Mini Normal 2288: Reposting Same Picture As Flavor Are Lame

[Kowahbunga]

VOTE: andante

hi everyone

[Kowahbunga]

VOTE: andante

hi everyone

Yeah, actually, what specifically makes you park your rvs vote on me... could pick gamer, haschel, gamma, or penguin
yet you opted to join the vote on me. Please share why

I decided pre-game I would vote the first person voted, I'm not sorry it was you.

[Kowahbunga]

VOTE: Kowahbunga

Let's kill scum on Page 3

You spelled "Andante" wrong.

[Kowahbunga]

VOTE: Kowahbunga

Let's kill scum on Page 3

You spelled "Andante" wrong.

Do you scum read andante?

You know what? The vote originally was just a thought I had to do. I figured "hey, let's put a second vote on someone when i get to the game thread, see if that kills rvs dead or not" and I feel strongly, the game is going on now and RVS is way over. I don't know if it's entirely because of me, but I'll accept partial credit.

Now after reading all of Andante's response's to my, at the time, nothing vote. I can't see how any of their posts come from a town POV. And I am indeed currently scum reading them for this.

At first, I thought maybe it was just a simple OMGUS vote back at me, but then I look at the original vote by Herta on Adante, which is still there, and wonder why Adante only has an issue with my vote. Herta did the same as me, placed an RVS vote and hasn't posted since. I placed my RVS vote, and was attacked by Adante for disappearing. In fact, Adante used that as part of their reason for scum reading me.

So it was okay for Herta to do it, and remain parked there, but not okay for me just because it created the first wagon? I don't think I'd even notice if someone put me at L-5. To me, it feels like scum reaching for something to look active and busy with. I all around, don't like the way they reacted towards the vote and how personal they seem to have taken it.

[Kowahbunga]

i don't really get the focus on kow's vote tbh...

also don't think andante's response to it was scum indicative rather than just andante indicative though

I don't know Andante to know how they would respond to it. So I'm willing to rethink my stance on how I didn't like their response if this is just how they're going to respond to things.

[Kowahbunga]

i don't really get the focus on kow's vote tbh...

also don't think andante's response to it was scum indicative rather than just andante indicative though

Regarding Kow, my thoughts...

1. Why does town need to plan what they are going to do for RVS in the pregame?

2.

That’s entirely fair
I just had the idea in pregame so I figured I’d vocalize it immediately.

VOTE: andante

hi everyone

Yeah, actually, what specifically makes you park your rvs vote on me... could pick gamer, haschel, gamma, or penguin
yet you opted to join the vote on me. Please share why

I decided pre-game I would vote the first person voted, I'm not sorry it was you.

I think the justification of his RVS vote being "i decided pre-game" could have easily just been stolen from Gamma saying that she decided pregame to ask everyone to post a reads list. sort of "i'm getting pushed on my RVS vote, how do I explain it, i'll just say what Gamma said..."This is a bit of a reach but it did seem weird to me and worth pointing out.

Does this mean you also scum read Gamma for planning pregame or just me for doing it?

[Kowahbunga]

You know what? The vote originally was just a thought I had to do. I figured "hey, let's put a second vote on someone when i get to the game thread, see if that kills rvs dead or not" and I feel strongly, the game is going on now and RVS is way over. I don't know if it's entirely because of me, but I'll accept partial credit.

Now after reading all of Andante's response's to my, at the time, nothing vote. I can't see how any of their posts come from a town POV. And I am indeed currently scum reading them for this.

This doesn't read like how town structures their thoughts
This reads like Kowah decided it looked best to progress to a scumread on Andante and added the depth and oomph afterwards

The following post is what set me to scum on Andante. The initial votes intentions were to end RVS. I got what I wanted from that. The part I don't like though:

VOTE: andante

hi everyone

like, yall... anyone want to tell me this is town? Kow votes ME.. and dissapears, there were lots of others being voted! In my opinion, the Penguin wagon could've been more fun to join!! Who doesn't want to vote penguin? but the vote on me... idk who Kow is, but yall I'm so deadset on this being scum, you have no idea...

I literally asked Kow something too, I think Kow is avoiding us... you don't vote, say "hi everyone" then dissapear?? feels like scum forcing an opening post, hoping to fly under the radar

Is forcing out this read on me like what I did is scum motivated. How is it scum motivated to bring attention to yourself? Also the fact that they even say that joining another wagon would have been okay, just not them. I don't like any of it. And how would that post put me under the radar? Just such a wild case made from literally a vote and two other words.

The response from Andante was more what I expect from someone being put to L1. This is way too much from way too little.

[Kowahbunga]

Another thing I didn't like was being accused of "disappearing" - which maybe would have made sense if I didn't post for a few days, but this claim was made 3 hours after my vote. Which, unless my math is wrong, me "disappearing" for 1% of D1. My scum read on Andante just comes from the MASSIVE reaching they're doing to convince themselves and others that I'm scum.

[Kowahbunga]

How is it scum motivated to bring attention to yourself?

Have you considered how this reasoning applies in relation to your Andante scumread?
Andante has been bringing a lot of attention to himself
Do you feel like that's scum motivated?

Wouldn't you agree though, that my vote is more out of place in a game of mafia than someone bringing attention to themselves because they believe they found scum? I don't think you can compare the two types of sore thumbs.

I expect to see nearly everyone at one point or another acting like Andante. But I don't expect them to make such an elaborate case against someone from at most a 4-word post.

Most expect a single random vote in RVS. I'd wager not as many expect an RVS vote on someone who already has one.

My vote was intended to create a conversation, and inadvertently made me scum read someone because of their response to it.

[Kowahbunga]

Kow has too many votes for this early. Got my eye on Penguin,red, Klick, and andante. Likely at least one scum on there.

I'm at work, so this is all I'll be able to say for the next fivish hours.

wait...why not brickwall?

What about them?

So you managed to see post 100 but not 102?

[Kowahbunga]

Oh, and just to be smug, if y'all kill me this early and see I'm town, all you're doing is proving my point about stupidly rushing into things.

Y'all seem to like rushing things. I prefer a methodical approach. Every time I rush into things it ends in disaster. This is no different.

See, I'm not a fan of just rushing lims, I'm a fan of rushing more of the "playing the game" instead of people showing up every 48 hours to say a few lines, it's like, come on, talk!
If you are town, please.. just step back, it'll be ok. We're not voting out no one, we're not rushing a lim.

Like, for me at least, yeh I'm tunneled on Kow scum, I'm well aware of it, but hey, if Kow started doing something other than yelling "Andante's personality makes her scum!!!" I'd unvote lol

I'm just unsure of these past 2 "wild side, I don't care" type posts from you, like, they're not exactly helping, I don't SR you right now, but if you want a SR, keep these up, when I have the time, I can really sit down and think about where I stand with you, but hey, I don't, but please, just calm down, we got this, but "just to be smug" like really? that's not helpful fam, but I'm sure you know that

The "personality" part of your message I'm fine with believing that's who you are according to someone previous I can't remember who. I don't like how you discredited my actual reason for scum reading you again, which is how crazy of a case you made out of literally nothing but me voting you.

Like your actual progression from the moment you responded to my vote was:

19Asking why I voted you instead of others
26scum reading me
30claiming scum intentions and mentioning how i haven't posted since. This post was only 2.5 hours after i made my vote and you're already pushing the agenda that i disappeared...
34voting me
36asking people if they actually town read my RVS vote... claiming i've disappeared again (this time 10 minutes after the last time you did this)... saying you're "deadset" i'm scum... claiming i'm avoiding the thread... again saying i've disappeared... putting it out there that you believe i'm trying to fly under the radar by doing something very noticeably not normal (at least in my opinion, and which was my intention)

ALL before my second post.

INCASE any of you forgot. ALL OF THAT from this:

VOTE: andante

hi everyone

Then to further respond to the original post I quoted in this, you get after me for tunneling you. Like how do you really want me to react?

[Kowahbunga]

Hi taly, how can i jog your memory for that question you wanted to ask me?

[Kowahbunga]

Hi taly, how can i jog your memory for that question you wanted to ask me?

what are your reads or thoughts outside of

Andante

? your ISO is centered around that read so far

I've done myself no favours worrying about it so much but have felt the need to defend myself.

So I don't have any other serious reads. But that's also going to be normal for me because I've never been the type of player that likes to make a list of names and write “scum lean/town lean” or anything similar.

I read each post and examine it in the moment as “would I say that as town?” Or “would I say that as scum?” - and then proceed accordingly from which I think makes the most sense.

I seriously doubt I turn my attention away from Andante today. I'm satisfied with my feelings on them, and will let the rest of the players decide what's best.

[Kowahbunga]

What is a vanity in mafia terms?

[Kowahbunga]

I've been reading everything. Trying to find something to care about, but there's nothing. I don't have it in me to BS a read on someone off of any of what's being said. And that's exactly what any read I give you would be at this point, pure BS. I have no clue who is scum and D1 could last another 6 years and I still wouldn't find any reason to scum read anyone. The only reason I have a scum read on Andante has been mentioned, and it's there and it's what I'm going with until I have information that tells me something else.

There are literally no questions I could ask or answer that are going to make me town lean or scum lean any of you right now. I've played this game enough to know that I don't have this apparent foresight that so many appear to have D1 to know and solve the game. You know how I solve a game? Information. You know what I have absolutely zero of? Information.

So I'm just going to tell you how I wish this game was played and I look forward to seeing all of you tell me it's the wrong way to play.

First off, D1 should be a quick no elimination. A quick no elimination in D1 does so much for town, in my opinion. First it tells scum nothing, they already have more information than us to start, and the only way we win is to pass the amount of information they have. So give them no extra information D1 to focus a kill and make it completely random so they have to get even more lucky than usual to kill someone important. More times than not, because I would imagine there's going to be more not so useful town powers than useful town powers, town will escape N1 without any awful deaths, allowing their powers to get a night of free actions. That means information!

Also, I would wager quite a bit of money that most D1 eliminations hit a town player. And I'd wager a lot of money that most N1s end with a night kill on a town player. Start D2 with 50% less deaths to town. I mean is it even pro-town to lynch on D1? Knowing that it's practically random at that point?

I dunno, I just wish D1 would be spent entirely making it D2 as fast as possible.

Anyways, I look forward to being scum read for my opinions on how the game should be played. Don't feel bad about it, it always happens when I make this post.

I don't have any reads on anyone else. There will never be a list today. It will all be in the moment. I will look at wagons, and I will question weird votes. I will decide if I believe role claims and results when they're presented.

In fact, just consider this intent to hammer the first E1 I see. Even if it's me.

[Kowahbunga]

Kow your opinion here is wrong on NL day 1. They did the math many years ago.

Well, they forgot to carry a one or round the decimal or something. Maybe they forgot to multiply by logic.

[Kowahbunga]

happy to yeet kow now

let's go!

There's nothing I like more than being right, and this would just take us down that path, so let's go indeed.

[Kowahbunga]

Kow your opinion here is wrong on NL day 1. They did the math many years ago.

Well, they forgot to carry a one or round the decimal or something. Maybe they forgot to multiply by logic.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=21947

here is an old thread worth reading on this very subject !

I disagree with all of those points in that thread. I don't think any of that math takes in to account town powers and the odds those hit correctly. It's all looked at a stripped down basic "there are just town and there are just scum and they do nothing but vote" - games are not usually that simple - I also think it's a negative way to look at it and that having more town alive is always better than less town alive. Claiming that less town alive means a greater chance to lynch scum is a defeatist attitude.

Anyways, I don't want to get into it any more as it will take away from this game.

[Kowahbunga]

i've a cop check on andante

she's clear

One other note, if this is a softclaim, which I'm guessing it isn't, feel free to just check me tonight. In fact, if there is a cop/similar role, check me, more than happy to definitively prove my innocence.

gryff gamma is talking about you having modded a game but your join date seem new

are you an alt? if so what's your main account if it's public? (if it's a secret alt it's fine to not reveal)

This is technically an alt, yes, though it's my main account from henceforth. I'd rather not mention to old name due to having left it behind for personal (and honestly quite painful) memories. Sorry.

If its still D1 when I wake up I will respond to something I dont like about this. Its 3am tho and I need to get off my phone.

[Kowahbunga]

One other note, if this is a softclaim, which I'm guessing it isn't, feel free to just check me tonight. In fact, if there is a cop/similar role, check me, more than happy to definitively prove my innocence.

This doesn't feel like it comes from Town POV. It feels more like a dare from scum. Also I feel like I always hope any cop find scum with their shot(s) and that finding town is more on the side of a miss. Town confirming players is great and all, but this feels more like someone wanting to get their town clear so they can coast to the end of the game.

Here is the scenario that ran through my head from both POVs of Gryff!town and Gryff!scum.

Gryff!town wants to be town cleared without putting in any effort. I really can't see any other motivation to make this post from town POV. We'd all like to be town cleared... However, if there is a cop, and they do investigate Gryff!town - they would have to announce it on D2 for the rest of us to actually know anything. Which in turn risks the safety of the cop over one town clear. Are you really town cleared if one person knows it but doesn't say anything to the rest of us? I'm struggling to make something make sense for why a town person would ask for this.

Gryff!scum wants to be town cleared because maybe they have a role that investigates green to a cop and the sooner that information is revealed the easier scum have a path for victory. Or maybe scum have something to counter a cop once they know the cop, and Gryff is fine being a sacrifice to find the cop on D2.

I would think a cop is less likely to claim D2 with a green result on someone. Probably much more likely to claim on D2 if they get red. So I don't see much positive motivation from Gryff!town to think their best course this game is to just ask the cop to look at him.

[Kowahbunga]

I’m not entirely sure what geraint is trying to do with “ people have found me hard to play against as scum for some reason and i want to not have that happen this game”

ive found in recent games people find me hard to read. as scum ive been left alone, as town ive been eliminated. i want to avoid that and i am volunteering to be checked tonight, it will make me much happier if i know that someone has seen that i didn't do anything bad at night.

On the next page someone directed me to this with their quote. I don't remember reading this. I think there could be scum between Gryff and Geraintm - it doesn't make sense for two scum to want this. As in if they were both scum I don't see Gryff making their post I quoted. But I don't see this as a town!pov this early in the game so one of them has to be scum.

[Kowahbunga]

I wish y'all would play the game you signed up for rather than the game you wish you were playing.

I think my frustration with D1 comes from the confidence people have during it that I can't find myself to play with that early. It makes me feel inadequate as a player resulting in my dislike for the day. But with more information I feel more confident to give an opinion on events. In D1 I don't like giving opinions because I feel like it's not beneficial to blindly guess. It's different when you have blindly guess but with something to play pong with your head.

[Kowahbunga]

Kow

, let's just say we do no-lim, what is the benefit if you don't give content outside of the

Andante

tunnel?

My thing is this, a no-lim guarantees no wagon on a town power that gets to L1 and has to claim it to stay alive. A no lim means everyone has a night to potentially do something, and odds say if the scum have to pick randomly from the town (because, ya know, they lack any sort of indication about us at all), that they'll miss town powers. The game can really start on D2. Then there's at least people alive who maybe have information to be able to watch how things work and watch that player they know the truth about.

At this point though, it would probably be dumb to no lim this day. I'm more of an advocate of people using their first post in d1 to do it and not say anything. Scum have probably already sorted us and have an idea of who they're killing.

I just look at it from a RL perspective. Let's say this was actually happening and we had to kill people in our town to eradicate the bad people. Wouldn't you want as much information as you can get before making that decision? Or are you really okay just randomly picking someone on the basis of "maybe?" Obviously this isn't real life, but i just see a no lim allowing more town to be alive d2, and more information to come from d2 than the information we get from a d1 elimination on a player that is probably the easiest wagon to cast doubt on as to who was or wasn't on it.

It's obvious I'm in the minority though. Which really seems weird because I feel like I'm all the time reading posts from people about how much they hate D1, and then I present an alternative and it's shot down.

[Kowahbunga]

I wish y'all would play the game you signed up for rather than the game you wish you were playing.

I think my frustration with D1 comes from the confidence people have during it that I can't find myself to play with that early. It makes me feel inadequate as a player resulting in my dislike for the day. But with more information I feel more confident to give an opinion on events. In D1 I don't like giving opinions because I feel like it's not beneficial to blindly guess. It's different when you have blindly guess but with something to play pong with your head.

What about the pov where we generate enough info day 1, so that those with night actions can actually use them? Like, say we have a vig? If we race through day1, vig will likely random fire, but we talk, vig can shoot someone doing nothing, or can attempt to make a hero shot and get yelled at later if wrong, investigates, they read what happens, and make their best judgement from there, like, I feel like D1 isn't just "oh we're gonna lim town!!" it's also like, we see what was flipped, we see who was for/against it, who was scared to commit to a decision one way or the other, we get info, even if we do flip town. Then you have people like me who have played too much mafia in their life, and see the same "tells" people use, and honestly this game, its been a whole lot of people repeating ideas others said and clinging to them, those are the greatest red flags in my books, a close second is those not even trying to make reads, I don't expect perfection from anyone, I literally just need 1-2 reads from people, and that's definitely enough for me to get a general idea of them on day 1
uhhh that's mostly tangent I think, tldr: yeah I get we all play d1 differently, no need to feel inadequate! my personal style is more, I sort best I can d1, and then new, contradictory information changes the reads, and I reevaluate, but bulk of my effort is always day 1, cause we're not guaranteed a d2 or d3 here, so I feel I have to get my thoughts out now while I'm alive

I would argue a good vig would hold their shot as long as possible. Especially if the logic of that math in the post I was linked is so widely accepted. The longer a vig holds a shot, the more likely that shot hits scum assuming things aren't going well for town. But a N2 shot seems like a bad idea from a vig standpoint. However, I'm thinking this is just an example for all town powers and you're not specifically wanting my opinion on a vig now that I typed all this.

I think the best argument against me you just gave here with the "not guaranteed a d2 or d3 and so on" so you gotta play the days you're alive. That definitely makes more sense. I just get weirded out by the confidence and everyone looks scummy to me. I've always scum hunted by looking for absolutes. So D1 on this site feels like I'm just stuck in a bastard game because everyone is just so confident about their reads over the tiniest stuff and I see an absolute and i want to attack but as i attack that two other people have spoken in absolutes and all of a sudden I'm just lost in the woods reading everything forgetting to respond.

[Kowahbunga]

@Kowa

1. how many mafia games have you played before/how long have you been playing this game for?

2. it's a weird request but i want you to give me 3 or 4

fake reads

. if you're town, i want you to pretend to be scum for a few minutes and prove to me that you

can

fake reads by giving convincing reasons on them when you're lying. i want you to prove me that you can convincingly lie in the first place otherwise it sounds like you may just have no idea how to lie on reads as scum.

I've been playing probably 15 years.

I don't see a benefit in me wasting my time giving fake reads and pretending to be something. So I will not provide you with fake reads. I'm confident in my ability to lie about things and paint pictures if needed.

[Kowahbunga]

Oh - well he's objectively wrong so...

Yeah I'm honestly fine if people mostly feel i'm wrong and prefer to play the game the way that thread says to do it. In my opinion, I feel it would be better played the way I would play it out if I was every player in the game. I'm not, and so I try to fall in line.

I really didn't understand how I looked more scummy than andante from our initial interactions to everyone. It really confused me. So in my angst decided to try and present where i come from so i can show everyone a genuine me. I felt like at the point where I had obviously lost my argument with andante that by just moving on and playing the game it would look inadvertently fake and made the conscious decision to discuss this so I can show everyone where I'm coming from rather than try to just shift the blame somewhere else.

[Kowahbunga]

I've been playing probably 15 years.

I don't see a benefit in me wasting my time giving fake reads and pretending to be something. So I will not provide you with fake reads. I'm confident in my ability to lie about things and paint pictures if needed.

VOTE: kowah

i don't even think you're necessarily scum rn but i don't necessarily believe you can convincingly lie about reads either atm

you talk about needing more "info" to figure out the townies/scum but you don't even want to help me figure you out?

Okay well voting someone you don't think is scum just feeds into my point of the frustration of d1. It's also not very pro town.

[Kowahbunga]

@Kowah

3 fake reads with some good reasoning

that's all i'm gonna keep asking from you in this game. i need you to prove me and everyone else that you know how to lie so we can move from this.

from our PoV you can just be scum that doesn't know how to lie so far.

I refuse to lie. So no, ask all you want. First, that helps no one, I don't see your point in requesting it. Second, it will never feel or look real. Lying about a lie will look fake to me and won't prove anything because it's not in the moment. I'm confident in my ability to lie as scum, I'm not confident in my ability to lie about a lie, as scum or town.

[Kowahbunga]

VOTE: kowah

i don't even think you're necessarily scum rn but i don't necessarily believe you can convincingly lie about reads either atm

it's a bit hypocritical, and scummy, unfortunately.

so am i scummy or not?

[Kowahbunga]

I refuse to lie.

Are you mafia?

I am not

[Kowahbunga]

I'm at work for the next way too long, but I'll have my laptop to check in if we're not too busy. Unfortunately, we're always busy.

[Kowahbunga]

VOTE: Gryff

[Kowahbunga]

VOTE: Gryff

So why is no one questioning why Kow hopped on my wagon without saying anything

Scummy question.

Nah, just posing a genuine question, though I assume I know the answer - because everyone thinks Kow is just sick of this day and wants to get it over with.

Would you say that you town read me for being sick of this day and wanting to get it over with or you scum read me for it?

[Kowahbunga]

VOTE: Gryff

So why is no one questioning why Kow hopped on my wagon without saying anything

VOTE: Gryff

So why is no one questioning why Kow hopped on my wagon without saying anything

Scummy question.

Nah, just posing a genuine question, though I assume I know the answer - because everyone thinks Kow is just sick of this day and wants to get it over with.

I think Gryff knows my alignment from these two posts. So he is scum.

His AtE is weak too because there's always another game to join.

[Kowahbunga]

intent to hammer on page 70, which at this current rate gives gamma 15 minutes to decide if they want to claim anything first

[Kowahbunga]

VOTE: gamma

[Kowahbunga]

I will say I do believe Gamma was the scummiest of all so, good job everyone

huh?

Didn't Kow hammer?

I'm pre-emptively patting us on the back for catching scum

"us" were u on the wagon?

I was not because that would've been hammer

By chance have you seen Thor Ragnorak? The post-credits scene? I'm doing that bit

Why didn't you want to hammer scum?

[Kowahbunga]

I will say I do believe Gamma was the scummiest of all so, good job everyone

huh?

Didn't Kow hammer?

I'm pre-emptively patting us on the back for catching scum

"us" were u on the wagon?

I was not because that would've been hammer

By chance have you seen Thor Ragnorak? The post-credits scene? I'm doing that bit

Why didn't you want to hammer scum?

Because you already said you were going to lad

VOTE: gamma

Even despite the fact that he's been impatient with this day, this could be a scum hammer

Did he claim intent?

ok

[Kowahbunga]

Hello good morning

Hi - Are you surprised at all that Andante wasn't the kill?

[Kowahbunga]

Hello good morning

Hi - Are you surprised at all that Andante wasn't the kill?

not really

Like I just feel from you pointing out all those votes and how they were literally on everyone yesterday, just seemed like the best option for it early to me.

[Kowahbunga]

Hello good morning

Hi - Are you surprised at all that Andante wasn't the kill?

not really

Like I just feel from you pointing out all those votes and how they were literally on everyone yesterday, just seemed like the best option for it early to me.

i think she's town but it's tough to read into the NK too much, brickwall was townread by most too

When I look into a player death, I don't look too much into how others are/were reading them though. I more look at what they were saying. Like for me the NK is on the player that gives the least amount of info to town. To which I believe if Andante was town, it should have been them because from my POV of how I review the game, that's who was all over the place D1. So their reads from D1 would just be meaningless to us now because they literally suspected everyone.

So if you don't feel this way, and you feel brickwall was more town read than everyone else (maybe putting words in your mouth so feel free to correct me if this isn't what you meant, I mean you were pretty hard reading Andante as town D1 so for you to say what you said about Brick makes me think you'd be okay saying they were the most town player from D1?), then do you think brickwall had accurate reads on D1?

[Kowahbunga]

VOTE: Andante


Sup…. I’m here.

RVS but included for reasons.

I was going to vote Gamma anyways because my vote on Andante isn't legit but now it just seems like OMGUS haha. Oh well.

VOTE: Gamma

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Gamma

Embarrassing myself here

This first vote was the original vote, then they sort of stumbled with trying to link a post and voted for the post instead which is why I think they unvoted and voted gamma again...

@Kowah

3 fake reads with some good reasoning

that's all i'm gonna keep asking from you in this game. i need you to prove me and everyone else that you know how to lie so we can move from this.

from our PoV you can just be scum that doesn't know how to lie so far.

He doesn't need to prove it for me, you need him to prove it for you. Not everyone else.

VOTE: Lazy Shirou openly saying you think someone is town and then voting them because they won't comply with your request feels like borderline blackmail...

Votes on Shirou for good reason imo

Yo,

Like Red lost the game for a day but I am back now. Briefly caught up and if I missed any questions directed at me please point me in that direction.

Gryff is defs town imo and I won't be voting for him, although looks like a lot have dropped of the wagon now. Sorry to hear you are having a hard time of it, Gryff, but persistence is key. If you do get limmed there is always the next game. I joined the site for the first time when I was around 13/14 and can understand the difficulties but just know it is only a game and any frustrations or distress will pass eventually. It won't always be this frustrating and you will have fun eventually

Fire bringing the heat, excuse the pun. Good intro and like there game play so far. Driving town forward imo.

Taly

calling Gamma subdued is hilarious in my opinion. Especially considering she still hasn't explained her little blow up and refuses too. If

PP

is white knighting Klikk then there is an argument to say he should be looking in Taly's direction for this too.

*looks over to PP to see if he looks over to Taly*

Gamma still my number one closely followed by Geraint.

VOTE: Gamma

Going into my last meeting of the day and then will be back on this evening!

Back to Gamma wagon.



I'm here and feel like I'm missing a vote so I'm going to double check after I post this because I don't want to lose what I've done.

I will point out that a lot of their later posts seemed to be heavy on Andante as a topic and leaned towards suspicion.

Which makes me want to lean Shirou and Andante as scum currently. One, Shirou starting today trying to make a case against me for my hammer when Gamma clearly stated they weren't going to claim just has the feeling of someone who isn't reading the thread as much as they should be and that's always scummy to me.

Andante still feels scum even after everything we went through yesterday and it's going to take a lot for me to turn my eye away from that slot.

I'm going to find that one other vote before I make my vote.

[Kowahbunga]

Argh! Just realised my 2nd previous post I messed up, but I hope you can see what I wrote brickwall.

But you are doing exactly to me what you are complaining is being done to you. You've decided I am scummy fo some reason and all my actions - even ones that to me scream town - you are twisting to be scum

It isn't really the same thing though, is it? Andante literally posted saying 6 posts in she thinks I am scum, and then subsequently went through every post I made and made it align with her read.

In post 228 I said you were town leaning. My read changed when you posted 247. I am happy with my read for now and will reassess as the game continues.

But for now VOTE: Haschel, think we need something from this slot.

Found it!

I'd switch to an Andante wagon, but I think I want:

VOTE: Lazy Shirou

to go today.

[Kowahbunga]

I know what the loud part of Brick's role means but I'm not familiar with "novice" included, can someone share that info with me?

[Kowahbunga]

just because i and a few others have said andante is town, doesn't automatically make her a good kill. she pushed half the playerlist day 1 and dominated the posting during day 1 so why not keep her around if they don't see her as a threat

Because that's active scum hunting if she is town and eventually that gaze is going to make it's way on to them and that means everyone will be under pressure as long as she is in the game.

[Kowahbunga]

i kind of just want to kill my good bird friend penguin today.

Weird choice of language “kill”

I might need help with this since the word lynch isnt used anymore. Does kill now get a pass for being used?

[Kowahbunga]

i kind of just want to kill my good bird friend penguin today.

Weird choice of language “kill”

I might need help with this since the word lynch isnt used anymore. Does kill now get a pass for being used?

don't out my day vig dude

Shoot your shot and I will give you a town lean for 2 days

[Kowahbunga]

id rather u scum lean me for two days.
How do i get that

I scum lean everyone, so youre good

[Kowahbunga]

who could be easily convinced to vote herta

raise hands pls

I currently scum read you a lot, so I will not vote anyone you want to vote.

[Kowahbunga]

so if I vote elsewhere to trick you i can hammer later???

thx for the info

He that once deceives is ever suspected.

[Kowahbunga]

who could be easily convinced to vote herta

raise hands pls

I currently scum read you a lot, so I will not vote anyone you want to vote.

but who is more scum than not.
actual legit question i am taking ur post as a mostly shit post here but who is not scum and who is more scum in ur eyes.

I will answer this the next time I enjoy my computer chair

[Kowahbunga]

who could be easily convinced to vote herta

raise hands pls

I currently scum read you a lot, so I will not vote anyone you want to vote.

but who is more scum than not.
actual legit question i am taking ur post as a mostly shit post here but who is not scum and who is more scum in ur eyes.

I will answer this the next time I enjoy my computer chair

I'm more scumreading Lazy and Andante, I have a post earlier explaining how I've come to that current read list. I myself will be happy focusing these two today, because I don't like how the game feels when I try and create a scum case or town case on everyone all the time.

I'm more than receptive to enjoy someone else's work if it strikes a chord with me and I agree with it. Then I can be lured into voting someone else of course. But for this day I'm paying extra close attention to how Lazy and Andante play.

[Kowahbunga]

You know what would be a cool feature on this forum, assuming it's not already and I'm just not noticing it? Is that as you read you can mark posts crap or not crap. Then you can read all the not crap posts to remove all the crap posts that mean nothing out of the way. Would probably shrink this 48 page game down to like 4.8 pages.

[Kowahbunga]

Fun. It's what's for dinner.

I'm fine having some fun, but I feel like there is a LOT of fluff in a LOT of posts so far. I feel like conversations from D1 have been more serious and productive than anything going on now.

[Kowahbunga]

I love how rather than talking about the Gamma lim at all, yall are all “OMG PENGUIN!!!” like congrats for realizing you ignored him yesterday? Not a single one of you wants to talk about the actual lim we had?

I have thoughts on it I’m not typing out on mobile, but this shift to penguin is wild, why not ask him for a gif list? it’s reads, but in gif form

but yeah, unless I missed it, where’s the Gamma talk?
I was not a fan of that post hammer conversation, and especially seeing a green flip, Gryff is lock scum

VOTE: Gryff

thanks for coming to my ted talk, and now I have 2 hours to get something done… 30 minutes of that will be spent on the bus… hahahahaha I’m toast. k bye. wait 1 sec I loved a post…

What's your read on me?

[Kowahbunga]

red makes me feel safe

[Kowahbunga]

I'm at work, but at my laptop. How is everyone today?

[Kowahbunga]

magical

I don't know what it is. I don't know if it's intentional (if it is, it's impressive) but I can't read many of your posts without feeling slapped by sarcasm.

[Kowahbunga]

The kids have been a lot today but we're having a good time. How about you?

I like red's case on you. How does that make you feel?

[Kowahbunga]

The thing that stood out to me the most was the claim of buddying on D1. I thought about it from my point of view, being buddies with people on D1 seems like a survival tactic. It was just that tiny thing that made me think "oh, ya know, that seems like the opposite thing town would do on D1"

The only reason I haven't voted you is because I haven't done my own research to see if that's even true. I don't recall seeing you deny it.

[Kowahbunga]

Scum do indeed try to buddy people as a survival tactic sometimes

The only real response that I have is the one I've already given, which is that finding townreads early is kind of my standard in every game that I've played in the past 2ish years at least. This is verifiable if anyone genuinely cares about this line of reasoning.

'Early townreads = buddying' is pure speculation without actually making a point. Is there something about the *way* I formed my townreads that makes it buddying as opposed to me forming a townread on a player? That's the kind of analysis that needs to happen to actually get anything out of this line of reasoning. If my alleged motive was to get you and Gryff on my side, there should be some evidence for that?

I can be okay with this response and like the tone of it.

[Kowahbunga]

I'm in a pickle here. I feel like town are very disjointed currently. And this day is losing steam and I don't know how much else will be learned from it until a lim.

So my initial thought is to leave my desired lim as no one seems interested in Shirou. I see no point in pushing a new wagon, so that leaves me with the current bunch:

Klick (3): redFF, Herta, geraintm
PenguinPower (2) Firebringer, GamerGryff
geraintm (2): Klick, PenguinPower

Are the three wagons with 2 or more votes. Of everyone, Red is the only person who currently gets a solid town read from me. It makes sense to join who he is voting for. Problem with that is, I like Klick as a town lean. Our convo earlier felt nice, so I don't feel comfortable joining that wagon.

What about Penguin? I don't have a read on them or Fire as of this moment, but I've got a slight scum lean on Gryff. So that causes me to pause before voting here.

Geraintm's wagon has a town lean of mine in Klick, and a null in Penguin. So this feels like the party I want to join.

VOTE: geraintm

[Kowahbunga]

So my initial thought is to leave my desired lim as no one seems interested in Shirou.

That's not correct. Fire says to wait a day on Shirou.

Shirou is town yall.
I would explain but i think ill save my explanation for day 3.

I don't understand how what I said isn't correct?

[Kowahbunga]

I'm missing something here, because I'm saying no one is interested in voting Shirou. I was the only one voting Shirou, and you say that's not correct, that fire wants to wait a day on Shirou, but the only thing I see about Fire mentioning Shirou is stating "Shiroe is town" so tell me who is interested in a Shirou lim.

[Kowahbunga]

The thing that stood out to me the most was the claim of buddying on D1. I thought about it from my point of view, being buddies with people on D1 seems like a survival tactic. It was just that tiny thing that made me think "oh, ya know, that seems like the opposite thing town would do on D1"

The only reason I haven't voted you is because I haven't done my own research to see if that's even true. I don't recall seeing you deny it.

who si this aimed at?

I'm in a pickle here. I feel like town are very disjointed currently. And this day is losing steam and I don't know how much else will be learned from it until a lim.

So my initial thought is to leave my desired lim as no one seems interested in Shirou. I see no point in pushing a new wagon, so that leaves me with the current bunch:

Klick (3): redFF, Herta, geraintm
PenguinPower (2) Firebringer, GamerGryff
geraintm (2): Klick, PenguinPower

Are the three wagons with 2 or more votes. Of everyone, Red is the only person who currently gets a solid town read from me. It makes sense to join who he is voting for. Problem with that is, I like Klick as a town lean. Our convo earlier felt nice, so I don't feel comfortable joining that wagon.

What about Penguin? I don't have a read on them or Fire as of this moment, but I've got a slight scum lean on Gryff. So that causes me to pause before voting here.

Geraintm's wagon has a town lean of mine in Klick, and a null in Penguin. So this feels like the party I want to join.

VOTE: geraintm

so you don't think i am scum, you lean Gryff as scum, but you are voting me because you like the people who are currently voting me?

1288 was directed at 1286 which was responding to 1284.

I never gave a read on you. So I never said "I don't think you are scum". I am scum leaning gryff, and would vote him. However, at the time of the post you're inquiring about, there were three leading wagons and I was trying to compromise with those already on it because my preferred lynch is Shirou. However, no one wanted to join me today. I'm currently voting for you because someone I lean town on is, and someone I'm null on is. The other two options were voting a town read (Klick) or voting with a scum lean (gryff).

[Kowahbunga]

@firebringer

i missed the humour, sorry.

@kowahbunga

i was at one time interested in Shirou, but they have been cleared for now by Firebringer so i am not going near that now.

your vote is very sheepy.

@redff and @penguin

ok, i suppose, their post was very convoluted and so i didn't spend the time to decipher it

Can a vote be sheepy if I openly say it's sheepy? I always took sheepy more as a sneaky thing to do.

[Kowahbunga]

Then yeah, I'm being sheepy.

p.edit

VOTE: gryff

I'm definitely down for a lim there too. I will openly sheep back to Geraintm if that wagon gets closer to lim because I'm approaching "ready for this day to be over" territory.

[Kowahbunga]

i've thought gryff may be scum since page 15 but wanted to let him play for a bit given i can be wrong and i know it sucks to die so quickly in a game you waited awhile to play, but uh kowah just slids into every wagon in a way that doesn't feel like he has real reads

do u even believe on anything strongly kowah

u sound like the kind of guy to just go along with room temperature atm and i'm wondering if it's alignment indicative

You sound like someone who hasn't read anything I've posted this game.

[Kowahbunga]

i don't think u have pushed the people you scum read as much as you've tried to explain/excuse your own behavior and voted the consensus top wagons

there's only a single post in your ISO that i kinda like and i'm holding off saying which it is for now

I'm not going to push people. I'm not an interrogator. I believe firmly in my ability to catch scum as each day goes on with new information provided after each day and I believe much less in my ability to grill someone into saying something that will condemn them. I will present my case for the day as I see it and let the other players use the information as they may. If they don't believe my opinion, then I'll consider theirs/the groups. That's why I was fine just choosing from the three leading wagons.

[Kowahbunga]

if he flips scum i think we gotta kill herta tomorrow

Again with the "kill" verbiage. Firebringer said "kill" earlier too. I've always thought of this as non-town language.

[Kowahbunga]

this wagon has risen up so fast again tho

are u guys busing or is this really just that easy of a limbait for scum

deep questions

p-edit: fair i think i'm too curious about his flip even though it's curious how his wagon got close to lim so quickly on both days

p-edit 2: i went back to check votecount and i think it's E-1, so Gryff should claim.

VOTE: Gryff

I already did. Red is 100% correct that my post was a softclaim. Unless this is a game where role pms are lies, in which case I have no idea what my actual role would be in that case

Keep an eye on Shirou and andante. Red and Penguin too.

Intent to hammer after I get home tonight

A townie wouldn't hammer themselves let alone threaten to.

Second time this game they've given intent to hammer themselves.

[Kowahbunga]

I'd like a Herta claim too plz

[Kowahbunga]

I'm the motion detector. Geraintm night 1 and there was movement. Kowabungah Night 2 no movement

Why are you leaving out part of it?

[Kowahbunga]

I'm the motion detector. Geraintm night 1 and there was movement. Kowabungah Night 2 no movement

Why are you leaving out part of it?

Huh

According to what the mod sent me, you're loud. Why not mention that? Just seems weird to leave that bit off.

[Kowahbunga]

Is Fire town cleared to be clearing Andante and Shirou?

[Kowahbunga]

I'm the motion detector. Geraintm night 1 and there was movement. Kowabungah Night 2 no movement

Why are you leaving out part of it?

Huh

According to what the mod sent me, you're loud. Why not mention that? Just seems weird to leave that bit off.

Why is that weird? I mean you knew I was loud and gerantm knew it and I had already told everyone. I really hadn't even thought about it when I claimed.

I think it's weird because if I was loud I would mention it. Maybe it's nothing, but it stood out to me so I thought I'd mention it.

[Kowahbunga]

Please let me know when I can claim.

[Kowahbunga]

omg page top

[Kowahbunga]

Heyyy I'm a VT and think we should lim the VTs

[Kowahbunga]

I can confirm Herta did visit me last night. Though I was just told they targeted me with a loud action, nothing else.

[Kowahbunga]

Heyyy I'm a VT and think we should lim the VTs

wolf...or just wolf siding?

[Kowahbunga]

I'm at work, and would give 1(one) free town lean and a half eaten chocolate chip cookie if someone would finish that claim list and maybe, just maybe include dead players and their roles.

[Kowahbunga]

Gamma = Announcing Lazy Hider
Brickwall = Loud Novice Follower
Gryff = VT
Klick = Loud Announcing JOAT (Motion-finder, Watcher-finder, Neapolitan, Tracker)

Shirou = VT
Andante = VT
PenguinPower = VT
Kowah = VT
redFF = VT

Firebringer = Loud Loyal Visitor
Geraintm = Announcing Compulsive Voyeur
Herta = Loud Roaming Motion Detector
Freedom = Announcing Roaming Watcher

I feel like a lot of these claimed roles are similar. Am I wrong?

[Kowahbunga]

Especially when you consider what Klick and Brick were capable of?

[Kowahbunga]

I think there's 2 scum in the PRs, and 1 is claiming VT. I think it's very likely the loud is the key to it all. Like they're probably compulsive and have to visit so they can't risk being VT. Plus I think it's like 6 VTs to 7 PRs, and that Neapolitan shot that Klick had makes me think there's a large pool of VTs.

[Kowahbunga]

I was targeted by Firebringer with a loud action last night.

[Kowahbunga]

So based on Fire's claims, Loud Loyal Visitor, the fact I got a message saying you targeted me with a loud action, and the fact you're loyal means it wouldn't have worked if I wasn't the same alignment as you. I'm guessing now based on your reaction you get no confirmation if you succeed outside of the person you yell at communicating with you here that you've been heard.

So now I need to figure out if there's any way Andante or Shirou could have fake claimed your visits to them.

I'll reread those bits for sure to see how much I believe them.

I am leaning on believing them, because early days of the game all I did was focus Andante D1 and Shirou D2 meaning scum were probably happy with me not being on them and allowed me to live to see the day here.

[Kowahbunga]

I just realized that I have no idea if Fire is actually even telling the truth about his role. So I can no longer just assume he was actually loyal. I only know whatever he is is loud.

Freedom, did Fire visit me?

[Kowahbunga]

I just realized that I have no idea if Fire is actually even telling the truth about his role. So I can no longer just assume he was actually loyal. I only know whatever he is is loud.

Freedom, did Fire visit me?

Freedom visited me

Okay I misread Watcher role, so he would be able to confirm that Herta targeted you, but not confirm you visited me.

Second question then, Freedom. Who all did you target each night of the game?

[Kowahbunga]

And Herta can confirm if Fire was targeted and if Fire targeted. So Herta, what's your info on Fire from last night?

[Kowahbunga]

Motion detected at firebringer's joint.

All I saw was motion detected. That's all I can see.

If I'm reading your role right on the wiki, shouldn't you have been told two separate things? Because you should be able to target a player and learn if anything was done by or to them. But you're only getting a single message back for a result that just says "motion detected"?

[Kowahbunga]

I would like to talk to shirou more today.
Hey shirou u get that thing i sent u

I would like to talk to shirou more today.
Hey shirou u get that thing i sent u

Yes i felt ur love for me

I would like to talk to shirou more today.
Hey shirou u get that thing i sent u

Yes i felt ur love for me

did u actually get something last night or is this a shit post.

I didn't get anything I just felt your embrace in that cold green flip night

It was warm, like a firepup

okay i don't need to worry about Shirou anymore methinks.

That makes the game more spicy

So did what Shirou say make you think they got something?

[Kowahbunga]

I think after reading what I wanted to read I believe the scum team is either one of the following

Andante, Shirou, Firebringer

or

Freedom, Herta, Penguin

If Fire is telling the truth about being loyal, then he is town cleared to me and if he is confident in his results with Andante and Shirou (which to be honest it doesn't look like he is and I can understand why given it doesn't seem like he gets a confirmation back) then they're all town too because they wouldn't have gotten anything otherwise.

My big hang up in just going full in here is that he was so quick to be cool with both of them but has only doubted the action with me which just feels weird. Like 1575 he goes all in calling Andante and Shirou both town very confidently. But in contrast after 1913, he hasn't given me that same benefit of the doubt.

That said, I feel like faking the loyal thing seems risky, but maybe I'm looking too much into it. If he is scum and he is just loud and he knows everyone will hear him so claiming loyal means nothing other than to make the town he clears feel better about him.

I also don't understand why I wasn't the first one chosen to claim. Like I almost feel set up by him in that regard seeing as I'm fairly certain it was up to him who went first and now he scum reads me for his choice.

It feels weird for it to be as easy as just trusting his three results and solving the game.

One thing that swings me to Fire town is Herta's claim post that just something feels off about them leaving out the loud part. Like I knew they were loud already because they visited me and I was told they visited because they were loud. So to leave it out makes me think the loud was the part they were used to and they got hung up trying to be sure they typed their fakeclaim correctly.

Also to answer your question Herta from 1984 - I was doing that mostly so I could try and fully grasp what all happened last night to see if anything made sense or not made sense. I feel like we have all these powers apparently and we haven't been properly mulling over them and the details to make sure we're not missing something.

[Kowahbunga]

I didn't get anything I just felt your embrace in that cold green flip night

It was warm, like a firepup

Help me understand, because it clearly says "I didn't get anything..." but you knew they did? Help.

[Kowahbunga]

I gotta get to bed. I have more to say but I want to think about it and probably dream about the game to see if something sticks out.

[Kowahbunga]

So does that mean, if Fire is town, then Herta and Freedom are confirmed town to him because their action succeeded and Fire was able to confirm theu visited them?

[Kowahbunga]

probably kow

How do you figure?

[Kowahbunga]

probably kow

How do you figure?

if we're assuming that one of the clears is fake you had the easiest time faking it

This logic can't come from a town POV. There was a plan agreed on prior to that night phase even happening. I was following the directions presented and agreed on. I also don't see why I would lie about getting something there. From a scum!kowah POV if I'm scum and Fire is town, and I say I got something when I wouldn't have, then I'm caught. My best play would have been to tell the truth, even as scum, in hopes that Fire visited someone else who also just claimed they didn't get anything.

Faking getting something could have potentially outed two scum. Fire says "I didn't visit you, I visited this other person who said they didn't get anything" two scum dead. Me saying I didn't get something at best kills one scum from that night action. This makes no sense for scum!kowahbunga to lie.

[Kowahbunga]

My big hang up in just going full in here is that he was so quick to be cool with both of them but has only doubted the action with me which just feels weird. Like 1575 he goes all in calling Andante and Shirou both town very confidently. But in contrast after 1913, he hasn't given me that same benefit of the doubt.

He came to the realization that his clears may not be accurate and is reconsidering. I thought that was apparent.

One thing that swings me to Fire town is Herta's claim post that just something feels off about them leaving out the loud part. Like I knew they were loud already because they visited me and I was told they visited because they were loud. So to leave it out makes me think the loud was the part they were used to and they got hung up trying to be sure they typed their fakeclaim correctly.

I told everyone that I was loud in my very first post. What I forgot when I claimed was the other part, the roaming thing. You didn't find that strange when I fake claimed? You didn't find it strange that instead of claiming loud roaming motion detector I claimed just motion detector? I mean I guess I left off both modifiers. Probably because the role is motion detector and I didn't think about the modifiers. I must be going crazy. Like why are you hung up on the loud part? I softed loud, geraintm heard me visit, you heard me visit.

While you're here.

My original suspicion was just about the loud bit because I knew at the time you were loud because of what I got. I wasn't calling out the roaming bit because I didn't even notice that bit of conversation. The part that sticks out is your claim missing the part that I knew about your role. I'm sorry that sticks out to me, it just does. To be honest, I'm apologizing for something that is your fault and not mine. I'm supposed to be here over analyzing dumb minuscule stuff to help me make a decision.

[Kowahbunga]

probably kow

How do you figure?

if we're assuming that one of the clears is fake you had the easiest time faking it

This logic can't come from a town POV. There was a plan agreed on prior to that night phase even happening. I was following the directions presented and agreed on. I also don't see why I would lie about getting something there. From a scum!kowah POV if I'm scum and Fire is town, and I say I got something when I wouldn't have, then I'm caught. My best play would have been to tell the truth, even as scum, in hopes that Fire visited someone else who also just claimed they didn't get anything.

Faking getting something could have potentially outed two scum. Fire says "I didn't visit you, I visited this other person who said they didn't get anything" two scum dead. Me saying I didn't get something at best kills one scum from that night action. This makes no sense for scum!kowahbunga to lie.

Well - that assumes that the pool of targets were all scum. You saying "No" is a instayeet whereas you gambiting on "Yes" is not an instayeet in a situation where scum can pick up the win today.

Of course, all of this requires FB to be town and/or for one of his clears to be wrong which is not a position I want to argue atm.

scum!kowahbunga would have known how many scum were in the three he was randoming (new word) from. So if I'm scum and it was just me out of those three that are scum, and they both claimed not visited, then yeah I could see a world where maybe choosing to fakeclaim a yes happens if I wasn't thinking about the situation. But scum!kowahbunga would have to be trusting that town!fire actually visited from the pool he was supposed to. It would still be safest for scum to just say they didn't get anything in that instance because the truth would only catch one scum where a lie would potentially catch two if town!fire visited someone outside of that pool. The fact I went last after everyone else saying they didn't get anything and saying I do isn't the gambit I think you all think it is. Assuming there are three scum left, and assuming town!fire doesn't hit the nk with his action, he would have had a 50% chance of visiting scum. If everyone says "no" i didn't get anything" that's only one FOR SURE caught scum. If one person says they did get something, and that person isn't who Fire visited, then town!fire has caught 2 scum. Scum lying about getting the loud action is riskier than telling the truth.

I'm trying to tell you that scum!kowahbunga would know to think like this. The only way I'm scum is if I said no to his visit. I don't like to lie as either faction. I do my best to avoid it at all costs as scum. That's how scum lose games. In their lies. Not only that but I would have done the math and collateral damage control numbers in my head to know exactly what I'm explaining to you now.

If any of fire's results are shady it's the result on Shirou who he practically walked to an answer. Shirou posted 4 times before mentioning it and actually had to be prodded. I don't understand how if you're able to look at my situation of being last one asked if I got anything and saying yes is any different or any less scummy that Shirou not bringing it up with their first 4 posts and only after Fire asked them twice to confirm something happened.

[Kowahbunga]

If any of fire's results are shady it's the result on Shirou who he practically walked to an answer.

This requires Fire/Shirou both being scum or Fire being scum and so wasn't applicable to the scenario that was being discussed.

But why would scum!fire have to walk scum!shirou to answer a question they likely already would have talked about? The situation doesn't feel fake to me. It feels like Fire trying to get something then getting impatient and wanting a definitive answer.

It would take crazy hard core planning ahead of time and a script to make that scenario be scum and scum. Maybe those two are capable of it. The only awkward part of the interaction to me is still how Fire was cool with Shirou's final answer but even then it wasn't like a definitive "oh good shirou 101% town now".

But damn now that I think more about it, if I was in Fire's chair, and saw that final answer Shirou gave I wouldn't have been satisfied as town!kowahbunga unless I was scum!kowahbunga. The final answer literally says "I didn't get anything" which from my current POV is false, because I got something. I got a message from the mod that says I was targeted by Fire's loud action. So the wording Shirou used in:

I didn't get anything I just felt your embrace in that cold green flip night

It was warm, like a firepup

Is not how I would have answered the question.

p.edit
@2288 - this made me read back because the way I remembered it was that andante came right out and said they had a visitor, but there's actually a hint from Fire that he went there in his first post which would have tipped Andante off if they're scum. How do you find Shirou's to be the most likely to be true though? I really can't see how theirs was sketchier than mine. That whole interaction was just weird af.

[Kowahbunga]

Herta was not on the final Gryff or Geraint wagon.

The only person who was on the wagon of every lim was Shirou.

[Kowahbunga]

i'm not sure herta was on every wagon on hindsight but i do think he was on most of them

either way i'm not answering any more of your scum questions until you reply me on why you i feel like "skitter redux" @Herta.

Herta was not on the final Gryff or Geraint wagon.

The only person who was on the wagon of every lim was Shirou.

your point?

[Kowahbunga]

i want to hear from herta/freedom/kow who they think is the best yeet for today

i don't want to hear from shirou or fire or andante until those three start talking more

Kow, who's the best yeet?

I feel like Herta has given me the most reasons to vote there today. But it's not that simple imo.

I was really hoping to see people commenting on our earlier exchange about the Fire/Me thing.

Like I feel like I want to see Andante and Shirou be more confident in their opinion on if Fire is legit or not. I just want to see them stand up for the apparent thing that should be town clearing them or calling it bullshit because I think it would help me finish my read on Fire.

[Kowahbunga]

oooooh - good way to get my blood boiling

I just felt like Shirou made a very incorrect accusation about Herta being on every wagon when it was actually Shirou that has been. Herta ended D1 as the E1 on Gamma, was voting Klick on D2 end, and was not voting D3 end.

Do you think it's elo?

[Kowahbunga]

Do you think it's elo?

it is objectively elo

Shirou voted Herta and Herta had that vote on them for 27 minutes. To me, that feels like either Herta is scum because there was no quick lim to win, or Shirou is scum because there was no quick lim because they needed one town on the wagon to make it happen and didn't get it. 27 minutes is a long time imo for town to have a vote on them in elo unless it was a scum vote or they were scum themselves. Do you think scum have daytalk?

What did you delete?

[Kowahbunga]

tbf there likely wasn't enough time for the entire scum team to come online to quickyeet if herta/shirou is scum there (I was watching for that reason). 27 minutes in a game that has 10 day deadlines is not long.

I really encourage you to read the rules of the games you sign up for and closely scrutinize the posts within them

1. Scum have daytalk.

To be clear - since I am a site mod - I did not actually delete anything. I backspaced a post about you and herta being partners prior to posting it.

Oh yeah I didn't think you deleted anything, I knew you meant didn't post what you had typed.

And that's on me for not reading the rules to be honest. Game started while I was at work so it was on mobile and then never got around to reading the first posts after that.

[Kowahbunga]

still want to yeet herta

I want people to be playing now. I want town to be on here sharing their thoughts. Andante has essentially ghosted us. Freedom has posted 15 times in 4 days. I know I'm not the most talkative either but it's like I'm finally here to talk and have been sharing my thoughts since this day phase started and no one else is now.

Herta is definitely someone that I would find it hard to be upset if they were limmed. However, I feel like I'd rather see who ends up on what wagons before I made a decision that meant anything.

[Kowahbunga]

Okay this is probably pretty late in the game for me to be wondering this. I've taken the advice of reading the first post. Is "Complex" actually something changing the game somehow? Because I just took it as a boring adjective and literally that Enchant was just saying "hey my game is going to be hard" - but I noticed it was capitalized in the first post... So I just happened to see if it meant something in the wiki... And that term has a page in the wiki.

So, like, is that changing something in the game? Would people be flipping with the word "complex" in their role, or is it applied to everyone? Or was I actually right and the game is just meant to be difficult?

Also, 6 deaths, 1 VT among them.. 5 town powers dead in an 11 player game.

I feel like an idiot for not reading the first post now.

[Kowahbunga]

Okay this is probably pretty late in the game for me to be wondering this. I've taken the advice of reading the first post. Is "Complex" actually something changing the game somehow? Because I just took it as a boring adjective and literally that Enchant was just saying "hey my game is going to be hard" - but I noticed it was capitalized in the first post... So I just happened to see if it meant something in the wiki... And that term has a page in the wiki.

So, like, is that changing something in the game? Would people be flipping with the word "complex" in their role, or is it applied to everyone? Or was I actually right and the game is just meant to be difficult?

Also, 6 deaths, 1 VT among them.. 5 town powers dead in an

13

player game.

I feel like an idiot for not reading the first post now.

ebwop

[Kowahbunga]

yay things to read. i'm pretty busy tonight but i'll definitely read all this tomorrow, hopefully there is even more

[Kowahbunga]

oh is it this really what i've come back to

[Kowahbunga]

I had fun but I really couldn't get a read on people. I played awful.

[Kowahbunga]

I had fun but I really couldn't get a read on people. I played awful.

I was scared of you all game lol, I'd say you were doing well!!

I never really stopped scum reading you after our D1 thing. That case you made out of thin air just set bells off in my head. The whole thing with Fire just fucked with my head.

[Kowahbunga]

I enjoyed the game. Some events, now looking back, strike me as wtf was I thinking.

-How quickly town (myself included) let everyone forget Red was confirmed and practically ignored his insight the rest of the day. Like he wasn't even voting for anyone before he was NK.
-Fire being the one to decide when I would claim if I was visiting and then instantly scum reading me for it (like, from town!fire I get the conundrum, but I shouldn't have let that go) but this did set bells off in my head but I wanted so bad to town read him so he could be town cleared so I could try and put the game together.
-Apologies to Herta for the scum read. I was really looking for something to sink my teeth into and that claim of yours just seemed like I finally found something. But if it makes you feel any better I could never bring myself to vote you the final day.
-Looking back, with Fire's claimed power, scum killing him over an IC makes sense and I should have put pressure on Fire for it.

I'm sure there's more.

How do I get access to the Discord now?

[Kowahbunga]

wp scum
andante came right out the gates so well
FB bold ass claim

for the record, the day 3 wagon went down while i was sleeping and i would've wanted to lim freedom who admitted to targeting the NK but when i woke up the geraint lim went through already, but i don't think it would've changed much

i was curious about my role, do people think i shoulda held it longer before activating?

regardless GG scum well played. this was my first game back in many years and i had a fun time despite my reads being dogshit

I think in hindsight it would have been awesome to hold it another day. But I think the timing of it was fine.

[Kowahbunga]

welp, gg

i was secret fourth mafia traitor

May I ask why you replaced yourself?

[Kowahbunga]

I'd still love to know why Shirou replaced themselves. Just curious really. But if I'll never know, I'm fine with that too.

[Kowahbunga]

mafia pt will only open if Freedom says it's cool or are you also waiting on Taly and whoever Fire replaced?

[Kowahbunga]

I think if Fire had been town, we would have won.