Mini Normal 2183 | Innocent Things | Game Over!

[unwnd]

VOTE: TheFuzzyLogic99

Expecting a lot of fuzzy logic from you, and maybe 99

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Not_Mafia doesn't troll anyone but himself on a daily basis.

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If anyone is familiar with Johnny they should tell me if his behavior is indicative of anything

Right now his questions seem preemptive that gives me pause

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Yeah the vibe of the Room still feels sunk into RVS, and I thought you were gonna lead us out of it

Yet you relented

[unwnd]

Eh. It's a lot of effort to end rvs before everyone's posted because people love this bullshit. So I'll be playing Frere Jaques on a rainbow xylophone until a few more people have checked in

I'm just surprised you gave up, around p1 it seemed like people were earnestly responding to you and now you're a musician lol

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I don't disagree with anything you said yet you seem reflexively willing to entertain joke behavior reminiscent of RVS

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God that makes sounds like I have a huge stick in my ass

I can be wacky zany crazy and cool too

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So you were relenting because you were afraid you'd be misinterpreted? I've played with FL / Dunn / Titus, with FL / Dunn being more recent

[unwnd]

Didn't seem like much of anything, Dunn's tells happen later in the game, he's not privy to action even if you poke him

My interpretation of your actions in laymen's terms is that you seem a bit anxious but im not sure if its town/scum anxiousness yet

[unwnd]

Would you consider yourself a viable target then? As in, someone scum would push in order to lim quick

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Cool but don't do that again thanks

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Johnny's behavior seems trained in the sense that he can't help himself regardless of alignment. I see the conclusions you're making shelly but ultimately I felt like I didn't have much a lead

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I hate to this say this but that's just how Dunn is lol

[unwnd]

Pointedly self-assured and unwilling to compromise for his own ideals

It's only scum when he breaks that mold in ways that give him thread brownie points

[unwnd]

Pointedly self-assured and unwilling to compromise for his own ideals

When did I ever do this here?
People are attributing things to me that didn't happen

That was meta of other towngames, I think my read on you has been pretty good throughout

Don't think there has been many (if at all) games I misread you. Leading the way you did above me though is a bit new

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I hugely disagree with that having been his mate

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Entertain me on this prospect, I'm open to differing perspective

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Feel like in the last game we played together your ferocity was a means of baiting people into arguments for the benefit of reading them further. I was someone who became victim to this, but if you reveal your hand too early then I don't know how Dunn is supposed to feel the pressure

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Unfortunately I think the people who have posted thus far don't really interest me, which is a bit of an uncomfortable feeling

[unwnd]

Pointedly self-assured and unwilling to compromise for his own ideals

It's only scum when he breaks that mold in ways that give him thread brownie points

This isn't how he's acting at all and it's weird how you're defending him with it.

Maybe not exclusively but I think there are silver linings in the way he's presented his arguments thus far that make my statement true

Even then, it was a metaread as I told Dunn

[unwnd]

I think right now I have suspension of disbelief with some of the arguments being said. You have a lot of them seeped into essentially good faith (just trust me bro vibes) but that seems pretty par for the course early on. I find Dunn null despite my defense of him, and maybe tilted my head just a little bit when he made p#105. The problem with nopoint I have is that he is arguing with the same process he is. It reads to me like a potential scum who didn't have prior thoughts so they just defaulted to turning the original argument against his attacker

VOTE: nopointcatchingup

[unwnd]

why would you defend a null

It's the same reason I'd defend any friend in a game honestly, I have history with Dunn and I don't think anything he's done is worth incriminating, therefore if bad arguments come towards him I am willing to give my two cents

[unwnd]

The problem with nopoint I have is that he is arguing with the same process he is. It reads to me like a potential scum who didn't have prior thoughts so they just defaulted to turning the original argument against his attacker

can you phrase this another way because I don't get what you're saying here

Yeah sorry it's a bit late. We're not very far into this game. There's no one who's gonna make a case or have all this incriminating evidence. It's fine to just bullshit a bit of your reads just to see what sticks, because I certainly do the same thing too. When I looked at the way Dunn/Nopoint were fighting, it wasn't that I felt Dunn was making riveting points, rather than he seem convinced of them. Nopoint on the other hand just pretty acted in the same way, but didn't seem to care about why Dunn was convinced in the first place, which in turn led into me dropping my points on his meta

Is that more understandable

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IMO I'm not thinking that hard into it yet, which is why I was like 'nothing interests me.' Trying to read into who has the informed POV right now when the game is again just starting and feels barren seems like just leading yourself into a trap

I usuallyread based on tone, then my logic follows that and I fill the spaces in-between. I think tonally Nopoint's aggression seemed misplaced

[unwnd]

Pointedly self-assured and unwilling to compromise for his own ideals

It's only scum when he breaks that mold in ways that give him thread brownie points

Can anyone back this up? Because I don't like the last part here

IMO I'm not thinking that hard into it yet, which is why I was like 'nothing interests me.' Trying to read into who has the informed POV right now when the game is again just starting and feels barren seems like just leading yourself into a trap

I usuallyread based on tone, then my logic follows that and I fill the spaces in-between. I think tonally Nopoint's aggression seemed misplaced

quote

specific

posts that lead you to think this?

johnny im like ever-so-slightly better on because i think effort is AI for johnny

I'm not changing the way i give my reads just because you asked me to lol

[unwnd]

?????????

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Were those game scumgames? I understand your ego in that regard

[unwnd]

I think he has an insatiable ego and any attempts to reason with him are usually just ignored

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Absolutely not, but rest assured I ran into headaches attempting to do in the last game we played, which in turn made me feel foolish

I'm not really down to that again, so I am hesitant on preemptive judgment of what is transparent anti-town play

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Were those game scumgames? I understand your ego in that regard

I just won a town game with you, dude.

I know that and I just explained why I'm hesitant about your anti-townness

I feel like it's something you maintain because you want to have excuses for when you finally roll scum

Is that wrong?

[unwnd]

I want you to disassociate from yourself even if it's just to humor me and give your takes on Shelly's behavior towards you

If you're recalling Xeno, you had a strong take on Noraa that I initially didn't see cause I felt you were picking on someone lesser than you

[unwnd]

I want you to disassociate from yourself even if it's just to humor me and give your takes on Shelly's behavior towards you

If you're recalling Xeno, you had a strong take on Noraa that I initially didn't see cause I felt you were picking on someone lesser than you

Nothing popped up for me that pinged me either way. I wanted the fluffiness of Shelly noted, though, because things could happen later in the game that could maybe later look AI.

I've played with Shelly, but I don't remember where nor would I be able to say what type of player they are.

I think she leads with what she sees immediately and then just hits submit even if she might redact it later

That type of play-style is a bit difficult to process, she's already done that a few times

[unwnd]

But seriously FL don't fucking self-vote

I don't care what's going up in your brain, but I think that's just gonna make scum not want to vote you? They're gonna look at that like 'well wtf is FL doing' and proceed to ignore you if your intent is to get others to come at you

[unwnd]

Nobody is going for the worm man I'm pretty sure?

[unwnd]

When I Self Vote, it is Pro Town, because it's not "just" a self vote.

I will never ever think this in my entire life

Self-voting will always be anti-town and right now all I have to say is good luck

[unwnd]

..Aren't you claiming it now?

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I'm just gonna pretend I didn't see that for your own sake

[unwnd]

Talking about it further is bad

Pretend it didn't happen and move on

[unwnd]

A pulse for this game would be nice

[unwnd]

but I’ve yet to be able to identify Scum D1 on this forum,

I understand your reasons extrapolated in the rest of your post but I'm not sure why you included this in your thought process

[unwnd]

You're here and that's cool

Flavor knows better to self-vote, he's supposed to be experienced. If you want to argue if anyone was being superfluous it was Flavor, and frankly I'm not gonna sit and entertain and neither should you. Unfortunately, Flavor has a huge ego. I know you're not probably not aware of it but it is always bordering anti-town, and usually when I find myself in conversations with him they end up with me leaving them empty, at least in the aspect of how he treats the game. Right now Flavor has sat here and said 'i tried to get the game started' but like I predicted nobody nibbled and now I've been left with an empty thought on what it all meant, so feel free to give your perspective Anders

[unwnd]

but I’ve yet to be able to identify Scum D1 on this forum,

I understand your reasons extrapolated in the rest of your post but I'm not sure why you included this in your thought process

It’s important that I say that because I want to be challenged on my reads. I am decent at figuring out what the Scum have been angling towards later in the game (I would argue it’s my greatest strength). But my ability to identify Scum early in the game is just not great. So take my views with a grain of salt.

I take anything posted here at face value until challenged otherwise, and I'm not exactly someone who believes you have to have pin-point accuracy in order to be a boon to town. So far, you've posted the most volume in terms of actual things I can latch onto, and there's a bit of dissonance I'm feeling because it seems like the way you interpret things by just throwing them out there feels similarly to how I do things

[unwnd]

Giving players like Flavor no accountability allows to run amuck and do whatever the fuck he wants. I don't care if he's Don Corgi and I didn't care in the last game I played with him, his actions have to prove to me otherwise he's going to beneficial to town wincon

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When it comes to nopoint, I'm not sure where you got that I was instigating an attack because Nopoint was the one who came at dunn in the first place

I'm not dunn's knight in shining armor though, I just felt the approach was baseless and I find if someone is heated about something it usually comes from one or two schools of thought

1) They are doing it intentionally in order to base a read on a player by means of reaction
2) They are replicating behavior they think is synonymous with town by seeming ilke they care a lot about this (thing)

In the instance of Nopoint, I leaned on the second and honestly I feel even stronger on that second point because he is simply not here and didn't seem to care enough in the first place lol

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Yes Flavor came back in and said 'welp I tried' even when I told him that no one would fall for

Whatever he was doing

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@unwnd, ah but my point was not that you were instigating an attack. I made a strategic observation about what you could be doing as Scum. IF (admittedly a decently big if, but I would lean positive on their aggressive attitudes) Dunn and nopoint are both Town, then what you did would make a lot of sense as Scum. You chose a side despite the fact that you don’t particularly TR one side of the argument (you claimed to have done it for a friend, but that just seems like a potential pocket attempt to me), which sets you well for the next few days. If the fight continues (say, because you believe Dunn is stubborn), and we end up in a situation where one of them flips, you get to hide behind the person actually driving the attack. It happens often enough around these parts that I simply had to point it out.

I don't think that hard about engagements like that, when it comes to my scum game it's just a lot of hollow words that look nice on the thread but lead to nothing

Rest assured, this is not the case

[unwnd]

I've been trapped in this mind crevice that is Forum Mafia since 2010

Maybe

[unwnd]

I personally believe you're reading too hard into it but I don't think the intentions are malicious

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Yes Flavor came back in and said 'welp I tried' even when I told him that no one would fall for

Whatever he was doing

You fell for it.

You were just looking at the posts from a surface level and thought that that was the thing someone would fall for.

I'm short of hearing please elaborate

[unwnd]

Remind me when you have some form of a read and then come back to me

[unwnd]

Keeping a fos on dunn but would like to see where this goes.
VOTE: Flavor Leaf

You missed the train already lol

[unwnd]

I think it's a non-point and I'd prefer if you engaged me on the response I gave shelly earlier instead, which I imagine you must've glanced if you saw FL self-vote cause that was after

[unwnd]

When it comes to nopoint, I'm not sure where you got that I was instigating an attack because Nopoint was the one who came at dunn in the first place

I'm not dunn's knight in shining armor though, I just felt the approach was baseless and I find if someone is heated about something it usually comes from one or two schools of thought

1) They are doing it intentionally in order to base a read on a player by means of reaction
2) They are replicating behavior they think is synonymous with town by seeming ilke they care a lot about this (thing)

In the instance of Nopoint, I leaned on the second and honestly I feel even stronger on that second point because he is simply not here and didn't seem to care enough in the first place lol

I'll give you the more recent one that is a better summarization anyways

[unwnd]

So you genuinely believe that a scumslip happened? Could you elaborate? I didn't believe in the conviction of your words

[unwnd]

Just realized I'm top-posting when I'm not even trying to and I hate that

[unwnd]

The last time we talked about this I believe I gave you close to the same answer I'd give to anyone else, and right now I find myself in a position where I am seeing a common mistake. The mistake being that people are basing their reads on happenstance instead of provided evidence. It's early, I've said that before. It's getting not so early anymore and I'm seeing a few reads starting to maybe develop. The basis of your read is that Dunn was hinting he had prior knowledge. I honestly think you could attribute that stance to a few posters. Is it a cause of the room being dead and people just shooting into the ether to see what happens? Not sure. I think there's a difference between believing something and then like, forcing yourself to.

Tell me: if this game progresses beyond this state will you still be holding onto your initial feeling of Dunn?

[unwnd]

Can you rephrase that first part in plain simple to the point English? I don’t see why I couldn’t change my reads under compelling evidence but people are slave to their initial bias all the time

God

Are my points really confusing people

Maybe I should stop back for a sec, I really thought I was pretty clear in what I said but that's twice now

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You're townreading someone who has the audacity to fucking self-vote and then play it off like he was trying to initiate town's motivation

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VOTE: Flavor Leaf

What do you think kf this vote Shelly?

[unwnd]

No you don't

You just won a game practically openwolfing

Im so bored with this game and it started to click in my head that even pushing you could give benefit

You'll at least entertain it

[unwnd]

Try to make an argument that doesn't devolve into self-meta as a means to justifying inherently negative actions

[unwnd]

Do you really not care that much

Im feeling whiplash, wasn't the self-vote as a means to motivate others? Just leave the convoluted 4d chess wankery at the door and tell me what you think of the current state of the game

And what it means

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Because I don't

"FL won a game openwolfin'" does not change that

FL has the capacity to openwolf but here I see it as being much less image-concerned and more spontaeous/rough

I think feeding into the idea of 'let's read FL differently from everyone else' is exactly how he gets away with this nonsense

I am reading his actions independently and on a basis if anyone, including FL, were to self-vote then it would be anti-town. I understand that anti-town is not always necessarily scum, but it should still be scrutinized the same way

[unwnd]

It's MU speak, another site where mafia is played. I've done a few treks to other mafia sites and have quite the collection of knowledge. Wolf is basically Scum to them, as Village is Townie. When you're openwolfing you're doing things that are blatantly scum but you don't care because nobody will punish you for it or you've been caught

[unwnd]

Unwnd tunneled me hard Day 1 in Xenoblade as town, that's my only experience with them.

The fact they did that there, knowing how I am, is a little scummy, I guess, but like, I think it's a boring wagon right now, if that makes sense.

It's a different game with different players doing different things. My statement made towards you was very direct, the only thing you did was call me annoying and handwave it. I honestly don't think I learned much from that D1 or that tunnel, it feels like you sell your townplay short so you may excel in scum, where-in you can make hasty unexplained decisions under the guise of poor town. I don't want to believe in that, and I especially don't want to believe in it because I don't think Good scum means Bad town every time. Furthermore, you're someone who prides himself in his reads, and there is a certain method to your madness.

I'm not really seeing that here, and I feel like the words that someone else said from a game you recently won ring very true to me, and that's 'FL knows you think he's scum, you have to lim him'

[unwnd]

I'll take you posting your #409 as a successful endeavor of calling out your nonsense, even if you won't give me the credit

[unwnd]

This isn't fully posted at you FL but I think a lot of the players right now are pretty unimpressive. Not in a derogatory sense, rather I'm not getting pinged at all. It's just karma that I ended up on you because you happen to be the person with the most amount of content to latch onto. Does that make my read a bit overzealous and am I simply reoccurring a past mistake with Xenoblade? Possibly. I'm willing to accept this however we can meet halfway.

[unwnd]

Shelly in particular reads more null to me and I'm not sure where the basis of your reads comes from. Her brand of skepticism is easily facked and her thoughts have no accountability thus far. She's had every chance to confront me and she has chosen to simply hide behind you/call you town. I've been starting to think what it means in relation to you

[unwnd]

If I'm aiming too high I think your read on her is far too biased in terms of

How you perceive yourself. Again, we've done this before so I'm a little more perceptible, however I think it is very very easy to look at the things you're doing and say 'yup it's pretty out there so it must be town'.

[unwnd]

i do know that

I've read your "HOW TO PLAY AS SCUM GUIDE" like, 3 times

I'll fight you one day unwnd, I'm just not quite motivated to case you rn

You don't need to case me, and I'm not sure why you feel that way lol

[unwnd]

Give me a direct no-nonsense read instead of a short vague assumption

[unwnd]

Again, you don't need to make it a case. The basis of your read should be there, a case is often a measure of convincing others that your read is right. This in turn makes me doubt how much you truly believe in it

[unwnd]

No, it is in you to make the first move

I'm not going to give you easy Yes/No questions

[unwnd]

I think you're overreacting to light pressure and you may be a type of player who wants to lecture but not vice-versa lol

[unwnd]

I think I would prefer if Andres could tell me what that means himself before I determine how I feel about it

However, I will ask you why you are associating me+johnny+nopoint? That team just doesn't make sense at all. You'd have to think me/Nopoint are scum theatering and then Johnny is trying to seem disengaged while affronting a town-read on me based on style alone

[unwnd]

I don't even think I could call it scum theater frankly, Nopoint told me that my reasons didn't make sense and that was a bit of a blow to me personally cause I try my absolute hardest to make sure my points are clear and concise. I said it before a bit earlier and I'll say it again: I tend to bullshit a bit of my reads in order to garner reactions, creating heightened accusations in order to see what make people tick. The action itself of calling out Nopoint in that matter was much more important than anything else, and I got a reaction out of it which is what my intent was in the first place.

You just did the same thing (:

[unwnd]

What do you think looks more daunting for scum

1. A naked blank vote with no reasoning attached at all
2. An effective summary of why you are voting someone and then proceeding to do so

[unwnd]

You just did the same thing (:

wdym?

I voted FL before the selfvote etc

I then voted you. From a hypothetical town!you pov we are not scum theatreing

You gave me a reaction

As in

Right now

It's what I wanted

[unwnd]

this seems a really convoluted way of scumhunting in that you scumhunt by apparently making fake reads and finding reactions?

They're not fake, they're just excessive. I let my mind wander a bit and start going through the motions of what an action could mean and just put it all out there, especially on D1.

[unwnd]

Make no mistake, I was not just haha fake-accusing Nopoint for laughs, I was very much (pinged) by him and then I just went through the process of coming up with a bunch of reasons as to why I felt that way. I don't simply believe in my bullshit and then hand it to people, I very much think that Nopoint's way of accusing dunn was scummy, but then the further interaction got ruined when

He literally just said 'i dont understand' lol

[unwnd]

especially a naked vote on scum in which scum don't know why they were scumread

Why so they can just ignore you? Give them reasons to squirm and feel uncomfortable. One vote isn't gonna do shit

[unwnd]

My original feelings were never resolved shelly so yes I would say I dislike Nopoint and I look forward to hearing what they have to say in light of all this

[unwnd]

Shelly I'm not new, why do you think I would fall for that

[unwnd]

We look at the thread different and the way they perceive players. Your mindset seems to veer towards guilty until proven innocent, while I often just want to townread most people and PoE scum after doing so

[unwnd]

I don't know shelly, it seems like the more we get into this the more you are aping on me for playstyle difference and nothing else, I don't necessarily feel convicted of any crime. Did you disagree with what I said about Nopoint in the first place? You just seemed to take our interaction at face-value

[unwnd]

I don't think you're paying attention because I gave a clear reason as to why this is a good wagon

[unwnd]

Unwnd tunneled me hard Day 1 in Xenoblade as town, that's my only experience with them.

The fact they did that there, knowing how I am, is a little scummy, I guess, but like, I think it's a boring wagon right now, if that makes sense.

It's a different game with different players doing different things. My statement made towards you was very direct, the only thing you did was call me annoying and handwave it. I honestly don't think I learned much from that D1 or that tunnel, it feels like you sell your townplay short so you may excel in scum, where-in you can make hasty unexplained decisions under the guise of poor town. I don't want to believe in that, and I especially don't want to believe in it because I don't think Good scum means Bad town every time. Furthermore, you're someone who prides himself in his reads, and there is a certain method to your madness.

I'm not really seeing that here, and I feel like the words that someone else said from a game you recently won ring very true to me, and that's 'FL knows you think he's scum, you have to lim him'

[unwnd]

What you're seeing a bit of annoyance in some aspects where I feel like I'm mostly just talking to myself. There's a reason I pointed out that I was the top poster (and hating it), because right now I am inducing an echo chamber with only a select people. You wanna know what the biggest irony of it is? Flavor Leaf, the person I am voting, is about the only person who has been receptive towards me. I don't enjoy being the forefront of discussion let alone leading it, the last time I got in this situation it was purely to keep up.

In a scenario where this keeps happening, I have to ask myself either if I've engaged with scum already or if scum hasn't even bothered to check in. What do you think?

[unwnd]

scumies are dunn, maybe FL

Are these separate scumreads? I don't know if FL votes Dunn in the way he did as a potential mate.

[unwnd]

I agree with anders. I actually think a flashwagon on someone lesser active could be an interesting angle to hit.

[unwnd]

VOTE: Hank Spankems

[unwnd]

I've never felt so disconnected from my town in a very long time. What does this game need in order for it to spring to life?

[unwnd]

I liked my attempt of a flashwagon and felt like Hank is being obtuse for all the wrong reasons

[unwnd]

Is the only reason it didn't gain traction is because it seemingly was easy? Like, that's the only thought I can have.

[unwnd]

Is the only reason it didn't gain traction is because it seemingly was easy? Like, that's the only thought I can have.

A Hank lynch would accomplish nothing since he has zero interaction with the game.

Right now I think the disposition we're in after stepping back is that scum simply has nothing to do, therefore I think the chance is there

[unwnd]

I am absolutely floored we somehow no-limmed

Going to be giving my thoughts (from what little we had) very soon

[unwnd]

Alright.

It seems this game is in a precarious state. Once again, I am disappointed about the lack of a lim there. This game doesn't feel apathetic more than it feels aimless. The question I have to ask myself is if this apathy is intentional. I've parsed Flavor's vote on me and I'm not really worried about it, but what I do worry about is...

Me, Flavor, and Shelly are the top posters. Why is it that I come back here and see the accusations fly in our direction? That'd be a pretty embarrassing scumpile in hindsight if town were simply not doing anything.

[unwnd]

A lot of my previous reads sorta became fleeting. I disliked Nopoint but it's been actual days and I can't remember the reason why. I can't read someone's mind but I imagine Shelly feels close to the same in terms of me. The M/O of most scum team is either 1) Control the gamestate 2) Operate in the gamestate. If scum were

controlling

the gamestate, then logic persists that Me/Flavor/Shelly would be in contention purely by the amount of seeming effort. I think Flavor is wrong about me and I think he's done some absolutely nonsensical posts, but that's a lot of extra for nothing gained. This gives me pause even if I initially was a bit annoyed people were townreading him. I think those people who are seemingly just being like, 'well, that's flavor being flavor' have more possibility to be scum who are only operating in the gamestate provided for them. This is not an absolute rather just an observation.

I mean this literally, but me and FL have provided provided more than 20% of the posts made, and then most of them are interacting with each other.

[unwnd]

I don't believe scum are controlling the gamestate by the way, I tend to lean with they're just operating with it. Scum aren't gonna decide lynches for us, which in turn makes sense why there wasn't one in the first place. I had my hands tied behind my back in some aspect and I wanted to practice restraint. I don't enjoy seeing myself at the top poster count and I won't lie and say it tilted me and even made me a bit bitter.

As for what's going on? I think scum are just lowballing and intentionally playing this way. And what do you know? It's working. The fact Me/Shelly/Flavor are the most talked about topics should say that alone.

[unwnd]

I'm at a bit of a loss. I was/am sus of people who tried to flashwagon at the last minute. I'm sorry I was absent (I feel better now) but seriously why would you try a new wagon that has a low chance of taking off when presense is low?

To me that screams trying to get a nolim d1 which is rough for us.

I think I was pretty much the only person who attempted to flashwagon on hank and it went nowhere. Could you elaborate what you meant in regards to bolded?

[unwnd]

Dunn
Not Mafia

Geraint
Andres

Shelly
Hank
Johnny

Plusjoyed
Fuzzy
Nopoint
Unwnd

Probably where I'm at.

I'd say at least 2 scum in bottom group, possible scum in that shelly, hank, johnny. But all 3 could be in that bottom.

We're just not going to get along lol, I think PlusJOYED's inquiry after the nolim was pretty pure and I think Fuzzy looks more lost than anything. I'm worried about Johnny/Hank/Gera the most as I feel they're the most low impact despite having their presence seemingly pop up at convenient times.

[unwnd]

Right now I townread Dunn/Andres/Fuzzy and maybe Flavor because I sorta am biased about how the game is turning out, which makes me wanna spittake for saying that but

Whatever lol

[unwnd]

There's a possibility of me being wrong on Fuzzy/Andres but the conversations I had with Andres ring pretty true and I don't think he is taking an authoritative stance or trying to set up lims, I buy the solving he's tried to provide and enjoyed reading it. I don't really see much of an agenda with Fuzzy's posting or someone telling him what to post/not post.

[unwnd]

That's funny because I felt that way on D1 and now I feel vastly different lol

[unwnd]

fwiw i now sorta want to reverse my unwnd read

I feel like unwnd wants to strongarm the gamestate here

@unwnd talk to me about this post. Are you really all that sure about your view of the game? You seem to be partly defending two players {Shellyc, Flavor} that are more than happy to vote for you and throw you under the bus, because they post a lot? Quantity of posting for the two of them is not indicative of anything at all. Particularly for those two.

I've a reassessment about myself slightly unrelated to this game and I would like to follow through on it. The gist of it being that predetermined lims are almost always bad and give scum a lot of space to maneuver. Regardless of thieir post-count, the aimlessness I see is mostly because you have fleeting reads without prior substance. Do you think this would be an intentional move on Shelly's part? Flavor? Both of them feel like stubborn people and I'm not sure of what's left is actually AI.

Dunn
Not Mafia

Geraint
Andres

Shelly
Hank
Johnny

Plusjoyed
Fuzzy
Nopoint
Unwnd

Probably where I'm at.

I'd say at least 2 scum in bottom group, possible scum in that shelly, hank, johnny. But all 3 could be in that bottom.

@unwnd remember, Flavor is saying that all of the Scum are in {plusJOYED, Fuzzy, nopoint, you}. Do you buy that? Because I don’t. Hank should be in everybody’s suspicious or null pile, for example. plusJOYED is actually trying even if I think they have a few things wrong.

He says a ton of things that feel really hard to grasp. I have to read mostly what he's pushing. If I were to separate Flavor from well, himself, I would definitely say that his posts are made only for show. I dislike this innately but I'm giving him space to show me if there's method in the madness or not.

[unwnd]

Johnny is town because I know how he plays as scum, plus he’s actually been communicating with me, unlike the many people in this thread who completely ignores my line of questioning

I think your perception is biased. I think Johnny is playing strictly UTR and intentionally so. I haven't seen him really push anyone and to keep it simple he mostly posts fluff.

[unwnd]

Side-note:

I don't like using modern terms like UTR or AI or TWBTAW or shit like that but I'll do it to make myself more understandable

[unwnd]

770 - unwnd I can’t fully understand what you’re saying here, so I’ll ask some questions.

Who do you think is pushing pre-determined executions? And who are you saying has reads without substance? If you’re speaking about my reads, I very much explained my read on Shellyc towards the beginning of today. Are you complaining about my TRs? I have made some arguments about nopoint before in D1. None of that has really changed.

If you’re speaking about Shellyc, she doesn’t have a choice. She had 3 people as Scum, one of which was NK’ed, one who claimed Cop (with no CC), and the other one who was the result of a check.

I also don’t get what being stubborn has anything to do with it.

Flavor and Shellyc are stubborn, yes. So am I. So is Titus. What’s your point?

If you ask me, I think Flavor needs to more conclusively demonstrate why nopoint makes sense as the execution. There were some arguments about how the votes stacked up, but it’s an inscrutable argument because it has to assume that Flavor is Town, and no one knows that but Flavor. If you noticed, Flavor was voted yesterday by a Confirmed Town, and by Dunn/Not_Mafia at one point. Which is why Flavor is throwing shade to the only other person on their wagon. Again, I’m not buying it.

When I don't know what's going on or I can't follow the room, I start making my own interpretations. A lot of what I previously said is best described as looking at the big picture instead of small details. Why do you think we no-limmed yesterday? This is slightly rhetorical. It's because people can't decide what they want, and I believe this is

because

of predetermined elims. Like, people say 'I want X' as an example but getting your lim requires a bit more effort. There's not really anyone doing that and instead it's a lot of passivity which I'm starting to think is intentional. It's getting hard for me to distinguish posts between players because of this.

In regards to stubbornness, it attributes to the gamestate. You have people who are self-assured with just saying someone is scum is enough for others to simply agree and then accumulate votes. It's not that I'm requiring walls or deep intricate analysis, it's that I require some some sort of thought pattern to follow along with. I don't really feel like you answered my question and instead with 'well shelly does this'. Strip away your preconceived notions of shelly and tell me if she would make sense as scum just by the amount of attention she's accrued already.

[unwnd]

I don't disagree with Flavor but what you're asking for is like pulling fucking teeth

[unwnd]

Hey Noraa

I kinda think Johnny is scum, what's your take on this

[unwnd]

Well this game is in a precarious state where I am very concerned about the lack of energy and think it must be intentional in some regard

[unwnd]

Right now I'm looking in Johnny/Hank/Gera and even then that list is not from a perspective where I think this must be the 3 scum, it's just where I want to start so I can start accumulating some stronger townreads hopefully by causing action to take place.

[unwnd]

...Just like that Noraa?

Did I say this before in this game I fucking swear I did

[unwnd]

Noraa how do you read nopoint right now?

[unwnd]

unwnd seems pretty lifeless this game.

Completely guilty of this, I'm having a hard time finding my footing because the room feels pretty (lifeless) as well

[unwnd]

It's a different scenario with a different set of players, I also am feeling this twitch in a sense. The twitch being that I really don't wanna do that again? Results and everything is awesome but I don't wanna be spearheading the gamestate and doing what I did in the Large left me with actual arthritis in my hand from typing too much and headaches. I don't want assert myself constantly, but know I do feel frustration either way lol

[unwnd]

I thought about your post Insano and it made me want to prove you wrong

[unwnd]

Give me time and things about me will start to make sense

[unwnd]

OK I'm not rereading anything

Town right now are Insano, (Dunn), PlusJOYED, Fuzzy, FL (Begrudgingly), Noraa

That leaves Johnny/Gera/Nopoint/Andres

I don't think that contains the whole team and I've been wracking my brain about where I want to take things. I made some points earlier that people seemed to glance over which slightly irritates me but to rephrase up until (now) I've had a difficult time sorting through the monotony. At an individual level I think Johnny's content looks the worse, and Nopoint offering me a meta tell isn't enough to chew on to say otherwise. There is a distinctive lack of commitment in his posts and I think as time goes on me waiting for anything to change simply won't do

VOTE: JohnnyFarrer

[unwnd]

I maintain what I said before though, and the passivity even towards my slot is concerning, because I've given a lot of content yet I find myself in this disposition

Insano is right even if he should know that I was typing this post before he voted

[unwnd]

The biggest ?'s I have towards my pile is a bit vain. It's strange to find myself in a position where I feel a decent amount of ire (towards myself) from those I suspect.

Nopoint - I cannot follow half of the things you're doing. We had a spat and then you sorta fucked off afterwards. I wrote it off because I can't make you engage me but thus far a lot of your presence feels inapplicable. You speak with such in such a self-assured way yet results speak otherwise. My concern from a fleeting D1 thought is that this feels fabricated, and I don't want to see you lean on self-meta because that will always be a crapshoot. I actually don't even know why you started to townread me honestly if I think about it

Andres - I like your analyzing but it's becoming just busywork in my eyes. We've traded paragraphs yet your hesitance to vote is the most striking. Where do your commitments lie and how long does it take to get there? I am the most willing to be wrong on you as I feel your approach is quite similar to mine, only that I know when I'm scum a lot of my angle is just producing wordy semantics as a means to be townread for effort lol

[unwnd]

I don't have many words about Gera, his posting doesn't seem further inspection tbh

[unwnd]

Insano challenging me is what me townread him btw, I'm pretty sure he would be content as scum to just let me wallow in pity. I don't know what the fuck Hank was doing but it feels right to townread that callout

[unwnd]

I also specifically stated Unwnd vs FL tomorrow.

Read the game, Dunn.

Are you sure that's the route you want to go down? Despite me giving you thread passes where I shouldn't due to the extraneous amount of back-and-forth you continue to want?

[unwnd]

I think Insano's efforts are town even if the read is largely based on tone difference from the last game. Why do you exactly

know

I'm scum. I don't feel that evidence is provided nor will you ever give it

This is why arguing with you is pointless, and I'm not looking forward to you forcing me into a 1v1 even if you're scum

[unwnd]

If your vote is on me I don't accept that as 'going elsewhere' lol

[unwnd]

The one game we've been in together as town you were very adamant in your votes and obnoxiously so

You're bartering for time at this point

[unwnd]

Right you're just an enigma and I'm a fool for attempting to reason with you carry on

[unwnd]

Still waiting on your shelly slot thoughts

Not a priority today and I'm not sure where (correct if I'm wrong) you've insinuated we have partner equity together

[unwnd]

Right you're just an enigma and I'm a fool for attempting to reason with you carry on

Nah, I'm super readable, I just find it incredibly poor for people to try to meta me as a be all end all after playing one or two games with me, as one alignment.

I already think meta is supplementary at best.

OK Know that my townread on you is a disservice to myself and if we both happen to be alive tommorow I'm willing to destroy the thread if it means taking you down

[unwnd]

Johnny I don't understand why you are so willing to hop/vote wherever the thread pleases

[unwnd]

I'm slightly annoyed at feeling like I'm a lim candidate just because Flavor deemed for me to be so

[unwnd]

I'm fine with it

[unwnd]

The way you framed it sounds more like partner attribution actually. Your slot (Taylor) in Mini Normal gave me the same vibes with Gamma and I honed into it

[unwnd]

I very much dislike with how this game has progressed

[unwnd]

I wanted content from

other

players. Not Noraa and FL trading potshots with each other. I don't feel any closer to understanding the playing field which has been my goal since I started this phase. I'm reposting these because I'm just going to ignore what's going on and would still like to see it answered

The biggest ?'s I have towards my pile is a bit vain. It's strange to find myself in a position where I feel a decent amount of ire (towards myself) from those I suspect.

Nopoint - I cannot follow half of the things you're doing. We had a spat and then you sorta fucked off afterwards. I wrote it off because I can't make you engage me but thus far a lot of your presence feels inapplicable. You speak with such in such a self-assured way yet results speak otherwise. My concern from a fleeting D1 thought is that this feels fabricated, and I don't want to see you lean on self-meta because that will always be a crapshoot. I actually don't even know why you started to townread me honestly if I think about it

Andres - I like your analyzing but it's becoming just busywork in my eyes. We've traded paragraphs yet your hesitance to vote is the most striking. Where do your commitments lie and how long does it take to get there? I am the most willing to be wrong on you as I feel your approach is quite similar to mine, only that I know when I'm scum a lot of my angle is just producing wordy semantics as a means to be townread for effort lol

[unwnd]

OK so what's claimed right now?

Dunnstral - Cop
PlusJOYED - Vigil
FL -Vig enabler
Insano - 1-Shot Bodyguard
Nopo -???
Johnny - ???

It actively gives me a headache reading that btw.

[unwnd]

I wanted content from

other

players. Not Noraa and FL trading potshots with each other. I don't feel any closer to understanding the playing field which has been my goal since I started this phase. I'm reposting these because I'm just going to ignore what's going on and would still like to see it answered

The biggest ?'s I have towards my pile is a bit vain. It's strange to find myself in a position where I feel a decent amount of ire (towards myself) from those I suspect.

Nopoint - I cannot follow half of the things you're doing. We had a spat and then you sorta fucked off afterwards. I wrote it off because I can't make you engage me but thus far a lot of your presence feels inapplicable. You speak with such in such a self-assured way yet results speak otherwise. My concern from a fleeting D1 thought is that this feels fabricated, and I don't want to see you lean on self-meta because that will always be a crapshoot. I actually don't even know why you started to townread me honestly if I think about it

Andres - I like your analyzing but it's becoming just busywork in my eyes. We've traded paragraphs yet your hesitance to vote is the most striking. Where do your commitments lie and how long does it take to get there? I am the most willing to be wrong on you as I feel your approach is quite similar to mine, only that I know when I'm scum a lot of my angle is just producing wordy semantics as a means to be townread for effort lol

are you normally this fence sitty as town? Last I checked, no. But this game is dead except for one annoying jester so ig the circumstances are quite different.

I genuinely appreciate you understand circumstances are different and I don't have the innate ability to just make magic happen by my mere presence in the game. I don't put that on myself for

1) Being very stressful
2) Not overestimating my own abilities and
3) Wanting to place faith in others by means of townread or capability

I feel this is understandable enough so I don't want to produce more tangents. I also don't really feel like what I said was fencesitting and I've been quite clear in what I want lol

[unwnd]

These are the conversations we should be having D5 and not D2

What the fuck am I looking at

[unwnd]

UNVOTE:

[unwnd]

Yeah I would prefer if the claim train stopped right here. This sudden burst of activity and claiming is so weird to me. Johnny, you weren't even at E-1 and you decided to claim?

[unwnd]

Yeah I would prefer if the claim train stopped right here. This sudden burst of activity and claiming is so weird to me. Johnny, you weren't even at E-1 and you decided to claim?

Newpage

[unwnd]

That still isn't a means of claiming, especially if you could prove it. What you're saying has a lot of utility and you could've gave us worthwhile results??

[unwnd]

I don't understand where you disagree

[unwnd]

Hey guys. My living situation is uncertain (Our lease is up) and I need some time to figure out the next course of action in my life. So I'd like to take a V/LA as Mafia will just be an added stress to me. Thanks.

acknowledged, RL always comes first. Good luck -innocentvillager

[unwnd]

No watcher claims, the Watcher is probably mafia so I'm fine with my lynch since it would disable that role.

Could you expand on this reasoning?

[unwnd]

maybe
andres is my strongest non-mechanical (as in roles/claims not being a thing) TRs personally.
But POE is tightening for me
I think andres, Noraa are dayplay wise town
I think either nopoint or johny is town and other maf
Notmafia and dunn gotta be town
FL is town

that leaves insano, gera, uwnd, or fuzzy as the 2 remaining scum slots in my book. I think uwnd is probably scum, he's been trying to slow things down as of late and talking himself up. I'll probably shoot him if nopoint flips red today.

if I had to guess a solve it'd be nopoint/uwnd/insano.

On play, andres looks town, yeah. But I went back and noticed he was making some pretty strained defenses of nopoint, and for all his posting looks town, he hasn't really driven the game in any direction, and I feel as though today he's started to coast quite a bit. Just a theory that's contingent partly on nopoint's flip. I know people don't trust me because of Hank's play, and I don't really have a problem getting flipped at some point, just want to give people something to consider after I flip.

I know you think I'm scum for whatever reasons you have but I'd love to flip here and think I can convince you otherwise.

VOTE: Andres

I agree with your take, but I also don't get where you're defeatist and keep saying things like 'well just flip me', because while I don't have insight about your play as town, I think you know yourself well enough to where you were able to emulate good thoughts that always gave me pause in the Mini Normal. I think Andres' speaks from a perspective that is heady analysis but nothing ever surfaces from it. I noted where I would actively have conversation with Andres prior D1 (I think even today) and it seemed like we both walked away from the conversation pretty listless. I don't know what end he gets into these arguments like they matter for him, and the more he continues to do it, the more it seems like only an appeal.

[unwnd]

Noraa vs FL is to be blunt extremely stupid and I'm not entertaining it. I might be shooting away from what deems to be thread majority, but it only became that because FL loves to hear himself talk. If FL is on the wrong path as town, it's just gonna lead to scum latching onto his hot fire takes without needing to substantiate themselves. I don't know if Noraa gets into a slapfight like this and her read on Johnny seems to be very personal, so much that I don't feel it's fake.

[unwnd]

I don't go down with Noraa to redirect the lim like this as scum lol

[unwnd]

Oh and as far as 'I don't wanna stress/lead' whatever stuff

I was being a bitch, I need to stop thinking so hard about if I'm top-posting or whatever, I just dislike it when my thoughts become like an echo chamber

[unwnd]

@Wind
opinion on the no lynch yesterday and the three dead wagon (Shelly/Noraa, Flavor and Dun ) that lead to the no kill yesterday. Do you think scum that Andre was the only scum on a major wagn
when the day was done?

@ FL
How is John not scum if NP is, as John claimed NP as neither being VT or scum? trying to figure out your Logic

No-lim wagonomics probably would lead to the same result of D1

As in nothing, I think where it's suspect if people were claiming intent to lim someone and somehow we ended up with nothing

I'd have to look and see if that's the case

[unwnd]

I don't know where your vote lies on nopoint yet you entertain the idea of johnny being scum andres?

[unwnd]

Vote count 2.06

with 12 votes in play, it takes 7 to eliminate. Day 2 ends in (expired on 2020-12-26 12:19:38).

elimination

2. Andresvmb [0]:

3. unwnd [1]:

Insanoflex#1444

4. Flavor Leaf [0]:

5. Insanoflex [1]:

JohnnyFarrar#835

6. Noraa [3]:

Andresvmb#683, Not_Mafia#841, nopointinactingup#1344

7. PlusJOYED [0]:

8. Not_Mafia [0]:

9. JohnnyFarrar [0]:

10. geraintm [0]:

11. TheFuzzyLogic99 [0]:

12. Dunnstral [0]:

13. nopointinactingup [4]:

TheFuzzyLogic99#1290, PlusJOYED#1292, Flavor Leaf#1316, Noraa#1360

no elimination [0]:

Not Voting [3]:

unwnd#1415, Dunnstral#1418, geraintm#1483

mod notes

Spoiler: vote log

Day 2 vote log

Post 681: PlusJOYED votes nopointinactingup
Post 683: Andresvmb votes Noraa
Post 685: Not_Mafia votes nopointinactingup
Post 701: JohnnyFarrar votes Noraa
Post 705: Dunnstral votes Flavor Leaf
Post 715: Flavor Leaf votes unwnd
Post 744: Noraa votes JohnnyFarrar
Post 751: nopointinactingup votes Flavor Leaf
Post 812: Dunnstral votes Insanoflex
Post 835: JohnnyFarrar votes Insanoflex
Post 837: Noraa votes geraintm
Post 841: Not_Mafia votes Noraa
Post 843: nopointinactingup votes Insanoflex
Post 845: Noraa votes Not_Mafia
Post 859: TheFuzzyLogic99 votes unwnd
Post 864: Flavor Leaf votes Insanoflex
Post 865: Flavor Leaf votes unwnd
Post 877: Insanoflex votes nopointinactingup
Post 885: geraintm votes nopointinactingup
Post 898: geraintm votes JohnnyFarrar
Post 938: PlusJOYED votes JohnnyFarrar
Post 943: TheFuzzyLogic99 votes unvote
Post 959: Insanoflex votes unwnd
Post 961: unwnd votes JohnnyFarrar
Post 1068: Noraa votes Flavor Leaf
Post 1086: Flavor Leaf votes Noraa
Post 1212: Insanoflex votes Noraa
Post 1263: TheFuzzyLogic99 votes Insanoflex
Post 1289: TheFuzzyLogic99 votes JohnnyFarrar
Post 1290: TheFuzzyLogic99 votes nopointinactingup
Post 1292: PlusJOYED votes nopointinactingup
Post 1316: Flavor Leaf votes nopointinactingup
Post 1344: nopointinactingup votes Noraa
Post 1360: Noraa votes nopointinactingup
Post 1415: unwnd votes unvote
Post 1417: Insanoflex votes unvote
Post 1418: Dunnstral votes unvote
Post 1444: Insanoflex votes unwnd
Post 1483: geraintm votes unvote

Noraa wagon as of this post has worse makeup than nopoint wagon

More thought soon

[unwnd]

The whirlwind of claims is the polarizing thing I've seen thus far in this game. Within a frame of a couple of hours, you had FL who claimed Vig Enabler, Nopoint who claimed Watcher Enabler, PlusJOYED who claimed Vig, then Johnny that claimed complex neighborizer

Right now I think the claims likely contain one scum, who used this shitshow for lack of a better term to gain some townpoints. I find it so odd that Johnny claimed in a matter of I think like 3 votes and then Nopoint proceeded to claim afterwards to attest their neighborhood. I think right now your best bet to find scum in the claims is right here, because unlike all the other claims, they were completely unsolicited besides like FL's claim lol

[unwnd]

I looked at deadline and I think it's unlikely that I get a flip onto andres, and while I'm not a fan of Johnny I don't think Johnny/Nopoint are hedging their bets on a double fake-claim, rather one of them is again

Just making use of a bad situation. My bias based on how I've felt about nopoint and the fact he's actively ignored me despite my inquiries make me think he's a better lim

VOTE: nopoint

[unwnd]

If the watcher exists then he wouldn't be able to do anything given Nopoint claimed watcher enabler and we just killed him.

I feel decent about this lim, I think if he flips red the wagon makeup will have enough to discern, but if he flips green then I'd say that scum is just continuing to lowball like I worried about earlier

[unwnd]

It's not in my favor to play the way I've been towards my reads of nopoint, if anything I'd like to take credit as I was getting discouraged D1 (and pretty much suspected him since)

[unwnd]

Vote count 2.final

with 12 votes in play, it takes 7 to eliminate. Day 2 ends in (expired on 2020-12-28 12:19:38).

elimination

2. Andresvmb [0]:

3. unwnd [1]:

geraintm#1667

4. Flavor Leaf [0]:

5. Insanoflex [1]:

Andresvmb#1656

6. Noraa [1]:

nopointinactingup#1344

7. PlusJOYED [0]:

8. Not_Mafia [0]:

9. JohnnyFarrar [0]:

10. geraintm [0]:

11. TheFuzzyLogic99 [0]:

12. Dunnstral [0]:

13. nopointinactingup [7 - HAMMER!]:

PlusJOYED#1292

, Insanoflex#1577,

unwnd#1650

,

Flavor Leaf#1668

, Noraa#1674,

JohnnyFarrar#1684

,

Not_Mafia#1708

no elimination [0]:

Not Voting [2]:

Dunnstral#1418, TheFuzzyLogic99#1564

mod notes

~ I mistaken counted Not_Mafia's vote in 1558 as on unwnd, when it was actually on nopointinactingup. It will be treated in the vote log as a vote for unwnd, sorry for the confusion.
~ unwnd V/LA
~ TheFuzzyLogic99 V/LA through Christmas

Spoiler: vote log

Day 2 vote log

Post 681: PlusJOYED votes nopointinactingup
Post 682: Andresvmb votes Noraa
Post 685: Not_Mafia votes nopointinactingup
Post 701: JohnnyFarrar votes Noraa
Post 705: Dunnstral votes Flavor Leaf
Post 715: Flavor Leaf votes unwnd
Post 744: Noraa votes JohnnyFarrar
Post 751: nopointinactingup votes Flavor Leaf
Post 812: Dunnstral votes Insanoflex
Post 835: JohnnyFarrar votes Insanoflex
Post 837: Noraa votes geraintm
Post 841: Not_Mafia votes Noraa
Post 843: nopointinactingup votes Insanoflex
Post 845: Noraa votes Not_Mafia
Post 859: TheFuzzyLogic99 votes unwnd
Post 864: Flavor Leaf votes Insanoflex
Post 865: Flavor Leaf votes unwnd
Post 877: Insanoflex votes nopointinactingup
Post 885: geraintm votes nopointinactingup
Post 898: geraintm votes JohnnyFarrar
Post 938: PlusJOYED votes JohnnyFarrar
Post 943: TheFuzzyLogic99 votes unvote
Post 959: Insanoflex votes unwnd
Post 961: unwnd votes JohnnyFarrar
Post 1068: Noraa votes Flavor Leaf
Post 1086: Flavor Leaf votes Noraa
Post 1212: Insanoflex votes Noraa
Post 1263: TheFuzzyLogic99 votes Insanoflex
Post 1289: TheFuzzyLogic99 votes JohnnyFarrar
Post 1290: TheFuzzyLogic99 votes nopointinactingup
Post 1292: PlusJOYED votes nopointinactingup
Post 1316: Flavor Leaf votes nopointinactingup
Post 1344: nopointinactingup votes Noraa
Post 1360: Noraa votes nopointinactingup
Post 1415: unwnd votes unvote
Post 1417: Insanoflex votes unvote
Post 1418: Dunnstral votes unvote
Post 1444: Insanoflex votes unwnd
Post 1483: geraintm votes unvote
Post 1522: Noraa votes JohnnyFarrar
Post 1558: Not_Mafia votes unwnd
Post 1564: TheFuzzyLogic99 votes unvote
Post 1577: Insanoflex votes nopointinactingup
Post 1587: Flavor Leaf votes Noraa
Post 1613: JohnnyFarrar votes Noraa
Post 1615: unwnd votes Andresvmb
Post 1626: Andresvmb votes nopointinactingup
Post 1644: Andresvmb votes TheFuzzyLogic99
Post 1650: unwnd votes nopointinactingup
Post 1656: Andresvmb votes Insanoflex
Post 1667: geraintm votes unwnd
Post 1668: Flavor Leaf votes nopointinactingup
Post 1674: Noraa votes nopointinactingup
Post 1684: JohnnyFarrar votes nopointinactingup
Post 1708: Not_Mafia votes nopointinactingup

Logic persists that at least one scum was on this wagon just for clarity sake

While N_M's content is is just ... I don't think a Cop enabler/Cop has to contest on top of a Mafia Godfather so that likely makes his clear true. I maintain my position about one scum being within the enabler claims, and it seems like nopoint was put in a position where he looked foolish due to (Johnny's) complex neighborizer and just went with the most townie looking role based on events. I'm not that into rolespec so I'll impede my thought here and come back to this later

[unwnd]

VOTE: unwnd
Been trying to work out where i wanted to vote after my initial read got kiboshed. Think I am happy here at the moment.
Holidays so doing best to keep on top of things, people in this game have more knowledge than me. There must be more stuff out there too if the death last night was not scum aligned....

VOTE: Insanoflex

A {Noraa, unwnd, Insano} Scum Team would be interesting.

While I'm not liking andres and to some extent gera, I'm not sure I can buy a world where they see nopoint being at death's door and

both

of them just feign ignorance. Right now between the two it becomes a matter whether Andres was locked into his own stances (and switching off would look scummy) or if Gera is just being coy intentionally

[unwnd]

I read a minor bit of nopoint overnight but felt he was pretty anti-spew. A lot of his D1 fmpov was just spent arguing with townies which is actually astounding if you go look at it.

[unwnd]

@Andres, what do you think of my point against FL?

I believed it then but no one else sees it so idk, they can’t all be scum

Real Scum slips in my experience are rare. Like obvious mistakes that truly reveal that you’re Scum just don’t happen all that often. Scum tend to be careful. If anything, what appear to be mistakes made by Scum can be simply differences in style or communication. We just came out of a game where a Town player was thought of being Scum for referring to themselves in the third person (and being coached into a post).

I think the evidence for a slip needs to be overwhelming, or the slip really obvious. Otherwise, it’s just not that.

Yeah that makes sense. I can kinda see now how that could be read as just stating a town-read.

unwnd is town, at least that's what I'm willing to bet on for now since with the spontaneous way he is speaking he will get found out soon if he was scum.

Johnny is looking worse so I'm going to have to take back that alliance request. I find the way johnny plays as scum is lurking and opportunism and I got a sense of it in his recent posts.

shelly is looking like she's trying to solve, but the way that she's doing it seems odd and commentary-ish. also, shelly I would like you to explain your Andres read.

I like fuzzy and vibing with a lot of what he's saying

Why are so happy to defend unwnd here? It can’t be that speaking in a spontaneous way is all you have to hang your hat on.

I've had a town-vibe on unwnd since his beginning posts and he sounds like he's engaged in figuring out the game. It's really hard to top-post as scum without posting fluff imo.

Also, andres is town

, still null on Titus, Hank and gera

The difference in interaction based on how he treated andres and treated (myself, dunn) is a bit shocking however. Nopoint only discredited my argument but didn't seem too enthused in actually understanding it. The way Andres/Nopoint respond to each other (comparitive to everyone else) is very uncanny, so much that he townreads andres for ? reasons

[unwnd]

Ctrl+F andres in Nopoint's ISO and there's a disparaging amount of leeway in their interactions lol

[unwnd]

Andres is the only voice of reason in this game. Most of FL's argument is predicated on the fact that he's town and therefore not really reliable. I also don't trust any of his reads, unwd and me are both town.

Amazing stuff

[unwnd]

I'm not sure if everyone agrees but when I'm scum I almost always want to give my partners benefit of the doubt unless

1) I am predetermining a bus on them for my own safety
2) They are playing in such a way that would make them impossible to save (see: suicidal)
3) It would look contradictory to defend them

As scum, I know town are looking for the paper trails, so it's easier to disassociate by almost openly appeasing your partner in an almost-obvious ways. Nopoint's attitude was consistently this obtuse angle where he discredited certain arguments but never aimed to really attack anyone. He constantly was throwing out stale reads and wanted to avoid direct confrontation, spending most of his time in response mode. The game for awhile until (claims) happened was like paint drying. It didn't seem like Nopoint wanted to make any drastic decisions in lieu of this and was running out of people to hide behind. I'm feeling pretty confident that prior to those claims, it was a definite "oh shit" moment for them due to resolving night actions. The question remains whether the way Nopoint is telling of stronger scum who he felt were capable enough to carry the game, or a feeling of helplessness.

[unwnd]

Noraa where are you looking besides andres and why are you so convinced?

Is it really just because of my influence

[unwnd]

The only hesitance from me is that I really do think scum voted Nopoint, like I don't think there are many wagons I've seen form on a mate (especially with how it went down) and they didn't try to get some cred for it

[unwnd]

While I again appreciate the humbling I would prefer if you told me what your next options would be

Andres you too, being wrong to me doesn't determine much because there's still plenty of game to get it right. Do you agree with me that there's likely scum on Nopoint's wagon?

[unwnd]

Start with your townreads then? If looking scum for scum doesn't suit you then inverse it, I actually do this a lot myself to create a PoE

[unwnd]

Start with your townreads then? If looking scum for scum doesn't suit you then inverse it, I actually do this a lot myself to create a PoE

inverse is hard too.
I think plus is town but that's 100% mech.
I don't even believe that strongly in Dunn town with his literal 5 posts or something.
NM is super underwhelming this game and so I'm just like ... uh.
Im not a big fan of flavor and I honestly feel like he could be scum gassing me up.
The problem is that I think everyone here that's not mechanically cleared could be scum and I fail to see anything that I even remotely am willing to clear for long periods of time because literally like ten seconds later they call me scum and I'm like "bitch wtf"

From what I understand you think I'm town for the read and then maybe like Insano? Is that correct?

[unwnd]

From what I understand you think I'm town for the read and then maybe like Insano? Is that correct?

I think ur town bc u have a specific solve and u remind me of cakes large normal.

but then I ISO'ed u earlier today and the way nopo just disappeared outta ur solve made me freak out and question all my sorting abilities.

Don't have a read on Insano.

I was pretty much deflated in regards to the responses given when I was trying to sort him early D1, and then the game flatlined literally. I don't believe in the 3/3 herosolve nature and I don't really think you should either, it's just added stress and a false perception to overly exceed. Gamestates shouldn't be at the enjoyment of yourself, most often my reads are based on priority. I would like you to sort in that same fashion and I'll try to explain what I mean if you're willing to read it

[unwnd]

Fine with Andres starting and think massclaim is fine

Noraa I'll get to you soon, just balancing something else right now unrelated to this game

[unwnd]

OK well first off Noraa pump the brakes because this is the second person you've gotten into a slapfight with

This isn't how you make convincing arguments, you cant convince your own opponent that they're scum

[unwnd]

In terms of prioritizing reads I'll try and make this like a step 1-step 2-step 3 process:

Spoiler:

The difference between town and mafia is an informed vs. and uninformed minority. Scum doesn't need to sort people like town does, they only need to pretend.

Put yourself here.

[noraa]

There are 9 people alive so there are 8 of them you need to sort.

Now ask yourself

"What do I know based on the current gamestate?"

You know that FL has claimed vig enabler, Dunn has claimed cop (with an innocent on n_m), Insano has claimed 1-shot bodyguard, PlusJOYED has claimed town vig.

Then ask yourself

"Is what I believe of the current gamestate to be true?"

This is not limited to power roles, rather your own perception of the game. In my own case, there is a

possibility

that one of these claims are not true, but this is where prioritizing reads comes in. I know that the chance to hit scum in these claims at this point is probably down to one or zero, based on my own perception of the game. Not to be a broken record, but I personally believe Nopoint claimed Watcher Enabler as he saw it would be a good thing to claim based on what was going on. This process is not limited to just claims, you could replace "what you know" as a pool of players you townread and the situation would apply the same.

In that sense, you move on. You can come back to this thought later. In practice, this brings your pool down to 3 if you are to believe all claims. This is way less stressful to sort than 8 people, because you narrow your field.

Then you ask yourself

"What is it I want to know about the current gamestate?"

I think this is a process you skip over because instead of saying this, you assert your disposition and say

"I am town, so I should know and anyone who is against me is scum".

You should try asking people in the form of questions about things you don't know/or want to understand. I think this will help your towngame as you never try to formulate your reads and instead they seem to always come out of nowhere based on aggression and gut feeling. Gut is fine, but then eventually gut will have to turn into evidence. People would be more inclined to listen to you if you presented an argument that seemed plausible. It doesn't have to be definitively true, it just has to seem believable from a perspective that you are actually an uninformed townie and your inquiries represent this.

I can't really read you saying 'well this is how scum!me' would act because I'm not you. Instead you should say "based on my experience, scum may have a tendency to do (this) because of (applied logic based on experience, gamestate). This is only a template, I'm not trying to mold you into myself. You can be aggressive and have gut reads and represent this in your playstyle, but in your head you should work having a goal in mind instead of just getting into baseless arguments that span 20 pages.

After this, you bring it all together. What you know. What you want to know. What you believe you know. Then you follow through, and your posts reflect that. Last tip: Don't let yourself think that you have to know or that you can't change your mind. Just don't become obsessed, and instead of changing your mind on 10 different things, you could instead focus on one or two things. This will keep you from being overwhelmed and even seeming unclear to others. Hopefully this made sense.

[unwnd]

Stop bickering with another. Let her come to her own conclusions

Moreover, Noraa I want you to entertain the idea of being wrong just for a second

Where do you go next?

[unwnd]

Is there anything based on your push of Andres that you're uncertain about? Don't get yourself into a tunnel where you just start confbiasing everything they do as scum.

Andres you too, I can't believe I have to say this at all lol

[unwnd]

I am paying attention but see no compromise between either of you.

Let's put it this way: If Noraa is scum she's gonna keep this up. if you're scum the same logic applies. What I want to see is a ceasefire and then maybe reigning your thoughts in and giving the thread room to fucking breathe. I stated that I think there's probably scum on the nopoint wagon and from what I understand you believe it's Insano which is a start. For you anders, you're certain of Noraa/Insano?

[unwnd]

I think you're town Noraa but based on how I've observed your behavior both in this game and Large Normal, your reads are largely dependent on positive/negative reinforcement, being that people who townread you are locktown and people who scumread you are either bad/scum/misreading/meta/meta. Even your recent post reflects this, where you question your read on me just because I haven't said anything about your Andres fight, when I made it clear that I think it's overwrought and not very productive. If you find yourself in a position where you feel like you're not being heard, the best option is not to necessarily continue stubbornly and throw a fit, it's instead to consider if the things you're saying hold merit. I haven't really been able to get much out of your battle because the way I look at is 'well, Noraa is feeling attacked so she's going to interpret every single action a person makes as scummy and that's not gonna lead me anywhere.' It's fine to be confident, but confident isn't blind faith and just assuming you're always right. I told you this before and that's where I stand.

[unwnd]

I'm also VT by the way

[unwnd]

I'm not stomping on it, I consider your perspective but I have to also consider the intent behind your posts as well

People aren't robots, you should practice a bit of empathy and consideration

[unwnd]

Now we can fade Nora, and then vig Geraint. My most likely team theories are Noraa/Insaneo or Andres/Geraint right now, and I will always go Noraa over Andres here, if only because I'm willing to give Andres the benefit of the doubt over Noraa based on my experiences with both of them, and who I think is more likely, if town, to assist the game.

I can't see Noraa/Insano at all just based on the way the game has progressed and how Insano has treated her, why do you think this?

[unwnd]

I think killing Gera now would be a more peaceful solution with letting the vig decide between Noraa/Andres tonight. I think Noraa feels like everyone is against her and if she's scum then she's just going to continue to turtle and do the same things she's doing. Andres so far doesn't seem interested in doing anything but defending himself and accusing Noraa all the same, and I am quite tired of it and not willing to entertain either lim.

[unwnd]

I also want to challenge Gera's read on me which he had D2 and now he's simply shrugged his shoulders and said the equivalent of 'well I kinda suck and I'm not leader, reads are bad etc.' which is just lol

[unwnd]

I'm not stomping on it, I consider your perspective but I have to also consider the intent behind your posts as well

People aren't robots, you should practice a bit of empathy and consideration

no. u aren't stomping on my reads. Flavor and Andres are.

OK well

Flavor is a narcissist who believes he's always right, then when he isn't he goes this was my plan all along! self-meta joker movie 2019 starring joaquin phoenix

and Andres scumreads you as well so he's pretty much fighting you on the same terms you're giving him

[unwnd]

I think killing Gera now would be a more peaceful solution with letting the vig decide between Noraa/Andres tonight. I think Noraa feels like everyone is against her and if she's scum then she's just going to continue to turtle and do the same things she's doing. Andres so far doesn't seem interested in doing anything but defending himself and accusing Noraa all the same, and I am quite tired of it and not willing to entertain either lim.

I’m sorry but you’re not reading my posts if this is what you actually think. I’ve done more than just defend myself. I had a productive back to back with Insanoflex as well, which reveals some insistence on interpreting the game without Scum bussing despite the points I’ve put forth.

I've skimmed it because I can't find the clarity in your posts and would prefer if you just told me your thoughts while disengaged

[unwnd]

I think killing Gera now would be a more peaceful solution with letting the vig decide between Noraa/Andres tonight. I think Noraa feels like everyone is against her and if she's scum then she's just going to continue to turtle and do the same things she's doing. Andres so far doesn't seem interested in doing anything but defending himself and accusing Noraa all the same, and I am quite tired of it and not willing to entertain either lim.

?????
If someone is turtling that's not a good reason not to elim them. If anything it lends itself to going after them imo

It's different for Noraa in my opinion, yes it's meta but I think for the type of player she is that it applies way more often as she hasn't developed a self-aware mindset that actions do have consequences

[unwnd]

I think Dunn's plan is fine and I think it's self-resolving, PlusJOYED can get another shot off and if he's killed then Insano is forced to explain why you're dead. I don't know why we're keeping Gera around who is simply unwilling to do anything

[unwnd]

I've been making a common mistake lately where I say 'is it really just that easy' to myself and then it just happens to be. I don't wanna think about Noraa/Insano potentially being scum at this point. I think Gera's behavior at a base level is scummy and I don't think he feels pressured to change it as long as we give him passes.

[unwnd]

I think Dunn's plan is fine and I think it's self-resolving, PlusJOYED can get another shot off and if he's killed then Insano is forced to explain why you're dead. I don't know why we're keeping Gera around who is simply unwilling to do anything

Admitting that you can’t get a hold in the game is not typical Scum behavior. I’ve seen a lot of lost Town react the exact same way. That’s giving me pause, personally. I have made some other points previously that raised some red flags for me, but geraintm is insisting on going down the same route. It’s uncanny.

So in your position if you're town, do you think that scum (Noraa/Insano) are getting boxed in and trying to find their way out? As I said, one of them resolves itself and just continuing to prod Noraa will create more headaches.

[unwnd]

I don’t think I would see it the same way. Geraintm knows that at some level, if you keep going this way, you’ll get executed. It’s not good for your long-term survival to not put any views forward. So I would question this idea that geraintm is obviously Scummy and should be killed.

It's a stretch but he could be afraid of spewing his mate. The PoE is starting to thin out and I can't see myself giving Gera another pass the next day because we agree to disagree. I think Gera will continue to keep this up so long as it's unchecked, because the ultimate goal for scum is to simply survive. The methodology of doing so varies, but I don't see a glimmer of Gera even attempting to care about what's going on.

[unwnd]

VOTE: geraintm

Gera when you see this vote, back up your thoughts you had on me nearing D2 and if they've changed based on this day

[unwnd]

I don't think your solve makes sense from your perspective, Noraa is sitting at E-2(?) and I just make myself look like a goddamn fool if she flips scum. I'm willing to be a fool regardless and don't think Noraa is being dishonest in her discourse towards me nor the way she responded to my wall.

[unwnd]

That made me laugh, not in a 'haha you're wrong way' more like 'haha you got me figured me out'. I try to see the objectivity in games but as I said before, people aren't robots. I'm very attuned to emotions and believe that while we tell ourselves yes, this is a game, our emotions lead on more then we want them to. Is it not true that you got upset/annoyed at Noraa earlier? We're not in a room together and I can't see your face. I'm sure as you were typing towards Noraa it was mostly a blank expression but inside you let your contempt take the form of your words. This is basically me saying as objective as I want to be, I still see the tonal exchanges and put them in consideration.

[unwnd]

She literally was just hammered and is probably flipping town

What the fuck.

[unwnd]

N_M has to be secretly a godfather of something seriously

[unwnd]

N_M has to be secretly a godfather of something seriously

I mean this btw

[unwnd]

Jesus christ that was the scummiest fucking vote

[unwnd]

I'm pretty sure Noraa doesn't give up and self-vote as scum (because that is something she prides herself) in so this whole day has officially gone into the toiilet

[unwnd]

Not_Mafia was checked by Dunn so unless you think that Dunn is also part of the Team, Not_Mafia is not Scum.

You're probably right but let me have my delusions after what I witnessed

[unwnd]

PlusJOYED I doubt you're going to listen to me but please shoot Gera and then if it's wrong I will take the blame

[unwnd]

If you don't think that in any other game N_M's hammer wasn't scummy and the only line of defense is a result Dunn gave

IDK what to tell you