Mini 872: Mafia in Belgrove - That's All Folks

[Darkstrike_11]

Hi everyone!

[Darkstrike_11]

no thanks, random voting is kinda silly

[Darkstrike_11]

I just don't really think random voting gets us anywhere. It is a substitute for discussion early game and it doesn't do a huge amount to generate discussion.

I a couple of games I have played we started by asking questions of each other instead of random voting. Questions like how many games of mafia have you played, do you prefer scum or town roles etc. I find it gets conversation rolling a lot faster.

Whereas random voting achieves next to nothing.

[Darkstrike_11]

Actually, random voting is meant to be a pro-town action. By random voting each player "randomly" commits to the "lynch" of another player. By doing so we all begin our "voting record" which later becomes one of the most tangible pieces of evidence that exists in the game of mafia. Whether or not the random voting stage is useful depends on many factors, however, scum have been known to give away partners or help confirm townies in the RVS in many games. Sometimes inexperienced or even experienced mafia will try to code messages in the RVS and later, after a confirmed scum flip, this information can prove to be invaluable. It is considered anti-town to not participate as if you later flip scum it leaves us that much less information to investigate. Townies should always submit to investigative processes. Does that make sense? That is at least how I have come to understand it.

But that is the very reason why the RVS is useless. There is no commitment to the lynch of another player. The scum know this, the town know this. The usual excuse for random bandwagons is because it “induces scumtells”. However in my experience it rarely does, since the scum KNOW that there isn’t real intent to lynch in a random vote. Its just randomly picking someone. (I am aware that it is fairly standard for the scum to play tricks in the RVS though). A random vote cannot be a tangible piece of evidence, for the intention to lynch was not wholeheartedly there. As for codes, I find RVS votes always end up just as pieces of WIFOM. How can anyone know if someone is giving a code or not until they say so?

I agree that everyone should submit to investigative processes, just not random voting.

If you do not approve of the RVS and instead prefer your described method of asking questions, why did you not propose it and instead allow the game to progress to the utterly predictable RVS?

This is your attempt at avoiding an RVS?

Hi Everyone!

I knew that someone would ask me to vote, then ask for an alternative. It generated discussion. It generated reactions. Both are useful. For instance your reaction tells me that you are aggressive in investigating people (an attribute I find very pro-town) and yet you are quick to find things which make your subject look as bad as possible (a less pro-town attribute)

Darkstrike's dislike of RVS is well documented. Case closed. I support lynching him for something else, though.

Something else?
Do tell

Checking through his previous games, I only found two in which he expressed an interest in doing the question route - Newbie 833 and Mini 834. Prior to that he did RVS, but got the question idea from Thesp in Newbie 792. I didn't see any posts where he expressed a dislike of RVS. And ecto's point remains - if he's a proponent of asking questions instead of RVS, why didn't he ask some questions?

Yeah Thesp inducted me in the way of questions and since then I have done so in every game. By the way I like your commitment to look through previous games, I can never find the motivation to do so!

Wagon on Owen, please.

Ahem….*in keira knightley’s voice* WHAT ARE THE CHARGES?

Seriously, reasons for why we should wagon?

Oooh questions, I nearly forgot. Although sufficient discussion has already been generated, could everyone answer these questions please?

1. How many games of mafia have you played?
2. Do you prefer Mafia or Town roles?
3. What is your favourite power role to have?
4. What is your opinion on crypto’s call for a wagon this early in the game?

[Darkstrike_11]

Darkstrike: Everyone has an opinion, I guess my issue with yours is that you simultaneously discredit the RVS while admitting that "it is fairly standard for the scum to play tricks in the RVS". It seems as though this argument may end up being circular, but it just seems a bit of a contradiction. Almost as if you are trying to stick to your guns, but agree with me as well. I don't think you can have it both ways. Also, my point is that the RVS is generally helpful in hindsight(after a flip). Not in and of itself.

I say the scum play tricks, as in they will vote for each other or something, but I still discredit the RVS. As in there is little to no chance of finding these “tricks” so the RVS doesn’t tell us anything. Even after a flip the RVS can’t really give good evidence. I’m not really being hypocritical here, so don’t paint me as such please
Like you said everyone has an opinion, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree

Also, I find this question to be extremely scummy. Information gathered from answers to such a question may help scum to extrapolate which players currently possess power roles.

Wow. I didn’t think that it could be seen this way. The intent wasn’t scummy, I can say that. I’m trying to gauge how people play and how they react to say, certain questions.

I think he was probably joking, and I'm lax to seriously attack someone over a joke.

Ahh I didn’t see that as a joke. I haven’t played with crypto before, so I didn’t recognise this!

Maybe its because NaNoWriMo is making me hyper aware of literary ploys that the grandiosity of Darkstrike's reply induced a mental groan as I read it. It's like pandering laced with haughtiness, and then at the end, "Oh yes, my questions, you may answer them". Ha

Wow. That’s really nice of you… are you always this welcoming and nice? I don’t think I said ‘you may answer them’ in such a patronising way. Nor did I mean for my post to be grandiose. Don’t just insult how I write, its not relevant to the game and it just hurts feelings.


I also just realised that I haven't answered my own questions!
1. About 5 or 6
2. I by far prefer mafia roles
3. I've never had a power role before, I guess it would be cool to be a cop and try to make the town aware of your investigations without revealing your role.
4. I didn't really like it, it seemed cold and sudden, without reasoning.

There we go, hope that wasn't too grandiose for all of you.

[Darkstrike_11]

Ahh the wounded feelings now.

please stop being so mean

Your continued elaboration on the virtues or otherwise of an RVS is mere fluff.

This comment is just a face saver:

I knew that someone would ask me to vote, then ask for an alternative. It generated discussion. It generated reactions. Both are useful.

How about, "I forgot", or "I hadn't had a chance to ask them yet" instead of lame excuses to make yourself look better?

Now, I can feel your feelings being hurt, so don't run off. Its not personal. My criticism has nothing to do with the style, its substance. The bottom line is, I need you telling a straight truth, not worrying about whether you look good or not. It means if you make a mistake, own up to it. Don't waste space trying to save face.


@crypto - if you see what I see would you believe Netapolis's offered defense to be pro-town or covering?

Your criticsim is all style. Your earlier comment was essentially "wow this guy is a pompous twat". You didn't focus on what I said, but how I said it.

Your second criticism is completely untrue. I knew when I wrote my first post that people would ask for a random vote, I knew that they would ask for an alternative method when I refused. I'm not wasting space, but telling the truth.

[Darkstrike_11]

4. What is your opinion on crypto’s call for a wagon this early in the game

It's a glowing triumph.

this made me giggle

Ahh I didn’t see that as a joke. I haven’t played with crypto before, so I didn’t recognise this!

4. I didn't really like it, it seemed cold and sudden, without reasoning.

So you change your mind and say I was joking (I wasn't, by the way), but then pin "cold," "sudden," and "without reasoning" on me?

[/quote]

I thought it was cold sudden and without reasoning, hence I wrote "seemed". However other people told me it was a joke, so I henceforth took it to be so. My answer to question 4 was my own view of the comment, not others view.

[Darkstrike_11]

Hi, sorry for the lack of activity, I'm crazy busy at university at the moment. I will try to get a post in by tonight.

btw Ectomancer, there were lots of genuine lurkers at that point in the game, why did you vote for me instead of the others like Gyro? Was it because I already have 2 votes and so it pushes the town nearer to a mislynch?
xx

[Darkstrike_11]

arg, work at uni is getting crazy and it isnt getting any easier in the next weeks.

I don't think I can do this game justice and give it the required attention.

mod: can I request a replacement please?