Mini Normal 2285: GM [game over]
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Herta Mafia Scum
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Kitty ManiaIn post 13, KittyTacky wrote:I am in a very manic state today so bear with me lol.-
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31 gives val a starting point for sure. We'll see what he does with it from here.In post 32, Toto wrote:Val prob town or very good maf-
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Nah there's no sane reason to over-analyze this unless you're tryharding yourself.In post 37, Val89 wrote:
Easy to miss in general? Sure, maybe.In post 33, Herta wrote:The IC post would be easy to miss for me
Easy for the player who is try-harding enough to draw something AI from 3 'hi' posts? Not buying it.
I double don't buy it when I note the slots Scoliosis didn't comment on - KT, because the voting pattern specifically drew attention to Toto, and FlippyNips, who also didn't vote (and if fact explicitly disclaimed voting D1).
I'm wanting to give this a bit of space now, but I do also want to encourage people to actually think through the thought process that results in post 20 and evaluate if it actually makes sense before handing out free passes.
I understand the tendency to shrug and say 'eh, whatever' since I know we aren't catching scum in the first page most of the time, but if that is the conclusion you come to let's make that a considered conclusion at least.-
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Good vote I think.In post 54, Testarossa wrote:
This statement strikes me a bit as odd. There is nothing exceptional to comment on yet you are fine with waving through the townleans made so far? For 1,5 pages that's kind of exceptional imo. Feels like a statement for a statement's sake.In post 40, Church wrote: Skimming the game before I sleep, nothing stands out as exceptional enough to comment on yet. The townleans are fine for now.
VOTE: Church
VOTE: church-
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A spirited post here.In post 59, Church wrote:
As for you, why do you think it's good? Is it that you agree with what's been said so far, or that you have something else you believe I've done that is scummy?In post 56, Herta wrote:
Good vote I think.In post 54, Testarossa wrote:
This statement strikes me a bit as odd. There is nothing exceptional to comment on yet you are fine with waving through the townleans made so far? For 1,5 pages that's kind of exceptional imo. Feels like a statement for a statement's sake.In post 40, Church wrote: Skimming the game before I sleep, nothing stands out as exceptional enough to comment on yet. The townleans are fine for now.
VOTE: Church
VOTE: church-
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I figured you had a reason.In post 64, skitter30 wrote:
What do you think of my vote on you?In post 39, Herta wrote:Nah there's no sane reason to over-analyze this unless you're tryharding yourself.-
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By meta I don't think kitty's scum.In post 65, skitter30 wrote:
Scoliosis is obviously town and i'm starting to scumread youIn post 45, KittyTacky wrote:My Scoliosis townread is kinda eroding ngl. The last 2 posts just seem to be looking to be made to start an early push (it's 2 pages in) on pretty flimsy reasoning.-
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YouIn post 74, skitter30 wrote:
If you make a statement like 'by meta i don't think kitty's scum', i would expect you to be able to elaborate a bit more on itIn post 71, Herta wrote:That's all I got
Why did you say that you don't think he's scum?expectthat of me? Let's see here. You didn't ask the question, Toto did. I don't give much mind to what you demand wrt why I meta read Kitty town right now. Do you have reason to disbelieve me? If so lay it out. Otherwise if you're that curious why don't you dig up some Kitty games and take a spin? God knows I'm not going to do it for you.
Or you can rephrase your question because you come off pretty aggro on that and maybe I'll be more amenable to give you a better answer.
Why did you ask me what I thought of you voting me? I haven't seen a follow-up to that yet and it seemed kinda important to you at the time?-
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In post 32, Toto wrote:Val prob town or very good maf
Do you have any comments on posts between 47 and 70 other than the post immediately before your 70?In post 70, Toto wrote:In post 69, Herta wrote:
By meta I don't think kitty's scum.In post 65, skitter30 wrote:
Scoliosis is obviously town and i'm starting to scumread youIn post 45, KittyTacky wrote:My Scoliosis townread is kinda eroding ngl. The last 2 posts just seem to be looking to be made to start an early push (it's 2 pages in) on pretty flimsy reasoning.
Tell us more-
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And why did you vote church anyway.In post 88, Herta wrote:In post 32, Toto wrote:Val prob town or very good maf
Do you have any comments on posts between 47 and 70 other than the post immediately before your 70?In post 70, Toto wrote:In post 69, Herta wrote:
By meta I don't think kitty's scum.In post 65, skitter30 wrote:
Scoliosis is obviously town and i'm starting to scumread youIn post 45, KittyTacky wrote:My Scoliosis townread is kinda eroding ngl. The last 2 posts just seem to be looking to be made to start an early push (it's 2 pages in) on pretty flimsy reasoning.
Tell us more-
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Fair enough. Every game I've played with kitty that he's been reasonably engaged and stick-to-his-guns as in going deep on a hunch and apparent genuine curiosity he's been town. There's one difference but I'm going to sit on that right now and let it develop to help my read because I'm not sure about an aspect of it.In post 91, skitter30 wrote:@herta i was going to ask the exact question but i continued reading and saw toto did and didnt see a point in asking it twice
But when you didnt really explain when toto asked you (71) i decided to ask 74
Usually when someone says something like 'i don't think x is scum by meya' i expect them to (be able to) follow up that statement with a sentence or two of an explanation explaining their reasoning and how they got to that conclusion
You've made the claim, the onus is on you to back it up, not on me to start reading old kitty games
I don't have any particular reason to disbelieve that statement, but i don't have any reason to believe it either, and i want to know why you made it
And i asked cuz i was curious if you had any thoughts on it-
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Oh and it's a bit early to say he's gone deep but the signs are there.In post 93, Herta wrote:
Fair enough. Every game I've played with kitty that he's been reasonably engaged and stick-to-his-guns as in going deep on a hunch and apparent genuine curiosity he's been town. There's one difference but I'm going to sit on that right now and let it develop to help my read because I'm not sure about an aspect of it.In post 91, skitter30 wrote:@herta i was going to ask the exact question but i continued reading and saw toto did and didnt see a point in asking it twice
But when you didnt really explain when toto asked you (71) i decided to ask 74
Usually when someone says something like 'i don't think x is scum by meya' i expect them to (be able to) follow up that statement with a sentence or two of an explanation explaining their reasoning and how they got to that conclusion
You've made the claim, the onus is on you to back it up, not on me to start reading old kitty games
I don't have any particular reason to disbelieve that statement, but i don't have any reason to believe it either, and i want to know why you made it
And i asked cuz i was curious if you had any thoughts on it-
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When you can.In post 85, Herta wrote:Why did you ask me what I thought of you voting me? I haven't seen a follow-up to that yet and it seemed kinda important to you at the time?-
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Oops sorry I forgot you're IC.In post 96, Toto wrote:
Not really, I figured as conftown I don't bring a lot of value to the conversation other than my own flawed reads.In post 88, Herta wrote:Do you have any comments on posts between 47 and 70 other than the post immediately before your 70?
Carry on.-
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While I did forget that you're IC, that kinda makes this question even more important I think.In post 97, Toto wrote:
Why else, he sounded scummy, why are you asking me?In post 90, Herta wrote:And why did you vote church anyway.-
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I thought I was in a 1v1 with Toto, which I was but I didn't need to be because IC.In post 122, skitter30 wrote:
Ig i'm not sure how you can tell he's displaying these traits at this pointIn post 93, Herta wrote:Every game I've played with kitty that he's been reasonably engaged and stick-to-his-guns as in going deep on a hunch and apparent genuine curiosity he's been town.
Why weren't you willing to answer this question before?-
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I wanted to see how far he'd go with me. Nothing changed except I figured out to drop it.In post 139, skitter30 wrote:
I ... am not even sure how to approach this fully as i don't think they're similar at allIn post 128, unwnd wrote:Could you give a contrast between Herta/Church? I think their posting style is actually similar
Herta - i felt a lot of fluffiness/wishy-washyness/agreeing-to-agree in early posts like 33, 34, 35, bandwagon-y church vote, statements that they didn't seen willing (or able) to back up (like the kitty townread off of meta), and the whole 'i don't want to answer these questions' thing
Church - thought 40 was fine, don't love that they've mostly interacted with their wagon thus far and want to see what their content looks like when they come back
Pedit oh dear i hope you find it >.>
Can you explain 137 again plz? Why did you not want to answer the question because you were in a 1v1, and how does him being ic change that?-
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I'll probably find some time at the office.In post 138, Herta wrote:I lost my phone so will be even slower than usual until I figure out what I'm doing with that.-
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gera what happened here?In post 36, Herta wrote:Posting here on a hunch.-
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In post 301, Herta wrote:
gera what happened here? I felt let down.In post 36, Herta wrote:Posting here on a hunch.In post 18, geraintm wrote:this game has taken so long to get going, ive been in the queue for ages
im going tobe so out of my depth with this game, excuses now for bumbling through it.
anyways, Wales off to play Iran in 19 minutes. i am hopeful of a 2-1 Welsh win-
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Actually what is this your I'm an inept clown scum game? I've seen that before.In post 18, geraintm wrote:im going tobe so out of my depth with this game, excuses now for bumbling through it.-
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In post 308, unwnd wrote:No no, more specifically how I feel like you're easily distracted
I don't know what you mean by distracted.In post 309, unwnd wrote:Honestly why are you voting gera for a post he made ~9 pages ago? Why is this now your new distraction-
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If you think that's true why do you have a problem with it?In post 326, unwnd wrote:Your posts don't seem like they're going anywhere
That is my fundamental problem with you, you're just sorta involved with various things at surface level-
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Well you're right re geraintm and it took me a minute to think about it and I voted him out of frustration more than anything. I don't remember who said that geraintm's lack of caring about day 1 smacked scummy, but geraintm does that every game. He does, however, know how to use that as a scum tool -- I have seen him explicitly state it in scum PTs. He did assign naughty points where I thought he should for the most part. I don't think he's anything other than null right now.In post 626, Val89 wrote:
Yes, unfortunately, you can.In post 572, geraintm wrote:[i have not been very engaged so far this game, can you tell?]
I'm asking myself if scum!geraintm makes that post. My initial thoughts are that geraintm smells like LHF here - if scum!geraintm's game plan is to hang back and lurk it down, they could have done a better job without this. This "page 17 was a bunch of crap and that's important to note"; "my RVS vote is being shading by scum" etc seem like they could well be surface-level thoughts by town not really enganing.
I have seen some hints scattered around that indicate perhaps those initial thoughts aren't to be trusted with geraintm in particular. I'm feeling a touch on the lazy side, so if someone who thinks there are meta reasons to be reading geraintm differently then pointers will be gratefully received.In post 303, Herta wrote:Actually what is this your I'm an inept clown scum game? I've seen that before.
There are a lot of heavy hitters in this game and it looks like egos clashing.
I do think skitter has scum equity. When town she's fairly generous in her analysis and looks at things from a more open point of view. Here I'm finding her not doing that so much. It's like she's picking at little things maybe that I don't think she usually does.-
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No I really don't. If you don't think I'm not addressing things I find important you're confbiasing or something.In post 654, Dannflor wrote:
I don't understand this postIn post 624, Herta wrote:I don't think scum (Dann) enters with a case like that against lhf (me). If it was a chainsaw like Pooky said it seems there are easier ways to do that?
wouldn't a case against "lhf" be the easiest way to chainsaw
this reads like appeasement and isn't actually helpful to anyone trying to read you correctly if you're town
you need to talk about your opinions on scoliosis (who you just voted!!) or Pooky or like anything else important
I'm not a major wagon right now it doesn't matter that you town read me-
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No I think geraintm is solidly null at this point. I think your point it could be a rope a dope strat or not is valid. But as I type that it seems you're not really committing so I don't know.In post 715, Val89 wrote:
Nevermind, I found it. Would still like clarification as to what you think I am right about though? You think gera is LHF and regret the vote there?In post 688, Val89 wrote:In post 651, Herta wrote:
He does, however, know how to use that as a scum tool -- I have seen him explicitly state it in scum PTs.
That's the sort of thing I was looking for, and if you have a specific game in mind I would be grateful.-
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What on earth are you even talking about?In post 848, skitter30 wrote:
They don't have a lot of more serious content to even out their postingIn post 837, innocentvillager wrote:the inane comments thing also applies to geraint/basically everyone who has shitposted at any point so I don’t really see how that’s unique to herta-
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How is your play in this game different fromIn post 850, geraintm wrote:
I am 90% sure if people take time to look at my posts over a game I can easily be spotted as scum. I know my posts (and votes) are different as scum and I can't help it.In post 838, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:also his "i become readable over time" is kind of bullshit since he literally won at endgame viewtopic.php?p=13483106#p13483106
by barely playing the entire game.
I have zero idea why people struggle to spot me as scum.
There is no way I should ever be allowed to get to an end game any more without being checked, last game I begged and begged for people to look over me early doors so I wouldn't be a problem later.
Subject: Mini 2273: SDTLLSP 2 | Mafia Hideout
geraintm wrote:Hi.
I've never played with a traitor before either, so this is going to be weird.
I don't think we've played together before.
I will be useless day 1, I will sit there and moan and about pointless it is. My vote is very, very unlikely to be on the final wagon
People will hate me day 1, and at some point either day 1 or day 2 there will be a push to eliminate me, but I can usually count on enough people I've played with to go "oh, that's just the way he plays" for it not to matter-
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So what are you talking about?In post 879, skitter30 wrote:
For example, why is this the only thing you chose to respond to?In post 851, Herta wrote:
What on earth are you even talking about?In post 848, skitter30 wrote:
They don't have a lot of more serious content to even out their postingIn post 837, innocentvillager wrote:the inane comments thing also applies to geraint/basically everyone who has shitposted at any point so I don’t really see how that’s unique to herta-
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Looking at votes
Pooky's scoliosis push pretty quickly faded. He riled up everyone and unwnd votes sco in 458, Pooky at 459, Toto at 498, Herta at 508,. Then unwnd unvotes at 512 and Pooky unvotes at 555. At 557 Pooky says he's going to go back to scoliosis and he goes on to vote geraintm at 794 and just kind of drops the scoliosis push altogether while still talking smack about him.
Skitter votes me at 38 for reasons I still don't understand, unvotes at 462 because there's no wagon, and then revotes me at 607. She has pretty much sheeped Dann's case on me, which isn't a good one.
KittyTacky is doing what I would expect a town KittyTacky to do, tunnel on his initial read, which is scum!scoliosis who he voted at 11 and hasn't moved of of.
Ydra hasn't voted for anyone other than Pooky at 335 and then an unvote at 465. I don't remember Ydra being so uncommital but I don't remember a lot about their play in general.
Freedom has made one vote, geraintm at 722, and hasn't really committed to anything.
It took Val a long time to move off of his skitter vote at 106, when he voted scoliosis at 930, despite the obvious fact that there has been no will to wagon skitter all Day.
Geraintm has an RVS vote on me at 44, that he says is RVS but if you look at the post it doesn't look like RVS. No commitment to anything from him.
Dannflor's vote record looks okay: unwnd at 167 (could be RVS), Pooky at 419, Herta at 520, scoliosis at 749, geraintm at 866, and scoliosis again at 929, and the more I look at it the votes on unwnd, Pooky and Herta weren't really wagon votes so I think he looks better than what I had the impression of.
scoliosis doesn't look opportunistic, Val at 20, ydra at 41, skitter at 284, pooky at 468, unwnd at 551 and geraintm at 579. None of them were being wagoned except for the vote on ydra(church) was starting a wagon, and the vote on geraintm was the second vote.
Innocent Villager voted me at 79, pooky at 104 and geraintm at 107 with an unvote at 871. There's nothing scummy.
unwnd votes scoliosis at 458 after Pooky's case and unvotes at 512 when scoliosis says something to change their mind, geraintm at 753 sheeping IV with an unvote at 945.
I'd have KittyTacky and Innocentvillager as town. Maybe Val, Dann, unwnd as null town. geraintm as null scummish, freedom as null, Ydra as null, scoliosis as null scummish, Pooky as null scummish. Skitter as scum.
There's nothing really distinct btween Ydra and freedom. I could see being very wrong on Dann, unwnd and/or Pooky. My pool for today would be geraintm, scoliosis and skitter.-
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What's wack?In post 1047, innocentvillager wrote:Herta’s posting vibes this page kinda wack idk-
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No it was a work in progress from the past couple of days. still is a work in progress.In post 1048, innocentvillager wrote:Herta did you write 1043 in response to Pooky..?-
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In post 1067, Toto wrote:Herta why are you scum reading skitter again?
It's pretty much her treatment of me. Her close mindedness just gotten worse as the game has progressed. Typically she is able to at least see what I'm seeing even if she doesn't agree with it.In post 651, Herta wrote:I do think skitter has scum equity. When town she's fairly generous in her analysis and looks at things from a more open point of view. Here I'm finding her not doing that so much. It's like she's picking at little things maybe that I don't think she usually does.-
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