Mini Normal 2166 | Dog Show Champions | Game Over

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Nero Cain
We’re going to 1v1, let’s get it out of the way now

[Gamma Emerald]

I would have agreed with that until that coalition game

[Gamma Emerald]

help. i don't know which 1v1 to pick a side on

Why stick to one?

[Gamma Emerald]

Lol you tried to pick a side and created a brand new 1v1

[Gamma Emerald]

because that's the side i've chosen. it's the scummiest side

Okay how tho

I was okay with you voting me but saying my side is “the scummiest” is a massive reach

[Gamma Emerald]

I would have agreed with that until that coalition game

I don't really remember that game. I assume that I scum read you though and voted you (as I often do.) Is that why you voted me? You thought we'd inevitably get into it and you preemptively voted me? Or did you just not want to be in a game with me so you want to 1v1 so you'll either be dead or I'll be dead and you can go on playing without me? If its the later then why even sign up to a game I'm in? But neither of those scenerios make you look real great.

Well, we were both scum in that game, and you were in a hydra. I pushed posts made by you and your hydra partner and I got heated until I realized the posts were yours
Which technically the thing that always happens should be that I scumread you but it was more fun to say it the way I did

I don’t actually dislike playing with you, I just know that I need to hard check any sort of distrust I have of you because I believe at this point I do it as some sort of subconscious reaction to your style of play

[Gamma Emerald]

jokes are funny.

Hrm
I know you were the backup for that 2fold 2d3 game, but I have 0 idea whether this is remotely important even given that
But like, Hiraki iirc said this in response to Menalque, and iirc you and Menalque are pals

[Gamma Emerald]

mizzy can be my first townlean

I’m okay supporting this read

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: echovision
Serious vote of my own.

[Gamma Emerald]

Well, we were both scum in that game, and you were in a hydra. I pushed posts made by you and your hydra partner and I got heated until I realized the posts were yours

oh, that game. I vaguely remember you being under a decent amount of suspicion and me, not so much. So you distanced from our slot as either a game strategy or as an attempt to make yourself look better. I also remember you as scum in another game that brought that game (coalition) as some form of proof for why you always find me scummy or something.

We’re going to 1v1, let’s get it out of the way now

I would have agreed with
that until that coalition game

So you are basically arguing the same thing here, no? Did you vote me so when I called bullshit on you you could argue that I'm "OMGUS" scum reading you? b/c that's what it sorta seems like.

My memory is I pushed you to try to look townier but it ended up being a super helpful distancing play because everyone ended up thinking I wouldn't do that sort of tunnel to a scumbuddy. And in that other game (the 40p D&D theme game) I did use it as a way to try to deflect your read on me, but here I just felt like making a joke about it. I think the fact you're picking up these sorts of things is actually a point in favor of you being town rn.

[Gamma Emerald]

Ok, NOW I feel like tris should be voted. ^^

VOTE: tris

yeah me too
VOTE: tris

is there a reason you've posted the same vote 4 times???? It's not like the mod is missing it

[Gamma Emerald]

Well, we were both scum in that game, and you were in a hydra. I pushed posts made by you and your hydra partner and I got heated until I realized the posts were yours

oh, that game. I vaguely remember you being under a decent amount of suspicion and me, not so much. So you distanced from our slot as either a game strategy or as an attempt to make yourself look better. I also remember you as scum in another game that brought that game (coalition) as some form of proof for why you always find me scummy or something.

We’re going to 1v1, let’s get it out of the way now

I would have agreed with
that until that coalition game

So you are basically arguing the same thing here, no? Did you vote me so when I called bullshit on you you could argue that I'm "OMGUS" scum reading you? b/c that's what it sorta seems like.

My memory is I pushed you to try to look townier but it ended up being a super helpful distancing play because everyone ended up thinking I wouldn't do that sort of tunnel to a scumbuddy. And in that other game (the 40p D&D theme game) I did use it as a way to try to deflect your read on me, but here I just felt like making a joke about it. I think the fact you're picking up these sorts of things is actually a point in favor of you being town rn.

It was a joke? I find that surprising.

Why would Nero be less likely to make such observations as scum?

I think he's thinking harder about it, which points to being town
like scum probably posts something similar but without the thought of it showing

[Gamma Emerald]

but here I just felt like making a joke about it.

11 sorta makes me think this wasn't a joke.

but also

VOTE: echovision
Serious vote of my own.

you aren't using your words so either you are scum that's pretending like they are doing things by throwing down a forceful naked vote or you are massively unhelpful town.

I was joking about it because I wanted to move past it
And like, I was trying to pressure EV to not be rando but that didn't work it seems
still feel like voting there since I don't really know why EV is doing what he's doing and it's not a thing that I can see waved away by a "weird =/= scum" line

[Gamma Emerald]

^Does Iconeum usually lurk as scum? Or is that just a general lurkadurp scumread?

I think I just had a game with scum him where he was rather quiet until pressed on it
He says he has weekend V/LA but it's not the weekend so that's not an excuse rn

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Iconeum
I'll walk alongside you on that

[Gamma Emerald]

^Does Iconeum usually lurk as scum? Or is that just a general lurkadurp scumread?

I think I just had a game with scum him where he was rather quiet until pressed on it
He says he has weekend V/LA but it's not the weekend so that's not an excuse rn

which game was that?

i do have standing weekend vla's, but that's only saturday and sundays

i'm so ashamed...

Kids With Lungs
Feel free to call me a stinky dodo brain if I mixed up your alignment

[Gamma Emerald]

but here I just felt like making a joke about it.

11 sorta makes me think this wasn't a joke.

but also

VOTE: echovision
Serious vote of my own.

you aren't using your words so either you are scum that's pretending like they are doing things by throwing down a forceful naked vote or you are massively unhelpful town.

I was joking about it because I wanted to move past it
And like, I was trying to pressure EV to not be rando but that didn't work it seems
still feel like voting there since I don't really know why EV is doing what he's doing and it's not a thing that I can see waved away by a "weird =/= scum" line

if i start out by playing like a dip shit then i don't have to explain myself to people which is significantly less work for me and it's so fantastic
i can just read the thread and have some fun by extending my self-rvs until i find something to bite on

Or we can vote you out for deliberately obfuscating your motives

[Gamma Emerald]

bump

kekekeke

[Gamma Emerald]

I didn’t plan that but I’m laughing that it happened

[Gamma Emerald]

^Does Iconeum usually lurk as scum? Or is that just a general lurkadurp scumread?

I think I just had a game with scum him where he was rather quiet until pressed on it
He says he has weekend V/LA but it's not the weekend so that's not an excuse rn

which game was that?

i do have standing weekend vla's, but that's only saturday and sundays

i'm so ashamed...

Kids With Lungs
Feel free to call me a stinky dodo brain if I mixed up your alignment

oh right! yeah i was scum with the magical bear

but i quickly glanced at that game and I saw that I had the second most posts in that game, number 1 being my scum buddy
ofcourse that doesn't really cover your point of being silent until pressed on, but I also don't think it compares like this game where I was just… not here?

I remember you didn’t post much D1 or D2 there until pressed

[Gamma Emerald]

alchemist otoh uses logic like the one VP used to defend his buddy npow - yeah i scumread that

May I see the context for this?

[Gamma Emerald]

ofcourse that doesn't really cover your point of being silent until pressed on

shouldn't this be like a huge red flag for Gamma?

How tbh

[Gamma Emerald]

echo you could answer the question i asked you about your reads

i could if i had a reason
idk if there's three or four scum with this player count so let's go for 3, that's 3/12 scum
that's 9/12 town
there's a 75% chance that the two i named town are town and those are some pretty good odds

Seeing as the game is 12 people, I think it’s extremely unlikely we have 4 scum
I’m kinda leaning this as a townslip, does anyone know if zany speculation like this is common from EV?
UNVOTE:

[Gamma Emerald]

Scum would know the amount of scum right? I only really expect that to come from scum!EV if he posts a lot of things like that, which is why I asked

[Gamma Emerald]

What if he's just scum thats intentionly trying to act dumb?

Also there are only 2 scum but thats besides the point. Not really a fan of Gamma's language here...as a 2016 join date

he should know that 4 scum s virtually impossible

.

Does the bolded refer to me or EV?

[Gamma Emerald]

Well, in my case I was arguing against it being 4 scum, so you’re straight up misinterpreting me. As for EV, I had a game where I stubbornly thought miller was a role scum could have in a normal. So maybe EV just never thought about how he numbers would work for that?

[Gamma Emerald]

Am I really though?

Not really a fan of Gamma's language here

I think it’s

extremely unlikely

we have 4 scum

the above isn't exactly strong criticism of EV. Its not "extremely unlikely" its impossible. Me having a diffrent interpretation of what you said or meant to say isn't a misrep but nice use of buzzword placement.

I did not call it a misrep, I said you misinterpreted me. There are setups with 12 players that have 4 scum, or at least one to my knowledge, but it’s an open setup with specific mechanics that supposedly balance it. As such a 12p with 4 scum would likely need to be absolutely loaded with town power, to the point it’s hard to envision that being the case in a normal. I don’t see it as impossible, just an extremely infinitesimal possibility.
And to talk on how “misinterpret” is different from “misrep”. I view misinterpreting as taking what is said an RC getting the wrong idea from it. A misrep meanwhile is full on pushing an idea or narrative that is built off of faulty perceptions or scum motivation. I believe most, if not all, town misreps come from misinterpretation, however that chain of action isn’t guaranteed.

[Gamma Emerald]

ofcourse that doesn't really cover your point of being silent until pressed on

shouldn't this be like a huge red flag for Gamma?

How tbh

Well, I mean you hitched your horse to the Ico wagon by claiming that you were in a scum game

where he was rather quiet until pressed on it

but thats aparently not entirely true

but i quickly glanced at that game and I saw that I had the second most posts in that game,

now ofc Ico could lie and its also possible that he could have gotten ran up and posted it up but when he says he was the 2nd highest poster in the game that seemingly contridicts that he was "ather quiet until pressed on it", no?

Except I’ve been open about not being 100% confident about it? Like I straight up invited him to call me out. Seems a bit outside of how you’re viewing the situation.

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Iconeum
I just realized I unvoted after having voted someone that wasn’t EV, so I’m putting that back

[Gamma Emerald]

you did use the word misinterpret and not misrep. My bad but if your evidence of a 12 player with 4 scum in it is an open and this is a normal....I mean does that really make that much sense to you?

Well, what I am doing is extrapolating the means used to balance that setup, as a way to think about how to balance a closed 12p with normal mechanics and roles. My conclusion is while there’s no proof it’s impossible as of right now, it is severely improbable. So I think it does make sense in the way I’m using it.
And I’m not 1v1 on Iconeum, I’m just putting my vote back after I took it off by mistake.

[Gamma Emerald]

I don’t only vote if I’m highly confident about a read. That’s the common course on my homesite, but I’ve played so much here vs. over there that I’m more inclined to apply my vote in aims of sorting people.

[Gamma Emerald]

Anybody think Echo is leaning on their playstyle here to avoid actually scumhunting

Liking Nero here this Gamma push is good

Have any reads that don’t just look like parroting others?

[Gamma Emerald]

Anybody think Echo is leaning on their playstyle here to avoid actually scumhunting

Liking Nero here this Gamma push is good

Have any reads that don’t just look like parroting others?

You're only pulling this out because you're mad I'm agreeing with Nero

So I actually like Datisi for his awareness of that.

Are we really keeping it this simple?

This early yeah

No, it’s the fact you have not expressed much reads of your own up to now it seems. The EV push is pretty popular and you’ve only stood behind Nero when it comes to pushing me

[Gamma Emerald]

I really dislike that Gamma immediately attacked me when I said that I agreed with Nero's push on him

Nope. I know you commented on that at least once

[Gamma Emerald]

I don’t only vote if I’m highly confident about a read. That’s the common course on my homesite, but I’ve played so much here vs. over there that I’m more inclined to apply my vote in aims of sorting people.

Ok but is there a reason you’re still choosing Ico at this point?

I don’t feel like my concerns have been fully addressed
Icon also started posting in Kids With Lungs in response to pressure D2, so I don’t think becoming more active in response to pressure here is particularly Town-indicative. I think you probably took your vote off too early.

[Gamma Emerald]

I think part of what Im seeing from SC is a lack of actual towny drive. Like, when I agree wit JV someone as Town, I don’t just say “I agree with that” and leave it, I actually aim to develop the conversation with my own thoughts and analysis, seeking to expand the discussion with my own perspective. He’s not adding anything, he’s just stating reads, and the fact they’re reads others have expressed just make me trust it less.

[Gamma Emerald]

I’ll contribute in a bit, just need something else to get dealt with

[Gamma Emerald]

I do have one question, though
SirCakez, what do you make of how I’ve used my vote up to now?

[Gamma Emerald]

I do have one question, though
SirCakez, what do you make of how I’ve used my vote up to now?

Fine? It's sitting on ico which is whatever.

Really? Honestly I’d expect deeper commentary from you about it.

[Gamma Emerald]

datisi do you

actually

think i'm scum, or do you just think i'm a good d1 kill

i feel like my wagon is more based on the convenience of getting me out of the game than getting scum out of the game, i don't think i've been overwhelmingly scummy, moreso annoying and obnoxious to play with

which is fine, lynch how you please ladies and gents

What kind of hand wavey crap is this?
"People don't like my scummy and unhelpful playstyle and thus want to elim me"
Like no shit

no comment on anything else I had to say? don't want to contribute anything else to the conversation, just

echo

what I said? (incorrectly)

Yeah that’s exactly what SirCakez has been sounding like: an echo

[Gamma Emerald]

What are you expecting? I haven't written long dissections of stuff like that in ages.

I just thought since my voting is maybe comparable to how I voted in Cards of Destiny maybe you’d have input regarding that

[Gamma Emerald]

I don’t only vote if I’m highly confident about a read. That’s the common course on my homesite, but I’ve played so much here vs. over there that I’m more inclined to apply my vote in aims of sorting people.

Ok but is there a reason you’re still choosing Ico at this point?

I don’t feel like my concerns have been fully addressed
Icon also started posting in Kids With Lungs in response to pressure D2, so I don’t think becoming more active in response to pressure here is particularly Town-indicative. I think you probably took your vote off too early.

But the weren't even in the game yet! It's not lurking if you forgot about the game entirely! this is stupid

Why the hell are you ascribing details about where Iconeum has been? Who said he forgot about the game? No one, that’s who.

[Gamma Emerald]

But the weren't even in the game yet! It's not lurking if you forgot about the game entirely! this is stupid

yes Tris. Everything everyone says is 100% true and never a lie.

and even if he was telling the truth about forgetting about this game thats not exactly AI.

Or he said it

But yeah, doesn’t exactly cut away what I’m saying.

[Gamma Emerald]

cakez if

i

had something unique and interesting to say i'm sure you can come up with something
until then i'ma vibe
VOTE: sircakez

incoming: cakez saying, "omg i've been pushing you so hard all game and now you're voting me that's so scummy of you omg gfy"

i agree with SiroftheCakez that EV has been more active in general because of pressure, but i kinda disagree that it didn't get better
actually was liking EV posts some more lately, but the general conclusions still seem off. Mostly about what I quoted wrt datisi.

Don't like gamma. Keeps pushing me for not being here early game is... fishy.

I mostly just didn’t want to let you get off easy. Looks like your contributions are consistent so
UNVOTE:
I’m leaning towards voting SC but I’m not sure yet

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma, who are you townreading? Are you still town on Nero as in the beginning?

I still think Nero is town, and Alch kinda comes off as Town too

[Gamma Emerald]

As for my Ico vote being “unoriginal”, I may not have been to one to fire the first shot, but recall my point about building off what others have said with your own thoughts and opinions. I brought up the connection to the other game me and Iconeum were in. That’s a point that is uniquely mine.

[Gamma Emerald]

I disagree that Echo has really gotten better; I think he's actually started playing because of pressure

wow this is your first unique statement all game good shit brother man

No it’s not. I’m not in love with Cakez’ posts but saying he hasn’t said anything unique is just false.

This may be true, but even then he still hasn’t said near as much that seems like “his” ideas as things that just seem to parrot others.

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma hasn't really been talking about why he's getting voted and I don't really like it.

Don’t you not like it when I try to read off interactions others have with me? And like, I’ve refused to talk about some of the points you’ve brought against me because I felt like they weren’t actually bad points. Like, post 88 is a fair call to make, and why I think you’re Town.

[Gamma Emerald]

So I’ve been feeling a little concerned that maybe scum are playing it a little quiet, so I checked a few ISOs, and I don’t think I like what tris has brought to the game so far. Unah pointed out she was overexplaining things early, and I can see that throughout, but it also appears she’s doing it in a way that’s aiming to look like town behavior without really helping anything
VOTE: tris

[Gamma Emerald]

and Alch kinda comes off as Town too

Some insight what indicates Alchtown to you or just the vibes you are getting there?

I think Alch’s solving contributions so far are sufficient for what Is expect from Alchtown

The hell happened with Gamma's avatar? It went from creepy cute to... whatever it is now.

sunny happened

[Gamma Emerald]

I am not exactly impressed by your current impressions skitter

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: skitter

VOTE: skitter
Think she's trying to position herself tactically here

[Gamma Emerald]

I think now that the deliberately anti-town play stuff from Echo has settled down he's kinda towny tbh
Plus I still think even if it's not a full-on townslip the 4 scum thing is like so wacky I doubt it's a scumpost

[Gamma Emerald]

if i start out by playing like a dip shit then i don't have to explain myself to people which is significantly less work for me and it's so fantastic
i can just read the thread and have some fun by extending my self-rvs until i find something to bite on

I personally dislike the way this works, but I can understand the reasoning.
Just...try to actually make a difference wherever you can, or be burned by this tactic.
You might get too disconnected and pacified - guess that's the trade off?

Liking the stuff I’m seeing from Unah, this is a prime example

[Gamma Emerald]

i disagree with the assessment here, because survivalistic town would also not be making that vote. I'd argue that it's more scum!indicative then town, and that it gives + scum equity to the cw as scum are more likely to not be counter-voting on partners.

A) so the thing is that i fundementally dont believe survivalism to be a town-indicative trait, but it is fairly correlated with being scum imo

B) so yu're saying you see gamma/echo as svs? Or am i misunderstanding the second bit?

I believe that survivalism is a NAI trait. At least, I know I do that from both allignments. And from a basic thoughts level: town!gamma knows he's town, so his flip is Always 'the wrong one'. As for Echo, he can't know.

Yes, I think gamma not wanting to cross-vote is scum/scum indicative.

Or I don’t want to vote my townread? lolwut

[Gamma Emerald]

At this point I think we should at least bring skitter to E-1 because I think whoever opts to move there will be important for later

[Gamma Emerald]

why is skitter scum, gamma

I don’t think her reads coming in were genuine, they looked staged in order to push an agenda coming in

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma, are you going to be around @ deadline and will you hammer?

I should be

[Gamma Emerald]

How about you not ask empty questions

[Gamma Emerald]

Eh I think on second thought trying to wagon skitter with this little time is a recipe for disaster
PEdit: well I was gonna do that but okay

[Gamma Emerald]

nothing important but what if like una or test or someone comes around, wants to post here and can't b/c the thread is locked?


if Gamma refuses/refused to hammer echo b/c "omg my ton read!" Its pretty scummy. So it was a test of sorts.

lolwut
I’m scummy for sticking to my guns?

[Gamma Emerald]

Anyway, if skitter is scum I think datisi might be sus

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: skitter

[Gamma Emerald]

Why are you guys voting without words?

I'm just continuing my direction from d1

I would like to continue that dialogue about how refusing to vote EV made me scum for some godawful reason though

[Gamma Emerald]

There was still time though, unless you hadn't made that conclusion in full already, which was what I thought initially

[Gamma Emerald]

based on how skitter came in I'd guess some under the radar players, to throw out some names maybe unah and testa?

[Gamma Emerald]

Yea, that was a nice day end.
Didn't even realize we were so close to deadline then.

Gonna start this day by checking Datisi last reads - I feel like they were probably on the right track.

tbh I sus this post

[Gamma Emerald]

based on how skitter came in I'd guess some under the radar players, to throw out some names maybe unah and testa?

Why not Egix?

Unah and you were the first names I noticed on the d1 end VC that weren't hot button topics, I literally just gave 2 names that fit my proposed set of people

[Gamma Emerald]

I need to reread the whole sequence of exe shifting from Gamma to Echo tomorrow when I am sober, but I really dislike that exe. I think it started with tris switching votes. If Gamma is town that would imply she is pretty likely town too, as Gamma was at E-1 and Ico already requested a claim from Gamma. If he is scum... well I kind of think it was easy enough to pull something out of her fingers to paint Echo as the scummier one to justify switching votes sooner. Looks risky to stick to the bus so close to deadline. Need to reread when she was around, still think she is town though. Not sure about others yet.

Interesting is that with both flips the first major wagon (tris wagon) with votes by Cakez, Echo, Datisi and Una is half town with three votes on Echo as the second major wagon. Although the latter was mostly rvs. In my experience scum usually avoids the first major wagon and prefer to vote elsewhere, especially if it is a bait looking target like tris was at the beginning. So I would at least assume Una is probably more likely town by that, even more if tris would be scum.

The Alch wagon came up as response to tris vs Echo wagons and then again the second Echo wagon came up as response to the Alch wagon. Besides Cakez and Echo no one of the Alch wagon has been part of the tris or first Echo wagon. Although there was also the attempt of the Ico wagon by Alch/Gamma.

Taking a look at the second Echo wagon I am the most wary of Alch, Egix and skitter there. I disliked skitter's hesitance about flashwagoning Alch, when she thought Echo and Gamma were both town (she was, wasn't she?). Alch was either voting town or doing that weak Ico push which I didn't liked either. Egix was kind of just there. Not sure yet how many scum were on it. Usually I would assume just one, because Echo was such a exe bait too, but it kind of depends on Gamma's alignment too.

hmu with the upshot bcuz I don't particularly care to parse these blocks of text for your wagonomics

[Gamma Emerald]

Echo wagon seems more like a response to Gamma than Alch.

This is my read on it as well

[Gamma Emerald]

testa could you post a tl;dr on why you find Alch scummy, I tried to find what I thought of his ISo but I'm too tired to really focus in on reading it

[Gamma Emerald]

Skitter is pushing Alch but he doesn't give a shit.
Gamma got wagoned yesterday and never gave a shit.
Gamma is pushing Skitter but she mostly doesn't give a shit.

Are scum just like cross bussing and defending the snot out of Gamma here?

I would 100% do that if I were scum jsyk

[Gamma Emerald]

Why are you guys voting without words?

I’ve been told I’m a man of few words.

But seriously, I think Cakez is scum because he keeps hedging on slots and making soft pushes. Remember early game when he started to push me and just dropped it for no apparent reason? He was kinda everywhere with echo; I remember him calling echo out for backpedaling but at the end of the day was voting Gamma anyway.

not really in love with the Tris=town if Gamma is town. Kinda makes worry that its a tris/test team and she's trying to get her buddy town read by sacrificing a town Gamma.

but then I think Gamma is scum so...idk.

It’s the first thing from Testa I don’t really understand either. I’m Townreading Gamma and I don’t get how their alignments are necessarily tied.

@Testarossa, Do you usually play on Mafiascum or on another site?

I know that question seems random but I assure you it has relevance.

okay yeah I still haven't ISOed Alch for real but this re-affirms my TR on him
as scum Alch generally gives off more useless vibes imo, it's not a certainty but I've noticed it across a few games at a specific point
So despite not really being active, he's doing his best which makes him town

[Gamma Emerald]

what?

[Gamma Emerald]

echo

Spoiler: image inside

[Gamma Emerald]

ok

VOTE: nerooooooi jenkins

i don't know

nero was on datisi radar and datisi ded

i've got no idea

i'm starting here

I don’t like this
Your entrance today also pinged me

[Gamma Emerald]

OK, I'm fully caught up, but didn't feel like walling it because I already got spoiled during the start of the day.
I usually do those walls to show my progression as I'm reading, but this time around I'd already know what Datisi flipped, and therefore it wouldn't be an honest one.

I have a weird group of slots that all hit similar notes of awkward to me.
tris, NeroCain, Iconeum.

Out of the three, tris was my initial scumster-vote but has actually managed to claw their way upwards in my books.
Not necessarily because I'd agree with their reads or stances all the time, but because their tone feels at least a little more relaxed and genuine.
Still on my radar though.

Nero Cain has come up with some good observations so far, and based on their reads I'd townbin them for now.
But regarding their tone and..."vibe"? There's something there that still makes me feel uneasy.
So on the townier side, but not locked on him yet either.

Iconeum apparently tried to pull this weird agreement with me yesterday while I wasn't caught up to the point.
While I didn't townread them at that point, I didn't outright scumread them either.
But that "appeal" felt a little off to me. Could've been for goofs as well, but somehow I feel like they meant it.

So I take it tris Nero and Ico are varying shades of town for you?

[Gamma Emerald]

based on how skitter came in I'd guess some under the radar players, to throw out some names maybe unah and testa?

Yea, that was a nice day end.
Didn't even realize we were so close to deadline then.

Gonna start this day by checking Datisi last reads - I feel like they were probably on the right track.

tbh I sus this post

Was 725 no longer a factor for you when you wrote these? If so, why not?

It’s still kinda a factor, just not really as fresh on my mind or as weighty a point to me rn

[Gamma Emerald]

Yes. Also, my top two town rn are Icon and Nero.

huh

i don't think nero and myself are townreading each other that much

why are you?

For you it's mainly that I find this:

i agree with SiroftheCakez that EV has been more active in general because of pressure, but i kinda disagree that it didn't get better
actually was liking EV posts some more lately, but the general conclusions still seem off. Mostly about what I quoted wrt datisi.

... hard to see coming from scum given the context (you had been confbiasing strongly on Echo during your catchup that day).

for that? i don't see it. i townread iconeum for other reasons. namely, his interactions with una

It's just that, ime, scum don't normally show that much willingness to re-evaluate when tunnelling on people. They feel like they have to get that misyeet through.

Una, I think you mentioned somewhere that Alch and skitter slot are never scum together.

Yes, and that's literally all I'm saying.
I can actually see either of the two as

potential scumsters

- not necessarily my own scumreads as of right now though - but they are never scum together.
If one of them is scum - the other is town. Period.

Well that would explain this.

ooooh! but, is that true? there could be two scum in a neighborhood right?

Technically possible, but unlikely. Fwiw, when I was a neighbour in a normal game, the hood was 1S2T.

I actually think town are more stubborn

[Gamma Emerald]

"You're only pulling this out because you're mad I'm agreeing with Nero"
"you calling a post where I say a speedwagon on you is achievable "meh" kinda reeks."
"And you're just calling me scum because you know I'm right so you want to discredit me."

I'm seeing a pattern here.

What is that?

It's that you seem to be showing a "You're rustled because I'm on to you" mentality which I would normally associate with scum trying to look like town that's trying to intimidate the scum (because town usually don't really do that).

Do you think I'm wrong? I personally find it incriminating that Gamma and Una started attacking me as soon as I pushed in them.

I don't think I've pushed you much today just fyi

[Gamma Emerald]

if this was a 9/3 split and there are now 2 dead town we are at 7/3 so a lylo?

so maybe this was 10/2 after all and we are currently sitting @ 8/2. So worst case scenario we have two miselims left.

When I was going to assume that there were 3 scum when I realized the #'s don't make sense, I was going to say that we should be lynching outside of the hood b/c there'd be more scum outside of it but if there are only 2 scum then it matters not.

I still think Gamma and Ico are the scummiest but the skitter/NM slot is also pretty bad so I wouldn't mind going there.

8 players is the soonest mylo scenario assuming no roles that stop or add kills

[Gamma Emerald]

Do we wanna get stoopid on theorizing about this or nah
Because I’m willing and able

[Gamma Emerald]

Do we wanna get stoopid on theorizing about this or nah
Because I’m willing and able

well at least there'd be activity then

I think because of that specific clause and the hood having daytalk the mafia don’t have an encryptor, like if you were to expand the clause it would read “mafia don’t have daytalk

but the neighborhood does

”

[Gamma Emerald]

Nah. Cakez sus.

The fact we voted Cakez out following this has me wheezing

[Gamma Emerald]

I would have considered switching to Cakez, jsyk

[Gamma Emerald]

It’s also almost deadline. I think trying to suggest the hammer was unwelcome is a little sus

[Gamma Emerald]

Yeah, I didn’t really think that’s what you were trying to do either.

[Gamma Emerald]

How is that progression terrible?

[Gamma Emerald]

So I’m assuming we’re gonna massclaim today, how do we want to decide an order?

[Gamma Emerald]

MxLo potentially
Generally the best time to massclaim is ExLo-1/MxLo-1 but if it’s 3 scum we missed the boat on that

[Gamma Emerald]

That’s fine
Do you have a particular order in mind?

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm in a neighbourhood with Alchemist and Una

10 bucks says this is the scumteam lol

i'm about 55% serious

I did think of this when it was first claimed but I don't think it's the case beyond random paranoia

[Gamma Emerald]

Yea, no.
We are in a hood, the three of us.
So never N_M+Alch.
But I am leaning towards saying that one of them is scum.

I've been rather disconnected with this one from the get go, and I do feel sorry for that.
I guess I'll try and get back on it today.

why can't it be the both of them, hood content or just mechanical speculation?

[Gamma Emerald]

NM + gamma?

that quickhammer was so dirty, but it's also NM so…??!!??

it was also close to deadline, and iirc NM was the second highest wagon att

[Gamma Emerald]

Yea, while I used to like N_M

despite

their habit of trolling/lurking/coasting every game, I am now absolutely disliking them for trolling the game.
I feel like N_M should be lynched because of how that hammer went (again), and if they flip town I'm just going to blacklist them.

And no, we haven't had an active hood.

I just had a game with town!NM where he did literally nothing to help town in the 2 days he was alive. I think blacklisting is a bit extreme but if you stand by that you very well might have to do that in the end
I still think the slot is scum though due to skitter's content

[Gamma Emerald]

I don’t use neighbourhoods, they’re bad design, they’re just an arbitrary group of people that end up just getting poe lynched until you hit the scum in it, nothing useful ever happens in a neighbourhood unless it becomes a defacto masonry

this is honestly a fair thought process for most hoods, but I think the situation is different when you just have a 2 man hood, then it becomes a game of trying to 1 on 1 sort someone. Plus you have a lower chance of scum being in it from raw math and by design theory, where there's less reason to have a designated mole in a channel where it's only 2 people

[Gamma Emerald]

though I have to ask what your reads are both inside and outside your hood members since you're indicating at least some suspicion of your hoodmates

[Gamma Emerald]

a point of concern is why did the mizzy slot need so many replacement

i hate to play like this, but it's on my mind

skitter replaced due to rl circumstances most likely
everything before that is still within question

[Gamma Emerald]

yeah well

if i were a dayvig, i'd shoot gamma right now

it's not based on a ton of evidence, but i feel how he pushed me on D2 and then never came back around to me and now was trying to work with me somewhat at this daystart is... unnatural

I honestly don't recall pushing you that strongly D2? I think my key point of focus was skitter, with a side element of defending alchemist. You weren't really part of the group I suspected of being scum D2 though

or, translated to gamma language:

lol nice

[Gamma Emerald]

Since I'm technically the highest person on Ico's list who hasn't claimed (unless NM has more to his role) I'll go next.
I'm just a plain VT.

[Gamma Emerald]

I don't know how being modified will affect the solve/setup spec much, so I can't really say without a clearer concept of that

[Gamma Emerald]

tbh the only thing I see it impacting is investigation results on you working or not

[Gamma Emerald]

exactly

[Gamma Emerald]

who else was scumreading testa? I know I had her as potential scum, did anyone else?
I'm curious to see what their new reads end up being

[Gamma Emerald]

tbh I'm thinking we're unlikely to have 3 scum, the town power is super low still, neighborhood doesn't really ever do much for balance on its own

[Gamma Emerald]

If Ico is scum that means town has no mechanical method to put the game on evens, and with a confirmable town that like, horrendous setup design
Iconeum is never scum here.

[Gamma Emerald]

I meant take the game off of evens but the point still stands, mechanically it is extremely unreasonable to call Iconeum scum

[Gamma Emerald]

oh yeah that's true

[Gamma Emerald]

I heavily disagree with this Ico.
The likelihood of you hitting (the right) scum is low anyway.
I also just realized that tris claimed commuter. That's also a bad claim for scum to come up with in this scenario, so I'd argue that the role is genuine.
But the alignment might not be.

what would a scum commuter need to commute from?

[Gamma Emerald]

I think scum Commuter doesn't really fit into this game. It weakens the already gated Cop and makes, if two scum, the Watcher rather misleading/useless.

I think the way tris claimed looks pretty fine. While not revealing her modifier she even claimed that she commuted last night, when only half the massclaim was done. So there was a risk that she might have gotten caught by pr interaction. Don't think she is scum fakeclaiming Commuter.

Had a strong townread since the beginning on her anyway, which never really changed.

fuck I managed to forget both SC and datisi flipped PRs
I STILL think Ico's claim is too minute to be a legitimate attempt to fakeclaim a PR as scum. 1 shot JK is super pitiful, scum would go for the full deal, or at least something like odd night to fit datisi's flip
but there's ALSO the fact SC flipped personal, and Ico is like the only remaining visiting role left. Maybe ico is like, gated Rb of some sort?

I think I just made myself very LESS certain of Ico's town status.

[Gamma Emerald]

In that case though, all the personal watcher can do is see town PRs. That doesn’t seem like a good role.

[Gamma Emerald]

That’s a good point, but what do you think scum would have with such an underpowered town?

[Gamma Emerald]

I was thinking if Mafia have no PRs the personal watcher wouldn’t be able to anything scum did, only town

[Gamma Emerald]

I think me returning is okay based on the rules, I tried to give NPOM a good chance to review the rules he has and he gave me the all-clear. I repped back in because I didn't want to have the slot stay unfilled for a bunch of time, don't try to read into it

[Gamma Emerald]

Vote Count 3.03

With 8 alive it takes 5 to eliminate

Votecount:
Alchemist21(5): Not_Mafia, tris, Testarossa, Egix96, UnabombaH(ELIMINATION)
Not Voting(3): Gamma Emerald, Alchemist21, Iconeum

Alchemist21 has been eliminated. He was a

mafia neighbor

.

It is now night 3, which ends in (expired on 2020-10-15 08:51:32). Please PM me any night actions.

Mod note: Gamma Emerald has requested replacement.

so fmpov all the scum had to have bussed here. I should probably figure out who it is.

[Gamma Emerald]

Huh, not really what I was expecting. Kind of bizarre kill.

Ico was still a viable mis-exe. So scum was afraid he might clear a townie or guilty them if he still had his shot. Kind of indicates that scum doesn't really feel confident here to cast doubt on Ico or take on the people that townread him.

Kill looks weird for tris, because it breaks the Ico/tris pool apart. Tbh I think she just kills Una as scum? Weird for Gamma/Egix too though, but I figure it can make sense if they are too afraid of taking on Ico?

My best guess is it means scum are probably at one left and don't want to get blocked?
I think I agree that tris is town based on what I remember of interactions with Alch

[Gamma Emerald]

I think scum!tris definitely doesn’t kill Ico because the commuter claim would disincentivize targeting her with the jk, on top of it casting shade on her
VOTE: Egix
I think the vote should really be this or me at this point

[Gamma Emerald]

Yea.. But how about the setup now that we know Icos claim was true?

What about it?

[Gamma Emerald]

Yes

[Gamma Emerald]

However I think tris can claim her modifier, after all there is zero chance she ends up as nk at this point of the game.

i was 1-shot as well

I also noticed that Egix never handed out any read on Alch while Alch also always remained indecisive there. Generally Alch/Egix interactions felt very trivial/artificial, that never really lead anywhere.

yeah, this was something i was noticing even yesterday

This kinda gives me pause, it kinda seems like the point would be to evade an investigation
but, like, even if it is tris I don't think it's her as the only scum, so egix still feels like the right vote to me
But I'm also quite bothered by NM refusing to vote egix, that looks sus as hell

[Gamma Emerald]

That would be fair if you were clearer on it

[Gamma Emerald]

that's at least passable
could you tell me either why you think I'm sdcum or why you think Egix is town? you don't need to be "clear", in fact a riddle would even be acceptable, as long as you say something on the matter

[Gamma Emerald]

I think I've seen that one before but I can't remember the answer rn, and I struggle to see how the answer would answer my own question

[Gamma Emerald]

Then give one that does.

[Gamma Emerald]

Okay, then consider this strike two.

[Gamma Emerald]

We should not be letting a no elim happen probably

[Gamma Emerald]

I’d really prefer to avoid a no elim today if at all possible
I won’t self vote to avoid it though

[Gamma Emerald]

Unless the scumteam is tris + another neighbor I don’t think we lose here
Una and NM would have hammered sooner if they were scum together

[Gamma Emerald]

Yeah that would be super weird

[Gamma Emerald]

Alch flipped scum neighbor

[Gamma Emerald]

I think the biggest spanner-in-the-works there is the inconsistency of day talk