Mini 872: Mafia in Belgrove - That's All Folks

[walrus helmet]

Oh hey crypto. Symbol from the newbie game, right?

Random vote: guy0

Confirm already!

[walrus helmet]

vote: Walrus Helmet

Because I am the Walrus.

P.S Goo goo ga joob.

I love the Beatles but my username has nothing to do with the song, really.

Just a side note, as it's a personal pet peeve of mine...Kikuchyo didn't choose to lynch guy0, he chose to vote for guy0.

Personally I like 'vote' better simply because of what do you say when you retract your ballot? Unlynch?

Speaking of which

Unvote

.

Also yeah, Owen that was a really weird opening post.

[walrus helmet]

Say what you will about the RVS, I thought it was worthless, but in my previous game it led us to lynching mafia on day 1, so it was certainly valid there. Obviously if scum is playing intelligently then it won't reveal anything, and we shouldn't give too much emphasis on it, but it's another opportunity for scum to make mistakes out themselves. There's no reason you can't randomly vote AND ask questions.

1. How many games of mafia have you played?
2. Do you prefer Mafia or Town roles?
3. What is your favourite power role to have?
4. What is your opinion on crypto’s call for a wagon this early in the game?

This is my third game of mafia both on this site and in total. I've only played town so I guess that wins by default. I've never had a power role. I'm fairly certain crypto wasn't entirely serious. Even if he was, Owen's weird posting style isn't very pro-town.

Walrus Helmet post 31: Why the unvote?

Demonstrating my preferred style of unvoting.

[walrus helmet]

In my (limited) experience, vote switching looks shady on the surface, but only because no one understands what the heck you're doing. And any attempt to explain post-vote switch just looks like backpedaling. However, every time that I've seen rapid vote switching being used as a basis for a lynch it ended in a mislynch. Crypto got what he wanted for, anyway, with malpasp responding with an OMGUS, and de-lurking to do so.

Crypto: Are you purposefully trying to be antagonistic? I'm not trying to be insulting or accusatory, I'm honestly curious. In my first game someone was doing this as a way to draw out scum. The reason I suspect that you might be are your tactics (unjustified voting, calls for a bandwagon) and the tone of your posts.

If you are, have you done this before? Was it effective?

[walrus helmet]

Also off-topic aside to U.N. Owen: I just made the connection when I read your location. Is your username a reference to the Agatha Christie novel?

[walrus helmet]

Sorry for the non-activity this weekend. Time for a post-party tired post. Happy Halloween everyone.

Whoa, how did it go from this:

Ah, I see. Yeah, I'm still extremely tempted to vote Crypto, as I find his play very scummy, but I wanted to reward behavior which explains actions by unvoting to encourage others to explain their play as well. I try to play the game in an orderly and organized fashion, and I find players who don't explain themselves to be extremely hard to read. They also usually tend to be scum. Like I said, though...Crypto is still high on my list.

To this:

Ecto: I understand what a scummy statement is, but I feel that it's more important to tell the truth than to lie in an attempt to look "more town". Also, if you'll notice, Crypto is giving us more than enough to work with now - he's explaining his posts and reasoning, making logical criticisms of other players and is generally improving. Therefore, I consider my unvote to have achieved the desired effect - he has changed his actions in a way that is beneficial to the town. Honestly, the more I hear from him now, the less I'm suspecting him, since it seems that he actually does have a plan.

Now Crypto the Trick Pony is in line all thanks to your unvote, which came at a time when Crypto was high on your list and very scummy? First time I've heard anyone claim their unvote was a motivator to proper play...
You and Darkstrike hang out?

The kind of language that Ecto is pointing out in Netopalis' posts implies Neto is trying not to lynch his scum partner crypto, which is feasible until the crazy argument they are having now. Sorry but I doubt either of you are good enough actors to pull that off.

As for your argument, it's such a non-event, there's nothing inherently scummy about vote switching, it has to be in conjunction with something else. Like who you are switching from. It's clear that crypto was trying to scumhunt malpasp (too tired to check spelling on your names, sorry). If anything, crypto is setting Neto up for a lynch, because they are certainly the two most visible players right now. I'm hesitant to vote for either of them, I would be surprised to see scum being so visible and loud on day 1.

It
allows
scum
to
make
easy
cases
which
lead
to
mislynches.

Maybe it's my tired brain but I keep reading this over looking for a hidden message like the one Gov. Ahnold sent to the CA congress. "f u c k y o u"!

[walrus helmet]

And now Crypto decides to vote over an argument that belongs in MD. I concur with Neto's assessment that Crypto just kept hammering at this point excessively, to where I was about ready to tell him to stfu already about it.

Netopalis is the epitomy of the term 'dodgy' in that for every opinion he seems to make, he has a contradictory opinion or exception to the rule stashed away.
I don't buy that coming from a different site causes you to contradict yourself.

So it comes as no surprise that Crypto would be suspicious, but he continues beating the dead mafia theory question to death until Netopalis in frustration finally votes him again. Which gives me the distinct feeling that Crypto regreted his earlier unvote and so had to poke poke poke until he had something he felt would look good enough to the town for him to vote Netopalis again.

However, having a protracted exchange in this manner indicates to me that likely they are either both bad scum, or not both scum, and the latter is IMO far more likely.
So while neither looks good in their exchange, I can also not decide that neither looks bad as both being bad is unlikely.

Here's my suggestion Neto and Crypto, drop it. Just unvote and let's move along. We have a few others to investigate today as well and I don't think you deserve the spotlight. So get out of it and push somebody else in (don't care if it is me either, I'll drag someone else in too). However, I would suggest looking in the inactive stack first. I'm not in much need of a prod.

This is a much more eloquent and less infused with sleepiness version of my earlier post. To sum up: STFU both of you!


To create new topics of discussion:

JereIC: your first (random, I assume) vote was for Darkstrike_11 in post #12. Assuming your vote was originally random, have you kept the vote on Darkstrike because you believe he's scum, or just from momentum/laziness?

Malpascp: Your votes have always been shortly after someone else's vote for the same person.
Darkstrike_11 -> JereIC in post 12, malpascp in post 15
crypto -> Netopalis in post 64, malpascp in post 66

All of the votes have been almost completely unaccompanied by a post with content. Why?

[walrus helmet]

If I HAD to choose right now... malpascp. Speaking of which, has it been long enough for a prod?

[walrus helmet]

Sorry for the late response. But I thought it was interesting so I will bring it up from the dredges of page 8.

@walrus helmet

walrus helmet wrote:
Demonstrating my preferred style of unvoting.

Why did you feel the need to do so?

Also, what do you think of Kiku, Ecto, and Neto? (Awesomely intuitive nicknames, by the way.)

I don't have a good read on Kikuchiyo. Ectomancer I think is speaking too much like a lawyer (I think he mentioned he was a law student?) which makes me suspect that he's trying to hide behind a persona. Kind of like UN Owen was but more subtle and less obnoxious.

Netopalis came out of your exchange looking awful. But his main complaint against you is that you were badgering him with the same question(s). That reminded me that your first question about the non-event of unvoting was just a rephrase of a previous question, which has been answered. I was clearing my RVS vote, doing so while discussing word style. I didn't feel a "need", it was just convenient.

So I guess I can say that I feel where Netopalis is coming from when he thinks your scum.

[walrus helmet]

Certainly you are thinking of someone else as I've never even considered law as a profession (except breaking it maybe), and before you make accusations of 'hiding behind a persona', you should do a little meta work first. I only have 3500 posts that sound just the same.

Sorry, I confused early posts of yours with Netopalis. Going to re-read the beginning of the game today.

malpascp, are you intentionally posting little? We are asking you to post more frequently, with significantly more content in each post. Look at how everyone else's posts, they have ideas and discussions. Yours are barely a sentence. If you aren't posting anything of value then you're not playing the game, and if you're not playing the game then you need to be replaced.

[walrus helmet]

Also: Opportunistic much with Malpa?

What do you mean by this?

[walrus helmet]

-We're due for a replacement on afatchic.

-Walrus helmet hasn't voted since the RVS. I want your top 3 suspects and some kind of case on the top one, Walrus.

-JereIC, whom do you find scummy besides Gyro?

#1 Malpascp - I feel bad for suspecting him, because with so little to work with, it's pretty much a total crapshoot. It's his lack of participation that makes me believe he's hiding, and if he's hiding I tend to believe he's scum. Adding to this his bad reaction to earlier attempts at vote fishing and tendency to follow with his votes.

He is far and away the best candidate for a lynch day 1, but I would rather have him replaced. His behavior could also be applied to a power role, and it would majorly suck to lose a power role day 1. Time is growing short though so I can't afford to be cautious much longer.

and then in a distant tie for second place,
#2 crypto
#2 Netopalis

[walrus helmet]

And yes, Malpascp, "paragraphs" are indeed "needed" immediately. Get your ass in gear, sir.

I think Gyro is playing just fine. Then again, I've thought so all game, so I could be biased on this one.

Really don't like how Walrus has both Neto and myself in his top tier of suspects. He's provided very little in the way of supporting arguments and just listing off the two of us along with Malpascp (ultra-easy newbie lynch) is howlingly scummy. That's some heavy-duty bandwagoning. Not only that, but Walrus undermines his own endowment of Malpascp with Best Lynch Award by saying "his behavior could also be applied to a power role, and it would majorly suck to lose a power role day 1." The whole thing reads to me like "Don't look me when the newb lynch flips town!"

Ecto is making me itch.

Re: malpascp, I would rather see a replacement than a lynch. That's all I meant by that. I was just talking myself through my evaluation of malpascp.

This was Raskol's question to me:

-Walrus helmet hasn't voted since the RVS. I want your top 3 suspects and some kind of case on the top one, Walrus.

He specified "3 suspects" and "case on the top one", so I did just that. malpascp is the biggest standout of this game so he is #1 and I explained him. Ignoring him, the next two people who stand out as suspicious were you and netopalis. I don't believe I have enough evidence on either one of you so I declared a tie.

I'm posting my opinions, and questioning others. I might not be as aggressive as you'd like, crypto, but you set the bar pretty high as far as that goes.

[walrus helmet]

Walrus, it's not about aggression; I just feel like you're actively lurking and going with the flow too much.

Especially compared to your meta. In your two completed games you were much more proactive. Granted, they were newbie games, but it shouldn't have that much of an effect on your play style either way.

Unvote. Vote: walrus helmet.

Also, I'm bored.

Now I'm very confused. In my first game I was chastised, multiple times, for lurking or not posting enough. And I definitely went with the flow too much in my first game; if you actually read any of my first game you'd notice. I had no idea what I was doing. This is some weird flailing at nothing.

Reasons for FOS:

Neto: freaked out while you were badgering him, wishy-washy posts.

Crypto: Insanely aggressive, you keep prodding people, go after them pretty hard, and then switch to a new target completely. You're attempting to get so many different people lynched it's just causing confusion.

[walrus helmet]

Wow, lots of posts this saturday. Slowly working my way through them, I will take a break by responding to this post on page 13.

(Speaking of which, Wal, unethically cutting short N. 852 is coming back to bite me. Shoulda seen it coming.)

I'm a bit confused by this statement. You're referring to our previous game together, and probably to my displeasure as to the way it ended, but how is it coming back to bite you? And also, I thought you didn't believe it was unethical.

I (still) don't like Wally's reason for voting for me. I'm a little confused / ticked off by how I keep getting accused of racing toward lynches. I race toward pressure and wagons, which, yes

may

later on develop into lynches if I and everyone else think the target is misbehaving. But the only real wagon I've invested in was U.N. Owen, and that was brief and boring given that he stubbornly clung to his play style and then resorted to lurking. I pummeled Neto as hard as I could, but I'm baffled that people are seeing that as "attempting to get . . . [Netopalis] lynched" (WH). Maybe I think of gradations in urgency (pressure vote, suspicion vote, wagon, lynch, etc.) differently than other people, but I really don't see how I was racing toward quick lynches. But Neto and WH—and maybe others; I can't be bothered to fish through the iso. reads—have both accused me of trying for quick lynches. So. Hmm.

@

All

, survey:

1. Did I look like I was rushing for a lynch? If so, why? (Yes, these are absurdly simple. No, they are not trick questions.)

I think "rushing" connotes something that I don't think applies. It's the way you make an argument, show conviction for that argument, support that argument, etc with way more gusto than is appropriate for what little evidence you have.

[*]What do you think of Neto's and WH's reactions to my [call it what you will] play? Neto and Wally, obviously I'm not asking you to self-analyze, but please answer with regard to the other guy.

Netopalis did not react well. Although I would like to hear you answer this question yourself. What information have you gained from your various badgering?

[*]Irrelevant to the rest of this post, but bear with me: What do you think of the Malpascp wagon, given that it's more about getting rid of the detrimental/irresponsible/useless/whatever newbie who also has a good chance of being scum as opposed to getting rid of the scummy newbie who is remarkably detrimental/irresponsible/useless/whatever to the town? Good or bad idea for a day 1 lynch? Why?[/list]

In absence of any other option (It's looking like malpascp is the only person we could get a majority on today) I think it is a good idea. I don't really have a lot of experience with "policy lynches" but it sounds good to me.

[walrus helmet]

Of those on the Jester wagon, can someone post their reasons (aside from crypto)? I don't mean "why Jester over X Poster" I mean why you think Mr. Jester is scum. Is it just lurking? If you've posted them already and I'm an idiot feel free to quote them.

Preferably in a concise paragraph or two. Maybe this makes me a bad player but my brain can't handle monstrosities like Neto's big post.

[walrus helmet]

Man, I believe that xvart really had the flu. I've been sick since sunday night. I know a lot of people have it right now.

Also,

FOS

for Kikuchiyo and crypto. You two are quick to pass the buck for the mislynch onto the guy who hammered. It was pretty clear Jester was going to be lynched.

[walrus helmet]

Realized I've been on defense a lot more then trying to hunt scum. That's depressing..

I don't like statements like this. If you are actually trying to scum hunt more then do it, don't say it.

[walrus helmet]

Malpa: I'd really like to hear more from you than just that. Give us some reasoning and logic. Tell us who you suspect and why. I'm about this close to pushing for your lynch if you keep pressing on with your attempts to avoid replacement through sparse posting. Either replace or contribute.

Vote: Netopalis

You've been "this" close far too long.

[walrus helmet]

Ah, sure I guess. Neto seems to have ignored my accusations anyway.

Unvote

Vote: Malpascp

[walrus helmet]

xvart, you make some excellent points. This is indeed a very fast wagon. I also thought it was a strange admission for kikuchiyo to make regarding a "voting block". And it looks like crypto may have been coaching kikuchiyo during the night with his aggression techniques.

HOWEVER -- malp was my preferred vote on day 1. I want to see some serious pressure on the guy. Nothing so far has made him act.

[walrus helmet]

Interesting points on me xvart. I'd argue but it would just be the same old song and dance now wouldn't it?

I can however simply say although these accusations may make me seem like and look like scum I would just say that I disagree with these arguments. Some points I would attribute to laziness, apathy or just play to survive gameplay (which is scummy but I'll be honest).

Regardless of that fact your points are indeed strong and I even slap my own forehead for making myself seem that way especially since I am in fact town I assure everyone of that. Funny thing is none of this is intentional either, haha.

Anyway, like I said before I have been on the defense a lot, someone said that was scummy/pointless to point out. boo-hoo I'm going to say it anyway.

I made a post earlier today which gave my views on how to configure who's scum and who's not. Unfortunately for me the people I accused seem almost impossible to get a vote on. By the way the harder the person is to vote the more likely of scum, but that's just what I believe.

If it's gonna be either me or Malpa then either wouldn't be such a great investment since I have a gut feeling he may in fact be town, not 100% but I'm leaning towards town. A vote on anyone else seems near impossible at this point.

I am however considering jumping on this malpa wagon only because it will really tell a lot about the remaining players based on if he turns town or scum. And I obviously wouldn't just vote myself, considering I am town then might as well take my chances.

Keep your vote on me, xvart, I don't really give a shit but obviously don't hammer me while I'm not around like Jester I will definitely claim if need be, wouldn't necessarily matter to me anyway.

I'm really uncomfortable joining that malpa wagon. I don't trust neta or Kikuchiyo at all, and this whole vote seems shaky. xvart also I'm not a fan of either just based on how he wants to go about voting someone, it's all based on my previous post on those two groups.

What I'm gathering from this is:

* You agree that you act scummy ("I can however simply say although these accusations may make me seem like and look like scum I would just say that I disagree with these arguments. Some points I would attribute to laziness, apathy or just play to survive gameplay (which is scummy but I'll be honest).")

* You are voting malpascp even though you think he's town to prevent yourself from being the lynch target ("I am however considering jumping on this malpa wagon only because it will really tell a lot about the remaining players based on if he turns town or scum. And I obviously wouldn't just vote myself, considering I am town then might as well take my chances. ")

* You really don't care what happens.

This was full of red flags, out of nowhere, to boot.

If you agree "play to survive" gameplay is scummy, why do you do it? Do you value lasting until the end more than winning?

I am however considering jumping on this malpa wagon only because it will really tell a lot about the remaining players based on if he turns town or scum.

What would be revealed about those who voted for malpascp if he flips town? What about if he flips scum?

[walrus helmet]

Wow, this is a lot of activity. Catching up...

My thoughts:

* Lynching Gyro today is the wrong move
* We shouldn't direct Gyro's kill because of the possibility of blockers or mafia manipulation
* Raskol seems too entrenched in the Vig idea - he suggested it before Gyro's claim, and he's got plans for it as if HE'S the vig.
* In addition, Raskol had a minor OMGUS reaction in post # 589 to kikuchiyo

FOS:

Raskol

Unvote

I know this is a little weak, but I wanted to put my observations out there. Any thoughts?

Incredibly weak argument - it would only hold water if one of the people you mentioned flipped scum.

There are far too many arguments going around based on scumteams when we haven't even found one yet.

[walrus helmet]

Still really unnerved by Walrus.

Why, exactly?

[walrus helmet]

Just to confirm to avoid any xvart-esque situations...

Foilist has 4 votes on him now, correct?

[walrus helmet]

And Foilist: will you claim?

[walrus helmet]

EBWOP: noticed his vanilla claim above just now.

Vote: foilist13

[walrus helmet]

Once again doing catchup for all these posts.

My thoughts on the end of the day and the night:

I really don't like kikuchiyo's hammer. Felt like she was lying in wait for L-1. However I disagree about trying to shut up Rhinox. That's far fetched and relies on too many assumptions, I think it's much more plausible that she was just going for a quick hammer.

That said, let's do a no lynch today.

Divorced from suspicions and scum reads, this seems like the best statistical shot that we have.

Netopalis looks like town because I think the coincidence of his lurker lynch slant in this game with his MD thread about kicking lurker ass is legitimate.

Could you clarify this, please? Also, define "MD" (just as a definition for a clueless newbie).

Mega-FOS: kikuchiyo

(like, I wish I had two votes). WIFOM, my ass. Way to completely brush away 100% respectable accusations.

Neto brought up a wicked sick point about your hammer of Foilist. Earlier today I was thinking about the Rhinox night kill, and it was a

blatant

policy night kill—scum kill the pro-town replacement to ax out his point of view before he can unveil his reads in full. I hadn't connected it with your quick hammer, which also happened to ax out Rhinox's point of view. (Thanks for pointing it out, Neto.) Fits beautifully, no?

---

Netopalis, why do Gyro's posts look town to you.

---

Raskol, why Walrus Helmet?

Vote: Walrus Helmet.

Bang.

Why do you vote for me after wishing you had 2 votes for kikuchiyo? Netopalis asked you a similar question earlier but you didn't respond.

[walrus helmet]

Meh, wish we could have heard from walrus. He was just reading this forum and then he logged off without posting. He's not in any other games, either.

Hope havingfitz gets in here, at least. After those two have chimed in we should no lynch. I don't want to lynch anyone without another NK first.

(I expect to be yelled at for expecting him not to have a life.)

Sorry, I like to take my time when I read/write posts. Plus when I took a 30 minute break you guys practically filled up a whole nother page.

[walrus helmet]

So, in light of that, I'd like everyone's next post to be either a vote for no lynch or an explanation of why you oppose a no lynch. This should continue until no-lynch is at "L-1" and then we'll wait for havingfitz and walrus to say something before we "anti-hammer". That's what I'd like to see happen at this point.

Vote: no lynch

Statistically, the best shot.

[walrus helmet]

Re: Neto. Shrug.

2. Occam's Razor. Do we have any other evidence of a roleblocker? No. Do we have any evidence that supports his claim? No. Were we convinced enough before the claim that he should be lynched? Yes. Is his claim the main reason he was not lynched? Yes. Do we have any evidence that supports his claim? No.

No. This is real Occam's Razor. Did the town have a power role? Yes: jailer, and possibly vigilante. Do towns with (multiple) power roles usually have to deal with roleblockers? Yes. Would it be more complex to build a setup that follows a different philosophy? Yes. QED.

Unvote. Vote: walrus helmet.

(I expect to be yelled at for expecting him not to have a life.)

Sorry for the quadruple post.

Once again, you vote seemingly against your own argument.

[walrus helmet]

(Oh, and I really don't like Walrus' wagon on no-lynch, but I guess that's theory, so I'll just boohoo.)

Why? Today's vote is the easiest, by far. We are way more likely to hit scum with one less person in the way. What's not to like? This is a by the book logical decision. If you think no lynch is the wrong move then explain why.

RE: WALRUS HELMET

Yeah, I did ignore Netopalis. I remember seeing his question and being too lazy to respond. I voted for you because you've been my safe scum bet for some time now, even though I haven't had a case against you that would elevate you above a couple of other players in that respect. When I voted for you in that post where I mentioned wanting to vote for Kikuchiyo, I meant that I had a second vote so that I could vote for both of you at once. I wanted to (temporarily) expand the conversation to include you (as a potential interrogation target) without substantially distracting from the back-and-forth between Kiku and Raskol and the growing pile of crap around Gyro and all that. So I voted for you and counterbalanced it with a major FOS of Kiku.

If I'm a "safe scum bet for some time now" then why haven't you put any real pressure on me? I call BS on this. Claiming you've been suspicious the whole time is an attempt to make it look less like you're taking another shot in the dark. Every time you've voted for me that vote was taken away shortly when you got no support. You're just sticking your toes in the pool looking for a wagon.

[walrus helmet]

Unvote

Losing an unknown entity might have helped our odds but losing xvart (which seems the most likely scenario) will hurt us. Crypto's logic is sound.

Hypo-Cop:

N1: Netopalis, innocent
N2: xvart, innocent

[walrus helmet]

Losing an unknown entity might have helped our odds but losing xvart (which seems the most likely scenario) will hurt us. Crypto's logic is sound.

How does "losing xvart" hurt us?

A) You are assuming he is cop when there is no such evidence.

B) If scum think he's cop then he is dead regardless, even if we managed to lynch scum today.

C) If scum think he's cop and he's not cop, then the real cop could bust out more results tomorrow.

Did it just get really dense in this thread or what? Crypto's logic is terrible. WTF?

He's the closest we have to confirmed town. No one is going to vote for him. It doesn't help our odds of hitting scum if xvart is killed when he wasn't really being considered a possibility. And while there isn't concrete evidence of him being a cop, there is an implied comment, which is more than we can say for anyone else.

C is also true if we lynch scum today.

[walrus helmet]

Requesting a prod on havingfitz.

I hope this question turns out to be moot because we no lynch today, but Walrus, if we do lynch someone today, who should it be?

Kikuchiyo. Flailing, getting desperate. Scummy hammer on Day 2. Participated in both mislynches. She sees that she needs an alternate target so she is making comments about me, someone who apparently she had a town read on, likely because of your (Raskol) and crypto's repeated comments about how I'm your #1 lynch target.

[walrus helmet]

someone who apparently she had a town read on.

I

may

be cop and I

may

have investigated you for your lazy hop onto the day 2 mislynch.

Walrus: What are you afraid of? Extending the game only benefits town. If I am scum, then who are my partners?

Are you now claiming cop on your hypo-cop results? If so then why are you FOSing someone who is confirmed innocent on your hypo-cop results? You can't claim cop, point to your results, and then go AGAINST them. If this is not what you are doing then please explain.

My decision on who is scum will not get any easier after the NK. Scum will only need one town to vote on an innocent to be able to win tomorrow. I'd rather lynch the scum with a wagon on them NOW, rather than risk a wagon starting on an innocent and scum hammering.

[walrus helmet]

havingfitz, you completely missed the idiotic points of Raskol's earlier post.

No one has really even tried to

suggest

an alternate wagon. I really can't see the scum lying down that easily and sacrificing one of their own when there are plenty of other people they could have gone for today for the win---it's significant to me that no one outside myself or crypto has even mentioned walrus helmet, for example.

no one has suggested an alternate target even in passing. If she were scum she would have two partners, and honestly I can't find a single person (except me, when I pushed the no lynch) who has actively tried to do anything today that isn't lynch kikuchiyo.

The simplest explanation for this is that there isn't anyone in the game who knows that kikuchiyo is their ally---no one who is sure that her death would be bad for their team---and that can only suggest she's town. If she were scum, I would expect to see *some* kind of an attempt by *someone* to derail her wagon or push attention onto someone else. But no one has tried anything of the kind, not with a competing wagon, not with a defense, nothing. Whoever the scum are, they are happy with a kikuchiyo lynch, and I don't want to lynch someone scum is happy lynching, *especially* not in MyLo.

I separated your ridiculous post into three truncated parts to more easily understand why it is absurd.

You say there should be SOME kind of an attempt to save kikuchiyo if she is actually scum - In the post that you are trying to save kikuchiyo. You mention that she would have two partners, right after mentioning the only two people to suggest an alternate wagon.

Your logic is faulty. Bussing would be perfectly acceptable at this stage, when scum haven't lost anyone so far. All they have to do to win is for us to mislynch ONCE. And your other point, that she's scum because no one has defended her is proven wrong in your own post defending her.

[walrus helmet]

---Bussing is acceptable to scum at this point, but it's also unnecessary and hugely suboptimal. Bussing is usually done to give the remaining scumbags townie points on future days. However, today, if scum got a townie lynched there wouldn't

be

any future days, so it's in their best interests, without question, to get a tyownie lynched. However, no one has even tried (barring minor mention of yourself by myself and crypto) to do anything other than lynch kikuchiyo. Wha are the assumptions to make at that point? Either:

A) The scumteam is a bunch of lazy idiots.
B) Kikuchiyo is town and the scum are happy to lynch her for the win.

You say there are "plenty of other people they could have gone for today for the win". You mean like me? The person you have mentioned as who you really want to lynch whenever you push for a no lynch?

You're getting cocky now. Your defense of kikuchiyo is that "she is town because no one is defending her" while defending her. Your logic makes no sense. You're resorting to emotion as well.

[walrus helmet]

I would like to hear others' reactions to Raskol's post - specifically the one I divided into three quotes.

[walrus helmet]

(Black clouds roil. Crickets stop cricketing. The town lynches havingfitz.)

Honestly I'm still holding out hope that people would directly comment on what I believe to be the most interesting post of the game (Raskol's that I divided up) but no one seems interested.

[walrus helmet]

We're lynching either walrus helmet or nobody today.

Uh, what?

[walrus helmet]

Mod, I'll probably be V/LA for Thanksgiving, though I assume other people will be too. I can't remember if you already mentioned this or not.

Netopalis

Again, you're not even close to my top choices for scum. Note that the four suspects I keep bringing up—you, kikuchiyo, walrus helmet, and havingfitz—are

half the surviving player list

. They are everyone who's still alive excluding me, xvart, and xvart's supposed innocents. I'm assuming one mafia with three members for now because there have been too few kills for a two-man mafia

and

a serial killer (unless he no-killed or was blocked both nights), and if there were four scum the game would've ended already.

I really want to say walrus helmet, kikuchiyo, and havingfitz are the way to go, but I can conceive of being mistaken about walrus helmet and I see things from kikuchiyo that

might

mean she's town. As for havingfitz, I don't know. I'm still mulling over him and I have a hard time seeing him be town based on my meta of malpascp, but that meta has been pretty much ignored so whatever. My suspicion of walrus helmet isn't as self-contained. A lot of his posts rub me wrong, but then other posts swing the other way. The real key for me is that I don't like how widely he's been ignored. He addresses other players, but other players seem not to address him. Sure, he can't be scum buddies with nine out of twelve players, but his two teammates would make for a significant fraction of the overall player pool ... which is shrinking rapidly.

So there are a few possibilities too many for my liking. If we mislynch today, I won't forgive myself; the same can't be said of playing it safe with a no-lynch.

I have noticed that some other people seem to ignore my posts, which has been frustrating for me this whole game. I would much rather be scrutinized than have half my posts go unnoticed. But how do you justify sudden statements like "lynch walrus or no-lynch today" with
A) Kikuchiyo supposedly being your #1
B) "I can conceive of being mistaken about walrus helmet"

Finally, can you give me an example of a post that has "rubbed you wrong"?

[walrus helmet]

walrus helmet

, who's your favorite lynch target today? Who's your second favorite lynch target today?

Kikuchiyo; havingfitz.

[walrus helmet]

Just trying to understand your notes - besides your own suspicions, your conclusion is based on one night of results, which is "xvart performed no night action". Correct?

[walrus helmet]

Good game everyone. I had a lot of fun. It was certainly a journey! Thanks to Faraday for modding.

This was my first game as scum. What gave me away? I honestly didn't think the pressure was on me too hard, I thought crypto was fishing with his votes. Raskol I figured was really on to me from his repeated mentions but I didn't know why. I hadn't checked the game in over 24 hours when I was lynched so when I came back I had gone from practically no pressure on me to lynched.

I thought we were sunk Day 1 with malpascp, and with a defense by Neto, but everything worked out in the end.