Mini Normal 2289 - Postgame

[Dionysus]

There is a professional liar among us!

VOTE: MalcolmTucker

[Dionysus]

Also, my first time in New York!

(not really, but it is my first time in *this* new york)

[Dionysus]

Feel free to get in here and defend your first 2 posts whenever, Brickwall, I'm listening. I'm not reaction testing, I legit want to flip you now because I think your first 2 posts are scummy. I want you to post a full reads list by page 4.

Won’t be happening. I play the game my way, not your way.

Is RVS done now?

Indignation is easy to fake and asking for a full reads list by page 4 is hardly asking you to abandon your playstyle lol. It's better to cooperate with me even though I'm abrasive, my requests are fair.

@Dionysus

There is a professional liar among us!

VOTE: MalcolmTucker

Also, my first time in New York!

(not really, but it is my first time in *this* new york)

I've put some thought into it and I've decided I'd like you to post a full reads list by page 4 as well. I can elaborate later on why.

lolz and who are you to make demands of me

[Dionysus]

VOTE: MalcolmTucker

I'm sheeping Dionysus in this game with flavor Mini Normal 2289. Thank you and goodbye.

UNVOTE: malcolm tucker
VOTE: Eiralox

Sus

[Dionysus]

Dionysus, I'm not the Mayor, and I have already made a pun in this game

Cool story

[Dionysus]

Ok so this game has barely moved since I last checked in despite the several new pages. Some high-level thoughts on the main wagons atm:

STD - I didn't like #15, its troll nature felt kind of insincere, but it was page 1 so whatever. But since he has sort of floated and not said anything useful which is +scum. I don't wanna join this wagon though as I want something more damning than a page 1 post lol.
Furtive - I don't understand these votes someone enlighten me please
Eiralox - honoured that half of their posts are about me? The obsession. The focus on my vote and why it is there is kinda weird ngl and maybe +scum. Although I literally just as I am typing this checked the vote count again and saw that the other vote is a self-vote so that explains it, they are just sensitive. Anyway I assume the obsession is to find out why my vote is on them. Well I thought it was obvious at the time but I didn't like how they sheeped my MT vote
T3 - Why do you think this post is scummy #45

VOTE: T3

Eiralox you can relax now

[Dionysus]

Ok so this game has barely moved since I last checked in despite the several new pages. Some high-level thoughts on the main wagons atm:

STD - I didn't like #15, its troll nature felt kind of insincere, but it was page 1 so whatever. But since he has sort of floated and not said anything useful which is +scum. I don't wanna join this wagon though as I want something more damning than a page 1 post lol.
Furtive - I don't understand these votes someone enlighten me please
Eiralox - honoured that half of their posts are about me? The obsession. The focus on my vote and why it is there is kinda weird ngl and maybe +scum. Although I literally just as I am typing this checked the vote count again and saw that the other vote is a self-vote so that explains it, they are just sensitive. Anyway I assume the obsession is to find out why my vote is on them. Well I thought it was obvious at the time but I didn't like how they sheeped my MT vote
T3 - Why do you think this post is scummy #45

VOTE: T3

Eiralox you can relax now

This post is pinging me a bit

Lots of people explained their votes on furtive already, not realizing T3 already answered his question, the blurb about Eiralox is just weird

Lycan's furtive vote was placed with the explanation that he was present but not hunting scum after he'd made about 5 posts. From what I can see the rest of them seem to have sheeped this, which is flimsy. I don't understand why there's a wagon on him. If there is a better, more up to date reason than his page one content, enlighten me! It is possible I have just missed it as I came back to 7 pages of mostly shitposting.

What is weird about the Eiralox blurb tho? Half of their posts are about me, and not even because they're chasing me for info lol.

[Dionysus]

Dionysus, is there more to why you voted T3 besides asking him about 45?

He seemed a bit tense after there were 2 votes on him so I wanted to press him a bit more to see if I've imagined it or if he's feeling the pressure already. He still seems tense to me.

[Dionysus]

What's your read on furtive?

I slightly townread him at this point. I don't aggressively townread, I just thought there were better wagons than him.

[Dionysus]

Eiralox - honoured that half of their posts are about me? The obsession. The focus on my vote and why it is there is kinda weird ngl and maybe +scum. Although I literally just as I am typing this checked the vote count again and

saw that the other vote is a self-vote so that explains it, they are just sensitive. Anyway I assume the obsession is to find out why my vote is on them.

Well I thought it was obvious at the time but I didn't like how they sheeped my MT vote

What is weird about the Eiralox blurb tho? Half of their posts are about me, and not even because they're chasing me for info lol.

You spend a lot of time confused about what Eiralox is doing when Eira very clearly said they wanted to sheep your vote... They self voted because you voted them, not because they are sensitive.

Your analysis was just weird because I don't get how you reached any of those conclusions by reading the thread. Did you read the thread chronologically?

I think Eira's sheeping of me all game to the point of self voting is weird. Are you 1) seriously saying that this isn't weird 2) telling me that it is sus/weird of *me* for finding it so?

And just to clarify when I say half of their posts are about me I don't mean just the ones sheeping me. Literally half (maybe more) of their posts mention me lol.

[Dionysus]

*why do you slightly townread furtive

I agree a lot with his analysis so far.

[Dionysus]

I think Eira's sheeping of me all game to the point of self voting is weird. Are you 1) seriously saying that this isn't weird 2) telling me that it is sus/weird of *me* for finding it so?

no, I think it's weird too. Did you realize that 32 was a self vote because he was just following your vote?

At the time it happened? Duh it was obvious. I had just forgotten about the self-vote when I came back to catch up but again it was obvious once I saw what it was.

[Dionysus]

VOTE: Dionysus

Why have you put your vote on me and not alchemist?

[Dionysus]

Way to walk into a beetlejuice at the exact moment I was becoming paranoid about you, Dionysus.

If you were suddenly put into a Final 3 between alchemist and NM, who would you hammer and why, Dionysus?

It's not a trick question, I am actually comparing between those two right now.

This is addressed to you, Dionysus.

why these two

[Dionysus]

Way to walk into a beetlejuice at the exact moment I was becoming paranoid about you, Dionysus.

If you were suddenly put into a Final 3 between alchemist and NM, who would you hammer and why, Dionysus?

It's not a trick question, I am actually comparing between those two right now.

This is addressed to you, Dionysus.

why these two

Process of elimination! I'm wrapping up my team solve for tomorrow morning.

Nothing particularly pings me from alchemist apart from him saying fewer posts = better for him. Because it is true that more posts = more hunting. But I can also relate to this because coming back to 7 pages of shitposting made catching up a chore. But it's not optimal for town to have fewer posts, so I don't agree with him posting it and it is +scum. Hardly a smoking gun though.

NM has 3 posts or so and they're all spam. So I can't make a judgement call on them. On the basis of what I can see between them I would hammer alchemist but I think it would be 50/50 a mislim due to lack of content from NM.

[Dionysus]

You didn't agree with my metaread?

Has your metaread changed?

[Dionysus]

You didn't agree with my metaread?

AFAIK we aren't allowed to discuss Dionysus' meta outside of what they share in-thread because their other game is still ongoing.

Newbie 2109 is concluded viewtopic.php?t=90297

[Dionysus]

@

Dionysus

Subject: Newbie 2109: Taco Hemingway | Game Over

Dionysus played the game as a casual commenter up until others (such as Not Known) began making larger and more in-depth posts, in which case he began also making comprehensive posts, but mostly about game mechanics. Posts such as 102 and 113 are both good mechanic posts (going the full way through the scenario Campbell's logic causes and discussing the reasoning for their hesitation on giving scum an easier time hammering), but they're then forced to carry the weight of actual reads that Dion seems not confident enough in to let them sit in their own post (claiming Campbell's is just pretending to have such logic as a cover and stating that there is a "consensus" on them flailing, respectively).

Welcome to the game

I want to just dispute your final point about me not being confident in my reads to let them sit in their own post. [post=#p13610841]#78[/post] is where I point the finger at Campbell I think quite confidently, I followed this up in other posts you have referenced. You may disagree with me, but it is there. The more Campbell posts, the more sure I am that he is scum (his latest post making another u-turn for example, he's all over the place). I think it seems you disagree with me on consensus forming around him being flailing scum simply because you read him as town yourself.

I'm guessing that

#1 your read on Frederick Campbell was wrong here, Dionysus?
#2 you were Town in this 2019 game, as you are here?

Yes to both.

[Dionysus]

I'm still confused

I can think of a million reasons why someone would say "long time no see" and then replace out

I think the replace out is not really important to his argument but if I've understood correctly it's that lycan said he hadn't seen me around for a while when he had only just started posting, meaning he was lurking around the time I was posting earlier in the thread and didn't start posting himself until after I had disappeared. It was definitely a lurkslip if not a scumslip but lurking and not posting is +scum so I tend to agree that the slot is not town.

Nice catch.

[Dionysus]

Not Dionysus tho they're golden.

Lu bb <3

[Dionysus]

Lots of people explained their votes on furtive already, not realizing T3 already answered his question, the blurb about Eiralox is just weird
Bleh, much of a muchness. I could have put my vote on Alchemist after that post but didn't see the benefit of my vote being there in that moment. I think my vote has more value on you and you have certainly been more vocal since that vote. The fact you have been more vocal since being voted on makes me suspect you more to be honest.

it's cute that you think my increased activity today is because of your vote and not CSF push or any good game content that has happened since. But it didn't really register with me and I only bothered to acknowledge it because you voted for me in the middle of screeds against alchemist. I thought it was weird and not much of a muchness.

[Dionysus]

Lots of people explained their votes on furtive already, not realizing T3 already answered his question, the blurb about Eiralox is just weird
Bleh, much of a muchness. I could have put my vote on Alchemist after that post but didn't see the benefit of my vote being there in that moment. I think my vote has more value on you and you have certainly been more vocal since that vote. The fact you have been more vocal since being voted on makes me suspect you more to be honest.

it's cute that you think my increased activity today is because of your vote and not CSF push or any good game content that has happened since. But it didn't really register with me and I only bothered to acknowledge it because you voted for me in the middle of screeds against alchemist. I thought it was weird and not much of a muchness.

I voted for you and then got asked about Alchemist. Very different to voting for you “in the middle of screeds against alchemist”. A clear manipulation of facts to put me in a bad light whilst being dismissive in totality towards my accusation without actually answering them.

I’m not on a vanity trip about who caught you as scum, if you want to credit CSF then be my guest. The point is you have acted differently since pressure being applied and you still haven’t really answered for much of what I said in 258

Sorry, I was looking at your ISO and missed the @Frog at the start of your post so didn't realise you had been asked about them. Wasn't trying to rewrite what had happened, I just thought the vote on me followed immediately by a big(ish) post against alchemist was a bit weird.

[Dionysus]

Also nothing in that post you linked is directed at me.

[Dionysus]

Dionysus: haven't seen you around lately bud what timezone are you in?

I've been thinking about this. Dionysus, why didn't you react to this post?

I started to write a response but I got distracted by other things and didn't finish. Why is that interesting?

[Dionysus]

how long does it take to write a response to that question?

Not long, but I was trying to make it funny.

But how is "where are you from" a reaction test

[Dionysus]

The familiarity

Where are you from

[Dionysus]

That's not the familiar part :p

but Seattle

I genuinely don't get it

I'm from London.

But if you want to know more on why I got distracted it's because I wanted to answer "the correct timezone" and couldn't make it land.

[Dionysus]

What do you think of Ceph? He's a bit of a hot topic rn

Trying very hard to claw back the scumread people have. They get +town cred for their enchant analysis which I think is a good catch (I've never played with enchant so idk their meta) and I am kind of surprised no one has pushed it more.

[Dionysus]

Godwin's law in day 1, nice. Is that a record?

[Dionysus]

So you're claiming Vanilla Town, then?

I don't like this post (sry bb)

[Dionysus]

So my main take away from the last few pages is:

1) frogster vs Cephrir is really fucking funny. Thank you so much for replacing in as it has made this day very entertaining
2) frogster is going to extreme lengths to dig up dirt on Cephrir which I think is very +++town. It means he legit believes in his read because if Cephrir flips town then this would look so bad.
3) I townread alchemist already but I definitely feel sure he is Town now. He has been engaged and scum hunting and I have liked his analysis. So not that the question is relevant anymore if I had to hammer either him or NM I'd go NM.
4) I still think Cephrir is scum
5) although I think Cephrir's enchant analysis is interesting
6) this could be svs but it was largely ignored or disagreed with so maybe they are wrong

[Dionysus]

Godwin's law in day 1, nice. Is that a record?

this is a wolfy popin

Rude

[Dionysus]

alchemist: town for being engaged and scumhunting
cephrir: scum for no explained reason despite being more engaged and scumhunting his cute little ass off and having good analysis as stated in this very post

ok

You missed the important part where I said I liked his analysis

Infer what you will from that

[Dionysus]

So my main take away from the last few pages is:

1) frogster vs Cephrir is really fucking funny. Thank you so much for replacing in as it has made this day very entertaining
2) frogster is going to extreme lengths to dig up dirt on Cephrir which I think is very +++town. It means he legit believes in his read because if Cephrir flips town then this would look so bad.
3) I townread alchemist already but I definitely feel sure he is Town now. He has been engaged and scum hunting and I have liked his analysis. So not that the question is relevant anymore if I had to hammer either him or NM I'd go NM.
4) I still think Cephrir is scum
5) although I think Cephrir's enchant analysis is interesting
6) this could be svs but it was largely ignored or disagreed with so maybe they are wrong

Which interaction are you saying could be scum v scum?

Also for (1), it’s funny until it’s not. Last night was actually really uncomfortable and I think the personal beef between them is making things worse.

Nothing huge but Cephrir scumreading enchant because of meta and complaining about it being ignored and then enchant trolling with this post but I want to stress that this is a maaaaaaaybe that is probably wrong.

And fair enough. I wasn't around when this was happening, if they are always like this together it would indeed be annoying.

[Dionysus]

i recommend protecting csf she's the only one capable of leading this town out of whatever drug induced haze they're currently operating under

No because I am at the top of csf's scumlist

[Dionysus]

whoops you already answered that sorry

Is it time for our routine interrogation again

[Dionysus]

I am taking your perspective on Cephir seriously. For example I don't get the sense reading his ISO that he knew your alignment at all. I think it may have been genuine. Do you feel like he would have burned out sooner as scum?

i think he would have. some back story is that he's been really good at getting red PMs as of late. Like ridiculously so. So i think he's just exhausted from being scum. As he starts getting green PMs again he'll start to get more comfortable so this tell will fade in time but i think he's just pissed off at only getting to play scum recently and i think it would have shown more. i think he's attempting to play here which is not what i would expect from scum!ceph.

that is not to say he can't be scum, i'm still hesitant to lock him as town because maybe he is already over getting all those red roles. like i think after temple game, scum!ceph would make sure to be suspicious of me but then arrive at a tr of me (i don't know if he did that later part yet) but that's what i would expect to make it look like he was sorting me.

I have never played with ceph, so I have no idea what his meta is like, but this post feels a bit over-engineered and self-aware to me. Anyone agree?

[Dionysus]

std knows ceph...pretty well...if that what you're getting at

are they together or smth

[Dionysus]

yes^

Lmao for real?

[Dionysus]

VOTE: PenguinPower

Dionysus love I'll sheep you when I sheep you ; )

</3

But what about T3's response made you want to vote penguin?

[Dionysus]

This push on Enchant seems like Alchemist is caught scum trying to divert attention away by starting a 1v1? Maybe?

Was this post an actual scumread? Because if it is then this:

VOTE: Eiralox
I think I'm gonna put my vote here for now.

is weird.

~~~~~

I've read through alchemist ISO and it isn't as townie as I remembered. The humblebrag on the scummie nomination in #222 is something I've got in the back of my mind. I think there is a decent chance they're partners. T3's reads have been a bit all over the place. I get it, day 1 is hard, but he's not a noob. His progression on alchemist for example just doesn't make sense only for him to not vote him, unless they're scum together and T3 doesn't want to vote his partner. Alchemist also replied to eiralox's post of T3's messy reads and didn't actually acknowledge this inconsistency.

[Dionysus]

VOTE: Eiralox
I think I'm gonna put my vote here for now.

Ok I'll take the bait... Why

I think it would be best if votes are applied there.

VOTE: Enchant

...

[Dionysus]

Has Brickwalll been prodded?

[Dionysus]

VOTE: T3

[Dionysus]

VOTE: Dionysus

A dagger to my heart </3

But I get it. I've been kind of mia so far today. Truth be told I've been struggling to follow this game because it is pretty much almost entirely vibes and I'm better at hunting scum with logical deductions.

Having said that, I still think T3 is scum. Their contributions may be better than mine in terms of volume, but not in terms of content. Reads changing from one post to the next is fine, but there should be a consistent thread that you can follow to make sense of the person's thought process. T3's reads have been... well not that.

[Dionysus]

234 is still a scummy post, I'm not going to rehash that >_>

So my main take away from the last few pages is:

1) frogster vs Cephrir is really fucking funny. Thank you so much for replacing in as it has made this day very entertaining
2) frogster is going to extreme lengths to dig up dirt on Cephrir which I think is very +++town. It means he legit believes in his read because if Cephrir flips town then this would look so bad.
3) I townread alchemist already but I definitely feel sure he is Town now. He has been engaged and scum hunting and I have liked his analysis. So not that the question is relevant anymore if I had to hammer either him or NM I'd go NM.

4) I still think Cephrir is scum
5) although I think Cephrir's enchant analysis is interesting

6) this could be svs but it was largely ignored or disagreed with so maybe they are wrong

Doesn't vote either. Is that an inconsistency?

I didn't vote Ceph here because my vote was already on T3 who I'm quite sure is scum too This is not an inconsistency.

[Dionysus]

Reads changing from one post to the next is fine, but there should be a consistent thread that you can follow to make sense of the person's thought process. T3's reads have been... well not that.

what do you think about my content today?
also, can you point to some specific examples. i know there's the alchemist one but i think i already explained that.

@Dionysus

Sorry not ignoring this - just busy with work today. Will reply properly when I'm finished.

[Dionysus]

Reads changing from one post to the next is fine, but there should be a consistent thread that you can follow to make sense of the person's thought process. T3's reads have been... well not that.

what do you think about my content today?
also, can you point to some specific examples. i know there's the alchemist one but i think i already explained that.

Ok your content today has actually been quite good and reads p town to me. Also your pushback on me in these replies feels legit.

UNVOTE:

@CSF you seem pretty certain that I'm scum but I don't actually know why. You said you have gone over 234 enough and don't want to again, but I would like you to because you said my answers to your questions off the back of that post were quite good (or, to be more accurate: not as bad as you were expecting). So I'm confused by you still citing this post. I'll be honest it feels like you made up your mind from this one post and have been tunnelling me since.

Why is no one pushing NM? Purely meta? (as an aside what I've seen of him this game and read of people's posts, his schtick is purely to show up just to hammer which imo is not playing to his win condition, why is this even a thing)

I think atp scum are either enchant/eiralox or ceph/penguin with maybe brickwall or NM thrown in there.

The metaread on enchant from D1 is not something I can ignore though, so I'm gonna put my vote there.

VOTE: enchant

[Dionysus]

Also.......

Hmmmmm........

Dionysus if time you have can you talk about Brickwall? If you want?


Also furtive..... if you want?

Brickwall is interesting. I liked his pushback on frogster in #19 and I agreed with what he said in #140 about you. I think alchemist is wrong here. But #463 is pretty bad imo. "A clear manipulation of the facts to put me in a bad light" is a stretch off the back of a single post, not even a particularly big one, but it's an even bigger stretch in context of a relatively off-the-cuff remark that was a pretty easy mistake to make when you read the post I was referencing (#258 for context and the mistake I made was missing the @frog at the start so I didn't realise it was a reply to someone asking him about alchemist). This post just feels a bit opportunistic in trying to paint me as scum.

I don't have any oven-ready thoughts on furtive but will read his ISO just now.

[Dionysus]

Also....Dio......


Uh......

Please tell me why you vote with Ceph and Pengu if they possible scum? This means you believe more in "Eira and Enchant" scum?

Enough to vote with Ceph and Pengu?

I'll be really sad if you're scum. I'll wish I found another scum instead of you.

Please please show me you're not?

Well yeah it is either ceph/penguin or you/enchant. I want to explore you and enchant just now. I may change my mind before day's end.

[Dionysus]

Reads changing from one post to the next is fine, but there should be a consistent thread that you can follow to make sense of the person's thought process. T3's reads have been... well not that.

what do you think about my content today?
also, can you point to some specific examples. i know there's the alchemist one but i think i already explained that.

Ok your content today has actually been quite good and reads p town to me. Also your pushback on me in these replies feels legit.

UNVOTE:

@CSF you seem pretty certain that I'm scum but I don't actually know why. You said you have gone over 234 enough and don't want to again, but I would like you to because you said my answers to your questions off the back of that post were quite good (or, to be more accurate: not as bad as you were expecting). So I'm confused by you still citing this post. I'll be honest it feels like you made up your mind from this one post and have been tunnelling me since.

Why is no one pushing NM? Purely meta? (as an aside what I've seen of him this game and read of people's posts, his schtick is purely to show up just to hammer which imo is not playing to his win condition, why is this even a thing)

I think atp scum are either enchant/eiralox or ceph/penguin with maybe brickwall or NM thrown in there.

The metaread on enchant from D1 is not something I can ignore though, so I'm gonna put my vote there.

VOTE: enchant

Why you no answer my question?

Also, this vote switch is suspicious to me. T3 all game (except for the subtle push on Alchemist lining up a hammer which wasn't needed) and then all of a sardine you have some pressure and votes on you and you switch to enchant?

I'm getting to it

[Dionysus]

VOTE: Dionysus

Talk me through your u-turn on Alchemist in D1? Specifically why your u-turn only occurred after he had 4 votes on him. Because on two separate occasions, roughly 500 posts apart, you read alchemist as town.

They then had 4 votes placed on them and then you thought they were T3’s scum partner?

Idk if I would characterise it as a u-turn. I just re-read and didn't think they were as townie as I remembered, and I thought there was a possibility he and T3 were partners. I was clearly wrong there lol. But I thought T3 was scummier than alchemist so I kept my vote on him and didn't join the alchemist wagon, which was, whether T3 is scum or not, the right call at least.

I assume based on #1266 where you discuss how many of the scumteam were on the alchemist wagon that you think I am the one or two who didn't vote for him.

[Dionysus]

VOTE: Dionysus

Talk me through your u-turn on Alchemist in D1? Specifically why your u-turn only occurred after he had 4 votes on him. Because on two separate occasions, roughly 500 posts apart, you read alchemist as town.

They then had 4 votes placed on them and then you thought they were T3’s scum partner?

Idk if I would characterise it as a u-turn. I just re-read and didn't think they were as townie as I remembered, and I thought there was a possibility he and T3 were partners. I was clearly wrong there lol. But I thought T3 was scummier than alchemist so I kept my vote on him and didn't join the alchemist wagon, which was, whether T3 is scum or not, the right call at least.

I assume based on #1266 where you discuss how many of the scumteam were on the alchemist wagon that you think I am the one or two who didn't vote for him.

Yes, potentially one of the scum not on the wagon to answer your question.

But around the 300 post mark you said they were town leaning. Again at the 800 post mark you confirmed they were town leaning. Did you not re-read here to confirm this read? Surely if by the 1200 post mark you are now seeing them as scum, you certainly would have started picking up these subtle scummy nuances between post 300 and 800, but you didn't - you just confirmed them as town?

idk man am i not allowed to just change my mind

[Dionysus]

Ok i'm tapping out. These are the only questions I wan't to leave in this thready-poo:

@Brickwall: Why were you on Enchant?

@Dionysus: When you have time I'd love to hear all about furtiveglance ; )

Sure, I'm at work but I have nothing to do today so will post some furtive thoughts after lunch.

[Dionysus]

@CSF you seem pretty certain that I'm scum but I don't actually know why. You said you have gone over 234 enough and don't want to again, but I would like you to because you said my answers to your questions off the back of that post were quite good (or, to be more accurate: not as bad as you were expecting). So I'm confused by you still citing this post. I'll be honest it feels like you made up your mind from this one post and have been tunnelling me since.

See 1445 and 1449

You didn't answer me about 234!

Your suggestion that I am not trying to understand T3's mindset can be put back to you about me: I have clearly struggled at points to remain fully engaged with this game for reasons I've stated already and don't want to get bogged down with. Consider the plausibility that what I've said is true when you next try to work out my alignment because it might help shed a different light on what I've said.

[Dionysus]

Laughing so hard at that failed NM hammer

Some thoughts on furtive:

- #537 - this is his first explicit scumread and it took 40 posts to get there. His contributions up until this point were also mostly kind of nothing-y. A few votes here and there with light commentary, but no serious pushes on anyone.
- #544 - more meat on the bones developing from this point.
- He later agrees with frogster's top 3 townreads and his scumread on ceph in #695, although he doesn't think enchant is scum based on how they normally play, which contradicts ceph analysis.
- #1018 - a full readlist with enchant in urine colour and ceph as his highest scumread.

From here he has been pushing ceph, T3 and NM. There are two interesting things from the furtive ISO - the first thing is that it took a while for him to really get going and there was a lot of posts that didn't move the game on any. I know I have been guilty of this myself, but I am pretty inexperienced in this queue unlike him. But the most interesting thing for me in the furtive ISO is the disagreement on the enchant meta. I've never played with enchant (and sorry but I am not reading any old games lol, not got time for that) so I don't have an opinion on this myself, but this + the nullread on enchant from furtive positions him nicely as a potential scumpartner to enchant if they flip red. So ceph/penguin vs enchant/furtive + someone else. If this scumpair is legit then NM moves down my list slightly, as I don't think a hammer on your partner would have made any sense for him as a scum player at this stage, with the contributions he had made. He could have just coasted by. But doesn't rule him out with ceph/penguin if furtive turns out to be town.

[Dionysus]

Jesus brickwall way to overreact. Eira saying T3 is giving less than us is not the same as saying we aren't giving anything useful.