Mini 684: Quacks and Masons Mafia- Game Over

[Light-kun]

/quackor the fowl, confirms.

[Light-kun]

FOS: Netlava

for thinking "Hi" is a scum tell. It is actually the "hey dude" that is scummy.

Vote: roflcopter

[Light-kun]

I am not voting anyone, and I don't count! Yay!

In my opinion, I think that the quacks are the only problem. The odd doctor minority is a really interesting game plan, but even if no one *cept mafia's nk* dies, it means that either the quacks just so happened to choose to not protect OR that the quacks chose mafia members to protect.

I don't think there is going to be a strategy that will effectively work except for the makings of one that Netlava has outlined. If we were to discover the quacks, then town would be at the advantage. This is obvious. What isn't obvious is the best way to achieve this.

Given the powers of the town, and the plausible hinderence, we can assume that we have masons, doctors, quacks, and mafia. Keeping mafia roles irrelevant, of course.

So: counting all docs/quacks as townies is stated to give mafia an advantage. I must say that this would give mafia an advantage, but more importantly, we should at least attempt to make use of the multiple doctor's protection abilities.

Following up, we could assume everyone in the town is a doctor, and assign doctor pairs a person to protect. This information could be useful for any pair of doctor's who happen to protect the same person, and that person dies, which would indicate one of two is a quack. Having even one doctor confirmed and a bunch of masons would be great. However, this plan also has some obvious flaws.

Another idea could consist of just having the doctor/quacks act on their own accord. This, however, has a chance of being very beneficial or left wide open on a bad choice for quack's night.

So far, none of these solutions address a method of "How do we isolate the quacks?"

Quite frankly, there isn't an easy way to do that. Say that person X is a doctor who claims. Well, we could have that person protect person Y, but if Mafia had a role blocker, then mafia could kill person Y, and we would speculate that X is still unknown and that the mafia has a role blocker to stop X. But, then, the doctor in question COULD BE a member of the mafia. Thus, controlling individual doctors is out.

The final verdict of this long, and over analytical thought process is that we are left with two choices:
1. Have all doctors/quacks on one accord that the town decides upon. The main weakness though is that mafia gains a slight advantage not just in power role standings but also gives the mafia a voice in how the Doctors/quacks act, which would let them further manipulate town strategy.
OR
2. Have all doctors/quacks act on their own whim, hoping that luck and good decisions are made to best ensure town victory. However, this can be based on chance rather than skill, and while I don't particularly *love* this plan, I will vote in favor of it just because I don't like option one as much.

The other plan is proven to be failure, and having the masons claim on d1 is both chimerical and ineffective. So, nyet to that I say.

As for Netlave: Even though your plan is fail, I have to wonder why you would think quacks should be lynched. It would be both safer and smarter to convert them...

(Having written this, it occurred to me that the masons may not be recruiting, so I will check that after posting. If no EBWOP, then obviously I think they are recruiting, or it is not stated in the beginning.)

[Light-kun]

Then, we could test people with the doctor pairs thing...

Okay then, that makes sense, but I am not sure if we should isolate doctors as mentioned in my X-Y example. So, I am going to wait on other responses.

[Light-kun]

It is safe to conclude that our options have been reduced to either letting the docs/quacks act as a town until one/both quacks die
OR
Let the docs/quacks act on their own accord.

I think that former move is better for the time being, and if we were to, say, "Vote" on which action to take, then that is my vote.

Nothing else to note yet.

[Light-kun]

Clammy is on my scumdar, just not sure yet how big of a blip he is... *Hm...* Still, I have a few people to look at first so I am going to minor FOS him for weird play. BTW, aside from the fact that Pac's plan fails for making Docs to have unparalleled power, it was actually really good. I discounted it because in my experience and research on this game, I have NEVER seen a Doc that could self protect....

Vote: Riceballtail

Obvscum

Btw, I simmed through my idea and it doesn't work the way I intend to (by the time the quacks are outed, the scum would have won).

Another possibility is that everyone agrees to target the scummiest player each night and if he doesn't die then we lynch. But this is probably more akin to a less effective vig. Perhaps it could loosely keep track of how many quacks are remaining.

I have absolutely NO idea why Net is voting Rice in this post, but this concept is actually pretty strong and fairly pro-town, except, if the scummiest players were both town aligned (outside of mason, in which case, I think the masons should claim if they can confirm each other), then this plan would backfire. Still, it makes the most sense outside of everyone leaving the doctors to do whatever they want.

Again, I like Net's plan, for the moment: town list. There was someone else I am putting on my probably town list, forgot who. I will look that up on my next post, but I want to rest...so, later.

[Light-kun]

I think that Spring is probably town. It is just the feel I am getting from his/her reasoning on this page. (I think it was post 104.)

Same with netlava. I am getting a slightly town vibe. Still, as has been the target of discussion, Clammy's refusal to the main point of his plan bothers me. If the plan has been, by its creator, doomed to fail, then i see no reason to not explain what the idea was. It has two potential benefits to town:

1. It lets the town decide if the plan is conceivably made by a protown or anti town player.

2. The plan could be potentially modified if there is any merit to it at all. OR it could give the town an idea for a plan later.

The obviously more important of these 2 results is the fomer. It is pretty conclusive that everyone speaking of this would probably agree that it is strange, and to a certain degree, not helping town, BUT knowing the full thought process could prevent us from mislynching a townie.

So: all being said, I think that Clammy should explain his plan since that is best for town. And if he is still refusing to do that, I really want a reason on why he thinks it needs to be secret (IF he thinks that).

[Light-kun]

Hm, I suppose that plan would work, and I agreed with it before and have no reason to disagree now.

Vote: Clammy

His response didn't give me a town feel... So, yeah, obvious vote choice. But, before day ends, I think that every player should post something in their next post confirming that if they are a doctor that they will target SL. That is best, unless someone has an objection.

So, to be formal:

If I am a doctor, I am targeting Spring Lullaby tonight.

That is best as to prevent confusion, non?

[Light-kun]

@ Sun- no, he gave an answer, which is basically: "I'm not answering the why to my plan on the off chance it can be used tomorrow (in the future.)" So, I cannot expect him to verify without the maximum amount of pressure exerted on him, and to clarify in case this sounds otherwise: My vote is "for real"and is not just a "pressure vote," but it does have that as a secondary effect.

@Spring: I am not blood thirsty, but I do think finding a use for the doctors is far better then letting them be townies, at least, for the first night. Worst case, assuming the masons are intelligent enough to prevent us from killing two of them in this manner, we lose three townies (mislynch+scum kill+quack kill), which should not put town in the worst scenario assuming we have masons. (Which we should have a minimum of two. If we are about to kill two via this play, aside from scum kill which is unknown to us, they should come out.) PLUS, for night 2, we can always revert back to townie=doc plan. Um... yeah, I don't see any major downsides... aside from one, but that is fairly unlikely in my opinion. If anyone disagree with me/datte on the plan laid out, then please say so. High risk situations should be avoided, and before night fall, I really, really believe that any flaws should be pointed out. I am maintaining my vote but ANY LYNCHING VOTE UNTIL EVERYONE HAS SPOKEN WILL RECEIVE THE BIGGEST MEANINGLESS FINGER OF SUSPICION I CAN GENERATE USING LETTERS AND SYMBOLS!!!!

[Light-kun]

We should wait for the replacement to catch up.

Netlava: Read more closely because you skipped over the whole targetting SL tonight, and if you have a problem, voice your opinions before it is too late. As for the doctor's, this plan is meaningless unless all target SL, as there is then a chance that the two who don't target anyone are quacks, resulting in a town lynch which would utterly wreck town, imo.

[Light-kun]

You are correct. If 3 townies died (one is a guarantee, and 3 if scum are great/we (I?) suck), we would still have 1 more spare townie. (which would make it 4 v 3, thus day 3=lylo) but if we are lucky in that lylo situation, the odds of us lynching townie should go down remarkably.

Anyway, nothing important has happened (for me) going either way. And, um, waiting for Sun and some other person. (Think someone else mentioned that.)

Anyway, that's all for now.