Mini Normal 2279: VGSR - GAME OVER

[DeltaWave]

I haven't played a game since 2015. Back then you could L-word people.

Please advise how to make your vote look cool like that so I can call an emergency meeting to vote out those who are sus

[DeltaWave]

oh i was asking if you had/have a feeling because i might have had/currently have a feeling

but not alignment related, so! more a wondering aloud

what does this mean

[DeltaWave]

i would rather this not continue to detract from us finding mafias

This has big "how do you do fellow kids" energy

VOTE: Inutile

[DeltaWave]

i would rather this not continue to detract from us finding mafias

This has big "how do you do fellow kids" energy

VOTE: Inutile

trying to see if there’s traction?

"let's find the mafias guys! we're all in it together"

you seem nervous

[DeltaWave]

i would rather this not continue to detract from us finding mafias

This has big "how do you do fellow kids" energy

VOTE: Inutile

What do you think of the rest of its posts?

frankly most of it confuses me and it seems like lots of weird rationalizations. unless this user is normally on edge all the time, it looks bad

[DeltaWave]

but yes i would like to find the mafias i do not really get what you’re saying

yeah that's the point of the game. the problem is that it's sus imo to try too hard to look town

[DeltaWave]

Hmm...I suppose that's fair. But I'm not so sure that "looks bad" is the same as "looks scummy." For instance, I think it looks bad that you're shading Inutile for superficial reasons. But do you think that's scummy?

woahhh an early vote isn't supported by a novel's worth of reasons, stop the presses

inutile - I like Ausuka for some reason. hoppip is being somewhat sus. not sure what to make of the rest of it but i'll have a better opinion tomorrow probably

[DeltaWave]

I sus DeltaWave for this, and I think their delayed omgus style interaction with hoppip (83) also is mafia.

VOTE: DeltaWave

this is the kind of nonsensical thing that makes you read as town tbh

[DeltaWave]

I sus DeltaWave for this, and I think their delayed omgus style interaction with hoppip (83) also is mafia.

VOTE: DeltaWave

this is the kind of nonsensical thing that makes you read as town tbh

But seriously....this is kind of increasing my scumread on you. Why don't you talk about inutile, do you still think they're mafia?

that's funny, because you're looking more like town to me the more we talk. I'd say there's a decent 75% chance that inutile is mafia. signal-to-noise ratio is very bad, trying too hard w/r/t townclaiming, etc. reminds me of how I used to play a mafioso when I was new, very frantic. the 25% exception is if this user just plays like this all the time but I do not know the relevant meta.

btw, someone (I forgot who - it's a page or so back) misunderstood why I was sussing inutile. it wasn't because mafia was plural or anything. it's that the whole "let's come together as town, I'm one of you, let's get those evil mafias" is a sus thing to say overall, especially early game. maybe later on when there are some flips or lots of evidence that's a decent thing to say but combined with everything else, inutile just seems like a mafioso on a sugar high.

[DeltaWave]

Just walk me through your thought process here? Most of the posts confuse you (why is that scummy?) but you understand enough to say that their rationalising is weird? You either understand or you don't, it can't be both. Can you show some of their weird rationalising and explain why it's weird?

yeah sure. it's weird because it confuses me and it confuses me because it's weird. if I just started spouting gibberish you could call it weird even if it made no sense to you. not sure what your angle is here. e.g. the various walls of text inutile has posted.

This makes no sense at all and further intensifies my scum read on you.

call it a vibe. i expect mafia to act more like inutile and less like furtive

[DeltaWave]

Do what I said or I won't explain ANYTHING to you.

this is based, ngl

[DeltaWave]

I just thought Inutile was excited about playing, that's the vibe I got.

Have you played with inutile before?

[DeltaWave]

I just thought Inutile was excited about playing, that's the vibe I got.

Have you played with inutile before?

I've played with similar players.

idk this is very reminiscent of how I played scum when I first started playing mafia. i'm not going to tunnel on him but i do feel it's suspect

[DeltaWave]

i'm actually interested in hearing from the sideliners since this has mostly been the same few active people talking

[DeltaWave]

I see a lot of talk about

DeltaWave

and they're definitely in the PoE for me. The ISO is quite shallow, when at this point there's more than enough content to make deeper reads. Not going to lie,

intuile

is probably my strongest townlean for now, and the fact that this is the player

DeltaWave

has been so focused in this game makes him look worse in my eyes.

I suppose I agree with him that

hoppip

is sus, and

Ausuka

is town, but my gut tells me that something's not right here.

i'm actually interested in hearing from the sideliners since this has mostly been the same few active people talking

I'd be actually very much interested in hearing more from you.

that's a fallacy that even very seasoned mafia players make, so i'll call it a null for you. specifically, I'm referring to the idea that if you think Player A is town and Player B votes for Player A then Player B is likely mafia. makes assumptions that aren't true, and day 1 usually consists of town primarily going at each other while mafia eggs it on or hides. but like I said, even people who have played many many games make this mistake so I will call it a null for you.

i'm standing by my position that inutile is sus and i really don't care that it's making people scumread me. i'm not going to back off what i think is my best read right now because it's unpopular or it might get me eliminated. clearly, an inutile elimination is not going to happen right now based on how people are reading her but i don't operate on consensus like that. i truly do not understand why people see inutile as town. as i said before, if there's evidence that she always plays this way (even as town) then my tune might change but to date, nobody has done so unless I somehow missed it. you can think i'm mafia all you want but i would have picked a safer bet than this if that was the case. if you really think that mafia will wagon popular players instead of killing them at night i dont know what to tell you.

the hubbub around ghandi is interesting and i don't know what to make of it right now. people took very strong opinions about the player right off the bat and i can't understand why that would be the case. it would be interesting to revisit those interactions once we see some flips.

as for other reads.

asuka strikes me as town.
furtiveglance also strikes me as town. although his vote against me is wrong, the rationale seems towny.
bbt, on the other hand, strikes me as someone who wanted to piggyback off furtive's reasoning to join a relatively uncontroversial wagon that coincidentally targets the main person campaigning against inutile.
hoppip is neutral, leaning town. the rationale for sussing me wasn't great but is the kind of rationale i could expect from townspeople.
nuclear g - again, not sure what to make of this player since i just don't have a read on them and i'm confused as to why this is the biggest wagon rn. i'm not saying it's wrong, just don't know if it's right
juice, hut, miralax, and mohab all fall into the same category for me, which are low activity lurkers. there is ALWAYS scum in this group on d1. i wouldn't be surprised if juice is scum who is letting us slug it out. only two posts and still maintaining an RVS vote when we're nine pages in.

i wouldn't be terribly surprised if it's inutile/juice/bbt, assuming a standard 10:3 split.

[DeltaWave]

Delta, are you still RVS voting?

i never RVS.

[DeltaWave]

Delta, are you still RVS voting?

i never RVS.

Okay: inutile isn't going through today. You said you scum read juice and BBT, so of those two, who do you prefer to lim D1?

well you never know but you are most likely right, inutile is not going to be eliminated today. i'd like to hear more from juice before i decide. BBT has also been somewhat absent, mostly just throwing a vote out there and hanging back. bbt's read list also looks incredibly "safe" and non-controversial.

[DeltaWave]

the fact that you have hoppip above "lurkers always scum in there"(which i disagree with, on rational principle) worries me.
the fact that you don't address Frogster, who is obvious town, worries me.
The fact that you are not happy with the gandhi wagon this early worries me.
The fact that juice isn't at null worries me.

why do you worry me?

It is usually true that at least one mafia will lurk in order to avoid attention. It is very interesting that you perked up now that I've thrown a bit of shade on you by including you in the lurker category.

I forgot about frogater. Id say neutral leaning town but it's not super solid.

I never said I wasn't happy with the ghandi wagon. I just don't really understand it. Don't misrep me.

Let me guess. You are trying to slow walk your way onto my wagon so you can be with bbt.

[DeltaWave]

@Delta

@hutmeil

@BBT

What do you make of 237?

Clinging to that rvs for dear life lmao

[DeltaWave]

He started his rvs on like page 2 and then did basically nothing until called out, and is now just trying to defend it

[DeltaWave]

@Delta

@hutmeil

@BBT

What do you make of 237?

Clinging to that rvs for dear life lmao

it's page 10. so? juice is still null. im not against any votes there but data-wise iffy. why do I get the feeling that you're hunting for easy elims Delta?

OH yeah that must be why I'm still voting inutile

Try to make up better rationales please

[DeltaWave]

@Delta

@hutmeil

@BBT

What do you make of 237?

Clinging to that rvs for dear life lmao

it's page 10. so? juice is still null. im not against any votes there but data-wise iffy. why do I get the feeling that you're hunting for easy elims Delta?

OH yeah that must be why I'm still voting inutile

Try to make up better rationales please

despite 'common consensus' inutile is very elimable today, we all are in theory. i think they are town but hey they are def still a poss. and when you voted inutile, well, at that point it did seem an easy elim?

and you voting one place doesnt mean im not gonna analyze your pushes where you don't vote? what logic even is that? i'm only allowed to comment on where you vote? while your early scum on juice has been reinforced here? better rationale? no. I like my rationale right here, trained on you.

sooooo yeah................... i'll wait for gandhi but you're starting to really sell me on delta/hoppip here.

Very interesting how you formulated this theory immediately after I called you out for lurking

Go ahead, join your teammate on my wagon. What's stopping you?

Supposedly you are sold. Seems weird you wouldn't vote in that case

Unless you aren't actually hunting scum

[DeltaWave]

delta/hoppip isn't a team solve to me, but a blatant pattern that i feel delta is trying very hard to veer past for whatever reason. if i felt town on either slot I woulda let it slide, but I don't.

what pattern are you talking about? are you referring to like, 200 posts ago when hoppip didn't like my reasoning for reading inutile as scum? (just like apparently everyone else doesn't like it?)

tbh your extremely defensive reaction combined with your unwillingness to vote me (even though you claim "it's a fact" that I'm scum apparently) tells it all. you want to deflect but you're not certain if my wagon would succeed or not, so you don't want to hop on it just yet. that isn't townplay.

[DeltaWave]

You, eiralox, and Delta have all been doing it quite a lot iirc

i'm just really interested in the patterns here. what's going on with my wagon is particularly interesting. but i'm still not sure what to make of the g-train.

[DeltaWave]

missed that post. disagree with you on a scumtell like that. "obvtown" is not the same as "confirmed town" and i can't tell you how many times that someone who is "obvtown" on d1 ends up as scum by the end of the game. what is "obv" to you might not be "obv" to everyone else and what you're basically saying is that people should conform to the groupthink, which is basically what scum do to stay under the radar.

ANYWAY 67 is not the only reason why I sus intuile. I hope I spelled that right. as i stated previously, the frantic style is personally a lot like how i sounded when i was first playing scum and that rang some bells for me. also, i'm not as comfortable with locking people as town in d1 and letting them slip under the radar until the endgame as some people seem to be. if other people aren't going to do the suspecting then i will.

--

side note, plz do not think my associations are necessarily teamsolves. just pointing out information for the future, in case i get eliminated.

[DeltaWave]

]


tbh your extremely defensive reaction combined with your unwillingness to vote me (even though you claim "it's a fact" that I'm scum apparently) tells it all. you want to deflect but you're not certain if my wagon would succeed or not, so you don't want to hop on it just yet. that isn't townplay.

??????????????????????????????????
XD XD XD

ur the one being defensive love. deflect? deflect.... deflect.... from what? XD XD XD egh you do crack me up. but not in a wholesome way. more like... sandpaper on my brain kinda hysteria, but meh mirth is mirth. i'll take it : 3

i'll go through your posts tomorrow, i havent eaten yet fml, hopefully gandhi is back by then so that i can have a more ameliorating diversion.

lmao. until i called you out for staying on the sidelines, you didn't even

mention

my name once. let alone give a read.

after i called you out though, i was suddenly suspect #1 in your eyes and you seem so certain of it. ("it's a fact", eh?)

it's an odd response, like you're fishing for a reason to vote me. or at least detach from previous positions.

[DeltaWave]

"Buuuut I put you in lurk bin so anything u say against me is false cos u perked up at me never saw me etcetera etcetera" which is such an absurd approach to my approach that, while it humored me, it's not something i'm going to humor.

not my point. i lumped you in with the other sideliners and made a comment that there's got to be scum within that group. you then immediately started to tunnel on me despite never mentioning me before in this game - indicating that you're playing self-defense rather than communicating a genuine scumread. or in other words, you're acting like i hit a little too close to a nerve.

but........ time for me to consume biomatter and view pixel films. i'll go through your ISO tomorrow with a fine comb. I'll see if the vibes that your latest actions have conveyed are wholly consistent with your past iterations.

oh yeah of course. accuse first, read later. i'm sure you'll hop on the bandwagon when you get back. it's silly for you to even pretend like there's some rational basis behind what you're saying - other than "I was successfully sitting things out on the sidelines until DW called me out, now I have to defend myself somehow."

[DeltaWave]

I just got done driving all day. I'm going to catch up in the morning

[DeltaWave]

Hoppip - how did you get into a normal game when you've been here for like a week? i thought you had to do a newbie game first.

have you played mafia before on this site or other sites?

wanted to ask before i jump up and down on your logic from several pages back (tried to quote it but it didn't take)

someone scum reads me for my RVS - ROFLCOPTER

not really sure i even buy into the narrative that that was an rvs vote

like a page 8 random vote on the leading wagon seems kinda unlikely for a lot of reasons

though i get that you've also not played in some time so maybe different expectations but still seems unlikely

yeah

i now admit inutile is probably town due to this post.

UNVOTE: inutile

So I mean........ Delta is wrong, delta is defensive as fuck, delta is misrepping me bad, delta was very irritating and dodgy and illogical last night but, and meh i havent done the iso shtick cos I got a life, I can feel all those irregularities coming from town. Furtive? Rats but that slot just scumpings me on an instinct level, even tho they also feel green at the same time? paradox? maybe. But I think RE: Juice delta talking and furtive voting convinces me that scum is likelier in furtive than delta..... maybe........ too early for me. imma watch these two, something's whack.

Hoppip voting Delta is a very very interesting development.................. i'll post when I post/

can you just commit and vote for me already? i don't even know what the purpose would be to fixate on me as scum for so long and then not follow up. unless you're trying to see if anyone else is buying it before you do?

I mean when I think of things we can do to rejuvenate a game voting a lurker is not particularly high on that list

it's a little more than juice being a lurker though. as inutile pointed out, a supposed "random" vote 9 pages in, on the leading wagon, is sus. why would town!juice do that? it doesn't shake out.

i do agree that it's not terrifically interesting if only because juice's flip wouldn't provide a massive amount of associative information. but i can't get over the allegedly "random" vote on the top wagon combined with what seems to be a total lack of interest in scumhunting.



we've got time, we don't need to railroad juice right now. but I think juice is a big contender at this time.

[DeltaWave]

why would town!juice do that? it doesn't shake out

You could equally ask why scum Juice would do that. It's not good play as either alignment. I have no particular love for that slot and I'm sure they'll probably be eliminated at some point unless there's a replacement but I stand by the idea pushing them as your primary scumread at this point is safe and boring and somewhat scum indicative as a result.

i hear this, but juice needs pressure. juice can't just remain unexamined forever. we still have like, six days before d1 ends so there is time to apply pressure and still go in another direction if warranted.

VOTE: Juice

[DeltaWave]

UNVOTE:

VOTE: DeltaWave

this Penguin is looking for an easy lynch - just because ive been a bit inactive

egregious #365 misrep

so far you've had a "random" vote on page 9 which just so happened to be on the largest wagon

now you do some OMGUS b/c i put pressure on you to stop lurking

and your only read is town on asuka, which is like the safest read ever

TELL ME MORE

[DeltaWave]

if i'm not 100% clear, my point is that none of these activities are useful in the slightest and seem intended to make juice difficult to read

[DeltaWave]

if juice gets to E-1 again I will temporarily unvote. i don't want to waste the rest of the day. please do not bring juice to E-1 just yet.

[DeltaWave]

don't get me wrong, i'm fine with a juice elim. it's just that we have like 6 days left in d1 and it makes no sense to end it now.

[DeltaWave]

could someone kindly explain to me what the hubbub is about nuclear, because i still frankly do not understand what went on in the first 10 pages with this wagon

[DeltaWave]

could someone kindly explain to me what the hubbub is about nuclear, because i still frankly do not understand what went on in the first 10 pages with this wagon

do you think nuclear gandhi has been towny since being wagoned?

like yea the wagon has largely gone away but in that time nuclear gandhi has made one post about the first four pages which was a whole change of approach from previous posting

so is the extent of your thoughts on nuclear gandhi still dunno why they were wagoned?

i'm going to ISO nuclear after work and share some thoughts.

the part that confuses me about the wagon is that there were such immediate polar reactions and i couldn't figure out where that was coming from.

[DeltaWave]

the part that confuses me about the wagon is that there were such immediate polar reactions and i couldn't figure out where that was coming from.

also your wagon felt possibly a reaction to nuclear gandhi's wagon and it seems odd to me that you seem to have dismissed that possibility

i actually think i pointed that out with BBT's vote. i dont think furtive is scum but bbt hopping on when they did and why they did was sus to me.

[DeltaWave]

tl;dr - post-hoc rationalizations for a scummy vote choice

bbt - if juice wasn't e-1 would you vote juice?

[DeltaWave]

it's so ironic that you would post that while also ignoring my question lmao

[DeltaWave]

ruuuuuuude

[DeltaWave]

you are being toxic

[DeltaWave]

the main problem is that i'm not interested in your scummy opinions. you hopped on a wagon using borrowed reasoning and now want to defend that b/c you were called out.

[DeltaWave]

I see, no explanation.

Good to know.

You just can't catch a break buddy!

[DeltaWave]

I thought you were scummy before but now I have a personal problem with you on top of that

[DeltaWave]

gandhi, your thoughts are interesting but at this rate you will never catch up to the thread. how about a reads list?

[DeltaWave]

Also Juice is like, the easiest target ever here. Scum don't even have to justify their vote really because like... come on.

from my perspective, this is primarily a pressurewagon although i see there was almost a hammer last night. not really happy with that.

[DeltaWave]

i'm concerned about many of the same things you are but i think what matters the most is (1) why people are on the wagon and (2) why the hammerers were going to hammer. just being on the wagon itself doesn't concern me since that can easily be scum bussing a scumbuddy, etc.

[DeltaWave]

basically i don't care so much about what people do but rather why they do it.

[DeltaWave]

hutmeil providing some consensus reads and not much else looks scummy to me.

hoppip might also be scum or might also be a very new player who somehow got into a normal game and i'm not sure which one it is. his account is literally like a week old.

[DeltaWave]

the part i don't get is why anyone would want to hammer juice right now. we're only about half way through day 1 and i don't understand why we would want it to end early.

[DeltaWave]

i must have missed the alt thing. i will have to reevaluate in that light.

being 100% reactive is a potential tell. however there is still time today for useful content to be provided. UNLESS WE HAMMER EARLY WHICH WE SHOULDNT DO

[DeltaWave]

i'm not 100% clear on what the survey is supposed to do, tbh

[DeltaWave]

hmm

VOTE: inutile

can you at least do whatever it is you would do to sort me as it feels like the extent of your scumread if you're town is simply that i do not communicate effectively which is obvious and i would rather this not continue to detract from us finding mafias

Inutile tries to frame Ausuka’s scumread as inutile being unable to effectively communicate, which is just false. If I was not catching up, my vote would be on Intuile.

i've been there before.

anyway, UNVOTE: Mapuche Never Die

here are my thoughts as they stand:

Mapuche Never Die - holding off on judgment due to replacement

BlueBloodedToffee - in the scumpool for hopping into furtive's reasoning in the way that he did and then sticking to the guns in what i thought was an obvious post-hoc rationalization.

DeltaWave - never trusted this person, she didn't do the survey

furtiveglance - i'm pretty sure you're town. i see town reasoning behind a lot of your actions.

Frogsterking - frankly, you fell into a blindspot for me and i haven't been thinking about you. I need to examine this slot more.

Greeting - i am bothered by the almost-hammer on juice. there is NO utility for town to end the day as early as that. especially when much of the juicewagon was a combination of pressure/policy elimination.

hutmeil - asuka's reasoning about this slot is persuasive to me

Ausuka - if you're scum you deserve the tony award.

hoppip - i assumed this user was a clueless noob who somehow got into a normal game but they are apparently an alt. so I need to re-read the ISO with that in mind.

Eiralox - in the scumpool for reasons i already stated

inutile - i think you're probably town. not nearly as strong of a read as asuka or furtive but i'll roll with you for a while.

Mohab500 - idk, this might be time for a pressurewagon like with juice.

Nuclear Gandhi - i don't think you're scummy based on what i've seen but i'd really like to see a summary of the game from your perspective rather than the play-by-play. you're too far behind and will NEVER catch up.

in short:

townpool: asuka, furtive (if either is scum i will be legit surprised)
leaning townpool: inutile, gandhi (slight lean, not as much as inutile)
further examination needed: frogsterking, mohab
judgment withheld due to replacement: MND
didn't know he was an alt so i have to re-read: hoppip
leaning scumpool: greeting (i really really did not like the intent to hammer juice - it's just way too early to hammer anybody and it gives me GREAT CONCERN)
scumpool: BBT, eiralox, hutmail

also, i might actually do the survey when i'm less tired. probably tomorrow. i don't see how it will help but ok. my MBTI type is ENTP.

[DeltaWave]

inutile is being replaced.

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

[DeltaWave]

MND, are you an alt. I assume so.

you're making some really good points btw

[DeltaWave]

MHD is feeling town to me. we aren't going to eliminate gandhi.

keeping nero in the likely town pool (doesn't change my inutile read)

i like the greeting wagon. i don't want to vote until we get a VC because idk how close greeting is to hammer.

[DeltaWave]

nah MND is town. or at least likely town. it even says "townie" under his name.

in response to frog's 666: yes, greeting is V/LA but that doesn't mean he's immune to suspicion. i'm not suggesting we hammer him before he get back. i'm saying that i'd vote him though but I want to see the VC specifically so I don't hammer him or bring him to E-1.

gandhi's logic seems very town but i'm still bothered that he just did some early recaps and then petered out. he still strikes me as likely town but he needs to get on the ball a bit better.

[DeltaWave]

i unvoted MND earlier but the mod missed it. to be clear, UNVOTE: Mapuche

Thank you for the correction, the correct vote was edited in earlier - Gamma Emerald

[DeltaWave]

Hoppip what's your actual read on Hutmeil

Same to delta I guess

I think he's like, really blatantly scummy, and do not understand the general lack of attention to him at all

oh yeah i've been agreeing with you on that. i mentioned him in my last read list.

VOTE: hutmeil

MPD as the lead weagon seems mostly like juice carryover. i think RMD has reallly come off as town and i'm not going to be voting for them.

[DeltaWave]

going to give greeting some breathing room until v/la is over

[DeltaWave]

i unvoted MND earlier but the mod missed it. to be clear, UNVOTE: Mapuche

I want to make a note of this unvote right here. Why?

PEdit:

MND hasn't done anything Town!Indicative. This is a bizarre statement from Delta which sends me further into confbiasing the Delta/Gandhi/MND solve.

i unvoted MHG in #557 but the mod didn't count it. so i did it again.

[DeltaWave]

That's great Delta. I reread 557 and it's golden. Can you explain why you're fence sitting on at least half of your reads? Also can you clarify the following read into anything that sounds believable?

furtiveglance - i'm pretty sure you're town. i see town reasoning behind a lot of your actions.

define "fence sitting" for me

[DeltaWave]

a juice lim would have provided just about zero information. the primary benefit to the juicewagon was pressure and i sus those who wanted to end the day early

[DeltaWave]

That's great Delta. I reread 557 and it's golden. Can you explain why you're fence sitting on at least half of your reads? Also can you clarify the following read into anything that sounds believable?

furtiveglance - i'm pretty sure you're town. i see town reasoning behind a lot of your actions.

define "fence sitting" for me

557

if you want me to respond to your post you're gonna have to tell me how you define fence sitting.

[DeltaWave]

If you were talking about 542, I have always considered days on MafiaScum to be excessively long.

i'm glad someone agrees with me on this. days could be shorter which would make the game more fast-paced and interesting. but because we have the long days we do, it might as well go to use. especially day 1

[DeltaWave]

at least you answered the q unlike Delta.

what question did i not answer?

[DeltaWave]

why you town reading MND and Gandhi. I think you were asked both.

the scumhunting feels genuine. it seems like they're really trying to consider the game in a way that doesn't seem calculated. but like i said before, i'm not happy with the fact that gandhi will never catch up at this rate and i'd like to see more real participation.

noting that frogster "i'm getting a raging confbias right now" king didn't answer my question about what they mean by fence sitting. doubling down on confbias doesn't count as scumhunting to me. compare this to NMD and you'll see the answer to your initial question become revealed

p-edit: hut's wagon is way more than just not being active. the few posts he has made has been sus. i don't feel like reiterating again but it's been discussed before by asuka and i found the reasoning extremely persuasive

[DeltaWave]

I think MND's plodding catchup is fake.

he replaced in late d1 what do you expect my guy

[DeltaWave]

wow frog and i agree on something. i never thought it woiuld hapepn.

[DeltaWave]

i'm so tired. i'm ok with the following elims today: hut, greetings, eroalox, bbt. i have not caught up with whatever happened today but im going to read it.

[DeltaWave]

hutmeil - Confirmed Town. At least that's what my PM says.

Your PM says "Confirmed Town"?

[DeltaWave]

oh my god you're doing it again. when i pointed out that you were not very active and noted that there is scum somewhere in the lurkpool (note: wasn't even specifically accusing you at that point) you started on an OMGUS train in which you kept throwing shade in my direction but hesitated to actually vote for me, as if you were looking to see if anyone was buying it before you placed your vote. and now you're basically doing that again.

"and these three other wagons just so happen to be the ones that have traction"

yeah it's almost as if people have reached a rough consensus after 1000 posts

" anyway, im back to watching delta"

I'm willing to bet that if someone votes me you'll be voting right behind that.

if you think i'm scum then why don't you want to eliminate scum?

or are you scum that doesn't want to commit to this wagon unless others do so first?

you already know what i'm thinking

ALSO, why is hut not an option?

p-edit: OH MY GOD. "if I have the time i might look at bbt/delta cos I think i've disregarded both slots a bit thus far."

your ISO mentions me seventy six times lmao

are you even serious right now

[DeltaWave]

my mom says we can eliminate hutmeil if it's ok with your mom

[DeltaWave]

I do find it funny that the reasons against hutmeil are well detailed and thought out, and the town!hut argument is "nah"

[DeltaWave]

seven hours left... seven letters in hutmeil's name... coincidence? i think NOT

[DeltaWave]

i'm gonna catch up after work but i feel like this is eralox right now

[DeltaWave]

Ugh, I got a guilty on

Crescent

, was PUMPED to rush here and announce it and she’s dead, oh well. One down, rest to go.

i think i may have modded a game once or twice off-site so i'm probably not the best expert on this. ill need someone else to confirm my understanding on this one, but my understanding of natural action resolution is that kill actions are resolved before investigate actions. therefore, you wouldn't get a guilty on crescent. your action wouldn't have resolved at all because crescent was killed. see, e.g, https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... olden_Rule

[DeltaWave]

this is giving me townie vibes from era gotta be honest.

p-edit: idk the NAR action list places kill before investigate so i would not expect investigate to resolve on crescent

[DeltaWave]

I kinda want to do this survey now so you can give me the Sigmund Freud treatment too

[DeltaWave]

Rate each descriptive statement on how well it describes you using the Likert scale (1 = strongly disagree to 5 = strongly agree).

"Get angry easily" = 1.5

"Take charge" = 4.2

"Make people feel welcome" = 3.3

"Like music" = 5.0

"Like to tidy up" = 1.2

"Like to visit new places" = 3.1

"Feel comfortable around people" = 5.0

"Interested in many things" = 5.0

"Love order and regularity" = 2.4

"Am afraid to draw attention to myself" = 1.5

"Enjoy being part of a large crowd" = 2.0

"Cheer people up" = 4.4

"Lose my temper" = 1.2

"Enjoy the beauty of nature" = 3.2

"Enjoy thinking about things" = 5.0

"Cheat to get ahead" = 3.0

"Feel desperate" = 1.1

"Rarely overindulge" = 2.5

"Easily resist temptations" = -1.0

"Have a high opinion of myself" = 5.0

"Waste my time" = 5.0

"Need a push to get started" = 4.0

"Have little to contribute" = 1.3

"Keep my cool" = 4.3

"Avoid crowds" = 3.2

"Turn my back on others" = 3.8

[DeltaWave]

i'm gonna catch up after work but i feel like this is eralox right now

omf i read this as u wanting to vote me which prompted my 1194. which was... senselessly offensive considering u never even said u were gonna vote me. yeah if i'm starting to misread posts like this, like seeing what I expect rather than maintaining a judicial mindset, it's time for me to take a breather. Think I'll return tommorow.

I think i'll be very glad if some of the votes on me come with cases. I'll be even gladder if gandhi and hopip start to be more proactive so we can sort this.

Have fun ya'll.

i don't know exactly how to put this into words, but your extremely defensive/persecuted reaction strikes me as something that is at least not scummy and perhaps townie. the pure volatility of it. call it a "frustrated townie" vibe. i think you're out of my poe for right now.

[DeltaWave]

Actually, I was wondering why I wasn't killed tonight and

furtiveglance

was.

many possible reasons, some of them WIFOM. not really wise to chug the wifom unless there's some really cogent case behind it

p-edit: thanks, 11 years on MS!

[DeltaWave]

i was in my last year of law school when i joined and now i'm a senior trial attorney lol

[DeltaWave]

i was in my last year of law school when i joined and now i'm a senior trial attorney lol

Okay, and do you work at a firm?

yeah. i used to be the general counsel for a company but they went under due to covid and now i'm back to trial law.

[DeltaWave]

i was in my last year of law school when i joined and now i'm a senior trial attorney lol

Okay, and do you work at a firm?

yeah. i used to be the general counsel for a company but they went under due to covid and now i'm back to trial law.

How do you feel about the work culture at your firm?

this is actually the best firm i've worked at. there's a legitimate team spirit and it lacks the kind of backstabbing/undermining that is typical in law firms. very unusual environment

[DeltaWave]

era - what does "townlock" mean to you, specifically

[DeltaWave]

i was in my last year of law school when i joined and now i'm a senior trial attorney lol

Okay, and do you work at a firm?

yeah. i used to be the general counsel for a company but they went under due to covid and now i'm back to trial law.

How do you feel about the work culture at your firm?

this is actually the best firm i've worked at. there's a legitimate team spirit and it lacks the kind of backstabbing/undermining that is typical in law firms. very unusual environment

Is the environment unusual only because of the lack of backstabbing or are there other aspects which make it unusual to work there?

i'm fine w/talking about this but is this related to mafia? i will keep answering if this is some psychoanalysis thing because i want to know my personality type

[DeltaWave]

oh cool. they take advantage of better systems, e.g. we're completely digital with e-signatures etc etc instead of fully paper files and that sort of thing. they also have a well-defined role for paralegals which is sometimes a question mark in firms

[DeltaWave]

but I want to know your reads

ok. pretty sure hutmeil is town

[DeltaWave]

i'm gonna post a full read list tomorrow morning, i'm too tired/punchy right now

[DeltaWave]

sorry i've been out of it. the last couple days have been extra busy as they always are before a holiday weekend. i'll contribute tomorrow morning if i don't do it tonight

[DeltaWave]

I slept all day which was nice

I think frog is so far off base with ausuka that it gives me tremendous concern. I'm on mobile so I won't really quote it but the entire case in the last few pages seems contrived. Like frog started with the conclusion and built the case backwards

Somewhat concerned that greeting is an SK and there is no town vidge

My poe is basically bbt, frog, hoppip (I want to hear from the replacement before I vote) and POSSIBLY era. I felt that era's reaction earlier in the day was giving frustrated townie.

I'll go into more detail about this but I wanted to post today

[DeltaWave]

Alright I feel pretty convinced it's best here if Ausuka goes to e-1 and claims.

VOTE: Delta

I'll take a Delta e-1 and claim as a compromise.

what exactly is a claim going to do for you?

also, what's my personality type? i did your survey plz respond

[DeltaWave]

i still think ausuka is town.

era is in my poe but is on the cusp. i have some conflicting feelings. so far, the towniest thing era has done has been a very town-feeling blow up today. otoh, era did some really dodgy stuff yesterday and basically used "i was just screwing around" as the justification and i think that's pretty weak. the "mohab townlock" fiasco is also notable.

p-edit: i'd be fine with bbt but i think hoppip would be a cop-out right now. it's basically an elim based on inactivity and i'd rather vote for someone i think is scummy. i'm fine with pressure wagons but there is no need for pressure because he's being replaced out.

[DeltaWave]

I mean can't we just not elim anyone until we get a new hoppip

I'm fine just waiting for that, honestly

we basically have 2.5 days so there's time

[DeltaWave]

VOTE: Greeting

I want to test the claim.

Is voting to eliminate an uncc'd PR wise?

there are several things i dislike about this reply

[DeltaWave]

VOTE: Greeting

I want to test the claim.

Is voting to eliminate an uncc'd PR wise?

there are several things i dislike about this reply

Like what?

alright. where do i start, because there's a lot.

1. the overall self-preservation tone of this post
2. your argument relies solely on the fact that you haven't been counter-claimed instead of anything of any real substance
3. feels like there's potentially some fishing for a counter-claim
4. your post 1068 - "I consider myself to be a rather intelligent person, but I'm not smart enough to make such a sophisticated fake claim, honestly. I would need to have someone from my team invent it for me (10% effort) and then successfully convince me to use it (90% effort), which overall makes it highly improbable." this lengthy explanation as to how you could never ever come up with such an elaborate fakeclaim raises my eyebrows. you echoed the same sentiment in 1246, where you say that you are "town cleared" because of your "very unlikely to fake claim."
5. you refused to provide a reads list in 1258 and said you would if you survive to d3. again, more self-preservation stuff that doesn't actually assist scumhunting
6. your claim hasn't actually confirmed anything because crescent died at night.
7. your post 1260 - "My guess is that there are no more Mafia Goons in this game and so my role isn't a threat to the mafia anymore." it feels like you're setting yourself up to get no-reads later on. the type of cop you claimed would get "no result" on a townie or a mafia PR, so you could conceivably report "no result" every night without repercussions.
8. if your current operating theory is that your power is not a threat to mafia, the "you can't lim me because nobody counter-claimed me" argument becomes way weaker.
9. you seem to assume that a day lim is the only way to lim you, since apparently you value getting through the day over actually providing scumreads (see point 5, and well a whole bunch of other points too.)

what it boils down to is that you've largely been doing self-preservation stuff and resting on the "no counterclaim" argument as if that's open and shut, which it really isn't

i feel like if you really were a cop you'd be doing the best you can to participate as much as you can, since you are an obvious NK target. this is in contrast to point 5 above, where you said you'd only provide a list of reads if you're alive in d3.

p-edit: Im fine with BBT today

[DeltaWave]

i really think you should provide some scumreads greeting

[DeltaWave]

the whole "this fakeclaim is too elaborate for me to come up with" thing really sticks with me. for one, it's not. secondly, it's actually a good fakeclaim because it gets a "no result" on both townies (PR or vanilla) and mafia PRs, so there's plausible deniability with results.

i'm not saying "yeah greeting is 100% scum" but i'm concerned by the overall pattern here. and i really do not support the idea that greeting is "town cleared" so they don't have to provide reads and they can't be sussed

[DeltaWave]

so are you going to provide reads or are you just gonna coast

[DeltaWave]

i'm not saying flip Greeting today. i'm saying that "i claimed and nobody counterclaimed so i'm cleared town and i don't have to contribute and you can't sus me" isn't an argument.

VOTE: BBT

[DeltaWave]

aughhh i'm not saying that greeting should be ON the table right now. just that coasting is unacceptable

[DeltaWave]

do an iso on BBT's posts today and tell me he's town

[DeltaWave]

well, i mean that for anyone who isn't voting for bbt right now.

[DeltaWave]

[DeltaWave]

I'm not convinced that BBT bussed themselves into a potential autoloss or makes the Greeting kill. I think what's happening here is that I'm ahead of the curve on my Delta FoS.

Because this reads like you want to buffer the wave of suspicion by quickly having another name out there without yet having the reasons to back it up

Fine then:

I think Delta is scum by PoE. I think Delta is most likely to make the Greeting kill. I think Delta tried to pocket me D2 and I think Delta lied about their survey results. I think Delta has a viable (though unlikely) path to end game which doesn't require much work on their part. Delta tried to derail the Hoppip wagon. Delta has some minor negative associatives with Hoppip from D1. Delta was suspected early D1 based on tone and then Townread later for bad reasons which I consider typical "deepscum" trajectory.

yeah nothing says pocketing someone like putting them as #2 in your poe (post 1434.) this is the funniest post in the thread

explain how i lied about my survey results please. i did your survey plz respond

for that matter i want to know why i'd be "most likely to make the greeting kill." please explain what is so special about night killing a cop that only i could have come up with that brilliant idea. is nightkilling a cop such a revolutionary concept that only the legendary deltawave could have come up with it? i know that pro strats like nightkilling a claimed cop are rare but do you think i'm really that uniquely brilliant to come up with a platinum level strategy like that? ok, i know that it's such a wild scum plan. like who would think of nightkilling a cop, it just can't cross anyone's mind so i understand why you see it as so unusual. i just want to know what about me screams that i could come up with such a never-before-seen move. is it just that i'm so smart?

i quote from my post 1434: "I think frog is so far off base with ausuka that it gives me tremendous concern. I'm on mobile so I won't really quote it but the entire case in the last few pages seems contrived. Like frog started with the conclusion and built the case backwards"

in other words, exactly what you're doing here. once again.

VOTE: frogster

it's just so laughable that you could try to pass off "killing a claimed cop" as some kind of slot-specific move

fyi i did not try to derail the hoppip wagon. i didn't want to vote a slot that just replaced out on the grounds of inactivity. it was a lucky outcome that hoppip's slot was actually scum.

[DeltaWave]

And why would you make that assumption?

i have a feeling that frog has some good insights into the composition of the scumteam, which is how he can make this assumption.

basically what frog is doing today is a mirror of what he did with ausuka yesterday: decide his target, work backwards to create an obviously fabricated case, and see if it gains traction. it didn't with ausuka yesterday, so he moved on.

i take note of the various tactics frog uses to distance himself from his own arguments. for example, frog talks about how greeting called his play "bad townplay" and then described it as "wise of him." (post 1618.) how can frog make these ultra-confident posts and then also think it's wise to describe him as engaging in bad townplay. it doesn't make sense, unless frog knows he's wrong and wants to establish that he's just generally off-target as a matter of course. in the past, frog has gone very far out of his way to describe himself as engaging in "confbias" (see post 666, 696... or just search his ISO for the word confbias. It comes up a lot, all in reference to himself.) again, distancing himself from his own actions so he can be like "ooops i confbiased too hard lol" when i flip town.

i still haven't heard how (1) shading him as my #2 counts as a pocket attempt and (2) how i lied on the survey. these are probably the most absurd angles aside from the "how could anyone but dw decide to nk a cop" which is just silly.

the greeting stuff is also funny because as ausuka pointed out, frog went pretty hard on greeting yesterday - both sussing him and voting him to "test his claim."

[DeltaWave]

it's funny how you don't even try to defend your complete stretch of a case

[DeltaWave]

kind of interesting how one of furtive's last acts was to place frog at the top of the scumlist

[DeltaWave]

VOTE: DeltaWave

what a shit setup. 3 vanilla goons vs. cop, jailkeeper, vig. gg town

[DeltaWave]

sorry for self-hammering but there's no reason to drag this along. just really baffled at how ridiculous it is to load the town up with power roles but give nothing to scum

[DeltaWave]

so what other power roles exist here lol

i half expect there to be a tracker or something too, why not

[DeltaWave]

so there wasn't a vig, we just shot our own teammate on error lol

well see you in another 7 years

[DeltaWave]

btw my plan was to shoot nero, ME BBT, shoot someone who would frame eralox, ME eralox and then any NK target would have won the game (if the math is right)