vollkan - 4: Xtoxm, orangepenguin, Riceballtail, mrfixij
G-Force - 1: curiouskarmadog
orangepenguin - 1: babygirl86
PyroDwarf - 1: bionicchop2
mrfixij - 1: G-Force
Not voting: Rhinox, Scheherazade, PyroDwarf, Erratus Apathos
7 votes will lynch.
Indeed, I don't like the mason claim. But I think it's nowhere near the top priority of suspicion. That's one of the things that I need to go back and take another look at. But I've stated my dislike for it, which is different from trying to discredit it. Considering the length and content of pyro's post when he mentioned it, it is obvious that a primary point of 1/21st of his material (just under 5%) is to express a distaste and disbelief for the mason claim. Whereas I, in roughly 3 posts mentioned it once in passing in a quick synopsis of my first impressions of the thread.G-Force wrote:mrfixij wrote:Alright, as of now I can really get behind a bg/vollkan lynch.
I'm really not liking the mason claim,but I think vollkan is a higher priority right now, ESPECIALLY considering the meta we now have on BG.
Rhinox I've noticed did some speculating on the setup of the game, which is something I never advocate. Any suspicion I would have on him would be based solely on policy though, which I'm trying to cut down on after being called out for it in several other games.
There's an exchange around post 251 - 253 which suggests a very moderate chance of a pairing between Gforce and BionicChop. I think I'm just reaching here, but I'm never one to keep suspicions to myself.
This was all just on a very brief read-through. I took a few notes as to areas I want to read more in-depth, and will post additional thoughts once I get more time to.emphasis minemrfixij wrote:I'm not really a big fan of pyrodwarf right now. I just went back through his posts so far in the game, and he currently has 21 posts. As it is, most of his posts are very... insubstantial. He repeatedly places crosshairs on EA, but fails to press him and basically leaves a vote on him as a "lol IGMEOY" thing.He tried to discount the mason claim.As soon as EA calls pyro out on his attack, pyro changes his line of questioning to X and CKD, but again fails to press them and simply asks superficial questions. He has very short posts, with the exception of this most recent one, which is for all intents and purposes a suspicion list.
So you don't like the mason claim, but you suspect PyroDwarf for trying to discount it? Incidentally, why don't you like the mason claim? I have my suspicions od Pyro myself, and I could see this as scum bussing. My vote was already on Juls, and I'm quite happy leaving it on her replacement.
Rhetorical question. Given that masons are mafia without a nightkill (and win with town), you can see just how convenient a mason claim is for scum. At the moment, I think it clears, but masons being outed always gives me a funny feeling.Xtoxm wrote:You don't like the mason claim?
You mean, you don't like the fact you've lost two of your planned mislynches?
I am suspicious of these people trying to STILL say me and RBT are scum.
Potentially a better lynch than Volkan, perhaps....
PyroDwarf wrote:Wait, what? people are buying the mason claim? I'm not sure i understand. On N0, you guys picked someone at random to attack? Color me confused.
I have never been in a game with masons,how likely is it that they are both scum? Or would that just be way to huge of a gambit for scum to risk?
Bold for emphasis. Using a critique for my predecessor that he makes only 5 posts before. Explain yourself, now.PyroDwarf wrote:Juls/mrfixij: I was leaning scum on her, tbh. Her page 4 summary was not very helpful, seemd liked forced scum hunting.SHe focuses on the mason team, then on the vig. G-force puts on some pressure about her leaving her vote on OP, then she quits. Mrfixij has one post, and its good, so we shall see.
I find the difference in tone and context between my statement about the masons and his to be substantial enough to make them almost apples and oranges. He made it seem that the mason claim was irrational to accept, and expressed astonishment that anyone was buying it. I expressed a general distaste for it, which is completely due to a lack of personal experience with all things mason (Of course, a game I co-host has a mason group recruiter get NK'd N1.) Also, I expressed more in my criticism of Pyro than simply the mason debacle, but the tone and eagerness to lynch the claimed masons is much more drastic than my synopsis where I state a dislike of the claim.bionicchop2 wrote:I am obviously in the 'pyro for scum' fan club, but I think this post from you is off. For one, this is kind of a twist on the same thing you were called out for by G-Force. Also, I actually understand what he was saying in the first post because (I think) RBT made a sarcastic post about being scum and bussing each other which could have been confusing if you don't realize it is sarcasm. I mentioned him missing the sarcasm in my PbPa of Pyro. I think in this case it was pretty obvious the post by RBT just went over his head and I am not sure what you are trying to point out here.
I'm dreadfully sorry, I went back through your posts and realized that my initial note was indeed wrong. I believe I'd mistaken repeated reference to having 3 scum as a speculation of setup without having taken care to look at the setup myself, and seeing that the standard scum setup would indeed be three. That was careless reading and a careless accusation on my part, which I now respectfully withdraw.Rhinox wrote:@mrfixij: you haven't resonded to my questions in my last post. You hinted at the idea of advocating a policy lynch of me on the grounds that I speculated on the setup. Please show me where I speculated on the setup. I don't believe I have.
It's not Vollkan's place to provide an alternative. It is his place to contribute if he is town. I don't consider it a good strategy when under pressure to simply defend yourself. In fact, I've seen vollkan debate, he retorts effectively, placing suspicion elsewhere while simultanously defending himself seamlessly. Whereas here, he is not contributing to town, he's contributing to not getting himself lynched.Rhinox wrote:I completely disagree with you. It is not Volkan's place to simply provide an alternative just to find a way to shift the pressure off of himself. In fact, I would interpret doing so as avoiding the issue and deflecting.mrfixij wrote: As it is Vollkan, I would much rather have your thoughts on who is and is not scummy, as opposed to trying to justify BG's meta. I know you gave that in your initial synopsis, but since then you're cutting away at strawment in the attack against BG, and failing to provide any significant help in scumhunting. My vote stands. If Vollkan continues to strawman and cease to provide an alternative, I suggest a claim and/or a lynch.
The first part is what I'm looking at. It reeks of simultaneous failure to commit and condemnation of the mason claim. The second part I can understand because the mason claim shown here:PyroDwarf wrote:Wait, what? people are buying the mason claim? I'm not sure i understand. On N0, you guys picked someone at random to attack? Color me confused.
I have never been in a game with masons,how likely is it that they are both scum? Or would that just be way to huge of a gambit for scum to risk?
Is confusing as all hell.Riceballtail wrote:No, it's all just a well organized lie that we did during our N0 communication. We also decided that I should bus Sche, while he defends, so that we can completely get one of us to be a "definitely town", even while the other one is scummy.
Given the portfolio of games which BG has played and been replaced out of, I find it hard to call her inexperienced. She's more experienced than you or I, at least on this site. She may be a universally poor player, but she is not inexperienced. Letting Vollkan start with a clean slate is a fallacy. Yes, it is a bad thing for him that he can't explain what was going through BG's head, if anything.Rhinox wrote:Sche's case is good, but I'm not sure its lynchworthy now that she's been replaced. Since she's replaced out, a lot of the actions can be explained by realizing that she was just a poor, inexperienced player with no real interest in playing the game (hence, the inactivity and quitting). Its difficult to determine whether any of the points sche made point to her being more likely to be scum or town based on both the global meta and her specific meta. I'm fine with letting volkan start with basically a clean slate and letting him shape his own character based on his own actions, but thats never going to happen unless we move past the "should volkan be lynched because of bg" argument.
I think sche's case is where we should have started when bg quit, and not jumped immediately to "ZOMGZ bg quit once while scum!!1!" Either way, I think we would have ended up with the same conclusion
I have always had a VERY hard time reading vollkan's play, and I was not here in game while babygirl was to witness her actions in context. As it is, I can only go back and view what she said through a post-hoc lens. As such, I can feel that she was scummy, but I don't feel qualified to create a powerful case against her play.G-Force wrote:mrfixij still looks scummy to me. He keeps parroting "If you thought BG played scummy, then you think volkan is scum!" which is oversimplifying the matter. Its perfectly reasonable to think that BG was scummy, but that volkan should be allowed to live (at least for now) while we pursue other options. I, for one, think that BG's offenses were not the most lynchworthy things that have happened this game. Your attempt to create a false dilemma is noted. Also, while you say that volkan is your preferred lynch, and that pyro and schez are next in line, you continue to attack pyro more aggressively than volk and schez. I had earlier theorized that you were trying to bus your buddy, and nothing so far has changed my oppinion on that.
I quickly scanned through my posts, just out of morbid curiosity of what you would be referring to. The only time which I mentioned him was when I brought up that he had failed to procure a vote. When he responded, due to the meta I had on him from concurrent games I'm playing with him and his time on the site thus far, I decided that he was intimidated by who he was playing with, and didn't cast a vote. I still find it strange that he hasn't voted, but that doesn't eliminate the validity of his case.Come to think of it, you've recently praised Schez's case as being strong despite your earlier suspicions of him. What is your current position on Schez?
At this point, I'm looking for material. If I get a case, I'll present it. As it is, I've been silent these past few days because I haven't been able to find it, and when I noticed something funny, I pointed it out (re: Biochop). Then Schez asked for my opinions, and I explained what I've been thinking so far.vollkan wrote:I've already explained my decision not to claim. I am of the view that claiming is basically an "any last words" sort of thing. Seeing as I hadn't even gotten to rebutting the case against me, it struck me as, well, absurd to think that I should claim in such a situation. I've seen enough premature claims in my time on this site to know there is nothing wrong with holding back.
Also, it was actually Bio who brought up the whole point about the quotes being out of context. And, in any event, I hardly see why pointing out something like that should be at all problematic.
That would be the dumbest possible scum/town move possible IMO. The scary part is that it might actually work.PyroDwarf wrote:it cant be that i'm getting tired of having walls of text everywhere i look or having d1 suspicions streched to their breaking...bionicchop2 wrote:I still think pyro is scum also. Look at the weak chainsaw he put on me and then the vote switch to vollkan last minute when momentum was shifting back towards lynching him.
Now that I have confirmation of my suspicions on vollkan, I will try to find any possible pairings to help for tomorrow.
I wouldnt be suprised if niether of you were the doc...
I'm thinking no, since mason isn't really a power role as much as it is a trait, like miller. Also, scum.PyroDwarf wrote:ummm claiming doc would draw a scum anybody nk anyways....mrfixij wrote:I still don't like Pyro. Between being doc and the aggression on Pyro at the last second, Bio was the ideal NK for scum pyro.
vote pyro
I don't see how that can be linked to me at all.
Yeah he was looking at me, but so were you.
Anyways, I thought OP may have been SK, but looks like rhinox was.
If RBT was a mason, would it have shown in his death scene?
What would be the purpose of holding back a lynch target?Xtoxm wrote:Nice kill OP, I was hoping he'd die at night, but I didn't want to direct your kill.
I'd have thought RBT would be revealed as Mason, that's kinda odd. Guess it's a hidden property.
Wonder why Rhinox killed him instead of me...
Anyway, I do actually have an intended lynch target for today, but not sure I should say it yet...
You're making me facepalm so hard right now. Unless scum has a daykill, then you're of equal threat to scum no matter what. Besides, pyro is our lynch today, so it couldn't hurt to tell who you think is next.Xtoxm wrote:Cleared townies have to keep their cards closer to their chests than others, because if me and OP were to be detailed about our suspicions it just basically tells scum exactly who to kill.
Looks like you're a scum using a semantic to weasel your way out of being lynched.PyroDwarf wrote:Agreed to be our second lynch? Looks like you are seeing someone that doesn't agree with you and you want to use a previous "commitment" to get your way.mrfixij wrote:I've had a minor scum gut on EA too, but I'm not nearly as sure of it as I am of pyro. Everything that he's playing doesn't add up to anything but scum, especially the late term vollkan bus. I was against him all of D1, and he was agreed to be our second lynch IIRC.
The second mason (who happens to now be dead) was backing your lynch as a substitute for vollkan's. Either way we would have pinned scum. In my present bloodlust, I didn't bother to go back and check the record, I just remembered that there was a suggestion to lynch you instead of voll, which makes you the backup lynch. Btw, you're scum.PyroDwarf wrote:you are the one saying I should be lynched because it was "agreed upon" on day one! Semantics...
Of course you don't like the way I'm going about this, you're scum.PyroDwarf wrote:okay, we understand you think I'm scum. Telling people to vote for me when they wont be able to remove their vote? What happend to providing arguments for your case and such? I know that tunnel vision =/= scum, but when does the methods used by the "tunnler" move from "narrow sighted townie" into "scum with a good chance of myslynch".
I'm sure you won't drop my wagon untill some one comes out and says "i am scum".
That or some one got a guilty cop investigation last night.
I won't bore you with my individual reads on people, honestly I'm thinking CKD, but I don't want to pick on some one that isnt going to be here for a week.
I'll give mrfixij the bennifit of the doubt, and avoid omgus, but i dont like how he is trying to get my wagon going.
Allow me to answer this question for OP.PyroDwarf wrote:If he thought I was more scummy than CKD, he would have voted for me.
i belive you are trying to play up suspicions from Bio and you yourself into my lynch today. For the time being, I will belive that you are just tunnel visioned on me.
If ckd is also scummy, why not go after him? You might get some support, as EA is already voting him and xtoxm voiced some minor concern about him.
@OP: What made me one of your choices?
Wait, what?Xtoxm wrote:Way I see it, fix will force a mislynch on Pyro when me and OP are gone, so today is basically lylo.
That's because it's not even a case. It's a bunch of post-hoc garbage that is sidetracking town from the proper lynch, and thusly giving me a ton of information.curiouskarmadog wrote: couple questions, mrfix, you posted but completely ignored gforce's case..thoughts on that?
You know what I'm trying to say here. When I wasn't voting vollkan, I was voting you. My vote was on scum the entire time.PyroDwarf wrote:I'm not sure what you are trying to say here.mrfixij wrote:Despite my hesitation to lynch vollkan, the sheer fact that regardless of my target, I had my vote on scum is good enough in my eyes.