Mini Normal 2185 | EFoBBBiO | Game Over!

[Lunar Martian]

People were literally laughing at me because I was voting "confirmed" Town. You have to give yourself and your fellow Town more credit than that. People don't just automatically vote like that in elo. Anyway, again. Not a discussion for right here and now. Who are your current scumreads and why?

[Lunar Martian]

Mechanically I think it makes sense for there to be two Mafia with potential access to the hood, especially since one is a back-up. Luca isn't in the hood, right?

[Lunar Martian]

Two Mafia backups makes the game a lot less swingy, because there's not really any scenario where Mafia has a chance of winning the game where they don't at some point gain access to the hood. The game could get thrown out of whack with only one back-up who dies early. This also suggests that maybe Ejji could be Mafia, but I still think there's no reason for Ejji as Mafia to hard defend me the way he did.

[Lunar Martian]

I explained why there might be 2 scum backups.

[Lunar Martian]

I'm really lacking motivation for this game right now. I feel like just eliminating ejj tbh.

Before the fakeclaim, I thought ejj was scum by PoE. Now I'm back to being of the same opinion, but even more so given they were being deliberately deceptive.

I don't think Lunar is scum. Gamma has seemed Townish most of the game, and two scum back-up neighbors would be strange. There's also the fact that the BG died N1, so scum probably knew about Galron being a PR.

VOTE: Luca

Ejji please unvote and contribute.

[Lunar Martian]

I still feel like it's probably lunar out of those two, but I've been toying with ISOing the flipped scum and seeing what their interactions with everyone had been

I just don't see how Town could honestly think that. Please, whichever one of you is Town, just Towntell.

[Lunar Martian]

I have two suspects and two lims remaining.

[Lunar Martian]

I really don't see how you got to ejji being off the table based on reading the last 5 pages

Is it frustrating that I won't vote there? Is that why you're having to resort to pushing me?

[Lunar Martian]

No, I'm trying to figure out why your PoE is the way it is, in order to determine your alignment
unless you can effectively address the above concern I'm left to conclude you're scum who's letting your perspective slip.

Trying to strongarm me into doing what you want is not what Town does.

VOTE: Gamma

[Lunar Martian]

I've explained my perspective.

[Lunar Martian]

It's within my last 20 posts. Mafia wouldn't make that play and it doesnt override my previous Townread.

[Lunar Martian]

If I were scum I could very much just take things as they seem from you, you don't exactly make yourself the towniest person
But I'm actually asking questions because I seek to understand you here.

You seek to seem as though you seek to understand me. That's different.

[Lunar Martian]

For the same reason the questions are bogus the push would be bogus too. I've already stated this stuff.

[Lunar Martian]

Did you read the game?

[Lunar Martian]

There's no chance there's two Mafia left right? Jeez one of you is struggling here. Luca why are you excluding Gamma from consideration?

[Lunar Martian]

VOTE: Amélie

This is my strongest suspicion at the moment.

134 135 137 don't really add much to the situation.

138 is another example of saying something without really saying anything. It's the kind of thing I could see scum saying just for content's sake. I also agree with Gamma's 142 in response to this.

139 I completely disagree with her reads here, and it generally seems a lazy attempt at a solve to link all the supposed 'townbloc' as being the scum team.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Bugs

I feel more confident about this atm. I really dislike Amélie‘s reads and the way she formulates them, but it could be a clash of play styles more than anything. She reminds me of the kind of player I’d tunnel and end up mislynching in the past.

That vote came out of nowhere, possibly a late bus attempt.

Lunar should claim in their next post.

I haven’t really caught up yet, but I’m willing to go along with this.

VOTE: ORAM

VOTE: Bugs

VOTE: Momrangal

Couldn’t resist.

VOTE: Bugspray

i accept no other substitutes for an elim this day.

This.

VOTE: Bugspray

I can get behind Frogster's reasoning here. There's not much separating Lunar/Outworld, but Lunar probably has more towntelly posts and was pushed for elim by both Bugs and Momrangal D1. There's no point eliminating ejj due to their claim, as that will self-resolve anyway.

VOTE: OutworldER

E-1

All of Luca's votes plus one or two bonus posts.

[Lunar Martian]

Personality test are always the worst part of a hiring process when you submit an application for work

That’s not an answer. The 10 RQS questions aren’t solely personality questions.
And in the context of a mafia game, reads immediately based on a person’s answers aren’t great, but what does have value is reads that factor in the personality of the player. You got pissy about your style being NAI, but when you share your personality with those tests, you let people now how you work on a basic level so they know what parts of your behavior is NAI playstyle stuff. After doing that, one can read someone factoring that in, toning down scumvibes that come from style but also finding where the person is acting outside of what makes sense based on their personality. I think you’re right about personality is not a reason for a scumread, but you’re using that to blow the whole deal out of proportion and dodge the entire matter, which seems like scum using a strawman logic to break down a valid idea.
VOTE: NPOM

UNVOTE:
If we’re gonna do this let’s do it right.

By the way I think for Day 1 I want to try to townblock and have a group of voices I trust to bounce ideas off of

I'm not getting anything out of the personality testing. I think we should go back to this.

I consider this a clear stance of siding with NoPowerOverMe and I'm not sure how to word this but "weakening" Frogsterking and his unique approach to mafia. I'm not sure what to make of this at the moment and I'll have to continue thinking about it.

I’m not entirely a fan of this. I think Galron’s post was rather constructive, since rather than just downtalk frog’s idea, he also uplifted my own, so I think Galron has good motives rn. Also Galron seems to be limbaity from my last game with him, so I’d be wary of those pushing him.
VOTE: Amelie

I think Amelie’s recent effort seems decent.
VOTE: bugspray
Let’s whack some weeds, shall we?

VOTE: lunar martian
Might as well

UNVOTE:
While the current gamestate is okay I do want to talk some more, so I’ll do this to avert a hammer.

VOTE: bugspray

@Gamma

I think it's important that you join the ORAM wagon because it will be a great chance to test the validity of the town block.

@Gamma

I suspect it may be a scenario where the scummiest players were a combination of scum and prs and ORAM is so much more likely to be scum than a pr because AGamblingPig wouldn't have flaked if he rolled pr. On top of that both bugs and Lunar hinted very strongly they were pr, and AGamblingPig and even ORAM did not. If that wasn't enough, AGamblingPig was voting LunarMartian the whole time until ORAM came back and unvoted.

yeah, I had AGP in a gae I recently modded and while he was lurky he did not flake out despite being VT. So if that's what he was like as VT I think this play makes more sense as scum vs. town PR
VOTE: ORAM
town block validity is also good to test imo

Despite everything else, I still feel pretty confident for other reasons that Trendall is Mafia, and Gamma's post there as well as a few others recently suggest that we are on the right track and Mafia is trying to organize to shift momentum.

In actuality I wasn’t looking too favorably on Trendall up until that post, but it caused a spark to change my mind and I’m thinking maybe Frogster is up to something.
VOTE: Frogsterking
I’m not too sure about this but it can’t hurt to kick up some dirt, eh?

That post doesn’t read as nice, it reads as condescending. “Strange internet people”? That sort of rhetoric serves no purpose than to aggress others. Why are the people strange to you??? And saying “his reads aren’t that great” is not a good look when he also suspects you.
VOTE: Lunar Martian
Nah fuck this. When I break it down that post is loaded with blatant discrediting.

I think I probably overreacted
UNVOTE:
I want to sort out what I’m actually thinking vs. what I’m feeling, if that makes sense

VOTE: bugspray
okay then

VOTE: Bugspray
I almost completely agree with the case and my one concern doesn’t really weaken it at all

UNVOTE:
I wanna see that analysis

I moreso meant his comparison of ours and why it caused us to conflict
but I think your post I quoted might explain it just as well, and I'm willing to go with that

VOTE: bugspray
I don't recall anyone else having a reason to wait to end the day

VOTE: Lunar
he's flailing at this point, he is trying to find the best miselim and switching his vote as he changes his mind.

VOTE: ower

Same for Gamma. All votes excluding the initial RVS vote.

[Lunar Martian]

Votecount 1.Eliminate

ORAM(7)

~ Frogsterking(121), Grendel(87), bugspray(65), Luca Blight(102), Momrangal(53), Gamma Emerald(128), NoPowerOverMe(135)

-- HAMMER

Lunar Martian(2)

~ Galron(35), Amélie(79)

bugspray(2)

~ OutWorldER(23), Lunar Martian(66)

OutWorldER(1)

~ Trendall(38)


Not Voting (0):


With 13 alive it takes 7 to eliminate.
Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2021-01-01 11:27:58)

MOD REMINDERS

Sorry for late flip.

For this flip i roll for a random frame.

1d19035 = 8776

FLAVOR

frame 8776 out of 19035

ORAM has been eliminated! He was a:

Spoiler:

Vanilla Town

Votecount 2.3

bugspray(3)

~ OutWorldER(8), Luca Blight(49), Frogsterking(25)

Lunar Martian(2)

~ NoPowerOverMe(10), Trendall(14)

Trendall(1)

~ Lunar Martian(21)

Momrangal(1)

~ Grendel(13)


Not Voting (4): Momrangal(0), bugspray(7), Gamma Emerald(12), Galron(3)

With 11 alive it takes 6 to eliminate.

Day 2 deadline is in (expired on 2021-01-13 20:42:20)

MOD REMINDERS

~ prodding Momrangal

FLAVOR

frame 17 out of 19035

Votecount 2.4

Trendall(3)

~ Lunar Martian(43), NoPowerOverMe(14), Frogsterking(53)

Lunar Martian(2)

~ Trendall(29), Gamma Emerald(20)

bugspray(2)

~ OutWorldER(9), Luca Blight(52)

Momrangal(1)

~ Grendel(17)


Not Voting (3): Momrangal(7), bugspray(7), Galron(6)

With 11 alive it takes 6 to eliminate.

Day 2 deadline is in (expired on 2021-01-13 20:42:20)

MOD REMINDERS

~ prodding bugspray

FLAVOR

frame 18 out of 19035

Votecount 2.6

bugspray(5)

~ OutWorldER(9), Luca Blight(55), Frogsterking(64), Gamma Emerald(27), Trendall(46)

Trendall(2)

~ Lunar Martian(45), NoPowerOverMe(16)

Momrangal(1)

~ Grendel(17)

Gamma Emerald(1)

~ Momrangal(10)


Not Voting (2): bugspray(13), Galron(8)

With 11 alive it takes 6 to eliminate.

Day 2 deadline is in (expired on 2021-01-13 20:42:20)

FLAVOR

frame 20 out of 19035

Votecount 2.7

Momrangal(5)

~ Grendel(33), joqiza(30), Frogsterking(89), OutWorldER(12), Lunar Martian(54)

bugspray(2)

~ Luca Blight(61), Gamma Emerald(32)

Gamma Emerald(1)

~ Momrangal(14)

Frogsterking(1)

~ Trendall(55)


Not Voting (2): bugspray(16), Galron(13)

With 11 alive it takes 6 to eliminate.

Day 2 deadline is in (expired on 2021-01-13 20:42:20)

FLAVOR

frame 21 out of 19035

Votecount 2.Eliminate

Momrangal(6)

~ Grendel(33), joqiza(30), Frogsterking(89), OutWorldER(12), Lunar Martian(54), Luca Blight(63)

-- HAMMER

Gamma Emerald(1)

~ Momrangal(15)

Frogsterking(1)

~ Trendall(55)

bugspray(1)

~ Gamma Emerald(32)


Not Voting (3): bugspray(16), Galron(13), Momrangal(0)

With 11 alive it takes 6 to eliminate.

Day 2 deadline is in (expired on 2021-01-13 20:42:20)

MOD REMINDERS

~ i didn't forget that with 11 alive, it takes 6 for majority and i definitely didn't not realize that was a hammer and left the thread open like a dumbass
~ as i only have access to the first ~50 frames, i cannot roll a 1d19035 for a random frame. apologies for the inconvenience.

FLAVOR

frame 22 out of 19035

Votecount 3.5

bugspray(4)

~ OutWorldER(3), Luca Blight(27), Frogsterking(64), Gamma Emerald(34)

Luca Blight(3)

~ ejjinami(78), bugspray(18), Galron(4)


Not Voting (2): Lunar Martian(39), joqiza(31)

With 9 alive it takes 5 to eliminate.

Day 3 deadline is in (expired on 2021-01-22 18:03:48)

FLAVOR

frame 26 out of 19035

Votecount 3.7

bugspray(4)

~ OutWorldER(6), Luca Blight(48), Frogsterking(66), Lunar Martian(49)

Luca Blight(3)

~ ejjinami(93), Galron(8), bugspray(38)


Not Voting (2): Gamma Emerald(41), joqiza(41)

With 9 alive it takes 5 to eliminate.

Day 3 deadline is in (expired on 2021-01-22 18:03:48)

MOD REMINDERS

Frogsterking has been prodded

FLAVOR

frame 28 out of 19035

Votecount 3.Elimination

bugspray(5)

~ OutWorldER(6), Luca Blight(48), Frogsterking(66), Lunar Martian(49), Gamma Emerald(43)

-- HAMMER

Luca Blight(3)

~ ejjinami(95), Galron(8), bugspray(38)


Not Voting (1): joqiza(41)

With 9 alive it takes 5 to Eliminate.

Day 3 deadline is in (expired on 2021-01-22 18:03:48)

MOD REMINDERS

1d19036 = 1665

FLAVOR

Bugspray has been eliminated! They were a:

Spoiler:

mafia backup neighbour

Some VCs relevant to Gamma. I'm thinking the Gamma is Mafia. In a bit I'll look through VCs relevant to Luca, and then do analysis of both of them.

[Lunar Martian]

Votecount 1.8

bugspray(3)

~ Trendall(14), Gamma Emerald(49), NoPowerOverMe(52)

Trendall(2)

~ Grendel(31), OutWorldER(10)

NoPowerOverMe(2)

~ Lunar Martian(5), Momrangal(24)

Lunar Martian(2)

~ AGamblingPig(3), Frogsterking(28)

Amélie(2)

~ Luca Blight(21), bugspray(22)

Gamma Emerald(1)

~ Amélie(32)

Frogsterking(1)

~ Galron(18)


Not Voting (0):

With 13 alive it takes 7 to eliminate.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2021-01-01 11:27:58)

MOD REMINDERS

• prodding Trendall

FLAVOR

frame 7 out of 19035

Votecount 1.9

bugspray(4)

~ Trendall(24), Gamma Emerald(55), NoPowerOverMe(59), Luca Blight(30)

Trendall(3)

~ Grendel(36), OutWorldER(10), Momrangal(27)

NoPowerOverMe(2)

~ Lunar Martian(6), Amélie(40)

Lunar Martian(2)

~ AGamblingPig(3), Frogsterking(29)

Frogsterking(1)

~ Galron(20)

Amélie(1)

~ bugspray(26)


Not Voting (0):

With 13 alive it takes 7 to eliminate.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2021-01-01 11:27:58)

MOD REMINDERS

•Prodding AGamblingPig and OutWorldER

FLAVOR

frame 8 out of 19035

Votecount 1.Eliminate

ORAM(7)

~ Frogsterking(121), Grendel(87), bugspray(65), Luca Blight(102), Momrangal(53), Gamma Emerald(128), NoPowerOverMe(135)

-- HAMMER

Lunar Martian(2)

~ Galron(35), Amélie(79)

bugspray(2)

~ OutWorldER(23), Lunar Martian(66)

OutWorldER(1)

~ Trendall(38)


Not Voting (0):


With 13 alive it takes 7 to eliminate.
Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2021-01-01 11:27:58)

MOD REMINDERS

Sorry for late flip.

For this flip i roll for a random frame.

1d19035 = 8776

FLAVOR

frame 8776 out of 19035

ORAM has been eliminated! He was a:

Spoiler:

Vanilla Town

Votecount 2.3

bugspray(3)

~ OutWorldER(8), Luca Blight(49), Frogsterking(25)

Lunar Martian(2)

~ NoPowerOverMe(10), Trendall(14)

Trendall(1)

~ Lunar Martian(21)

Momrangal(1)

~ Grendel(13)


Not Voting (4): Momrangal(0), bugspray(7), Gamma Emerald(12), Galron(3)

With 11 alive it takes 6 to eliminate.

Day 2 deadline is in (expired on 2021-01-13 20:42:20)

MOD REMINDERS

~ prodding Momrangal

FLAVOR

frame 17 out of 19035

Votecount 2.7

Momrangal(5)

~ Grendel(33), joqiza(30), Frogsterking(89), OutWorldER(12), Lunar Martian(54)

bugspray(2)

~ Luca Blight(61), Gamma Emerald(32)

Gamma Emerald(1)

~ Momrangal(14)

Frogsterking(1)

~ Trendall(55)


Not Voting (2): bugspray(16), Galron(13)

With 11 alive it takes 6 to eliminate.

Day 2 deadline is in (expired on 2021-01-13 20:42:20)

FLAVOR

frame 21 out of 19035

Votecount 2.Eliminate

Momrangal(6)

~ Grendel(33), joqiza(30), Frogsterking(89), OutWorldER(12), Lunar Martian(54), Luca Blight(63)

-- HAMMER

Gamma Emerald(1)

~ Momrangal(15)

Frogsterking(1)

~ Trendall(55)

bugspray(1)

~ Gamma Emerald(32)


Not Voting (3): bugspray(16), Galron(13), Momrangal(0)

With 11 alive it takes 6 to eliminate.

Day 2 deadline is in (expired on 2021-01-13 20:42:20)

MOD REMINDERS

~ i didn't forget that with 11 alive, it takes 6 for majority and i definitely didn't not realize that was a hammer and left the thread open like a dumbass
~ as i only have access to the first ~50 frames, i cannot roll a 1d19035 for a random frame. apologies for the inconvenience.

FLAVOR

frame 22 out of 19035

Votecount 3.Elimination

bugspray(5)

~ OutWorldER(6), Luca Blight(48), Frogsterking(66), Lunar Martian(49), Gamma Emerald(43)

-- HAMMER

Luca Blight(3)

~ ejjinami(95), Galron(8), bugspray(38)


Not Voting (1): joqiza(41)

With 9 alive it takes 5 to Eliminate.

Day 3 deadline is in (expired on 2021-01-22 18:03:48)

MOD REMINDERS

1d19036 = 1665

FLAVOR

Bugspray has been eliminated! They were a:

Spoiler:

mafia backup neighbour

Ok yeah its Gamma. For it to be Luca, Luca would have had to hard bus most of the game, including deciding to bus Gamma immediately on Day 3 after bussing Mom on day 2.

[Lunar Martian]

I can provide a longer explanation if you want, but if you just look a the quoted posts I hope you'll see what I saw.

[Lunar Martian]

I honestly really hope you're scum because you are denser than a neutron star if you're town.

Walk me through how any of that implies Luca is Mafia.

[Lunar Martian]

I may not have put them in the thread, but I think the VCA is pretty damning. I'll elaborate tomorrow evening.

[Lunar Martian]

I honestly really hope you're scum because you are denser than a neutron star if you're town.

Walk me through how any of that implies Luca is Mafia.

I’m not stating that
I’m stating your play this game is a dumpster fire, and I’m inclined to eliminate you just because if you’re scum you don’t deserve to win with this level of play.

That's not only uncalled for, but it does nothing to solve or advance the game in any way.

[Lunar Martian]

Look at Gamma's positioning on and around wagons, particularly wagons that flip scum. Gamma is willing to vote Mafia early on but then unvotes to "rethink". Gamma generally was pushing counterwagons to scum wagons.

[Lunar Martian]

I owe you all some work. I'll get on it shortly, although bear in mind that this is post happy-hour work, so quality may vary from the incredible product you normally get from me.

[Lunar Martian]

I'm really not feeling motivated to do the legwork in this game atm, especially given that everyone else seems to be completely afk.

[Lunar Martian]

Someone come play with me please.

[Lunar Martian]

I can go Ejji today I guess. I just don't see why Ejji defends me the way he did on the sub in. I think Luca is near enough to being clear that I feel safe and we can always do Gamma tomorrow if the game doesn't end. Gonna wait a bit to hammer so people can say their peace.

[Lunar Martian]

I also only voted because of the lie. Out was a Townread and I'd never vote there otherwise.

[Lunar Martian]

I agree with most of Joq's comments on the other page. I think ejj is the best elim today, and hopefully this ends the game.

VOTE: ejj

Really dislike this vote since I had already stated intent but given 24 hours.

[Lunar Martian]

I was so ready to vote Gamma and then Luca hammered like that. OK you two should go ahead and cross-vote and make your cases. Or I guess you can try to case me. That would be fun.

[Lunar Martian]

This is me not hammering. Reading up now.

[Lunar Martian]

I want to vote Luca for the Hammer and I want to vote Gamma for wanting to kill Luca suddenly.

Persuade me.

[Lunar Martian]

Think I'm voting luca.

[Lunar Martian]

Why?

Either because I think you're Mafia or because I'm trying to gamethrow.

[Lunar Martian]

Can you at least engage me on why you think I’m Mafia.

The hammer was really bad. Like why hammer without stating intent? A few of your votes have had questionable timing. The day 1 slowplay of the hammer, etc. Gamma's voting history is way worse and more incriminating. But I'm going to struggle to get past that hammer.

[Lunar Martian]

You shut down discussion. I was waiting for Ejji to post. The fact that you didn't notice my intent means you weren't reading carefully, too, which is scum-indicative since scum don't have to read as carefully.

[Lunar Martian]

Lunar, you should know that’s BS given you’ve read less carefully than anyone this game, to the point you didn’t even know Joq was conftown.

Scum are way more careful than Town around votes and hammers.

First of all, I do read I just don't pay much attention to claims generally. Second, look at other supposed conftowns this game.

[Lunar Martian]

Intent to hammer Gamma.

[Lunar Martian]

Prod dodge - waiting for the above to happen.

[Lunar Martian]

I feel like that probably comes from Mafia. Not the apathy, but the lack of caring about getting hammered.

[Lunar Martian]

VOTE: Gamma

I'm sorry if I'm wrong.

[Lunar Martian]

Thanks
But honestly Lunar is surprisingly good as town

Thanks

[Lunar Martian]

GG to everyone!

[Lunar Martian]

Sorry about the shenanigans with stating intent on you today Luca. I was concerned that neither of you was really Towntelling, so while I thought it had to be Gamma I wanted to put pressure on you and see if you obvTowned. You pretty much did. I gave Gamma the same chance, and he didn't. I think both sides played pretty well, but I think if not for a few gambits run by Town, it could have been an even cleaner win for Town.

[Lunar Martian]

This game feels like it's simpler than it seems and Mafia are mostly coasting by in low-activity slots. Every time we pressure someone they turn out to be Town, or get protected by a claim. That suggests that the scum are in slots we aren't pressuring, or are protected by claims.

I think these people are Town: Luca (a grudging Townread, I think he's overconfident and should chill out a bit), Frogster (same as Luca), NoPower (or am I confused?), OutWorldER, Grendel. Galron I go back and forth on.

That leaves these people: bugs, Mom, Gamma (and Gamma is probably town), and Trendall.

Without a major revelation I don't think I want to eliminate outside of those four today.

My hero solve looks something like: NoPower, bugs, Trendall. Throw in Mom for an extra, and put Gamma in the Town boat.
I think I'd prefer to kill bugs or NoPower today, and I don't know how many other people are willing to go bugs, so VOTE: NoPower

What I'm learning is that maybe I should trust my process more and my gut less, because the process yielded all three Mafia in a pool of 4 on day 2, while the gut gave me one.

[Lunar Martian]

TBH I was too lazy to read your entire ISOs to look at associations, so I just looked at vote counts, and vote counts don't lie.