Iceman Modeth - Mini 688 (GAME OVER!!!)

[PyroDwarf]

howdy, I seem to be a bit late here,

Vote: Erratus Apathos

because everyone knows that 76.3% of statistics are made up on the spot.
Scheherazade seems to have stired the pot a bit with his probing of juls, but, why juls? Did you just pick some one at random to ask that to? Or are you trying to catch the old man in a moment of senility

[PyroDwarf]

come on people, on of you stop acting silly and start acting scummy.
I dont really know whats up with all this, I too, would like some explaination from EA.

[PyroDwarf]

Pyrodwarf - Nothing to scummy but not adding anything to the conversation either.

I haven't said much becase It didn't really seem like that much was going on. I dont understand Erratus Apathos comments. Can you please eleaborate? Are you trying to catch scum by hoping that they will quick lynch? orangepenguin pointed out the flaw of this in his post 71.
I think the "if i were scum" comment made a while back is innocent. I don't think it can be anylized without endless WIFOM.

You obviously don't know me very well then, do you?

Are we supposed to know you? This is more of the stuff he voted you for, I think
CKD and Xtoxm, are you voting for juls because of her immitation of Erratus? Are other people suspicuis of Erratus, because I am, so i will keep my vote there for the moment.

[PyroDwarf]

Trying to see if I'm a popular target before deciding whether to attack me?

Unvote, Vote: PyroDwarf

No, just seeing if other people found your actions suspicious.

[PyroDwarf]

Why is that important?

Because Juls got voted for doing something simmilar to what you did. My Vote is already on you from the random stage. I think i will keep it there. I don't need people's approval to "attack" you. I was just curious to see what other people thought about your actions.

[PyroDwarf]

Could you possibly be more vague?

well, in your post 47, you switch votes with no explaination.
then in juls' post 49, she switches votes in responce to your post 47, this gets her two votes.
in your post 63 you "explain" your vote.

I love wagon.

Calling me vague?
I just want to know why juls gets voted and you don't. Also, who said I was geting ready to attack you? If people are going to vote for you, its going to be because of your actions, not because I say "omg yer scum" At this point, I'm still voting you, but I am still watching the conversation develop between the other players.

[PyroDwarf]

So you've been focusing on me all game, but you're not going to attack me? That doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

I have been focusing on you. Initially it was because of your vote switching. Then we got into this back and forth deal here.
I will take your suggestion and flip my question, CKD and xtoxm, why did you vote juls and not EA? This is why I asked if people thought EA was scummy.

I think that people who are attacking EA are attempting to Chainsaw the wagon down off a scumbuddy.

I'm pretty sure I was the only person questioning EA when he said that, so I think there may be a typo, or I don't see your 'chainsaw"

VOTE COUNT:

Scheherezad - 3: orangepenguin, Panamon, Riceballtail,
Xtoxm - 2: Juls, curiouskarmadog
Erratus Apathos - 1: Pyrodwarf
Riceballtail - 1: Rhinox
Pyrodwarf - 1: Erratus Apathos
Rhinox - 1: Xtoxm

[PyroDwarf]

I think day one suspect lists are hardly ever accurate, unless you have some sort of doppler-satalite-laser-topagraphy-scumdar, but they don't ring suspicious to me.
@RBT: I too, would like to see an answer to sche's post 127.

I don't like how you've been attacking Rhinox with only the barest minimum of justification or reasoning, nor do I like the fact that neither of you has made a post longer than 50 words.

Look at RBT's post history in all games, I dont think he's EVER made a post over 50 words. But i would like to see more from xtoxm than "thats bullshit" "because they are" and

CKD is also scummy.

why? Because he questioned your stance on rhinox? Also, he is active in other games but hasen't been here for a couple days, forget about us?

[PyroDwarf]

Unvote, Vote:Riceballtail

You're getting my vote for avoiding questions directed at you from other players that I would also like to see a response to.
It may be your "style" to post very few words, but sometimes one sentence retorts just don't cut it. I've read the thread, and I'm pretty sure EA has as well. He is not the first to express confusion regarding your "chainsaw".

[PyroDwarf]

Is it just me, or has xtoxm voted or called scummy every one that has done the same to him?

[PyroDwarf]

If how I have been acting (can you explain how I have been acting?) is worth a vote in addition to me voting you, then fine, vote me Xtoxm.

I got a dollar that says his response will be:

"scummy"

[PyroDwarf]

keeping my vote on RBT. I'm not liking the way he's responing/not responding to CKD's questioning.
Xtoxm, why are you gonna role claim?

[PyroDwarf]

Wow, I should change my "style" to posting one liners and avoiding direct questions. If i get called on it i can just say "you don't know me"
Xtoxm, you were at three votes for almost 2 whole pages, why roleclaim at the end of all that, its not like you are close to lynch.
Lets get some of the lurkers in on this. We might have to adopt the policy in yos2's sig "lynch all lurkers"

[PyroDwarf]

yeah that was a joke...mostly

[PyroDwarf]

Sorry if you don't like my playstyle, but when I play like other people say I should, I always lose my focus on who I think is scum.

We aren't saying you should play in a certian way, we just hava few questions for you.

[PyroDwarf]

Wait, what? people are buying the mason claim? I'm not sure i understand. On N0, you guys picked someone at random to attack? Color me confused.
I have never been in a game with masons,how likely is it that they are both scum? Or would that just be way to huge of a gambit for scum to risk?

[PyroDwarf]

...Is PD seriously proposing a lynch of masons?[/b]

no, i'm asking how likley it is that you are lying. that is all.

unvote

[PyroDwarf]

Pyro analysis:

182 - suggests lynch all lurkers, but with a smiley face. Rest of post is ok.
185 - says LAL was a 'joke...mostly'. Feels like the joke to gauge people's reactions.
188 - says 'we' have questions for RBT when he hasn't asked her one question yet.
222 - really has problems picking up on sarcasm. Says he does not believe claim.
232 - immediately backs off when questioned and unvotes.

182 and 185 I would always prefer a replacement to a policy lynch.
188- I guess i should have said "several people have questions that we would like to see answers to."
222- sarcasm doesn't translate well in text.
232- I just wanted to be sure. just about every one accepts thier claim. I wasn't suggesting lynching.

[PyroDwarf]

I'm not sure about OP's claim. Every one seems pretty willing to accept it. He was only at 4 votes. Why claim such a high profile role so quickly? He said his wagon was growing quickly, but several people hadn't even posted.
Does any one else think that scum may have been his wagon?

[PyroDwarf]

Ouch two replacement reqs. As an aside, I left mafia scum for that same reason a few months ago, but i just had a itch to play so i signed up for one game.

The charge that you're not scum-hunting, levelled by bionicchop2, seems both to apply and to resist defence. Do you have any thoughts on the charge and your behaviour over the course of the game?

I'm just not a very vocal player. I am still learning as a player. I thought my questioning of EA may have gone somewhere, but RBT seemed more scummy then.
In my post where i suggested scum was on OP's wagon, I mean to look at those players when i get off work (if i dont start playing fallout 3...) I'll get an anylisis up on the people on OP's wagon.

[PyroDwarf]

I was typing out summaries, but im sure you people can read so here is a quick version.

BG/vol: she plays bad as scum, she plays bad a town. Lets hear Vol claim and then see whats what.

CKD: first few posts are thin, rides X and RBT, gets into theory debate.

EA: My first focus,Not much to say about him now.

G-force: solid posts. backs up votes and such. Leaning town

Juls/mrfixij: I was leaning scum on her, tbh. Her page 4 summary was not very helpful, seemd liked forced scum hunting. SHe focuses on the mason team, then on the vig. G-force puts on some pressure about her leaving her vote on OP, then she quits. Mrfixij has one post, and its good, so we shall see.

OP: his leaving vote on sche then removing it after a bit a pressure struck me as odd. I aggree with EA, that i dont like the "other people are doing it" comment. Claims vig, some people don't buy it. Suggests we will know he is vig by flavor of the kill, we shall see.

panamon/bionicchop: well pan had 3 post, and zero content so I'll skip him. Bio goes after ma and OP. Has a bit of a theroy discussion. Votes OP, op claims changes vote. solid posts.

Rhinox: starts out focusing on Xtoxm, rbt and BG. leaning town.

RBT:alot of people were on him early game, and then he claimed mason. Posting style and not answering direct questions, but he's confirmad town now...right?

sche: asks questions, could just be a pro-town front.

Xtoxm: short post, lots of OMGUS. Then claimed mason.

It seems that a lot of people had Xtoxm and rbt in their crosshairs. I think BG was a good lynch candidate, but we have evidince where she plays bad on both sides of the scum-ball. I wanna see what people say about my list here before i place my vote. I got 2 people in mind.

[PyroDwarf]

I'm known for my policy rants, and I'll try to keep this one short, but at no stage in the game, save for possibly lylo, is a list of all players and your thoughts on them a good thing.

it helps me organize my thoughts, i suppose i could just put em on a note pad, but i'd feel like a geek.
I'm not trying to discrdit the mason claim, just at the time they came out, they were both pretty high on people's lists. It was just a shock to me.

[PyroDwarf]

well, bionic figured it out. once i reread rbt's post a few times, i said "ooooohhhhhh" like duh.thats why i was wondering what was going on.

Explain yourself, now.

relax yourself, please.

[PyroDwarf]

Also, I expressed more in my criticism of Pyro than simply the mason debacle, but the tone and eagerness to lynch the claimed masons is much more drastic than my synopsis where I state a dislike of the claim.

where is this eagerness to lynch masons? If i was eager to lynch them I would have said "not buying it" and kept my vote on RBT.
What don't you like about the mason claim?

[PyroDwarf]

i was surprised because xtoxm and rbt were high on a lot of people's scum lists.

[PyroDwarf]

You're

(bionicchop)

simply waving off volkan's defence as just being volkan good at arguing and debating.

There is this, but also:

He then twisted it to be that she was being attacked for not explaining and her not explaining was a result of her inactivity / laziness, thus she was being attacked for inactivity / laziness.

I think this is bionic's main point, but I think it just goes to show her bad play in general.

My thinking is that bionic and voll can argue about this meta until the cows come home, and positions/ opinions won't change.
This meta argument has overrun the town with long PBP analysis of other games of a player that is not even in this game any more. Voll has spent his whole time here defending the play of what has shown to be an across the board bad player.
Rhinox says Bionic has tunnel vision. It seems that way at the moment, but he has mentioned me and OP ant one point. He laid off of OP once he claimed vig.
I think it is time to move on from this meta argument, as I believe it is distracting the town. So for the one pushing this arguemnt

Vote: Bionicchop2

.
I think BG has been shown to be a bad player in general. Bio continues to push this issue. Also, I didn't really like his response to Rhinox's latest post.

[PyroDwarf]

oh no! the guy drawing the meta argument out as long as he can makes another sarcastic post.
why does it matter that I'm #2 on your list?

[PyroDwarf]

I believe that the drawn out meta argument is distracting for the rest of the town.
You are the main driving force pushing the meta argument.

[PyroDwarf]

I like how your posts have gone from long drawn out analysis to sarcasm and hostility.
All i had to do was mention that you were distracting the town.
i don't know, it just seemed to me like you really wouldnt let it got even after it had been analyzed by several players.
It seemd like you really wanted to lynch Voll based on BG's meta, even when it was shown that she was a bad player on both sides of the field.

[PyroDwarf]

i was just pointing out that his usual anylitical self became sarcastic and hostile when i pointed out his drawn out meta argument.

[PyroDwarf]

who peed in your koolaide?
i'm sorry you couldn't convince people to lynch vol.
Aparently I am not the only one that dislikes your zeal, you have more than one vote.
That meta argument went on way to long, I think other people would agree. Notice how it was mainly a back and forth vetween you and vol, with sche poping in here and there? I know rbt and ckd were on LA, but what about EA, mrfixijt, op, and xtoxm? g-force and rhinox had a few post in there, too.
By distracting the town, i mean you were arguing about a player who has been shown to play bad as scum and town, and trying to discredit vol by saying basically "beware his silver toung"

[PyroDwarf]

nah i read, there was also that part where you say vol is twisting the argument. Is that what you are insinuating that i didn't read?
no need to get all snippy.

[PyroDwarf]

i didnt skim. i just didnt feel like bringing up every point you made because,well, people can read for them self.

Don't be so easily swayed by long posts full of quotes and assertive statements by someone with confidence.

i was just using the "silver tounge"as an example of

one

of your arguments.

[PyroDwarf]

Well, if by "victor" you mean "cast a reasonable doubt as to his alliance" then yeah. I think now we will be able to judge vol by his own actions, rather than those of an across the board bad player.

[PyroDwarf]

@pyro: What specifically makes you think that BC is scum trying to distract rather than town who is convinced of his case?

I guess I really hadn't cosidered that. That would make sence with the tunnelvision argument. I voted mainly because the meta argument was seeming like it was becoming BC beating a dead horse.

[PyroDwarf]

@PyroDwarf: Your vote is on a player who accused you of not scum hunting. Your objective with your vote seems to be forcing him to stop the meta argument. You're proving his point.
Do you think he's scum? Your last point indicates that you didn't before, but doesn't help me figure out your current position. If he isn't, then are there any in this game whom you suspect? Please take a stand: there have been twenty pages to go on and I think they're not entirely devoid of material.

Well, when RBT came up as mason, I lost my highest suspicion. Then OP flipped vig. Now, I'm really not sure. I'm thinking Mrfixij or CKD would be worth a look, i could even go back to EA, who I had begun to question earlier.
What does a Voll lynch tell us? If he flips scum, good for us, and scum loses a player that seems very well spoken.
If he is town, who does it look bad on? BC, sche? Some one quietley putting a vote on him?
My vote on BC was like I said because of his drawn out meta deal. G-force brings up a good point of the convinced townie.
I agree with xtoxm, vol should claim, I believe he is at l-2 again.

[PyroDwarf]

time for me to

unvote

I agree with some of the others when they say we are reaching diminishing returns. Vol says he considers claiming as "any last words".

Vote: vollkan

I am assuming that scum has alreasdy slipped their vote on him, so that would mean bio, mrfixij or OP. Or i could be wrong, wich is equally as likley.
I agree with Xtoxm's post 520.
I don't know if vollkan flipping town will be a guaranteed Bio lynch, but that will probably be where a lot of people start looking. Bio has already said, he is just voting for his top suspect, what else should we do on day one, wait for some to slip up and claim scum?

[PyroDwarf]

i didnt mean for it to come out like that. I didn't like vol's repeated "i dont need to claim" attitude. I can see if he was like a doctor, but why not just claim 'nilla town so people drop it?Also, i forget who, i think rhinox, brought up a good point that bio, is highest on his scum list, after the two masons.

[PyroDwarf]

I still think pyro is scum also. Look at the weak chainsaw he put on me and then the vote switch to vollkan last minute when momentum was shifting back towards lynching him.

Now that I have confirmation of my suspicions on vollkan, I will try to find any possible pairings to help for tomorrow.

it cant be that i'm getting tired of having walls of text everywhere i look or having d1 suspicions streched to their breaking...
I wouldnt be suprised if niether of you were the doc...

[PyroDwarf]

i think i've seen a townie counter claim some one they were sure was scum before... or did i dream it?
So if vol turs up doc, is bio insta lynch?

[PyroDwarf]

unvote

incase he isnt lying

[PyroDwarf]

this is exciting. i think this is the most enjoyment i've gotten from a mafia game. hopefully the night treats us kindly.

vote:vollkan

hopefully you are not the doc, probly arent, but if he is i say bio dies.

[PyroDwarf]

I still don't like Pyro. Between being doc and the aggression on Pyro at the last second, Bio was the ideal NK for scum pyro.

vote pyro

ummm claiming doc would draw a scum anybody nk anyways....
I don't see how that can be linked to me at all.
Yeah he was looking at me, but so were you.
Anyways, I thought OP may have been SK, but looks like rhinox was.
If RBT was a mason, would it have shown in his death scene?

[PyroDwarf]

Why are you questioning this? He confirmed the claim was real, and has now be revealed as town.

Are you implying that you think i'm Volkan's buddy?

not at all, i was just wondering why it didnt say mason.
I think mrfixij is trying to play up the accusations of himself and bio into a mislynch today. Repitition =/= reality.

[PyroDwarf]

I've had a minor scum gut on EA too, but I'm not nearly as sure of it as I am of pyro. Everything that he's playing doesn't add up to anything but scum, especially the late term vollkan bus. I was against him all of D1, and he was agreed to be our second lynch IIRC.

Agreed to be our second lynch? Looks like you are seeing someone that doesn't agree with you and you want to use a previous "commitment" to get your way.

[PyroDwarf]

you are the one saying I should be lynched because it was "agreed upon" on day one! Semantics...

VOTE COUNT:

Erratus Apathos -1: Xtoxm
Pyrodwarf - 1: mrfixij

Not voting: Scheherazade, Rhinox, curiouskarmadog, orangepenguin, bionicchop2, PyroDwarf, , Erratus Apathos, vollkan, G-Force

With 8 alive, it takes 5 votes for a lynch.

[PyroDwarf]

I'm not trying to squabble with im. He just basically ends every post with "pyro is scum".
Thats fine if that is your opinion, but what makes me scum? Lets get some examples of what I have done. Obviously, at least two people dissagree with you.
I have to go now, but I'll be back in a few, probly with a look at Sche, EA, and CKD.

[PyroDwarf]

okay, we understand you think I'm scum. Telling people to vote for me when they wont be able to remove their vote? What happend to providing arguments for your case and such? I know that tunnel vision =/= scum, but when does the methods used by the "tunnler" move from "narrow sighted townie" into "scum with a good chance of myslynch".
I'm sure you won't drop my wagon untill some one comes out and says "i am scum".
That or some one got a guilty cop investigation last night.

I won't bore you with my individual reads on people, honestly I'm thinking CKD, but I don't want to pick on some one that isnt going to be here for a week.
I'll give mrfixij the bennifit of the doubt, and avoid omgus, but i dont like how he is trying to get my wagon going.

[PyroDwarf]

lol. you have the best argument, I almost want to vote for myself...

[PyroDwarf]

If he thought I was more scummy than CKD, he would have voted for me.
i belive you are trying to play up suspicions from Bio and you yourself into my lynch today. For the time being, I will belive that you are just tunnel visioned on me.
If ckd is also scummy, why not go after him? You might get some support, as EA is already voting him and xtoxm voiced some minor concern about him.
@OP: What made me one of your choices?

[PyroDwarf]

Well, there are a few reasons. There are a few people on vacation, and they can't vote. That and, despite your sound arguments and logical reasoning, there are a few people that don't find me as scummy as you do.
Maybe take this slowdown in activity to read thru the game and maybe see who your number two scum is? You said you would be alright wiith CKD. EA forms a pretty solid case, I think.
Then again, EA could be trying to take the suspicion of Xtoxm from himself and move it onto CKD. But... IDK ATM I'm still leaning twords CKD, but I want to see his rebuttal to EA.

[PyroDwarf]

The above is a WIFOM game from scum.

what? from what I understand of WIFOM, I don't think I am guilty of it.
Is it because I suggest that EA may just be trying to get suspicion off himself by building a case on CKD?

[PyroDwarf]

... you do realize that at least three people are on V/LA.
And Happy Thanksgiving!

[PyroDwarf]

I'm just waiting for people to start posting again.
Curious to see ckd's responce to EA case against him.

[PyroDwarf]

CKD, my initial read was that you were plainshight lurking, but your posting really got better. I was not inclined to lynch some one based off of the meta of a bad player, but he showed his true colors with his fake claim.

Despite my hesitation to lynch vollkan, the sheer fact that regardless of my target, I had my vote on scum is good enough in my eyes.

I'm not sure what you are trying to say here.

I admit, my logic that I've been posting to back a pyro lynch isn't great.

read: nonexistant. What is your case from yesterday? Post 360, where you call me on something that you did yourself,(wich got called out by g-force) It seems to me that your case against me is based on my reaction to the mason claim.

[PyroDwarf]

i see. i guess it didnt make sence because it is a fallacious statement.

[PyroDwarf]

I don't see where ckd is expressly against a vol lynch, I just see him pressing vol to claim. There is a post in there where he says he doesn't like a vol lynch based on meta. I getting pretty comfortable with the idea of a CKD lynch. It seemd like he was trying to defend vol, cautious townie, or nervious scum?
If you are so sure I am scum, maybe try giving reasons that you think I am.

[PyroDwarf]

vote: CKD

for a solid case from EA.

[PyroDwarf]

well, dang. I was thinking of counter claiming or something, but that wouldn't really help me. I was thinking of calling mrfixiji's sanity into question, but figured I'd still be lynched.

So...yeah...sorry about your barn.

The scum was me a bg/vol, so it should be game over with my lynch.
any helpful advice or constructive critisizim is appreciated.

[PyroDwarf]

Thats what i was thinking too, I mean we had a roleblocker, maybe that was supposed to even it out? Sucks that yall' hit our RB and the SK N1.
1V.mafia and 1Mafia RB
1sk
1vig
1cop
1doc
2masons
4townie?
Maybe there is another pair of scum? Or a "back-up" SK? Is there such a thing?

[PyroDwarf]

DPE:
Any tips on scum hunting in general, I'm still pretty noob when it comes to that. Town and scum advice welcome.

[PyroDwarf]

There's generally two ways to scumhunt, and it all comes down to personal playing style.

Proactive: You take gambits, you start prodding around and you do it a LOT. You read over every post twice. Anything that seems remotely off you bring up. You take notes on every person's stance whenever it's said. And then when you find a big shift (IE, EA's case on CKD), you lay down a monster case. The big problem with this approach is that you are often accused of having tunnel vision or jumping focus, and it puts you in the limelight. It's very effective at keeping everyone on their toes though.

Passive: You let other people do most of the talking for you. Meanwhile, you're still taking notes and looking for slipups. However, you don't try to pry open scum, you wait for them to mess up without you causing it and then strike. It's easier for a scum to do this, but you also remain more under the radar usually. This is a better way to not be obvtown and avoid getting NK'd.

But if you use the passive style, is it not also likely that you will be accused of not scum hunting? In one of my first games, I found my self agreeing with another player and once I had said that a few times, it was brought up in a case against me.

[PyroDwarf]

wow sche probably should have been replaced. I shoulda called him out to buy some time.
Any thought on if I could have pulled off calling mrfixij insane or parinoid?
OH BTW, if the game doesn't end when I die, lynch him.
Seriously he better not be lying about being the cop.

[PyroDwarf]

no, if i were VT, I would be calling him parinoid, insane, scum etc. I would still get lynched, im sure, but once I flipped town, what would ya'll do?
I'm worried that he is so caught up in his own tunnel vision that he claimed cop just to get my lynched. I didn't see an out for meyself that lead to me winning, even if I convinced people that he was insane, or counterclaimed. the way i figured it was: I counter claim and people belive me (yay!) mrfixij is lynched-flips town, OP nk's someone(EA), mafia nk's some one(op). that still leaves me and 3 townies. With mrfixij flipped as not scum, i have a big bullsey on my head.
If i call his sanity into question and people belive me, we lynch some one(CKD)-flips town, op-nk's some one(EA), mafia nk's some one(Mrfix). that still leaves me with 3 townies AND a vig.
Either way, I saw a noose at the end of the tunnel and didnt really want to trag it out further then neccicary.

[PyroDwarf]

LOL, jester FTW.

[PyroDwarf]

yeah, but would claiming miller have helped me more than calling you parinoid/insane?

[PyroDwarf]

Well, GG ya'll.