Mini Normal 2294: Monkey Business (Endgame)

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its possible that kawa is scum and the spot y'all decided to bus, I guess we'll figure that out later

but this thing you're doing is quite frankly not very likely to be town play

Like to anyone looking at this^

How are you reading this and believing it’s town?

Originally I’m scum because I’m trying to mislim kawaii for making an innocent mistake

Now even if kawaii is scum (preparing for tomorrow in case he can’t get me through today where kawaii gets flipped instead) then I’m probably bussing. How does it make any sense for me to bus the person claiming PR when if we were gonna do that it would make infinitely more sense for me to have claimed PR and then bussed

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Yes I’m simplifying it yadda yadda whatever, at it’s core that’s what’s going on

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Yes I’m simplifying it yadda yadda whatever, at it’s core that’s what’s going on

for instance how can you be so sure kawa is scum? your interpretation of the game is that kawa is scum and I'm powerwolfing it to oblivion by having the nerve to defend him, okay I got it. but how are you so sure that kawa is scum, anyway? I don't see either in his posting or in his claim something as damning as both you and sky are/were making it out to be.

I’m not sure

I never was and I’m still not

Kawaii, on his own, in fact, would not be strongly lending me to scumread him over townread him

Viewed holistically in light of your play, I feel more confident that you’re scum than he is (you plural for you and comus) and the fact you’ve both been wolfing this hard makes me think it probably spews kawaii scum too

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Idk I just think that both gimli and comus are blatantly open wolfing and they’re just being allowed to both get away with it and it’s wild to me that apparently nobody is sharing that perception

I mean i've thought the entire game that gimli and comus were both kind of scummy but i really struggled to see the animosity from d1 as s/s and i still feel that way.

Also like would town klick be getting this rolled by scum gimli? Idk

That is exactly what the worry about klick!slot is atp

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Don’t really have time to play today but if we’re talking lim preference this is mine:

Comus -> gimli -> kawaii -> klick -> gera -> enchant/sky -> ausuka

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I guess I should clarify now I’m at e-1 that I’m actually an informed townie, I’m informed that this game includes ligma

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Ligma nutzzzzzzz haha gottem

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(Appreciate u letting me get that one ausuka, it’s a balm on the soul)

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I really want to hammer for that

Tbf it’s how I always wanted to go

Ligma nutzzzzzzz haha gottem

You're lucky i'm not a minor anymore

I nearly didn’t then remembered you were in uni and figured I was in the clear

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I am legit almost sad that klick didn’t hammer me there because I’ve never won post of the year before but I think that sequence of events would’ve been a shoe in

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Why do you actually think Comus is scum Mena

The very, very cliff notes — the way he changed off from me being locktown with ausuka to me being scum when gimli started pushing me felt really forced and I don’t believe it for an instant, I also don’t believe his PR claim and think his positing of a world of (mena, sky, enchant) as the team is completely ridiculous because in that case setup balance has basically been taken out behind the wood shed, shot in the back of the head, and buried in a shallow grave

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How do we feel about me adding a Cato-the-Elder-style “Comus necandae est” to the end of all my posts?

Comus necandae est!

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Why do you actually think Comus is scum Mena

The very, very cliff notes — the way he changed off from me being locktown with ausuka to me being scum when gimli started pushing me felt really forced and I don’t believe it for an instant, I also don’t believe his PR claim and think his positing of a world of (mena, sky, enchant) as the team is completely ridiculous because in that case setup balance has basically been taken out behind the wood shed, shot in the back of the head, and buried in a shallow grave

So he had a forced change of read on you (fwiw he did the exact same thing to me a couple of times this game day), he is potentially fakeclaiming (I agree that the claim is most likely completely unreliable), and he has a full solve that's bad mechanics-wise (he has also been doing this full-solve thing basically all game)

I get that all of those behaviours are not very pro-town but I also fail to see how it follows that it means he has a red Role PM

Uh actually the fake claiming thing is irrelevant it’s the other two things, but the second especially in the context of the first

I think having a big shift in reads doesn’t mean scum, but when it’s (1) forced (bad sign, as I don’t think town often have to force it they just realise it and change) and (2) providing justifications that make little/no sense (e.g. I’m on a team with sky and enchant) then actually yes, those things do tend to mean a red role pm

And in the broader context I still think that kawaii is, on balance, more likely to be scum than town and here I have the additional info that comus’ change in direction was towards pushing town and away from limming what is probable scum

So taking the forced nature of the shift alongside the objectives of said shift, yes, I think it all adds up to making comus very likely scum

Outside of that, just the way he has interacted with me since then (including cheekily admitting that I’d caught him) all feels like interacting with scum but I can see how that’s entirely subjective and unlikely to convince anyone not already locktowning me and who trusts my reads (which in this game is no one but I mention it as it feeds into why comus is the slot I’m most confident on atp)

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I disagree with premise (1) that Gimli has been doing nothing btw

What did gimli do then

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Gimli this game reminds me in broad strokes of fire in this game: viewtopic.php?t=89500

Where everyone else thought fire was town (for being around and active and talking to and with people) and I just sort of said that I couldn’t really see the town there or in any of what he was doing until I died

And then he flipped scum at the end and we lost :shrug:

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Obviously different players but it feels the same in everyone townbinning gimli and me just not seeing it and being told that he’s apparently locktown despite there not being anything really towny that he did all game (arguably I can see the case for him solving today but I’m obviously unsympathetic to that given how much of the “solving” was “working hard to get me (mena) limmed”)

I sort of want to give him credit for not hammering but I also think that given he knows I flip town and he’s put enough work in that he just doesn’t want to be on me when I get flipped

And ofc if we flip someone else who isn’t town then I’m an easy push for game winning mislim tomorrow

I can’t fault him strategically, I think he’s played a great game and has targeted the right people I suppose

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I think that if I’m right and you’re scum you’ve played this really really well gimli, and if I’m wrong and you’re town then uh I guess I think you’ve played fine and my bad

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I think the funniest thing about 3485 is the suggestion that I’m bad at theatre when that’s like only good part of my scumgame nowadays lol

Also I forgot the last time but Comus necandae est

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like i think mena's read here is fairly blatantly that now he thinks gimli's play wasn't towny (which i agree with largely, my doubts on gimli mostly come from today? although my read on him has been pretty fuzzy ever since elsa faked that inno result) rather than he didn't think that back then

gimli trying to spin it to get back on mena and trying to squirm out of townreading me (which like, not having me as locktown is kind of fair, but then why did he ever have me as locktown in the first place? what changes there?) just feels gross

i think it's pretty likely gimli + kawaii + 3

Well plus side is you probably die after i get flipped so we can commiserate together in dead thread while the remaining town probably flip like, sky or gera or something

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Is there anything we’re particularly waiting on or does someone wanna hammer me? I’m not doing it myself obviously in case there’s a last minute change of heart and we flip I guess kawaii instead

But if that’s not happening then someone should pull their thumb out and do it

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I still think tomorrow it should be either comus or gimli first, then kawaii later

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Please listen to me on comus, you were feeling it on D2 and I’m now convinced you were right

My reads are not perfect and I would never claim that they are but when I get the “ew, scum” feeling this strongly from interacting with someone and from their play around me I am above average on being right and it’s how I’ve caught almost every good scumplayer I’ve ever caught

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I still think it’s comus/gimli/kawaii exactly, if any of those are wrong then yeah probably it’s klick

Basically hoping that either scum have to kill enchant then sky and you get to lead on scum the next 2 days and they can figure it out between them in endgame

Or they kill you tonight and hopefully sky gets a guilty *shrug*

I feel strongest on comus scum and if I’m wrong I would expect more that either gimli or (most likely) kawaii is town

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Maybe someone good takes the kawaii slot and massively towns it up which would prob make it klick yea

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I think that it’s prob defending a buddy but I also see a lot of scum upside to defending kawaii if he’s town — if he flips anyway you were on the right side of it going into elo and you get to push the slot you targeted the day before anyway while being consistent (me in this case)

If you get the lim you pushed instead of kawaii then you look worse but if you get flipped next kawaii (if town) looks like a buddy and you can try to win in 5p

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This is exactly why I would lim comus and gimli first

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Klick has had moments where he’s felt good and moments where he’s felt real bad and idk what to think so I’m putting kawaii in because I think the claim thing makes him more likely scum than town in a vacuum and klick it’s too easy for me to see it either way

I’m basically not convinced on either by claim but mechanically I would put kawaii as the better option

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and klick being like, locktowning gimli, after gimli literally just rolled him, feels meh

This is probably the most worrying thing about klick to me yeah

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I think that it’s prob defending a buddy but I also see a lot of scum upside to defending kawaii if he’s town — if he flips anyway you were on the right side of it going into elo and you get to push the slot you targeted the day before anyway while being consistent (me in this case)

If you get the lim you pushed instead of kawaii then you look worse but if you get flipped next kawaii (if town) looks like a buddy and you can try to win in 5p

I mean ideally yeah but what if you get neither and after pushing against kawaii you're super limited in what lims scum can push? Idk

I guess maybe that could explain why gimli was pushing so hard that the setup without comus could have scum!skygazer, and then comus made the claim?

No offence to anyone here but in what world do you get neither given the pl and level of investment in the game across the board? Like who is gonna push back hard against either one of the options, sky, enchant, gera? Not happening

And in that worst case you probably see gera getting flipped and then you can take your pick of me/kawaii the next day

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Klick also made a good point that only two town have to be wrong here and there’s so many conflicts (and have been all game) that I think scum have felt safe to just openwolf and go for the big win bc they know the chance of town coordinating sufficiently to threaten their game is v slim

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I should probably unclear ausuka at this point

@klick have you metadived ausuka's scumgames?

I'm not sure about Ausuka. My feel is she's still town, but being swayed by menalque's charisma?

Like look at this ausuka, lol

Charisma and theatre are p much the exact same skill set (acting) and yet my theatre is so bad according to comus that I was easily catchable from it while it’s simultaneously good enough that I’ve managed to bring you round from fairly sceptical on me to my side

There’s just no internal consistency to the thoughts because there are none, it’s all just words to try and look good and bluster for position

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Also changing your claim after massclaim should just always be policy limmed but people don’t wanna hear that :shrug:

But if you allow it then it allows scum to do the above

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I think comus’ writing style is too individual to be from an AI

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Well I’m gonna go make banana bread

I’ll try to check back if there’s anything else you guys wanna ask me but I’m ready to be hammered personally (obviously it would be better to fire drill and hammer comus here)

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Actually why not this way it shows up in my iso and the VC and I don’t think kawaii is happening

VOTE: comus

Comus necandae est!

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Is there anything we’re particularly waiting on or does someone wanna hammer me? I’m not doing it myself obviously in case there’s a last minute change of heart and we flip I guess kawaii instead

But if that’s not happening then someone should pull their thumb out and do it

I haven't hammered because I'm still trying to figure things out and it might impact whether I think you're a good flip or not
You can be defeatist about it or you can keep trying to find different angles to solve further or help others solve

My dude

Did you actually read like the last page and a half?

I’m not being defeatist I’m being realistic because I’ve played potentially over a hundred games or more and I pretty much know how this ends

I have attempted to leave my testament in as persuasive and clear a way as possible in the hopes that (1) we might pivot into actual scum or that at least (2) it can guide town to whatever else

However we’re really just dancing around now

There’s no rush to hammer, if you wanna go to deadline that’s fine, I’m just making it clear that fmpov there is nothing to particularly wait on either and that if thread had nothing else to really do hammering would be fine

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and klick being like, locktowning gimli, after gimli literally just rolled him, feels meh

There's a lack of depth to this thought that feels insincere
Like I have /reasons/ why I think Gimli is likely town here, I've expressed them and gotten little to no engagement

Maybe I missed this but I think you never responded to me on the topic?

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like i think mena's read here is fairly blatantly that now he thinks gimli's play wasn't towny (which i agree with largely, my doubts on gimli mostly come from today? although my read on him has been pretty fuzzy ever since elsa faked that inno result) rather than he didn't think that back then

gimli trying to spin it to get back on mena and trying to squirm out of townreading me (which like, not having me as locktown is kind of fair, but then why did he ever have me as locktown in the first place? what changes there?) just feels gross

i think it's pretty likely gimli + kawaii + 3

mena's read on both me and comus were that we were both his strongest townreads

the shift came with no progression whatsoever, and what he is now saying, that I was NEVER towny basically, doesn't fit well with his own leans on d1. if I was never towny, how was I a townread?

Yea good question, basically I thought you were a newb who probably had no scumgame so I cleared you on post count lol

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Like i was pretty much reading you and comus using heuristics because I’m lazy and was repping into the game and then later on reconsidered

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Most newb players struggle to hyper post as scum *shrug*

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Actually works surprisingly well a lot of them time tho

Bro I’ve been on this site for like 4 years and I don’t have any memory of seeing you before, plus you kept memeing and going on about how you wanted people to solve the game

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And I don’t say that to cause offence but I just figured that if you were experienced I’d already know you

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Yea that was shorthand for clearing on postcount bc I had to explain it and knew nobody would take it seriously if I said it was for postcount

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It’s the same thing as if I get to a solid scumread by pov where I’m reading enough people as strongly town — I’ll just pick whatever to justify the read bc people expect justifications to some degree

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Think about it. Why out of all players, YOU was "checked"?

Did Elsa even express scumread on you?

Cuz at least I know with a clear Gimli will be helpful. You and Kokichi are just riding on me supposedly fake claiming and trying to kill me with no other game solve.

I've said this in the past but cop checks are meant for people your unsure of, not people obviously scummy.

why were you unsure of gimli tho? I feel like gimli is fairly clearly town (need to check based on events) but pretty much everyone bar ausuka has him as town -- it would've been much more helpful if even instead of targeting an obvscum player, you'd targeted someone who was unclear to thread in general

I mean, I don't think you're cop, but even within the claim choosing gimli seems like a v poor choice that I struggle to understand

you even gave elsa shit for 'checking' me here

Yea you were being broadly two read and I don’t think that checks are normally good on people who are widely tr, I think they’re much better on ambiguous slots who are null to most people.

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I gotta run again I need to finish lunch and laundry but I’ll maybe be around in a lil bit again

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Broadly town read*

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I’m not being defeatist I’m being realistic because I’ve played potentially over a hundred games or more and I pretty much know how this ends

I have also played probably around that many games. You don't know how this ends. You're generalising this game when this set of players can very potentially decide to do things differently than the way you've seen things play out in other games.

If I see a guy dunk a basketball 99 out of 100 times and he goes to dunk it again I would say “I know how this ends” however much I know that in a literal sense I don’t because the probabilistic standard for that type of language has been passed

Don’t play semantics with me you know what I meant

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I just want to make clear that I still absolutely don’t believe comus’ claim and remain absolutely stringent in my policy that any claim modified after massclaim has finished should not be believed

Comus necandae est

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i think menal's scum equity went up since kawaii is prob town too but i rlly wanna elim enchant here

comus claim has me second guessing a lil bit but eh

Why is kawaii now prob town? I’m p tired bc I just got home from bjj but I don’t remember you having that take before necessarily?

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I mean I’d flip there rather than flipping me, but he’s not high on who I want to flip?

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I can do gera actually fuck it

VOTE: gera

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I’m sort of more doubtful about you and klick than I was, still think comus is scum who needs to die but the more doubt I have on the two of you the more gera moves into the “guess he could be and I’m wrong” pool

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Mostly I don’t really see the advantage that scum you has in drawing this out unless you just think I go through tomorrow by default which I guess could be done but

Idk I semi-want to self hammer to avoid that if this is wrong but also I know that’s incredibly selfish and I’m not sure my flip would resolve the information environment to an extent that town wins resulting from it

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You are slightly beating me to the punch on some of these thoughts

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I still think kawaii would be better than gera but obviously fmpov anyone is higher odds of being scum than me and I think we don’t have the votes for kawaii with gimli and klick being resistant to it

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I was a VT

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Kind of a scummy hammer from sky? Idk, I don’t believe comus but that gives me pause, idk where sky shifted to preferring me > gera

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I think rereading today knowing I’m town should be very telling for elo tomorrow and that would be my number 1 recommendation vs trying to read what people say tomorrow

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Klick has been very resistant to gera flip but I think you have a massive unwarranted blind spot re:comus and you need to re-examine there

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Sky going quiet here is a bad look too

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it didnt give me the preview so i missed the two extra gera votes

L

*insert X to doubt meme here*

Worried about thread lock

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Also if comus says like, literally anything tomorrow, just quote all the posts back at him where he was certain I was scum and tell him to shut up and sheep ausuka

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Is that a thing? Does that happen??

Incredibly rarely

Like rarely enough that I wouldn’t bet the game on it lol

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ngl thats hilarious

if menal is actually vt sorry for losing the game yall

I would just troll if scum not try to help for tomorrow

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Ftr if it is gera/sky/klick then klick will play protown the rest of the game bc he’s meant to win in 3p

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ty implo for modding, gg wp all

ausuka if nobody else does it then I'm gonna write up a DC nom when I have a bit of spare time, you are terrifying as scum