Mini Normal 2187: PIFiMDM [game over!]

[Hayker]

vote:papa zito

We played games way back in the day and I remember the screen name.

Ducks , Hayker, monster, hayk. Im not too worried about what yiu guys call me really. Its been a long while since I've played on this site. Used to play a lot on Epicmafia, as well as many other smaller forums.

Outside some among us, which feela very different, im out of practice. Am excited to get into this one though.

I'm nit sure it matters how discussion gets going , merely that we start it and create back forth to allow us to create our reads.

[Hayker]

Alchemist, I'm curious about your current thoughts on Elements. You voted him early on , asking him about their post, and havent seemed to elaborate much on the subject since then.

[Hayker]

vote:elements

I strongly dislike leaving a vote with no explanation. I'm not sure if the votes on lunar quite count as a bandwagon, but they feel opportunistic to me.

[Hayker]

I'm very comfortable with my vote on elements right now. He pushed someone elses vote, opportunistically hopped on the lunar wagon, OMGUS voted me. I feel the pressure is where it is needed for now.

Can you explain your last two votes elements?

[Hayker]

I like Alchemist and Gamma
VOTE: penguin

Why vote Penguin here?

I've still got a large chunk of the player list to get through

I know you said you tend to vote most everyone, but why are you still doing votes equivelent to RVS votes. This feels very much like active lurking to me.

[Hayker]

I think most of the time "slips" aren't actually slips for either alignment (outside of the newbie queue).

I second this. I have seen very very few slips over the years of playing this game. A townslip would be rather easy to fake as well.

[Hayker]

^
What's so hard to read about me?

When you post a question like this. I know this one isn't directed at me, but if I were to say why I find hard to read about you. This question throws me off, it comes off as more defensive of your actions, as opposed to trying to evaluate your read. Most of your posts come off very well, but then a post like this throws me off

[Hayker]

VOTE: gamma

Can you elaborate on this vote? Is this another one of your rabdom votes or is there actual weight behind this?

[Hayker]

Your prerogative - as stated, that's not what I assume.

I rather foolishly may have invited both 2ndchosen1 and Kazyan to join this game. I assure you they are both simply rookies to forum mafia and have played mafia adjacent games. I really should have done it with a Newbie game is hindsight, but what is done is done.

[Hayker]

So I spent a large part of my day yesterday reviewing an old game I played. Due to it, I believe Papa Zito to be town. Ill admit using meta from a long time ago is a bit foolish, but it gives me a read on him for the time being.

I still dislike Elememts, but id like to take a some time to put pressure on Ben. Id like to place

FoS:ben

his behavior in many ways reminds me of zito in KH mafia. He is a very active player, but a lot of his early game posts were arguing zbout game theory, which as Zito thankfully pointed out, was not advancing discussion. He's had few comments here and there that come off as buddying, such as a small comment Bsn madd toward Kazyan about knowing whats up. Been waffling on NPOM all day.

[Hayker]

how wrong would it be to TR ben for that thing that just happened

Stupid question, what does TR mean?

[Hayker]

So I spent a large part of my day yesterday reviewing an old game I played. Due to it, I believe Papa Zito to be town. Ill admit using meta from a long time ago is a bit foolish, but it gives me a read on him for the time being.

Hayker, can you go into specifically what about Zito's meta created this read for you?

In KH mafia he spent a lot of time speaking about the fluffier elements in the game. A disemblodied voice was talking to us for awhile, and Zito was quick to engage in long winded discussion regarding it's place, even though it was just talking to us. He also analyzed generic game data, how many posts and so forth, while requesting prods for players from our mod. The rest of his posts will comments on other posts, occasionally throwing out things he found suspicious while applying no pressure.

This game he has come out swinging hard, applying votes, asking questions, trying to dig for information. I found Zito's exchange with Kazyan in particular to be interesting. It felt like his questions were both intended to get into Kazyan's mind, while also providing insight to a new player in this game.

Now I will once again note there has been a literally decade since back then, but I feel there is a huge difference in playstyle.

[Hayker]

I still very much feel elements is scum, since Friday he has asked for support on two wagons, supported another, and then a silent vote on Alchemist. One of the votes is basicslly asking dann is he'd like to wagon with him. This seems to be an empty persuit for now.

Of the current wagons, i like penguins Iso a bit more every time I read the posts. My biggest sus, elements, has pushed the alchemist wagon several times heavily. I also think Kazyan played rather nervously when the pressure was on them, and I'd like to know why.

vote:kazyan

[Hayker]

[quote="In [url=viewtopic.php?p=12459695#p12459695]post
Pushing this early seems weird, since there wasn't really anything to push about. Wagoning on an early disruption is vaguely scummy, as I've explained in a previous

I don't like this either. You and Hayker aren't buddy-buddy's.

I'm feeling LM is town now from his recent posts.

Hayker was the one who prodded me into joining Mafiascum.net, so I'm overcohering to his post. It does, however, appear to be a good summary of Element's choices that I'm skeptical over. Additionally, after my previous goof, I don't actually trust myself to get a good understanding of Elements's actions without some sort of outside validation. So I keep gesturing vaguely at Hayker because they said something that I completely agree with, and I don't know what else to say besides what Hayker said.

This post in particular Kazyan. The first bit about repeating yourself, while can come off as frustration, can also be read as you simply not wanting to dig yourself into a further hole. Something I've personally witnessed in among us with you.

The next bit was you even admitting you didnt know elde to say, followed by gesturing towards me in quite a lot of words.

Anyways, it seems we have an E-1.

[Hayker]

I mean, sure, but I still don't get why that makes me scum.

Hammer is in hand, but I'm gonna listen to another post or two from NPOM in case he talks us down.

Traditionally we wait for a role claim⁹⁸

[Hayker]

Agar, I invite you to read Papa Zito's iso in kh mafia and tell me what you see in the playbstyle differences

viewtopic.php?t=12809&f=56&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

As for why I didnt directly respond right away, I've been told in the oast it's not really a good use of time to respond to random wayward arguments towards you. I am aware I was asked to speculate in Agar's return, I have hsd very limited power on my phone as my electrical just was setup this morning from a moving process I did.

I'm a doctor btw, since I've been brought to L-1. Get off me.

[Hayker]

I don't believe alchemists claim either.

vote:alchemist

I Don't think both a doc and a bp cop are in the same game.

[Hayker]

A town doctor and a town machocop in the same game? Are you kidding me? I sincerely doubt such a setup would get cleared these days on this site. A town doc/cop combo can be powerful enough as is. I hammered for the obvious lie it was. How was I to expect it was a bad townie lie.

[Hayker]

Haha i completely misread macho. Welll shit im gonna go laugh myself to sleep

[Hayker]

I protected you Dan. I did completely misread macho on the wiki. Would not have hammered him otherwise. I essentially read it as a BP modifier on cop and assumed it was an imppssible combo to let get into a game.

[Hayker]

@Hayker:
In your hammer post, you stated:

I Don't think both a doc and a

bp cop

are in the same game.

(emphasis mine) So the BP confusion was present yesterday before the hammer.


However

I protected you Dan. I did completely misread macho

on the wiki

. Would not have hammered him otherwise. I essentially read it as a BP modifier on cop and assumed it was an imppssible combo to let get into a game.

(again, emphasis mine) The Macho entry on the Wiki is extremely short, and explicit.

Macho is a role modifier that prevents players from being protected from kills in any way.

The modifier was first developed as a way to neutralise Follow the Cop strategies that exist in Cop/Doctor set-ups, preventing the Cop from gaining the Doctor's protection. Macho Cop is still the most common role associated with this modifier, but other roles have used it for balance and design reasons.

There's no way to "misread" this. It states blatantly that the modifier means the cop can't be protected. There's no mention of the term "bulletproof" anywhere and there's no way to misread this as such.

Unless you'd care to explain.

Macho is a role modifier that prevents players from being protected from kills in any way.

I know the senyence I misread was this one. Not sure exactly where the wire crossed but this was it

[Hayker]

vote:elements

Will get a better post up tonight, finally have internet setup in my new place wont have to post with my phone tonight.

[Hayker]

To really explain my misread guys, is I have ben playing this game primarily from my phone since the 31'st of December. It's been slow and cumbersome. I much appreciate having a keyboard to one again type my thoughts as opposed to a terrible touch screen that I find hugely frustrating to use. I am a doctor, I'm not sure what else to say. I don't know what we are missing here.

[Hayker]

unvote

I still think elements is worth looking at but I don't think any pressure will form on elements today. Currently re-rereading todays posts. Will do some isoing afterwards

[Hayker]

What they're doing IMO is either

1) Aware that (Hayker) is bound to die and trying to accredit themselves in ways that will make them look townier
2) Ignoring what's going on and trying to play fool as town will likely be more cautious about those who are inhibiting 1) behavior

You forgot option 3) Force an easy town lynch on the scummy looking town doctor.

I admit I made a pretty major error in judgement, but all I've done is create an easy situation for the scum to push the wagon right over me. Now everyones mindset is locked into one way of thinking and wont consider other options. If you guys are so worried about offing me, point the vig shot in my direction. The town points the vig shots after all right. So lets get back to hunting scum and not burning the town doctor as a witch.

[Hayker]

!!!!!!!!!! BEGIN PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT !!!!!!!!!!


PLAYSTYLE DISCUSSIONS DO NOT FIND SCUM

THIS GAME IS ENDLESSLY DEBATING PLAYSTYLE NONSENSE

LET'S FOCUS ON MESSAGE AND INTENT INSTEAD

THANK YOU IN ADVANCE


!!!!!!!!!! END PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT !!!!!!!!!!

this is still one of the towniest posts in the game tbh i forgot about this

And people question my read of him? In kh mafia he literally spent time speculating on this crap as long as he could justify.

[Hayker]

vote:hayker

My apologies to you mod

[Hayker]

I just wanted to say I'm super proud of both 2nd and Kazyan. I shamelessly threw them into a fire and felt they both overall played very well.

[Hayker]

Datisi, I would love to play in a setup of yours again. This was really really fun. The IC in this setup was super intersting. The paranoia aspect really affected him day by day. Especially since town was willing to sheep him.

We did get pretty lucky with a lot of the night kills.i think the setup was a bit town sided perhaps, bit its hard to tell with these things.

[Hayker]

That would be awesome. Im currently planning a couple games myself. I just hope my effed up modding game counts as experience still lolol. I wanna run a Paranoia flavour mini theme and a large theme. Tho they are a ways off, need to thepry craft beyond the concept