Mini Normal 2214 || Game Over!

[Dwlee99]

Masons weigh in please.

[Dwlee99]

Couldn't it be Nero, Rae, and Sig?

[Dwlee99]

Think of it this way... the scum team is confirmed to me.

to you it is

rae

+

one of {sigmund, dwlee, nero cain}

right? so how does this narrow anything further than it already is,

Huh? One of?

[Dwlee99]

God, Shiki please don't be evil. Is that a slip??

[Dwlee99]

Why not from yours...?

[Dwlee99]

Because Sig is the back up plan.

What does this even mean? In no way for you is sig mech cleared.

[Dwlee99]

Any solve with me in it is dogshit.

[Dwlee99]

Vfp if you're town I'm reporting you for game throwing btw.

[Dwlee99]

Okay good luck with that homie.

[Dwlee99]

If Nero is town and you're town game is already over. Shiki has won our hearts and minds.

[Dwlee99]

Why are you treating me as more likely town here than scum?

I'm not, you're practically scum claiming. Just letting you know you're dumb if you're town.

[Dwlee99]

If Nero is town and you're town game is already over. Shiki has won our hearts and minds.

Isn't the game over anyway if Shiki is scum?
If Shiki Sig and Rae were the actual scum team, then don't I get limmed regardless?

Nero and you town implies shiki sig rae scum. They're equivalent.

[Dwlee99]

Nero is this going to come down to who can towntell harder in 2 days?

Nero and you town implies shiki sig rae scum. They're equivalent.

Do you think Nero is town?

No

[Dwlee99]

I'm cleared to town with a brain I think. I don't kill Gamma I don't kill Anya.

Nero is this going to come down to who can towntell harder in 2 days?

Nero and you town implies shiki sig rae scum. They're equivalent.

Do you think Nero is town?

No

So explain to me how I am game throwing if 2 scum are voting me?

Voting yourself as town in MELO is actually the quintessential game throwing example as town.

[Dwlee99]

VFP you're treating my reads like I know everyone's alignment or something.

[Dwlee99]

Even without a Dwlee vote here, Nero and Rae are confirmed scum to me with no hammer.
As I said, a traitor flip confirms me, regardless how you like to play it, a scum team flip doesn't confirm me.

Buddy, you're two votes from hammer. Even fypov you can't confirm Nero!scum.

[Dwlee99]

I'm cleared to town with a brain I think. I don't kill Gamma I don't kill Anya.

Okay? I don't think scum me kills Anya there.
What's the argument here?

Anya wanted to kill your slot wtf are you talking about you don't kill Anya.

[Dwlee99]

Oh right okay I guess if you're town you know Nero is evil.

[Dwlee99]

Trying to figure out if any slot can be confirmed scum fmpov without assuming Shiki town.

I'm cleared to town with a brain I think. I don't kill Gamma I don't kill Anya.

Okay? I don't think scum me kills Anya there.
What's the argument here?

Anya wanted to kill your slot wtf are you talking about you don't kill Anya.

I kill for roles not threat.
As I said, what's your argument?

Do you not kill someone because they are town reading you, or do you kill to use the "they wanted you dead" card?

This could make sense if it was isolated to just Anya, but I don't kill Gamma there.

[Dwlee99]

One thing I don't get about Rae's guilty: if the scum "definitely have a way to fuck with it" etc. their wording, they didnt get fucked with last night?

[Dwlee99]

I'm with Shiki on this, I need to digest the claim and everything.

[Dwlee99]

You claimed PR yesterday so I figure they'd roleblock you last night if they could.

[Dwlee99]

Lol if Nero/VFP/Sigmund with one traitor is the team and they just didn't read the thread.

[Dwlee99]

I figure Sigmund would be traitor if there is one in that team.

[Dwlee99]

Shiki this is all my fault for going on Anne instead of the Nero slot, I'm sorry.

[Dwlee99]

Well specifically I said "what if instead of Nero we considered Anne" and then VFP slot and Nero slot jumped in and Sigmund killed it. Okay maybe that just makes sense as the team and anything else is overthinking it.

[Dwlee99]

Nero, I think you know me well enough to know when I'm town. That you think I'm scum is kind of scum claim here.

[Dwlee99]

A lot of those games were years ago so maybe not.

[Dwlee99]

I thought we played a bunch together cause I remembered your name when I came back.

[Dwlee99]

viewtopic.php?p=7657623#p7657623
You were on my D1 miselim wagon here

[Dwlee99]

viewtopic.php?p=7528923#p7528923
I miselimed you too here though.

I mean, I remembered the games from back then but probably cause I took a long break.

[Dwlee99]

Well everyone misreads everyone sometimes or this game wouldn't be fun.

[Dwlee99]

lol @ posting a game from 4-5 years ago.

Lol @ scum theatre

I like how we are both accusing each other of theatre with DW.

Seems like maybe I'm just town and you're both scum or dumb

[Dwlee99]

Damn, that was a great page top

[Dwlee99]

Okay so here's what I think:

If Rae is evil and Sigmund is good, Rae claims a guilty on Sigmund because Sig is an obvious check and also scummy as fuck. Gg scum win etc. That means if Rae is evil, it has to be with Sigmund imo. Assuming VFP town (so no bussing), Nero is confirmed scum because otherwise two scum (sig + shiki?) could log on and hammer this. Okay, so assuming Rae is evil I think that Nero and Sig have to be evil as well.

If Rae is good, then the team is VFP + two of {Nero, Sig, Shiki}. Now the question is if we discard the Shiki slot from the list. If we do then Nero + Sig are still scum regardless of Rae's alignment. If we don't, then it is possible that one of them isn't and Shiki is evil but I think at this point a lot of us are trusting the game on Shiki not tricking us.

[Dwlee99]

Anyway I think Sig has to flip scum here.

[Dwlee99]

How are you conftown? Only way you are town imo is Rae!town and Shiki has tricked us.

[Dwlee99]

Okay VFP I'm confirmed town now if you're town.

[Dwlee99]

You put VFP at E-1

[Dwlee99]

VFP (3) - Rae, VFP, Nero

[Dwlee99]

VFP the only thing that could convince me you're good is if you can convince me that the novice macho cop would make this game unbalanced. I'm trying to find all the 12p games and look at how they've been balanced but I don't know how to find them.

I'm also trying to figure out if killing outside of the guilty 1v1 could work.

[Dwlee99]

Rae could have just said like "Shiki town" or something for the first result.

[Dwlee99]

The more results the muddier it can get on questions.
Scum want to give as little as possible.

Ask yourself, why did Rae not check Nero?

Why do you think Rae has to check Nero?

I havent finished reading yet, but is Shiki a scum read to Rae day 1?

I don't remember.

[Dwlee99]

all this stupid shit about who's confirmed who is nonsense as well. the only person confirmed is vfp and then you go off that for the rest of the game.

What do you mean?

[Dwlee99]

despite me being all rah rah about the lack of hammer telling you that's overzealous of me. it should be the same for anyone else. i want to believe that scum will try to save vfp no matter what and the details shouldn't be put into it. i am also not going to play these ridiculous headgames. scum self-vote to appeal all the fucking time.

I still don't understand how this relates to the "who's confirmed is nonsense" take. The confirmed things are only from certain people's perspectives assuming they are town. Is your point that none of it matters because VFP flips scum here anyway?

[Dwlee99]

VFP's most recent posts make me think they're more scum frustrated with the town power and what they've been given than a town player trying to argue the cop isn't a thing.

[Dwlee99]

HURT: VFP

Want the masons to weigh in but I think I've made up my mind. Rae is almost certainly town to the point that I think if Rae tells me tomorrow that Shiki is evil I will believe him.

[Dwlee99]

I just saw the FN claim.
I think this game is solved then.

Lim me.
Lim in the masons
If fake lim the other Mason, if real, it's just Dunn and Egix.

Both pairs have credit to lie on the roles.
Masons were just caught if scum
Egix is the lim if claiming VT.

Do it in that order as town won't have FN's and Masons

VOTE: VFP

Here is VFP doing the same thing in a different mini as scum. Shiki I'm now pretending you're an IC. Rae check someone in {me, Nero, Sigmund} doctors both protect Shiki I think.

VOTE: VFP

[Dwlee99]

wait unvote need to think about no elimination again

UNVOTE:

[Dwlee99]

I like the idea of not no-eliminating here because it's possible we hit a roleblocker or something which gets Rae more results. Plus we keep confirmed town to talk to about the game state around.

[Dwlee99]

If we are going to eliminate VFP we should do it before no eliminating in case VFP is a role that can counter a cop. If you want to throw Rae off a roof then my only reason for not no eliminating is that we keep two confirmed town voices in the game in T3 and Johnny (if they're here)

[Dwlee99]

I think we have a better chance of Rae getting as check off if we kill VFP first because VFP could have a way to block Rae's action from going through.

[Dwlee99]

I think we have a better chance of Rae getting as check off if we kill VFP first because VFP could have a way to block Rae's action from going through.

you think there's a higher chance of vfp being a roleblocker than of the mafia killing rae if vfp is eliminated and flips mafia today?

that doesn't seem right to me

I think we have a better chance of winning if we kill VFP today for a variety of percent reasons. I think regardless of what happens we should just kill VFP -> Nero -> Sigmund in that order anyway.

[Dwlee99]

I think we have a better chance of winning if we kill VFP today for a variety of percent reasons.

i dunno, kinda feels like you do not want a no elimination for nefarious reasons

If VFP is town I'm town. What nefarious purpose do you think I could have for wanting this flip first?

[Dwlee99]

If VFP is mafia and we eliminate, Rae checks in {Dwlee, Nero, Sigmund} and if no roleblocker the game is solved?

[Dwlee99]

If VFP is mafia and we eliminate, Rae checks in {Dwlee, Nero, Sigmund} and if no roleblocker the game is solved?

explain why rae doesn't get nightkilled in this situation

Rae could just be night killed in the situation where we know we are eliminating VFP after a no elimination anyway. Then scum get to kill Rae and a mason.

[Dwlee99]

I'm set on throwing VFP out of their aquarium regardless of the night kill

[Dwlee99]

Rae could just be night killed in the situation where we know we are eliminating VFP after a no elimination anyway. Then scum get to kill Rae and a mason.

right but then we know for sure that vfp is mafia

like town doesn't win by any more by keeping an extra town alive, i don't understand

Er right it is still down to one of three. I would like having a confirmed town in the game personally but I see your point now.

[Dwlee99]

Also VFP is literally scumclaiming the past couple of pages.

[Dwlee99]

I'm more down for that ^ than a no elimination ftr.

[Dwlee99]

Ugh forgot that up carrot doesn't work when I get a pedit. That's at T3

[Dwlee99]

So we aren't no eliminating, right? I'm allowed to vote VFP?

[Dwlee99]

VOTE: VFP
Rae, check in the three of me Sigmund and nero

[Dwlee99]

I really just thought VFP scum-claimed there. I played this game terribly though so oh well.

[Dwlee99]

can't believe sigmund got away with two lolhammers plus trying to bait one on me in rvs plus declaring himself basically confirmed town today

just gotta be in awe really

I was thinking we could kill sigmund and then there was the fake guilty. If we had massclaimed a day early then maybe we avoid it but then we also have to sort your slot the next day.

[Dwlee99]

I messaged the mods at around 9am but thread didn't get unlocked until 11 which is when the quickhammer instantly came out. I was disappointed because I wanted to at least know mini's n1 target, and was leaning towards believing it.

[Dwlee99]

Oh yea for sure not my fault mhm yep

[Dwlee99]

VFP I think you should have made the arguments if you felt like no one was noticing the points. It's better you say it than no one at all, and towards the end I really just got the impression you were flailing/trying to throw the thread into disarray with all your "I could be town... Or scum" it just felt really awkward.