Mini Normal 2239 | AQAtPimP | Game Over

[Datisi]

Current PoE (in order):
Salsabil Faria
ChaosOmega
Aristeia
Datisi

also this was your order before, and ari has been townreading you for much longer than just today, so...?

[Datisi]

it's not "someone", it's not "halfway decent", and you're still not saying why it is scummy. i get it's not fun to read. i'm not even saying it's townie because frankly i wouldn't have any moral problems in attempting to fake a meltdown if i thought it would help me. but you're not saying *why* it makes me *scum*.

i have no memory of you saying that, especially if it was early in the game. contrary to my title, i don't actually remember every single post made in the games i played in.

pedit: this is re 1707

[Datisi]

Unless you mean explain why your posting has been a bad look?

In which case I suggest getting an ounce of perspective. I have never flipped so hard on another person in my life

that is what i was asking, yes. that post doesn't say much else, other than you apparently thinking ari wouldn't be townreading you as scum, which I don't understand atm but as i am literally in bed and about to sleep, that fact checking will have to wait.

i can't get any perspective because i can only see the game through my own eyes. and what i see is a shitty case from a conftown who's already been shown to not easily change her mind. why does freaking out make me scum. is it being survivalistic? do you think scum!me is able to be so calm throughout the whole game but unable to keep my shit because of one case? like, seriously, you are still not explaining shit on why my behaviour is scummy to you.

[Datisi]

because you frankly don't deserve to be townread so it doesn't make sense for you to be this angry at a scumread.

i wouldn't have been angry if the scumread made sense and wasn't coming from conftown, why is that so difficult to understand??

i'm partly rl-challenged and partly this game feels like a chore. day 3 was difficult bc everyone ended up focusing on gamma and i felt it was wrong but I didn't have enough conviction or good enough reads to push elsewhere so here we are.

[Datisi]

SSBM's post on you was particularly terrifying

heaven fucking help me.

that imagining of datisi/salsa is especially unmemorable considering you said absolutely nothing about it. i'll go through whatever was your read on ari tomorrow. logging off for real.

[Datisi]

why?

[Datisi]

or like better q, what happened from last night to now that you post that?

[Datisi]

i was here until 1 am yesterday and because of that i slept only 6 hours so can you not?

i'm here as much as time and brain allows. I won't lie and say it's town! indicative for me because obviously it's not but we just had a game where i was a town lurksack so i'm kinda ??? at you making it out to be a definitely a scum!me thing?

[Datisi]

i plan in actually rereading day 1 (at least the more interesting / relevant parts) once i get home today, which should be much much earlier than yesterday. you'll have to wait for that, i'm currently on my way to my morning lectures.

my issue is that i feel some level of confidence that there can't be that much town power left (because we already have 3 ic's practically) and if you're telling the truth then we have a decent bit more than that.

something i wanted to ask of you anyway, you called kyouko's case a bit decent or something like that. what about it do you find decent? what about my response to it doesn't sit well with you?

[Datisi]

also, when you presented your salsa/datisi take earlier in the game, what were you actually thinking about it?

[Datisi]

@

Datisi

, your over reaction can point towards for scum!you also and even literally: conftown

ssbm

makes a case about scum!you ➤ some of the palyers are listening to the conftown ➤ the player whom scum!you can pocket so easily also reconsidering
➤ game is getting out of your hand ➤ thus the overreaction/nervousness/AtE whatever it is.

i'm aware on how it *can* come from scum. a lot of my posts (and everyone else's posts) *can* come from scum. i'm asking why is it scum indicative. because if you're calling me scum for it, you're saying you think that it's reasonably more likely to come from scum than from town. but i'm not seeing that, all i'm seeing is a broken record of "you look bad" without people taking into consideration whether town can also react like that.

[Datisi]

i was here until 1 am yesterday and because of that i slept only 6 hours so can you not?

i'm here as much as time and brain allows. I won't lie and say it's town! indicative for me because obviously it's not but we just had a game where i was a town lurksack so i'm kinda ??? at you making it out to be a definitely a scum!me thing?

Ok and in that game I was scum and you were an easy target and did I try to kill you at all?

I didn't try to harm a single hair on your head!!

Like it's just weird I make one comment about possibly thinking you might be scum and you automatically go to "Ari must be a bad person!!!"

how is that relevant? do you mean that just because scum!you didn't decide to push me in that one game, that scum!you would never push me? like i'm not accepting that as a valid reason to townread you because frankly that borders a trust tell

like my point in bringing that up was that you have seen town!me play like this so purely calling it out as scummy is weird to me?

i've said why i thought you attacking me earlier was scummy. i've said what about your play so far i thought of as scummy. that comment was part of it but not all.

[Datisi]

It's also looks bad because of potential combo.

?

salsa's behaviour is definitely weird, and i'm puzzled by the "pls don't kill me yet, i need to say something... ok i'm self voting gl town" and i'm hoping she comes back and actually contributes because at some point the only thing we can conclude is antispew, but we've been going down the poe and we have two green flips and i'm anxious.

[Datisi]

im saying i dont believe town you thinks scum me will push you and jump to that conclusion.

why not? if you see the tides are turning against me and knowing that i'm generally a difficult misyeet, why do you think town!me wouldn't have that thought?

[Datisi]

what tide r u even talking about

ONE PERSON CASED YOU

one person who is a conftown and who people are much more likely to listen to

then you add to it and you're generally townread and that's already 2/4 needed

why do you think it's apparently impossible for town!me to see your comments there as helping kyouko in her push on me in a malicious way?

[Datisi]

im honestly very scared that kyouko is right

i would like to sheep what enchant/kyouko think because I know I can't trust myself to be objective about Datisi

yeah, this really did give a vibe of "I don't want to vote for datisi".

[Datisi]

I guess I have hope you would only be this way to me if you were mafia because if you were town you would realize I am worried.

there's a difference between "i am worried about datisi" and "i am worried about datisi, so i'm going to claim being unable to read him and say that i will just sheep the ic's on him right after one of the ic's said she thinks he's scum and voted him"

[Datisi]

i would like to sheep what enchant/kyouko think because I know I can't trust myself to be objective about Datisi

because you quite literally said so? if there is another interpretation of this post, please enlighten me, because that is what i got from it

[Datisi]

I'm contributing Datisi, I even proposed to vote myself out because clearly scum will take the benefit of the situation and it seems like they already started. I'm calling it: it's you and CO, the other two seems unlikely to be partnered with you.

what are you even saying? how is scum!me taking the benefit of the situation here? do you have any clue how easy it would've been for me to go "ye salsa is scummy that selfvote is bad lol let's vote her"? like genuinely this doesn't make any sense?

[Datisi]

Don't remember which player (they were in my early newbie game and an experienced player) but they said (not exactly like this) if you can't think of anything scummy about anyone, then they're likely to be scum.

???
you spent the past few posts explaining how something i told you earlier in the gane was attacking you and how my reaction to the case was scummy, and now you're saying this?

[Datisi]

???
yes, i'm questioning people who are claiming my reaction is scummy. i said it was *not townie*. it's not town!indicative. that doesn't mean it's scum!indicative. if you're claiming i'm scum for it, you obviously think it's scum!indicative, and i want actual reasoning for why something comes from scum but not for town rather than "hurr durr reaction bad"

i don't care about you calling out ari earlier, you're calling me out now, and i'm making you take a solid stance behind the things you're pushing

[Datisi]

I'm contributing Datisi, I even proposed to vote myself out because clearly scum will take the benefit of the situation and it seems like they already started. I'm calling it: it's you and CO, the other two seems unlikely to be partnered with you.

what are you even saying? how is scum!me taking the benefit of the situation here? do you have any clue how easy it would've been for me to go "ye salsa is scummy that selfvote is bad lol let's vote her"? like genuinely this doesn't make any sense?

Did you take an oath anywhere that scum!you can't use wifom ever or make any mistake or something??

you're claiming i'm taking advantage of the situation of you voting yourself and whatever. i'm asking how am i apparently taking advantage of that. you're dodging the question. like, genuinely asking, what do you think scum!me was trying to achieve there?

[Datisi]

(like your bad reaction CAN'T BE CONSIDERED as scum indicative by others where YOU LITERALLY SAID IT DOESN’T NECESSARILY TOWN INDICATIVE)

holy hell

i said it's not town indicative

but if you're claiming it's scum indicative, you need to give actual fucking arguments WHY it doesn't come from town and why it's scummy

not town indicative =/= scum indicative

what have i refused to answer. i said i wasn't ready to give out a solve as there are things i want to reread before i do that and answers i want to hear before i decide.

[Datisi]

or, OR, i'm not voting you because i'm town and i am unsure if just plowing through the poe is the right thing to do here since that's gotten us 2 green flips so far, but you're attacking me with some awful arguments that i have to defend against!

that explanation for what "scum me is doing" is incredibly weak and non specific? can you go into detail about what you thought there?

[Datisi]

If something isn’t town indicative then it's by default scum indicative or vice versa??? I never heard about null indicative term before unless that's the case here?

yes???? it's called "non alignment indicative"????????

like if i said "me typing in lowercase isn't town!indicative for me" (because i type in all lowercase every game regardless of my alignment) and then you said "so you typing in lowercase must be scum!indicative!" taht would be wrong? it's nai

i understand how my actions CAN come from scum

but the issue is if you want to claim they're scum indicative for me, not only do you have to explain why they CAN come from scum, you also need to show why they DON'T come from town

because if something can easily come from both town and scum (like for example, typing in all lowercase) it's worthless as a read

you've shown why it can be something to come from scum but you haven't shown why it's something that can't / isn't likely to come from town

[Datisi]

You are on my ass from D1, if people literally going against me by agreeing with you, I would have literally eliminated in D1 and you know that don't you?

sorry, i have no clue what you're trying to say here or what you think this proves.

and what mistake am i making? cut the shit with revealing it post game.

[Datisi]

???????????

It's NAI for you but you don't have any interest to say that before??

Overreaction itself doesn’t necessarily town indicative or scum indicative but you make it like this: I CAN'T BE REACTED LIKE THIS AS SCUM ⇨this is what I find scummy.

i've been saying it's not town indicative for like 5 years but i'm not about to call myself scum so what the fuck did you think i was saying other than that it's nai lmfao???

also can you rephrase the last part, i don't get it

[Datisi]

You are on my ass from D1, if people literally going against me by agreeing with you, I would have literally eliminated in D1 and you know that don't you?

sorry, i have no clue what you're trying to say here or what you think this proves.

and what mistake am i making? cut the shit with revealing it post game.

Why I point out your mistake when I'm considering you as scum??

you could answer both questions in that quote, you know...

so that you can try to convince other people of me being scum and so that i can see whether you're genuinely thinking about the game and you think you found a mistake or if you're scum bullshitting and i should yeet you into the sun?

[Datisi]

Dude, I've literally completed 1 year here a few days ago + I only played 1/2 games with you before this one? + I don’t stalk you so I can't know what is town, scum or nonalignment indicative for you.

From what you posted after being called out for the overreaction, it seems like you're telling that scum!you can never overreact the way you did, so that's literally and only town indicative and nothing else.

i was saying it's not town!indicative. but i'm not calling myself scum. therefore i'm claiming it's nai. holy shit.

anyway. i ask margot what's she liked about the kyouko case and what wasn't addressed in my response? she's gone
i point out aristeia quite literally said the thing she claimed i was interpreting? she's also gone
salsa claims i'm taking advantage of the situation but only gives a weaksauce nonspecific response as to what scum!me was apparently doing there and is calling me out for secret mistakes she doesn't wanna show

y'all see why i'm frustrated with this game?

kyouko, if chaos flips red, how sure are you salsa is cleared from chaos's push there? do you think the same would apply for aristeia?

also frankly i am a tiny bit annoyed you consider me the most obvious chaos partner for "not having meaningful interaction with him" when scum!me would've been yelling at him in the scum pt to join in on trying to murder me so that he doesn't stand out and so that we end up looking unaligned later on in case i actually flip. but i understand there's no way for me to actually prove what i'm saying here and i will instead accept the murder if he flips red and then drop one "i told you so" when i enter the dead thread.

in favour of chaos claiming, if anything because i want claims to happen and because i'm lowkey hoping that he claims a protective / blocker who did something last night and that makes us successfully force a massclaim because i am still skeptical of the confirmed + claimed amount of town power here. i really *want* to say whatever the fuck scum!margot is doing here mech-wise is outside general scumranges but i've seen scum bullshit via mech and i know she's generally ballsy scum so idk.

maybe i'll bother reading some of this game tomorrow.

[Datisi]

I am not going to vote for you because I can't do that to you and some part of me still thinks you are town.

I am town

If you are mafia there are 4 other townies who can vote for you.

okay, if some part of you still thinks i'm town, who is scum then?

For why I like ssbm case, without going through the game thread (which is a pain in the arse on mobile), I remember thinking it was incredibly detailed, and very logical. As I have said earlier, I am particularly interested in logical, rather than emotional, arguments, and that was the initial impression I got.

there are... a lot of things i *want* to say about this, but for the sake of the thread health and my sanity, i'm just going to ask you to, when you have time, actually go through the case, show me which logic you liked / agreed with and what about my response did you dislike or not agree with.

[Datisi]

Realistically, I don't see Datisi partnered with anyone else

mmm, i'm also gonna need elaboration on this. iirc, you still haven't shown the datisi/salsa connection you saw (link me if you have), and why do you think i don't fit with anyone else?

[Datisi]

where? all i found is you saying salsa is your top suspect but also that we should slow down. even if that's a scumread, that's still just one

why are you town, aristeia?

[Datisi]

are you purposefully misrepping the everliving shit out of what i'm saying or do you genuinely believe the crap you're spewing?

i'm watching something right now, so i'll get into why 1813 is a dumpsterfire after that.

[Datisi]

Realistically, I don't see Datisi partnered with anyone else

mmm, i'm also gonna need elaboration on this. iirc, you still haven't shown the datisi/salsa connection you saw (link me if you have), and why do you think i don't fit with anyone else?

Yes I have! What is your actual problem dude? I have said, already, that I felt like anyone partnered with you needs to be scum reading you. I've been clear on that, and given that you've apparently spent soooooo much time rereading the thread, you'd surely have found it in the ISO

where the fuck did you do that? you first mentioned that team in 1563, with no elaboration whatsoever. to then go "nvm" 5 minutes later. you even said later yourself (1716) that that was the first time you seriously thought of that team. when i ask "why were you thinking of that team?", i'm asking why you're thinking of it way back then when you first mentioned it. because if you first thought of it back on d3, there is no way that d4's events were actually influencing that read. so what was it?

furthermore, even if we say that i'm only talking about your d4 reads here and not d3, you said that anyone partnered with me has to be scumreading me. okay, fine! but you know who's showed that they're scumreading me today? both salsa and ari! so what i'm asking is why the fuck do you think that i'm not partnered with ari? you gave no explanation for why i'm suddenly not a viable ari partner, despite your "datisi's partner would've been scumreading him" read implying you shouldn't be thinking that. fuck me for asking you to elaborate on your vague unexplained thoughts?

This whole "where's the evidence" thing you're doing is unbelievably frustrating, because at this point, there is none. I think that's very clear. But there's none for anybody. If there was, the votes would be stacked up to go already. Noone is sure, because all the clear scumreads are already dead.

i don't ask for evidence. i *understand* there is no evidence for anything. i'm asking for evidence of your fucking thought process. to prove to me not what you're saying is true, but that you genuinely believe in what you're saying and how you got there. i don't give a shit about half-baked unexplained reads, i can't use them to solve anyone. i need a thought process that nobody is willing to give.

Honestly, sick of this. You are so intransigent and frustrating. Even if this is just a policy vote, it's a policy vote well earned by your slot. I'm trying to read slots, and you're fucking around with these flailing desperate attempts to beg people to provide evidence you know nobody has, and being cruel and hostile to everyone els let in the thread.

policy vote, what for, for playing the game? what, you figured out you can't say anything good about kyouko's case other than "hurr durr it's logical" so you attack and vote me based on policy?

i thought your posts after salsa's recent posting were scummy, because it felt like you were being purposefully ignorant of what she was saying when it was obvious she wasn't gonna properly defend herself which would let you push her. i was gonna wait for you to do the thing you love so much which is use facts and logic on kyouko's case on me. but no, you're just gonna throw a fit after me being annoyed for you talking about a salsa/datisi team since d3 and refusing to say why you were thinking of that team. fine.

VOTE: margotrosa

i'm vt. vote me out, vote salsa out tomorrow, lose the fucking game. i don't give a shit right now. partner is chaos/ari, slightly more likely to be chaos but i'm not gonna pretend like i know.

[Datisi]

Realistically, I don't see Datisi partnered with anyone else

ah yes. the very deep and elaborate explanation for why i can only be partnered with salsa. i truly have no idea how i could've possibly missed it.

[Datisi]

Realistically, I don't see Datisi partnered with anyone else

ah yes. the very deep and elaborate explanation for why i can only be partnered with salsa. i truly have no idea how i could've possibly missed it.

Read in context of all the posts I quoted, which incidentally, I didn't do for fun

in the context of 1793 to 1798? alright, let's see...

- 1793 says that you think chaos is the only person who does not make sense as my partner, as you doubt that i would make it that obvious (by shitfighting with everyone but him) that i'm partnered with him. reasonable, but doesn't say anything about ari/datisi.
- 1795 is talking about salsa's possible partnerships, you think she makes sense as a partner to either me or chaos, and to nobody else. nothing about ari/datisi.
- 1796 is a repeat of me and chaos not being partnered. nothing about ari/datisi.
- 1797 is the post in question, which now asserts that i cannot be partnered with anyone else [but salsa]. hmm... why is ari out of the picture again?
- 1798 is again talking about associates with salsa and doesn't mention me at all.

what context am i missing here? am i supposed to be psychic and magically know what you meant inbetween 1796 and 1797?

also noted that you have not addressed (1) what gave you a salsa/datisi vibe on d3, (2) the fact that you misrepped me about demanding "evidence", and (3) that you still haven't revisited the kyouko case and explained what you liked about it or what you disliked about my rebuttal.

[Datisi]

Salsa makes sense to me as your partner because you two rarely interact,

I feel like there has been very little in the way of Salsa appealing to you in the way she has done to other slots, almost as if she doesn't feel the need to convince you to read her in a certain way.

i can't comment on the latter, since it's salsa's doing and not mine, but the bolded kinda annoys me. like, if i'm scum in this game, i entered the game screaming and bashing at one of my partners... while basically ignoring the other? it's kinda *odd* to hear this from you, considering you were the one who said "scum don't make themselves obviously aligned before lylo". like, i dunno, if you're the one to think of that, you don't strike me as a player to also think that i'm +scum with someone have little associates with, especially considering both scenarios are discussing the same hypothetical scum!datisi.

I began wondering whether you two were a team because I thought about your Salsa/Margot read, and felt it was insurance

cool, would it have killed you to say this back when i first asked?

I'm not misrepping you

lmfao yes you are. your "i'm sick of you asking everyone for evidence! nobody has evidence!" bullshit is a straight up misrep, because i never asked anyone for evidence of anything. i am aware that that's not how the game works. i ask for explanations of the thought process.

As for how you reacted, it wasn't your reactions towards ssbm that have made me suspicious. It's the way in which you reacted to everyone else who felt that ssbm is right. It feels like desperation, trying to land any other playing who a scum read might stick to

Ari, me, though interestingly, way less Salsa, which is odd

yeah, god forbid i have a different opinion on different pushes on my slot, right?

[Datisi]

my issue with scum!salsa is that, like... what the fuck is scum!salsa doing here? scum generally, like, tries to win. i think that everyone here is potentially working towards some sorta wincon for scum!themselves, except for salsa who seems to be all over the place. if whoever has experience with scum!her knows some of her meta and that this fits it, then by all means let me know, but i struggle to see just like, what is she trying to achieve here. and the fact that she was already next in the poe line and we've been mindlessly going down it and it's gotten us nothing but green flips so far is worrying

[Datisi]

I know my alignment so I'm biased, but this seems like a waste of a lim. With the way D1 played out, it is extremely likely scum were on the T3 counterwagon. I know it's impossible both scum bussed because the only unaccounted iv votes are me and Margot, but even from the outside it should seem extremely unlikely. We should be limming in the D1 T3 voters until scum is hit and reassess after.

there's something that makes me uneasy about the "we should be limming in the t3 voters". the fact is that we've been doing that, we killed three people (if you count the vig shot) who were not on the iv wagon, and they all flipped green. and i'm kinda skeptical of this? like, how many green flips does it take for you to get worried about there being deepwolves?

[Datisi]

so who is scum then?

i was about to ask where you are.

i dunno. i'm voting margot because her actions towards me and salsa feel ill-intended. i think if she were to flip red it would mean salsa is probably green, so her partner would be between you/omega. neither of these make perfect sense because pretty much everyone here has Good anti-associates with iv, but gun-to-head i'd now say you're the partner, considering how hard have you two been defending each other, and margot's posts kinda leave her open to having to agree to yeet omega today, should it come to it.

hmm. omega "didn't have to vote iv", ari was arguing with the ic about iv being emotionally manipulative, and margot made that hugeassfucken post against iv. these are all great, but at least one of these interactions is s/s, if not two. i *guess* ari's is the weakest there. but ari/salsa is such a nonsense team? salsa basically boxing herself into having to scumread ari once dats flips green and then just *not* scumreading ari after that feels way too bold / out-there that i kinda don't think she'd do it.

[Datisi]

okay, if some part of you still thinks i'm town, who is scum then?

I already said this

where? all i found is you saying salsa is your top suspect but also that we should slow down. even if that's a scumread, that's still just one

why are you town, aristeia?

[Datisi]

surely your current most confident solve isn't "no kill happened because scum was inactive during the night phase"?

[Datisi]

now i'm thinking of that game where scum actually did fuck up and forgot to input the nightkill... but that was not_mafia. like, surely not.

pedit: do you have a guess based on dayplay?

[Datisi]

keep in mind we're talking a gypyx "normal" here.

i'm assuming there's *something* else in town since 2 ic's + a vig seems like pretty boring town power overall, and i'm sure it accounts for the scum pr we have flipped.

i don't feel like there's much point in mechspec while margot is hiding whatever the hell she's hiding, though. it's basically impossible without that info.

pedit: @ari

[Datisi]

now i'm thinking of that game where scum actually did fuck up and forgot to input the nightkill... but that was not_mafia. like, surely not.

pedit: do you have a guess based on dayplay?

by dayplay salsa/chaos feel the weakest out of the unconfirmeds

so... you think a very weird cross-bus is possible here?

[Datisi]

Maybe Margot should just claim actually, as tomorrow is ELO if we miss today, or MELO if she is a protective that is able to stop a kill. Either way, best to have the claim out before then just in case I think. Too .any reasonable possibilities right now to hold that claim.

UNVOTE:

good call imo.

i'm gonna go do some actual work now, be back in an hour or two.

[Datisi]

I don't think Margot is scum, I'm not interested in considering her slot.

why. why are you so dead sure on margot being town that you're apparently not even interested in *considering* her slot when we've been having townflip after townflip since the end of d1?

if someone wants to accuse me of rolefishing here: yes. yes, i am rolefishing, because if this is something connected to mechanics it needs to get out. and if it's Pure Reads, it needs to get out too.

[Datisi]

Guys, please understand!

Datisi

is

iSo-dIvInG

a thousand paged game and only he is doing it! Rest of us are chilling! Don’t you feel bad for him at all??? How ruthless!

Btw, does MS has

Worst Mafia Player

award? Please tell them to send it to me

what the fuck is your problem?

[Datisi]

It's not rolefishing, I claimed VT already. I just have a strong town read on her.

i know, but she didn't. why, is it because of That One Post or smt else?

[Datisi]

That's exactly what I thought your role was.

i'm sorry, how did you manage to work that out? was there a super obvious crumb i'm missing?

and uh. town backup vigilante. so there's already 3 confirmed towns in the game, two ic's and our vig. (i'm assuming 1-shot.) so you're telling me, once scum manages to do the mechanically correct play and kill the 1-shot vigilante, their reward is... town getting a full vigilante? who is practically another ic since they can confirm themselves once they shoot? and it's most likely gonna result in town getting an extra yeet (since two vig shots = 1 extra yeet)? *and* even if scum knows of the backup vig, and even if they kill them the night after they kill the og vig, they're still fucked because the vig will be able to get the shot off during that night anyway?

i dunno. if this mess is somehow balanced, then scum has a literal metric shit ton of power to counteract the town.

and worse, it still doesn't explain where tf the nightkill went. nobody here is something like bulletproof and sitting on this info for shits and giggles, right?

[Datisi]

salsa, why are you acting like a jester?

[Datisi]

I have a theory about the missed NK, but I don't think it's helpful to discuss.

well, you're not outing any power roles, and it doesn't seem like we have much else to talk about now, so...?

[Datisi]

ok, if someone here is a bp, you are aware that scum already knows you're bp because they tried to shoot you and failed, right? (unless ari is the protective or our protective is purposefully staying silent in which case i will have words post game)

but also like, you're expecting me to believe
3 ic's, one of them is a 1-shot vig
either one of them being some sorta bp OR there being a some sorta protect/block role

AND a backup vigilante who just goes full berserk ungated vigilante once scum manages to kill the gated vig?

nah. nah fam. kyouko has a good point that scum was aware of the fact that vig exists from the beginning. which is why margot's crumbs of "i could reveal my role if i wanted" give even less towncred considering she could have been planning a backup vig claim for a long while. and not like that "crumb" is backup vig specific either. like she could've had multiple of them planned and then decided to go with that once she saw that she won't have to "prove" the fact she's a vig

[Datisi]

i've already claimed vt, but i can claim again, i am not a backup. i believe salsa has also claimed to being vt.

[Datisi]

Also, for what it's worth, the "in your faction" bit was what made me wonder whether there was a mafia aligned vigilante in the game. Likely just a standardised part of role PMs based on others saying it's impossible

no, no, and no. a role-specific backup inherits the role as soon as one role dies, regardless of if the alignment is the same or not. the universal backup is the one that only inherits the same alignment's role. so there's no way that is a part of the "standardized role pm".

now, the reason i'm not going to kill you for this mistake alone is that vig is town only, so there is no way that a scum vig can die anyway. but to now think you're town, i also have to buy that the role pm was written in an unusual and indirect way. sounds more like you saw the sample role pm for univeral backup and decided to parrot it, not realizing they aren't the same.

which, btw, you should become a full vig once any vig dies. you wouldn't become 1-shot, and even if you did, you would have your shot regardless or not kyouko got her shot off. but i'm putting this one as a mistake that is more likely to happen during review, because normal games can be kinda wonky. but yeah.

[Datisi]

I also find it really odd that it hasn't occurred to you that, maybe, the reason my role doesn't explain why Enchant is still alive might be because, shock horror, I'm telling the truth, and the truth of why Enchant is still alive is yet to be revealed?!?!

WHEN. everyone has claimed vt. unless someone is fakeclaiming for shits and giggles, when is this happening.

and please get your facts straight. i was voting you long before you claimed.

[Datisi]

Why wouldn't I have claimed universal backup then?

i don't know. my current assumption is that you wanted to claim backup vigilante, went to uni backup's wiki page, saw the "inherit first pr of your faction, lose any shots used by the original owner" bit, and constructed your "role pm" from that info, while being unaware that uni backup and role-specific backup are different, i.e. that a role-specific backup activates as soon as any of the role die, regardless of alignment and modifier*. (i'm not 100% sure on the latter part, but i think a backup vig would become a full vig if a 1-shot vig died.)

anyway, that was such weird wording for a backup vigilante role pm, but i know that gypyx writes his own role pm's, and he's not a native speaker, so it wouldn't surprise me if the role pm was written clunkily. *however*, then i remembered that gypyx had had a backup in his games before. i rolled town backup roleblocker in mini normal 2180. and this is my role pm from that game:

Town Backup Roleblocker

Welcome ! You are a

Town Backup Roleblocker

If a roleblocker dies, you will become able to each night, target a player, that target will be prevented from taking any actions this night

Your goal is to eliminate every threat to the town, you may find the game thread here

maybe it's foolish to assume that gypyx would keep the consistency of the role pm from almost a year ago, but damn this looks much different than "You will Inherit the first [role] to die in your faction".

[Datisi]

I think Margot's lying?

To confirm Margot, you said your role name is "Town Backup Vigilante"?

what made you think so?

also, @kyouko, everyone has claimed, nobody else is a backup, why were you asking that?

[Datisi]

well. a 4-power joat is more like gypyx's style. also that makes me think ever more that margot's line is overkill, considering kyouko isn't a 1-shot vig, she's 1-shot vig + 3 other things.

[Datisi]

margot's role is overkill*

[Datisi]

kyo, do you genuinely believe that
2 ic's
a 4-power joat who is also conftown since they have a vig shot

and a backup vig that becomes full vig once scum does the MECHANICALLY CORRECT PLAY and shoots the joat

are all town???

[Datisi]

UNVOTE:

[Datisi]

so you know how yesterday we were heading towards a misyeet and then i overturned it and got a scum to scumslip? wasn't that fun

anyway, VOTE: aristeia

ari makes sense as a margot partner + i vaguely remember at some point thinking her read on me was bad faith

salsa does not because it feels to me like margot was genuinely trying to get her yeeted (and margot's post towards salsa is what made me go !!! in the first place so would be kinda sad if salsa was scum)

the two things above^^ will be rechecked at some point tomorrow when i get the strength to reskim day 4, i currently do not have it because it's past 10 pm and uni work is killing me

chaos also kinda makes sense as a margot partner, i agree he would not let margot fuck up the claim *that* bad but also he wasn't super active and there's a chance he simply wasn't around when she claimed but then again, a problem for tomorrow's me

[Datisi]

UNVOTE:

actually i don't want an early lolhammer in case this is wrong, but spiritual vote very much on aristeia

[Datisi]

i lied, i haven't done jack shit today other than laying around, but it's not like we are short on time

ari, convince me it's not you

[Datisi]

chaos, if your point is "ari was townreading margot", i can easily point back at you, so like

[Datisi]

hm. it's interesting seeing salsa bring out the post where ari has a solve that is 0/3. and ari's acting towards margot does maybe remind of her acting towards rce in mbos, but this might be my own confbias.

anyway. on d4 i started reskimming the game because i remembered saying on d1 that i thought ari was a viable iv partner, and i wanted to see why, but then i started feeling ill and had to stop, and *then* margot started openwolfing so i never finished that >_>

getting to it tonight after uni, goddammit

[Datisi]

hm. it's interesting seeing salsa bring out the post where ari has a solve that is 0/3.

What do you mean?

it means her d1 solve of datsi/t3/nm was all town

also guess what i am way too tired to do anything here tonight

tomorrow for sure

>_>

[Datisi]

okay, so i read ari's iso up to my "iv can be partnered with ari" post, and she was pushing all of nm/datsi/t3, which to my memory were the most yeetbaity slots of the game. and they all flipped green, which is kinda a bad look i guess.

one point towards chaos!scum is the fact that i'm not certain scum!margot makes such a huge push against her partner, if the other scum is *also* not deeply nested in the bus.

now, a counter argument to this is that ari was aligning towards voting out both of t3/iv anyway, so that she would be in position to push through t3 on day two, while still having the ability to say "yeah, i totally am not an iv partner, look how i attacked him in front of the ic"

also also, i know iv loves to be distanced against his partners. and margot started scumreading him pretty early on. i think it's reasonable to assume the other scum was, too (and by that, like, i'm pretty sure they did, it just doesn't clear ari for doing that)

day 1 itself makes me want to vote chaos, but ari had such strong conviction that margot was town, it's kind of... odd. but chaos also had the "we're yeeting off wagon until we hit" which if he's scum with margot, lol.

tldr, i don't know why i'm writing any of this out, i'm literally never voting salsa anyway.

[Datisi]

@Datisi, is Ari bold as scum?

i think so, yeah. i know she's generally anti-bus, last game she went all-in on protecting her partner in yelo. i definitely think that defending partner!margot the way she did this game is very within her scumrange.

[Datisi]

chaos, it was the most recent mbos in the mini theme queue, someone linked it already this game.

tomorrow i'm gonna go over times when chaos/ari were absent from thread to see if it makes sense that any of them weren't available to help. and whether it makes any lick of sense for margot to be bussing salsa yesterday.

[Datisi]

salsa, would scum!you be wasting all this effort when you heard me already say i'm never voting you, and ari/chaos are pretty locked on each other?

also no, i'm not impressed by ari's ate stuff. i know she's capable of ateing as scum.

also sorry for my absence x_x i fell asleep very early yesterday. it's the weekend though, so i'll get myself some popcorn later and try to figure out if i wanna keep on with my ari>chaos poe.

[Datisi]

datisi wouldn't have bussed his partner yesterday when almost everyone has her as locktown. even if your argument is that i'm trying to win with Style Points... god no. i'm sick and fucking tired of carrying scumteams. i'd very gladly get bussed and watch from the dead thread.

[Datisi]

finally went through some parts of day 4. not conclusive of anything, since before margot's fuck up with the role pm, chaos posted some ~14 hours earlier, and ari posted some ~6 hours earlier. it's possible neither of them were anywhere close, or that margot was simply acting out on her own, and her partner didn't think about working out the role pm with her because they didn't think she would, like, *do that*.

i'd say that's slightly pointing towards ari, but i won't fool myself into thinking that it's actually a strong point. as much of a control freak i am when it comes to fakeclaiming, i don't think even i would think of figuring out a role pm in advance like that. so i think it's reasonable to assume either of them didn't think of it.

[Datisi]

however, something did catch my eye.

I'm assuming this is claiming BP. This was my theory, although I assumed it was Enchant.

why did you assume enchant was the bulletproof?

[Datisi]

i'd say that's slightly pointing towards ari

Datisi please no

did you... read the rest of that post?

[Datisi]

okay, today is the first day that i'm not feeling *completely* demotivated about this game, so here we go. i started around page ~20 and skimmed from there, mostly to get a sense for the wagons and what the two flipped scum were doing. i'm up to page 42 right now, which is where chaos voted iv. and uh, this fucking game.

votecount 1.11

T3 (3) :

Dwlee99 ; Datisi ; Salsabil Faria

MargotRosa (3) :

innocentvillager ; Mewtaph ; Roden

Not_Mafia (2) :

Not_Mafia ; Datsi

Innocentvillager (2) :

MargotRosa ; Aristeia

Mewtaph (1) :

ssbm_Kyouko

Datsi (1) :

ChaosOmega

Not voting (1) :

T3

If no one's interested in datsi, I'll make my vote useful.

VOTE: innocentvillager

I can't get a good read on T3 or N_M this game (or ever, really), so I'm fine going there as well. Not really into the Margot wagon.

so this is the vc at the time. notice that margot and iv are crossvoting. this is something i genuinely forgot about, just *how much* scum theatre there was between the two of them. scum planned to distance and bus this game, that much is obvious. and i know that's within iv's style, since that's pretty much what we did when we were partners.

however, seeing this vc and vote again, i think chaos's "i would've voted t3 here" is not actually town indicative, for multiple reasons. the first one being that, as someone said, scum knew there was a vig. even if they pushed t3 through here, it's possible a vig would've killed iv for being the counterwagon, which loses that night's result and makes the non-bussing scum look bad. this i much smoother.

the other reason, that i only realized earlier, was that margot was in real danger of getting yeeted on day 1. and i think it's obvious iv wasn't meant to be the endgaming scum - he'd already picked up way too much suspicion i think he'd definitely have been killed at some point, and i'm just not sure he has the stamina for it (no offense iv i luv u), especially considering the game right before this one was a scumgame for him too. so if chaos voted t3, and margot ended up going down... that would've been extremely bad in scum!chaos universe.

and iv was always supposed to go down early. look at the vc, flipped scum + the poe is voting him. which is why i really don't think ari's attacks of iv to roden are clearing. reskimming them, i did get the "this doesn't feel like scum/scum" feel, but knowing it was probably planned from early on that iv has to go down... not clearing.

to be fair, i'm still wondering if my point of "if ari were partners with iv, she'd either go full into the bus or full not vote iv and push t3, not do the weird half and half" is still valid. i really *want* to think it is, but good scumplayers scare me.

ok, going for a walk, hopefully i'll still have motivation to finish looking at this game when i'm back. maybe a more informative analysis can be made in early day 4, when margot was still basically locktown.

[Datisi]

Innocentvillager (3) : MargotRosa ; Aristeia ; ChaosOmega

*crying*

also another thing i forgot to mention in the previous post, margot was hard tonreading t3, so scum wouldn't be able to dogpile onto him anyway.

makes me think if it makes sense to assume that both margot and other scum were not scumreading t3 and letting the town kill themselves there. i'd say it makes sense, but also "one scum is hard pushing t3 while the other is calling him hard town" also isn't a story that doesn't make sense, so uh. tldr i'm still bad at this game.

[Datisi]

also another thing i forgot to mention in the previous post, margot was hard tonreading t3, so scum wouldn't be able to dogpile onto him anyway.

except margot did end up voting him? then unvoting him? not even gonna pretend that i can read into it.

[Datisi]

VOTE: MargotRosa

Backups don't inherit, universal backups do. This is a messed up fake claim, she's probably mafia universal backup, which would inherit.

i really want to say this is tmi. like, i want to say this is scum scrambling to vote their partner who has obviously been caught in a lie.

anyway, reskimming day 4 did not bring much. i think margot's reads leaned slightly to yeeting chaos before ari (1821), but it would be pretty dumb of me to assume that scum is 100% gonna put their own partner as last in the poe here.

gonna read what missed from day 5, then probably head to bed. i'm not happy with this, i really wished i could've figured this out already. but ari and chaos have actually been pretty similar throughout the game, it's annoying.

[Datisi]

there are 4 things i have done this game that I do not do if I am scum

1. i do not trash IVs ate and push him
2. i do not let margot make the most bungled ever
3. i do not let up and stop pushing yesterday
4. i do not paranoia on your alignment


if you think i am scum so be it.

1. i think you know why i can't take this at face value
2. i think that both of you/chaos are knowledgeable enough to know that margot's claim would get her killed. i also think she pasted the role pm on her own.
3. what are you referring to here specifically? push what?
4. err, why not?

[Datisi]

also if i was scum i would have shot kyouko since she is a vig

also this is still true - scum me definitely shoots Kyouko on N2.

why/how did you figure out kyouko was the vigilante?

[Datisi]

there was a wagon on aristeia on day 3, which potentially could be a good source of associate reads... but margot was pretty absent during it, rip. i'll go over it properly tomorrow, at this point i'm really tired and not able to think. i feel like i go between thinking it's ari and thinking it's chaos every time i open this game.

[Datisi]

1. i think you know why i can't take this at face value
2. i think that both of you/chaos are knowledgeable enough to know that margot's claim would get her killed. i also think she pasted the role pm on her own.
3. what are you referring to here specifically? push what?
4. err, why not?

1. sure but you've never seen me trash my partners ever so I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt here.
2. I mean Chaos apparently thinks bulletproof IC is a thing so...
3. I'd push somebody dead, I don't really ever "defer" when I'm scum.
4. Because you're very omgusy and it's much easier to pocket you by making googly eyes at you. If I am paranoid of you it's because I'm actually worried.

1. pretty sure i've something close enough to it that the answer is no.
3. maybe it's me, but i still don't get what this means ._.
4. excuse you, i'm only omgusy towards people whose reads on me show ill intentions

as for 2... i think your point here is bad, because i'm saying it doesn't matter how much knowledge you have about normal games, it's about how much of a micromanaging control freak you are as scum. and even i, a person who usually likes to figure out everything in advance and who as scum routinely has more posts in the scum pt than in the main game, wouldn't have thought about writing margot a sample backup vigilante role pm, because not even i would have thought that she would've done that. and from what i've seen over my years of playing, the vast majority of people are less of a micromanager than i am. so i don't think it's the matter of "this person doesn't have the knowledge to tell margot the claim is bad", it's a matter of "probably nobody thought she would've done that".

however, this is reminding me of what i said earlier in the game. "claim if you're bulletproof, because if you are, scum already knows you are because they shot at you last night". then chaos commented how he thought enchant was the bulletproof, not kyouko. *then* kyouko claimed that she's actually a joat who saved enchant last night... do y'all see my problem here.

[Datisi]

How likely is the universe in which Ari/Datsi is SvS playing for an eliminate one, the other coasts to victory, type situation?

Because otherwise, the pair in my head is one of Ari/Datsi on one side, and Salsa/Datisi on the other, and I don't know that any of these situations are more likely in my head

this is approx the first time when margot posted after ari's wagon took off, even though this was past its peak as chaos already said he felt a bit better about ari, but she was still on 3 votes

and like, i dunno. if ari is scum, this is the partner not knowing whether to defend or bus, so they're sitting on the side not knowing what to do. if chaos is scum, this is scum getting ready to chain things together between ari and datsi, but not wanting to explicitly push it. considering the level of planned theatre, i'd say it's more likely the latter, but i'd be kidding myself if i said i had any certainty in that.

but, skimming forward, kyouko votes datsi in 1534, and it takes margot *less than half an hour* to pile onto that wagon. sigh...

pedit: uh, was that hammer?

[Datisi]

yeah, looks like e-1. i voted you at sod but i unvoted soon after, and i don't think salsa's voted anyone so far today

i'm definitely not ready for end of day, considering i really want to solve this game today. and i still wanna read on and see what made chaos change from going "i want to vote dats/ari, vig the other" to voting salsa at start of d4 (i think? this game has been going on for too long)

enchant, what are your thoughts rn?

[Datisi]

You believe Salsa is town? Yes?

have you not read anything that i have posted in the last day?

[Datisi]

I wouldn't even have Margot claim a PR at all if I were scum with her; I think 2 ICs and a 1 shot vig is plenty of power in a 13p.

I think it shows chaos tmi'd about knowing where the nightkill was?

margot softed pr on day 1, though. did you call margot out once she claimed town backup vig for the excess of town power?

[Datisi]

i think 2 ICs, a vig and a backup vig is already pretty stacked in terms of town power so probably scum forgot to shoot at night?

which leads me back to Salsa/ChaosO

Town backup vigilante

I didn't want to mention it, because it makes scum's kills pretty much auto for the rest of the game, and it also means that if we suspected ssbm, I'm guaranteed to die the night we killed her, and would have just wasted the role

It's useless as soon as you have to claim it

That's exactly what I thought your role was. Can we please lim Salsa now?

nope, neither of you called it out. aaaaaaaaaaa

[Datisi]

I didn't see her soft

if she's scum with you, she probably pointed it out in the scum pt, so.

[Datisi]

ok, but you do get how "if i was scum with margot, i wouldn't have had her claim pr", "oh i didn't see her soft" is not a good defense, right?

[Datisi]

meh, i guess, she could always use the ol reliable "i was baiting"

but "i didn't even see her soft" is not a defense considering she most likely called it out in the scum pt, so saying "i didn't see it, therefore scum!me would've had her claim vt" is meaningless

[Datisi]

enchant, do you wanna actually help us solve or?

[Datisi]

VOTE: Salsa

PoE is Salsa/Ari/Datisi. I think scum have to have been off the iv wagon D1 given that there was a viable town counterwagon and the last 2 votes to hammer iv were himself and the IC. ssbm is claimed vig with no cc, I can't imagine a universe where Margot is scum here, and Enchant is mod-confirmed.

why did you open d4 voting for salsa instead of ari?

[Datisi]

pretty disappointed chaos has basically ignored everything i've posted. will have my vote tomorrow.

[Datisi]

hm. salsa, what made you switch from ari to chaos?

btw, pls no hammer yet. i'm a bit busy at the moment, but there is one more thing i wanna look at. mainly, whether margot was active on the site as a whole when ari got run up on d3, plus her previous reads on ari.

also also, chaos, when margot claimed backup vig, you claimed you thought that was her role. did you really think that 2 ic's + 1-shot vig + something to stop a kill + backup vig is in any universe balanced?

[Datisi]

went to check, and no, she wasn't. can't say she was lurking scum not knowing what to do while her partner was being run up.

however, shortly after kyouko shifts to datsi, margot also drops a vote on datsi, and drops this:

I also think it's worth saying that I feel pretty confident that Ari is Town. She's been Town reading me all game, which is not Town indicative in itself, but read in combo with the following quoted post, it kind of necessitates Scum!Ari deciding at game start that she is going to buddy up to me as a strategy.

which, uh, is the first time in the whole game she's townreading ari. she barely interacted with ari at all, she commented not liking het slot at the beginning of the game when she was doing reads on everyone, but that's pretty much it.

of course, her interactions with chaos up to that point are pretty much nonexistent too, so that's not necessarily scum!indicative for ari. but the fact margot jumped out to hardtownread ari *after* the pressure on ari died down...? feels s/s.

fuck i hate this game

[Datisi]

my vote is currently spiritually on aristeia :/ don't want to go through with it until salsa checks in later. and i'll be able to pop in tomorrow to place a vote almost at any time.

[Datisi]

hm. salsa, what made you switch from ari to chaos?

2164

you do know i can't read your mind on why that post is bad to you, right?

[Datisi]

?

i am seriously asking, i don't understand what's bad about that post. i don't think it outweighs ari being scummy and the may margot played around her on day 3...

[Datisi]

now, correct me if i'm wrong, but i believe that's called a joke?

[Datisi]

One last question, you're not scum, are you?

if i were scum, i'd have gone "yeah i think it's ari/co", voted there, killed enchant, and we'd have been in final 3 like a week ago. so no.

[Datisi]

you wouldn't be the first one

[Datisi]

i've made the decision, i think you're scum. but don't you have a thing going on where you don't want to vote me and would rather self vote or something?

[Datisi]

ugh, y-1

VOTE: ari

going to bed, will sleep for some 8 hours (holy shit a functioning sleep schedule?), after that i'll be around periodically. usually i'm all up for talking out votes, bit we're kinda low on time, wanna make sure it's not a noyeet.

[Datisi]

i don't need any more time, i've done all i can think of. i was just wondering if votes need to be arranged, since the last game i played with ari, she self voted rather than had me vote her. but i guess it doesn't matter that much.

[Datisi]

i've given out my thoughts. those are free to be interacted with, i don't have anything to directly ask you. where did i ghost you? :/ i've answered everything people have asked me i'm p sure.

[Datisi]

well then. salsa, up to you.

i will hammer chaos very close to deadline if she doesn't appear for some reason. still think it's ari, though.

[Datisi]

you haven't done anything for me to townread you and i've talked to you plenty, but alright.

[Datisi]

and i've said why those reasons aren't good enough. i'm arguing bc you're claiming untrue things (e.g. me ghosting you)

i guess i'm wasting my time either way, but yeah. i don't like untrue things being told

[Datisi]

counterpoint: it's not me.

[Datisi]

ngl i was lowkey expecting to walk in here and see that salsa had already voted me, damn that other game lol

[Datisi]

i guess i will have to do the things of checking back if there's any chance salsa is scum here, but similarly that will happen a bit later

pedit: i mean, i would say how obviously different my play is in the two games, there i was protecting all my partners, while here i lolbussed margot because? funny???

[Datisi]

i don't mean that in a mocking way, i mean that in "recency bias is a thing and i don't want to lose this game" way

[Datisi]

i won't even pretend that i did anything this game in the past 2 days

and i had an absolute shit day today so actually playing a 3p lylo is far out of the question

tomorrow is gonna be less busy for me than usual so i'll do something here

[Datisi]

it's called being online and refreshing my egosearch

[Datisi]

i quite literally have the egosearch linked on my browser, just in those rare cases where i don't have an ms tab open, but i still want to feed my addiction to this website

honestly not sure how i survived without it

(i was probably far more productive)

[Datisi]

the "view your posts" button at the top of the page. it lists all of the topics you have ever posted in

[Datisi]

so, uh. lovely weather we're having. (if i don't do something with this game today, i'm probably not gonna have too much time once the week starts, so genuinely forcing myself to do something at some point today lel)

[Datisi]

i have to talk to only datisi rn??? Scam

datisi is currently panic cramming some material that i will have a test on tomorrow, so you realistically don't got anyone to talk to rn

[Datisi]

ftr, idk how much you've read - i was leaning on you being scum over salsa because one of the flipped scum had very slimy associates towards salsa which i did not think to be s/s

i did not have the willpower to recheck them today as i did not actually care about this game and also uni is starting to kick my ass

if you wanna like, say why you scumread me or smt that would be nice of you

[Datisi]

oh yeah, margot was designated to be the deepwolf before i called them out on the day before lylo because her push on salsa and me was utter shite and her roleclaim made no sense so we ended up flipping scum there

considering you know how much utter hatred i have for deepwolfing by this point, i am expecting great things from you

[Datisi]

ok back to last minute studying, see ya in an hour or two

[Datisi]

literally everyone was townlocking margot because she wrote an essay on why innocentvillager is scum or something

also if you're genuinely trying to tell me that town!datisi keeps it together... idk who you been talking to but it ain't me

[Datisi]

fuck me

[Datisi]

i don't wanna

i don't wanna do this again

[Datisi]

koba i fucking hate you, you know that right? yeah? ok

i really need to go back now but yeah

[Datisi]

hi sorry for not being here today but today was hella busy and also i hate endgames

koba, could you point out what you thought was scummy about salsa and how is she showing scum meta or whatever it was

ngl i'm gonna need much more from you if you're town because i can't say i see it rn (not really based on what you've done, moreso your predecessor)

salsa, you like, idk
do whatever you feel is best
self towncase
scumcase omega
draw me something
idk surprise me

[Datisi]

i have other priorities now, try again later

[Datisi]

i typed up a post here, where the fuck did it go, did i close the tab and not notice... ok typing up again

salsa does not because it feels to me like margot was genuinely trying to get her yeeted (and margot's post towards salsa is what made me go !!! in the first place so would be kinda sad if salsa was scum)

@datisi pls quote where this is because i will definitely find progression that proves is not the case

those were posts 1801 and 1803

today was another shite day, mostly due to errands and sleeping for only 4 hours because am stupid. however, tomorrow is a holiday here, which means i'm free for the whole day, which means i'm finally getting to this.

from what i skimmed, salsa, koba did ask you to elaborate on your progressions, which i do think would be useful for me. mostly because a lot of your play during d3/4 was a bit all over the place, so if you can walk me though what was going on through your head, that'd be great.

ok, gonna go catch up on sleep. cheers.

[Datisi]

oh no, those are the posts that made me suspect margot of being scum. they're not necessarily the posts that made me feel like she's genuinely trying to get her yeeted. i did go over that day once she flipped and went away with the same conclusion, but i need to recheck that again, which is not happening now.

[Datisi]

it's 1am and i hate life

let's read

[Datisi]

don't let kyouko down after she carried the fuck out of this game by making that big analysis post ;-; its really good and i sheeped it for a reason

the only thing that case said about salsa was that salsa and gamma had a similar catchup, but iv scumread salsa's while kinda townreading gamma's

like, i know kyouko also cased why me/iv aren't s/s there so whatever if you sheeped it, but i really don't see how that "really good" case solves the game for me

[Datisi]

i have no clue what you just said lmfao

[Datisi]

I'm not understanding this role thing but I also saw

universal backup

, not just

backup

in any of my games so far.

Btw, if

MR

flips red, the partner is likely

Ari

or

CO

here?

Datisi

seems unlikely.
If

MR

flips green, then

CO

is confscum?

UNVOTE: CO

VOTE: MR

Oh thanks!
So

MR

is town?

this is pretty much hard leaked fake progression exposed

this is someone who wants to look good but also wants to take an out

this is not a bad post

salsa, what was going through your head at this point?

Also, I'm not aligned with Margot, I would have coached her on this if I was. Your partner either doesn't have a lot of experience as well or just let you down.

^^^^^^^^ cmon datisi lmao chaos showed intense knowledge of role mechs this is the same as me letting my own partner slip

seriously[/quote
i already talked about my issues w this at some point (2099), but basically

i am aware chaosomega is like, Good With Mech (he's also a member of the nrg) but my issue is that both him (and ari) were somewhat absent from the thread at the time when margot botched the everliving shit out of her claim. which makes me think she was acting on her own, decided to fake a role pm, and then got rekt.

also, a claim of "but chaos would've fakes a role pm for her", who the fuck does that. like, what scum fakes a role pm "in advance" for their buddies in a normal game. i've literally never seen that. and i am a huge control freak as scum. and not even i would've thought about writing my partner a fake role pm in case they decide to do that. which is why i don't find that point hugely convincing - yeah sure chaos wouldn't have done that, but he isn't her

[Datisi]

that is a fucky quote but whatever you get it

[Datisi]

honestly tho i think ive parsed the info presented to me in a very town way and that is like the easiest proof im town but maybe im just like hard biased bc i always think im obvtown when im town and no one else does LOL

not sure i see it or even know exactly what posts you're talking about here

like honestly it comes down to do you *really* belive chaos goes for big brain scum plays to frame like that?

margot does not - margot HATES losing scumbuds unless they are really bringing the team down. I know their meta. I won't reveal their main to win this game(they lied about how many games theyve played tho so xD) but yep!

err, what's the big brain scum plays supposed to be here?

[Datisi]

The town!CO I saw is not similar here which I also can't talk about yet.

was this ever elaborated upon?

[Datisi]

yall were discussing it and its why you guys killed ari - that margot intentionally botched the fakeclaim to make it "look like" it was salsa

i mean, that never was my position so y'know

i'll take another look at chaos's play around margot's claim later

[Datisi]

And my action to just vote salsa is just nigh on laughable from the perspective that im scum and you 2 are town because the gamestate i saw was very plainly easier to just vote you and let salsa mess up in the world im scum.

this is the first thing you've said today that's even mildly convincing

voting salsa feels very stupid for scum!you, especially after (1) salsa started making cases on why i'm scum (2) i literally said i think your slot needs to die

though, you also said that this exact thing would've been your strategy if you had repped into a scum slot, so which is it?

[Datisi]

if it makes it more fun, scum!koba absolutely does the same play here and i fully admit it.

#replacingintotrolldatisi

so, what was the point of these posts?

[Datisi]

Hmm, now I'm much more confused! Thanks

IF,

MR

vs

Datisi

is TvT, then the scum team is

Ari

/

CO

.

UNVOTE: MR

VOTE: CO

why did this post happen

[Datisi]

it was not aimed at you

[Datisi]

So, scum didn’t kill???

Is this team (

Ari

/

CO

) possible? They happen to know many things but as towns, they shouldn’t?

notice like after margot claims though - salsa assumes thats that and margot will likely be townread here - this is the POV of a scum who knows their partner claimed a PR role and is unaware of consequences that will happen.

later when people are not as convinced, salsa dumps a vote onto MR -> then promptly unvotes again once margot unvotes.

this is not how town!salsa operates.

when town salsa has a scumread she keeps that scumread hard and is reluctant to let go of it.


margot was hard arguing the point about the role PM and most definitely does not come off as believing it - Chaos is the first to call out the blunder which you may point out as TMI but why does scum!chaos with scum!margot bother with such an ellaborate play with the IC already tunneled on what in this scenario would be a town!Salsa?

chaos pointed out a very obscure slip - which you'd have to argue they planned randomly while the gamestate was in their favor.
1964

this was BEFORE kyouko pointed out the fact that their role was the vig and why that was a slip.

i hate this post so so much

after margot claimed originally, chaos was like "yeah, exactly what i thought your role was, can we now go and yeet this townie", something you're accusing salsa of doing. i'll need to check salsa's votes/unvotes on margot later.

chaos wasn't the first to call margot out, it was me. by the time he called her out, it was obvious that i have very much picked up on what's going on and that margot was not gonna have a good time. and the pointing out of the slip thing is like, lol, essentially the same thing i said except applied to a specific word of her role pm rather than a whole. if i were to get *really* nitpicky, i'd say it's scum!indicative, because i don't think *anyone ever* thinks of backups and universal backups that differently - sure, role pm's are written that way, but "they don't inherit, the other one does" -- it reads forced as fuck

[Datisi]

im only alive in like 3 games so like my boredom is enough now that im actually going to tryhard this game RIP

i wish i could do this

i'm currently alive in 3 games and it's eating up so much time

people that can play in like 6-8 at the same time amaze me

[Datisi]

<scum always self hammer on busses scum always self hammer on busses>

i actually thought of you once i realized that was a scum self-vote

also you do understand that's not a point in your favour lol

ok that reminds me real talk datisi if you hammered salsa i was gonna be like "yes I won!"

and if u asked me if scum won i'd just be like (: idk, I know I won though as a troll LMAO

i know

[Datisi]

but i admit ive been assuming they 100% favor me which is why ive been making these slight oversights this whole time and assumed that the obvious Town thing happened rather than look for deeper nuance

i am aware, regardless of your own alignment, your wincon is currently the same, so

[Datisi]

i won't be here long either, i have a class tomorrow morning and i'm already down to like 6 and a half hours of sleep left lol

also damn, congrats

[Datisi]

The fact my reasoning wasnt predicated on any push on me or trying to copy chaos' reasoning etc. Is +town
Also fr i just vote you here datisi if scum.
You are pretty easy to frame as scum when youre town and people easily agree. I have whiteknighted you as town b4 so i know

i haven't been misyeeted since june last year, and that misyeet was because d2 had scum/scum competing wagons, i pushed one scum, the other got flipped, and d3 i got accused of being a buddy, so stfu lol

[Datisi]

resuming the deadline

(expired on 2021-11-20 16:24:58)

sigh

okay, gonna go to bed, then tomorrow look at everything i said i was gonna look

while i'm gone, @salsa, could you talk about your read trajectory on chaos? i know you linked a post, but that post was kinda... uh weird, and it showed you having one scumread at the time there were two scum alive, so i'd love if you could revisit that please

[Datisi]

your 1654 is very confusing still.

[Datisi]

so I choose CO over her.

i am interested in the *why* here. why did you start townreading her and scumreading chaos. i can see that you voted him.

[Datisi]

was there literally no other thought that "trying out soemthing else"? what did you learn from it?

[Datisi]

tomorrow at 9pm my time... i'll wake up before then.

i had typed up a koba vote, i had that tab open for like 20 minutes, but i didn't submit it. i am so annoyed at myself, because i don't even know what i'm looking for anymore, when i know i am not about to read other games i am not familiar with. sorry for dragging this out.

[Datisi]

salsa reeks of TMI and positioning while slipping in the points i pointed out and spewed scum by IV

where is salsa being tmi and how is she spewed scum by iv? without kyouko's analysis of "he was treating her/gamma differently", i don't find that convincing.

[Datisi]

like is chaos fucking cursed to get scumread everytime they help bury scum its embarassing

this is very much not what happened there

[Datisi]

where is salsa being tmi

[Datisi]

i went through chaos being scum way too many fucking times
his associates w margot are shit, he was voting iv at the times where everything points at heavy bussing, he treated margot's claim as obviously true, he lowkey slipped at thinking enchant was bp

[Datisi]

i told you salsa TMI with their treatment of Margot on the day she got limmed

link the posts. i went through that day earlier today, i did not see that.

[Datisi]

"its not convincing" yes it fucking is

when scum fucking treat players differently it indicates those players are different alignments

its basic mafia theory jfc

yeah, because scum always treats all townies the same way and all buddies the same way, and totally doesn't have differences there based on the fact they're pulling their read out of their asses

if it was something bigger i'd agree, but it was one post so

[Datisi]

I'm assuming this is claiming BP. This was my theory, although I assumed it was Enchant.

kyouko is claiming 1-shot vig. no kill, she hints at being bp, he makes this post. later on, kyouko claims joat with a save on enchant.

later on, chaos did say he thought enchant had unclaimed parts to his role or something, but meh.

[Datisi]

my solve is currently datsi/NM/T3

dont @me

and honestly when ari goes 0/3 in places like this do you really blame chaos for wanting ari's head especially after margot flipped?

it was never about him wanting ari's head but okay.

[Datisi]

i am in bed and don't feel like actually typing up anything. salsa/gamma can be tvt wrt iv reading them differently because he like townleans one and idkreads the other and it's just two reads in a bigger readpost and i am really not convinced that they HAVE to be opposite alignments and that it's impossible iv was just making up nonsense as he went

[Datisi]

you're trying to talk me out of scumreading chaos for his sri push when i in fact never scumread him for that

i am not sold on dumbtelld being a scumsalsa thing because ari mentioned the possibility of scum not inputting kills, and also how is that margot post a dumbtell? it reads more like her taking the only stance she can after being backed into a corner

sleep time

[Datisi]

probably more than there are in the thread, as i don't care about flipped people's reads unless i am aware of their skill level, and also quoting posts like that iv one in a game where it is confirmed scum was bussing like crazy is lol

[Datisi]

no im trying to get you to see that he has a towny thought

what is townie about his thought process on ari

[Datisi]

i am asking you to fucking present the townie thought process

i'm not saying pushing ari makes him scum jesus christ i'm saying it doesn't make him town, you're claiming it does, fuck present evidence rather than going "but datisi you pushed townies this game and u r town"

[Datisi]

i know how to open his iso. what about those posts is supposed to be good.

[Datisi]

fam, i am acutely aware that the deadline is at 9:25pm central european time

i am just ignoring this game for now because it gives me anxiety and i am currently chilling with my coffee and i am not here thanks

[Datisi]

if either of you manages to guess which game i was just playing, i'll hammer the other (for legal purposes, this is a joke)

salsa, why did you start the game going through my iso, but once koba voted me you didn't start going through chaos's iso and scumcasing him?

[Datisi]

sigh. the issue is to me the counter makes way more sense. like, salsa is more scummy than chaos, sure. i can absolutely give you that. but up to date, whenever i went with "who's more scummy" in lylo, i always ended up hammering town.

i'm gonna look at salsa trying to "counterwagon" for iv. also there is this one post i made in my notes pt that keeps staring at me and i hate it.

[Datisi]

sigh. the issue is to me the counter makes way more sense. like, salsa is more scummy than chaos, sure. i can absolutely give you that. but up to date, whenever i went with "who's more scummy" in lylo, i always ended up hammering town.

i'm gonna look at salsa trying to "counterwagon" for iv. also there is this one post i made in my notes pt that keeps staring at me and i hate it.

[Datisi]

Chaos wasnt even pushing this point fyi thus this isnt a scum olan. He was all over ari->datisi post margot. So that tells you that somehow facts lined up for me when scum clearly didnt plan it if im scum

the issue is that this can also be explained with you/chaos being scum - chaos thought he would have more success swaying salsa to vote me than swaying me to vote salsa and calling that a bus. and you decided to try to sell that anyway, maybe you didn't even see that happened and now have to argue she was bussing.

koba, what are your most recent lylos, as either alignment? i remember we once talked about scum!you in lylo (though i can't find the convo) and i'm interested in seeing something.

[Datisi]

yeah that's what i'm thinking about

no scum lylos since chosen mafia?

[Datisi]

bc after the chosen mafia game, we had a convo and you said you wanted to change your lylo meta because [meta that i'm not sure if i should out] so i was hoping to take a look at things. oh well.

[Datisi]

next time i'm voting first in lylo just so i don't have to go through this bullshit again.

[Datisi]

if you're scum here and i hammer salsa, how much/long will you make fun of me

[Datisi]

i dont know how to fake case townies well as scum btw i kinda just yell theyre scum for shallow reasons until enough people see it and sheep me lol

what posts of your casing here is supposedly out of your scumrange

[Datisi]

it doesn't matter

if we still lose then it does not matter

[Datisi]

i've been off xanax for over 3 weeks now and i'm genuinely thinking about taking one because this is first time in a while that i'm having chest pain from anxiety

[Datisi]

being willing to make assumptions about the game that only favor me in a town me world

i'm currently going over the first bit, why is this out of your scumrange?

[Datisi]

Spoiler: literally the entire dead thread rn

VOTE: dkkoba

i've looked at different day ends way too much. i'm not sure i see scum!salsa. not from associates with flipped scum, not from her play. she seems fuck uninformed and doing things that counter the vast majority of logic i usually see from scum. if she is capable of that shit as scum, i'm impressed. it feels surface level scummy, but thinking about it it doesn't? i dunno, i'm bad at this game.

it's not as clear cut as i wanted it to be, far from it. koba, if you're scum, you gave me enormous doubts here. if you're town, i'm sorry we couldn't get there.

[Datisi]

i'm gonna assume you're not trolling and like, i'm sorry :/

you really did make me reconsider a lot of things and made me go from "it's obv chaos" to "oh god oh fuck i don't actually know"

[Datisi]

did i actually solve this game on page 4. jesus fucking christ i am going to cry.

[Datisi]

We're in a meta where everyone fucking assumes scum are trying to big braim and wifom everytbing when that literally only happens on 1 aspect of scums play at best in games and not the whole game

i usually don't assume scum are big brain, because they usually aren't. but it just made sense after what happened with margot and iv x_x it looked to be one of those games.

[Datisi]

i am also annoyed because before d5 ended, i told myself i was gonna vote salsa if enchant ended up dying, which is why i kept repeating that i am never ever voting salsa ever to see if i die or not. but then he actually commented how he thought chaos was the scum, and that kinda went out the window

sigh

[Datisi]

like, i went over her iso a few times, and so many posts struck me as "does scum seriously fucking say this here" and every time the answer was no

fuck my life

[Datisi]

koba r u mad at me

but if ur trolling me i am never sending you memes again

[Datisi]

a post from my notes pt:

ok time for a bullshit page 4 readslist in order to look at it post game and see if my gut reads were right or shite

{kyo, mew, datsi, dwlee, chaos}
{n_m, ari, t3}
{margot, salsa, iv}

sorry friends. especially sorry to dkkoba, you put phenomenal work into this lylo.

i am so annoyed, because there were so many moments where i thought that no way scum, who is informed of their team and sees them going down, actually posts something that bad. turns out there is a way. and i even looked at an older game and ugh

[Datisi]

it's something where you simply have to know how *every single possible normal role* works, AND have experience in how 13p games are balanced. the way i arrived at margot being scum for the claim is:

- 13p games are generally balanced if there are about 3 confirmable townies in the game total.
- we had 2 innocent children, which are

always

confirmable and scum has no way of blocking them, meaning that that's already 2/3 confirmed townies covered.
- we also have a (

at least

) 1-shot vigilante, who is almost always confirmable.
- scum did have a vig/ic finder flip, but as that is only an investigative role, and is completely unable at stopping the vig/ic from finding, it's not enough scum power to significantly offset the town power.
- THEN we had something block the kill. 1 extra kill from the vigilante + 1 blocked kill from something = an extra yeet for town. which not only means that we have more power than above, it also means that the town power is able to grant the town an extra yeet, which is very strong.
- therefore we likely don't have any more town power, or we have some very very weak town power left.

margot claimed backup vigilante. if her backup vig claim is true:
- first of all, that makes her the 4th confirmable townie in the game. which is already unlikely.
- a backup vigilante becomes a full vigilante after a 1-shot vig dies. that means that town is "rewarded" if their 1-shot vig is killed, especially if they're killed early, which is

horrendous

game design, and any reviewer worth their salt would veto that game. scum getting punished for doing the mechanically correct play of shooting the 1-shot vig is not something that should ever pass review.
- and this makes it somewhat more likely that there will be multiple successful vig shots in the game. which means town is even more likely to be getting extra yeets, since 2 vig shots = 1 extra yeet.

therefore, either gypyx hates scum and wants them to suffer, or margot is lying.

i already explained how she botched claiming her abilities as a "backup vig".

[Datisi]

there is a reason why i usually say that my iq drops in half when i'm town and i enter lylo, and this game is probably the prime example of that. koba deserved much better.

if there is a 1 shot vig and 1 universal back up vig, what will happen after the original vig killed who used their 1 shot before dying?

"universal backup vig" is not a normal role.

i'm 99% sure a backup vigilante would still become a full vigilante even if the 1-shot vig had already fired their shot, but this is something that i would ask the mod or the listmod about because i am not 100% sure.

[Datisi]

universal backup *other role* possible in normal setup games

no, only "universal backup". "universal backup [role]" does not exist.