Mini Normal 2181 | College Basketball Players | Game Over


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Post Post #3150 (isolation #400) » Sat Dec 12, 2020 2:53 pm

Post by Cabd »

It's time tonight for the meeting of the notsci-ffery-cabd hydra that never was, I guess.
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Post Post #3255 (isolation #401) » Sat Dec 12, 2020 4:35 pm

Post by Cabd »

If ben's claim is true, scum have the flipped goon and two PRs.

Meh.

But we don't yeet it. We actually explicitly have him target somebody of my choice tonight, instead.
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Post Post #3259 (isolation #402) » Sat Dec 12, 2020 4:37 pm

Post by Cabd »

I don't actually hate the DGB wagon, hmm.

I expected to, but I don't.
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Post Post #3264 (isolation #403) » Sat Dec 12, 2020 4:40 pm

Post by Cabd »

After I settle my other reads? I may well subscribe to your product and or service.

Although I kinda want to skip the hullabaloo and run-up and just ask DGB if their softing was actually something or I'm reading empty tea leaves and oh hey, I just did.
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Post Post #3266 (isolation #404) » Sat Dec 12, 2020 4:49 pm

Post by Cabd »

Cool.
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Post Post #3267 (isolation #405) » Sat Dec 12, 2020 4:50 pm

Post by Cabd »

Anyways so ben and dgb are off the table.

Ffery and notsci. Sell me on your reads. Or wait for me to wall effort late into the evening hours after I finish Xmas prep. Family from out of state Xmas shindig tomorrow
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Post Post #3279 (isolation #406) » Sat Dec 12, 2020 4:56 pm

Post by Cabd »

Uhhhhh yeah no like it's very clearly something I am not gonna out further. Lazy scum can do their own homework
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Post Post #3297 (isolation #407) » Sat Dec 12, 2020 5:09 pm

Post by Cabd »

I mean it's like surface level crumbing such that I cought it several times. Y'all being in a death tunnel is just embarrassing at this point
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Post Post #3302 (isolation #408) » Sat Dec 12, 2020 5:22 pm

Post by Cabd »

Although like it should be obvious to you DGB. Why I said that a certain pairing it included you was extremely unlikely
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Post Post #3303 (isolation #409) » Sat Dec 12, 2020 5:29 pm

Post by Cabd »

Bork you significantly worry me again this game.

I don't know why. I can't place it.
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Post Post #3310 (isolation #410) » Sat Dec 12, 2020 5:34 pm

Post by Cabd »

Nah like. In a way different from scum?


Like if we got all scum deaded and the game didn't end I'd say bork was third party.
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Post Post #3337 (isolation #411) » Sat Dec 12, 2020 5:51 pm

Post by Cabd »

Heh. If we keep this activity up she's gonna try to play in the present then go back to the past and be very confused as to the major shifts since she started her DND night.
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Post Post #3343 (isolation #412) » Sat Dec 12, 2020 5:54 pm

Post by Cabd »

In post 3328, notscience wrote:Cabd do you think ffery could be scum?
Not really at this point. Revisit in five man if no more scum flips and not a moment sooner.
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Post Post #3349 (isolation #413) » Sat Dec 12, 2020 5:58 pm

Post by Cabd »

Pooky I haven't even mentioned you. Why on earth are you attributing these votes to me?
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Post Post #3354 (isolation #414) » Sat Dec 12, 2020 5:59 pm

Post by Cabd »

In post 3351, fferyllt wrote:I'm back.
Lol you're fucked. Have fun catching up.
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Post Post #3360 (isolation #415) » Sat Dec 12, 2020 6:03 pm

Post by Cabd »

Pooky, would you be actively unwilling to bus day one if it was useful to a red pm? You're kinda getting into trust tell territory here and it's icky and stop.
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Post Post #3373 (isolation #416) » Sat Dec 12, 2020 6:11 pm

Post by Cabd »

Elements was blocked night one though.

I guess the elements partner shot peta in the face in a scum elements world. But it can't be elements and vax. Its unlikely to be elements and Ben. I don't think notsci or Ffery are scum in any world.
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Post Post #3375 (isolation #417) » Sat Dec 12, 2020 6:12 pm

Post by Cabd »

Yeah. And then I saw It through with my ah hah moment.
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Post Post #3383 (isolation #418) » Sat Dec 12, 2020 6:22 pm

Post by Cabd »

Explain what. Why I know elements was blocked?
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Post Post #3384 (isolation #419) » Sat Dec 12, 2020 6:22 pm

Post by Cabd »

In post 3379, fferyllt wrote:
In post 3259, Cabd wrote:I don't actually hate the DGB wagon, hmm.

I expected to, but I don't.
In post 3264, Cabd wrote:After I settle my other reads? I may well subscribe to your product and or service.

Although I kinda want to skip the hullabaloo and run-up and just ask DGB if their softing was actually something or I'm reading empty tea leaves and oh hey, I just did.
These two posts so close together don't make sense to me.

People ON the wagon. But meh.
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Post Post #3387 (isolation #420) » Sat Dec 12, 2020 6:25 pm

Post by Cabd »

In post 3386, fferyllt wrote:
In post 3383, Cabd wrote:Explain what. Why I know elements was blocked?
I went looking for crumbs and didn't see whatever you saw.
Do you ACTUALLY want me to do that?
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Post Post #3388 (isolation #421) » Sat Dec 12, 2020 6:25 pm

Post by Cabd »

Like is knowing how I know it actually going to help? Do you not trust that I know it for a reason?
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Post Post #3391 (isolation #422) » Sat Dec 12, 2020 6:27 pm

Post by Cabd »

In post 3389, Prism wrote:Petapan is literally dead. He's not going to crumb again for you this game. Just out it dude.
Both presidents continuing to not get it two games in a row I see.
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Post Post #3393 (isolation #423) » Sat Dec 12, 2020 6:29 pm

Post by Cabd »

I explicitly don't want to explain why. And it'll be super obvious why later.

But I will if my townreads feel it would help them somehow to know. It absolutely is a fact in evidence.
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Post Post #3399 (isolation #424) » Sat Dec 12, 2020 6:33 pm

Post by Cabd »

Pooky this is a dust cloud. It's here because I want things murkier than the biggest ogre swamp ever.
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Post Post #3402 (isolation #425) » Sat Dec 12, 2020 6:48 pm

Post by Cabd »

So lady Ffery of the llt. What is your take on all of this now that you've had time to chew your food data?
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Post Post #3404 (isolation #426) » Sat Dec 12, 2020 7:00 pm

Post by Cabd »

Well. Operate under the logic that elements was 100% blocked last night.


No need to itch.
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Post Post #3411 (isolation #427) » Sun Dec 13, 2020 4:46 am

Post by Cabd »

In post 3407, fferyllt wrote:No answer?
Yeah I was asleep. Having nightmares of my dad shooting himself in front of me. Very pleasant night I tell you.
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Post Post #3412 (isolation #428) » Sun Dec 13, 2020 5:40 am

Post by Cabd »

Positive covid test in the family....

Sorry in advance for being a hot mess until our test weds.
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Post Post #3414 (isolation #429) » Sun Dec 13, 2020 6:03 am

Post by Cabd »

Sadly, my mother seems to have symptoms, we're hunkered down with our 18 month old until further notice, while she quarantines elsewhere.
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Post Post #3422 (isolation #430) » Sun Dec 13, 2020 8:40 am

Post by Cabd »

In post 3421, Elements wrote:
In post 3420, fferyllt wrote:Elements what does your reads list look like now?
Skitter town
Vax town

That's about it. After the red flip I decided my reads were utter garbage which, tbf, could probably have been predicted anyway.
You have... no opinion about the way the syr wagon went down and the players pushing it?

Like how does anyone not have an opinion about not science at this point?
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Post Post #3424 (isolation #431) » Sun Dec 13, 2020 8:47 am

Post by Cabd »

...
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Post Post #3428 (isolation #432) » Sun Dec 13, 2020 8:52 am

Post by Cabd »

In post 3427, notscience wrote:Imagine not having a read on the player who turned the spotlight on the flipped scum yesterday
Or the player who then saw it through.
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Post Post #3432 (isolation #433) » Sun Dec 13, 2020 9:02 am

Post by Cabd »

You claiming catalyst to this chemical reaction or wat
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Post Post #3441 (isolation #434) » Sun Dec 13, 2020 11:01 am

Post by Cabd »

VOTE: Elements

I think i'm here despite the block.
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Post Post #3443 (isolation #435) » Sun Dec 13, 2020 11:22 am

Post by Cabd »

This feels like how we got to obtusebear in illicit.
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Post Post #3444 (isolation #436) » Sun Dec 13, 2020 11:28 am

Post by Cabd »

Ffery, unless you're taking your afternoon nap, now's the time to realtime interact with me, but you won't get the deep analysis.

Too few spoons :/
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Post Post #3447 (isolation #437) » Sun Dec 13, 2020 12:29 pm

Post by Cabd »

I mean I'm still around. Hope you got solid sleep.
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Post Post #3449 (isolation #438) » Sun Dec 13, 2020 12:35 pm

Post by Cabd »

What, you finally over m?



I'd say my ego is hurt, but given IRL bullshit, happy to skip the day two/three meltdown and skip directly to go, collecting my additional $200.
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Post Post #3451 (isolation #439) » Sun Dec 13, 2020 12:46 pm

Post by Cabd »

"A whole new woooooorlldddddd"
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Post Post #3455 (isolation #440) » Sun Dec 13, 2020 2:30 pm

Post by Cabd »

My problem is essentially POE at this point, ya know?
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Post Post #3457 (isolation #441) » Sun Dec 13, 2020 2:35 pm

Post by Cabd »

Off The Table
DrippingGoofball - I buy the softing, will become obviously faking it soon enough, off table today
benhalkum - Is either legit FN or will become obviously faking it soon enough, off table today
fferyllt - Unlikely Syr Partner
Cabd - Hi
notscience - Unlikely Syr Partner
skitter30 - Unlikely Syr partner
Prism -Unlikely Syr partner, less so than the others but yah


On The Table
PookyTheMagicalBear
borkjerfkin
Vaxkiller
Elements
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Post Post #3459 (isolation #442) » Sun Dec 13, 2020 2:40 pm

Post by Cabd »

Maybe but I'm a stubborn grump about him and the stupid prism shit.
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Post Post #3461 (isolation #443) » Sun Dec 13, 2020 2:50 pm

Post by Cabd »

Yeah I'm not claiming to be logical here.

Old covid-infested man yells at clouds
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Post Post #3462 (isolation #444) » Sun Dec 13, 2020 2:50 pm

Post by Cabd »

Ffery get out of your scum PT and talk to me about that list.
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Post Post #3464 (isolation #445) » Sun Dec 13, 2020 3:00 pm

Post by Cabd »

Too standoffish. Seems like.. upset at my getting the syr elim, keeps complaining about agency loss like I'm somehow telling him what to do?
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Post Post #3469 (isolation #446) » Sun Dec 13, 2020 3:18 pm

Post by Cabd »

Ffery I dont think syr was in a good enough mental state to theater those interactions and the weirdness around the newbie game stuff with skitter.
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Post Post #3471 (isolation #447) » Sun Dec 13, 2020 3:19 pm

Post by Cabd »

I think bork is settling into a spot in my reads like he occupied before, notsci townreading him be damned. He's in the poe and I don't want him to be but here we are and no need to wait until three man after we all lemmings ourself off the cliff.
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Post Post #3473 (isolation #448) » Sun Dec 13, 2020 3:26 pm

Post by Cabd »

I mean If elements redflips, we pretty much instant win? If not then we have to try a bit harder from there.
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Post Post #3475 (isolation #449) » Sun Dec 13, 2020 3:28 pm

Post by Cabd »

I actually don't mind a massclaim upon our next redflip. Encourage it, at that.
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Post Post #3476 (isolation #450) » Sun Dec 13, 2020 3:39 pm

Post by Cabd »

This feels like another "scum salty at setup and PR distrobution clearing our easy mislims" game.

And people who are low-content are in that pile.

Bork feels like he's intentionally NOT being present sometimes. (The irony of me saying this after that getting thrown at me day one is delicious, as are your tears)
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Post Post #3478 (isolation #451) » Sun Dec 13, 2020 3:41 pm

Post by Cabd »

If I'm in 3p with prism and bork, I'm shooting bork ten times.
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Post Post #3481 (isolation #452) » Sun Dec 13, 2020 3:48 pm

Post by Cabd »

In post 3480, skitter30 wrote:i really can't imagine how we'd even end up in that 3way
I was being amused, not stating it was a serious 3-way possibility.
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Post Post #3483 (isolation #453) » Sun Dec 13, 2020 3:54 pm

Post by Cabd »

Whatever, we can have town power roles do the obvious thing once we flipskies elements one way or the other.

let's get this damn show on the road.

Claim or whatever yeah?
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Post Post #3485 (isolation #454) » Sun Dec 13, 2020 3:59 pm

Post by Cabd »

NGL i wanna pull a bell and just close my eyes and murdererererer both of ya.

I also think that a petapan nightkill fits a team with bork in it. Not that it doesn't fit one without it, mind you, but murdering peta serves him gamestate wise.
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Post Post #3487 (isolation #455) » Sun Dec 13, 2020 4:01 pm

Post by Cabd »

In post 3457, Cabd wrote:PookyTheMagicalBear
borkjerfkin
Vaxkiller
Elements
Vaxkiller currently has stuff going for them, but it's weak.

so really I think yeeting all of {elements, Bork, Pooky} is gonna get us another red flip, possibly both of them.
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Post Post #3488 (isolation #456) » Sun Dec 13, 2020 4:02 pm

Post by Cabd »

And pooky is my townread if I had to pick one of the three.
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Post Post #3491 (isolation #457) » Sun Dec 13, 2020 4:08 pm

Post by Cabd »

Arceus damn what is with all the random ass 1v1 slap fights this game.
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Post Post #3494 (isolation #458) » Sun Dec 13, 2020 4:10 pm

Post by Cabd »

I don't townread him explicitly. I just townread him more than the other two names in the list.


He's still in my elimination like of deathly death.
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Post Post #3497 (isolation #459) » Sun Dec 13, 2020 4:10 pm

Post by Cabd »

You undermeant what I stood just fine.
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Post Post #3498 (isolation #460) » Sun Dec 13, 2020 4:11 pm

Post by Cabd »

Anyways elements get out of your scum pt and come on down. You're the lext contestant on "The Elim is Right". Please spay and neuter your pets.
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Post Post #3502 (isolation #461) » Sun Dec 13, 2020 4:16 pm

Post by Cabd »

I hate it when my townreads don't love each other :~(

Can we murder elements yet?
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Post Post #3505 (isolation #462) » Sun Dec 13, 2020 4:19 pm

Post by Cabd »

I exist to suffer yelling at obtuse players to vote my scum reads, only to have satisfaction when they flip read, just to rinse and repeat with the next set of obtuseness.

Am I pushing a boulder up a hill with a bird nearby ready to devour my heart or what.
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Post Post #3506 (isolation #463) » Sun Dec 13, 2020 4:19 pm

Post by Cabd »

In post 3504, borkjerfkin wrote:I'd rather pooky then elements
Okay... but like, why?
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Post Post #3509 (isolation #464) » Sun Dec 13, 2020 4:22 pm

Post by Cabd »

In post 3454, skitter30 wrote:wait since when am i good at reading you?
In post 3507, skitter30 wrote:i don't have any particular reason to believe you'd be better at reading elements than me
...
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Post Post #3510 (isolation #465) » Sun Dec 13, 2020 4:22 pm

Post by Cabd »

In post 3508, borkjerfkin wrote:I think pooky seems scummier than elements. I'm trying to find an avenue to scumread elements and failing

both are in your PoE, no?
my POE is those two names, and you. And vax slightly above you three...
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Post Post #3512 (isolation #466) » Sun Dec 13, 2020 4:27 pm

Post by Cabd »

In post 3511, skitter30 wrote:heck even the syr vote that tipped you off to him being scum - elements voted u immediately therefater and that vote doesn't come from scum, and it even mroe so doesn't come right after their partner did it
Expand this one out for me, I seem to be mis-remembering.
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Post Post #3532 (isolation #467) » Sun Dec 13, 2020 5:49 pm

Post by Cabd »

In post 3527, fferyllt wrote:
In post 3502, Cabd wrote:I hate it when my townreads don't love each other :~(

Can we murder elements yet?
Your self-trust levels have gone way up.
"Things in life I can control" vs "Things in Life I have to wait for Weds until"

I just want data for the data gods and feel really solid about my town list. Do you disagree with any name in the top area tag?
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Post Post #3540 (isolation #468) » Mon Dec 14, 2020 3:59 am

Post by Cabd »

In post 3538, Vaxkiller wrote:I dunno. Pooky says he doesn't buss day 1 tho.... and to break that rule for a small game?
This topic is really off the table.

Do you disagree with any of the name sin the top half of my reads list?
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Post Post #3542 (isolation #469) » Mon Dec 14, 2020 4:09 am

Post by Cabd »

Close enough, yes.
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Post Post #3548 (isolation #470) » Mon Dec 14, 2020 4:51 am

Post by Cabd »

IKR?
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Post Post #3551 (isolation #471) » Mon Dec 14, 2020 4:55 am

Post by Cabd »

Vax, are you a midwaybears alt?

No judgement.
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Post Post #3554 (isolation #472) » Mon Dec 14, 2020 5:01 am

Post by Cabd »

You're being a very obtuse bear, Vax.
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Post Post #3556 (isolation #473) » Mon Dec 14, 2020 5:02 am

Post by Cabd »

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Post Post #3560 (isolation #474) » Mon Dec 14, 2020 9:40 am

Post by Cabd »

In post 3559, notscience wrote:
In post 3554, Cabd wrote:You're being a very obtuse bear, Vax.

Without cobra Kai to wrist slap him
But you're right here? Just make an in-thread PT.
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Post Post #3566 (isolation #475) » Mon Dec 14, 2020 2:46 pm

Post by Cabd »

In post 3565, skitter30 wrote:y aren't we voting dgb again?
Because she's very clearly a town PR, you insolent clod.
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Post Post #3569 (isolation #476) » Mon Dec 14, 2020 2:49 pm

Post by Cabd »

Yes, I am aware.

He IS cleared of being scum with elements, though!
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Post Post #3571 (isolation #477) » Mon Dec 14, 2020 2:50 pm

Post by Cabd »

...is that meme not widely known these days?

I feel old.
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Post Post #3577 (isolation #478) » Mon Dec 14, 2020 2:53 pm

Post by Cabd »

Guess there's not really any slashdotters around then.

Sad.
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Post Post #3582 (isolation #479) » Mon Dec 14, 2020 2:58 pm

Post by Cabd »

I wish this prism had been here day one instead of deathtunnel tryhard prism, but this is the world we live in.
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Post Post #3603 (isolation #480) » Tue Dec 15, 2020 6:31 am

Post by Cabd »

No claim, or anything?

Sigh.

This game.
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Post Post #3606 (isolation #481) » Tue Dec 15, 2020 6:44 am

Post by Cabd »

Data for the data gods, eh cobrakai?
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Post Post #3608 (isolation #482) » Tue Dec 15, 2020 6:46 am

Post by Cabd »

This is more a illict day three than a xenoblade day two, that's for sure!
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Post Post #3621 (isolation #483) » Tue Dec 15, 2020 7:19 am

Post by Cabd »

In post 3619, Vaxkiller wrote:I don't like how part of the reasoning behind it is being pushed forth.... Vax/Elements cant be scum together.
Why not?

It's very obvious why this is the case, that statement is 150% true.
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Post Post #3624 (isolation #484) » Tue Dec 15, 2020 7:37 am

Post by Cabd »

yeah not disocunting that.

I'm just saying it's a possibility matrix of:

T-T
T-S
S-T

but not S-S
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Post Post #3708 (isolation #485) » Wed Dec 16, 2020 4:08 am

Post by Cabd »

In post 3706, DrippingGoofball wrote:I don't like how Elements has disappeared.
Welcome to literally elements all game.
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Post Post #3709 (isolation #486) » Wed Dec 16, 2020 4:18 am

Post by Cabd »

..negative covid result.

I'm not crying, you're crying.
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Post Post #3722 (isolation #487) » Wed Dec 16, 2020 6:20 am

Post by Cabd »

Data for the data gods.

Deadline looms.
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Post Post #3730 (isolation #488) » Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:44 am

Post by Cabd »

In post 3729, skitter30 wrote:I'm sorry but that's kind of an icky way to abdicate responsibility while being able to wipe your handa clean if this is a misflip
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Post Post #3742 (isolation #489) » Wed Dec 16, 2020 9:54 am

Post by Cabd »

In post 3737, fferyllt wrote:
In post 3734, fferyllt wrote:can you address my niggles?
@Cabd
Not right now I can't...


Tonight, maybe.
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Post Post #3751 (isolation #490) » Wed Dec 16, 2020 3:13 pm

Post by Cabd »

lmao gottem
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Post Post #3753 (isolation #491) » Wed Dec 16, 2020 3:16 pm

Post by Cabd »

In post 3752, fferyllt wrote:~vertigo~
I~
Don't~
Think~
I~
Can~
Help~
Your~
Concerns~
About~
Elements~

...because it's not dream-strength but it's a gutping and POE.

Do you want my lazy ass case like cakez got in xeno D1?
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Post Post #3762 (isolation #492) » Wed Dec 16, 2020 3:49 pm

Post by Cabd »

We can do bork.

I won't actively stop it. It's notsci who argues against it.
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Post Post #3763 (isolation #493) » Wed Dec 16, 2020 3:49 pm

Post by Cabd »

I maintain that flipping bork, pooks, elements, and vax is gonna be a win.
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Post Post #3838 (isolation #494) » Thu Dec 17, 2020 10:02 am

Post by Cabd »

DGB i will give you spooks today.

But when I die you gotta go on to LIVE my lass.
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Post Post #3861 (isolation #495) » Thu Dec 17, 2020 3:18 pm

Post by Cabd »

In post 3860, DrippingGoofball wrote:VOTE: fferyllt
Not a snowball's chance in hell, i'd sooner assume you're a scum PR
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Post Post #3877 (isolation #496) » Thu Dec 17, 2020 5:06 pm

Post by Cabd »

Elements flip is science at this point.
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Post Post #3878 (isolation #497) » Thu Dec 17, 2020 5:06 pm

Post by Cabd »

Just give me the data fam. And fuck pooky over with a hammer instead of letting him get away with ignoring his editors deadlines.
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Post Post #3881 (isolation #498) » Thu Dec 17, 2020 5:09 pm

Post by Cabd »

You're welcome to pop your day suicide bomber on your scum buddy and exit and I'll forgive you.
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Post Post #3882 (isolation #499) » Thu Dec 17, 2020 5:09 pm

Post by Cabd »

Pooky my family literally descents from the american italian mafia. I lost family in the valintines day massacre.
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Post Post #3883 (isolation #500) » Thu Dec 17, 2020 5:11 pm

Post by Cabd »

Phone posting is annoying but that's what happens when you've got a young one who much prefers dad to the crib as a sleeping vessel.
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Post Post #3887 (isolation #501) » Thu Dec 17, 2020 5:28 pm

Post by Cabd »

That lock was random?
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Post Post #3890 (isolation #502) » Thu Dec 17, 2020 5:42 pm

Post by Cabd »

The thread was locked for like ten minutes.
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Post Post #3907 (isolation #503) » Thu Dec 17, 2020 6:33 pm

Post by Cabd »

Scabs.
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Post Post #3908 (isolation #504) » Thu Dec 17, 2020 6:34 pm

Post by Cabd »

Going to sleep. No more from me alas.
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Post Post #5485 (isolation #505) » Fri Jan 22, 2021 5:09 am

Post by Cabd »

My understanding is that the people who have to answer for this setup are the NRG...

Also, fwiw, mod, I agree that replacing an alt with ANOTHER alt midgame is a big fucking "nope".
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Post Post #5489 (isolation #506) » Fri Jan 22, 2021 5:24 am

Post by Cabd »

In post 5487, NoPowerOverMe wrote:But in the end it ended up being balanced.
This is 100000000% not the case, just because scum won doesn't mean it was balanced.
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Post Post #5502 (isolation #507) » Fri Jan 22, 2021 5:43 am

Post by Cabd »

Nope, blocked bork N2 aggressively.
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Post Post #5506 (isolation #508) » Fri Jan 22, 2021 5:48 am

Post by Cabd »

That's mod error.

I submitted a second PM before deadline changing my roleblock to elements.
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Post Post #5507 (isolation #509) » Fri Jan 22, 2021 5:49 am

Post by Cabd »

Re: Mini normal 2181 contuation

Sent: Mon Dec 07, 2020 8:54 pm
From: Cabd
To: NoPowerOverMe

NoPowerOverMe wrote:
Mini normal 2181 is continuing


On second thought, let's change that to elements. For the jailkeep.
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Post Post #5554 (isolation #510) » Sat Jan 23, 2021 9:49 am

Post by Cabd »

The last I'll say about this setup is that if your ONLY consideration is on-paper balance, you're failing your players because agency is just as important.

Both alignments should feel like day AND night play is a result of their choices, not something that the cosmic powers that be have inflicted upon them.
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