Mini Normal 2303 [Postgame!!!!]

[ItalianoVD]

What’s up my peeps. First game back outside of TM.

Well I am very happy too.

VOTE: iamveryhappy

[ItalianoVD]

What’s up Ausuka and T3.

[ItalianoVD]

Also what’s up Fire. If memory serves me right I think we played a game together right?

[ItalianoVD]

I think I remember Cook as well. Sorry everyone else not too sure of.

[ItalianoVD]

fire can be red

And blue.

[ItalianoVD]

What’s up my peeps. First game back outside of TM.

Well I am very happy too.

VOTE: iamveryhappy

Yeah whatchu wanna talk about?
good having a happy person other than me
wanna talk about it?

[ItalianoVD]

Wow messed that up.

[ItalianoVD]

What’s up my peeps. First game back outside of TM.

Well I am very happy too.

VOTE: iamveryhappy

good having a happy person other than me
wanna talk about it?

Yeah whatchu wanna talk about?

[ItalianoVD]

Did you know fire can be invisible?

Being in the Interregnum Multiverse I can confirm this.

[ItalianoVD]

What’s up my peeps. First game back outside of TM.

Well I am very happy too.

VOTE: iamveryhappy

good having a happy person other than me
wanna talk about it?

Yeah whatchu wanna talk about?

how you are happy

Whew, being alive, being in love, having family, just to name a few. You?

[ItalianoVD]

I like vanilla ice cream. buttt I gotta say rocky road is better.

[ItalianoVD]

Ahh alter ego. I have a few.

[ItalianoVD]

ethanol fires are quite invisible too

Not to mention burn at 365 degress celsius

[ItalianoVD]

Oh wait, no. Kindle is my main choice of communication

I used to play on my kindle paperwhite

we need you to weigh in on the ongoing fire discussion

Yes.

VOTE: T3

[ItalianoVD]

Fire (the individual) is giving me town vibes

Really? Already

[ItalianoVD]

yes
I am greener than the grass in my lawn

I'm greener than money.

[ItalianoVD]

Also what’s up Fire. If memory serves me right I think we played a game together right?

chromavalon, very briefly

Ohh yeah that's right. I think we were both town iirc. Hopefully it's true for this game as well.

[ItalianoVD]

not that having silly conversations about unrelated things is bad. Actually we should do more of that. Much better than people getting super angry over a forum game lol

So true.

[ItalianoVD]

oh yeah no I'd already thought that but there didn't seem to be all that much gameplay discussion except for the

Hu Tao

thing I think

Speaking of which @Ausuka: Was that a serious vote?

[ItalianoVD]

Fire (the individual) is giving me town vibes

Really? Already

yes

Well dang I want town vibes.

[ItalianoVD]

oh yeah no I'd already thought that but there didn't seem to be all that much gameplay discussion except for the

Hu Tao

thing I think

Speaking of which @Ausuka: Was that a serious vote?

To the extent any vote on page 2 is serious, yeah

Gotcha. Way too early to ask for elaboration so we'll let it marinate for a little bit.

[ItalianoVD]

Fire (the individual) is giving me town vibes

Really? Already

yes

Well dang I want town vibes.

maybe for a candy bar

Okay. Good now.

[ItalianoVD]

I do not like chocolate and am allergic to peanut butter!

Wait. What's a candy bar without chocolate?

[ItalianoVD]

hu tao has posted a total of one word

i feel like the vote is kinda self explanatory

one might say it is not elaboratable

Eh yeah. One could also say that the reason for the vote is based off of elaborate vibes.

[ItalianoVD]

I don't have any issue elaborating but it's probably the expected answer - I think while it's also playstyle dependent, scum are more likely to make that kind of minimalist entrance / feel less comfortable engaging at the start.

Cool. I was serious about letting it marinate, but thank you.

[ItalianoVD]

So I was gonna talk about 83 but I didn't think it was serious.

[ItalianoVD]

Oh 85 explains it.

[ItalianoVD]

I really dislike post 98 here
"I want town vibes"
like you gotta earn them yourself
also seems like lazy scum

Heck yeah I want town vibes and guess I gotta do better because Fire got them for almost nothing.

[ItalianoVD]

Invisibility doesn't even like chocolate and is allergic to peanuts / pb so my candy bar efforts were doa

[ItalianoVD]

you literally asked for a candy bar for town vibes?
scum would gain a precious day of survival for doing this, given that we don't know the setups, you may be a doc, a cop, a jk, whatever, it would also kinda stop you from using an investigative role on them, or would encourage you to use a protective role on them.

We were vibing and just flowing with the thread.

[ItalianoVD]

what would scum gain from requesting town vibes? Do you think I would just hand them over

Exactly. This.

[ItalianoVD]

I don't like the use of the word "we" here

We as in the entire game. Not just me and Invisibility.

[ItalianoVD]

But I see you're serious so let's go.

[ItalianoVD]

i’m confused why there isn’t much discussion about my wagon when four people are on it

I wasn't gonna say anything yet because it's really not much to say for an RVS wagon early. Obviously I wouldn't want it to get pushed through if you're town, but I think early on having some type of wagon movement/development is good.

[ItalianoVD]

I think wagons are protown and the concern feels overblown to me

There's nothing protown about rushing a wagon to E-2 within like 4 hours of the game starting.

I think early wagons are fine, I think e-2 is really not that big of a deal, and I don't think the wagon is 'rushed' - I like the Cook vote

This

[ItalianoVD]

There's nothing protown about rushing a wagon to E-2 within like 4 hours of the game starting.

It does get things moving at least.

[ItalianoVD]

Either way this one is suspect of the wagon getting so far so fast on so little reasoning to vote.

You must not have played a lot of games because it's a pretty common thing.

[ItalianoVD]

Either way this one is suspect of the wagon getting so far so fast on so little reasoning to vote.

Either way this one is suspect of the wagon getting so far so fast on so little reasoning to vote.

agree with you there. i don't know if it's even an issue, but regardless, i think it's respectable to be offended at a wagon on me when the game's barely started

doubt a townie would have lolhammered anyhow

yah

Either way this one is suspect of the wagon getting so far so fast on so little reasoning to vote.

this is reasonable!

Either way this one is suspect of the wagon getting so far so fast on so little reasoning to vote.

agree with you there. i don't know if it's even an issue, but regardless, i think it's respectable to be offended at a wagon on me when the game's barely started

Yes.

Hmm. Somebody here is scum.

[ItalianoVD]

hu you have posted precious little this game! i get it though, we're all busy

Hello. Looks like you were almost.. Cooked earlier

[ItalianoVD]

Going back to 215. I like HighPrincess and Invisibility for town. It's just a certain townie tone to their posts, especially Invisibility. This leaves Cook and Asri.

For now VOTE: Asri

It's really late here though. I'll have to go more in depth tomorrow. Ciao peeps.

[ItalianoVD]

Going back to 215. I like HighPrincess and Invisibility for town. It's just a certain townie tone to their posts, especially Invisibility. This leaves Cook and Asri.

For now VOTE: Asri

It's really late here though. I'll have to go more in depth tomorrow. Ciao peeps.

Leaves cook and Asri for what? Your delusions? You sound fake and aligned here, this one is placing you in the 'not taking serious pile.'

This one isn't convinced you actually formed a townread on Erynis.

Furthermore, what you seem to be doing is hunting mis-elims, not scum.

So you must've not read 215...

Spoiler:

Either way this one is suspect of the wagon getting so far so fast on so little reasoning to vote.

Either way this one is suspect of the wagon getting so far so fast on so little reasoning to vote.

agree with you there. i don't know if it's even an issue, but regardless, i think it's respectable to be offended at a wagon on me when the game's barely started

doubt a townie would have lolhammered anyhow

yah

Either way this one is suspect of the wagon getting so far so fast on so little reasoning to vote.

this is reasonable!

Either way this one is suspect of the wagon getting so far so fast on so little reasoning to vote.

agree with you there. i don't know if it's even an issue, but regardless, i think it's respectable to be offended at a wagon on me when the game's barely started

Yes.

Hmm. Somebody here is scum.

I thought this little combo of agreement between you four looked suspicious as all get up. It feels like a pocketing attempt from someone. Invis is town for me, Princess as well, a little less so, but still there. I don't know if I feel like Cook would really be that distraught of having five votes on her early in game. I feel like she's played the game enough to have gone through it more than once. I don't really know what to feel about her right now. I think the concern of the wagon is overblown and I believe a scum or two may have jumped on that sentiment. You actually fit that bill as you were and have been the one on the outside looking in. Kind of poking at the attackers and agreeing with the offended. Judging from your response seems like I might be onto something.

VOTE: Asri

[ItalianoVD]

And you're also sheeping Ausuka posts that can be NAI and are generic throwaway statememts.

I actually posted 150 before Ausuka said anything about it. It's a pretty common thought process. I agree, they are null comments so why are you making it a thing, nobody else was.

[ItalianoVD]

It's also a lot easier to point the finger at people when you were off the wagon.

[ItalianoVD]

my comment was about finding it strange that italiano seemed to be making a show of not asking ausuka to elaborate, when it seemed to me that it would be obvious what she was thinking

Yeah which is why I said it'd be okay to let it marinate more because I knew the reason would be exactly what she said. I did ask her if the vote was real.

[ItalianoVD]

Either way this one is suspect of the wagon getting so far so fast on so little reasoning to vote.

agree with you there.

i don't know if it's even an issue

, but regardless, i think it's respectable to be offended at a wagon on me when the game's barely started

So Cook, you say you don't know if it's even an issue. What are you talking about here because isn't what this is all about?

[ItalianoVD]

From Hu Tao...

Spoiler:

Either way this one is suspect of the wagon getting so far so fast on so little reasoning to vote.

Either way this one is suspect of the wagon getting so far so fast on so little reasoning to vote.

agree with you there. i don't know if it's even an issue, but regardless, i think it's respectable to be offended at a wagon on me when the game's barely started

doubt a townie would have lolhammered anyhow

yah

Either way this one is suspect of the wagon getting so far so fast on so little reasoning to vote.

this is reasonable!

Either way this one is suspect of the wagon getting so far so fast on so little reasoning to vote.

agree with you there. i don't know if it's even an issue, but regardless, i think it's respectable to be offended at a wagon on me when the game's barely started

Yes.

Hmm. Somebody here is scum.

Who and why?

I answer it here

[ItalianoVD]

Ugh stupid phone. I answer it in 271.

[ItalianoVD]

Catching up

[ItalianoVD]

UNVOTE: Asri

I wanted to get some pressure there to see the response and to be honest it feels townie. I have a hard time understanding the wording but I get the gist of what they're trying to say

[ItalianoVD]

Invis is my mason buddy. Stop playing Invis.

[ItalianoVD]

Lol, nah me and Invis are not Masons, I repeat me and Invis are NOT masons. I do townread them though. Sometimes in these games with as much deception and uncertainty that there is you have to choose to trust people. I’m choosing my to trust Invis. Take from that what you will.

[ItalianoVD]

*I’m choosing to trust Invis.

[ItalianoVD]

VOTE: ItalianoVD

If you're just a vanilla then say so.

Don’t like this rolefish.

[ItalianoVD]

Invisibility understood it well enough. This one simply said your townreads felt fake, you felt like you were pushing for mis-eliminations and that nothing you said in that one 'associative' post made any sense.

Meaning it didn't feel like a town case, bluntly.

This one likes voting ItalianoVD for now independently.

A team like Ausuka/ItalianoVD/Iamveryhappy would be clumsy but there are patterns.This one is not sure where to slot Erynis in. A lot of silent voices so overall this one has said their say.

I read tonally so if I’m townreading people it’s because they’ve posted something that to me sounds like it comes from town. Sometimes I don’t always give details as to why I townread.

[ItalianoVD]

Invis is my mason buddy. Stop playing Invis.

Is this a real claim? Why would you even claim?

No, not a real claim.

[ItalianoVD]

Sorry my peeps. I know I've been gone for a while. Work has been hectic and I just don't have the mental to really go into this the way I want. I will be back shortly but I need some rest and perhaps will be better in a few hours.

[ItalianoVD]

Okay let me catchup. I have like 30 minutes, so I’ll do one post and then when I’m off work, I get into it with details and whatnot.

[ItalianoVD]

Early on I hadn’t really fully sunken my teeth into the game yet, so Asri was in fact correct when they said I was just throwing out townreads. I did that based off of what I thought could be the most likely at the time with the RVS stage and Cook.

Invis actually did/does feel like town to me and the mason claim was just an over exaggerated way of me saying that I really townread them.

Early on when everyone was fluffposting Invis interacted with me in a way that I thought was loose and fun which I don’t think scum would/could be able to maintain.

In contrast iamveryhappy ironically didn’t seem very happy. Even my first interaction with him felt kinda awkward. The focus on what was considered RVS fluff posting between me and Invis is probably nai, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it was done with a scum mindset.

Even Invis voting me after the claim makes me really think they are town because it’s most likely what I would’ve done if that was done to me.

Why did I fake claim in the first place I’ve seen people ask. Honestly there was nothing going on in my head at the time lol it was literally something I just did. If anyone tries to ask me to get deeper with it, sorry but you won’t get anything there.

420 makes me think happy and Cook could be partners or happy is town

I think for now I’m voting VOTE: Cook.

I could also vote for iamveryhappy and probably Princess, but I just don’t think scum would be that clumsy around a wagon the way Princess was. I could be wrong about that though.

I probably missed some things, so if y’all wanna tag me in posts you want me to answer or comment on, I can answer them later.

[ItalianoVD]

I still don't like this defense
Parked for now.
I'm forced to be happy, as I told you in our first interaction
help me

So you were you serious or are you still playing? Like I can't tell if you are playing a character here or you for real.

I don't think IVD's strong townread of Invisibility makes a lot of sense tbh. I'm more inclined to believe this is an informed read rather than one developed naturally. And the mason thing just feels like a buddying attempt when I look through the lens of scum!IVD

Still planning on iso'ing this today to get a better idea of where I stand

Well I'm pretty good at townreading players and I trust in it a heck of a lot more than my scumreading ability. It helps me solve games more than scumreading people ever could. I actually get asked in every game I play why I so easily townread slots. Experience will do that, what else can I say?

Early on when everyone was fluffposting Invis interacted with me in a way that I thought was loose and fun which I don’t think scum would/could be able to maintain.

have I maintained this

If you're asking if you've continued to feel towny then yes, you have.

I could also vote for iamveryhappy and probably Princess, but I just don’t think scum would be that clumsy around a wagon the way Princess was. I could be wrong about that though.

can you elaborate on this

I think they could be partners based off of 419 and 420. It's a weird interaction for me and I'm wondering why Cook would say it the way she did. "Scum or Town Pr?" It's kinda specifically suspicous. Then happy's response just seems disjointed. I read it multiple times and sounds like what should be in a scum PT.

gonna be honest i'm liking iamveryhappy less and less as the day goes on

Oh lol. This is interesting.

420 makes me think happy and Cook could be partners or happy is town

I think for now I’m voting VOTE: Cook.

Can you elaborate on your read on Cook? I could maybe get how that post could make you think cook and happy could be partners, although I'd like elaboration on that too, but how does it make Cook scum independently of happy?

Actually no, not independently. As I told Fire, after reading those two posts again they continue to sound weird. Cook for the early wagon stuff on top of that post.

i'm still not totally convinced on italiano, but the claim walkback is a face-saver in my book

really hate this post
like
the u-turn is really the thing that makes it worse
"I did it to show how much invis is town or smth"
why can't you just do it the normal way and NOT claim mason in the first place

I'm not normal. I'm an unorthodox type of player, but there is always a method to my madness.

[ItalianoVD]

I think they could be partners based off of 419 and 420. It's a weird interaction for me and I'm wondering why Cook would say it the way she did. "Scum or Town Pr?" It's kinda specifically suspicous. Then happy's response just seems disjointed. I read it multiple times and sounds like what should be in a scum PT.

"someone who wants to not die"

that's what scum or town pr is for me

I get it and it does make sense but saying it the way you did and where you did in the context of this game made me frown. I won’t not believe your answer, but I’ll have to see what happens as the game progresses.

[ItalianoVD]

wat is italiano doing
if that slot is scum I'm basically spewed town

I’m trying to play this game. What are you doing?

[ItalianoVD]

Re: 585 I always get amused/frustrated when people either meta me or ISO me and come out with a wrong read. I was gonna respond to the post line by line, but I chose not to because sarcasm and arrogance is a terrible trait, but it’s the only way I would’ve probably responded to it.

There was a lot of “I agree with this” “I like this” but in the end you voted me. Like you said you were gonna ISO me because people were asking you what you thought of me and it felt like the ISO was done to prove your scumbias instead of trying to see what the situation actually was.

[ItalianoVD]

Well I'm pretty good at townreading players and I trust in it a heck of a lot more than my scumreading ability. It helps me solve games more than scumreading people ever could. I actually get asked in every game I play why I so easily townread slots. Experience will do that, what else can I say?

This makes sense. I guess I'm confused what made you trust Invis so much. Was it really that you two had a fun moment together early in the game? To me that just doesn't seem like a natural reason to townlock someone

The “why did Firebringer get a townread” was nonserious and Invis’ response was also nonserious (candybargate, I like that btw lol), so I was like well dang this person gets it. And as I previously mentioned I haven’t seen scum be able to fake that very well. On the flip side had Invis been scum, I think my initial playful “Fire is town” would’ve been handled a bit differently and had I saw that I would’ve handled it differently.

[ItalianoVD]

Oh one thing I did wanna respond to was the “happy because he rolled scum” that Black and I think happy both said. Uhh nah, you guys don’t me but those that do know I do not like playing for the bad guys, so I would’ve definitely not been happy here and doubt I could’ve faked it that well.

[ItalianoVD]

I’m liking the posts by Asri on pg 26, especially I like the callout on Cook and Black. I know you don’t care but it’s pushing you up towards Invis.

[ItalianoVD]

Actually this one might have misread the question?? It's almost 3am. Not an OMGUS either way. Bro's just plain lookin' weird.

This one was referencing his sus on it. If it wants to say why the cook sus from him is looking weird?

The only thing this one would really wanna bring up wrt Italiano's read is the seeming gap in his progression, as he states multiple times he townreads me before saying he might be willing to vote me in 567. Just wondering what's up with that.

My townread there was more of a “nah scum wouldn’t do that” townread, meaning I don’t think scum would be that blatantly clumsy as to jump off of an RVS wagon and start pushing the people that were on the same wagon they were just on. Doesn’t really make sense as it’s so obvious.

It’s kind of how a less experienced wolf player would play. I just always assume everyone here is more experienced than that, but I suppose not and sometimes the most obvious answer is the right answer. That is why the suspicion and the vote is there.

[ItalianoVD]

Even 213 and 214 is me trying to get a feel for Princess because I strongly disagreed with 159 and 178, but I just chalked it up as townie.

[ItalianoVD]

Oh one thing I did wanna respond to was the “happy because he rolled scum” that Black and I think happy both said. Uhh nah, you guys don’t me but those that do know I do not like playing for the bad guys, so I would’ve definitely not been happy here and doubt I could’ve faked it that well.

Yeah that was a joke, I don't really think it was scummy lol. But I do find this interesting. I MUCH prefer to roll scum. It feels way easier to me

I have a much better time and success as town as I mentioned with my townread rate than I do at manipulating. And I hate it lol.

[ItalianoVD]

I think I have an easier time trusting people, or I should say choosing to trust people than a lot of players because I don’t really care if I’m played by a scum that I townread the whole game. It’s kudos to them imo.

[ItalianoVD]

It’s a competition, but don’t wanna derail so did you ever say what you thought of happy? I may have missed it.

[ItalianoVD]

Dude, y'all been busy.

[ItalianoVD]

Let me catchup properly, but I've been skimming and we are not policy limming Asri! Chill with that.

[ItalianoVD]

Sorry peeps, I'm not really mentally checked in right now. I need to chill for a moment. I called myself catching up and just got overwhelmed, work has been really taking a lot out of me so thinking and analyzing is tough right now. Try not to read too much into this because it is nothing to read into.

[ItalianoVD]

What's up peeps? I'm back and refreshed. This work week was ridiculously draining, but I'll be free for the next couple of days so ready to get back into this. This is my preliminary thoughts. I’ll go into more detail later.

[ItalianoVD]

Re: pg 51 discussion: I think townreading players is way more effective than scumreading them. Or I should say that sorting to townread players is better than sorting to scumread them. Scumreading gets you tunnelled and causes you to lack focus for later in the game when it's neededause now the townie thinks they're something and that the town needs to follow them and that there's no way anybody else's opinion matter. I know this from personal experience unfortunately. There have been so many times I thought I "cracked the code" for some player using meta, or traditional scum tactic hunting just to find out they were town and had a bad day or was bored and maybe just wanted to change up how they play.

Scum don't like people getting townread and want less cohesion in a town. I think the more cohesive we can be the better for us.

[ItalianoVD]

With all that said I think most people agree that Cook is scummy. I don’t remember who specifically said it but I disagree that Cook should NOT be today’s elimination. It will give us more information than limming a lurker slot or the awful policy lim I think scum are trying to push through on Asri.

[ItalianoVD]

Princess has checked out. Don't really think it's alignment indicative, but if scum it likes the gamestate either for bus or miselim purposes. I haven’t really seen anything that has made me change my perception of the slot. Probable lim slot.
 
I still don't feel good about happy. I stated he could be potential partners with Cook which for me I think could still be a reality, but it'd be a clunky type of partnership given their interaction which gives me a bit of pause with that idea. He is null to nullscum for me.
 
Ausuka is interesting because last game I played with her (Team Mafia), she thought I was scum and pushed me a lot day one for a misunderstanding in playstyle and I guess my play was scummy. It’s funny though because when I’m town I don’t ever think anything I do is scummy lol because I know I’m not scum so when they were saying I was scummy in that game I was certain scum was pushing it and I was right.

Having only one game from her I cannot genuinely read her with meta, which I don’t like to do anyway, but it can at least give you somewhat of an idea of what the player may do. At times this game she has felt scummy, but she felt scummy last game and I was wrong about her. There are better slots to resolve for me than Ausuka and she’s probably a Day 3/4 problem.

[ItalianoVD]

When it comes to Fire something that made me slightly raise my eyebrows was earlier on in the game when Fire defended Cook and called out Ausuka in 684 right after Black voted Ausuka. I don’t know, the timing just felt kinda convenient and it felt like he was positioning himself on one side of the argument especially after agreeing with Black’s suspicion of Ausuka.

I also think his pushes on me if you wanna call them that are kinda weak and not real. I don’t think he actually believes what he’s pushing me for at least that’s how it feels.
 
SS, Hu, and T3 are honestly the best spots for lurky scum or town. Every game there are these slots that generally don't do a lot and there can be scum there and sometimes there is but it more than likely ends up being town so I don't really wanna deal with these slots today.

[ItalianoVD]

When it comes to Fire something that made me slightly raise my eyebrows

Does fire's Hu Tao push feel natural?

I felt his Princess push felt more natural. Didn’t he townread Hu Tao?

[ItalianoVD]

Welcome to the game Flower, unfortunately you’re replacing into a fairly suspicious slot. At least for me, Princess was on the list of possible lims for today.

[ItalianoVD]

(i'd rather not die right away. this is my first game back. that would've been a waste of ten days of my time)

Does this count as AtE?

I’d say it’s NAI.

[ItalianoVD]

Spoiler: 1000-1100

I fell asleep last night.

Ok, so I decided to iso Black since I thought I would gain a lot from their interactions w/ Ausuka and Asri? It doesn't seem like I really have any support wrt iamveryhappy so I don't think there's a point reading again. I also chose Black because they're one of the few players that had an opinion of me this game and I just wanted to see if I could find enough context behind it.

92: RVS
207: I find myself nodding at a lot of these comments. I wonder if they could be interpreted as Black buddying (am I even using this word right?) HPE since it starts with reasons for suspicion and ends with a slight townread.
208 221 So this is where Black townreads Ausuka and the table is set for trouble to begin. I don't think it's unreasonable for Black to townread here, but I've talked previously about how disagreeing doesn't necessary mean opposing teams and so I don't know if agreeing makes someone automatically towny. I will say that Black said she agreed with Ausuka's thought process which I think is very town of Black.
264 Here Black responds to Asri doubting her read on Ausuka.
298 I think I missed this post when it was originally made. I really love this post because Black is really aware of the change from Asri's perspective and is confused by it. I personally wouldn't have brought it up as town and it's at this point in my reading that I know that Black is a really good player who from my perspective is leaning town.
478 This post in addition to 495 I interpret as town leaning because at the time there was no significant reason for Black to change their view of Ausuka. It could be I'm missing something because of how I'm only reading Black's posts. I think it's Black's genuine attempts to create a clear picture of what's going on.
585 So I asked for Black to read Italiano and Black returns with a scumread. It's interesting because basically right after this there's a lot of heat on Black and right before it there's a third vote on Cook? I don't think it's a distraction post or anything though because there were other spots in the game (like when Cook had 5 votes or something) where Black could have made any sort of move. In fact, they were very supportive of the wagon on Cook.
670 I really like how Black plays defense this game. I feel like if I were mafia I would be pushing harder on Italiano or Ausuka here but Black is very inquisitive and her interactions with Cook in later posts make a lot of sense to me. In particular, she comes across as kind of standoff-ish which tonally makes sense? I could just be so wrong with all of my reads here y'all.
750 I would have the same reaction as Black here to Asri's comments. I think if anything this game Black has been very coherent and explained their reasoning. She has been very consistent which makes the comment that Asri is seeing what they want to see exactly what town would say imo.
844 Does it make sense for Black to not have a read on Cook after interacting with Cook a few posts earlier? I think I buy that because at the time they mentioned how Cook was a null read and I don't think anything really happened besides some clarification of things between the two?
922 I don't get this post for two reasons. One, because what would the scumteam be then if it's both Cook and Asri? Doesn't Black have enough scumreads? Two, because Black mentioned how they thought Asri was probably annoying town earlier in the day (791) and there was no pressure on Asri at the time?
789 Lol'ed

Adding it all up, I really do think Black is town. There are multiple factors that I talked about but the sense I get from her posts is just that at the end of the day she has been trying to reduce the amount of chaos going on and has interacted in reasonable ways with too many people. Because of my opinion from this, I kind of think Asri is kind of town too?

Of course the first piece of content is a ISO wallpost. Pain

208/221 - Both of these posts are pretty scummy to me. 208's the kind of thing where I don't get how it'd lead to a mindmeld tr when it seems pretty NAI and 221's filler as hell
264 - Yeah that makes 208 look better
298 - Solid post
750 - Asri's literally voting for Black there lmao

I will say that Black said she agreed with Ausuka's thought process which I think is very town of Black.

Why is that very town of black?

Also @black, i forgot to bring this up earlier but why would this game have 2 scum?

It was the most "town" reasoning for townreading someone at that point in the game that I can think of. So it leans town to me. I'm not sure if that makes sense. My main distinction was that Black says she agrees with your thought process, which is different than agreeing with your conclusion. I think that's exactly what I was sort of trying to do in my entire post which is look to see if Black's actions make sense from a thought process standpoint.

Solid post

Like if you are this unsure about Ausuka why have you not engaged with them at all?

Like if you are this unsure about Ausuka why have you not engaged with them at all?

i don't always find engagement to be the easiest way to sort people

with ausuka

i hit submit early

but i was gonna say that i thought it would be more useful to wait and watch and see how things developed

i have found lately that with people i know well (not all i guess, but some) im actually generally better at reading them if i am more disconnected from them, like when reading from spec or something

I guess that's fair. I think I'm just not a fan of how you two have interacted with each other, which really is a lack of interaction. You are both in each other's "sus" category yet it doesn't seem like either of you are that interested in solving the other

I'll townbin Black for this, especially if Arsi flips green. Black's normally got that pretty laid back neutral vibe and if she's scum here then votes wise I don't see the point of setting this up as scum when there's like 2-3 other people with actual wagons going

Spoiler: 1100-1200

1101 - Wait did Italiano already claim? Can someone post the claims we already had? Anyways ok post but having read absolutely nothing from Italiano the section on him feels very
1117 - I haven't read any of happys posts this game but +town
1154 - Based also I feel called out
1157 - Huh?

Anyways I'm just gonna sheep Black here, pretty sure she's town and her reads are usually on point

VOTE: Cook

-Nameless

Hmm. This is interesting. If Cook is scum, it could clear this spot fmpov.

[ItalianoVD]

flower what are your opinions on me, not just looking at post 1117
take a break but
you may answer me later but just get it answered
well it's definitey better than 2120 kek

null town, haven't seen anything really townie or scummy from you from what I've read. I don't like your 1284 and 1313 but I think you'd be aware enough as scum to not be blatantly PR hunting like this in thread

-Nameless

You think so? Been hearing a lot of meta talk re: happy. What he wouldn’t do, what he would etc. and frankly I think that’s exactly why we shouldn’t disregard him.

Also there has been multiple attempts at pr hunting this game. Not sure how I feel about it.

[ItalianoVD]

Oh bulletproof rolecop claim from Cook? That’s like the most mafia role you can claim.

I’m not good with mechanics so I’m not gonna try to figure out anything out. I don’t think the claim changes much for me because of the fact it is a very scum-oriented role, both of them actually.

[ItalianoVD]

*Figure anything out. Ugh.

[ItalianoVD]

oh you haven't read that far back probably, nameless, but

"defensive" is a bit of a weird read of that post

agree and

i think that maybe my wagon knows something about me

i felt like mafia might be informed of my existence because of how strong i am

What I don’t get and didn’t get about this claim when it was made was how would mafia know about you and target you in game. Even if mafia had a strongman how would they know to target exactly you?

[ItalianoVD]

Okay, so I agree that Cook can be resolved later so let’s not today.

UNVOTE: Cook

[ItalianoVD]

Ugh and I hate setup spec. I’ll be on later.

[ItalianoVD]

Actually

VOTE: iamveryhappy

[ItalianoVD]

I’ll still be on later.

[ItalianoVD]

Actually

VOTE: iamveryhappy

Another slot easily sorted along the line. You will gain little traction here.

Well I’m not voting T3 so I either go back on Cook or we vote happy.

[ItalianoVD]

Also how would they be sorted along the line?

[ItalianoVD]

Unfortunately we can't just ask vig to cook cook because she might be a mafia bp shrug

Umm vig can’t kill bulletproof regardless of alignment right so how does “we can’t ask vig to kill cook because she might be a mafia bp” make sense, unless you misspoke.

[ItalianoVD]

Also how would they be sorted along the line?

Iamveryhappy will become ridiculously easy to read as either alignment as the game progresses.

Maybe for people who have played with him, but not for me.

[ItalianoVD]

Alright. So who are we going for if it’s not Cook? Maybe I can compromise.

[ItalianoVD]

Unfortunately we can't just ask vig to cook cook because she might be a mafia bp shrug

Umm vig can’t kill bulletproof regardless of alignment right so how does “we can’t ask vig to kill cook because she might be a mafia bp” make sense, unless you misspoke.

Ausuka meant exactly that. Ausuka is operating from a town mentality, so only considers a world where the vig is hunting scum

No what I meant was if vig can’t kill bulletproof then what does being scum have to do with anything. So the way I read it and interpreted it was “the vig would work if the bp was town” which is what I get out of “we can’t ask vig to cook cook because she could be mafia” almost like it would make a difference if the target was town.

Am I making sense or no?

[ItalianoVD]

Also how would they be sorted along the line?

Iamveryhappy will become ridiculously easy to read as either alignment as the game progresses.

Maybe for people who have played with him, but not for me.

Happy has been readforming, gamecrafting, questioning.

You let T3 slide.

I’m not letting T3 slide there’s just nothing there.

[ItalianoVD]

This one has never played with happy but has played with T3, just so you know.

Lol so how do you know he’ll be sorted later? Anyway, if you show me why you feel it’s T3 in a couple sentences or something I’ll see if it makes sense and possibly compromise there. I’m at work and posting on phone so can’t really go back an iso at the moment.

[ItalianoVD]

And this makes T3 town?

Never said he was town but it’s nullest of nulls so if I’m choosing between happy or T3 I’ll pick happy. For me he’s had more to vote for imo but if you say there is no traction for happy then convince me on T3.

[ItalianoVD]

Unfortunately we can't just ask vig to cook cook because she might be a mafia bp shrug

Umm vig can’t kill bulletproof regardless of alignment right so how does “we can’t ask vig to kill cook because she might be a mafia bp” make sense, unless you misspoke.

If there's a vig cook is probably scum, so it would be nice and simple if they could just shoot her, but they can't because bulletproof.

I'm curious what you're getting at here. Like, is there some kind of scum motivation to phrasing things this way?

Nah, I’m just to understand what you’re saying. The way I read what you said was that there would be a difference in result if she “wasn’t” scum, but whatever I guess it doesn’t matter. I do understand that a vig probably confirms Cook as scum.

[ItalianoVD]

This is why I prefer dayplay over mechanics.

[ItalianoVD]

Okay, so I agree that Cook can be resolved later so let’s not today.

UNVOTE: Cook

So there were compelling arguments to let Cook be resolved later, which I understand, but scum want that extra day and the way Cook said (In paraphrasing) “just give me another day and I’ll show you” or something is just scummy. I’m going with my head here. I’ve been burned plenty of times by wonky mechanics and I’d just rather not.

VOTE: Cook

I’m staying here. If it gets me killed then so be it, I’ve always said I don’t need to be alive for town to win.

[ItalianoVD]

So are you and invisibility scum together or not? That's an important question at this point because if not this one will most likely need to start teamforming around invis at least.

If we were scum together what do you think my answer would even be lol. “Oh yeah we are scum you got us darn it, we might as well concede and tell you who our partner is” Don’t be silly.

[ItalianoVD]

Of course I can only be 100% sure of myself. Invis is pretty high up on the town scale, but if they’re scum, then hey they’ve played a great game so far and I don’t mind losing there.

[ItalianoVD]

sorry didn't realize how close it was to deadline, had an overwhelming weekend and haven't had energy to follow this

will try to be around more soon, some quick things for now

skimmed and all of the setup spec went over my head but if rolecop isn't very powerful as someone said then maybe it's real? being bulletproof actually matches up a lot with what i interpreted earlier as overly obvious softing so i kinda want to buy that

idk

don't really want to lim there still

t3 is kinda whatever to me, i did end up reading some of his recent town and scum games earlier and i think they are both pretty similarly low content and i didn't see a lot of difference. idk how to sort him but i think yeeting him here is kinda lazy and im not sure why he is the default place people are coalescing as opposed to like, hu tao, who i think has been a lot more scummy

i see asri just voted here so im down, his entry back into the thread was okay i guess but i don't really like his response to the cook claim (the bit where he first speculated it as a maf role and then backed off and said he hated setup spec when it felt like the wagon lost some traction, and some of the posts surrounding compromise options felt weird)

VOTE: italiano

Okay great you’re here. What have you seen from Hu Tao? You say “they’ve been a lot more scummy”

To me as I mentioned SS, T3, and Hu occupy the same space for me which is not enough to get a true read there and can be dealt with later.

[ItalianoVD]

Of course I can only be 100% sure of myself. Invis is pretty high up on the town scale, but if they’re scum, then hey they’ve played a great game so far and I don’t mind losing there.

it doesn't feel like you've even tried to sort invis at all since what was basically rvs vibes

where is the confidence coming from

the statement about "they've played a great game so far and I don't mind losing there" feels out of place for what seems like basically a vibe read

Yeah I said what I said and I meant what I said. If they are scum, I believe they have played like town to a point where I would not mind losing to them. Don’t see how that’s out of place.

[ItalianoVD]

I’m not gonna just scumread someone if I don’t.

[ItalianoVD]

what makes you so confident that he's town tho

there has to be more than vibes

My experience. And I’ve already said why and to just say it’s ‘RVS’ or ‘vibes’ is a gross misrep.

[ItalianoVD]

Haven’t really paid attention to you which is my fault, but the way you’ve been positioning yourself around me all game and the 180 on Hu without much explanation is making me think you are scum.

[ItalianoVD]

That was the start of the townlean yes. As the day progressed and more things happened I had more to sort from you and it solidified it to a strong townread.

[ItalianoVD]

VOTE: Ausuka

[ItalianoVD]

Haven’t really paid attention to you which is my fault, but the way you’ve been positioning yourself around me all game and the 180 on Hu without much explanation is making me think you are scum.

i said hu tao was "maybe town" off like 3 posts when i was giving loose rvs reads. how is that a 180

Yeah and imo didn’t do enough to change that read. I think I missed the response to Cook in his ISO because I didn’t see what looked like openwolfing.

[ItalianoVD]

That was the start of the townlean yes. As the day progressed and more things happened I had more to sort from you and it solidified it to a strong townread.

This was responding to 1529

[ItalianoVD]

So both Cook and Ausuka voting me now.

[ItalianoVD]

VOTE: Ausuka

Was 1528 directed at me?

Oh no sorry, that was to Fire.

[ItalianoVD]

I was trying to keep this to myself as long as possible but I also am a power role.

This is why I didn’t believe Cook’s claim, but when a few said, (I’d have to go back and look at who it was) that rolecop wasn’t actually that strong I doubted myself and the fact I’m not good with mechanics made it more like huh.

The “If it gets me killed then so be it, I’ve always said I don’t need to be alive for town to win.” was purposely said to avoid people thinking I had a role, but I in fact do, my bad.

Black I think it’s just Cook here.

[ItalianoVD]

To clarify, I am Town Odd Night Neapolitan.

[ItalianoVD]

That was the start of the townlean yes. As the day progressed and more things happened I had more to sort from you and it solidified it to a strong townread.

This was responding to 1529

I don't think you've really explained how you sorted me. If I missed it I apologize

Yeah I don’t really do it for my townreads. 718 was probably the towniest post. I read tonally and Injust don’t see why scum would say what you said here. It’s open and transparent which scum don’t want to be.

[ItalianoVD]

VOTE: Cook

[ItalianoVD]

I don't think you should proclaim to townread me this strongly without justification cuz there's been some reasons people have scumread me that seemingly contradict why you TR me but you seem to just avoid speaking on them. Posts like 1519 felt like deflections more than anything.

What is this “you don’t scumread me therefore you must be scum or I’m sus of you” I’ve been seeing in this game lately? I haven’t played in like 2 years, but I don’t remember it being like this last time I was here. It’s been this way all three games I’ve played since I’ve been back.

I don’t care if other people scumread you, I don’t and I’ve made it clear why I don’t. If you or people don’t like or vibe with that, it’s not a me problem. Sorry if it sounds rude or flippant, but it’s just kinda annoying when I’m trying to sort people and I got them saying “you townread me, you can’t do that, you’re supposed to scumread me.”

but tbh I think Italiano's move here is to play up a bad TR on me cuz people already think we're S/S and if Italiano is today's lim (which is likely) then that implicates me but his TR isn't likely to convince anyone to not vote me if they wanted to cuz it hasn't got much meat to it

Nah, because I’m town if/when I do flip you will be cleared.

And I generally don’t go around following my townreads and commenting on everything they say and tell people “see, see how towny that was, etc.” That would be goofy, but if one of my townreads starts getting heat on them and they get run up you better believe I will fight for them. Then I’ll bring receipts. In the context of this game there has been no need for me to do that in your case. Is there such a thing as too towny to be towny?

[ItalianoVD]

What is this “you don’t scumread me therefore you must be scum or I’m sus of you” I’ve been seeing in this game lately? I haven’t played in like 2 years, but I don’t remember it being like this last time I was here. It’s been this way all three games I’ve played since I’ve been back.

I don’t care if other people scumread you, I don’t and I’ve made it clear why I don’t. If you or people don’t like or vibe with that, it’s not a me problem. Sorry if it sounds rude or flippant, but it’s just kinda annoying when I’m trying to sort people and I got them saying “you townread me, you can’t do that, you’re supposed to scumread me.”

that's not what I'm saying

I know that’s not what you said specifically, but there is a sentiment that people who townread players are getting more suspicion than those you scumread.

I mean if scumreading players circumvents suspicion then why wouldn’t scum do that? I simply don’t care if I get scumread for townreading people “I” feel is worthy to be townread. Listen I’m not trying to start up a long back and forth here. It is what it is.

[ItalianoVD]

Anyone considering voting outside of Cook/Ausuka/Italiano should figure out which of these 3 claimed roles we yeet today. We're not running a 4th person up to claim

I agree with this 100%

[ItalianoVD]

Aight peeps, I’m gonna for a few hours. Ciao.

[ItalianoVD]

*Gone.

[ItalianoVD]

VOTE: Ausuka

[ItalianoVD]

We’re voting Hu Tao? How’d this happen?

[ItalianoVD]

Oh I see.

[ItalianoVD]

We’re voting Hu Tao? How’d this happen?

Oh I see.

Thoughts?

It’s pretty meh. I could go here just so that we don’t no lim, but I’d rather go Cook.

[ItalianoVD]

Oh I see.

You down to flashwagon Cook here?

-A

Of course.

[ItalianoVD]

But I don’t think Cool is a reality today.

[ItalianoVD]

*Cook

[ItalianoVD]

I do have a couple of theories about this Hu wagon though.

town!Black could be overthinking scum!Ausuka, which I can definitely understand as I tend to overthink and my mind is always racing with potential theories, I hate it actually.

I don’t think Black and Ausuka are partners because why mess up a perfectly legit bus just to go somewhere else, unless Hu is the other partner. Really clumsy and just not likely to me.

One thing I do know is that Black really believes Ausuka is scum. I don’t really even know if Ausuka is scum here, it’s very possible, but I’d rather it be Cook, but no one wants Cook and I’m obviously not voting myself this time.

[ItalianoVD]

Why are you okay with running someone else up in the first place Black? I thought we agreed it would be within the claims.

[ItalianoVD]

Let’s see what we can do here.

VOTE: Cook

I’ll be here until deadline so if I have to change to Hu I will, but I won’t be happy about it.

[ItalianoVD]

VOTE: Ausuka

I wanna give Hu Tao more time.

[ItalianoVD]

I think we should to.

[ItalianoVD]

Also should we gate all the claimed roles?

[ItalianoVD]

If we are believing all of our stories then technically only me and Cook have active roles. Ausuka wouldn’t be able to do anything unless/until the actual Watcher dies.

[ItalianoVD]

We will need to figure out what we’re doing aling with the elimination.

[ItalianoVD]

*along

[ItalianoVD]

Do we? It's not the most likely, but we can't rule out that scum has a rolestopper or something, I don't see why we need to plan out the NAs?

Obviously I won't have any power regardless shrug, for all I know there isn't even a watcher to begin with

I guess not, just a thought I had.

[ItalianoVD]

I think hesitance to voting a slot which is lurky at the end of day (and posted after the wagon on them emerged so shrug it's not like they didn't get a chance to speak) and preference towards voting someone who is actually here, even without actively having reasons to scumread them, is something which is like... very much unique to this game and I'm not sure if I believe it's entirely genuine

I probably went too easy on invis and he could be scum here

Fwiw I don’t know if you flip scum here, but I think the chance is higher that you do then Hu fmpov. I generally don’t like limming low activity/low information slots on Day 1 anyway, but I just don’t see what everyone sees. I guess not enough to vote him over you.

[ItalianoVD]

Ugh, this is why I hate this game sometimes. I targeted Black last not and my result was “not a vanilla townie”.

I don’t know what’s happening, but interestingly enough Cook comes in and says she checks Black and immediately outs her role.

I don’t like this because either Cook is setting up Black to get nightkilled or they are partners and trying to get ahead of the town.

Either way.

VOTE: Cook

[ItalianoVD]

The reason I checked Black was because I couldn’t really get a comfortable read on her. At one time I had her as Cook’s partner or even Ausuka’s, but her conviction on Ausuka and then the flip on her late day 1 is what I assumed to be overthinking and very much a townie thing I know from experience. The results of today just make it a little stronger for me.

I mean if she is scum, it’s with Cook, but there’s a possibility that she is just town here.

at all of this.

[ItalianoVD]

Don’t like Something_Smart pushing me as scum now. Didn’t have a presence on Day 1 and now is in early to make sure the narrative is formed.

He is probably partners with Cook.

[ItalianoVD]

So Cook is basically confscum and I’m annoyed that y’all can’t see this. I mean she changed her claim from bulletproof to ascetic at a time that was extremely convenient for her. Flower’s worldview made the most sense to me because it’s true. I knew some wacky nonsense was gonna happen mechanically. It does every time I’m a pr.

Fire, what are you on?

Flower came to the realization that if I was scum I was probably fakeclaiming, and that's the difference.

Prior to that they thought I would/could be true claiming which is also a reasonable assumption. The logic checks out to me.

[ItalianoVD]

Ugh, this is why I hate this game sometimes. I targeted Black last not and my result was “not a vanilla townie”.

Haha, of course you did! What a wacky coincidence.

VOTE: Italiano

Yeah I’m annoyed and frustrated by it, but if I was scum I’d know how bad it’d look for me and I’d just claimed I was blocked.

And Black was one of the most important slots to resolve, and one of the most useful to potentially clear.

[ItalianoVD]

If Cook is town, Flower and IVD are scum

If Cook is scum, I think IVD is town and Flower is probably town too

There's no world where Cook's town here, go re-read Ausukas mechposting where she says Cook's scum trueclaiming if there's a vig in the game

-Nameless

Why does scum-Cook tell everyone who the tracker is so the watcher knows who to be on?

Bruh, why does town-Cook out the tracker in the first place? And if you think I’m scum and Cook is town, you really believe that there would be a Tracker, a Watcher, a Backup Watcher, a Vig, and a Rolecop?

I mean I’m bad at mechanics, but not that bad, that’s crazy.

I mean I thought the only other scenario that possibly makes sense is if Black is scum with Cook, but I kinda did away with that idea. Cook is just scum here.

[ItalianoVD]

Why arent more people bothered with Cook claiming 1-Shot BP Rolecop with Ausuka pointing out that if there's a vig then Cook's probably trueclaiming scum and then after the vig shoots and Ausuka flips town her claim suddenly changes to one that isn't a blatant scumclaim

-A

Yes. Sometimes the most obvious answer is the right one. Smh.

[ItalianoVD]

I don't really know what to think rn

I'm leaning towards yeeting IVD. The last time Flower was this adamant about their agenda they were scum. Not the most definitive tell but it's making it hard for me to trust them

So trust me then. Even if you take away mechanics Cook’s dayplay is scum. The early wagon fiasco, the weird claim that “the scum on my wagon knows about me” (paraphrase). Their interaction with both Ausuka and you (I’m going with the idea that you are town here). And now that we know Ausuka is town it makes even more sense that Cook is scum here. Look over all of that again and if you still wanna lim me then fine, but I at least want you to use logic here.

[ItalianoVD]

if the mech is obvious then SS will agree with you and then okay fine whatever

if he disagrees or thinks it could go either way then im going off dayplay

You should go off dayplay regardless.

[ItalianoVD]

like i’m going to flip green and you know it

Who knows it?

i’ve already said everything i can do and ruined the game (so it seems) for my team

Huh

Sometimes the most obvious answer is the right one.

The obvious answer is that odd-night cop claims are never real, because they aren't.

According to you. And never is a really strong word. I highly doubt you have experienced every single odd night Neapolitan situation that has ever been on this site. I think you’re exaggerating to push your agenda here. I don’t care how much you say it’s fake, it’s not.

And no responses to my other posts?

[ItalianoVD]

@Black: did you look at 2037? Did I miss a response from you?

[ItalianoVD]

Alright go ahead and bus me.

[ItalianoVD]

VOTE: Italiano

[ItalianoVD]

Great job team, especially the final coordination. I had fun and happy to have won another scumgame.

Thanks sheep for running it and for all others who designed and reviewed it.

Oh one thing, can we stop trolling players with red herring roles Like bruh. "Backup Watcher" oh really.

[ItalianoVD]

I was once "Town Mailman Enabler" for "Scum Mailman". Fun times.

[ItalianoVD]

I said it in the mafia pt, but this was one of the best experiences I’ve had on a scumteam. We worked together well and I was happy to be a part of it.

Fire and Katy co-MVP. Fire for getting townlocked by everyone and Katy for coordinating the hammer. Excellent play and kudos to you both.