Mini Normal 2238 | Game Over

[Dragon of the West]

I'm gonna try to find someone to trust as town for D1

Ah yes...I've never gotten pocketed doing this before...
VOTE: Titus

[Dragon of the West]

I'm gonna try to find someone to trust as town for D1

Ah yes...I've never gotten pocketed doing this before...
VOTE: Titus

Sarcastic comment implying suspicion followed by voting a different person for no stated reason.

/distrust

VOTE: DotW

Dragon wasn't implying suspicion of anyone but rather deterring Gamma from blocking.

Enjoy my first TR though. Right for wrong reasons works.

Yeah I was just making a joke about you pocketing me and DGB in 233 pretty much from day 1

[Dragon of the West]

Okay so I just finished reading through everything...I'm coming to the conclusion that D1s really frustrate me. Quick reads:

A50 - null; not enough content to read. Anyone familiar with A50's town vs scum play? I only played one game with them where they were scum and just seemed disengaged most of the time, similar to here so far.
Andre - townlean; not much content but what was there, I liked for town. reminds me of 233
CSF - mostly null; tone has seemed fine
DGB - townlean; I'm a little confused about how the whole hood thing played out but the way DGB came clean about the 'gambit' and explained the hood interactions in detail struck me as town-ish. Although, I disagree that claimed masons get targeted by scum for NK. the games I've seen so far the claimed masons/neighbors/mason-lites just get kept alive as weak PRs that people get paranoid about
Gamma - null to townlean; this seems like inquisitive town!Gamma for the most part. Seems to be a little more in the driver's seat here from other games I've played with them, but idk if that's AI
House - not sure what to make of this slot. maybe scumlean? some posts seem like they're acting from an informed position or agenda-y, but other ones also strike me as engaged and hunting. not sure if that's just busy-work, though
Kerset - null, no content
MathBlade - scumlean; I think if one of DGB or MathBlade is scum, it's this slot. Paranoia about getting investigated, "botching" the crumb/claim and then using that to cast suspicion on DGB seemed off and kinda scummy. I think they backtracked their DGB read when they realized it might get them killed either before DGB or right after
Nero - honestly, Nero is a mystery to me. Every game he seems to have a tinfoil paranoia hat on that makes no sense to me and sounds like he's just slinging conspiracy theories around and I get paranoid he's scum and then he ends up being town and his theories end up being right. I don't think I'll be on board for a D1 Nero lim
Kyo - null to townlean; thought process and questions seem like town!Kyo
Titus - townlean; much more engaged and aggressive early compared to what I saw in 233 where they were scum. They said they play very different game to game so again not sure if AI but tone strikes me as town
Wake - null, no content

VOTE: MathBlade
Hopefully I'll have more time to be around for discussion tomorrow

[Dragon of the West]

So the only slot we're in any major disagreement on is MathBlade, but I'm scum?

Just a D1 scumlean. And my D1 read rate is terrible so I'm not going to say someone isn't scum just because they have similar reads to me

[Dragon of the West]

Ooh hey it’s an actual reason! Something quantifiable!

VOTE: Unvote

This seems like a weird reason to drop the tunnel

[Dragon of the West]

dragon you get where I'm coming from on nero, right?

Ehhhhhh kind of. I'm not dismissing your experience with scum!Nero because you probably have more than me, but, if anything, in 3d20 the tone he used that tipped me off was how he was almost...nice/agreeable at times? I haven't experienced, or at least noticed, the sassy vs salty difference you mentioned earlier. BUT, I do wholeheartedly relate to the Nero paranoia. I haven't had a game with him yet where I thought "Oh yeah Nero is totally town and I'm comfortable assuming that"

[Dragon of the West]

So the only slot we're in any major disagreement on is MathBlade, but I'm scum?

Just a D1 scumlean. And my D1 read rate is terrible so I'm not going to say someone isn't scum just because they have similar reads to me

I both do and don't see a problem with your mindset
it's fair to maybe suspect intentional scum mirroring but in cases where that's not suspected it doesn't make sense to SR someone with similar reads because they're probably having a similar perspective while sorting

I just disagree on thinking someone with similar reads MUST be looking at the game a similar way. Like, there's a few inactive slots I don't have opinions on yet and House disagrees on my biggest scumread. I don't see how that's so similar he must be thinking from my town!perspective

[Dragon of the West]

go fuck yourself nero. I'm DONE with you.

feels kinda fake.

Pretty sure it's real. I think they've had a lot of IRL stuff going on and are legit upset; they almost replaced out of 3d20 before that last day phase

[Dragon of the West]

go fuck yourself nero. I'm DONE with you.

feels kinda fake.

Pretty sure it's real. I think they've had a lot of IRL stuff going on and are legit upset; they almost replaced out of 3d20 before that last day phase

Don’t talk active games (if this is active)

Nah it just ended today

[Dragon of the West]

Haven't had a chance to read since yesterday. It's too late to start this now so I'll catch up in the morning

[Dragon of the West]

here's House and Gamma attacking me over voting the wrong hoodie and I think that's a thing scum do. "Like oh you aren't voting my buddy, you are so scummy." So I'm leaning DGB is the scum in the hood.

If I am wrong and the hood is t v s, then DGB is the scum. I don't see Math scum there.

I don't see the case for DGB being scum in the hood here. Per their explanations, Math crumbed the hood and almost claimed, DGB suggested mason claiming. I really don't think DGB does that as scum because Math would remain suspicious of DGB and could out it if they got overly suspicious which could make DGB look bad. Plus after her loyal neighborizer fiasco with LQ in 234, I doubt scum!DGB thinks to themselves "I'm going to put myself at risk trying to manipulate my neighbor for minimal gain"

[Dragon of the West]

If I die then DGB scum equity might go up. Depends on a few things.

I feel like saying this only creates WIFOM. Are the "few things" explainable or are they specific to what's in the PT?

[Dragon of the West]

Far too many nulls and efforts to avoid calling people scum.

Nullscum here.

This makes me think Titus is town. I think as scum she'd see how unsure I am and make me a target to pocket/manipulate. I guess she could just be doing the reverse of her play in 233 to throw me off but more than likely this is just town

[Dragon of the West]

Bolding mine

When a wagon stalls it’s because scum can’t or don’t want it to go through if it’s a miselim.
If it’s a proper elim it’s because town couldn’t or didn’t want it.

Those are the reasons.

It’s the same reasons in the Flubber game the two wagons stalled constantly. I was alone. Umlaut was AFK as was Prism slot. We couldn’t hammer either way.

Nero didn’t take off because scum didn’t want it to if he’s town. Same with Gamma if he’s town.
Either that or completely incapable.

Due to the lack of naked sheeps going with don’t want them elimmed. Which means combined with a townread of Nero

means Nero is town or deep wolf. Same with Gamma slot.

I'm really struggling with the bolded sections. When a wagon stalls it's either because they're scum or because they're town that scum doesn't want eliminated....what about wagons started by scum? They can only pile on so much.

Also, this townread of Nero comes out of nowhere. Is it because of the lack of naked sheep votes? Or did you start TRing him earlier?

[Dragon of the West]

Btw as a heads up, I really don't do pedits or read the most recent stuff while catching up which drives some people crazy. I'll respond to the recent posts when I finish catching up

[Dragon of the West]

dragon you get where I'm coming from on nero, right?

Ehhhhhh kind of. I'm not dismissing your experience with scum!Nero because you probably have more than me, but, if anything, in 3d20 the tone he used that tipped me off was how he was almost...nice/agreeable at times? I haven't experienced, or at least noticed, the sassy vs salty difference you mentioned earlier. BUT, I do wholeheartedly relate to the Nero paranoia. I haven't had a game with him yet where I thought "Oh yeah Nero is totally town and I'm comfortable assuming that"

Did that fencepost hurt?

This was me disagreeing with Gamma as nicely as possible because I could tell they were really upset about people dismissing their opinions and I don't have the heart to just shoot someone down that I know isn't in the best place emotionally

[Dragon of the West]

If we have a Kyo Titus scumteam then they have to kill me and you as major threats.

Is this because of familiarity? Because you've said multiple times you struggle as town

[Dragon of the West]

Yes. I have moon logic reasons to doubt your neighborhood is real. It's not the first time I have seen a faked hood. Town claimed a masonry and then a hood with scum. Scum went along.

This would really only be relevant if DGB flipped non-neighbor, no? Would you feel that way if DGB flipped red but was a neighbor?

[Dragon of the West]

I mean, in fairness I just think Gamma is scum and guy is throwing a hissy fit and is rage quitting :/

Gamma did ragequit but I don't think it was because he was scum. If anything, scum are more likely to stay and lurk or fight.

I agree with this. I think Gamma rage quitting is town!indicative. If Gamma was scum I actually don't think they'd get upset with you disagreeing with or scumreading them at all

[Dragon of the West]

… I mean like a PT cop or TA can check me lol.

I don't believe the hood is fake because I think DGB seems genuine about it and wouldn't make up a fake hood as scum, but if you're scum you still have a PT sooo

[Dragon of the West]

Math, I didn't out you. I voted you then you said you weren't going to be eliminated b/c u were a pr.

This is how I see it and I also have a townlean on Nero here. I think seeing him flip scum in 3d20 finally gives me at least a glimpse of his town v scum play and this seems like town!Nero

[Dragon of the West]

Who do you scumread?

Good question.

I'm tired of trying to humor Radioactive Man.

VOTE: Kerset

Could also vote DotW.

Tbh it just sounds like you're echoing Titus because you don't like that I have a scumlean on you

[Dragon of the West]

I guess it's time for me to cast a serious vote. A very serious one. One that has crossed the boundaries of seriousness that have ever been set.

Let's first define the pool (or as Math would put it.. "the range"): ssbm_Kyouko/Dragon of the West/Andresvmb/Kerset/Ythan/Wake88/DrippingGoofball/MathBlade/House

Now let's use this mathematically proven to work for finding a suitable vote target:

ssbm_Kyouko (Hickory)
Dragon of the West (dickory)
Andresvmb (dock)
Kerset (The mouse)
Ythan (went up)
Wake88 (the clock)
DrippingGoofball (The clock)
MathBlade (struck one)
House (The mouse)
ssbm_Kyouko (went down)
Dragon of the West (Hickory)
Andresvmb (dickory)
Kerset (dock)

VOTE: Kerset

Guys, I caught SCUM!

This post pings me. Reads similarly to how A50 acted in 235 where the whole time he was super jovial and unhelpful. I don't know if that's A50's schtick but it seems scum indicative to me

[Dragon of the West]

Blatantly getting chainsawed by Titus rn

Isn't she voting DotW?

Yeah, the mud isn't sticking so she moved. She starts subtly by TRing players that oppose the wagon I'm pushing, and gradually builds posts that discredit me, and also posts naked shade. Quotes below:

Spoiler:

Vote Count 1.05

Nero Cain (4)

- MathBlade, DrippingGoofball, House, Gamma Emerald

Gamma Emerald (3)

- Andresvmb, ssbm_Kyouko, Nero Cain

ssbm_Kyouko (1)

- Almost50

Cat Scatch Fever (1)

- Titus

Titus (1)

- Dragon of the West

Kerset (1)

- Cat Scratch Fever

Not voting (2)

: Wake88, Kerset

It takes

7

votes to eliminate.

Mod Notes:

Titus is V/LA today. Gamma Emerald is V/LA through the 24th of September.

Deadline

: (expired on 2021-09-23 17:06:41)

Gamma wagon reeks.

Another reason House is town btw

Vote Count 1.01

ssbm_Kyouko (3)

- Gamma Emerald, Cat Scratch Fever, DrippingGoofball

Titus (1)

- Dragon of the West

Kerset (1)

- ssbm_Kyouko

Nero Cain (1)

- MathBlade

Mathblade (1)

- Nero Cain

Cat Scatching Fever (1)

- Titus

DrippingGoofball (1)

- House

Not voting (4)

: Wake88, Kerset, Andresvmb, Almost50

Deadline

: (expired on 2021-09-23 17:06:41)

VOTE: ssbm_Kyouko

Just an opportunistic vote on the largest wagon. I don't even know why anyone is voting anyone else.

Like A50 as town.

y Titus? b/c she's kinda active lurking?

If you're asking why, it helps not to give an out to sheep.

y Titus? b/c she's kinda active lurking?

If you're asking why, it helps not to give an out to sheep.

Self-conscious much? You're not exactly a popular scumread I don't think. Who am I sheeping?

You didn't answer Nero's question. You could just copy his suggestion was my point.

VOTE: Nero
The amount of time it took him to vote DGB is unreal, it’s clear his initial push against the neighborhood was sowing seeds of paranoia.

VOTE: Gamma

Don't care for the opportunism of this vote.

With leading questions in the hood, like the leading questions scum!you asked me about town!titus in our last game. I was specifically curious if there was anything like that in the PT, but didnt want to lead DGB there myself in case it is scum, and I don't think from its explanation that it is very likely that you led it there.

But yes, I am paranoid about you having manipulated DGB inside the hood specifically because of our last game.

Interesting. I am flagging this for later.

It's odd because it supposes DGB is lead astray with leading questions when its more fooled by reinforcement.

I'm voting DGB and then when/if DGB flips scum I'm going to target Gamma and House

This has wacky phrasing and warped perspective, plus it feels a bit performative when the pressure is probably more on Nero than DGB rn

yeah this is actually the second post in my catchup that I've seen from Nero that is missing a word. Sign of editing and rewording posts, but not proofreading them after edits. Like when you change the verb tense so that all of your sentences match but forget to change another word somewhere so it

doesn't looks right

(edited from

looks wrong

). <-- An example of what I'm describing

Is this a response to something?

Like this. I basically ignored the semantic stuff too.

Bumping Titus out of POE-tier into scumread-tier with Ythan. Hadn't realized how out of hand she'd gotten until I went back through her ISO to address this

VOTE: Titus

I disagree with the conclusion of scum!Titus but I think this is town!Kyo thought process

[Dragon of the West]

OK.. DotW is probably Town according to my sophisticated (and most intelligent) scum hunting method. I am working on a full analysis of the game and will be publishing me findings along with the detailed method shortly. My aim is to offer you a full solve of a 3-person Mafia team

This just doesn't feel real. I had like 10 posts when he said this, there's no way he had a meaningful read on me yet to say this aside from trying to pocket me.

I really think this is scum!A50

[Dragon of the West]

I just want to end this day regardless of who the lim land on, myself.

Even me

.

This is scum acting indifferent to seem town. It's a plainly anti-town attitude to have. Gamma did the same thing as scum in 3d20

[Dragon of the West]

Gamma and CSF aren't scum together.

I agree with this because I think the Gamma/Ythan slot is town but why do you think they specifically couldn't be scum together?

[Dragon of the West]

Wake88
Andresvmb
Kerset
Almost50
Dragon of the West

If scum!House, I think it's likely they put at least one buddy this low in their list. FMPOV that leaves:
Wake - inactive prior to this post
Andres - I don't think it's this slot. I like their intro for town
Kerset - Not enough activity for me to have a strong gauge without me having prior experience with them
A50 - I definitely scumread this slot

[Dragon of the West]

Why, DGB?

A pattern of opportunism, questions without follow through, and 0-calorie posts to pad the post count and simulate presence.

You think so?

I found her posts to be rather fattening. I've put on 5 pounds since she started participating.

Example? This just feels like you defending a slot you know is town

[Dragon of the West]

VOTE: DotW

Distancing

Again, nothing of substance here

[Dragon of the West]

Good luck figuring that out. I play different and wild all the time.

In general that makes it more difficult to Scumread you, but also Townread you.

Not a huge fan of Wakes's entrance. Like this is just saying something to say nothing

[Dragon of the West]

Spoiler:

Yeah it was aimless shade but it’s very early.

Now why would you say that, Gamma?

I don't like the idea of shade being "aimless." Last I checked throwing shade for no reason sure as Hell doesn't read Town to me. It being early doesn't matter much at all.

Do me a solid... read my last 50 posts and give me a quick and dirty opinion of my slot.

I won't hold you to it after a thorough read. It's more for other reasons.

You're not trying to rush me, are you?

You had better hope you aren't.

I'll be combing my way through at my own pace. What's the point of rushing? We've got time.

Yeah it was aimless shade but it’s very early.

Now why would you say that, Gamma?

I don't like the idea of shade being "aimless." Last I checked throwing shade for no reason sure as Hell doesn't read Town to me. It being early doesn't matter much at all.

Do me a solid... read my last 50 posts and give me a quick and dirty opinion of my slot.

I won't hold you to it after a thorough read. It's more for other reasons.

You're not trying to rush me, are you?

You had better hope you aren't.

I'll be combing my way through at my own pace. What's the point of rushing? We've got time.

Obviously not, as I already told you that I wouldn't hold that opinion against you after a thorough read.

Why are you so paranoid about a simple request?

And these feel like scum theater to help Wake ease into a game he missed the first thousand posts of

[Dragon of the West]

Same with 1046 and 1047

[Dragon of the West]

I really really want to policy you but it’s antitown to do so.

Noting this since I think I have an open question to Math about a read switch on Nero

[Dragon of the West]

Personally, I don't care for it.

If he had had the common decency to read the posts i asked him to, he wouldn't have responded in the tone he's taken with me if he was town.

Instead, he decided to agitate my already unstable state in what feels like an effort to cause another fight.

I'm done with him & the game tonight.

Don't forget to take your bow for completing a wonderful, theatrical performance!

[Dragon of the West]

On page 9.

Two things:

1) I can't read Titus.

2) Mathblade, could you stop being coy?

You guys have each other in your signatures, aren't you friends? Weird energy in here tonight.

Why even post if you're not gonna say anything?

Wake has said nothing of substance up until this point. He's literally just "argued" with House for a few pages and then made random statements that don't have any really bearing on the game

[Dragon of the West]

Spoiler:

I think wake's response to House asking for a read on the last 50 posts of House's is faked.

Seems a little "get off my back" rather than an actual feeling Wake had.

Why do feel different than the other mini normal?

I dont understand the question

You have a different “vibe” than in the mini normal with you and Roden. Why?

It's hard to explain and unrelated to the game.

I guess the easiest way to say is I dont really have a personality of my own. I blend. So in different company you'll see a different me.

Not really matching my experience with you.

Gonna keep my eye on you and see how you post

Bolded what I'm referring to. Isn't her saying her personality changes the entire point here?

[Dragon of the West]

I couldn't get spoilers to work for some reason but A50's 1189 - 1193 again are just posts making jokes with nothing else

[Dragon of the West]

Spoiler:

Damn you know what? DGB and Math is reminding me of large 233 where I was scum without a foot in the game. I could only get in by spewing out that wild thought process I had (which was a real thought process, it looked town, but was scum-motivated) with regards to why I decided to go along with Anya's fake masonry/neighbor claim.

I feel like Math is kinda flailing as town here and DGB has used that to contribute in a way that looks townie, but really, DGB's account of its plan, while sounding townie because it is genuine, is actually quite transparently pro-scum if DGB is a scum neighbor with Math. The scumteam just shoots Math eventually when discussion dies.

Like Titus and I did to Anya in 233. At least I think we shot her, maybe she got mislimmed.

Quite a few players are here from 233 as well - Nero, Dragon, Titus, Andres, DGB (I think maybe the idea for this comes from my play in 233 but maybe that's just my ego)

I kinda feel like if you take out the talk about the hood that DGBs ISO is kinda shit and I feel like I'm seeing things in a new light now.

VOTE: DGB

I think the difference here for me is Anya was just trolling in that game and you were rolling with it until you outed that the hood wasn't real. Here I don't think it benefits DGB to just out it and I don't think scum!DGB shooting town!Math would make DGB look good

[Dragon of the West]

How does DGB's claim about the hood compare to my claim of being in Anya's hood in 233 for you? Do you feel similarities at all?

Personally, I don't see the similarities. I think frustrated DGB outing the hood here reminds me more of 235 where DGB was a loyal town neighborizer and got in spats with LQ, who they neighborized

[Dragon of the West]

On a separate note: this wall-of-text posting, overthinking Kyo seems like town!Kyo to me

[Dragon of the West]

But who says a traitor exists at all?

Nero is the one that can't stop bringing it up.

Pretty sure this is a blatant misrep. Up until this point Nero's only mention of a traitor was when discussing a S/S hood...pretty much always in response to you

[Dragon of the West]

Specific to the PT. It will be clear later.

If scum kill me (or someone manage to elim me) my reasons for scumreads etc become pretty clear.

I find it odd you’re pushing me when it’s pretty obvious that 1) Not scum 2) Hood is TvT or DGB is the scum 3) Majority of people TR me.

You’re not adequately putting forward a case as to how I am scum or why mostly just sheeping Nero’s paranoia it feels like.

If you feel I am scum bring it on.

My concern is if it's solely in the PT and you flip green, I'm not going to know what it actually was that made you think DGB is scum. And if I don't know what that is, it's really hard to weigh it.

I don't think 1 or 2 are obvious at all and 3 shouldn't mean anything for my reads, especially if you're as good at scum as you claim to be. The only thing tangential to 3 that makes me think you might be town is that I'm townreading Titus who seems to have a lot of experience with your play and she's insisting you're town.

In general, I think your reads have been oddly inconsistent and your fear/paranoia of seeming suspicious doesn't sit right with me. Your interactions and reads bothering me most are your ones in regards to Titus. Sometimes you're talking to her like you know she's town, friendly, going along with her and other times you're shading her, acting like you're sure she's scum, much more aggressive. Those interactions feel like you're struggling to keep up a front. I have liked some of your posts though and I don't think you make as much sense with my other scumreads; but the odds off all of my reads being right is next to zero so I don't weigh "teams" too heavily D1

Now that I'm (almost) caught up, I think you're 4th on my list of potential scum.
Most scum
House
A50, Wake
Math
Least scum

[Dragon of the West]

what about wagons started by scum? They can only pile on so much << This goes in the can’t category.
It’s more like a Nero is too forced thing. I feel that’s where I am supposed to be manipulated to push rather than it being a natural wagon. I don’t know when that feeling started exactly but it was enhanced by something DGB said to me in the PT.

So is your switch to a townread of Nero solely based on being worried about being manipulated to push Nero more than it is about your read of Nero's play? That seems like a shaky basis for a read unless you feel like the manipulation was super obvious

[Dragon of the West]

… I mean like a PT cop or TA can check me lol.

I don't believe the hood is fake because I think DGB seems genuine about it and wouldn't make up a fake hood as scum, but if you're scum you still have a PT sooo

Fypov it’s possible I am scum with a hood yes. Not sure what your point is here. The bigger thing is when I die I flip neighbor or when DGB dies it flips neighbor.

I don’t expect both of us to make it to mid/late game so the issue resolved itself.

Ultimately my point was that having a PT cop check you doesn't really clear you in the sense that you could still just be scum. And your way to prove the hood wasn't fake was "have a PT cop check me!" which, again, doesn't clear you or confirm your hood

[Dragon of the West]

A50 - I definitely scumread this slot

Of course you do. Now where is your vote???

Dragon calls House Scum, and is looking for a partner on House's readlist, but his vote is stuck on Mathblade (who isn't even in House's bottom 5). Solid case, bro.

I don't move my vote on catch ups like this where I have to read through dozens of pages until I'm totally caught up...which I'm still not completely

[Dragon of the West]

VOTE: DotW

Distancing

Again, nothing of substance here

Distancing means that you are both scum

I know what distancing means. I'm saying he's not really making a point or sharing his actual case/thoughts on me. Just voting and making a joke about him "distancing"

[Dragon of the West]

Slight mischaracterization/misrep/mis explanation on my part.

I feel pushed to policy elim him so he is probably town.
DoTW is correct I do not townread his play but between DGB and House it feels icky about the policy elim of Nero.

So it’s more a “icky” feeling.

This is weird because you don't seem to actually scumread DGB or House but for the push on him to be in bad faith you're implying they're scum

[Dragon of the West]

And with that, I'm caught up.
VOTE: House

[Dragon of the West]

So now Math and DGB have both said they felt manipulated into SRing Nero by the other.

Hmmmm no

Paraphrasing...

Post #9

in the PT, Math asks me what I think of Nero. Math brought it up Monday around 6PM my time.
At this time THE GAME IS ON

PAGE 3.

To situate: viewtopic.php?p=12993559#p12993559

In the next post, I answer that I find Nero hard to read so I want to give it more time.

Post #11

, Math suggests we should talk more about Nero, and asks what I like, and dislike about Nero's posting. Says that I should try reading Nero even if it's hard. This post comes about 15 minutes after post #9 above.

I answer that it's way too early, and say something about Nero being a chaotic player and I need time to evaluate the type of chaos.

Math then says that Nero's outing of Math's "crumb" was anti-town.

=======================

You be the judge.

I don't know if this is

manipulating

, but it definitely sounds agenda-driven

[Dragon of the West]

I say that eliminating Nero is in fact good for the town.

Math replies that it's not good for the town if we have to bulldoze over the alpha players to do this.

And then Math starts townreading Nero in the game thread.

This sequence is just so off to me if that's how it truly played out. How would one "bulldoze" the alpha players? Convince them that either Nero is scum or to policy lim? It sounds like Math is focused on kowtowing more than actually solving

[Dragon of the West]

Is it pretty clear to most players that Math doesn't townread me in the least?

If you are around, please state whether you agree or disagree with the above statement.

I feel like it's less that he reads you one way or another and more that he talks out of both sides of his mouth about your slot

[Dragon of the West]

I couldn't get spoilers to work for some reason but A50's 1189 - 1193 again are just posts making jokes with nothing else

What do you make of Wake starting a CW to your wagon on A50?

Well based on my reads, scum is probably already on my wagon and he might be trying to avoid piling on to the same wagon with his buddies too much. I'd hardly call the vote on A50 creating a "counter wagon" with how little oomph he put behind his vote

[Dragon of the West]

But who says a traitor exists at all?

Nero is the one that can't stop bringing it up.

Pretty sure this is a blatant misrep. Up until this point Nero's only mention of a traitor was when discussing a S/S hood...pretty much always in response to you

And he's the one that introduced the idea.

And he's the one that mentioned it the second time.

It's pretty desperate to try to shade objectively true statements.

My issue with what you said wasn't the fact: "Nero has mentioned traitors". It's that you phrased it that he "can't stop bringing them up" to throw shade in the first place. It's pretty obvious that he's noting it as a caveat and I think you look scummy trying to paint him in a bad light for it

[Dragon of the West]

Can I interest anyone in a Wake wagon?

I'd be willing to compromise there if it comes down to it. I'd prefer he at least finish his catch up first

[Dragon of the West]

So why are people still going for dragon? No revisions are being done after wallposts? I don't see good faith in math and house.

Wall posts can only trigger anger in me. I don't know what you see that is supposed to make me think "Oh! This is Town indeed."

You haven't really shared why you think "Oh! This is not town"
Frankly, the only thing I've seen people say is they didn't like my quick reads list I wrote earlier this week before I could dedicate enough time to this game. That and "Read his ISO" when I had like 10 posts

[Dragon of the West]

Bulldozing is my way of saying
“We’re doing this elim” over and over and over
And shutting off discussion elsewhere.

It’s like tunneling but more so.

Okay this at least makes sense. The "universal solve" part of your post loses me because I think the fact of the matter is I don't know who is town and who is scum until they flip so I'm not going to be sure who I need to be agreeing with in this "universal solve"

[Dragon of the West]

VOTE: Almost50

Just consolidating with a few days left

Would love if dragon and Nero would come this way as I prefer House's wagon comp but am not a fan of a House elimination. I think he's town, would rather eliminate someone I'm not TRing, preferably Titus, but I dont think that's happening.

If we can't get a House wagon through I'd be willing to switch to A50 with you closer to deadline. But for right now I'd rather see if we can get the votes on House.
I'm not interested in limming Titus though

[Dragon of the West]

It looks an awful lot like you are just fluffing the thread up.

House has a whole lot of time to talk shit for someone too busy on VLA to read the game

[Dragon of the West]

Nope. No revisions.

I'm on VLA and scrolling wallposts.

I'm talking about this. I'm interpreting "scrolling wallposts" as "scrolling past wallposts without reading them".
I'm not saying I'm expecting in-depth analysis while you're VLA, I'm saying you could at least read the posts of the game if you've got time to shitpost back and forth

[Dragon of the West]

then your argument I would argue seems in bad faith and irrelevant

90% of arguments I've seen House make this game

[Dragon of the West]

Vote Count 1.33

Wake88 (4)

- Titus, Almost50, ssbm_Kyouko, DrippingGoofball

House (3)

- Dragon of the West, MathBlade, Nero Cain

MathBlade (2)

- Ythan, Kerset

Andresvmb (1)

- Wake88

Nero Cain (1)

- Andresvmb

Catch Scratch Fever (1)

- House

Not voting (1)

: Cat Scratch Fever

It takes

7

votes to eliminate.

Mod Notes:

Deadline

: (expired on 2021-09-23 17:06:41)

Did you guys really just make 20 pages in a day and wind up at the same fucking place

[Dragon of the West]

If people are willing to lim House, I'm still willing to go there

Wake is probably my 2nd preference - he still hasn't really produced much of substance despite using a lot of words and I've been happier with A50's more recent posting (more analytical than I remember him in 235, although it only came after meaningful push on his slot so I'm wary)

I'm confused how Math's claim is milleresque at all to be honest...the crumbs are clear, but I think they could come from scum!JK that fakeclaims simple to seem more town? I think there's no way Math v House is SvS though so if one flips red I think that pretty much clears the other

Tbh I expected a more active Titus after her VLA and I'm starting to get paranoid about my townread there, but I still think she's more than likely town. I've made that mistake before though

VOTE: Wake

[Dragon of the West]

You admittedly didn't even read the bulk of my posts to this point for "wallposting" while you were VLA.
I'm rarely confident in my reads. I like sharing my thoughts so people can see what I'm thinking. I think it's pro-town for other players to understand my thought process and how strongly or not strongly I feel about slots and why. You aren't the first to give me a hard time for not being super sure or overly confident on my reads, but it's how I play especially in early game until I feel the game is more solvable

[Dragon of the West]

V/LA until 05Oct

I should be able to do a catch up once a day or every other day, but probably won't be around throughout. I'll be in the mountains a lot throughout the week so I'd be mobile-posting with AOL dial-up quality internet signal while not at the hotel. Probably would be faster to snail mail my posts lol

[Dragon of the West]

I'm pretty sure Andres is town with how Wake attacked that slot and was so willing to vote there to get pressure off himself. Only reason he'd be scum with Wake would be if Wake felt like Andres was too inactive or a weaker role that he was willing to sacrifice, which I guess is possible since Wake flipped a decently strong PR. But I still think Andres is much more likely town

[Dragon of the West]

MathBlade is scum.

He should 100% have my back, he should know I'm town.

I'm a bit thrown off by his claiming to have stopped the NK.

Why should Math KNOW you're town?

[Dragon of the West]

Oh, something I wanted to follow-up on:
@Math - how in any way is your role claim of Simple Jailkeeper milleresque? I don't see it at all

[Dragon of the West]

There's a nonzero chance the the mafia no-killed.

I don't see this after scum getting limmed D1

[Dragon of the West]

For those of you who think DGB is town, who is scum?

House is top of my scum list

[Dragon of the West]

If House was scum he knows that Wake was flipping scum so House refusing to vote Wake at EOD is ?

A) town b/c he'd want the town cred

B.) WIFOM

C.) Arrogant trolling as scum because someone can make argument A easily <---

[Dragon of the West]

Oh, something I wanted to follow-up on:
@Math - how in any way is your role claim of Simple Jailkeeper milleresque? I don't see it at all

viewtopic.php?p=13009413#p13009413

Lol 2323

[Dragon of the West]

VOTE: House

[Dragon of the West]

3 more votes till a house fakeclaim

I'll give it to you now.

I'm a Compulsive Self-targeting Friendly Neighbor.

Spoiler: House stepclaiming

One of {Mathblade/Me} has to die today.

Math is a scum jailkeeper.

I'm a town roleblocker & Rolecop.

Mod is fucking with us by switching typical roles between town & scum.

I don't even care if you lim me first. When i flip exactly as i say, turbolim Math.

Did you crumb House?

I refused to claim, because saying I'm a roleblocker & Rolecop at e-1 would just result in a hammer anyway.

There is no incentive to actually CLAIM this role as town

My 3rd shot?

1x Neighborizer.

I was going to use it on Titus tonight because we know how to find each other.

DGB is prob town because of Math.

Wow. You guys really don't know how to slow down when a girl is on vacation.

It's worse than that. It seems to me they don't know how to translate roles into a mechanical actions map. I don't see ANY contradictions between Math's and House's roles. It's like a Fruit Vendor is CCing a Vigilante!!!!

You're running your mouth with the benefit of having the full claim.

He claimed Jailkeeper - NOT SIMPLE JAILKEEPER - when i hard countered.

Fix't.

That's what I get for posting while getting set to drive.

Sorry.

I claimed simple and have crumbed simple throughout.

If I forgot the word simple it’s an oversight but I don’t think I have.

Okay.

Well, Simple, Complex, and Lazy are modifiers that were added after I was banned.

I knew what my modifiers were due to my role pm, but didn't really identify Simple as one until it was said a few times.

VOTE: DGB

That's who I roleblocked.

I have to give credit to Nero.

He convinced me the hood was dirty. I just wasn't going to talk about it in the game thread.

House, why didn't we have a party? You said you wanted to get a shiny neighborhood with me.

Since I was outed, I figured I'd likely be the n1 kill so I targeted DGB in an effort to survive.

Wait, what's your claim? It's not roleblocker?

JoaT

Neighborizer
Complex Roleblocker
Lazy Rolecop

do you love to claim in parts?

Lol at you thinking 1718 was a claim.

Feel like 2629 is much more relevant. You didn't claim complex or Lazy until you wanted the 1v1 to die down AND you called Math scum before Math claimed JK and you counterclaimed

[Dragon of the West]

Spoiler:

Yeah it was aimless shade but it’s very early.

Now why would you say that, Gamma?

I don't like the idea of shade being "aimless." Last I checked throwing shade for no reason sure as Hell doesn't read Town to me. It being early doesn't matter much at all.

Do me a solid... read my last 50 posts and give me a quick and dirty opinion of my slot.

I won't hold you to it after a thorough read. It's more for other reasons.

You're not trying to rush me, are you?

You had better hope you aren't.

I'll be combing my way through at my own pace. What's the point of rushing? We've got time.

Yeah it was aimless shade but it’s very early.

Now why would you say that, Gamma?

I don't like the idea of shade being "aimless." Last I checked throwing shade for no reason sure as Hell doesn't read Town to me. It being early doesn't matter much at all.

Do me a solid... read my last 50 posts and give me a quick and dirty opinion of my slot.

I won't hold you to it after a thorough read. It's more for other reasons.

You're not trying to rush me, are you?

You had better hope you aren't.

I'll be combing my way through at my own pace. What's the point of rushing? We've got time.

Obviously not, as I already told you that I wouldn't hold that opinion against you after a thorough read.

Why are you so paranoid about a simple request?

And these feel like scum theater to help Wake ease into a game he missed the first thousand posts of

Same with 1046 and 1047

On page 9.

Two things:

1) I can't read Titus.

2) Mathblade, could you stop being coy?

You guys have each other in your signatures, aren't you friends? Weird energy in here tonight.

Why even post if you're not gonna say anything?

Wake has said nothing of substance up until this point. He's literally just "argued" with House for a few pages and then made random statements that don't have any really bearing on the game

1132 looks really bad imo

[Dragon of the West]

I don’t see House + DBG unless they shot A50 and I kinda doubt it.

House wouldn’t visit a partner in the case they thought A50 was a watcher.

FYPOV, why would scum!House be worried A50 was watching DGB and able to refute the claim of visiting DGB if he targeted him for the NK? If town!Math is simple JK, that's most likely the town protective and A50 as a watcher wouldn't be able to be protected so he'd be dead if they targeted there

[Dragon of the West]

I can’t be scum without DGB scum

Why? I feel like I must be missing something...being in a hood with a town!DGB doesn't conftown you

[Dragon of the West]

In that world I am a JK to look bad to house rolecop possibly.

Simple Jailkeeper is like..the towniest role of all time. All a simple Jailkeeper can do is protect VTs from being NKd and stop goons from doing NKs...in what world does a role cop see that and think it's scum?

[Dragon of the West]

If I saw simple JK as a rolecop I would be torn over town or scum.

Tell me what utility a simple Jailkeeper provides to scum. Regardless of House's claimed role. What would a simple Jailkeeper do for scum

[Dragon of the West]

I don’t see House + DBG unless they shot A50 and I kinda doubt it.

House wouldn’t visit a partner in the case they thought A50 was a watcher.

FYPOV, why would scum!House be worried A50 was watching DGB and able to refute the claim of visiting DGB if he targeted him for the NK? If town!Math is simple JK, that's most likely the town protective and A50 as a watcher wouldn't be able to be protected so he'd be dead if they targeted there

A50 wasn't a real watcher though...

I'm saying scum!House wouldn't be afraid to lie about visiting scum!DGB because of a watcher he tried to shoot that couldn't be protected by town! Simple JK math

[Dragon of the West]

I'm pretty far behind, I'll try to catch up in the morning. I don't think DGB is scum and Andres is prob-town, don't know why people are thinking of limming there. Andres could be scum, but I doubt it. That doesn't seem like a high probability of success or a flip that gives much info if town

[Dragon of the West]

If he flips town (highly doubt it), we lim DGB, but there HAS to be scum in the neighborhood with the wildly different claims about what was said and Math has been spewing agenda all day.

It always pings me when people say "let's lim here and if they flip town, let's lim over there next" without a mechanical 1v1 being in play. Just reads like scum trying to set up mislims or future pushes for themselves.

[Dragon of the West]

I mean he said that in thread, before A50 claimed VT. If A50 would claim otherwise then this whole plan would fail.

@House, Math just lost a game due to, partially, his partner not killing anyone. He doesn't no kill here.

Even Math agrees DGB's summary was accuraye. He's just assuming incorrectly that Math is scum for it.

He does have an agenda to be conftown but his accuracy is likely correct unless DGB flips scum.

This is true.

DGB is telling the truth but scum ate and not give reads is typical scum play.

You guys mention AtE a lot as scum play...and I just feel like throughout my games so far it hasn't been alignment indicative at all. Like AtE can be fallacious so it shouldn't be taken from a logical perspective, but I see town and scum both get frustrated and use fallacious arguments all the time. I just don't think scum!DGB would act like that when being roleblocked wouldn't be a hard guilty

[Dragon of the West]

Didn't mean to quote 3063 there

[Dragon of the West]

Good way to test is I jailkeep A50.
House neighborizes A50
Since jailkeep doesn’t stop actions
This should work and if House is town win win.

If House is scum who has already neighborized DGB this fails.

You all agree A50 is town
Then y’all can have your stupid hero elim

I vote DGB or Kerset in protest.

I think House is scum straight up but if he's town he should be using his role cop N2. 1) because that ability is the most pro-town/powerful piece of his JoAT claim and 2) because it'd be strange for there to be two role cops in the game, even with different alignments. Not rolecopping someone N1 seems super weird to me

[Dragon of the West]

Meanwhile; Ythan is the quietest player on D2. Can someone tell me what Ythan did that looked town to you? Would be helpful if you quoted them posts you think look townie to you. Thanks

I had them as town D1 from Gamma...but I don't think Ythan has done anything that's reinforced the idea that they're town since the replace in...I might be giving my Gamma read too much credit here

[Dragon of the West]

What about the replace out was townie to you?

Knowing Gamma and who Gamma is.

I don’t see Gamma doing that as scum.

Opening up like that right before just ragequitting.

That implies a genuine emotion without strategy.

Not saying this isn't case by case, but you literally just said AtE DGB = scum!DGB...but for someone else's AtE that locks them as town for you

[Dragon of the West]

The most protown move is to rolecop (which tbh should be done on previous night). The fact that house has neighborizing doesn't prove his alignment, scum also may have such.

The most protown move is to rolecop (which tbh should be done on previous night).

even if Kerset is scum this is correct

Thirded

[Dragon of the West]

Requires nonstick frying pan (Blue Diamond is the best)

Seconding the blue diamond recommendation

[Dragon of the West]

Let's lim Andres.

I really don't understand why an Andres lim would be good at all

[Dragon of the West]

Vote Count 1.18

Dragon of the West (E-2)

- Titus, Cat Scratch Fever, Almost50, House, MathBlade

Titus (2)

- ssbm_Kyouko, Nero Cain

MathBlade (1)

- Ythan

Ythan (1)

- Andresvmb

Almost50 (1)

- Wake88

Cat Scratch Fever (1)

- Kerset

House (1)

- Dragon of the West

Not voting (1)

: DrippingGoofball

It takes

7

votes to eliminate.

Mod Notes:

House and Titus are VLA through the 20th of September.

Deadline

: (expired on 2021-09-23 17:06:41)

Phone forgot this but the point stands.

I see zero reason for CSF to move from DoTW to Wake if scum.

I'm kind of torn on CSF's slot. I disagree that they're cleared through VCA, but some of their posting has seemed townie to me. Hopping of the Wake wagon was really bad...but it was almost so bad I feel like scum wouldn't have done it because it looks so terrible.

For this post though, scum could have moved off my wagon because they didn't want to look bad by being on a wagon that flips town

[Dragon of the West]

I dont think a rolecop ever buys that a Simple JK is a scum role.

Thank you

[Dragon of the West]

There is nothing and the predecessor was scum and replaced out

Sell me on scum!Gamma because my townread on Gamma is still influencing my read of Ythan's slot, even though I don't think Ythan has seemed particularly townie

[Dragon of the West]

Also, I feel a bit like House is just aimless and I'm not sure if that's really a town mindsight. Can I get some opinions on House not using his rolecop ability last night?

Vote Count 2.11

Cat Scratch Fever (E-2)

- DrippingGoofball, Titus, House, Almost50, MathBlade

Kerset (1)

- Andresvmb

DrippingGoofball (1)

- Cat Scratch Fever

House (1)

- Dragon of the West

Not voting (4)

: Ythan, ssbm_Kyouko, Kerset, Nero Cain

It takes

7

votes to eliminate.

Mod Notes:

ssbm_Kyouko is VLA through the 26th of September. Dragon of the West is VLA through the 5th of October. Cat Scratch Fever was previously prodded and has (expired on 2021-09-27 08:19:12) to post before I begin looking for a replacement.

Deadline

: (expired on 2021-10-03 23:06:00)

yeow at me being the top wagon with two votes from people who don't really think I'm scum afaict?

I probably should've declared a v/la for the weekend, but as there's basically no hope of me absorbing the last 20 pages, and admittedly I don't look great by VCA, I'm just going to claim Town [redacted] Backup Vig. Incidentally, I think I'd make for a good rolecop target tonight, and if House survives and can name my entire role, we'll basically have two locktowns because there's already a flipped scum role cop and I don't think scum would be given two role cops.

Hmmm...not sure what to make of this claim. I don't feel too great about relying on House to rolecop because I really think he's scum and you could both be scum together making it meaningless. Especially because I think we should be limming House today. If House flips red this ask to be role copped to create conftowns would look kinda bad for CSF.

I'm not super interested in limming a CSF slot I don't feel strongly about that's claiming a vig role. I think the claim should work itself out mechanically

[Dragon of the West]

Dude, posting from mobile sucks. I must keep hitting Q+ trying to zoom and not realizing it

[Dragon of the West]

Can I get some opinions on House not using his rolecop ability last night?

I think town!JoAT that House claimed would and should use rolecop N1, it's the most valuable of his roles to make sure are used. The roleblock has such a low chance of success at stopping scum and if he blocks N1 kill to "keep himself alive", why wouldn't scum just shoot him N2 before he can get a role cop result now that they know he doesn't have his roleblock left?

[Dragon of the West]

Which all town neighbors would have long since claimed by now so then taking out a minor role to avoid the dilemma.

I just want to add that other roles besides neighbor give a "can communicate with other players" result to Traffic analyst...but I'm confident House would only show that result if he's scum and/or has used his neighborize...and frankly I'd say him using the neighborize before role cop is a guilty claim

[Dragon of the West]

I have a decent amount of catching up to do but where I'm currently reading I think it makes sense for me to claim. I'm a town mailman, which means I'm able to communicate with living players privately and will appear that way to a TA.

I've been trying to figure out if there's a way I could use this role in a more helpful way that required me staying unclaimed, but I really don't think there is and I'm pretty sure my role was just put into the game just to create more fuckery for the Traffic Analyst. N1 I sent a message to Kyo letting her know my role because she was my strongest townread. Tonight I was planning to send a message to A50 letting him know since he's obvtown

[Dragon of the West]

So if we're talking about eliminating in the VTs and no one is claiming vig, CSF is the obvious choice. Backup vig is a weird, out of place claim; if there's no vig, CSF has no utility; if town!Math, CSF can't even be protected despite being useless. At best, CSF is useless town who hasn't really helped solve anyways. At worst, they're scum. I prefer this over a no lim and being in the same place tomorrow

VOTE: CSF

I believe that's L-1

[Dragon of the West]

Been without service all day; too much to read in the time I have tonight so I'll catch up in the morning.

First thoughts:
-Math pushing the CSF rolecop looks not great
-idc if he didn't wind up on CSF, A50 still obvtown
-House only scum if he's so arrogant that he busses both buddies D1 and D2...which actually I'd believe but I don't think that's what's most likely

Not voting until I can properly catch up

[Dragon of the West]

Why is it that ppl are acting like a50 makes 0 sense as the n1 kill? to me, that's just the simplest solution and explains the no kill. So kinda makes Math's role look real? ofc, there's the tin foil that Math no killed so he looks real but he's in the POE anyways so eh...

With an ascetic flip, A50 was 100% the N1 target because of the watcher soft thing. Watcher is one of the very few roles that could catch an ascetic NK

[Dragon of the West]

Finally off VLA, had a big travel day yesterday but should be around more now

Has anyone gotten a message today?

I messaged A50 last Night.

@A50 - looking at the game state toDay, does my plan even make sense or add value? The only person remaining that might make sense would be 5?

[Dragon of the West]

Finally off VLA, had a big travel day yesterday but should be around more now

Has anyone gotten a message today?

I messaged A50 last Night.

@A50 - looking at the game state toDay, does my plan even make sense or add value? The only person remaining that might make sense would be 5?

Remind me what your plan is again please?

A50 can share if he feels like it's beneficial to but it's a federal crime to open someone else's mail

[Dragon of the West]

Or we can clear Kerset by jailing him and just win by limming DotW

DotW is bloody TOWN. I received a message from him last night with some details that I won't believe a Scum cares to mention

@Math

[Dragon of the West]

Dragons is waiting for his wagon to pass.

There really isn't much of a wagon and I haven't seen anyone give much of a reason why I'm scum. Titus has been riding a scumread on me since I made a joke they didn't like in RVS and hasn't engaged with any of my posts until now

[Dragon of the West]

Vote Count 2.15

Ythan (E-2)

- Almost50, House, Titus, Kerset, DrippingGoofball

DrippingGoofball (3)

- Cat Scratch Fever, MathBlade, Nero Cain

House (1)

- Dragon of the West

Kerset (1)

- Andresvmb

MathBlade (1)

- ssbm_Kyouko

Not voting (1)

: Ythan

It takes

7

votes to eliminate.

Mod Notes:

Dragon of the West is VLA through the 5th of October.

Deadline

: (expired on 2021-10-03 23:06:00)

Vote Count 2.16

Ythan (E-2)

- Almost50, House, Titus, Kerset, DrippingGoofball

DrippingGoofball (3)

- Cat Scratch Fever, MathBlade, Nero Cain

House (1)

- Dragon of the West

Kerset (1)

- Andresvmb

MathBlade (1)

- ssbm_Kyouko

Not voting (1)

: Ythan

It takes

7

votes to eliminate.

Mod Notes:

Dragon of the West is VLA through the 5th of October. Andresvmb has been prodded and has (expired on 2021-09-29 08:08:16) to post before I begin looking for a replacement.

Deadline

: (expired on 2021-10-03 23:06:00)

Vote Count 2.17

Ythan (E-2)

- Almost50, House, Titus, Kerset, DrippingGoofball

DrippingGoofball (3)

- Cat Scratch Fever, MathBlade, Nero Cain

House (2)

- Dragon of the West, ssbm_Kyouko

Kerset (1)

- Andresvmb

Not voting (1)

: Ythan

It takes

7

votes to eliminate.

Mod Notes:

Dragon of the West is VLA through the 5th of October. Andresvmb was previously prodded and has (expired on 2021-09-29 08:08:16) to post before I begin looking for a replacement.

Deadline

: (expired on 2021-10-03 23:06:00)

Vote Count 2.18

Ythan (E-1)

- Almost50, House, Titus, Kerset, DrippingGoofball, Nero Cain

House (2)

- Dragon of the West, ssbm_Kyouko, MathBlade

DrippingGoofball (1)

- Cat Scratch Fever

Kerset (1)

- Andresvmb

Not voting (1)

: Ythan

It takes

7

votes to eliminate.

Mod Notes:

Dragon of the West is VLA through the 5th of October. Andresvmb was previously prodded and has (expired on 2021-09-29 08:08:16) to post before I begin looking for a replacement.

Deadline

: (expired on 2021-10-03 23:06:00)

If I was scum, I would have found a reason to hop on Ythan AT SOME POINT yesterDay. CSF got wagoned and the wagon lost steam multiple times until I compromised and put CSF at L-1. I'm not pretending I pushed CSF's wagon because my read there was weak as all hell and I didn't really have strong thoughts on the slot. But if I was scum with CSF, I wouldn't have just watched their wagon build and fade over and over again without jumping on the other feasible wagon when it finally presented itself and they claimed cop, just to turn around and NK it

[Dragon of the West]

Of the claimed VTs, I can really only see Kerset as possible scum right now. I still think Andres and Kyo are their town selves.
I've never seen DGB want it this bad or put this much effort into solving so I feel paranoia there, but not enough to lim it. I'm mainly suspecting of Titus and House, I think one of them has a completely backwards read on the other. A50 and Math are mechanically locktown and obviously Nero is conf!town

[Dragon of the West]

I plan to go back to the beginning of D3 and truly catch up from there, just need some time sitting at my computer. I'm sick of being on mobile

[Dragon of the West]

I don’t think a scum player makes a fake claim with a wildcard house assuming house is town though

I just don’t buy it when playing solo.

But weren't all the claims made D2? Before scum would have been solo?

[Dragon of the West]

I mean, I don't care about dying but I'm the correct keep b/c im cop cleared. If Math is town and too little to do the pro-town thing then that's on him but making sure that the inno stays alive seems like the correct play, no?

Why can't Math just keep you in the pool of possible targets? If town!Math, I really don't see scum shooting at town!VTs, including you, that could be protected. Scum already had a night without a NK, I don't see them risking another

[Dragon of the West]

I don’t think a scum player makes a fake claim with a wildcard house assuming house is town though

I just don’t buy it when playing solo.

But weren't all the claims made D2? Before scum would have been solo?

CSF barely posted. I don’t remember the exact order but I pretty much think the scum present is solo or solo adjacent so everyone is likely true claimed.

Okay I could see that with town!House, but I'm nowhere near assuming House is town. I might be confbiasing with help from A50's posts but I believe House is scum here

VOTE: House

I think if someone fake claimed and House is town, House would be dead so I'm aligned that if House flips green then everyone probably true claimed

[Dragon of the West]

I don't really give a shit if you guys kill me.

This game is toxic. I'm done.

I'm gonna be honest, playing with the combination of you, Titus, and Math has been a really unpleasant experience

[Dragon of the West]

I'm gonna be honest, playing with the combination of you, Titus, and Math has been a really unpleasant experience

I think Titus has been mostly ok. House is toxic and Math isn't as bad but less so than Titus

For Titus and Math it's the combination of all of them that makes it unpleasant, individually I think they're probably fine

[Dragon of the West]

I'm mainly suspecting of Titus and House, I think one of them has a completely backwards read on the other

I don’t think a scum player makes a fake claim with a wildcard house assuming house is town though

I just don’t buy it when playing solo.

It feels to me like either Titus or House, as scum, would be able to play/pocket the other one if one is town and one is scum.

They seem to know each other well and oftentimes when that happens the scum can take some advantage of the predisposition of the town one to

want

subconsciously to work with someone they like, and more easily get TRed by them.

[Dragon of the West]

Oh shit A50 come here before mod to tell me if I should message 5

[Dragon of the West]

Finally off VLA, had a big travel day yesterday but should be around more now

Has anyone gotten a message today?

I messaged A50 last Night.

@A50 - looking at the game state toDay, does my plan even make sense or add value? The only person remaining that might make sense would be 5?

Oh shit A50 come here before mod to tell me if I should message 5

Both of these were supposed to say 3, not 5
Can't even look at a list right

[Dragon of the West]

@Nero or I guess anyone else who agrees with the 5 VT setup spec - what about 5 VTs makes so much sense in the case of this game? Is 5 PRs and 5 VTs for town just super common and balanced? Or is there something about this game that makes that amount more likely?

[Dragon of the West]

Scum shot A50 because of Kyo’s posts.

Which of Kyo's posts?

[Dragon of the West]

@Nero or I guess anyone else who agrees with the 5 VT setup spec - what about 5 VTs makes so much sense in the case of this game? Is 5 PRs and 5 VTs for town just super common and balanced? Or is there something about this game that makes that amount more likely?

I don't really want to out my thought process here yet but I'd like this answered

[Dragon of the West]

I don't think that is what's going on. It's a brain fart of the kind that scum is unlikely to do.

I usually don't give any credence to dumb tells, but unless this is a traitor game I think that's a real townslip from Kyo...and I don't think this is a traitor game

[Dragon of the West]

No result is as good as guilty in that situation

Because of this, I'm not sure if CSF was trying to protect someone from being rolecopped or just buy another day.

This ties into my 5 VT paranoia

[Dragon of the West]

OK.. sharing the plan without the code works for me..

He was mainly asking if it's worth giving each of us a code number (ex: #4 would be me) and then message the PRs with it (but wanted my feedback on who's Scum to avoid letting them in). PRs then would crumb their target using that code.

That way -say- if Math died while he was supposedly blocking Kerset we know Kerset didn't do it.

The upside is Scum can't tell if Math was on them, so can't try a No-Kill gambit, nor can they avoid shooting Math's target. The downside is there's still a none-zero chance the last Scum isn't Vanilla, but has claimed to be, so Math's block isn't a guilty (but a lack of a NK is still likely an innocent check on the target)

And before anyone thinks "DotW is SCUM and wants to know who Math would be targeting to work around that" I ask you this: Why waste a night asking for a claimed VT advice before he messages Math?? And even assuming 2 Scums alive (very doubtful, but still a none-zero chance) why won't he message Titus before me?

So, the very fact that he decided to delay the plan and ask for advice from me clears him, because TODAY he still doesn't get any info, because none of the living PRs knows what number would be assigned to their target.

@Titus - if you were paying any attention at all rather than blindly tunneling without a case, you'd see A50 ALREADY SAID what I messaged him. The only detail he didn't include is the number assignments for obvious reasons.

Math can choose whether he wants to use the numbers, announce in thread like yesterday, tell DGB in the hood PT, or any combination of those. And if town!Math, using some combination of those frankly gives him and town the best chance to coordinate and potentially catch scum. Scum can't kill Math, DGB, myself, and the person I message tonight all at once

[Dragon of the West]

Math - are you cool with me messaging the list to 2?

I'm now kicking myself for not making the code multiple digits or more complex lol

[Dragon of the West]

Which lends to me being town. If scum shoot me they instantly reveal I am useful and scum in the VTs.

This is a little shortsighted, I feel. If scum don't shoot town!you, it could be because they're a PR fake claiming VT and they're eagerly awaiting their "clear". It's also why I'm paranoid that CSF was baiting rolecop to remove a fakeclaimed VTs ability to get caught

[Dragon of the West]

If I was wrong scum would agree and nuzzle up and go “Yeah sure”

They aren’t. It’s been fighting each day.

Anything scum don’t want I do.

Well you're still proposing scum in VTs, which under my scenario they wouldn't like. They would never nuzzle up to that if they could focus lims in the PRs AND get you to "clear" them.

But this is exactly why I want to understand what's so common about 5 VTs; I have such little experience with setup spec I have no idea how confident I should be that there'd definitely be 5 VTs in a game like this or if my paranoia is warranted at all

[Dragon of the West]

@Nero or I guess anyone else who agrees with the 5 VT setup spec - what about 5 VTs makes so much sense in the case of this game? Is 5 PRs and 5 VTs for town just super common and balanced? Or is there something about this game that makes that amount more likely?

I could still use an answer for this. Came back to the people arguing 5 VTs already having hammered Kerset so it obviously wasn't written in stone but I want to understand the setup spec assumption

[Dragon of the West]

I really don't know what to make of Titus here. Like I don't see scum!Titus sticking themselves out like this and self voting. I guess it could just be a big brain move so everyone thinks they must be town but...meh. If that's what she did it worked on me
Math is town because the only way N1 NK doesn't happen with town!DGB is if no kill and I'm not going to consider scum no killing N1
I'm like 80% sure Kyo is just town!Kyo here by play and it's significantly more probable they're just VT rather than scum!PR fakeclaiming VT
Nero conftown
Just leaves DGB for me today but I'll wait to vote until 2 confirms the message numbers in case for some reason that does anything?

[Dragon of the West]

It's clean and neat.

Thank you for at least acknowledging

[Dragon of the West]

You sent the list to 2 yeah?

Yessir

[Dragon of the West]

Math I'm gonna be honest none of what you said makes any sense to me

[Dragon of the West]

You think if 2 has the list....I'm scum. FYPOV, who do I send the list to if I'm town? Like if 2 DIDN'T have the list, you think that makes me town?

[Dragon of the West]

I picked Nero because the whole point was creating town that knows the list and Nero is conftown

[Dragon of the West]

And that brings me to my follow-up which is why do you need any confirmation from Nero then? You should just be voting me

[Dragon of the West]

If town!DGB, Math had to have stopped N1 NK because the only other claimed block was town!House on DGB, so he's town. If scum!DGB, Math is town as long as there are only 3 scum. Either way you cut it, Math is town

[Dragon of the West]

I was gonna wait for Nero because I thought Math had something up his sleeve...but the proposal as explained doesn't make sense to me so:

VOTE: DGB

[Dragon of the West]

Math I want you to think about why I would kill Andres there instead of just offing Nero despite our coordination and going "Oh well". It's not like I have to prove I'm a mailman

[Dragon of the West]

@Nero or I guess anyone else who agrees with the 5 VT setup spec - what about 5 VTs makes so much sense in the case of this game? Is 5 PRs and 5 VTs for town just super common and balanced? Or is there something about this game that makes that amount more likely?

I could still use an answer for this. Came back to the people arguing 5 VTs already having hammered Kerset so it obviously wasn't written in stone but I want to understand the setup spec assumption

But I'm town so you know it's not from informed scum. Also we know it's /5 at this point so why does it matter?

Well it matters for my own understanding of this and future games. And I'm pretty sure Kyo is town so it's very likely /5, but it's only /5 as long as Kyo isn't a scum PR fakeclaiming VT

[Dragon of the West]

This dilemma is also why I wanted to investigate all the VTs once it became clear that we would be down to one scum.

The only two person team (yes I know I am dumb) is Titus/Kyo.

If we want to go with one person scum (more likely) then it’s in DGB/DoTW/Kyo/Titus.

So assuming we miselim I die or scum keep me and Nero into tomorrow shrinking the PoE.

I would much prefer if we are going with one scum Titus and Kyo be forced to vote in DoTW and DGB first. This way it becomes incredibly unlikely for them to hammer if they are two scum.

I am having a hard time getting Kyo’s post out of my head and am wondering if Kyo is a scum traitor tbh.

I know I know I am dumb.

But I think Kyo immediately voting on Titus is weird.

If Kyo was traitor with Titus why would Kyo vote Titus? If Titus is last group scum and dies, scum lose

[Dragon of the West]

Assume one scum.
Six alive today assume miselim in DGB/DoTW/Titus. Assume I die.
Four alive. Nero and Kyo both are town read. Assume no elim.
Nero dies.

Scum in DoTW/DGB/Titus whoever is left cross voted with Kyo deciding.

I'm probably missing something obvious, but why would we no lim in 4 person Melo just to let the conftown get NK'd?

[Dragon of the West]

You guys hammered while I was working no fair lol

[Dragon of the West]

I didn't even get to give my "why would I kill A50/Andres l, they were the only people all game to defend me" defense

[Dragon of the West]

I said this in my empty mafia PT, but Math was wrong about EVERY reason I had but came to the right conclusion of "Titus was the last mislim". It didn't have anything to do with Nero mislimming Titus, Nero wanted me limmed. I was trying to set it up so I looked set up to be a final mislim by scum NKing the only people to defend me and knowing they could out argue me since I'm a weaker player

[Dragon of the West]

Thanks for mod Dwlee. Cool setup with all the TA fake guilties

[Dragon of the West]

Very well balanced which has been rare in recent games

Seconded. Didn't feel overly one-sided. Scum got blown up D1 and D2 but was play-related rather than setup spec related which was nice

[Dragon of the West]

Math, something you had right was I didn't shoot Nero because I was afraid you'd gambit and protect there

[Dragon of the West]

But the main reason was because Andres defended me and I wanted to be able to flip it later to look like I was set up to be mislimmed by removing anyone that townread me

[Dragon of the West]

If I got past today I was NKing Math and then hoping for a Titus/DGB mislim

[Dragon of the West]

If I got past today I was NKing Math and then hoping for a Titus/DGB mislim

By NKing Math, you'd be forced to eliminate Nero as a nightkill after that.

Then you'd get me, DGB, Kyouko.

Me and DGB TRed each other. Yet not killing Kyouko would be odd.

If you left me/DGB alive, you'd have to play off Calculasia but I am not sure if you'd know that.

If you shot me or DGB, the other would vote you and Kyouko would logically wonder why he's alive in elo being near conftown.

Oh if you no limmed in Melo I was NKing Nero. That was a given

[Dragon of the West]

Would've been Kyo/DGB, you, and me

[Dragon of the West]

And the BP??

Red herring for scum.

And we fell right into it lol