farside's the right play.

@rofl- do you want farside lynched based on that one post? If not then plz explain.

Your misrepresenting the Farside wagon here, it wasn’t originally intended as a lynch just a wagon for pressure. Mr. Blonde stated that he wanted the bandwagon moving, not that he wanted a lynch. And, Grimmy made sure that his vote wouldn’t bring Farside to a lynch.
By the time it was widely agreed that Farside was a good lynch, there was more than just 1 reason.

Ok im back now with plenty of time. Im currently happy with a blond lynch as he isnt a big loss.

vote mr blond

Justifying a lynch with "he isn't a big loss" is scummy. You should want to lynch him because you think he's scum not because he isn't a big loss. Actually this is quite weird, because it seems like your pre-justifying a mislynch.

FoS: muffinhead

To sum it up orginally it was a pressure vote but if he doesnt respond in 48 hours then im happy to lynch him. That is why I responded rishi and if you had a look then I said no one should put the final vote on him untill he responds.

I highly doubt that was a pressure vote since in the quote above the one above this text you included the phrase I’m currently happy with a blond lynch. It seems that vote was intended for a lynch.

FoS: Muffinhead

Now that my reread analysis is done, I have my scum list put together.
1) Tekkactus- Roflcopter pointed out that he could have been distancing from Rishi and I've seen what I think is Rishi coaching Tekkactus. I've already pointed out what I find suspicious about him today.
2) Korts/Muffinhead- Korts seemed to only "scumhunt" in order to look like he was scum hunting. Muffinhead misrepresented some aspects of the early farside wagon and had an unusual position on the Mr. Blonde wagon.
3) Farside- for her early day 1 actions. I don't think she played scummily after that though.
4) Rofl- He seemed to eager and hasty when it came to the Farside wagon.

[Dattebayo]

interesting that you totally left all of the lurkers off of your scum list, datte. i don't think its because you're scum with any of them, since you're obviously town, but it is a fresh example of why lurking shouldn't be tolerated. they were such nonentities in your reread that you didn't even form an opinion about them.

Lurking doesn't equate to scum. While it is anti-town, townies can end up doing so. I doubt I'll have a solid read on them until later in the game when there is more substance to analyze. That is unless they decide to ask for a replacement or post more.

[Dattebayo]

Vote Tekkactus

I forgot.

[Dattebayo]

Tekkactus, what's your scum list.

[Dattebayo]

Now as for scum hunting I suggest we look for the 2nd werewolf. I really doubt that its tek because as I already mentioned he rv rishi and it is extremely rare from newbie scums to vote there own partner.

I disagree that it's rare; it could quite easily be distancing. Also I'm not sure that Tek is a newbie.

Im also doubting that ks is scum because this is the 3rd time ive played with him and every single time he just lurks and post nothing. Im assuming that we would see a change in attitude from him.

I don't see how that makes you doubt he's scum. From my perspective, it seems like a null tell.

So that leaves us down to just 2 people to possibly be rishis partner. Surye and grimmy. Neither of them have posted much whatsoever and have contributed nothing towards discussion. I could lynch either one of them. At this stage I want surye lynched purly because ive seen grimmy lurk and turn out town in another game while its totally uncharacterisitc for surye to do such a thing.

I would like to hear everyones oponion of these 2 and which one they prefer to lynch.

I don't really like your logic on how you narrowed it down to them, so neither. I also don't like how you suggested that we only go after Rishi's partner.

Right now, my top 3 are...

Rofl, for the reasons stated,
Killa 7, for his lurkiness combined with that preemptive hammer yesterday,
and Grimmy, for being active in the thread without having actually contributing anything. Additionally, he's defended numbers one and two by using meta-reasoning, which I got blasted for on D1.

Yet your not voting any of them...

[Dattebayo]

I tend not to vote unless I'm certain I'm making the right decision. If rofl's excessive haste and K7's inability to post anything longer than 5 words can be written off as null tells due to meta then calling me out on playstyle just makes you look hypocritical.

I never wrote off rofl's excessive haste. And your accusation would have ony been fair had I know your playstyle, which I don't.

[Dattebayo]

It's ironic how we lynched Tek on the basis that we thought he was Rishi's scum buddy, but now he seems to be signaling to his buddy.

[Dattebayo]

All that catching up only to live for one more day...
BAH11111111ONE11111111111!!!!!!1!!!!!!!!111!!!!!!!!