Mini Normal 2283 - Game Over!

[Elements]

3,3,3,3,3,3,3,3,3,3,3,3,3,3,3,3,3,3,3,3,3,3,3,3,3,3
VOTE: Elements

[Elements]

Above the Line
Firebringer
Frog
Grib
Bellaphant
The Line-------Eiralox, NM, Enchant, Firth, TSQ, BBT
HighPrincess
Aisa
Below the Line

[Elements]

VOTE: Aisa

[Elements]

UNVOTE:

[Elements]

I'm reading though and can't think of anything useful to say.

[Elements]

I think Fire is town and Frog is scum.

I agree that Fire is town. Idk about Frog.

[Elements]

Sooo… I made a case for Frog being scum.

I think your case comes from a town mindset. I don't think your points necessarily point towards Frog scum though. I can see Frog!town wanting to sort Fire and so not paying as much attention to others doing the same, and I think Frog and Fire's early interactions point in this direction.

[Elements]

@Elements

, why is Bella above null?

*shrug*

[Elements]

So you think Frog is just ignoring it?

[Elements]

Do people not look at the pronouns of others?

[Elements]

Do people not look at the pronouns of others?

Wait before I go can you clarify why you townleaned Bella in your initial reads list?

Purely vibes

[Elements]

Imma read aisa's scum game. Also, I forgot not mad and soleay were in the game.

Sorry elements, something else I read wrong. Did we play together recently?

I haven't played for a couple of years so no

[Elements]

I like tsq for town

[Elements]

I should probably vote someone

[Elements]

VOTE: Aisa

[Elements]

As for HPE,

I scumread her

to reasons previously stated. I also don’t like how she voted BBT, and her tone is very off.

But not enormous to vote there?

[Elements]

As for HPE,

I scumread her

to reasons previously stated. I also don’t like how she voted BBT, and her tone is very off.

But not enough to vote there?

Ebwop

[Elements]

Grib - Prob-Town
Frogsterking - Null/Town
Bellaphant - Town Lean
Firebringer - Town
Eiralox - Null
Not_Mafia - Null
HighPrincessErinys - Null
Enchant - Prob-Town
Solway Firth - Null/Sum
Aisa - Scum Lean
Thestatusquo - Town
BlueBloodedToffee - Haven't Read

[Elements]

HPE can have a bit of a town bump

[Elements]

BBT can be a town lean

[Elements]

Talk to me about hpe and tsq @elements?

HPE - It's posts read from a place of gently massaging the game, and I can empathise with 125. It hasn't reached town lean status yet, just +town points coz I think it's posts feel more from a town pov than a scum one.

TSQ - I like big stances and throwing out reads as town. The exchange with Grib reads TvT to me. I don't think SvS would be able to fake that level of misunderstanding, nor do I think scum would bother continuing to press the matter.

[Elements]

PEdit - Hey Elements, I asked you a question earlier, would you mind going back and answering it?

which one?

[Elements]

VOTE: Aisa

Talk about this?

5 and 228 both ping me. The meta on Frog is eh at best and comes to a conclusion I disagree with. I wanted to have my vote on someone.

[Elements]

PEdit - Hey Elements, I asked you a question earlier, would you mind going back and answering it?

which one?

ISO me?

effort

[Elements]

OK, can you explain why they ping you?

Not satisfactorily

[Elements]

Cheeky scum? I like it.

*eyeroll*

[Elements]

Where are the other points that are the so called "meat" of the confrontation?

[Elements]

ah, thank you

[Elements]

VOTE: BBT

[Elements]

seconded

[Elements]

VOTE: Aisa

Talk about this?

5 and 228 both ping me. The meta on Frog is eh at best and comes to a conclusion I disagree with. I wanted to have my vote on someone.

What part of my meta on Frog did you disagree with?

Looking back on it a honestly cannot remember

[Elements]

Fight me

[Elements]

If you disarm me I'll just grow them back

[Elements]

Why do you want a list of town reads? So you know who to night kill?

[Elements]

I'm trying to see whether we have any collective insight into the slots which are harder to read. I call it "Town reading by proxy."

Why not ask us about those slots specifically then?

[Elements]

My most recent read list is as up to date as I care to be at the moment

[Elements]

Don't like that

[Elements]

TSQ what do you think about a BBT, Aisa, SF scum team?

[Elements]

I think it fits but is just way too obvious

[Elements]

Someone quote a post they want me to respond to

NM is my biggest scum read

[Elements]

I'm no longer the largest wagon!

[Elements]

VOTE: BlueBloodedToffee

What changed?

[Elements]

VOTE: Aisa

[Elements]

Anyway, why are you voting Asia for a third time?

I'm sheeping TSQ whenever he's on BBT, then Aisa is the person I want to flip most after that

[Elements]

Why not?

[Elements]

VOTE: BBT

[Elements]

yo nm, vote bbt

[Elements]

Maybe everyone would be happier if I started playing more like Elements.

No.

rude

[Elements]

VOTE: BBT
This is scum and I don't think anyone can convince me otherwise

[Elements]

People who are actually trying to read me, like eir and honestly bbt, are reading me right.

Have you considered that's because they know your alignment?

I am town reading bbt.

Please do tell why

Pointing the tsq nk at him is like level 0 of a read.

No one is scum reading BBT just because of the night kill and saying that is deliberately disingenuous.
The read is 3 fold. Terrible reaction to TSQ's test (and you cannot argue it wasn't bad because it was), the night kills, and wagonomics.
At least half of the wagon on bbt was town at all points. With N_M and enchant in the game it was effectively 6 to lim. Me, Grib, Aisa, and Eiralox were all on the E-1 wagon with 2 confirmed town. The scum team is not Grib, Eiralox, Aisa. I think there was a max of 1 scum on that wagon. At the end of the day there were at least 4 town willing to vote BBT. Scum push that. That's easy momentum to push a mis-lim.

I also think there were at least 2 scum on the SF wagon at the end.

[Elements]

that moment where my only townread is Elements in this game.

These truly are dark times

[Elements]

what does snowing mean?

[Elements]

Then why say that you had things to say at all?

[Elements]

Now everyone is going to want to know what it is you shouldn't say!

[Elements]

I did not realise it had been so long since I last posted

[Elements]

Can you tell me what your reads are aside from BBT when you next get on, Elements?

that is my plan for tomorrow, my aim is to iso everyone and go from there.
but briefly off the top of my head
NM and enchant are unreadable blobs
frog, bella, bbt are where I think we'll most likely hit scum
you, eira, grib prob town
fire town

[Elements]

Elements, wanna vote Frog?

no

[Elements]

so this wagon has escalated quickly

[Elements]

What do you think it means?

I think it makes Frog less likely scum and you more likely scum

[Elements]

hmm, actually maybe it doesn't make you more likely scum

[Elements]

BBT and Aisa aren't both scum

[Elements]

I like Bella for scum too

[Elements]

VOTE: Bellaphant

[Elements]

No read Bella!
That's a slot I want you to look at!

[Elements]

It is not. Sadly the thinking part of my brain decided it didn't want to.
But I asked because I wanted your pov on Bella.

[Elements]

I suggest we not lose sight of the BBT wagon. That was our (my) mistake D1. We should have the numbers to push it through if the Bella and BBT wagons consolidate. I'm pretty sure my wagon is just intended as a distraction to keep BBT alive.

I'm fully on board with the BBT wagon

[Elements]

VOTE: BBT

[Elements]

Fire, Grib, vote BBT

[Elements]

Umm, OK.

That's kind of worrying

No worry if i had choice i would kill Eire first

But that's not happening today so you should vote BBT

[Elements]

Aisa, come to the vote BBT side. We have cookies

[Elements]

If Enchant votes BBT, will that act to summon NM?

[Elements]

Why not both?

[Elements]

Think it's going to be this close to the end of the day every day?

[Elements]

What did you want?

[Elements]

VOTE: bella

[Elements]

Fire, I don't know how to say what I'm saying any clearer. I spent day one convinced that there must be fair portion of scum in the group of people I find difficult to read, and I've been really clear who they are and why. It's really frustrating to think that the slots that I really struggle to engage with are the ones I need to. I don't know how to make this clearer.

I thought that town! Any slot would give final reads at an impending hammer. Honestly any decent reads there might have made me reconsider. I don't think this is unusual? I'm also super hesitant to hammer: recently (a game frog and nm and a.few other people) were in I hammered with what looked like consensus and scum tried to use it to mislim me. It's also just totally nai for me, I'm just cautious as a person.
Like I said, your read on me feels 100% personality based. Which is funny (not really) because a lot of my reads were two day one and they were shit.

I might be wrong about bbt, but I have also seen him mis limmed as town a lot recently. I did feel like his engagement with me was genuine, but his lack of content today is worrying. I think Eir is town because of our chat about the game being 'unreadable': I said it, they took exception, they said something actually similar, I explained my actual position and we came to a consensus.

Because you go into my posts just deciding I'm wishy washy: you did it last day phase and then backtracked and then did the same thing now. It's pretty obvious that there's a certain kind of player I really struggle with reading, and we happen to have a fair amount of them in Thai game. People who are actually trying to read me, like eir and honestly bbt, are reading me right.

I am town reading bbt. Pointing the tsq nk at him is like level 0 of a read.

I don't have a solve ready. That's not how I play.

Also I was in that lost game, I'd rather not elim bbt day one

I'm thinking Bella Aisa
But only dubiously on Aisa

[Elements]

oops, forgot I had those selected

[Elements]

Yea, that's why I'm dubious on you

[Elements]

Thanks BBT ^^
I think TSQ comes out of this looking towny. Tbh I feel them getting a bit of a point. I can also see this reaction from Town!BBT, but I think it's a little scum indicative overall, sorry.

[Elements]

You're still very much in my to sort pool but if I had to give a team right now it would be you and Bella

[Elements]

I have not

[Elements]

I don't have the attention span for meta

[Elements]

Eira town unless frog scum then I'm not sure

[Elements]

VOTE: Eiralox

Interesting, tell me more

[Elements]

I don't have the attention span for meta

Eira town unless frog scum then I'm not sure

Can you also explain why that is?

Eira!scum could have easily pushed through a frog!town lim yesterday to give BBT another day

[Elements]

People who think Bella is town, why?

[Elements]

Fire and Elements aren't really scumreads yet, but at this point in the game they make me uneasy. Especially since with how narrow the suspect pool is (fmpov), at least one of them is likely mafia unless a lurker slot ends up flipping red.

Do you still hold this view?

[Elements]

@frog, what is your position on Aisa after the recent deaths?

[Elements]

Anyways who is ur townreads besides aisa and bella and why are they town

Aisa and bella, full stop.

Are these still your only town reads?

[Elements]

I dislike that NM didn't vote BBT at all

[Elements]

Anyways who is ur townreads besides aisa and bella and why are they town

Aisa and bella, full stop.

Are these still your only town reads?

bella is town.

Why?

[Elements]

Anyways who is ur townreads besides aisa and bella and why are they town

Aisa and bella, full stop.

Are these still your only town reads?

bella is town.

Thanks BBT ^^
I think TSQ comes out of this looking towny. Tbh I feel them getting a bit of a point. I can also see this reaction from Town!BBT, but I think it's a little scum indicative overall, sorry.

ISO'd you and I suppose that's at least vaguely consistent with the timing of when you first started to say I was scum.
How does that post mean I'm partnered with BBT, though?

I don’t think you’ve answered this.

I don't have the attention span for meta

Eira town unless frog scum then I'm not sure

Can you also explain why that is?

Eira!scum could have easily pushed through a frog!town lim yesterday to give BBT another day

Re: the meta thing, that’s fine, but I’m not sure what you’re quoting it again in relation to.
Re: Eira, sure

Did not mean to quote the bit about meta, phone posting is annoying.

It positions you to be able to get on the wagon if it becomes unavoidable but gives you the leaway to not have to vote BBT. It reads like you're preparing yourself for whichever way the wagon goes so you can bus/defend either way you need to

[Elements]

VOTE: Grib

[Elements]

Congrats enchant, you're my biggest town read

[Elements]

I'm liking Grib Bella now

[Elements]

Maybe Grib NM

[Elements]

And who i vote instead?

Grib

[Elements]

I'm liking Grib Bella now

For the remaining scum

[Elements]

If Frog is town, why didn't he get elimmed Day 2?

Ugh, idk

[Elements]

If Frog is town, why didn't he get elimmed Day 2?

Is Bella is town why did her wagon not gain much traction Vs two scum wagons?

[Elements]

Unless it's Bella and Frog

[Elements]

VOTE: Bella

[Elements]

My vote was pretty pivotal in getting BBT eliminated. If I had stayed on Frog, Enchant would've hammered. If I'm mafia and Frog is town, why did I do that?

Can you quote this Bella/BBT interaction you're on about, I can't find it

[Elements]

I probably owe it to Firebringer to leave you alone for now anyways.

Problem is, aside from Frog I don't have a better candidate for the last mafia. NM? I really want to believe I'm correctly townrading Bella/Eira/Aisa.

NM slots in with BBT as a partner I think

[Elements]

My vote was pretty pivotal in getting BBT eliminated. If I had stayed on Frog, Enchant would've hammered. If I'm mafia and Frog is town, why did I do that?

Can you quote this Bella/BBT interaction you're on about, I can't find it

If Bella is town, then BBT is one member of the mafia who wasn't going to touch her. He could've warned his buddies not to push that too hard.

Wrong quote

[Elements]

I'll be driving for the next couple of hours if people will still be around to talk about things after that

[Elements]

VOTE: Elements

Go boil your head

[Elements]

Anyone around?

[Elements]

I'll bite, participation may be intermittent

Do you have any thoughts on NM at all?

[Elements]

Bella can you give me a quick reads list?

[Elements]

or has it not changed at all since earlier?

[Elements]

If Bella is a partner, then BBT charged himself with protecting her. With the way he played, I don't think she's his partner. And the Firebringer kill would be hella weird after Bella openly shaded him at deadline for townreading you.

Do you think the Firebringer kill indicates me as scum more than Bella as scum?

[Elements]

Bella has been soft defending BBT the whole game. Never outright defending them, just poking at points made against them and trying to not get them voted out. I also find it difficult to find any points Bella has actually made about anything, everything is just eh. I get that it might be your play style but I'd expect at least

some

strong thoughts on the game.

Spoiler:

Also I was in that lost game,

I'd rather not elim bbt day one

I can see what bbt was saying though? Tsq kinda jumped on a thing and then was like 'haha you did a thing' when he responded. It felt like siblings more than s v s or s v t. I don't think tsq is scummy for what they did and I feel they believe in it, I still think it's lame and weird.

I might be wrong about bbt, but I have also seen him mis limmed as town a lot recently. I did feel like his engagement with me was genuine, but his lack of content today is worrying.

My approach, generally, is to find town: I've spoken about this a lot recently, even in the personality test. It's what I'm struggling with here: I think if could just lock town like, you, grib, fire, bbt and Eir that's a lot, but I'm really iffy on you and grib and bbt.

can we revisit ur townreads from say day 1. Like how did u get BBT town from ur interactions. I had skimmed it and like BBT basically never talked to u. One or two mentions and it wasn't some discussion i would say indicates anything to anyone.

So lets talk about it

This is fair. Tbf the thing I haven't made as clear as I thought was that bbt was always 'town enough ', rather than some lock town soul read and it was more the push on him that looked scumny, which made me more likely to think that he was town. I'd just been in the lost game, where he was a universal scum read for not great reasons and I was one of the scum team.

I don't wanna talk about bbt any more, it's giving aisa silly ideas.

If the final wagons are bbt v frog then we should do frog.

I am town reading bbt. Pointing the tsq nk at him is like level 0 of a read.

Then BBT flips scum

@fire, I'm starting to think you just don't like way I post.

I really thought I had day one more sorted, there was deffo scum inElements/ hpe/tsq/frog/n_m/maybe fire.

I want to look again at

eir

, who was another slot I wavered on.

The worlds largest scum pool

[Elements]

I think FB was a weird kill all round.

Did you think Fire was scum?

[Elements]

Not_Mafia
Has vote for: Me (biggest wagon), Aisa (making it the biggest wagon), Bella (weren't really any wagons at the time), Frog (biggest wagon)
The only biggest wagon NM didn't voted for was BBT. Both day 1 and day 2.
Conclusion: NM fits with BBT as scum

[Elements]

This post is @BBT but I don't feel like quoting his large post.

[...]

Regarding the buddying and my request of your past town games, I thought that maybe you just wanted to have a villager pocketed and picked Bella by having an empty (meta) townread on her. When I asked you about your past meta reads, I didn't mean on Bella specifically, I was referring to any instance where you were a villager and relied on meta to read someone else. Because if this isn't something you normally do as a villager, then it just looks like a fake townread.

I just quickly went through BBT's mentions of Bella and I'm shrug. Meta townread that was "good enough" for Day 1, then he says he has no confidence in actually reading her, and now it's Day 2 and it feels like he's veeery lightly shading her while also keeping her in his stronger townleans. Since his Day 1 read wasn't strong, I imagine a reevaluation of that read (or at least sanity checking it) would be a pretty natural course of development, but he's kind of just holding onto the initial empty read. I think the most substance it has is when he mentioned that Bella is more hesitant/fence-sitty as scum, and he liked that she had early reads.

I just suspect that this read in particular isn't real.

[...]

Hmm ok so your town read on Bella is based on BBT's scum!meta? Is this meta from 1 game or from multiple games?

[Elements]

If Bella is a partner, then BBT charged himself with protecting her. With the way he played, I don't think she's his partner. And the Firebringer kill would be hella weird after Bella openly shaded him at deadline for townreading you.

Do you think the Firebringer kill indicates me as scum more than Bella as scum?

Yes.

But I’m by no means locked onto that. Just need a healthy amount of discussion and different perspectives.

So I hard bus my partner and then kill of the only person that's town reading me?

[Elements]

Elements, how is Enchant your strongest townread?

Very relaxed tone and despite being a self declared "idiot as both alignemts" still manages to have strong opinions that I think have made an impact on the game.

[Elements]

So when he said his Bella read was based on meta, that set off alarm bells. I’m leaning towards that fake read being used to pocket Bella, rather than shield her from pressure.

Why do you think it's more likely a pocket attempt?

[Elements]

@Enchant what is your current stance on Aisa?

[Elements]

Even without Firebringer, I’d say you still aren’t really anyone’s first elim choice. You have a pretty easygoing vibe that makes it hard to scumread you, imo.

This is the first time anyone has said it makes it hard to read you. I don't think I've played a game where I haven't been wagoned day 1. In at least half of my games I get voted out day 1 or 2

[Elements]

Even without Firebringer, I’d say you still aren’t really anyone’s first elim choice. You have a pretty easygoing vibe that makes it hard to scumread you, imo.

This is the first time anyone has said it makes it hard to scumread me. I don't think I've played a game where I haven't been wagoned day 1. In at least half of my games I get voted out day 1 or 2

ebwop

[Elements]

the problem I have with "way too easy" reasoning is that just proves it isn't
if that makes sense

[Elements]

Not_Mafia
Has vote for: Me (biggest wagon), Aisa (making it the biggest wagon), Bella (weren't really any wagons at the time), Frog (biggest wagon)
The only biggest wagon NM didn't voted for was BBT. Both day 1 and day 2.
Conclusion: NM fits with BBT as scum

Are you actually town?

P-edit, trust me I wouldn't be as shit as I was day one/early day as scum.

Yes, and why that particular quote?

[Elements]

I guess another reason I'm recently considering a scumread on you is it seems like you're playing differently now that BBT flipped. You're super gung-ho on gamesolving now but for the rest of the game it was drive-by votes and one-liners.

I'm so hyped by this game right now ngl. I thought I was gonna get night killed. I really wanted BBT flipped because I thought he was scum and that it gives us lots of interactions and voting to look at (which I think it has) and now we have it I wanna dive deep.
Also neurodivergence will do that to you

[Elements]

I think I was really clear that I never had a lock town town read on bbt

That's like my whole point. You were half defending him but weren't hard committing cos there was so much pressure there you couldn't save the slot.

I'm also coming round to eira/NM scum but I haven't gone through eira yet so there's still that

[Elements]

You're super gung-ho on gamesolving now but for the rest of the game it was drive-by votes and one-liners.

Don't expect it to last.

[Elements]

Earlier today I tried to meta Elements. I was leaning towards a townread and kind of looking for information to support that, but couldn't really find anything super solid.

Elem town games:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=85772
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=85877

Elem scum games:
viewtopic.php?f=54&t=80648
viewtopic.php?f=54&t=83059

The one thing I've noticed is that she seemed slightly more "solvey" overall as town, and loves mech spec as scum. She's also been more solvey tonight than I've noticed in any of the games I skimmed. I'm not super sure on this one, but I think she may be town.

(Housemate situation: I decided to be a responsible adult and say hi)

I also haven't played for a couple of years if you want to factor that into it. I've got some off site games including a recent scum one if you want me to link you to that

[Elements]

WOAT?

[Elements]

Latest Scum game:
https://warwick-mafia.freeforums.net/th ... eater-idea

Other games from that site:
as mattready - https://warwick-mafia.freeforums.net/th ... s-disguise - Town - ew just made me read my deadname

https://warwick-mafia.freeforums.net/bo ... afia-games - there are a few others on here if you decide you wanted to look.

Yea only look if you want to, I just thought I'd share the most recent scum game I've played seeing as you were looking at my meta and I haven't played in a while

[Elements]

Expect to see some posts from me when you wake up. Possible pointed at you. I'm half running down the player list looking at people in between interacting with the active people

[Elements]

Have good sleeps

[Elements]

Disclaimer: I'm going to treat myself as town for this analysis because that takes out a variable and makes this easier for me.

People who voted the wagons day 2:

BBT: Grib, Elements, Frog, Eira, Aisa, Enchant

Frog: Enchant, Aisa, Bella, BBT, NM, Fire


Case where Frog is town:

End of day was Aisa and Enchant picking between BBT and Frog. Aisa voted BBT, Enchant hammered. Aisa town, Enchant prob town. I think Enchant could've voted BBT and and Aisa would've switched to get a lim through.
That gets us to:
Enchant, Fire, Aisa, Elements town. So likely for the BBT lim to go through over the Frog lim I think the team has to be Bella, BBT, NM. I don't think NM unvotes Frog as scum in that situation but it is NM so....
I think I've just convinced myself Frog is scum.

VOTE: Frog

[Elements]

Onto the Frog is scum case:

People who voted the wagons day 2:

BBT: Grib, Elements, Frog, Eira, Aisa, Enchant

Frog: Enchant, Aisa, Bella, BBT, NM, Fire

Case where Frog is scum:

BBT voting Frog could've started out as distancing maybe? When it was clear they were the only viable wagons I don't think them voting each other says anything. I guess that's more rlly assuming Frog is scum but I wanted to say it.
My NM not voting BBT kinda falls apart a bit actually as NM did vote Frog. But unvoted at the end of the day?
I think there would've had to be a big scum discussion about who to bus and masterful handling of the end of the day for Aisa to be the third scum.
Grib scum and me scum are the same case I think here?
I haven't read through Eira yet so maybe this is premature but I can see that being scum?

This analysis has been vastly swayed by my current reads so take it how you will.

I'd like to lim in [NM, Frog, Eira] today I think

[Elements]

Those posts I think also fairly well sum up my Aisa opinions

[Elements]

Lol I'm not scum with BBT, officer. I swear, honestly

This is fun

You were in the LOST game, you definitely saw me casing numerous people

No, I didn't see you do much of that in LOST.

This is Frog's only interaction with BBT
There's little to no interaction with Bella, Eira, and NM either. But there is a town read on Bella.

oh wait, there's another interaction with BBT that is Frog saying he'd get back to BBT which he never did.

Not sure why town!Frog doesn't interact with BBT when he doesn't really have a read on BBT for a fair bit of that game.
I can see Frog not knowing how to interact "well" with a scum partner (that's something I find hard) and from BBT's push on frog at the start of day 1 being distancing that they decided to keep up. The not knowing how to interact with scum partners also ties into my NM/Eira being the 3rd scum theory as there aren't any reads on either of those two I could find n Frog's iso.
I'm worried this is now me thinking up ways in which Frog!scum works and then using that to enforce my scum!Frog read

I think frog should be our flip today. I think he's scum, and if he's town the end of the day yesterday is mad wagon analysis.

[Elements]

what made you feel better about bellaphant?

Bella is who I would vote if you/NM/Frog all came out as ICs. She's my next port of call if I'm wrong about you 3. So it's less feeling better about Bella and more feeling better about my scumreads elsewhere

[Elements]

There's residual tiltage from you voting me with nothing else. You're still on my list to iso (it's you and grib left) so my thoughts on you might change

[Elements]

while you're here what are your thoughts on Bella, Frog, and Enchant?

[Elements]

has BBT rolled scum before?

[Elements]

enchant is a pointy eared mystery.

Similar thoughts on NM?

[Elements]

So I've looked at a few of BBT's scum games and have noticed something:

Newbie 2099 - Calls partner scum and votes them
Newbie 2096 - Calls partner scum and votes them
Mini Normal 2016 - Buddy1: Starts with not much of a read then ends up bussing, Buddy2: Scum reads early and votes

BBT likes to bus!
BBT has voted all of Frog/NM/Eira and pushed Frog yesterday.
It all points to Frog!scum.

[Elements]

Grib, Aisa and me?

[Elements]

Ugh
I'm getting bogged down trying to get through Grib and Eira's iso
this always happens. I leave the longer ISOs to last and then get tired before I get through them

[Elements]

Grib, Aisa and me?

no comment.

why not?

[Elements]

frog scummy but awol, like talking about bigfoot at this point.

You say you don't think talking about people who aren't active isn't particularly helpful yet aren't helpful now I'm trying to interact with you?

[Elements]

Grib, Aisa and me?

no comment.

care to explain this part of your play style?

[Elements]

You are infuriating

[Elements]

What do you want to talk about?

[Elements]

warning for if we continue talking, there is a high chance I will just fall asleep

[Elements]

I really wanted BBT to flip. For similar reasons to why I want to flip frog today. I think the slot is scum and there's a lot of interactions to look at either way. At the start of day 2 I really thought we should've voted BBT out day 1.
As for why those 3:
Fire was my strongest town read
Grib had voted BBT before so there was a high chance of voting there again
Aisa was the deciding vote for the day and I wanted a BBT flip

[Elements]

Who are you thinking of voting today?

[Elements]

Boooo!

[Elements]

Is there anyone you're will to discuss with me?

[Elements]

*willing

[Elements]

So Enchant

[Elements]

I think I'm gonna sleep now

[Elements]

So Enchant

what bout?

If Scum who the third?

[Elements]

Have good dreams

[Elements]

@elements, is your analysis the end wagons, or people who were on Ans off? I tried to find a helpful VC but realised they all ended up showing a fairly wrong picture of events.

It was any one who voted them
I was going for a "these people were willing to vote here" angle

[Elements]

I'm hoping the partner is implicated here. Will look closer when I wake up.

I'm excited to see where this goes!

[Elements]

@Frog, where are your reads at with Aisa and Bella after the last couple of flips?

[Elements]

I had some things to say that are better left unsaid.

Is it time for you to say them yet?

[Elements]

Boo!

Seconded

[Elements]

any reason for NM over Frog?

[Elements]

Once we kill the second mafia I’m not opposed to kicking NM out of the game next.

Are you opposed to kicking nm out the game before the second mafia and if so why?

[Elements]

Me, Grib, Eira, Bella have all expressed interest in voting Frog again and we've still got 3 days left.
Short of waiting for frog to come and say something or nm doing literally anything. What is everyone interested in talking about for the rest of the day?

[Elements]

Is it to early to ask frog to claim?

[Elements]

Booooo!

[Elements]

it is E-2

[Elements]

Why i have bad feeling

Is it because you know Frog is going to flip town?

[Elements]

Is it to early to ask frog to claim?

This is role phishing

You're right. asking the person that is almost unanimously scumread to claim is phishing

[Elements]

Firebringer died last night. He was a

Spoiler:

Vanilla Townie

@everyone townreading Elements for D3

I'm assuming that the Fire kill was a failed TPR hunt. If anyone wants to challenge me on that claim then come at me.

Most of us are coming at you. Just because you thought Fire was cop with an inno on me doesn't mean anyone else did.

With that in mind, what do you think Elements is trying to accomplish on page 61 with this series of questions:

Spoiler:

@Frog, where are your reads at with Aisa and Bella after the last couple of flips?

I had some things to say that are better left unsaid.

Is it time for you to say them yet?

any reason for NM over Frog?

Once we kill the second mafia I’m not opposed to kicking NM out of the game next.

Are you opposed to kicking nm out the game before the second mafia and if so why?

Is it to early to ask frog to claim?

I'm not saying that any of you are stupid for not noticing this because IIRC I was one of the first to trust Elements on D1. I didn't find much reason to suspect Elements on D1 but I'm

high

certainty that Elements is scum based on their D2 and D3 play. On D2 Elements is the best candidate to be a/the busser on BBT and on D3 Elements is trying to narrow down an investigative TPR. For example, in 1518 Elements is trying to figure out whether Grib specifically has an

inno

on NM. That is like...the only point to that question and I don't think that it can be Town motivated.

I can also say that I'm pretty sure (maybe

moderate

certainty) there is a scum roleblocker and I'm

low

certainty that Elements is the scum roleblocker.

Me trying to interact with you is not "narrowing down for a pr". You literally said yourself "if you want to read me talk to me not about me" I tried to do that and now you're calling me scum. You have given 0 reads these last 2 days except whoever is easiest to attack at the time, and Aisa. Hence me asking you about Aisa. As you

may

have noticed I've been enjoying this game quite a bit recently and we had that explosion of activity you all but ignored. I ran out of things I wanted to say and so when there were new things to interact with I jumped on them.

Killing Fire as a TPR hunt and saying there's a mafia roleblocker reads as TMI to me.

Perhaps if you actually gave reads people would be less likely to want to vote you.

[Elements]

The number of buzz-words used in these last few posts is mad

[Elements]

I had some things to say that are better left unsaid.

Is it time for you to say them yet?[/quote]
You still haven't said what these things are/were

[Elements]

@eira as it's the topic of the day, what do you make of Frog's return?

[Elements]

So I've looked over a few of Frog's games and the only other game I found him saying things like "I think x is scum with high certainty" or any reads along those lines was a game in which he was SK. Didn't do it in any of the town or scum games I looked through.
I have no idea what this means

[Elements]

Disclaimer: I'm going to treat myself as town for this analysis because that takes out a variable and makes this easier for me.

Okay here is what I was looking for earlier. The problem with the VCA Elements has presented is that it doesn't include the impact of their own vote on the wagon movements. I think this disclaimer is an example of lampshading which is NAI (I think?) What's scummy in Elements ISO is the use of VCA to explain their reads because it helps to project the image of being reasonable while not requiring any descriptions for how they feel about given players.

A point which is completely undermined by the fact I actually give reads in separate posts unlike you

[Elements]

Frog's entire 'case' on me is that I'm TPR hunting because I've been asking people about their reads. That is literally all you do in mafia. Ask people about their reads. That's ALL there is to do. Frog is trying to push me on the basis of me playing the game.

[Elements]

Apologies for the indignant mini-rant but I'm annoyed and wanted to get it out my system

[Elements]

Everything you're saying is such garbage

[Elements]

Disclaimer: I'm going to treat myself as town for this analysis because that takes out a variable and makes this easier for me.

Okay here is what I was looking for earlier. The problem with the VCA Elements has presented is that it doesn't include the impact of their own vote on the wagon movements. I think this disclaimer is an example of lampshading which is NAI (I think?) What's scummy in Elements ISO is the use of VCA to explain their reads because it helps to project the image of being reasonable while not requiring any descriptions for how they feel about given players.

A point which is completely undermined by the fact I actually give reads in separate posts unlike you

...says the active posting scum player to the lurking town slot who accuses them

Pings me back to this scum poster from one of my first games:

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=84085&start=325

FMPOV Elements is acting like a deep scum who got caught off guard thanks to yours truly.

Jeez, get off your high horse and stop massaging your own ego

[Elements]

Why are you not commenting of Grin's push on you?

[Elements]

Grib's push on you started before mine and you haven't commented on that

[Elements]

You've only mentioned the "stratigic" lurking argument which was not the basis for Grib's scum read on you, only a supporting theory

[Elements]

I'm ready

Ready as well.

This probably isn't the best thing to say but please put me out of my misery and vote Frog. He's really triggering me right now and I just want him to flip

[Elements]

"oh look elements is trying to rush the Frog lim so he can't expose them as scum"

[Elements]

Everything you're saying is such garbage

Jeez, get off your high horse and stop massaging your own ego

CAUGHT SCUM CAUGHT SCUM
SCUM CAUGHT SCUM
CAUGHT
CAUGHT SCUM

If you could maybe go for a quick walk, off the edge of a cliff or something, I'd be very grateful

[Elements]

Sorry Frog, I know this is how you have to play having rolled scum but it just really gets on my nerves

[Elements]

I do not believe the doctor claim

[Elements]

If frog is town, there is scum in [Grib/Bella]

[Elements]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Elements

Why not NM?

[Elements]

I do not believe the doctor claim

Rationale?

I don't think frog is this bad at the game

[Elements]

And you can crumb a role as scum

[Elements]

Elements is a fucking busser

I despise you send your whole family

[Elements]

What does macho mean?

[Elements]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Elements

Why not NM?

Are you going to answer this?

[Elements]

Cannot be protected.

Ugh
UNVOTE:

[Elements]

Vig, shoot Grib tonight

[Elements]

Then I'm thinking it's NM or Bella