Mini Normal 2191 | Endgame

[clidd]

Hello guys, it's a hemorrhagic pleasure to replace in.

Some voices told me to come and, well, here I am.

Let's win this.

[clidd]

Let me take a look first to see if I can find something suggestive.

UNVOTE: Ben

Ben isn't a good vote rn.

[clidd]

Ok, quite simple: I'm leaning town on Umlaut, Maduisha and Ben.

Dk, Lenora and Nepent are null.

Fuzzy and Zulfy are scumleans.

VOTE: Zulfy

[clidd]

I remember playing against scum!Maduisha once or twice, but after looking at her takes here, I noticed that the superficial instance of neutrality that she addressed during the game that I lost to scum!she is not expressively present here. I feel a organic frequency of opinions coming from her, which is probably coming more from town!Maduisha than not. Evidently, I'm not sure if there was an evolution in her scumgame, but I believe that I will be able to reconsider if I notice that my impression is incorrect (eventually).

[clidd]

My experience with Umlaut is more from player to mod than player to player. Particularly, I don't know how his meta works, but the point that I found towny from him was his approach to the behavior that Lenora had, as it reflected me as genuinely skeptical. It's hard imo to see scum!Umlaut using a very specific material to push someone (112) as scum, instead of rescuing a piece in memory unconsciously stimulated by the need for scumhunting as town.

Obviously, "genuine" does not always come from town, as scum could also argue about a real event that occurred, but in the context of Umlaut/Lenora, I see it as more town indicative than scum indicative.

[clidd]

And Ben, well, is being Ben.

I played with town!He and tone is basically the same. I don't necessarily agree with a hundred percent of what he's thinking, but I can understand each post he made and the process he probably used, which reflects me as coming from a town mentality.

pedit: I am simplifying my thoughts here, lol.

[clidd]

Regarding nulls, Dk is due to the fact that they aren't a readable slot by tone or presence in the early game (and I am not able to get a towny/scummy impression because I know that scum!Dk and town!Dk have a wide range).

Lenora and Nepent are unusual slots that I need to interact/see more to know which direction they are going.

[clidd]

Zulfy, can I see a summary of what you are thinking about the players spontaneously, without thinking too much?

It's important.

pedit: Both of you seem scummy to me.

[clidd]

My scumlean on Fuzzy is bc he seems to be trying to project a town mentality and imagine how it would affect his opinions (108, 138)

And you are more because I don't know if you are trying a strange form of scumhunting or if you are simulating a town approach!Zulfy.

pedit: Your takes are "ok", but meh, I was expecting a different reaction from you.

[clidd]

Spoiler:

VOTE: TheFuzzylogic99

Writing down the scum team and putting it in an envelope

Chumbo's in the envelope

Alright, I don't know if this is some start of the day joke, but if you actually have some gut feeling about Chumbo, please do share the reason. I don't like the current pushes out there, so I'd be willing to listen if you think you can sell me a Chumbo wagon.

I did think his drunk-posting was alright, but let's see.

Just seemed like classic lurkscum. Also the drunk-posting, which wouldn't be a factor at the time I Made that post cuz he: wrote it after I posted, was just rapid-fire nothingness replies if you ask me. Never been a fan of those, it's the easiest effort to ape.

Chumbo's in the envelope

If you think Chumbo's scum why are you voting Fuzzy? Do you think Fuzzy's scum too?

hmmmm I don't wanna answer this

There's nothing to derp clear cuz there's no derps there

whats a scum pt??

a thread for scum to post in together

i saw it as a bit OTT/performative - i'd maybe feel differently if they re-evaluated from it or if I saw the test on nepenthe as useful, but i'm getting the sense that koba is struggling to explain their reads/reasons

VOTE: dkkoba

Well I'm fairly certain that Koba is usually this aggressive and I don't think this relates to "struggling to explain their reads/reasons" in the slightest, it's just how Koba plays the game.

it's not the aggression itself that i find scummy though, it's the explanations.. like townreading Chumbo because he doesn't look like he has information

im a smart player and can see a player who is bumbling around without info on any other slot from a mile away.

do you think chumbo is scum?

oooh so aggressive. I don't think it's possible to see someone bumble from a mile away when they've only made 3 posts. Why are you asking her her read on Chumbo when the read on Chumbo is irrelevant to the vote on you?

Alright, I don't know if this is some start of the day joke, but if you actually have some gut feeling about Chumbo, please do share the reason. I don't like the current pushes out there, so I'd be willing to listen if you think you can sell me a Chumbo wagon.

I did think his drunk-posting was alright, but let's see.

Just seemed like classic lurkscum. Also the drunk-posting, which wouldn't be a factor at the time I Made that post cuz he: wrote it after I posted, was just rapid-fire nothingness replies if you ask me. Never been a fan of those, it's the easiest effort to ape.

I see. Well, the drunkposting remark from me was because it contributes to my thoughts on him before you could answer my post. I agree he lacked a bit of content before those posts, but being honest, the game is pretty empty so far (and at that point too), and it's hard to make content from nothing. What's your current opinion on Chumbo now that you read his other posts? Do you think it was an effort to stand out or genuine thought process?

Maduisha- As I stated it was just first thoughts. Scum like easy targets and since newbie are still adjusting to the new playstyle of a new site ( all mafia sites plays differently) it makes them easy targets. Scum also sometimes like to fish. That is to test the water to see if other players will join in the elimination.A lot of time they do it before voting. On the other hand, I could just be paranoid which for me is very possible.

Hm... why did you only bring that up for Nep, then? Lenora was pretty vocal at being a newbie too.

Sorry having a rough time posting.
What's the dichotomy between standing out and genuine thought process for? I see that sort of thing specifically as an effort to blend in

I think zulfy is noobscum tho the way theyre approaching chumbo tho lol

Where's your chumbo read at

Chumbo re: calling u lurkscum when I hadn't posted yet: I can do that especially when I have no choice whatsoever but to make a First Post in the thread

And something that I also don't understand is that you start with a vote on Fuzzy and then start talking/slow pushing another slot that you are suspecting (?). Not to mention that your comment about my predecessor didn't have much AI substance and it looked more like you were making things up to see if something would fit. Since there was no support, that would explain why you didn't change your vote.

[clidd]

clidd ur using too big words and my brain hurts

Clidd always does that, you learn to ignore it. (My working theory is that people whose L1 is a Romance language will prefer English words that look "familiar" to them, which are usually fancy Latin-derived words rather than common Germanic ones.)

Anyway, I like what I'm seeing of clidd's reads. Except, for some reason, his townread on me? He's denying we have any meta to speak of even though we had a few... er, memorable games together, and I don't really understand how being able to cite a recent game as evidence for "broadcasting I'm-just-a-newb can be a scumtell" is in any way indicative of my alignment.

We do have some games together, yeah, sometimes my memory is bad.

My read on you is very subjective. As I said earlier, it is possible for you to recall such information in both alignments. What changes is that I'm interpreting as towny the way you did it.

[clidd]

If you're town, you shouldn't be paranoid of me, Ben.

You know what happened last game, right?

[clidd]

Zulfy and Fuzzy are good wagons rn.

Fuzzy prob has a higher % of being scum, but I want to sort the stuff that Zulfy is doing first. The slowpush on Chumbo while voting Fuzzy is a dissonance that I'm having trouble seeing as coming from town.

I remember having a similar ping in a past game with Dk (names on the list) on a player called Radja, where he demonstrated this dissonant behavior as scum, so I want to assess whether it is the same case here or not.

[clidd]

Idk, it seemed to me that you were pushing Chumbo for meh reasons that didn't work. You actually gave more reasons to vote for Chumbo than necessarily for Fuzzy.

I am not buying into the idea of ​​being a pressure distribution or a reaction provocation.

[clidd]

I think it's healthy to have a mindset that allows you to be flexible and reconsider in the face of new impressions. What I am saying is for you not to overthink too much, as you may end up in confbias without realizing it.

[clidd]

I mean, my scumgame is probably better than my towngame. Although my scum roll is almost nonexistent.

But as long as you keep an open mind, avoid confbias and are constantly evaluating me in good faith, I shouldn't be a problem.

[clidd]

Idk, it seemed to me that you were pushing Chumbo for meh reasons that didn't work. You actually gave more reasons to vote for Chumbo than necessarily for Fuzzy.

I am not buying into the idea of ​​being a pressure distribution or a reaction provocation.

You are free to not believe me but that's what it was.

I get it that you're saying that "it is what it is" but I'm trying to understand you here.

Do you have any completed scumgame to link?

I'm lazy to search by myself rn.

[clidd]

I mean, my scumgame is probably better than my towngame. Although my scum roll is almost nonexistent.

But as long as you keep an open mind, avoid confbias and are constantly evaluating me in good faith, I shouldn't be a problem.

Sounds good, clidd.

I think I'll go log off now and look at the reasons for why Zulfy is scum tmrw because I'm hella tired. Goodnight!

[clidd]

By the way, Umlaut, our game history together may have been somewhat overshadowed by that particular HEM/Shiki game. I still feel guilty about the way things went there. Maybe that's why I have a mental block to not immediately recall games from memory to read you.

[clidd]

Do you have any completed scumgame to link?

I'm sorry I don't. I don't even remember the last time I was scum.

So apparently I'll have to look for it.

This is something for tomorrow, anyways.

[clidd]

Oh, yeah, mini 2139 (Ircher as mod). It is coming to my mind now, lol. Zulfy was there too.

[clidd]

I'm not sure if I'm vibing with Nepenthe town.

But I agree with a pool of you, Maduisha, Ben and me.

[clidd]

It's fine, just buss your partner and you'll get towncred

[clidd]

Can u tell us why
and yea sure let me go ahead with that:

Eloisa: Town just the whole thinking seems to line up with reality, which is to say her logic is the same as my logic so we're good. If I town read anyone it's her.
Koba: The sort who wolfs as town or scum.
You: The same as always, i.e. verbose and such. I will be patient.
Madoisha: Seems okay for now. Appreciating the effort.
Ben dover: Have honestly completely skipped past em in my skimming.
Umlaut: Nothing out of the ordinary. Kinda just waiting to see what happens here. The more he posts the better the game will be I think.
I'm forgetting two people idk who tho

Micro 946 - Mafia Strongman:

viewtopic.php?t=83294&f=84&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

Gypyx: Newbie northern european? teen.
Non Compos Mentis (NCM): someone's alt
Logicaltist (Logic): try-hard intro. Gonna vote u
*20: were you really thinking that really
Votato: Finally some color in the thread. Awkward intro nvm gonna vote u instead. Not the IC lol.
inutile: Fun username. I look forward to more investigative work from u
Allomancer: Fix up that attitude bud
Elbrin: Elbirn?
superbowl9: nothing to say. Maybe you last two also didn't get a thread link.

The format you made here was very similar to that of your last scumgame.

When I compare your earlygame here with your town games (Micro 882/Mini 2139), I couldn't find the same formatting used in post 180 to illustrate your reads. Which is why I expected a different reaction from you.

Micro 882: Public Cop 9P:
viewtopic.php?t=80492&f=84&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

Mini Normal 2139:
viewtopic.php?t=82964&f=2&st=0&sk=t&sd= ... er_sort=Go

Your tone in these two games seemed more organic and your comments more widely spaced. Even when someone asked you to say what you were thinking, your reaction was not necessarily to focus everything on a kind of pbp readlist, as you did specifically here and in the scumgame I mentioned.

In contrast, the content of 180 seemed to verbalize a more direct and less comical/more serious message compared to the content of the post you made as scum (which is a good/towny signal). But again, I'm on a speculative field, so I probably need to see more of your engagement with the game to determine the accuracy of my impression of you.

[clidd]

I'm not sure if I'm vibing with Nepenthe town

.

But I agree with a pool of you, Maduisha, Ben and me.

And to contextualize the excerpt in bold, Umlaut, the reason is that I don't think he's actually trying to solve the game.

All of his interactions are with just one player and are reactive rather than proactive, so I see it as null.

The self-explanations of the processes of how he approaches/sees the game are things that he could also detail as scum, as he is addressing the topic of how town!He plays and he doesn't need to be town here to talk about it.

Not that I think he's scum, of course, but I haven't felt anything towny coming from him at the moment.

[clidd]

Hey Lenora, if you are there, do you have any takes on others players besides Dk?

I am interested in seeing your understanding of the game so far.

Dk is a peculiar slot and although I agree with some of your observations regarding the approach they took, it is important to note that town!Dk and scum!Dk behave aggressively/strangely in the earlygame, so I don't think it is possible to get a concrete read in their slot yet. I remember having a hardscumread on them in our first game together and, again, another scumread on our last game together (both they were town), so I'm being more ''open'' this time.

Sources:

viewtopic.php?f=83&t=85406&hilit=dkkoba
viewtopic.php?f=50&t=82731&hilit=dkkoba

[clidd]

It's been a while, Miss Maduisha.

Our unique past experience together left me with some internal scars, but I'm happy to see you again. You seem to have changed since the last time I saw you, in a good way. I would appreciate seeing you in future games, as you are a pleasant company to have.

[clidd]

Regarding Zulfy, I agree that there is a lack of coherence in a Zulfy + Fuzzy partnership given the inconsequential way in which Zulfy voted Fuzzy. Perhaps Zulfy's role is more evident depending on whether Fuzzy is scum or not.

[clidd]

I kind of need to see what Fuzzy will post before deciding if I want to continue the wagon on Zulfy or support the elimination/pressure on Fuzzy.

Consider that I have a spiritual vote on Fuzzy.

[clidd]

Nepenthe is someone that I want to see too.

I've been constantly forgetting about this slot

pedit: Huum.

[clidd]

Ok, so these are the pictures in my mind rn:

TheFuzzylogic99

- Scummy projection;
- Lack of participation;

Zulfy

- Wavy progression;
- Bad tone;
- Ilogical compatibility of partnership with Fuzzy, if Fuzzy is scum;

Umlaut

- Towny questioning instance on the veracity of lenora's newbie position.
- Good faith.

ben dover123

- Good takes;
- Towny by tone;
- Transparent progression;

Maduisha

- Good tales;
- Towny by tone;
- Transparent progression;

DkKoba

- No idea;

lenora

- No idea;

nepenthe

- Not sure, but can be a potential partner of scum!Fuzzy by PoE compared to Dk/Lenora.
- Lack of scumhunting;

[clidd]

Correction: "Good takes" instead of "good tales" on Maduisha.

[clidd]

That's all, see you guys later.

[clidd]

I think your takes so far have been logically good, Maduisha, and your approach to the game seems to have changed. You are more perceptive of the events around you, which is a positive sign. There was an evolution in your mindset.

In relation to Lenora, your observation about the genuity of a possible town!Lenora seems persuasive, but I'm trying to limit myself before seeing the slot as town atm. The reason is that if she were a newbie and we were in a newbie game, I would probably see the behavior that you pointed out as difficult to be simulated by a newbie!Scum mindset, but considering this is a normal game, it is very easy for her to be an alt of a regular player engaging in a newbie narrative to stay off the radar (as scum), or has some other particular goal to act in such way (like testing a different playstyle, as town), but in both scenarios I don’t mean to underestimate the slot, especially since I don’t know who she is. I need to see more of her interactions with the game to be more confident about my accuracy of read on her, whether town or scum.

[clidd]

I might have to replace out.... Still trying to balance between school, life and this game

more later today

Idk if you would have reasons to feel discouraged as town here.

You just need to express your opinion about who is towny/scummy to you, even if it is based on tone alone. I don't think there is pressure on you to play.

Generally speaking, I would say that the feeling I had is that you don't like to play as scum and feel pressured to participate in the game in a more expressive way, because in the current gamestate town is slowly finding each other and this makes it very difficult for the scum side to play if they fail to enter the townblock or drive a miselim. The more time that passes, the worse the scenario gets for scum and town gets closer to a PoE solve. Which would explain the lack of motivation to return to the game, since you are already far behind and is being suspected by more than one player.

Obviously, this is speculative and I believe that you are telling the truth about your possible time/energy problem, but that does not indicate your alignment. You can be speaking the truth in both alignments. I still need to take a look at your history as a player to better contextualize about how you play and whether this type of situation has occurred in the past.

[clidd]

Fuzzy, please don't threaten to replace out. Do it or don't, but don't say anything about it in thread, per site rules.

As I recall Fuzzy was serious limbait in the other game we sort-of played together, Mini 2014, somehow managing to get himself eliminated on Day 1 after claiming cop in an open setup without a counterclaim. (I say "sort of" because I replaced in on Day 2, so I read the earlier posts but I wasn't really there for them and we never interacted.) Might need to go look at their posting in that game again and see if whatever got them scumread is similar to this game.

It's a good example, but the game is from 2018 and Fuzzy's style may have changed a lot since then.

I'll take a look to see if I find anything suggestive in 2020-2021.

[clidd]

Thanks Fuzzy, I look forward to see more impressions from you.

It wasn't exactly what I was expecting, but you have successfully planted a seed of doubt in my mind.

[clidd]

i feel like this is so much talking to express a simple idea, which i usually think is scum indicative. town is generally way more to the point, as they don't have to try too hard to look like they're contributing whereas it's in maf's best interest to maximize everything so it looks like they have "content" and are proactive. i call bluff.

[clidd]

Ok, now it's up to Cabd and Zulfy to post their thoughts, especially Zulfy.

I'm feeling that Zulfy is currently reflecting me as more scummy than Fuzzy/Nep, so I don't intend to change my vote until I have some update on my read.

Btw, welcome to the game, Cabd. I hope you enjoy your stay.

[clidd]

@Clidd
I am taking 12 credits this semester so school is keeping me busy. Friday Satuarday and Sundays are my free days so those days will likely have better post as I will have more time to post, Those A's dont magically appears out of nowhere.

It's fine, as long as you keep sharing what you're thinking, without filters.

[clidd]

Hm, I see, I hadn't considered the possibility of alt accounts. Well, I understand that you want to continue the evaluation of the slot and especially not townread based on newbie behavior, but a part of what I pointed out before has to do with the way she approached DK's slot rather than the newbie posting, so I would like to know if you found it towny too or if I'm alone in this.

On the surface, it seemed like a towny stance, because Dk is a naturally noisy player and difficult to eliminate if they are town, although I don't know exactly whether Lenora is aware of that fact, so maybe scum!Lenora would be less inclined to try to formalize reasons to push Dk based on the initial aggressiveness demonstrated, which would point to town!Lenora not understanding how their playstyle works and interpreting their line of actions as scummy (and interested in elucidating the read). On the other hand, I can't get an idea of ​​what Lenora's scum range is and depending on her competence as scum, such type of questioning could be very easy to emulate. I say this because I have already played against scum who can build genuine push (Flavorleaf), and I, in particular, would also be able to formulate something like that without much difficulty as scum.

So, answering your question, no, I didn't find it towny to the point of having a TR or TL in the slot. Maybe it would change if I had some context on how town!Lenora and scum!Lenora behave, but without that I don't feel comfortable presuming anything about her yet.

[clidd]

I'm not exactly sure what to think of these Ben posts read together. At first I thought he was coinciding with me in that Zulfy is kinda fishy but not necessarily scum, but now the accusation about him setting up others as targets is worrying me, because the player Zulfy is supposedly "setting up" is the current leading wagon, and I'm wondering if Ben is just re-evaluating the slot because the game state doesn't make much sense to him, or because he's actually slowly trying to pivot off from Fuzzy for other reasons.

As far as I remember, town!Ben played very ping-pong (changing his mind in short periods of time) in our last game, so I don't know if his reevaluation here is necessarily scummy. The reason he assigned is meh, not good, but Ben is Ben, so he probably has an explanation for it in his head. At least that's what I expect from him.

[clidd]

Good afternoon, sorry for the absence.

I had

*cough*

important

*cough*

matters to resolve.

[clidd]

Well, it's more like I feel that Zulfy is taking his pressure on Fuzzy too far if he is supposed to be applying equal pressure to his SR's. Like, if Fuzzy flips town then it feels like Zulfy could just plop onto the clidd/Chumbo slot later.
Although it seems I missed some context as Zulfy changed his read on clidd's slot after he replaced in, so I think I'm missing something here.

The impression I got was that scum!Fulzy was trying to set a kind of chain between Chumbo/Fuzzy that would give him the flexibility to push in a scenario where the Fuzzy flip was town. But with the recent changes resulting from my entry, he would find himself having to change his approach, as it would be clear to him that there would be no push support on me. The problem is that there isn't a 0% chance of him being town and me confbiasing in my initial impression + meta to unconsciously conclude that he is scum and interpreting how his actions would be explained from that point on, so I really do need him more engaged with the game to check if I can see any indication that I am wrong (or confirm that I'm right).

Effort isn't really a good tell since if scum tries hard they can pour effort into basically everything. What I'm looking for is how original Fuzzy's ideas are. I think that's much more important then putting in a lot of effort into his reads.

I agree, but there are some contextual differences from player to player. There are people who don't like to play scum and naturally have a limited scum range, failing to replicate the effort in an organic way compared to their towngame. On the other hand, there are players who are able to replicate the effort independent of alignment and are able to break tells and expectations in scumgames, but few in my opinion are able to do that. In the context of Fuzzy, I don't think he has a broad scumgame from what I observed in my research, so as the game progresses and he continues to constantly share his thoughts, it is very likely that he will become obvscum or obvtown, as I noticed that he finds it difficult to maintain an authenticity/consistency of thought in the medium and long term (as scum).

[clidd]

i'd appreciate it if you regard me based on my play in this game rather than based on how town!Lenora or scum!Lenora would act. i think the things i pointed out were objectively scummy and not countered properly - i made it very clear the aggressiveness wasn't the reason for my push

i'm still agreeing with mad and nep the most /shrug. i liked nep's take on clidd being over-explainy

if dkkoba's behavior was a playstyle thing, then i'm sure i'll see with the new person and change my mind if they're towny

The stuff you said about Dk, in their context as a player, is NAI and I didn't see any very substantial opinions of yours about other slots that I could look at and say "oh, this is 100% towny beyond surface and I have a hard time seeing scum manufacturing", so regardless of whether I don't know your meta, by play I don't think you're anything but null to me at the moment. But yeah, sure, I will pay more attention to your play from now on.

[clidd]

1/10

As I catch up I have a solid town core of {lenora, nepenthe, Maduisha, Clidd} (not necessarily in that order) and a fairly significant scumread on Umlaut.

VOTE: Umlaut

Here's what gut-pinged me in the Umlaut ISO.... it's giving me feelings of "annoyed that the pool is shrinking" from him. (BORKTELL!!!!) Feels like there's pushback on anything that could at all softclear a player on day one. For example, a player having great posts then not posting for a bit doesn't change the contents of those initial posts?

Spoiler: ISO with Highlights

I don't really get the scumread(s) on nepenthe's intro, "look at me openly refusing to follow site meta" is not a very natural scum opening play.

I wonder why this game is a 9p...
It's very interesting.

I can't tell if you're serious or not, what's interesting about a game being 9p?

VOTE: Zulfy
Every post he's made is pure scum

i think ur vibes are town so far chumbo :3

what is "town vibes" to you? i'm not sure how you came to this conclusion so quickly

(also i just read over the rules and saw only 1 bah post is allowed so i'm sorry for my 2 opening posts without content, i just tried to send something that didn't go through so i wasn't sure if it was working)

This is straining my credulity a bit.

lenora, where/how did you form your impression of what "bah post" means?

To answer your question, a 'bah' post is a single post someone may be permitted just after they die, just to say "bah, go town" or something. "Free of game related content" means it can't be used to try and make a case or reiterate accusations or otherwise try to influence the outcome of the game.

I get the impression you've made several

I'm just a newb and I don't understand things

remarks back to back and I'm concerned that you're deliberately playing up that angle.

I saw town get burned by that in a game not too long ago.

Chumbo's in the envelope

If you think Chumbo's scum why are you voting Fuzzy? Do you think Fuzzy's scum too?

@mod Your rules post says Day 1 is 10 IRL days but your deadline timer in your last VC seems to be based on 7 IRL days

I didn't realize it had been so long since nepenthe was posting, I was still going by my early impression of them

. Okay, so make that a

very weak

town lean.

I need to see the process by which you arrived at Lenora and Nep as solid town, but you will probably explain eventually. Regarding the case in which you attributed a scum!Umlaut mentality to the sequence of posts between 29-246, I find it interesting the intention to bring this kind of vision (as I don't see a specific benefit for scum!you to raise suspicions about Umlaut rn using such pretext, considering that scum!you could bring a better base of meta to give more credibility to the case or use more empathetic reasons), but I still don't agree with the inference that you had. I would have to do some mental gymnastics and start from the conclusion "Umlaut is scum" to interpret his posts in this way.

[clidd]

2/10

Clidd, I don't think we have played together before? Your post 220 is literally something I could have done and posted myself in a vacuum. It's rare to find people who use meta this way, other than myself and sometimes fferyllt.

It feels so incredibly self-indulging but I kind of want you to apply your technique to me just to see what it feels like from the other side! But only if you actually feel the need to. Don't waste your time if you've gotten a read on me in other forms.

No, unfortunately we haven't played together yet, but it's refreshing for me to know that I'm not the only one who uses meta in this way. Nice to meet you, btw o/

And I'm afraid I can't apply my method to you, considering that tells evaluation between games is something that you most likely know how it works (and should know how to counter as scum). I can, however, draw parallels of behavior by mirroring and contextualize the way you approach the game in both alignments but, again, you are aware of this process and probably know how to manipulate your meta, so I am waiting to see what you'll show here per play.

Spoiler: Tangent

I recently finished a perfect win scum game (Tenet, large theme subforum, 600+ page behemoth) where we got literally no scum deaths in four double days in a large theme precisely because town was too forthcoming with their reads and softing roles, such that my team could predict everything going down a day or two in advance with about a 90% success rate. I'm going to be trying to play reads a little closer to the chest to avoid the exact same scenario getting Uno-Reverse'd on me. This is also the reason behind intentionally limiting myself to fewer posts per day, I had like a 9 page ISO that game, and it severely hurt the ability of the town to coordinate. (Which, in fairness, I was scum so that was good for me) This game has an extremely ideal and healthy posting pace, and with dkkoba gone and me in the slot, the only hyper-poster is gone. I'd like to keep this thread manageable and enjoyable for all.

Hum, I believe that the context of the game you mentioned was quite different in size, playerlist and setup, so I'm not sure if it would make much sense for you to approach the current game with this kind of mentality (because the context here is quite different, especially the pace of the gamestate) and, particularly, the instance of saving/not showing reads is also something I've seen scum using to simulate a towny approach (as scum!FL did in the past game with me), but I'll consider it NAI until I see if you'll get some spicy take using this approach or not.

[clidd]

Hmm, it's early still to try and call it like this but maybe it's just Cabd-Fuzzy? DkKoba had nothing to say about Fuzzy or his wagon despite it being the closest thing to a consensus scumread in the game, and Fuzzy's own read on DkKoba is... well.

Dakoba

- the first few post of Koba were blah. 150 is okay I guess. I would like to hear what exactly the approach Zufy took that gave Koba the scum read. I like the pressure she is putting on Madisha here 159. I read Koba other posts and honestly, there was nothing there. I dont what to make out of her drop in quality

Pretty fence-sitty and "I don't know what to think" and can easily fit a scum agenda of not wanting to solidify a read one way or the other on one's buddy.

I'm not sure if Fuzzy + Cabd work as a scum pair imo and I have some seeds of doubt in my head about Fuzzy being scum here, but I understand where you are coming from.

[clidd]

D1 ends in 11h...

There are multiple idle people + Zulfy has been gone for 3 days and a half...

This game has been pretty weird so far.

Yes, the pace is too slow.

My theory is that scum is not taking action (or is afk), but meh. It can be anything, tbh.

[clidd]

Unofficial VCA:

Zulfy

> Me (E-4)

Fuzzy

> Zulfy, Ben, Maduisha (E-2)

Cabd

> Umlaut (E-4)

Umlaut

> Cabd (E-4)

Not voting

> Nep, Fuzzy

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

[clidd]

I'm not sure if Fuzzy + Cabd work as a scum pair imo and I have some seeds of doubt in my head about Fuzzy being scum here, but I understand where you are coming from.

Yeah, I don't wanna get lost into scumpair theorycrafting considering there are 0 flips to work with and I've already got lost thinking about scum!Zulfy scumpair scenarios, but something about how nitpicky Cabd's post was in 304 combined with Fuzzy's response waving it away made me feel that they're unlikely together. Cabd was already comfortably pushing Umlaut even if nobody else voted with him, scum!Cabd has no reason to push scum!Fuzzy in a nitpicky way when the majority of players suspected him already for other reasons that are agreed on. And if it were to be orchestrated to make scum!Cabd look townier for "catching scum", I think that Fuzzy wouldn't have just "canceled" Cabd's argument by saying "that was not what I meant by being active."

I see no scenario in which this is SvS and benefits them in any way. I really shouldn't be speaking like this pre-flips, but that's what my gut is telling me.

Yes, it is exactly the same conclusion I am having, although I have additional reasons, in addition to the ones you mentioned, for not being able to view both as SvS.

I'm more inclined rn to press Zulfy, because he conveniently disappeared at the same time as we started to argue between us.

But if we need to consolidate in an elimination, and the deadline is too close, I can switch to Fuzzy so we don't lose the elimination.

[clidd]

The answer I expected, but consider it a challenge from a play style comrade, to see if you get to the right spot on me in the end. (Assuming you're in a slot that genuinely has to, obviously!) My custom title on this account is due to the way I used to play before I had a hiatus from the site- I had a digital binder fuill of play style tells for every active player on the site, and was watching literally every single ongoing game on the site at once, using free time and my extreme speed-read ability. Now I have a job, wife, and kid..... so that just can't happen as fast. My limit is playing two games at once, and following 3-5 non-me games at most.

From what I understand, your case is more extreme, because you literally set up a database and stored useful information about a lot of players. I believe that I am more limited in this aspect, because I research individually and according to the games in which I am participating. But it seems to be a good challenge, although the impression I'm getting from all this dialogue is difficult to fit in a scenario of scum!you explaining about these things to me. Another point is that your predecessor (Dkkoba) has a more proactive scumgame, where they literally take action in the early-game and, before being banned, I didn't feel them trying to do that here. It seemed more like an apathetic town!Dkkoba than anything else. So, because of that, I already have a certain bias about my read on you and it is likely that this will be transmitted to my meta analysis and influence the final result.

Indeed. It should be taken as NAI as I can cite several games of both alignments I have personally done so over my 7+ year tenure on this site, not even counting the years before that on my old home site.

That said, and this might be TMI so let's call it tangent part the third:

Spoiler: Tangent, Third of His Name

When it comes to mafia, I have around four "styles" I try to use.

Style one is me in larger theme games. I don't constrain myself whatsoever, and I attempt to "in the moment" play and read, as both alignments. It caused veyr inflated page counts, but allows me to form snap gutreads very effectively, at least given how it's gone in 2020.

Style two is in specific hydra account of mine. I essentially become a person that is a combination of my play style and fferyllt's, in that Morph the Cat doesn't really feel like two separate players in one slot, but instead a fusion of our styles posting as one brain.

Style three, the one I instinctively used here, is my old "IC" persona. Many moons ago, in the newbie Queue, in addition to the SE role there was an "IC" role whose job was to both play the game AND be a friendly open book when it comes to theory and thought processes, as to try and set a high standard example of how play works, while addressing theory questions directed to them. Obviously, that system is long retired, and so now only the "super friendly and reserved posting" parts remain. I'm pulling the "10 posts a day" thing from a player named Petapan after seeing it used to great effect during the tenet game to keep himself on track and focused. I also tend to end up in this style when playing anon-alt games.

Style four is "Chaos wizard" and that style only gets used in games where everything is crazy and I wish to keep it that way. An example of this would be the "Achievement Unlocked" game, or most micros with very experienced players and heavy nonstandard mechanics.

That's quite an insane number of styles, lol. Personally, I have been on the site for a year and I still feel that I am trying to develop as a player to improve the standard base of my play before testing new waters with alternative styles. And, well, I'm a little confused about the purpose of this, because I don't know if you are trying to guide me about your history and share experiences as someone who also sympathizes with the use of meta, or if there is any other goal that I am not seeing.

[clidd]

start from the conclusion "Umlaut is scum"

You're not that far off, regarding starting points. Umlaut is a gutping, and then I went back through the ISO to try and quantify what exactly was setting off the subtle alarm bells, in the hopes of feeling out other's reactions to the same points once highlighted and given daylight.

I don't have a particular rock-townread that i can use to bounce thoughts off of, so "at large to the ether" is the next best thing.

I see. I still have a problem considering that Umlaut is scum for these reasons, but I think I can understand what kind of gutping you probably had.

The impression I have on him is still in that game that he mentioned when engaging with Lenora, because it sounded towny imo, but besides that I would say that my gut, specifically on him, is pointing more towards town than scum. Evidently, this is a read that I am periodically reevaluating, so if I am wrong, it is likely that I will be able to see, or feel things that make me believe that I am wrong about it at some moment.

[clidd]

To be clear lenora and Maduisha are green to me

So you dislike both of {nepenthe, clidd} or which one?

Nepenthe is null and I got my eye on clidd. Just really have my eye on the guy. That's chumbo.

[clidd]

I'm vibing with a Zulfy elimination, but it's ok if you guys want Fuzzy.

If so, I hope I'm wrong in my assessment of Fuzzy (and he's scum), although my current analysis points to a town flip.

Regarding Zulfy, nothing he said on the previous page reflected me as towny, but I also don't deny the possibility of town!Zulfy just doesn't want to collaborate with me and doesn't worry about showing that he is town. Anyway, I don't read minds.

[clidd]

Official Vote Count

Zulfy

(2): Umlaut, DkKoba

TheFuzzylogic99

(1): Zulfy

ben dover123

(1): Chumbo

Chumbo

(1): Maduisha

DkKoba

(1): lenora

Not Voting

(3): TheFuzzylogic99, ben dover123, nepenthe

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2021-01-25 15:14:00)

clidd replaces Chumbo. Please welcome them!

So this is wrong? ^

[clidd]

Wait, where is my name?

Why I'm voting Ben?

[clidd]

Ok, we appreciate your effort.

[clidd]

Non-Official Vote Count

TheFuzzylogic99

(4): Zulfy, ben dover123, Maduisha, Umlaut

Zulfy

(1): clidd

Cabd

(1): lenora

Umlaut

(1): Cabd

Not Voting

(2): TheFuzzylogic99, nepenthe

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to eliminate

Deadline

: (expired on 2021-01-27 21:11:00)

[clidd]

Idk what to make of the way Fuzzy posts are happening. It doesn't seem organic to me, but at the same time, I'm feeling it's towny in his context as a player (not necessarily the content, but the intent behind it).

The sudden change from "I think I'm going to replace out bc I'm not going to have time to play" for what we are seeing now is very curious and I have difficulty seeing it coming from scum!Fuzzy.

But, as I said before, I can be wrong and we probably will flip him today, considering the massive support on the wagon, so it would be interesting to see more opinions on him (and preferably about the people inside/outside the wagon too) before a possible flip.

[clidd]

Nep/Lenora are probably the most null slots for me rn.

Cabd would have met that criterion if it weren't for the town pings that I felt when he approached the meta topic with me. I mean, he could describe those things regardless of alignment, but the tone of the interactions he had with me seemed to be from instructor to student, in a way that I think might be uncomfortable or awkward if he was scum and already knew my alignment. I still intend to see more of his play to feel which way he is going (considering that these are only subjective pings).

This impression is independent of the speculation I had of Dkkoba, btw ^

[clidd]

I'm feeling good about Maduisha and Ben as town.

Umlaut too, but with a lesser extent of certainty compared to the two above.

And nothing changed about Zulfy tbh.

[clidd]

@Fuzzy

Don't worry, the points that made me think that you are towny go far beyond from what I described above, so it's not like I'm basing myself on a ethical conduct reason.

Regarding my read on Ben, I would say that I don't see much difference from the town!Ben from our past game and I don't see a scum schedule in the way he is playing. Simply town, there is no mystery imo.

I don't like setup spec, but I would like to see Umlaut/Cabd's opinion on the claim. I believe that they have more experience with mechanical aspects.

[clidd]

need to reread very quickly but after rereading:

1. i'm solidifying my scumread on clidd after going back and forth over that slot. just not able to townread them right now.

2. can someone condense/quickly explain the wagon on fuzzy here?

pedit: Ok, I would appreciate it if you contextualized your SR in addition to "typing too much" if possible. You are null to me until you can explain in an AI way for me to check if you're coming from a town or scum pov.

[clidd]

I'm about to head to bed but I am not sure I buy it outright.

Please nothing silly tia.
More in the morning.

Alright, take your time.

[clidd]

okay yeah... fuzzy's play makes sense in the context of a pr. i guess i can see how they got scumread but it's kind of a reach. people i'd be comfortable voting today are still clidd, definitely cabd. i don't really see zulfy as being particularly towny either, but i'm open to being proven wrong. also - hopefully will be able to commit more time to this game at hours that make sense this week and opening myself up to any questions people might have in order to help themselves read me.

My only question to you is if you can expand your read on me in a way where you say literally everything you are thinking, without filters, regardless of whether or not you have an offensive opinion. It is important that I understand exactly how you are seeing me, because then I can tell if you are town or scum fosing me.

[clidd]

Fair enough..... I am not good at day one . I am very much a VCA guy so until the first flip I am pretty useless. I been trying some new stuff to improve my town game. This is my prob why my content is blah but context is okay/good.

I saw in your games that you are a walking bait when you are town and try to use the same argument in your favor when you are scum, but I feel that you played decently in the games where you were not eliminated on the first day. You just have to change your early game (which is your major weak point).

[clidd]

In water is wet news- Zufy is still useless (gamewise) . He has done nothing to add to the game and is def lurking IMHO. That is making post to seem active. Nep is seems to just be inactive.

I'm leaning scum on Zulfy, but I don't think the same instance necessarily applies to Nep.

My dream is to be able to move a wagon on Zulfy, but maybe that won't happen today.

[clidd]

That's all, I'll get some sleep now.

[clidd]

So you think that I am effectively maintaining a good appearance of my posts to give the impression that I am talking/doing a lot, when the concept of what I am verbalizing could be summarized in a more objective and fluid way in your opinion. Ok, I think I understand that part.

[clidd]

Regarding your impression of an agenda, it doesn't make a lot of sense with the way I'm playing. I am being very open to reconsiderations and I have been following Fuzzy/Cabd/Zulfy closely in this regard.

[clidd]

I'm trying to understand if my playstyle impression is unconsciously guiding you to interpret the rest of my posts as scummy (town!you) or if you're trying to discredit me to block an universal TR (scum!you). The more you explain your process (specifying posts and showing your thought process), the better I can read you.

[clidd]

I mean, you can think that I'm scum, but if you're town, I need to know that you're town to convince you that you're scumreading town, or scumcase you if I feel that your motives are being forged by a scum pov, if that makes sense.

[clidd]

Hum..

After thinking a little more, I'm not seeing scum!Fuzzy rn, regardless of his role.

I still think it's more valid to put pressure on Zulfy.

[clidd]

I have no idea why the game isn't moving on.

But yes, I agree with you on these two posts, Ben ^

[clidd]

Is it just me or Lenora is very complacent after Dkkoba was replaced? I feel like she went into coasting mode, although I’m very focused on Zulfy at the moment and sharing my attention with Nep to think about her.

pedit: Jesus, don't talk about that game, lol. I'm trying to forget.

[clidd]

Although you are right that the pace here is much healthier than it was there.

[clidd]

Good cards, Umlaut.

I think we're looking at a Zulfy/Lenora/Nep push by PoE today tbh. Cabd is someone that I want to give more time because if he's town he'll help a lot imo.

I'm more inclined to keep a wagon on Zulfy and see what happens and whether or not there will be any townspew on his part.

[clidd]

Join us on Zulfy then

Let's get him out of his comfort zone.

[clidd]

Non-Official Vote Count

Zulfy

(3): clidd, Umlaut, ben dover123

TheFuzzylogic99

(1): Zulfy

Cabd

(1): lenora

Not Voting

(5): TheFuzzylogic99, Maduisha, Cabd, nepenthe

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to eliminate.

Deadline

: (expired on 2021-01-27 21:11:00)

[clidd]

hmm
this game feels too easy
maybe a side effect of the game being 9p (feels a lot more smaller and we need to find less town) but the fact that hangpool is down to 3 people honestly scares me a bit.

Town is just playing better.

As long as we don't go into self-destruction or anything like that, we can hunt scum by PoE and improve the odds.

[clidd]

You scumread me because you don't townread me? what?

@Cabd it depends on which one I feel more confident by reads/impressions.

[clidd]

No idea, I'm not much of a setup-oriented player (anymore).

My guess is that VT would make sense. Scum with PR or/and goon too.

I mean, I don't know if the claim is true, but my analysis on Fuzzy points to town, so I'm inclined to think that his role is real, but I don't think that deducting the setup from that would help me in the way I do scumhunting.

[clidd]

Town with PRs/VT and scum with PR/goon is what I'm thinking.

[clidd]

Sorry, but I don't know what you're getting at.

[clidd]

If you wanna talk about reads on players, however, I'm open.

I need help with Zulfy/Lenora/Nep, if possible.

[clidd]

@Cabd I never played or saw your role before, but I have a lot of doubts about Fuzzy being scum individually (not considering role), but if there is a confirmed incompatibility between the two of you, I can do a reassessment to see which side is more likely to be scum to me, although it doesn't make much sense to claim now on the scum!you scenario after Fuzzy's wagon lost a lot of gas.

Tbh, I can see you two being both town (individually, without claims), but I don't have the level of understanding in terms of setup to conclude whether or not it is possible for you to coexist being town PRs.

[clidd]

Cabd, without the role stuff, do you think that Fuzzy i scum?

[clidd]

Spoiler:

I am claiming now..... I am the town potato.


ok now that is done
- I don't know how active I will be as I start school again tomorrow. I will try to post something of substance daily if possible depending how much homework I have.

Ok just got done reading through this thread

The only person I might of played with before might be Umlaut and that's a big maybe. There a lot of new people here so I am not sure exactly how to read them. There is also not much to work with . Page 5 in the RVS usually does not tell us much about a player in my opinion

Some observation
If Nepenthe is town he would be an easy target for scum to try to eliminate. I am not sure if Nepenthe is an awkward town or awkward scum. As both seem possible at the moment

Also dont know if Umlaut is faking outrage over the newbie posts. I been burnt by newbscum before but I also got railroaded as a new player by scum because I was an easy lynch. I think Umlaut is a player that's worth keeping my eyes on

@Ben- Fair. There was not to work with. I figured that most posts were mostly first thoughts and I wanted to see if the accusations were there to get things moving or things that players were willing to push harder. My thoughts were just basic observations that popped out. Things are moving forward and I can start to sort things out.

Zulfy- what about Chumbo specifically that pings you as scum?

Umlaut- Yeah.... my wording kind of bad. I think however my point is fair. which was I needed to sort if your paranoia is real you were feigning.

Maduisha- As I stated it was just first thoughts. Scum like easy targets and since newbie are still adjusting to the new playstyle of a new site ( all mafia sites plays differently) it makes them easy targets. Scum also sometimes like to fish. That is to test the water to see if other players will join in the elimination.A lot of time they do it before voting. On the other hand, I could just be paranoid which for me is very possible.

I might have to replace out.... Still trying to balance between school, life and this game

more later today

Lenora-

I do not like how she is just going along to get along in 128 144 and 225. She pretty much agreeing with the players she is addressing and not adding much else. Not sure if she is just coasting town or coasting here. 129 is bad .To me it very much feel likes she is trying to earn town points. The only real thing that is reading town to me is her push for more info on DK.

Zufy

- His read on Chumbo is just bad 137. I would expect more from a more experienced player. Not sure how anyone can get from drunk posting and lurking to scum. This seems like a huge leap in logic. Him avoiding the question in 139 gives me any confidence in him as town. It is true scum lurks but so does town. I am not getting how he is splitting the difference in the two. 177 reads very much reads as scum wondering if the replacement will make or push for him or me. 180 is a surface read of a few players. This was a chance to give a clear and rational reason of his town reads and scum reads. 195 and 197 is hard to read. it is very much possible that he was setting a reaction test but to me it feels a bit like he is defending his bad RVS post and I dont get why.

Dakoba

- the first few post of Koba were blah. 150 is okay I guess. I would like to hear what exactly the approach Zufy took that gave Koba the scum read. I like the pressure she is putting on Madisha here 159. I read Koba other posts and honestly, there was nothing there. I dont what to make out of her drop in quality

Chid-

I am skeptical about his based on meta as meta can be manipulated. 170 171 and 173 . I like the pressure on Zufy to clarifying his thinking 179. 188 I can see how he got a scum read on me however i dont think three posts can give a player a decent read on a player. 190- I like his line of reasoning here. He makes a good point about Zufy Chumbo read. 194- I disagree with his read on my but as I said I can see how he got there. Gut reaction from 200 and 201 feels like it is coming from town. 201 feels like a come from a scum favoring player who drew town
I like in 212 that he is trying to form strong town allies for the process of P.O.E. -222 like the push on Lerona for clarity here, Also like how he trying to sort her here
I really like his over thought process though we disagree on some things. To me I am leaning very much town . I am not sure why anyone would think he would be scum given
everything overall.


more later......

Clidd/Umlaut
I do not think I played alot in 2020. I just finished a game as scum. It might help you if you insist on going on meta.
Here is the linkhttps://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=85197

sory wrong game. here is my scum game
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=84894

as i said though I think that meta is questionable and needs back up with other proof coming directly from the game. just my humble opinion though

all my thoughts are based on page 5 and on....same as the above list

Umlaut

131 liking the push back on Zulfy here. This is something that needed clarity. 153 is weak. I am not getting why he is town reading Maduesha . If it because of her previous post there was nothing in particular that would push for a particular alignment. I found her post pretty null. I think the read needs a better explanation. I would say the same thing about his strong town read on Clidd in 165. He seems to be interacting with Clidd a lot and I dont know if it because he trying to form a town alliance or if he just budddying him. 172 feels a bit vague. what exactly about Clidds reads that he likes? 248 seems odd to me. He scum reads me then suddenly remember that in my old game I was lunchbait. Not sure what to make of this sudden revelation.


Ben Dover
192 not liking this a lot because his read on Nepthe is based on meta and I already explain why I dislike pure meta reads. His Leona and Madeusha reads are pretty basic and not very flushed out. His read on me and Zufy seems very much cut and paste with everyone else's. In fact the whole post just feel like he is just agreeing with everyone else. 199 the overall way he was apologizing seem weird to me. The abrupt 180 here feels off 229. Just a day ago he was scumreading Zulfy. The timing seems odd as well. Maeusha just put a vote on me pushing my wagon ahead. This really feel like he jumping ship because he wants to jump on my wagon. Feels very optunistic. 256- back on Zulfy. Ben seems all over the place with his Zulfy read and I am not sure what to make it. Part of me feels like he being opportunistic and trying to figure out what figure out what is the best miskill and part of me think it might be his norma sorting

@Clidd
I am taking 12 credits this semester so school is keeping me busy. Friday Satuarday and Sundays are my free days so those days will likely have better post as I will have more time to post, Those A's dont magically appears out of nowhere.

Nep seems very blah off hand. I will dive into his post hopefully later today. He doesn't seem to be very active/ Maybe he like me and is just busy with life. Definitely like to hear more from him

282- Disagree here.(Ben) Except for my Zulfy take can you show me where I was repeating other players ideas? Maybe I am missing something but I am not seeing it.For example, there was talk about Clidd and meta but it was about the meta of other players. Don't think anyone said anything against meta like I did. On Lenora, everyone was talking about her being new and Umlaut's paranoia about it but I don't remember seeing anyone talk about how she was being over agreeable in some post. I think I was also the first to say I like Clidd's reasoning but didn't agree with his conclusion. I think he might be right bout my take on Zufy however i don't think there is anything really new coming from anyone about Zufy because of how much he is being scum-read. The thing that bother me about this post is that he ignored any point I made about him and overall just felt dismissive of my post. Same thing about my other list post.

I also dont get how Ben is getting being original =town. Yes town needs to have original takes as its easy to repeat others ideas. For scum it helps them fit in and for town it makes them harder to read. Maybe I am misunderstanding him but I find it odd that he put importance on something like originality instead of the thinking behind the post or whether the post seems like it is being faked.


Lenora- How is it not agreeing when someone says I think player X is town and you say I think you are right or someone says I dont like player y post and you agree without adding really anything else. I am open to hear how I am wrong here but I believe I am not

Not sure who mentioned my DK read. I stand by it. I found that there was hardly anything that made her stand out. With Cabd replacing in I wil have to revisit that slot. Cabd seems more active and is giving more to read which should help give me a better read that slot.

More later

Cabd-

I dont. I admit I might have blinders on here however,
Yes, your slot posted 57 times but 99 percent were one sentence, links to other games or off-topic thoughts. There was almost zero quality there. Thinking about it I would consider it lurking, Posting a lot of stuff to seem active but the post being of little substance. The problem is that I find that while scum often lurks so do town. My lack of content on Dk was bc of her lack of posting or at least posting anything of real substance IMHO. I get why you might want to defend your slot but it doesn't change the fact of the previous player that held your slot

I going to go through your post today and see what I can take from your posts.

Pedit.....

Cabd-
I dont. I admit I might have blinders on here however,
Yes, your slot posted 57 times but 99 percent were one sentence, links to other games or off-topic thoughts. There was almost zero quality there. Thinking about it I would consider it lurking, Posting a lot of stuff to seem active but the post being of little substance. The problem is that I find that while scum often lurks so do town. My lack of content on Dk was bc of her lack of posting or at least posting anything of real substance IMHO. I get why you might want to defend your slot but it doesn't change the fact of the previous player that held your slot posts were lacking.

I going to go through your post today and see what I can take from your posts.

Cabd-
288- I am confused how she exactly got this town block. She need to define why those player are town. Even if it is a bit of a rehash. Okay I tried reading 294 and trying to understand what she trying to say here. I think it has to do with the shrinkage of town pool but I am prob wrong. Maybe someone can explain this to me better. Thanks/
300- I dont like how she keeping things close to her chest. I can kind of see why but I think she taking one game in another which can be hurtful to town. I think that
her playing it this way hurts the town. There another player that doing the same thing I think but the name escapes me at the moment. #04 is not a good post imho. I rected to that post already so I am going to skip it for the moment.232 seems pretty pointless. Not sure how talking about her playstyle advances the game as a whole. I get that she was asked about it but again not sure how answering this helps town. This tells me zero about her alignment. 325- So i am taking this as Cabd is still gut scumreading Umlaut. I would like to see more flush out reasoning for her read if this is true. 344 I actually like her clarifying question here. 347 Okay makes sense. I would actually steal this idea if my townreads were not so terrible on day 1. Anyways like the clarification here.

I am a 2x Neapolitan. I am okay with being mislim today but I rather not.I dont see my role as being that useful as there prob more than 4 power roles and prob one mafia goon. This is just a guess based on my role.

Clidd.
I hope you don't base my alignment based on my saying I might leave as I would make the decision despite either alignment. If I would drag the game down because of inactivity then I would leave. To me the value of the game for other players is more important than a win/loss. If you look at my other games you will see that I try always to do what right (as far nongame stuff) So my leaving or staying is NAI.

Can you explain why Ben is solid town? I am not getting it. Maybe I am being bias and I am not seeing my own blindness. I say he prob likely town if you had to put a gun to my head but I am not sure about him being anything more then that

Fair enough..... I am not good at day one . I am very much a VCA guy so until the first flip I am pretty useless. I been trying some new stuff to improve my town game. This is my prob why my content is blah but context is okay/good.

In water is wet news- Zufy is still useless (gamewise) . He has done nothing to add to the game and is def lurking IMHO. That is making post to seem active. Nep is seems to just be inactive.

@Cabd
His progression in this game is too bizarre for scum!Fuzzy. It goes from "low energy, maybe I will replace out" to "I will put effort" in a very abstract way for a scum agenda. I honestly feel that he is lost in his own impressions and the lack of a positioning/push makes the slot just "exist" in the game, being very easy to eliminate. He also showed no verbal resistance to being the elim on E-1 besides the "it's ok, but I don't want it, if possible". I just think these actions come from town!Fuzzy for the sporadic way that it occurred and the lack of benefit that it would have, in my opinion, to scum!him.

I'm on mobile rn, so this is a lazy summary of why I think he's town, but I can go into details later at home.

[clidd]

The cc thing you said, Umlaut, is another sign of confusion that I think that scum!Fuzzy wouldn't have. But I will not object if people want to revisit his wagon. My main choice for today remains Zulfy.

[clidd]

Zulfy and Lenora are yet to return to the game.

In the meantime:

Non-Official Vote Count

Zulfy

(3): clidd, Umlaut, ben dover123

TheFuzzylogic99

(1): Zulfy

Cabd

(1): lenora

Clidd

(1): nepenthe

nepenthe

(1): Maduisha

Not Voting

(5): TheFuzzylogic99, Cabd

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to eliminate.

Deadline

: (expired on 2021-01-27 21:11:00)

[clidd]

I am comfortable with the current wagon.

If I were to consider a pivot, it would probably be to Lenora, but it is very unlikely that there is support for that.

Fuzzy remains weird, but in a towny way. Cabd is someone I intend to keep in the game, towny pings. Maduisha, Ben and Umlaut are strong townreads.

Nep is a special case that I am still evaluating, but I did not feel any scummy traces in her explanations, although she literally ignored what I asked. No interest in pivoting to her today.

That's all.

[clidd]

You can put him on E-1, I don't know if I'll be able to visit the thread in the morning.

[clidd]

Good night, Miss Maduisha.

I hope to see you on D2, if we are both alive.

[clidd]

Multiple folks from Europe, eh? Nice.

I'll be around, it's only 5PM here.

You are lucky, lol.

[clidd]

By the way, Zulfy, if you're reading this, it's time to claim.

Get out of your scum den and post.

[clidd]

Update:

Non-Official Vote Count

Zulfy

(4): clidd, Umlaut, ben dover123, Maduisha

TheFuzzylogic99

(1): Zulfy

Cabd

(1): lenora

Clidd

(1): nepenthe

Not Voting

(5): TheFuzzylogic99, Cabd

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to eliminate.

Deadline

: (expired on 2021-01-27 21:11:00)

[clidd]

Scum!Fuzzy just needed to coast and wait for us to get rid of Zulfy. There is no incentive for him to post.

So I still think that he is town acting in an unintentionally disconnected/confused way. Like his name says: "Fuzzy logic".

[clidd]

I don't expect a last-minute claim to change anything about Zulfy's situation tbh.

[clidd]

I can see scum!Zulfy being lazy, if that's your concern.

pedit: Thanks, Umlaut.

[clidd]

I agree Umlaut, although my expectation is that a stronger vocal threat would be eliminated in Ben's place.

There is something more to this, but I am still wondering what it could be besides the ''someone on my townblock is scum''.

Changing the subject, what's your result @Cabd?

[clidd]

Ok, no problem.

[clidd]

Because when I reveal I think it'll be obvious.

No idea what this means.

[clidd]

I'll wait for Max to post his ideas about the game to see if I can get some read on his slot.

Regarding the results, if you two want to wait a little longer, Cabd and Fuzzy, that's fine.

[clidd]

Cabd, I have two questions:

- What is your view on Fuzzy rn? (town/scum)
- Do you think that Umlaut is scum by PoE, or it's your gut ping from D1?

[clidd]

It makes sense to me your reasoning to check me out.

But I expected a more resolute instance of yours in relation to the game.

I don't know if you're still saving your reads or playing in real time.

Something I wanted your opinion too was the possibility of Maduisha being a deepwolf, as she is my strongest TR in the game, and a more concrete impression if Fuzzy's behavior makes sense from scum or not.

Regarding Umlaut, nothing has made me feel that he has acted maliciously (scummy) so far.

[clidd]

Ok, so it's time for Fuzzy to say his result.

[clidd]

While we wait, btw:

VOTE: Maxwell

[clidd]

The vote is just a way of expressing my impression of your entry.

I'm looking forward to see your reads after the claim/result stuff.

[clidd]

And I think your points on Fuzzy are valid, Maduisha.

The problem is that he is someone with a confused nature and there is a chance that what he said made sense from his pov (although it's logically bizarre).

But if he's scum, and I'm wrong, we'll find out today.

[clidd]

Ok, I'm in a curious position.

I agree that two investigators + doctor does not make much sense and that there is scum between the two.

We already have the most important roles exposed, so I don't think we have much of a choice but to complete the mass-claim.

I would suggest an order of Umlaut>Nep>Maduisha.

[clidd]

Although I kind of already know Umlaut's role, technically speaking, but I don't know the full version of it.

[clidd]

After these claims, I hope to finally see Cabd's reads. This will probably be the game changer between him and Fuzzy.

As for you, Max, I had a very subjective reason to think that your entry was scummy, based on meta.

But, regardless of that, I need to see your individual reads in each slot (player ''x'' is town/scum for reason ''y'' and etc).

[clidd]

Strongly inclined to think fuzzy's the legitimate claim, his play as I'm seeing it makes sense for him, some of it might not make sense to others but I don't see him claiming the way he did as scum and his attempts to analyze peopl felt believable, by comparison his recent scumgame had not much depth of thought overall. By contrast see a lot of scum motivation Cabd's claim and thought he + koba were quite scummy overall.

If Cabd is scum I think the most likely partner is Maduisha, were a few things when I was reading I didn't like but this is sort of a gut feeling. Could also see nepenthe as scum though as I feel he's been super underwhelming, but had a slight sense that may have been strong belief in his clidd push even if I think it's really wrong.

If I'm wrong and fuzzy is scum (been fooled by bad PR claims before), then nepenthe is pretty much the only person I see as a partner.

Think clidd and Umlaut are pretty likely town no matter what.

In practice, it would be something more expansive/individual than this post ^

Particularly, I don't know if being a doctor in this setup makes you mechanically or not town, but if not, I still need to evaluate you regardless of role.

[clidd]

Regarding Nep, I was rereading the D1 and found it towny the way he approached the impression about my predecessor (Chumbo) and me separately.

It's not like scum!he really thought he could push me, so I imagine the playstyle-based SR (which could easily be refuted) is something that might make more sense to town!him to think, as he could see long texts/less direct tone as potentially non-genuine (scummy), while the behavior of Chumbo (shorter texts/direct tone) as potentially more genuine (towny).

I noticed that his last game was as scum and, after being replaced, a player named Nora took over the slot and by her ISO you can see that she nurtured a great activity and width of posts:

viewtopic.php?t=84118&f=50&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

What may have made a negative impression on newbie!Nep about players who have a similar playstyle (consequently, interpreting them as scummy).

Which would explain why he posted this about my posts:

i feel like this is so much talking to express a simple idea, which i usually think is scum indicative. town is generally way more to the point, as they don't have to try too hard to look like they're contributing whereas it's in maf's best interest to maximize everything so it looks like they have "content" and are proactive. i call bluff.

But, of course, this is speculation. I'm also interested in seeing Nep's updated reads after the last events.

[clidd]

You will laugh if I show you the reason I based my scummy impression.

Still want to see?

[clidd]

Anyways, I do need to see your reasoning. It's important to me.

[clidd]

Maduisha can be a deepwolf, but I'm just not seeing rn. She's my strongest TR.

Umlaut is my second TR, not as strong compared to Maduisha, but strong enough for me to be comfortable with the way he played so far. I have no reason to think he is scum unless my PoE points this out.

[clidd]

And that's all.

No info to speculate anything more at the moment.

I hope there is enough time left to reconcile the claims and reads in a scum elimination.

[clidd]

[clidd]

Yeah, kiddo is falling asleep, i'll get to it later, but not really sure where the townread in Umlaut comes from and am a little confused as to how many people got there.

Some of this shit really pinged.

Comes from D1, but I'm starting to miss his engagement with the game.

[clidd]

You will laugh if I show you the reason I based my scummy impression.

Still want to see?

Hah, not that important right now, I suppose.

Anyways, I do need to see your reasoning. It's important to me.

Completely understand, will get to it when I have time.

Take your time (but not too long).

[clidd]

prodge. Not sure who even flipped yet lol. Will try to be more active sorry.

Lol, hello old friend.

Sorry for encouraging your elimination. I have to relearn your meta after this game.

[clidd]

This is not a prodge because I'm not due for a prod. Probably not going to engage in this game again til tomorrow evening. I'm surprised Clidd put me first in claim order given he has me as a townread, but I'll do it if that's what we've all decided we're doing.

Did Fuzzy give his result before Maxwell claimed? If not that was a missed opportunity, there's a chance Fuzzy would have claimed he was VT.

It was more me being paranoid than me going back on the townread. I actually need to see your updated takes on the game.

[clidd]

Max_ You did not have to claim. You could of just said yes or no. Yes Fuzzy is right or no he is lying. If a player forced you to claim then it would of been on them. Please do not blame me for your bad decision. i make enough bad decisions on my own i do not need to be given credit for other players decision. My cup runnenth over with poor decison

Umlaut- I claimed before Max.Make of that what you will

I'm kind of hoping to get a read from Cabd to be able to assess whether my impression of you so far is wrong or not.

[clidd]

Spoiler:

I did think about checking Cadb last night, I did not for 3x reason
1) I didn't want to push the issue....
A lot of time I overthink an issue and I begin to tunnel ideas that sometimes makes zero sense. I figured the best course for me was to take break from the Cabd thing and rethink about it on day 2. If I investigated I felt like I would be feeding my paranoia. I was kind of hoping that scum would target Cabd and it would be blocked if her claim was true or killed if she was bluffing. Whoever scum is very likely believed her claims as they went someplace else for the kill IMHO.
2) The town is TR her atp
The best I could get would be a VT which would only prove that she was doing a reaction test. The worst is I would get a not VT which would say she either has a PR or scum. Giving her claim it did not seem that
checking her would really clear or help sort her slot. Neither it would change anyone reads/ In short.... despite my thought on her claim checking her would not help town
3) It would be better to go for someone that was on the edge and see if they were VT.
I thought his role might be either a PR or scum that was lurking. I don't know the player and as I said I try not to go on meta so I dont know if it was something they likely to do. Also if I was wrong then I would hit a VT and would help clear a slot.

1) I think this segment is fair, but I want you to explain the part that says "I was kind of hoping that scum would target Cabd and it would be blocked if her claim was true", because I'm not exactly making sense of the phrase.

2) Do you think being able to corroborate that it was a reaction test or NK bait is not valuable? I've seen games crumble because of town fakeclaims.

3) You said you had a "theory" about Lenora. Was it that she was PR because she was inactive...? Nepenthe was inactive too, and you didn't consider him either according to your words describing your decision process. Why is that?

Strongly inclined to think fuzzy's the legitimate claim, his play as I'm seeing it makes sense for him, some of it might not make sense to others but I don't see him claiming the way he did as scum and his attempts to analyze peopl felt believable, by comparison his recent scumgame had not much depth of thought overall. By contrast see a lot of scum motivation Cabd's claim and thought he + koba were quite scummy overall.

I want to hear what are your reasons in favor to town!Fuzzy as opposed to town!Cabd. I know you just replaced in, so events aren't in the same pace for you than for the rest of us, but as a reminder, Fuzzy claimed out of being put at E-1, while Cabd claimed unprompted, which is a lot riskier to do as scum, imo.

If Cabd is scum I think the most likely partner is Maduisha, were a few things when I was reading I didn't like but this is sort of a gut feeling. Could also see nepenthe as scum though as I feel he's been super underwhelming, but had a slight sense that may have been strong belief in his clidd push even if I think it's really wrong.

This is gonna sound like I'm butthurt that you're scumreading me, but I would like to know what are the things that gave you that gut feeling. I think getting scumread and pushed by someone at least lets me get a good idea of who's behind the push and the mentality behind it, so I would like it if you explained to me the things that make you feel I'm scummy.

And yeah, I think Fuzzy is scummy, but even then I have to agree with him that Maxwell could've given a yes/no instead of outing which PR he has. Ah, well, none of the investigatives got blocked, so maybe it's not so bad that Max outed.

Anyway, the massclaim is inevitable at this point: I'm VT.

Those are good questions ^

I think Maduisha is outside of her scumrange and maybe the possibility of deepwolf is not as tangible as I was imagining.

[clidd]

I confirm, Umlaut.

Only Nep's claim is missing now.

[clidd]

For now:

UNVOTE: Maxwell

[clidd]

My thoughts are basically aligned with Umlaut's pov, I also think there are 2 scums within {Cabd, Fuzzy, Nep} ^

Everyone outside that pool reflected me as towny in one way or another recently.

[clidd]

But I'm still waiting for Cabd (which should have a more expressive entry after Nep's claim).

Depending on the impression I get, it is possible that my PoE will change completely. Let's see.

[clidd]

One of the problems I have with this pool, however, is that I did three reevaluations of Nep during the game and in two I came to the conclusion that some of his behaviors between D1-D2 would not make much sense if they were coming from a scum pov.

He treating me and Chumbo as separate slots at the same time that he had one as towny and the other as scummy didn't seem like an instance that scum!Nep would get some advantage. He also made no effort to contextualize better motives other than playstyle to suspect me, which could easily be refuted by meta. It looked lazy and a little incompetent if that was a scum posture or agenda. The direct way in which he answered me when I addressed this topic also surprised me, because he effectively ignored what I had suggested (to delve into the reasons) so that I could have a better view on his reasoning. It wasn't important to him whether I understood his SR or not, and I imagine that scum!Nep wouldn't be interested in a 1v1 without support/material to guarantee his side and make the case more persuasive.

I mean, he can be scum by PoE, but he's playing at random if that's the case. Which makes me feel like I'm wrong in someone of my townpool.

[clidd]

Zulfy Prod

Zulfy is dead.

Spoiler:

[clidd]

Samantha97 replaces Nepenthe. Please welcome them!

Welcome, Samantha.

The left side of my brain says that you're scum and the right side says that you're town.

Help me.

[clidd]

Well, that's a lot of setup spec.

I got what was discussed, but it didn't help me in the sense of reads.

I still need to see from Sam some impression that leads me to believe that Maduisha is scum, in addition to the possible mechanical aspect.

And in relation to Cabd, I believe he has more to say, besides the setup organization.

[clidd]

In particular, I'm someone more oriented towards reads/impressions than mechanics.

So I kind of need to understand if there is any indication that a player is scum other than "his role is false".

[clidd]

Something like "hey, look at this post" or "scummy behavior in posts x, y and z" or even "scum agenda, positioning here, there and etc".

If you know what I mean.

[clidd]

I'm VT, btw, Sam.

Although it may have been evident from the way I played until now.

[clidd]

And I know that understanding the setup can be beneficial if done correctly, so I don't want to discourage town from continuing to give their opinion on this topic, but I don't think I will be of much help.

[clidd]

I mean, idk if without a doctor the setup would make more sense or not. My head stills on the investigative thing (Cabd/Fuzzy).

The claim that it's more "ok" for me rn is Umlaut, both mechanically and individually (which is disregarding the claim), so I intend to discuss the issue above on the hood before taking a stance.

[clidd]

I'm not sure why you think Cabd wouldn't do that as scum. He won a game with 4/5 scums without losing a single partner (a clean win). I would share your view if I was underestimating his ability as scum (which is not the case).

Regarding leaving the two investigators alive, assuming there is a scum between them, and making Max (assuming his claim is true) target Cabd, it will basically make the scumteam kill me to keep the atmosphere of doubt about the claims on D3 (where it will be worse to solve, since it will be elo/lylo and town can't miss). Scum!Cabd can just fake-guilty then on someone (probably Max) and that's it.

Not saying that Cabd is scum, but ignoring/not solving both cop claims today (and Max's claim), is not a good play imo.

[clidd]

Spoiler:

Nah, you're deliberately being evasive in your stances. You're refusing to commit to a read on multiple players or analyze the likelihood of possible scumteams, because if you try to actually look for a scumbuddy for fuzzy, it falls apart pretty quickly. Last I communicate with you on the matter. Fairly sure you're scum now so I'm not going to bother debating you anymore. My words are for those I need to convince.

I openly talked about my PoE being open to options... but okay... I don't wish to continue this anymore either...

I'll just take a break before my blood boils. I'm ashamed of replying from anger like I always do because it detracts from game quality and admittedly I'm letting my mood from real life issues add to my existing frustration here. If people agree with you, then I have no problem being the elimination to narrow the PoE, which is what ultimately matters.

Here's my "Hour commute home voice to text" notes. Please forgive typos, Chicago highways don't exactly allow for editing. I'll condense into something more coherent tonight after kiddo sleeps.

Maxwell and one more
My inclination is that it is probably the slot that got replaced that was Lenora I think it was
It could also be fuzzy or umlaut
But I'm less sure of those reads
It definitely isn't My innocent and I would be really really surprised if it's the purple-haired lady
The reason I don't think it's fuzzy is because two shot cop one shot neighborizer and that's it is not enough town power even against two goons according to the normal review group
So I believe one of fuzzy or Maxwell could pretty much have to be telling the truth and if I have to choose between the two it's a very obvious choice
I could easily see going double investigative no protective I really don't think we could see follow the cop
At least with the current set of normal reviewers
The Spaniard is a town read but one that I was liable to get super paranoid on so I don't think checking him was a bad choice at all I'm glad he's town I just hope it comes to the right decision in that he's talking in his neighborhood right now with um lot and trying to figure out what he thinks about the whole situation about claims on the board
The purple-haired lass it's just town by play I don't have any particular claim based or set up based speculation to clear her but the fact that Maxwell is trying to drag her into a protracted 1v1 feels like what Borg did to prism back in the game that just finished on day one
I had really hope that throwing out naked and in some cases extremely unearned town reads on some of these slots that had low content would lead to them engaging me and challenging me on the read in a way that I could possibly get a read on them but instead they just lurked out and got replaced and that really sucked
I would go as far as to say that it even backfired as a strategy for me
I suppose there exists a world in which there's another town PR that is staying hidden but I really don't think that's the case because most town PR's at this point that would hide would be investigative which would have already counterclaimed or protective which also would have counterclaimed for the guaranteed scum
I could see something like a town bulletproof counter claiming My fake out self-protective stuff so I really don't see that kind of a roll hiding right now either It just doesn't make sense but then again a lot of this stuff doesn't make sense

I just went through all of chumbo's mafia games, then compared 2 of maduisha's (town/mafia), and 2 of cabd's (town games - not mafia for years?) to this one

chumbo gave me nothing

viewtopic.php?p=12524008&user_select%5B%5D=35093 this game
viewtopic.php?p=12449995&user_select%5B%5D=35093 mason
viewtopic.php?p=12381275&user_select%5B%5D=35093 mafia


maduisha's were surprisingly similar, the main thing I noticed was that she was aggressive a lottt faster as town, and with mafia her tone visibly shifted. I also noticed a tendency to post too much information compared to town, like not a "slip" but rather trying too hard

viewtopic.php?p=12524333&user_select%5B%5D=33961 this game
viewtopic.php?f=50&t=82949&user_select%5B%5D=33961 mafia
viewtopic.php?p=12469439&user_select%5B%5D=33961 town


I was planning to keep going down the list of players before posting anything, but holy heck is cabd posting differently in this game. I mean I get that they are games of different sizes with different players, and that can affect what you write a lot, but it's like night and day

viewtopic.php?p=12569559&user_select%5B%5D=20847 this game
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=84949&user_select%5B%5D=20847 town 1
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=85085&user_select%5B%5D=20847 town 2

it's so stark that it's noticeable even if you don't read what he wrote and just scroll down the pages quickly

[clidd]

VOTE: Sam

[clidd]

UNVOTE: Sam

[clidd]

Max, do you think Maduisha is actually more likely to be scum than Sam? I would like to see a scumcase or something like that if you have the energy. If not, just summarize by citing posts.

Nothing Sam has done so far has given me the impression that she is genuinely town/solving.

[clidd]

Ok, I will resume the topic on the hood with Umlaut tomorrow then.

Still need to see reasons (with posts) of scum!Maduisha over scum!Sam.

For now: VOTE: Cabd

[clidd]

UNVOTE: Cabd

[clidd]

Max, are you there?

After a debate, I kind of agree with Umlaut to eliminate between Maduisha and Sam today.

But, again, how confident do you think you're on scum!Maduisha over scum!Sam?

[clidd]

I wish you well too, Cabd.

[clidd]

Btw, Max, your final conclusion is 50/50 or just Maduisha?

[clidd]

Day 2 ends in (expired on 2021-02-06 08:12:00)
*Deadline has been extended by request*

New

:
Day 2 ends in (expired on 2021-02-06 11:08:00)

We have something like 1 more day to think.

I'll let Umlaut make a mech plan for tonight, but would appreciate suggestions.

[clidd]

Sounds good, Umlaut.

And you shouldn't be worried that I trust you if you're town, right?

[clidd]

Ok, I'll get some sleep now.

This game has drained a lot of energy, but I believe that we are close to a solve.

[clidd]

Newbie 1995 was a mess, lol.

I'm glad that I replaced out before the storm.

[clidd]

So, are we good with the plan and etc?

VOTE: Maduisha

Does anyone want to protest that we should eliminate Sam?
Or protest against the elimination of Maduisha?

[clidd]

I am inclined to coinflip my target, yes.

I have no preference for which pool. Clidd is the one I want signing off on the final plan for obvious reasons.

It's ok, just do what Umlaut said.

[clidd]

And, well, I hope you feel better, Miss Maduisha.

Mafia is a naturally stressful game and knowing how to deal with that stress is important.

Just don't get too attached and remember it's a game (and you're supposed to have fun).

pedit: ?

Wait, you shouldn't self. I mean, if you're town, this is your time to fight for your life.

[clidd]

What? No, I'm trying to assess whether Max is right or not about you being scum.

And that doesn't include making you self-eliminate to help my PoE.

[clidd]

Alright.

UNVOTE: Maduisha

[clidd]

Next target:

VOTE: samantha

[clidd]

Does anyone want to protest that we should eliminate

Sam

Maduisha?
Or protest against the elimination of

Maduisha

Sam?

[clidd]

Do you see something scummy on Maduisha by ISO, Sam?

[clidd]

Ok, just that?

[clidd]

UNVOTE: samantha97

Let me check something then.

[clidd]

Ok, let's go back to: VOTE: Maduisha

If she's scum, good. If she's town, ok, we learn something. I kind of just want to end the day.

Sam is scummy, but Nep had some peculiarities that sound like a towny dissonance or something like that, so yeah, I'll just ignore that for now.

[clidd]

Also none of you are cohort players lol. That's not an insult but an actuality.

what's a cohort player?

And if Nep was scum (speculation), I don't think she would interfere after being replaced (assuming she had a scum PT to look etc)

Ohhhh lol

Something similar to Zulfy commenting after he was dead, considering he had no PT to look at.

[clidd]

Other reason is that if Maduisha flips town, I can blame Max regardless of the alignment he is (since the idea of ​​scumread on Maduisha came from him)

[clidd]

He's the kind of mod who prods a dead player, so..

Send a PM.

[clidd]

He said on the hood (that was a long time ago) that one of the paranoia scenarios could be Cabd + Clidd, but idk if he truly considers that as possible.

[clidd]

Alright.

Sam, Fuzzy and Cabd know what to do tonight.

Even so, it's better if someone do the hammer closer to deadline, so we'll have time to talk more.

[clidd]

After a reread, I still saw Nep as towny (erratically), so Sam should be town too in theory.

[clidd]

I just went through all of chumbo's mafia games, then compared 2 of maduisha's (town/mafia), and 2 of cabd's (town games - not mafia for years?) to this one

chumbo gave me nothing

viewtopic.php?p=12524008&user_select%5B%5D=35093 this game
viewtopic.php?p=12449995&user_select%5B%5D=35093 mason
viewtopic.php?p=12381275&user_select%5B%5D=35093 mafia


maduisha's were surprisingly similar, the main thing I noticed was that she was aggressive a lottt faster as town, and with mafia her tone visibly shifted. I also noticed a tendency to post too much information compared to town, like not a "slip" but rather trying too hard

viewtopic.php?p=12524333&user_select%5B%5D=33961 this game
viewtopic.php?f=50&t=82949&user_select%5B%5D=33961 mafia
viewtopic.php?p=12469439&user_select%5B%5D=33961 town


I was planning to keep going down the list of players before posting anything, but holy heck is cabd posting differently in this game. I mean I get that they are games of different sizes with different players, and that can affect what you write a lot, but it's like night and day

viewtopic.php?p=12569559&user_select%5B%5D=20847 this game
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=84949&user_select%5B%5D=20847 town 1
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=85085&user_select%5B%5D=20847 town 2

it's so stark that it's noticeable even if you don't read what he wrote and just scroll down the pages quickly

Although this pinged me as a false attempt to solve ^

But, comparatively, my impression of Nep being town is prob stronger, so I'm going to ignore it for now.

[clidd]

Ok, a lot of stuff going on, but I still want Maduisha.

I'm not a fan of Sam, but she still hasn't broken the impression I have of Nep (predecessor), so I'm giving a pass.

Regarding Max, I have some towny and scummy points, but his predecessor (Lenora) still beats the predecessor of his counterpart (Dkkoba), so he also has a pass for today.

It is interesting to note that we still need a flip, regardless of whether it is town or scum (although a scum flip would be fantastic), so speculations of pre-flip partnership are not going to be useful.

[clidd]

@Max

I'm considering the suspicion about me and the way he differentiated Chumbo (my predecessor) and my entry to have different reads on the slot.

Many errors that I imagine would make more sense coming from a town!Nep acting in an unfiltered way/not reflecting on how your posts would be viewed, than scum!Nep creating a false read progression on me.

If you research, his last game was as scum and his attitude during the game was mostly friendly with whoever was town, but hostile with his own scumpartner. He doesn't seem to be the type of scumplayer who would engage in a 1v1 with town, especially one that apparently would be, theoretically, vocally difficult to eliminate or cast shade.

But again, these are assumptions, I can be wrong.

[clidd]

Ok, I'll be back in 1 or 2 hours. I need a break to think.

If you think that Maduisha is town and Sam scum, just keep the ball rolling and I'll take a look later.

[clidd]

Alright.

I'm still comfortable with the wagon on Maduisha after another reread.

In the balance of Maduisha against Sam, in my mind, Maduisha is the PoE side that I consider most likely to be scum.

[clidd]

And maybe there was an error on my part in evaluating Maduisha's meta early.

After reviewing the games (scumgames):

- viewtopic.php?t=82949&f=50&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go
- viewtopic.php?t=82461&f=50&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

I noticed that she does have the capacity to be in her scum-range here. There was no break, tbh.

[clidd]

Maybe earlier this was true, considering that I felt that she was approaching the game differently, but her current ISO content isn't out of the scum!Maduisha range of what she could say/do.

Another point is that I am not seeing proactivity on her part atm. There is a lot of complacency in explaining that Max is not a partner and that her solve can be an x, y or z player, but without a specific focus on a set of players or just a deepening of a scumread. Her current impressions are on a superficial level.

[clidd]

It does not mean that she is strongly a scumread.

But the reasons I was having for thinking she was towny basically dissipated and I think it's a healthy hypothesis to consider that she can be scum.

Alternatively, she can be town, but her actual involvement in the resolutive sense is reflecting me as potentially scummy.

[clidd]

Good night guys.

Don't forget to follow the plan according to what Umlaut specified.

[clidd]

I mean Max, Fuzzy and Cabd.

Your name was in my mind for some reason.

[clidd]

Protect me then, no problem.

[clidd]

Let's see the flip first.

[clidd]

I kind of don't want to give an opinion on anything at the moment, considering that I'm still reading some stuff.

So feel free to talk to each other.

[clidd]

Fuzzy, do you realize that you didn't post any counterpoint to what Max and Umlaut said?

And nothing to assume scum!Sam as well.

You said that Max is trying to promote a narrative, so wouldn't that point to him being scum compared to the reason ("opportunism") that motivated your vote on Sam? what made you think Sam is more scummy than Max?

And Sam claimed VT, to assume that she is mafia would be to say that both Max and Umlaut are town and that from your pov would be 2 cops + doctor + Neighborizer vs Rb + goon .. Does that tell you something? And even if she's scum PR, you had a chance to check her during the night, where's the result?

pedit: Hallo Umlaut

[clidd]

D3 lasted three pages, lol.

My new personal time record.

[clidd]

I kind of want Fuzzy to be town so we have one more day to play.

Speedrunning isn't fun imo.

[clidd]

Fast night sounds good.

But considering that our mod is Sirius, idk if it'll happen.

[clidd]

She was in a good spot from D1 to middle D2 tbh.

But with the replacements, town managed to reassess a good part of the bad reads.

[clidd]

You surprised me with your effort here, Fuzzy.

It wasn't the classic scum!Fuzzy I was expecting when I analyzed your meta.

Good job.

[clidd]

I was going to say that too ^

Btw, sorry for the paranoia. I was trying to be careful to avoid being manipulated indirectly by you (in the scenario where you were scum using your knowledge of how my meta process works to direct my perception of your slot).

[clidd]

Well, that's it.

Thanks for the game, guys.

It was a hemorrhagic pleasure to participate.

[clidd]

You played little here and we didn't have a chance to engage on these issues before your replacement, so I'm not taking the point where I didn't identify you as town on d1 very seriously.

The tmi was a plausible assumption, since you didn't contextualize the early impression on chumbo. I cannot say, however, what conclusion I would have had if you remained in the game. We still need to play together for a whole day to check the current read accuracy of both parties.