Mini Normal 2275: Roguelikes - Day 3: Endgame!


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Post Post #1566 (isolation #200) » Fri Jul 15, 2022 1:59 pm

Post by Irrelephant11 »

In post 811, Loftwing wrote:
In post 808, Shoshin wrote:What're your reads, Loft?
Town

Fredrick A Campbell
Confidently Wrong
---
Cat Scratch Fever
BlueBloodedToffee
Lowell
Irrelephant11
MalcolmTucker
Shoshin
Malakittens
---
kennyk
FancyPants
Eiralox
Scum
In post 878, Loftwing wrote:
In post 831, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:Switching votes to self-pres isn't scummy. Not even in the slightest
Now, here's an interesting comment. I would like to hear you justify this remark, BBT.
In post 882, Loftwing wrote:
In post 836, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:Is anyone interested in a Fred or Malcolm wagon?

Fred is preference.
In post 833, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:I can only go off early-ish posts and it's not a read I can say I'm wholly confident in either. Therefore, I'm not entirely comfortable explaining it - not yet anyway.

Ther
If you townread me, then surely you could give a more in-depth explanation than this.
In post 888, Loftwing wrote:
In post 881, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:Loft, can you give me a run down of where you're at?

Regarding the self-pres, if I'm at L-1 and my top town read is the next largest wagon, regardless of my alignment I'm voting the counter wagon to save myself. If I'm town, I can never be as sure on someone else's alignment as I am of my own and if I'm scum, well, I just want to live.
I am in a mega-coroporation stocking various icey things into cold containers.

Less literally, I am currently a little lost as to what to do here. I don't particularly have a preffered direction or goal other than to offer as much as I can in the limited time I have here.

If you're town, then the most you can do is try to provide as much content before your death, as everything you say will come from a town perspective, guarenteed. Self preservation denies this avenue of information to your fellow bretheren, which in turn makes everyone worse off.


In any case, I must return to the land of ice and frost until my lunch rest.
In post 910, Loftwing wrote:
In post 906, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:
In post 836, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:Is anyone interested in a Fred or Malcolm wagon?

Fred is preference.
I would still do this if we can get any traction at all
Why either of them? Neither of their deaths would allow the game to progress quite as much as mine would.
Pretty bland interactions but kind of a lot of them for loft
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Post Post #1567 (isolation #201) » Fri Jul 15, 2022 2:00 pm

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D1 EOD wagons are the strongest treason my mind is suddenly v unsure
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Post Post #1574 (isolation #202) » Fri Jul 15, 2022 4:07 pm

Post by Irrelephant11 »

I also thought about this more and BBT paying close attention to potential role crumbs would make sense if he’s rolecop

And I had another realization but I forget what it is :?
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Post Post #1576 (isolation #203) » Sat Jul 16, 2022 1:17 am

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Because commuter is NAI. It has scum utility to hide from investigations or vigilantes
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Post Post #1577 (isolation #204) » Sat Jul 16, 2022 1:17 am

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BBT what do you think of cw’s case on Lowell?
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Post Post #1586 (isolation #205) » Sat Jul 16, 2022 3:21 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

Dunnstral! You should claim or find scum you’re at E-1 I think. At the very least you’re the main target and basically everyone is willing to vote you except CW

UNVOTE: because Enchant loves to lolhammer
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Post Post #1662 (isolation #206) » Sat Jul 16, 2022 3:02 pm

Post by Irrelephant11 »

I don’t think Shoshin picking Fred over Lowell EOD1 means anything re:Lowell’s alignment. She promised to sheep me and she did. Lowell would have been eliminated D1 if that’s what I picked. Cw you keep ignoring this (Dunn I know you’re new but that context is important imo)
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Post Post #1663 (isolation #207) » Sat Jul 16, 2022 3:03 pm

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I think it’s BBT
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Post Post #1664 (isolation #208) » Sat Jul 16, 2022 3:04 pm

Post by Irrelephant11 »

Do I think it’s BBT??

I do but I’m once again on v/la and trying to pick the elimination what am I dojng
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Post Post #1665 (isolation #209) » Sat Jul 16, 2022 3:05 pm

Post by Irrelephant11 »

CW I think you’re townreading BBT because you occupy the same spot in the game for the same reasons, and you’re town; therefore BBT is town. But that’s not how that works. You’ve been very pro-scum. Someone in the same position as you is v likely to be scum
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Post Post #1666 (isolation #210) » Sat Jul 16, 2022 3:06 pm

Post by Irrelephant11 »

I know because I just repped out of a game where I kept defending a scum because we were playing v similar. Except…. I was just playing bad. And the mafia was happy we matched
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Post Post #1667 (isolation #211) » Sat Jul 16, 2022 3:10 pm

Post by Irrelephant11 »

In post 1615, Dunnstral wrote:
In post 1575, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:Let's not go down silly rabbit holes.

I'm town. Irrelephant, why wouldn't I town read someone for potentially being Commuter?
Because you haven't in the past. Did you know that all of your posting history in games is saved on this site?

Subject: Mini Normal 2009: Day 6
BlueBloodedToffee wrote:I mean, Tex could quite easily be scum commuter so we should probably just lynch her and not let her survive on a claim alone.
VOTE: BlueBloodedToffee
I think this is pretty damning. BBT “townread” loftwing for crumbing commuter. Even after years w/o playing it’s not likely BBT just decided that Commuter is a town role. I’m also coming back from a years long hiatus. I have the same expectations as I did back then (which are sometimes wrong). BBT has the opposite expectations as he did back then? Doubt it.


I’m just now realizing though that BBT wouldn’t have had to “look” for a crumb from loftwing if scum so my point about him being a role cop is slightly less impactful in retrospect
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Post Post #1668 (isolation #212) » Sat Jul 16, 2022 3:11 pm

Post by Irrelephant11 »

I’m flipping back and forth between feeling like a mad genius and an idiot
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Post Post #1669 (isolation #213) » Sat Jul 16, 2022 3:12 pm

Post by Irrelephant11 »

Maybe I just want vig to shoot bbt. As I’m on v/la idk I have time to make this case strongly enough
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Post Post #1670 (isolation #214) » Sat Jul 16, 2022 3:13 pm

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Vig make your own choices obv. I still don’t think it’s Lowell
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Post Post #1671 (isolation #215) » Sat Jul 16, 2022 3:13 pm

Post by Irrelephant11 »

Dunn is indeed p towny not sure I want that flip gahhhh
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Post Post #1680 (isolation #216) » Sat Jul 16, 2022 3:24 pm

Post by Irrelephant11 »

No but I just realized & pointed out that my “looking for a commuter” point is dumb. Scum!BBT wasn’t looking for loft’s role at all. Because loft was scum. So the only relevant question now is “did BBT really townread loft for a commuter crumb”
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Post Post #1681 (isolation #217) » Sat Jul 16, 2022 3:24 pm

Post by Irrelephant11 »

In post 1679, Confidently Wrong wrote:viewtopic.php?f=11&t=89584&user_select[]=23899

reread the recent game I finished with BBT and the above string of posts is now closer to town than scum because it is present in their townplay.
I think the link is broken
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Post Post #1684 (isolation #218) » Sat Jul 16, 2022 3:26 pm

Post by Irrelephant11 »

Is it scummy that BBT didn’t notice my point made no sense?

Idk I drove six hours today maybe I’ll retract all of this tomorrow
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Post Post #1752 (isolation #219) » Sun Jul 17, 2022 2:29 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

If Lowell gets eliminated and flips green you’re getting bogged, you know that right CW?
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Post Post #1753 (isolation #220) » Sun Jul 17, 2022 2:30 am

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vigged*
lol autocorrect
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Post Post #1758 (isolation #221) » Sun Jul 17, 2022 3:15 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

In post 1104, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:
In post 12, Loftwing wrote:VOTE: Fancy Pants

(you're going to) Die, Scum! (But thankfully I have an escape from this planet with my rocket ship!)
I thought this was a soft that they were a Commuter. So. Yeah.
It is so weird that at start of D2 BBT is saying:

- I thought loftwing was town so I started a wagon on Fred
- the reason I thought loftwing was town was because I thought loftwing was a commuter (Dunn has pointed out how this contradicts how town!bbt thinks
- LOFTWING CLAIMED SOMETHING OTHER THAN COMMUTER AND I STILL LED A WAGON ON FRED

(Caps for emphasis)

CW what is towny about this? Can’t BBT’s choice to vote out Fred over Lowell just be a way to look towny by being audacious? Like the scum motivation to lead a wagon on town instead of sheeting a wagon on town is it looks townier
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Post Post #1759 (isolation #222) » Sun Jul 17, 2022 3:15 am

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Wow look at us playing mafia after like a week of sitting on our hands lol
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Post Post #1761 (isolation #223) » Sun Jul 17, 2022 3:25 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

In post 922, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:Scum can be neighbourizer, but as you say, it's usually town aligned.

I see no town reasons for hiding the rest of the claim now. Also, unless the other ability is very specific, my town read on Loft is not as strong.

Either way, can we not do Loft today? Fred or Malcolm are juicy, no? Also, Fred jumping on the Loft wagon as his name starts being spoken about as a potential elim looks fishy, no?
Oh I’m remembering wrong dangit. BBT thought the ~mysterious~ part of loft’s role was a commuter. Blah I probably shouldn’t lead the elimination today as I’m not focused enough and it’s hard to core reference things on mobile
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Post Post #1763 (isolation #224) » Sun Jul 17, 2022 3:27 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

Still think it’s scummy that BBT opened D2 like “well haha oops I thought loft was town because commuters are always town” as if 4 years of not playing would somehow add the thought “commuters are always town” to BBT’s brain

Petit: read the post above yours
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Post Post #1764 (isolation #225) » Sun Jul 17, 2022 3:37 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

TIL BBT and I have won a game together as town before lol
viewtopic.php?f=53&t=76996
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Post Post #1768 (isolation #226) » Sun Jul 17, 2022 3:44 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

In post 1513, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:I'd vote out the Kenny slot before a replacement is even found I'm that confident he is scum
BBT can you go over your scumread of Kenny and whatever read you have on CW?
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Post Post #1775 (isolation #227) » Sun Jul 17, 2022 3:56 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

In post 819, Confidently Wrong wrote:Good morning i slept all day

The people tunneling on loftwing need to stop when scum eira is right there.

I also am untownlocking irrelephant until they can explain where their mind went from Eira to Loftwing - I did not feel good about the last few pages and how they treated certain slots suddenly.
cw what happened that made you untownlock me
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Post Post #1783 (isolation #228) » Sun Jul 17, 2022 4:16 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

In post 1612, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:I'm stunned you think Kenny is town CW
You wrote this based on an early game scumread you hadn’t thought about since d1?

I see that you’re now saying Kenny could be town, I’m trying to understand the basis for what seemed like a very very strong scumread on Kenny that you had until Dunn repped in. To understand your mindset
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Post Post #1786 (isolation #229) » Sun Jul 17, 2022 4:18 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

In post 1782, Confidently Wrong wrote:
In post 1775, Irrelephant11 wrote:
In post 819, Confidently Wrong wrote:Good morning i slept all day

The people tunneling on loftwing need to stop when scum eira is right there.

I also am untownlocking irrelephant until they can explain where their mind went from Eira to Loftwing - I did not feel good about the last few pages and how they treated certain slots suddenly.
cw what happened that made you untownlock me
bc I was extremely tunneled on eira scum at the time and thought you were teamed with them. I thought that much was obvious from the post and the implication of it. Like.. the explaintion is in the post actually now that I reread it ... so not sure why ask me when its right there.
Okay fair, that’s not how I read it at first but you’re right
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Post Post #1792 (isolation #230) » Sun Jul 17, 2022 4:26 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

I’ve posted why CSF would die in any scum world. General towniness and/or guessing at TPR (they were sorta right if so)
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Post Post #1793 (isolation #231) » Sun Jul 17, 2022 4:28 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

I think some of my early Kenny scumread might have been a result of a language barrier but fwiw dunn has not towntold so strongly it could never come from scum. He’s posted like a dozen times and was aware he was at E-1 and needed to perform or lose if scum
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Post Post #1798 (isolation #232) » Sun Jul 17, 2022 4:34 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

CSF wasn’t vanilla though
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Post Post #1800 (isolation #233) » Sun Jul 17, 2022 4:36 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

Lowell definitely continued to push loft’s elimination *even though* momentum was shifting away from loft/the wagon was stalling. Like at one point on D1 scum!Lowell had to think “I’m bussing no matter what! I WILL kill my teammate even if an easy alternative exists!!”
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Post Post #1801 (isolation #234) » Sun Jul 17, 2022 4:39 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

Well scratch the “easy alternative” part because I guess Lowell was the alternative? Which is one of CW’s points.

You know what nothing tried nothing gained VOTE: Lowell
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Post Post #1802 (isolation #235) » Sun Jul 17, 2022 4:44 am

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Wait but his D2 is so good ahhhhhhh I’m spinning in circles make it stop
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Post Post #1825 (isolation #236) » Sun Jul 17, 2022 8:07 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

VOTE: BBT

Lowell I’m spinning out, yes. But honest question - do you still scumread the Kenny slot? I felt confident it was Kenny and now I don’t and I feel lost. My current best guess is BBT who, when he couldn’t get the Kenny miselim anymore, started “sorting”
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Post Post #1827 (isolation #237) » Sun Jul 17, 2022 8:08 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

If I’m scum here I let the PoE play out, I would win
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Post Post #1831 (isolation #238) » Sun Jul 17, 2022 8:16 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

In post 1829, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:
In post 1825, Irrelephant11 wrote:VOTE: BBT

Lowell I’m spinning out, yes. But honest question - do you still scumread the Kenny slot? I felt confident it was Kenny and now I don’t and I feel lost. My current best guess is BBT who, when he couldn’t get the Kenny miselim anymore, started “sorting”
What are you doing?
Spinning out
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Post Post #1862 (isolation #239) » Sun Jul 17, 2022 1:29 pm

Post by Irrelephant11 »

Lowell pretend you think BBT’s tone is null instead of towny and tell me how you read his alignment and why

Consider it an exercise in helping me get my head on straight
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Post Post #1945 (isolation #240) » Mon Jul 18, 2022 9:35 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

In post 1941, MalcolmTucker wrote:One of my fundamental contentions, above all else, is I struggle to believe no scum came to Loftwing's defence on D1 at all. Gamma/Lowell revolves around all the scum basically scumreading each other in a way that was pretty much quite disastrous early on given we'd have basically had two scum as competing wagons for a while. This remains the primary reason I think one of CW/BBT is likely to be scum at this point. I know scum can distance and bus but if anything I'd argue that makes one of those two more likely to be scum in light of Gamma's flip - a team where there's a lot of distancing going on makes sense if there's also a proactive scum team member ardently trying to clear their buddy too.
This is where I’m at but I think it’s BBT.
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Post Post #1946 (isolation #241) » Mon Jul 18, 2022 9:39 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

I think cw has posted so much that they have 300 extremely scummy posts. But also 500 very towny ones (don’t @ me about the math)

BBT before today’s Kenny elim fell apart had about 3 very towny posts and is the main reason loftwing didn’t die.

I too read BBT’s tone as town, it seems we all do (and who townreads cw’s tone? Not me, it’s so unpleasant sometimes) - but what has BBT accomplished? Getting Fred elimmed with the singular post of depth in his entire ISO (the Fred case) and avoiding saying anything of note D2 when Gamma was outed by a PR
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Post Post #1952 (isolation #242) » Mon Jul 18, 2022 9:49 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

Yes. Early bussing is less likely in 13p normal than in an open setup, mountainous, or a 9p normal. Too many unknown TPRs
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Post Post #1955 (isolation #243) » Mon Jul 18, 2022 9:50 am

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In a few rare scenarios, you could lose mechanically if you kill your own scum team too fast
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Post Post #1963 (isolation #244) » Mon Jul 18, 2022 9:58 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

In post 933, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:Fred;

This was the first post that caught my attention. The LAMIST post, give three town reads. Extremely easy for scum to do given the extra information they have - three scum reads would be better to create actual content, no?

The random push on the LHF. I get this to an extent, it's early game so push the low posters for content. , though continues this push further, now it becomes a 'genuine push' as opposed to a low content push and is where I start to dislike it. This is the first time he sheeps CW.

His fascination with Eira not voting anyone. This continues for quite some time and yet he doesn't apply this to other players - like Malcolm.

He votes Eira. Sheeping CW (again) and Irrelephant. Now, as scum, this is a great way to go by unnoticed right? Just do what the loudest, widest town read players do and you get no hassle. He very much goes with the flow of the thread and I'm not sure I've seen any originality from him at all?

OK, some explanation for the Eira vote. Fascination with the no voting (again) and given it seems so important to him, why has he not applied the same thinking to Malcolm? I mean, the first paragraph is a narrative of what happened and doesn't actually indicate why he thinks Eira is scum. The whole post has a lot of words but doesn't actually say why what Eira has done is scummy.

Eira wagon; Eiralox (5): Confidently Wrong, Irrelephant11, Fredrick A Campbell, Cat Scratch Fever, Loftwing

Is that all town? Seems unlikely.

LAMIST, don't anybody dare hammer my scumread!

He is first to jump off the Eira wagon though, which gives me some pause. It is, though, after Irrelephant mentions he has lost his Shoshin and Mala reads. pre-emptively sheeping by voting Mala.

Random vote on Lowell. Literally, aside from talking about low content posters, this has come from nowhere. Or has it? In Irrelephant says that Mala is town...and just like that, Fred backs off Mala. Not only does he back off Mala, he again chooses to go for the LHF. We're now 31 pages into the game by the way.

A horrific explanation for the shift in votes.

Why is he asking why Loft is town? Angling to join the wagon? He has shown no previous interest in this player.

Declares intent to hammer Loft? WHAT? Where did this come from? After some talk about Fred possibly being scum he speeds up his 'timer' for hammering Loft.

Can anyone guess who recently joined the Loft push before Fred decided it was good for him, too? You get two guesses.
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It's Irrelephant (again!)


Justification for the Loft vote. It's simply appalling that this late into the game, all of Fred's reads amount to 'but they're not doing anything.' He has sheeped either CW or Irrelephant the entire game.
This is BBT’s towniest post and also one of the top ten pro-scum posts this game
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Post Post #1966 (isolation #245) » Mon Jul 18, 2022 10:07 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

Lol probably. I get why people want you dead. I’ve spent all game shoving down paranoia about you. Maybe I’m the one being dumb. But I don’t think you endgame anyway so shrug
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Post Post #1984 (isolation #246) » Mon Jul 18, 2022 1:21 pm

Post by Irrelephant11 »

In post 1981, MalcolmTucker wrote:On the one hand CW's sudden push of BBT could be seen as very opportunistic given it's likely their most viable route to escape elimination.

On the other hand, I feel like CW would have known this a while back and the push on Lowell had rather evidently been going nowhere for a while. Shfiting onto BBT - or at least away from Lowell - at an earlier opportunity should have surely been a more advantageous move for scum.
One of them is certainly exploring for a viable way out this game day
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Post Post #1989 (isolation #247) » Mon Jul 18, 2022 3:05 pm

Post by Irrelephant11 »

Last kill was vig kill. Mafia missed or holstered
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Post Post #2008 (isolation #248) » Mon Jul 18, 2022 10:48 pm

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I’d still vote Dunn
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Post Post #2009 (isolation #249) » Mon Jul 18, 2022 10:49 pm

Post by Irrelephant11 »

The point about avoiding accidental PR hunting is a good one, though I’m currently leaning BBT scum more, mainly for how D1 went down
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Post Post #2010 (isolation #250) » Mon Jul 18, 2022 10:51 pm

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I can understand why Lowell thinks I’m possible scum now too, if he thinks I’m PR hunting
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Post Post #2015 (isolation #251) » Tue Jul 19, 2022 3:35 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

I think Lowell being concerned about PR hunting might be a townslip? Scum has to no kill or shoot the tracker tonight, else could lose the game outright by being caught/generating another inno. Therefore the vig will live to tomorrow. Therefore the vig will get 2 more kills in before endgame. Between eliminations and vig shots, town gets 4 more kills (scum get 0-2). Therefore it hardly matters if they’re outed, because the vig staying secret doesn’t get them any extra shots. Unless we’re worried the scum is bold enough to shoot in the order vig > tracker and risk getting caught. But if the last scum is bold enough to shoot someone other than the tracker, they’re probably in a good enough position to win either way
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Post Post #2016 (isolation #252) » Tue Jul 19, 2022 3:36 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

Anyway point being: PR outing doesn’t help scum here, but being afraid that it does is towny
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Post Post #2018 (isolation #253) » Tue Jul 19, 2022 6:27 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

It helps deepscum. I don’t think it helps limpool scum because they need the tracker dead first
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Post Post #2020 (isolation #254) » Tue Jul 19, 2022 6:32 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

Because loftwing was already voting lowell
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Post Post #2022 (isolation #255) » Tue Jul 19, 2022 6:35 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

I think Fred died instead of loft for two reasons:
- scum were pushing Lowell and Fred as loft alternatives
- I picked Fred to die over Lowell when everyone was appealing to me for my & shoshin’s votes

Loft was the scum helping the Lowell wagon
Fred wagon having scum before I joined means it’s you, cw, or Lowell

Lowell is v towny for a million reasons we’ve gone over a bunch

Therefore: I want to lim you or cw. I pick you because I think cw has been sorting and you’ve been hiding
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Post Post #2024 (isolation #256) » Tue Jul 19, 2022 6:40 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

That’s the main reason I find you scummy but there are other reasons:

- After Kenny, the worst associatives with flipped scum
- When dunnstral replaced in, you’re “I’m so confident Kenny is scum I don’t need to hear from the replacement” went away and you instead said it was a good entrance because other people said so
- You seem as aimless as me but without the panic
- Refusal to play D2 after Shoshin was caught (no desire to out reads in case you were NKed?)
- Over-explained why you townread loft when no one asked
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Post Post #2028 (isolation #257) » Tue Jul 19, 2022 6:45 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

In post 1054, KittyTacky wrote:
Flavor 1.5Image
Death

When you reach zero hit points, you die. Death is also possible when you have nonzero hit points, by several methods of instadeath or delayed instadeath. You lose all the progress you made in that game, and you may have your possessions identified, see your attributes at the time of death (as well as a single post-mortem attribute), see a list of vanquished creatures, see a list of monsters genocided, and see which official conducts you have adhered to.

Dying may also create a bones file.

A particularly spectacular character death, especially of a character that is was well on the way to ascension, is often called a splat. Watching splats (live or on Splat TV) is a part of the fun of social NetHack.


Source: NetHackWiki

Flip 1.5
Fredrick A Campbell
(7): BlueBloodedToffee, Eiralox, Lowell, Confidently Wrong, Irrelephant11, FancyPants, Shoshin
[HAMMER!]

Lowell
(2): Cat Scratch Fever, Loftwing
Loftwing
(1): Fredrick A Campbell
Eiralox
(1): kennyk
BlueBloodedToffee
(1): Malakittens
Not Voting
(1): MalcolmTucker

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to eliminate.

Fredrick A Campbell
has been eliminated!

Fredrick A Campbell's role was
Town 1-Shot Bulletproof
!
[/area]

Night 1 ends in (expired on 2022-07-06 11:17:00).
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Post Post #2030 (isolation #258) » Tue Jul 19, 2022 6:48 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

It was the primary wagon before I joined it, and only one scum joined after me. It saved a scum’s life so I think two scum were likely on it
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Post Post #2032 (isolation #259) » Tue Jul 19, 2022 6:54 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

Why would the speed of it make it less likely to have a scum? You or cw as scum didn’t want to follow your teammate onto Lowell but wanted a miselim. the wagon quickly gained momentum as the result of either your wordy case or cw/hopping on and making it viable

If your point is that it could still be dunnstral I haven’t ruled that out. But given the scum PR is technically a mystery I am trying to hit scum asap, and I’m currently thinking you’re more likely than dunn
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Post Post #2033 (isolation #260) » Tue Jul 19, 2022 6:55 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

Though dunnstral’s silence is kinda scummy
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Post Post #2035 (isolation #261) » Tue Jul 19, 2022 6:59 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

It couldve been a thing but it… wasn’t. Scum didn’t follow loft onto Lowell. We know this for a fact. This means third scum
A. Did nothing really
B. Voted for Fred
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Post Post #2038 (isolation #262) » Tue Jul 19, 2022 7:05 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

Oh yeah and the “I townread a commuter crumb because leaving MS and coming back made me change my mind and think commuters are always town” thing that seems p unlikely to be true

Pedit @BBT: in a world where scum does nothing I don’t think Fred becomes the leading wagon so fast
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Post Post #2039 (isolation #263) » Tue Jul 19, 2022 7:06 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

Sigh

We’re eliminated dunnstral today aren’t we
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Post Post #2041 (isolation #264) » Tue Jul 19, 2022 7:06 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

*eliminating
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Post Post #2042 (isolation #265) » Tue Jul 19, 2022 7:07 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

In post 2040, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:I didn't see scum softing something like that in advance.
This is actually towny
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Post Post #2043 (isolation #266) » Tue Jul 19, 2022 7:07 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

Or like, it’s a good point that maybe comes from town

BBT why would revealing reads before N2 be bad? If you die don’t you want town to know your thoughts
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Post Post #2045 (isolation #267) » Tue Jul 19, 2022 7:11 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

Do you think it’s cw or dunnstral
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Post Post #2050 (isolation #268) » Tue Jul 19, 2022 7:18 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

If 4 players really really want CW let me not be the pocketed idiot saving scum!cw from elimination. They’re smart enough to know tunneling Lowell until right before deadline looks towny and could make endgame slightly more possible. Still think they’re just bad town though.

My current lim preference is BBT/Dunn (dunn’s quietness and BBT’s convo with me here have them about equal) >>> CW >> Lowell >>>>>>>>>>>> Malcolm >> Eira > enchant


Pedit: woah lots of posts
I misread 1631 as only saying “I thought only town could be a commuter so a scum would never soft such a thing”. What you were actually saying makes much more sense
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Post Post #2086 (isolation #269) » Tue Jul 19, 2022 9:50 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

In post 2083, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:What is the current VC?
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Post Post #2136 (isolation #270) » Tue Jul 19, 2022 10:46 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

In post 2128, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:Not gonna lie, probably shooting Irrelephant
I don’t swear but eff off. The entire town wants cw/Dunn dead. Don’t play hero, I’d be so pissed if you made a scum win possible when everyone but you has a big enough townbin to win
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Post Post #2146 (isolation #271) » Tue Jul 19, 2022 11:15 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

In post 2137, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:Something about Irrelephant town reading Shoshin and then not questioning CWs town read of Shoshin despite saying no-one should be able to read them without meta doesn't sit right with me.
I thought they probably had meta experience??
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Post Post #2148 (isolation #272) » Tue Jul 19, 2022 11:17 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

I thought they had meta experience and was right - everyone with meta experience townread Shoshin for, like, playing at all
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Post Post #2151 (isolation #273) » Tue Jul 19, 2022 11:20 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

I can link you about 7 games where that’s exactly how I treated Shoshin d1
Including one where I was wrong and she wasn’t town, she was 3P

Like sure this is our song and dance and we’d perform it as scum too but don’t act like you know better than the entire rest of the pl how I’d treat Shoshin here d1 if I’m town and she shows and and plays in ways most people consider weird. It had all the hallmarks of one of our t/t games until it didn’t
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Post Post #2154 (isolation #274) » Tue Jul 19, 2022 11:23 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

VOTE: dunnstral

I prefer this to cw, ironically bbt has convinced me the flash wagon on Fred could possibly all be townies, and dunnstral’s entrance followed by shutting up feels like scum who thought they’d done enough to save themselves and didn’t want to mess it up by sticking around
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Post Post #2155 (isolation #275) » Tue Jul 19, 2022 11:24 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

I thought cw was the most likely vig, followed by Malcolm.

I think you’ll find I’ve led the insanity today, BBT, not followed it. If you’re going to scumread me do it for the right reasons
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Post Post #2158 (isolation #276) » Tue Jul 19, 2022 11:28 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

In post 2156, Confidently Wrong wrote:the thing I'm struggling with from my own point of view is that for shoshin to perform this way I feel they needed to be coached at least somewhat.
I think she put in extra effort because I’m in the game. I’ve completely tricked her as scum before so she wanted to get me back, competitive spirit style
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Post Post #2160 (isolation #277) » Tue Jul 19, 2022 11:29 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

In post 2157, Confidently Wrong wrote:
In post 2155, Irrelephant11 wrote:I thought cw was the most likely vig, followed by Malcolm.

I think you’ll find I’ve led the insanity today, BBT, not followed it. If you’re going to scumread me do it for the right reasons
i would have never shot loftwing or mala LOL
I didn’t think too hard about who the vig was I just let the “eira is vig” stuff function as WIFOM
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Post Post #2165 (isolation #278) » Tue Jul 19, 2022 11:35 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

In post 2159, Confidently Wrong wrote:
In post 5, Irrelephant11 wrote:- Narrative-ization: when I perceive that someone is inserting a narrative to someone else's words & actions that I don't think is there

- Voting for town: especially more than once

- Unreasonableness: Being less willing to hear me out than I would normally expect a person to be

- AtE: especially to do anything other than defend oneself
irrelephant im confused why you weren't hard shoving me, I am doing my due dilligence and saw you post in a thread named "what do you deem scummy" and thought I might research rq , because i actually hadn't meta dived you. can you just explain, rq. bc I am trying to find out *how* shoshin was able to post how they did most of d1.
What’s your question? How did Shoshin replicate enough of her town play to trick those who know her meta (answer: basically just repeating the script that’s gotten me to townread her in the past)

Why didn’t I scumread you? I thought your effort was extremely towny, and also I actively shoved down paranoia about you because I wanted to work with the talkative player/knew a vig could get you without me having to go down the ugly endurance fest known as scumreading you
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Post Post #2167 (isolation #279) » Tue Jul 19, 2022 11:37 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

In post 2163, Confidently Wrong wrote:Subject: Micro 876: Chain of Command [Ended]
Shoshin wrote:I hate playing scum. In the future I don't think I'm going to play the scum games out. Expect replacements.
oh in case anyone doubts the fact that shoshin hard broke meta this game lmfao i am looking thru an old game for research...
She’s been reprimanded for actually doing this and also has told me she wants to see if she can trick me. The rep out should have been a big hint but I didn’t want to assume a trust tell scenario. Actually her repping out basically clears me tbh
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Post Post #2168 (isolation #280) » Tue Jul 19, 2022 11:38 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

The one scenario she doesn’t replace out this game is with me, one of her favorite people to play mafia with and someone who would willingly write her posts for her
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Post Post #2170 (isolation #281) » Tue Jul 19, 2022 11:39 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

I’ve got like 5 more minutes before I have to log off for a bunch of hours
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Post Post #2175 (isolation #282) » Tue Jul 19, 2022 11:44 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

Oh wait I can die

BBT is cleared so there’s still a four person town core

If eira/Malcolm/enchant/BBT are all considered towncore I’m fine dying
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Post Post #2178 (isolation #283) » Tue Jul 19, 2022 2:43 pm

Post by Irrelephant11 »

I’m kinda glad I’m out of the towncore I do not want to have the responsibility of finding a deep wolf if cw and dunnstral are town.

@dunnstral the easy elimination is definitely cw at this point. Almost everyone wants that elim more except me now. Like I said maybe I’m dumb and pocketed but cw’s anger about getting flipped here feels deserved based on play. Dunnstral is unimpressive and Kenny always felt like scum. Just making my best guess but knowing I’m getting vigged really takes the pressure off
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Post Post #2179 (isolation #284) » Tue Jul 19, 2022 2:44 pm

Post by Irrelephant11 »

I’ll vote anyone enchant + BBT want me to
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Post Post #2234 (isolation #285) » Wed Jul 20, 2022 7:39 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

In post 2233, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:I was never ever shooting irrelephant either by the way.

I just wanted a bit of fun but I also thought I might be able to gauge some reactions from it.
Lol I was going to ask you this. I think you played well btw. Your night play made up for your day play

Fun game! Feel pretty good about my play overall. I think I would have caught Shoshin eventually but I let a sense of “she’s too valuable as town for me to allow her to be eliminated” cloud my judgment.

@dunnstral good entrance! You has basically no chance to win but with a shorter timer on the day phase you might have shown up to D4
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Post Post #2235 (isolation #286) » Wed Jul 20, 2022 7:44 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

In post 2212, KittyTacky wrote:
My thoughts: Mafia got creamed because vig and tracker were both skilled and lucky. I shouldn't have made the setup so swingy. Oh well. It was my first game. Feedback?
Compulsive vig is always gonna be swingy but imo in a fun way. I liked the setup, though idk maybe a little townsided? Hard to say, since a scum flip before D2 helps town a LOT regardless of setup.

Having votecounts a bit more often would have been nice. For example I know some mods post
Votecount:
every so often and then edit the votecount in later, which is really helpful for being able to look back and reread previous game days.
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