Mini 767: Cubic Mafia (Game Over!)

[Trumpet of Doom]

/confirm

[Trumpet of Doom]

Yeah, except I'm (probably) not daykilling you this time.

[Trumpet of Doom]

Vote: RBT

. He knows why. If he doesn't...

(Dude, we should make a tradition of random-voting each other.)

[Trumpet of Doom]

/prodded.

Vote: RBT

. He knows why. If he doesn't...

(Dude, we should make a tradition of random-voting each other.)

Because you're stalking me, or because I have a habit of getting killed early?

I'm not

intentionally

stalking you...

at least 4 of us can vouch that Magnus is always this....eager.

3 of us. Remember, Magnus was dead by the time I replaced in, so I didn't bother to read him terribly in-depth. (Come to think of it, I'd guess RBT didn't either.)

How about saying something startling and waking yourself up?

From what I've heard, that tends to backfire and get you quicklynched.

RBT lurks as town (or he did in that URoE game that five of us were in at some point or another), and I don't know how he plays as scum. I guess I'll

unvote,

but I don't immediately see any better suspects.

[Trumpet of Doom]

Along similar lines, I will have multiple band-related events through the end of the weekend; if you don't see me posting, that's probably why. (High school band in Texas = lots of work, especially with contest season approaching fast. Add in that I'm in another band that's taking a trip to Louisiana this weekend, and... yeah.) I will have content after Sunday, though.

[Trumpet of Doom]

I'm back, I'll reread and post more probably tomorrow.

[Trumpet of Doom]

Trumpet of Doom-35%-Lurking, I'm sure he has a reason... Quell est votre raison, mon ami?

In a word, band. I've had concerts each of the last three days, and yesterday's and today's were out-of-state, a good ways into Louisiana. So, naturally, I've had lots of rehearsals for each, plus my homework. (Speaking of which, I should be working on that instead of this... )

I think I also tend to be a "sit back, let things happen and analyze from a distance"-style player early on in games, and especially with wall-o-texters such as yourselves. Not that I really have anything to back that up with, of course: Of my two completed games that I was in from the start, one was Killing Verse, where everyone was heavily post-restricted, where I was speedlynched D1, and where a lot of my posting was trying to defend myself against an overblown "case" on me; and the other was Rebels in the Palace, where I was trying to do number-crunching by hand for most of D1.

Basically, I tend to post more if I think I know what I'm doing, which doesn't happen much until late in the game.

[Trumpet of Doom]

All right, I've reread. Comments:

Re: magnus/Nocmen: Nocmen's not great, but it seems to have been cleared up.

Walnut seems to have been trying to get B_B and magnus suspicious of each other, then not been happy when it didn't work. For that matter, he's been trying to make individual players suspicious of each other for much of the game, including apparently trying to make Nocmen look at RBT.

Phily... I'm rereading the (now finished) game where we were both town to see if I can get a read on him relative to how he's playing here. Seems about the same, so probably a nulltell.

RBT is lurking almost as much as I've been.

Re: magnus/Dourgrim: ...why do I feel like you're both going to flip town?

For reasons stated above, I feel most comfortable with a

Vote: Walnut

right now.

[Trumpet of Doom]

Yes, I'm lurking ungodly amounts. Yes, I still have Internet. Yes, I'm trying to follow the game. No, the walls of text aren't making it easier. Yes, band is going to be a long-term thing, and I'm not really sure when it's going to end.

Hmm... on second thought, Phily is acting a bit differently. My experience with him comes from this game. He mainly talked about one player D1 (speculated that the guy could be a jester), claimed to be suspicious of numerous people throughout the game (though D1, it was primarily in relation to the player who ended up being the D1 lynch), and self-voted, leading to his own lynch. Here, he's really only shown suspicion of two players (Magnus, B_B). I'm not sure if it's enough of a difference to warrant a statement that "OMGOMG HE'S ACTING DIFFERENTLY HE MUST BE SCUM", though.

[Trumpet of Doom]

As for thinking about philly might be a mislynch, its because both trumpet and BB suggested a meta... but Trumpet has changed his mind.

Not really, no. Or at least, that wasn't really the impression I meant to convey. What I meant to say was that while I'm not sure he's doing exactly the same things he did, the overall quality of his play is about the same. Nothing's obviously different. (Other than the lurking, but I'm guilty of that too, and my physics project won't help.)

[Trumpet of Doom]

Thirdly, less lurking from everyone today plz. Seraphim, finished reading yet?

Trumpet, we haven't heard from you in a while either.

"...and the Understatement of the Week Award goes to caf19!"

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I've been notPosting, I get it. I'll try to be better about that. No guarantees, though, what with major testing starting tomorrow. (Speaking of which, I really oughta go to bed now.)

I think it would be beneficial to see what role provided these kills. Reason being I'd rather lynch something scum or a serial killer rather than something like a vig.

Well, if you look at the kill flavor... I mean, I think it's pretty obvious what roles killed which players.

Waiting to hear what B_B has to say before I really make a move.

[Trumpet of Doom]

...well, then.

Vote: Isacc.

Two reasons:

1) Isacc's claim does not preclude the existence of another player who targeted Magnus. Even if he's telling the truth, "B_B=scum" is a non sequitur.

2) If B_B's lying, he's got some serious cojones. Especially since he claimed first, and we should be nowhere near lylo - there is no good reason for scum to claim unprovoked at this point.

[Trumpet of Doom]

...whoa there.

madeofphail goes from this:

Why bring power roles into scumhunting this early? You're helping out power roles early in the game!

to this:

I may be new, but when it gets down to it, the way I see it is that a night action is an action nonetheless, and thus can be used as evidence, just like any other statements or actions.

in 7 posts, with no posting in between to support this change in position. First he says he doesn't want to use PR info to scumhunt, then he says he does...

HoS: madeofphail.

Congratulations, you've just jumped to #2 on my scumlist.

[Trumpet of Doom]

Hi KoC.

First order of business:

vote: madeofphail.

See post 400 for why. I was willing to give Phily a meta defense because I've played with him before; madeofphail has no such protection.

All right, so my killing role guesses based on flavor were off. Nocmen is almost certainly the one who killed RBT (check out post 382 for a potential breadcrumb).

Looking at Isacc in isolation doesn't turn up too much, as so much of his posting (particularly end of D1) is "crap, senior year of high school is killing me" or concerned with players who are now dead (Walnut, Magnus, Nocmen). Of the rest, the most he's said about anyone has been about Phily, now madeofphail, and it's generally (a) not been appreciative and (b) when Phily was under suspicion from other directions. Could be construed as a bus attempt; even if it's not, it's not making me unvote unless there's an obvious reason (e.g., cop claim).

[Trumpet of Doom]

...whoa there.

madeofphail goes from this:

Why bring power roles into scumhunting this early? You're helping out power roles early in the game!

to this:

I may be new, but when it gets down to it, the way I see it is that a night action is an action nonetheless, and thus can be used as evidence, just like any other statements or actions.

in 7 posts, with no posting in between to support this change in position. First he says he doesn't want to use PR info to scumhunt, then he says he does...

HoS: madeofphail.

Congratulations, you've just jumped to #2 on my scumlist.

This kinda feels like misrepresentation, because phail looks like he's talking about night actions rather than outing power roles in his second post.

I don't really see the difference, as to me, the one leads directly to the other (as in, how would we find out night actions unless PRs claim?).

You don't have a read on me because I don't want you to.

...whaat?

How is this at all pro-town? If you're town, wouldn't you

want

players to be able to get a read on you so that they can tell you're town?

Re: SSK: Meh, he's not great (for reasons pointed out by caf19, KoC and Seraphim, and maybe other players as well), but there are scummier players out there. I'm gonna say there's at least one scum, and quite possibly two, in the set {madeofphail, Seraphim, MafiaSSK}. I'm voting one; I'd vote the others as well if I could.

[Trumpet of Doom]

Sorry, that sound y'all heard was the sound of a million neurons exploding at once. Seraphim was shooting towards being the scummiest player in the game for a variety of reasons, and he's now mod-confirmed town... my brain hurts.

While I'm thinking about it:

Eventually, no one will be able to read my meta at all.

Am I seeing what I think I'm seeing here? You plan to accomplish this by... lowering your town play to the level of your scum play? Really?

That seems counterproductive and counterintuitive, especially in light of your going after of SSK for using an argument based on

his

playstyle. You're setting yourself up for increased suspicion 100% of the time so that you can use the ~70% of the time you'd statistically expect to be town as a defense for the ~30% of the time you'd statistically expect to be scum? Please tell me I'm not the only one who sees issues with this.

Meh, there's more I want to say, but I gotta sleep. (Music Theory AP in the morning... yeah...)

[Trumpet of Doom]

it would hardly have hurt to wait more than five minutes for the rest of the town (BB, phail, Trumpet) to say whether or not they wanted Sera to claim.

If I'd been able to get on pre-claim, I would absolutely have asked for it. Hell, I would have voted him if I could have.

madeofphail's 420 is not good.

No meta constitutes a defense. In my personal belief, a person's play style should not be brought into a case as evidence, because someone could establish a near-invincible meta.

Which is why man invented the policy lynch: For those players who don't help when they're town, and it's hard to get them lynched when they're scum because their play is just as bad when they're town.

if you thought I was scum, you should have voted me earlier.

Did you miss the part where I said I thought you were the second-scummiest player in the game?

If we can find kill patterns (mafia or serial killer or otherwise), we can have more accurate protects if there is a doc. By discussing the kill patterns, we help the doc. and possibly force the scum to kill someone else to break the pattern, so it can also help the town to confuse the mafia by constricting their nightkills by making it seem more and more likely that certain people will be protected. This will pressure the scum.

This just makes my head spin. Does someone want to try to make sense out of this?

I still think madeofphail's the best lynch, but as second choices go, SSK seems reasonable.

[Trumpet of Doom]

I still think madeofphail's the best lynch, but as second choices go, SSK seems reasonable.

If I'm the best lynch, why not vote me?

First order of business:

vote: madeofphail.

it sounds like you're almost willing to vote for someone just because everyone else is....but, you don't seem to be willing to drop the hammer on what you think is a reasonable lynch.

Nonononono. See, as of now, I'd prefer your lynch today. If it becomes obvious that that's not going to happen, SSK is my second choice.

See below.

If you were scum, I would see this as a couple of ways. You would either be fencesitting, trying to distance yourself from the vote in the case of a mislynch, or not wanting to drop the hammer on a fellow scum.

If you were town: maybe you have some sort of power role that lets you investigate, and you know ssk is a mislynch, and so don't want to hammer him.

In any case, by not wanting to hammer someone that you see as a reasonable lynch, you seem to display knowledge that the rest of us don't possess.

Remind me to talk about these three paragraphs when the game's over.

Good God, SSK. Your actions with regards to Seraphim are beyond insane. Are you seriously still voting Seraphim because

he could be a role which could communicate through the mod and have the mod post whatever he wanted

? And now you're defending yourself by saying it

Could be a fakeclaim given

? My God, man, this is even worse than my play in Musical Mafia, as evidenced by this post:

Basically, we're found a bunch of hoofprints, and we've concluded that they were made by horses. And you,

ToD

SSK, are exclaiming, "But they could be zebras!" Yes, they could be zebra, but Occam's razor applies here. You'd probably lynch you too if you were in our shoes.

You're rapidly rising on my scumdar, SSK. I'm very tempted to hammer you. Claim or die, please.

[Trumpet of Doom]

madeofphail's looking a bit more town to me.

Unvote.

I think our main disagreements at this point have to do more with theory than with this game itself.

All right, let's go through this player by player:

Seraphim: confirmed town.
B_B: mostly confirmed.
caf19: town vibes.
KoC: neutral.
madeofphail: neutral, borderline scummy.
SSK: Whether or not this is how he always plays, it's reaching the point where I can't put up with it. God, he's worse than zwet about short posts... at least with zwet, you can tell that there is, in fact, a thought process going on.

Oh, hell with it.

Vote: MafiaSSK

for L-1.

[Trumpet of Doom]

...why did I not see this earlier?

Okay, everyone, let's look back at Isacc's 394. He tells us to look at madeofphail, caf19, and SSK. I forget exactly where I heard this, but I remember hearing that one in three is a good benchmark for scum in a scum player's scum list, so that means there's probably one scum in the set {

SSK,

caf, madeofphail}. Upon reread, I can kinda see a cafscum case, and I'm not sure what I was thinking saying madeofphail was looking more town in post 500, so either of them could still be scum; probably not both, though, as I think Isacc's a smart enough player not to bus both his scumbuddies as he's going down.

But assuming a three-person scumteam, that means there also must be one scum in the set {B_B, KoC, me}. It's probably not B_B, and I know it's not me, so:

Vote: Knight of Cydonia
IGMEOY: caf19, madeofphail

[Trumpet of Doom]

Hold up, ToD. It's (presumably) LyLo.

With you so far.

You shouldn't be voting right now, imo.

I sort of agree, but I can't see any way for KoC not to be scum. Here's my logic:

These are all the possible scumteams currently alive:

• ToD-B_B
  ToD-caf
  ToD-madeofphail
  ToD-KoC
  B_B-caf
  B_B-madeofphail
  B_B-KoC
  caf-madeofphail
  caf-KoC
  madeofphail-KoC

Now, assuming that in 394, Isacc cast aspersions on one of his scumbuddies but not the other, this actually rules out four pairings (I forgot to mention B_B when listing the players Isacc slammed): B_B-caf, B_B-madeofphail, caf-madeofphail, and ToD-KoC. The revised list looks like this:

• ToD-B_B
  ToD-caf
  ToD-madeofphail
  B_B-KoC
  caf-KoC
  madeofphail-KoC

Essentially, for KoC to be town, I must be scum. And I'm not.

Massclaim anyone?

Sure. I want KoC to go first if we do.

However, before we do that, there was something I said I wanted to talk about after the game, but I think I need to point it out now rather than later. It's in madeofphail's 468:

If you were scum, I would see this as a couple of ways. You would either be fencesitting, trying to distance yourself from the vote in the case of a mislynch, or not wanting to drop the hammer on a fellow scum.

If you were town: maybe you have some sort of power role that lets you investigate, and you know ssk is a mislynch, and so don't want to hammer him.

In any case, by not wanting to hammer someone that you see as a reasonable lynch, you seem to display knowledge that the rest of us don't possess.

Role speculation much? This sounds like he's saying I might be a cop if I'm town. Bad madeofphail. And what's even worse is that earlier, in 420, he says about his D2 play that he "wasn't trying to commit roleouting." Well, he was in 468.

This is about where I stand on everyone at this point: (scummiest at top)
1. KoC
2. madeofphail
3. caf19
4. B_B
5. ToD

[Trumpet of Doom]

I am roleouting, in a fashion. If scum counts as a role. I apologize for not making this clearer as I am not helping by remaining this vague.

by suggesting that you have info that we don't I was suggesting that you have a power that some of us don't. If you're town that would be role outing. But you could just as easily be scum in my eyes. If you were scum, it would only be natural for you to know who's townie and who's not.

If I were scum, then yes, I would have known that SSK was town. However, if I were town, then scum could have taken your post, said, "hmm, this guy might be an unprotected power role. Let's kill him!" and taken me out.

Furthermore, a role out would only help find scum at this point because it seems to me like all of the town power roles have already been outed.

*headdesk* This game is the reason I added a line to my sig. More on this after the massclaim (which it sounds like you support).

Obviously I am not helping anyone by remaining vague

Funny, I have somewhat opposite experiences. See D6 of Suzumiya Haruhi Mafia for an example.

I would be happy to answer any more questions.

Ah, what the hell, it can't hurt:

Are you scum?
If not, who do you think is scum and why?
Whom would you like to see lynched today?
Whom would you like to start the massclaim?

[Trumpet of Doom]

Ah, what the hell, it can't hurt:

Are you scum?
If not, who do you think is scum and why?
Whom would you like to see lynched today?
Whom would you like to start the massclaim?

1). even if I said I wasn't what would make you inclined to believe me? even if I was scum, what would I be suppossed to say? "ok, I'm scum, you got me?". that question won't yield any helpful clues, why bother asking that?

That's the expected response, and the worst-case scenario if I asked (that I'd get nothing out of it, hence the "it can't hurt" that you so nicely quoted). I was crossing my fingers that if you were, you'd slip up or say something that I could use to catch you.

2).on who is scum, although I agree that KoC has been acting oddly, but I want to see what he makes of today before any votes are placed, because as caf stated we could be at lylo right now, and voting wantonly could provide a very bad result. I would suggest unvoting, because if there are two scum then with one vote on someone on a three to lynch day means that as soon as one person votes a townie, the suppossed two scum could jump on and quicklynch for win.

Oh, all right.

Unvote

, but KoC still draws an

HoS

.

4). When did I state that I would like a massclaim?

Well, you didn't outright say it, but the part in 509 where you said "a role out would only help find scum" sounded like support for the idea.

Like I stated before, I think that we've had all the pro-town power roles outed

FTR, I can think of a few different town PRs which might still be in the game. Again, I'll elaborate after massclaim.

a massclaim probably won't help much.

But it won't hurt any, if I'm reading this right. What I'm getting out of your posts (but this might just be me reading my own opinion into this) is that although there's not likely to be an upside to massclaim, there is no clear downside, so at worst we end up where we started and at best we might get something out of it.

The lack of any results whatsoever since Isaac means either B_B is scum using "blocked" in conjuction with a massive bus to get clear, or town. I'm leaning town, but not discounting all the possibilities.

/agree that there's a nonzero chance B_B is scum, I just think it's low.

made worries me in an indefinable way, which is almost more worrying that a suspicion I can nail down and say "this, this and this is really scummy".

As I've said before, I can get behind a madeofphail lynch. I think I'd prefer KoC for today, but madeofphail is my second choice.

Trumpet, why are you suddenly taking the 'one of three' rule as such gospel?

Here's the thing: I know from personal experience that trying to bus all of your remaining scumteam as you're going down is a bad idea, I've tried it myself. So (WIFOM alert) I don't believe Isacc would have gone after both his scumpartners in 394, meaning I think there's at most one scum among {caf, madeofphail, B_B}. I suppose that for the rest of you, it's conceivable that none of you three are scum, making a ToD-KoC scumteam; even so, that still means at least one of KoC or myself is scum.

I'm fine with a popcorn-style order, with KoC going first. Any objections?

None here.

[Trumpet of Doom]

I don't believe Isacc would have gone after both his scumpartners in 394

And yes, I do realize that's a bit of a leap of faith.

[Trumpet of Doom]

B_B, where are you getting "Isacc=GF" from?

And re: why he tried to slam both you and caf: We can argue reasons all day, and it won't be any more than WIFOM (well, maybe his scumpartners know, but why would they be so nice as to tell us what Isacc was going for?). For all we know, his reasons for casting aspersions on the two of you could be completely separate: he could have been, for instance, trying to get us to mislynch a (claimed) power role and then picking a few players who were doing things he could claim were scummy.

Incidentally, it seems to me that if Isacc was trying to protect the roleblocker, he would have

not

called attention to the RB's actions, making madeofphail/caf (pick your suspect)

less

likely to be RB. (Then again, I could simply have no idea what I'm talking about. Wouldn't be the first time, probably won't be the last.)

[Trumpet of Doom]

Two questions:

1) Whom did you protect N1?
2) Whom do you want to go next?

[Trumpet of Doom]

VT.

madeofphail, you're up.

[Trumpet of Doom]

Thank you, caf. And might I also point out that looking at Dourgrim's posts D1, I'm not seeing anything that would indicate "hey, look over here, I'm a roleblock target!"

OTOH, if KoC's scum, he knows how to fakeclaim.

I'm going to have plenty of time to think about this game tomorrow, I'll try to work up a solid analysis then. My main problem is that right now, none of you

really

look obvtown, and to varying degrees I could see a case to be made on any of you four.

[Trumpet of Doom]

All right, here we go.

Pre-massclaim, the roles I thought could still be in the setup were:
Jailkeeper (potentially bastard-mod and thinks he's a doc)
Doc (would require scum RB)
Cop (maybe; would require not only a scum RB, but all innocent results since he hasn't come forward with a guilty - potentially naive?)

More against KoC: In 513, he says:

Trumpet, I don't like your "Either I'm scum, or KoC is scum, therefore KoC is scum" argument. The fact that two scum haven't leapt on suggests that you're hoping some poor townie will also jump on, at which point your buddy hammers. Typical scum LyLo tactic.

Sounds like he's suspicious of me and thinks I'm scum, yes? But then in 529, he says:

I would be comfortable with lynching madeofphail or caf19, with caf19 being my preference.

What happened to his theory that I'm scum trying to get a townie to get on his lynch? And /agree with caf about "where did the caf suspicion come from all of a sudden?" I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say that the reason he doesn't like the argument I gave at the start of the day is because it's true.

Not to mention, if KoC and I were both town, this game would almost certainly be over unless scum didn't think they'd be on at the same time to pull off a quicklynch. I'd be very happy with a KoC lynch; I'll do my part to get us there.

Vote: Knight of Cydonia

.

Let's see, there was something else I said I would talk about post-massclaim... oh yeah. Here it is.

Furthermore, a role out would only help find scum at this point because it seems to me like all of the town power roles have already been outed.

*headdesk* This game is the reason I added a line to my sig. More on this after the massclaim (which it sounds like you support).

Feels to me like this could be scum trying to tell his partner either "just claim VT" or "if you fakeclaim a PR, you likely won't be counterclaimed." If town says this, scum will really think there aren't any PRs and they can claim one with impunity. If I can't get a KoC lynch, I can take a madeofphail lynch. (I believe I've posted my madeofphail case in various parts earlier; I can pull it all into one post if people need me to.)

[Trumpet of Doom]

The lack of any results whatsoever since Isaac means either B_B is scum using "blocked" in conjuction with a massive bus to get clear, or town. I'm leaning town, but not discounting all the possibilities.

I've been protecting Beyond_Birthday, but with the continued convenient lack of any results, I'm beginning to wonder.

I assume the "Roleblocker" picked me N1, but then moved onto B_B after Day 2. Forgive me for casting aspersions, B_B, but if I had held a "There's obviously a roleblocker" stance, eventually I'd have been asked to clarify that, and then the scum would have outed a PR for free.

It's called misdirection, B_B. I've already "talked my way out of it", as you put it. I didn't doubt your claim, and I did understand why you were still alive, because I was protecting you. I was hardly going to come out and say "Yeah, there's definitely a roleblocker, and I can totally see why B_B is still alive", now.

Something is really rubbing me the wrong way about these posts, and I'm not entirely sure what it is. One thing that's really sticking out at me (although I don't think it's the only thing wrong with KoC's play today) is:

I didn't doubt your claim

Bullshit. That's

exactly

what the quoted parts of 513 and 527 look like. 513 was the first post to cast aspersions on B_B, and while my 517 and caf's 520 could maybe,

maybe

be interpreted as suspicion, the only two posts all day that really sound like B_Bscum is a strong possibility have been yours. Either you're an

amazingly

good actor, or you're trying to cover yourself after screwing up - I highly suspect it's the latter.

Not necessarily scummy, but I feel a need to say something about it after having noticed it on a D4 reread:

made worries me in an indefinable way, which is almost more worrying that a suspicion I can nail down and say "this, this and this is really scummy".

Right, because nobody's posted evidence against madeofphail. Were you not paying attention to me for most of D3? [trumpetjock]How could you not have heard me and my reasons why madeofphail was scummy? [/trumpetjock] Again, I can try to consolidate my case on him if you ask.
(Explanation of joke tags: trumpet players are reputed to be egotistical, bordering on narcissistic.)

[Trumpet of Doom]

Right, because nobody's posted evidence against madeofphail. Were you not paying attention to me for most of D3?

Ummm... not really. I was V/LA for most of D3, so I missed a fair bit. I'd be grateful for the consolidation if you wouldn't mind.

Here we go...

...whoa there.

madeofphail goes from this:

Why bring power roles into scumhunting this early? You're helping out power roles early in the game!

to this:

I may be new, but when it gets down to it, the way I see it is that a night action is an action nonetheless, and thus can be used as evidence, just like any other statements or actions.

in 7 posts, with no posting in between to support this change in position. First he says he doesn't want to use PR info to scumhunt, then he says he does...

And actually, as caf mentioned in 414, there was a madeofphail post on the page before that I missed - 379 wanted PR info, so his postition on its use appeared to go "yes, no, yes".

madeofphail's 420 is not good.
*snip*

if you thought I was scum, you should have voted me earlier.

Did you miss the part where I said I thought you were the second-scummiest player in the game?

If we can find kill patterns (mafia or serial killer or otherwise), we can have more accurate protects if there is a doc. By discussing the kill patterns, we help the doc. and possibly force the scum to kill someone else to break the pattern, so it can also help the town to confuse the mafia by constricting their nightkills by making it seem more and more likely that certain people will be protected. This will pressure the scum.

This just makes my head spin. Does someone want to try to make sense out of this?

*snip* there was something I said I wanted to talk about after the game, but I think I need to point it out now rather than later. It's in madeofphail's 468:

If you were scum, I would see this as a couple of ways. You would either be fencesitting, trying to distance yourself from the vote in the case of a mislynch, or not wanting to drop the hammer on a fellow scum.

If you were town: maybe you have some sort of power role that lets you investigate, and you know ssk is a mislynch, and so don't want to hammer him.

In any case, by not wanting to hammer someone that you see as a reasonable lynch, you seem to display knowledge that the rest of us don't possess.

Role speculation much? This sounds like he's saying I might be a cop if I'm town. Bad madeofphail. And what's even worse is that earlier, in 420, he says about his D2 play that he "wasn't trying to commit roleouting." Well, he was in 468.

I am roleouting, in a fashion. If scum counts as a role. I apologize for not making this clearer as I am not helping by remaining this vague.

by suggesting that you have info that we don't I was suggesting that you have a power that some of us don't. If you're town that would be role outing. But you could just as easily be scum in my eyes. If you were scum, it would only be natural for you to know who's townie and who's not.

If I were scum, then yes, I would have known that SSK was town. However, if I were town, then scum could have taken your post, said, "hmm, this guy might be an unprotected power role. Let's kill him!" and taken me out. *snip*

*snip* Let's see, there was something else I said I would talk about post-massclaim... oh yeah. Here it is.

Furthermore, a role out would only help find scum at this point because it seems to me like all of the town power roles have already been outed.

*headdesk* This game is the reason I added a line to my sig. More on this after the massclaim (which it sounds like you support).

Feels to me like this could be scum trying to tell his partner either "just claim VT" or "if you fakeclaim a PR, you likely won't be counterclaimed." If town says this, scum will really think there aren't any PRs and they can claim one with impunity.

...that's all I have? I thought I'd posted more about it.

[Trumpet of Doom]

/bump.

madeofphail, what do you think? Do you agree with the suspicion of KoC? If not, who do you think is scum?

I would enjoy madeofphail's response.

Agreed.

Mod: can we get a prod on madeofphail?

[Trumpet of Doom]

I am getting depressed with the speed of this game.

QFT, and I've gotta leave on Sunday (sig edited to reflect that).

So since I have a vested interest in getting this over with, here's an idea: We get an idea of who thinks who is scum. If there's one player that three active players think are scum, we lynch them.

Here's what we know so far:
ToD says KoC and madeofphail are scum
KoC says madeofphail and caf are scum
B_B says KoC and caf are scum
madeofphail says KoC could be scum; however, he's also inactive
caf hasn't said who scum are

Or, to put it another way:
ToD (0)
B_B (0)
KoC (2 active) - ToD, B_B, (madeofphail)
caf (2) - KoC, B_B
madeofphail (2) - ToD, KoC
not stated: madeofphail x1, caf x2

caf, who do you think is scum?
madeofphail, if you ever show up, same thing.

[Trumpet of Doom]

Now let's see what we have:

ToD (0)
B_B (0)

KoC (3-4) - ToD, B_B, caf, (madeofphail)

caf (2) - KoC, B_B

madeofphail (3) - ToD, KoC, caf

I would be willing to lynch either KoC or madeofphail today; if I had to pick one, I'd slightly prefer KoC.

[Trumpet of Doom]

...so... instead of figuring out who's scum by who's acting scummiest, we figure out who's scum by who's least pro-town? Is that what I'm hearing?

If it is, I suppose we can try, but I think it's a somewhat roundabout method.

Also, madeofphail, what do you think of the massclaim?

[Trumpet of Doom]

KoC, how's the case coming?

[Trumpet of Doom]

My top suspects as of now are:
1). KOC (he hardly has any evidence to the contrary)

Great. What are we waiting for? Let's lynch him already!

2). Trumpet of Doom.

Really now? I mean, if I were you, I would have said KoC and caf.

Trumpet. seemed to be

very laid back

lurking

in the first

couple

day

s

of the game and only now has started to say alot in his posts.

Fixed for you. Happy to help.

I know I have been not very active in my posting, and for that I apologize. But when I posted earlier in the game, I said at least a good deal to work with. Trumpet didn't seem to have much substance in the beginning, but now hes very active. I'm not sure the reason why this is, but it makes me wary.

I feel like you're reaching here to come up with something you can accuse me of. (I notice you don't point out anything specific I've done that's incriminating. While the same could be said of me in regards to KoC, I have situational reasons that establish why from my POV, KoC can't not be scum.)

I'm not one of those players who can just make things happen D1, I need other people to get the ball rolling, generally including finding at least one scum that I can draw connections from. In KoC's case, the connections between Isacc and him (specifically, Isacc's post 394) are conspicuous by their absence - as explained previously, I think it almost certain that there was at least one scumpartner that Isacc didn't try to bus/distance/what-have-you in 394, I know it's not me, and KoC is the only other player left who wasn't mentioned. The only way for me to get around this is for someone else to do something that makes me think, "hang on, did he seriously just do that?" - as madeofphail did, which is why I HoS'ed him late D2 and voted him out of the gate D3.

[Trumpet of Doom]

Also, if for some reason people need another reason why KoC is scum: you remember the logic I used to vote KoC at the start of this game day? It's equally applicable in reverse, i.e. if KoC is town, I must be scum, and he could vote me and have no fear of scum jumping on to quicklynch a townie. He neither voted me with that reasoning nor tried to find fault with it. Not good.

One other thing I'd like to mention: If KoC is scum, caf is obvtown. Look at 513, then look at 529. Somehow caf shoots from not even worth a mention (i.e., most town) to the guy he most wants lynched, with no explanation. Hell, if KoC's scum, his scumpartner pretty much has to be madeofphail, as KoC has expressed suspicion of madeofphail in both of his posts today where he's named suspects, but in neither one was phail his top suspect. Looks to me like a way to say, "hey, I was suspicious of this guy, don't pretend I was ignoring him!"

On that note, I'm out.

[Trumpet of Doom]

Ok. I still haven't managed to get my notes together to post, but I do have this from Trumpet that he wanted me to post after the game ended:

Once I left, I was thinking about the game, and I realized that although madeofphail had done some really scummy stuff, caf had a lot of posts that just rubbed me the wrong way (I lost the first copy of this PM, which had several post numbers for examples; 515 is the only one I can be bothered to find now). If I had time right now, I'd take quotes from the posts. By the end of D4, I was and still am personally leaning caf as last scum.

caf19

, vanilla townie, survived

ChannelDelibird

madofphail

PhilyEc

, Mafia Roleblocker, lynched D5

...Really?

Trumpet, you had it nailed before! <_<

I was willing to hug trumpet before, but now my faith in him has diminished

And that, gentlemen, is what happens when I go for

three

now five weeks with no sounding board other than the inside of my own head and virtually no web access to make sure that my ideas make sense. Note to self for future reference: verbosity from caf19 != scumtell.

(Incidentally, since it seems there might have been a bit of confusion: My current V/LA is because I'm at a summer camp in Colorado. Not right at this moment, obv, but that's why I can't get on except as noted in the V/LA thread. For the two or three weeks before I left, I was online a

lot

.)