Mini Normal 2285: GM [game over]

[KittyTacky]

I had thoughts about training some neural networks on Mafia games and having them play against each other. Mafia Simulator.

[KittyTacky]

I kinda want to hear ydrasse’s info. It could be scum didn’t think I had a shot and shot at FB?

Or FB is just lying and is scum in order to clear himself.

Yeah my eval of skitter depends on that info.

[KittyTacky]

i’m disloyal checker and got no result when i check skitter

OK that's an inno. You're literally a cop.

[KittyTacky]

???

disloyal checker go through on wolf not town
i got no result

you got roleblocked by me tho?

I thought you JKed skitter not Ydra.

Jailkeeps stop all actions from hitting the target including kills

That is wrong, you're thinking of rolestopper. It's not like a Town of Salem jailor.

[KittyTacky]

I had thoughts about training some neural networks on Mafia games and having them play against each other. Mafia Simulator.

I have a toy alphazero like framework somewhere I can dig up if you are serious.

Sure lol.

[KittyTacky]

I kinda want to hear ydrasse’s info. It could be scum didn’t think I had a shot and shot at FB?

Or FB is just lying and is scum in order to clear himself.

Yeah my eval of skitter depends on that info.

You need to claim

I'm an ascetic watcher. All mafias are ninjas so I tried to confirm TI or TP roles, to no avail.

N1 - pooky, nobody visited
N2 - Val89, nobody visited
N3 - Toto, nobody visited

I am useless.

[KittyTacky]

Don't feel very good about Pooky still. I wanna watch that slot's actions some more.

Skitter could still be scum whiteknighting for LHF town who was likely gonna die for towncred.

I crumbed it here, kinda late but I forgot. "watch that slot"

[KittyTacky]

if you want to murder skitter, i feel like the actual decision is to flip Ydra to prove her role.
if she flips town, we know skitter got framed and is clear. (minus ascetic possibility i guess)
If flips scum then we have to flip skitter tomorrow.

Let the cop live for a while more imo.

[KittyTacky]

I kinda want to hear ydrasse’s info. It could be scum didn’t think I had a shot and shot at FB?

Or FB is just lying and is scum in order to clear himself.

Yeah my eval of skitter depends on that info.

You need to claim

I'm an ascetic watcher. All mafias are ninjas so I tried to confirm TI or TP roles, to no avail.

N1 - pooky, nobody visited
N2 - Val89, nobody visited
N3 - Toto, nobody visited

I am useless.

Why did you not visit me who was an openly claimed TP?

Because if mafia tried to kill you I wouldn't have seen them, and it was between you and the IC for Fire deciding to protect. I picked wrong.

[KittyTacky]

I just want to summon Kitty for thoughts. A vote works. No idea if she’s scum or maybe I think it *shrug*

WHY DO PEOPLE KEEP THINKING I AM A GRIL

[KittyTacky]

*girl

[KittyTacky]

We should probably be responsible and murder the tiger.

Good idea.
VOTE: skitter

Skitter literally has an inno on her...? Unless Ydra is scum too.

[KittyTacky]

Could be ascetic scum tho. Maybe.

[KittyTacky]

VOTE: Herta

Baa baa.

[KittyTacky]

I'm most likely dead tonight. Dead chat will be lonely.

[KittyTacky]

I just want to summon Kitty for thoughts. A vote works. No idea if she’s scum or maybe I think it *shrug*

WHY DO PEOPLE KEEP THINKING I AM A GRIL

I am sorry for misgendering you sir.

It's fine.

[KittyTacky]

if you want to murder skitter, i feel like the actual decision is to flip Ydra to prove her role.
if she flips town, we know skitter got framed and is clear. (minus ascetic possibility i guess)
If flips scum then we have to flip skitter tomorrow.

She got no result because you presumably JK tiger. So flipping them doesn't tell us much imo.

I just find their claim super convinient. They are now useless to town. I also don't find the claimed lack of night actions believable given wagon pressures. Also some previous potential breadcrumbs were hinting different things imo.

my action doesn't stop ydrasse action. She wouldn't get no result, she would get skitter didn't visit anyone if skitter was scum

It's a check was successful it not. It doesn't say whether someone visited someone.

Toto thought JK was like the Jailor from Town of Salem who blocked all actions performed on the jailee.

[KittyTacky]

My drunk brain thought "wait why would he need to trust tell if he's the IC" when I realized I misread.

[KittyTacky]

This setup is weird. It has a similar vibe to a bastard setup while not being bastard.

[KittyTacky]

It would be bastard deadass if Toto wasn't informed of mafias being ninjas tbh tbh.

[KittyTacky]

So here is another thing I'm wondering:

if watcher and jk target the same target, does the watcher see the JK?

Yes, why wouldn't they?

[KittyTacky]

Relevant meme I made in 2 minutes:

[KittyTacky]

I still haven’t caught up with any mech discussions (idk if anyone wants to tldr for me but nw I’ll catch up later) but gth scum is somewhere in ydr/fire/val/like maybe Herta

Ydra claimed inno on skitter. When asked to clarify, she said that she was Disloyal Checker and got no result. She decided that skitter was not Ascetic because she found Ninja Ascetic, 'goofy'.
Math claimed Doc on Firebringer, who claimed JK on skitter.
Kitty claimed Ascetic Tracker with the results of nobody visiting. His targets were Pooky, Val and Toto for N1, N2 and N3 respectively.
Pretty everybody else (minus Toto) claimed VT.

WATCHER!!!!!!!!!!!!! NOT TRACKER!

[KittyTacky]

iv could stand to go down into an iv tier but i feel like he's put his neck out in places where he really doesn't have to for people recently, he's not being looked at or anything and also he was potentially shot at (?) so
i feel better about kittytacky strictly on mechanical purposes and also my super early read, i feel like ascetic watcher makes sense but i wish we knew earlier about the ascetic part, i probably would move kt up if we had because it does come at a time where it's like... hmmm. but that's probably paranoia lol

It came up when I was asked to claim.

[KittyTacky]

why not claim watcher alone?

There are other strong PRs outed. I didn't want protection wasted on me and mafia scoring a kill on another PR.

[KittyTacky]

Well, "strong", I'm probs the shittiest one due to the ninja thing.

[KittyTacky]

if whatever i do is going to make me possible scum.
I am not helping the town.

Gonna vote my scumreads. not help any of u solve. Might not even jailkeep and save shots.
Taking my ball and going home to play by myself.
Anti town fire is here.

[KittyTacky]

Dude like yes. If you were in my shoes you’d be sus of the JK claim too man.

im literally in ur shoes on the other side.


VOTE: Skip

I want to see what scum do tonight.

Imagine if someone chooses the username "Skip" or "End Day" or "No Elimination"...

Anyways, imo this breakdown feels town-- but I'm pretty sure fire is town on mechanics anyways.

[KittyTacky]

I don't think scum would have this kind of conniption fit.

[KittyTacky]

Yeah a no yeet will just end up with mafia no-killing or taking a shot at a PR or IV. The game won't move forward and we might lose a town voice. I want somewhere within the VTs. Herta has been just

there

all game.

[KittyTacky]

and all scum are ninjas
i think that points to kitty being town
(it doesn't fit with anything else and this is a really random claim for scum to come up with)

and i think math is town because:
* no other explanation for n1
* i don't think pooky looks aligned with math given their argment when math repped in

so let's start there

pedit mafia not shooting n1 is wild
like i've never even seen such a thing wild

I think it points towards Kitty scum mechanically. (It’s at odds with my playread)

Kitty’s role is to find the TPRs.

In addition to what Skitter said, finding TPRs can be a town thing. Anyone I see is cleared completely.

[KittyTacky]

I can maybe see Math scum but I don't want to risk it when we have a scummy VT claim.

[KittyTacky]

I don't know what to do.

I think the safest choice is Herta. Math and Fire both have valid points and I don't know who to believe. I'm parked on Herta.

[KittyTacky]

Sorry for not posting much I am just a little demoralized and confused.

[KittyTacky]

It was important for us to know 0 that there were ninjas. Otherwise the game is unbalanced??? Or is the ninja thing a red herring? It doesn't feel like it is. I mean what is it distracting us from?

I would be an actual incestigative role if mafia were not ninjas. This way I am only good for confirming PRs.

[KittyTacky]

INVESTIGATIVE

[KittyTacky]

Anyways, Val town imho.

[KittyTacky]

Or less likely scum than Herta and Freedom anyways.

[KittyTacky]

@KT Tell me more on why Val is town?

Being solvy and specifically the behavior around Gera smells more like an uninformed townie reaction to someone acting scummy instead of just scum opportunism. idk how to explain it. I am in the same boat, I didn't really expect Gera to throw that way.

[KittyTacky]

And I'm town so I see why town would act that way.

[KittyTacky]

idk the associative stuff doesn’t compel me that much wrt herta and his vibes are like. fine whenever hes around he doesn’t seem bothered by anything

idk I just don't feel Freedom.

This game is a little crungled.

[KittyTacky]

I don’t like the Herta wagon. I think mathematically (will verify later as rush job) a scum has to be on it somewhere. I also don’t like how a majority of the game isn’t working with a Toto + IV or hell if super paranoid Toto town block.

It feels wrong.

Toto has bad reads since scum left him alive for 4 whopping days. I'm not following Toto.

[KittyTacky]

Maybe Flashwagon Val89?

Val is the least likely scum of the VTs. Herta > Freedom > Val.

[KittyTacky]

I don't want to lim Ydra because I feel we need to resolve the VTs first.

[KittyTacky]

Maybe Flashwagon Val89?

Val is the least likely scum of the VTs. Herta > Freedom > Val.

Flip it and reverse it imho

Maybe I am just shitty at this game but I really don't get what's scummy about Val. He's at least trying.

[KittyTacky]

Fuck, I'm fine with Freedom too if Herta isn't going anywhere.

VOTE: Freedom

[KittyTacky]

If I hammer 2 scum this game it'll be funny. (Pooky self-hammered once I put him at E-1 so that counts.)

[KittyTacky]

Yeah not saying. This wine will be in front of them.

[KittyTacky]

Them being other PRs.

[KittyTacky]

Actually nvm I forgot how I am meant to play this role.

Fire, who will you visit? I'll watch them. If you don't respond in time I will watch Val.

[KittyTacky]

...well I'll probably draw the NK this way but oh well I am a crappy PR anyways, I believe in you guys.

[KittyTacky]

...well I'll probably draw the NK this way but oh well I am a crappy PR anyways, I believe in you guys.

[KittyTacky]

im not visiting anyone.
i want to see a night kill

That's why you visit the person I told you, so scum kills someone else. You will see a night kill AND be confirmed.

If I don't see you visiting Val, I will vote you tomorrow. Don't try to weasel out of this, ima test you.

[KittyTacky]

Math, go on me so maf doesn't NK me. If they kill fire then the slot is resolved anyways.

[KittyTacky]

I'm not actually ascetic, that was a gambit I tried when I was genuinely TRing fire.

[KittyTacky]

Because I thought he would be a more important role than me but now I want to test that.

[KittyTacky]

You couldn't be a scum PR as all mafias are ninjas.

[KittyTacky]

You will be CLEARED. And as suspicion is circling you it's the best play. Worth one shot of your ability.

[KittyTacky]

The point isn't to clear Val, it's to clear you. And if you refuse I will park my vote on you because you don't want to get checked. It's like someone in Among Us saying they have a scan task but then refusing to do it when watched.

[KittyTacky]

Honestly this dodging is scummy, if I die tonight for some reason, get Fire tomorrow.

[KittyTacky]

You couldn't be a scum PR as all mafias are ninjas.

If I don't see then you are an unclaimed ninja and thus scum (or didn't visit and thus scum).

[KittyTacky]

Nobody visited Val. Get Fire, I have an indirect guilty.

VOTE: Firebringer

[KittyTacky]

I explained to you why it would clear you. You refused regardless.

[KittyTacky]

If that's true, and kitty was gambiting their asceticness, does that not mean we are now in a follow-the-cop situation, and could have been from N2?

I don't think MB can be legit (or else KT, but then why ninjas at all?)

Ima come clean about this, I gambited that I gambited. I really am ascetic. I just wanted mafia to not kill me so I could test Fire.

[KittyTacky]

I don't see why town wouldn't want to get literally cleared.

[KittyTacky]

Why would scum me kill Toto over mathblade.
I want mathblade dead the most

WIFOM? You're mechanically scum.

[KittyTacky]

Or just the second town jester this game...

[KittyTacky]

*third

[KittyTacky]

Nobody visited Val. Get Fire, I have an indirect guilty.

VOTE: Firebringer

Can you explain this please?

Fire said he’d visit no one. I don’t get how this is an indirect guilty. Explain it like I am 5 please.

I told him to visit Val yesterday so I could clear him.

Watchers here can only see town roles because mafias are ninjas so he would be conf town and free of suspicion. I explained this plan to him after his attempted rebuttal and he didn't respond so I assumed that was tacit agreement. I think him saying he won't visit is mafia attempting to weasel out of this.

And why would you check Val and not Toto?

Toto is macho so I don't think JK would actually visit (or would it? In any case it wouldn't have made a difference) and I didn't want you to get roleblocked.

[KittyTacky]

Think about it, does it seem like town would do... this? Especially when they're being sussed?

[KittyTacky]

I don't see why town wouldn't want to get literally cleared.

first off, I don't want to be mechanically cleared.
That is boring as hell.

Why would scum me kill Toto over mathblade.
I want mathblade dead the most

WIFOM? You're mechanically scum.

Second off, I am not "mechanically scum" because i didn't agree to ur stupid plan, in which i told u i wouldn't follow. You have to be stupid to think i would just go with ur plan when my last post before night fall was literally telling you "I am not doing your plan" and then be either surprised or think me not following it means anything other than i told you im not doing it.

Or just the second town jester this game...

Third my friend,
Ur the town jester.

U don't even know that i could literally be a ninja roleblocker or ninja jailkeeper. So ur last post arguing about how I couldn't be the role i claimed or that i couldn't be scum if i was jailkeeper is moronic and coming from ignorance of how roles work.

I told you and will repeat this: Me being jailkeeper and you knowing I visit val98 literally means NOTHING.
All it does is confirm i have the ability to visit.

Here are the facts:
>I am not a ninja. So you would see me visit val98.
>We do not know for a matter of fact that all scum are ninja in this game. That is a theory we are sharing right now but I could still be just a scum roleblocker or scum jailkeeper
> You wanted to waste one of my limited shots on something that doesn't even confirm anything other than my role claim. Which is fucking pointless

Please go rethink how stupid you have been.

1. So you're throwing?
2. I told you why it would literally clear you. I rebutted your point bout it not working. If you're town that's on you for being stubborn.
3. ">We do not know for a matter of fact that all scum are ninja in this game." THE FUCKING IC WAS INFORMED OF THIS! It can't be a lie as this is a normal game. We do know it for certain so your argument is invalid.

[KittyTacky]

If you were a town ninja JK you should have CLAIMED THAT. And why did you bring it up now?

[KittyTacky]

I still think you're scum but OK.

[KittyTacky]

Who did you JK with your previous shots?

[KittyTacky]

Sorry missed it as I immediately quoted your post. I see.

[KittyTacky]

I just don't feel like there would be 2 TPs this game. I know outguessing the mod is frowned upon but this just doesn't feel right to me.

[KittyTacky]

And I don't think it's Math.

[KittyTacky]

U said KT is scummy by PLAY.
When we say play we mean what he has done and or said during the day, you referred to the night actions.
So I go immediately 'how and what about his claimed actions does this equal scummy' are u saying he tried to move u onto himself to waste ur action? Like is that the scummy part to u? What is it?

Faking a guilty is scummy play.

Trying to figure out what I am doing at night is day play.

Like I don’t get your point or question here.

It wasn't faking a guilty, I thought Fire hadn't run out of shots yet. But then again that could well be a lie.

I'm voting between FB and Herta today.

[KittyTacky]

Kinda having a hard time seeing why scum-her decides to lolfake that result on me

Pedit indeed

I don’t get why town her fakes a guilty.

And she did whether she says that’s what it is or not.

How the fuck is that faking a guilty? I did not make up any results, I said it was a

soft

guilty not a hard one, i.e it's not 100% incriminating but still sus. Also I am not a "she".

[KittyTacky]

Be very sad and rethink my entire existance, but i don't think we live in that universe

I don't know who the third is rn
But i think it's in {fire math ydra}

I'm not following the point abt town her faking a guilty ?

Kitty faked a guilty on fire. I don’t see why town kitty does that.

First of all Kitty is He

Second I was talking about Ydra which is why I was confused by that

I was talking Kitty saying Fire was a guilty.

Yes I didn't consider the fact that he could have run out of shots so I thought it was a guilty. Even then I think it's weird that he only brought that up now like it's some kind of dodge.

[KittyTacky]

I mean you can convince yourself of anything but I did not fake anything except my asceticism.

[KittyTacky]

Or rather lack of it.

[KittyTacky]

prodding KittyTacky.

is prodded

I just don't have much to say. I will hammer Herta if they get run up to E-1 but I'm fine with Fire?

[KittyTacky]

I'm not voting Ydra, there are 2 people I think are scummy on that wagon.

[KittyTacky]

So it's probably town imo. Someone vote Facebook.

[KittyTacky]

I just really don't know what else to do. I said everything I wanted to say for today.

[KittyTacky]

GGWP all!

Gera nearly threw this. Sorry FB.

[KittyTacky]

sorry for day 1.


i knew being VT that i was a half decent elimination for town, and in a game billed as complex where i expected there to be multiple good roles for town i was happy to accept taking a dive. seeing who i pegged as 99% town go down day 2 was disappointing though.
i was claiming VT though when i said "I have also said repeatedly that I am not going to claim a roll", i just left it for the rest of you to either pick up on that or choose not to.

idk about the others but I'd have retracted my ultimatum if you just claimed VT.

The guy we pushed next was also town but he had more than scum equity. Ugh. Whatever. We win anyways and I kinda understand the reasoning behind your play but it was objectively bad and wasted a day.

[KittyTacky]

Gg all

I really think scum needed a big brother or something to make that level of power work.

Then they can submit kills after.

Nice game all.

What's a Big Brother? Doesn't seem to be a normal role. From the reference I can guess that it's a role that sees every action in the game?