Mini 859 - Cleansing of Falls Church - Over

[don_johnson]

dj abides. reading. will post soon. don't expect anything blockbustery.

[don_johnson]

end of page 4:

DRK 93 and 94 are just terrible. no reason to defend bigbear, but it happens and its the "too scummy to be scum" fallacy.

a quick bandwagon does not leave an obvious target for a day 2 lynch. narrows choices down, but nothing would necessarily be obvious there.

oh.

unvote.

don't know why i'm voting nook yet.

any reasons for the votes on me?

[don_johnson]

]Interesting how you stuck 94 in there with no explanation

a quick bandwagon does not leave an obvious target for a day 2 lynch. narrows choices down, but nothing would necessarily be obvious there.

so yeah.

i'm on page 4. relax.

[don_johnson]

page 5:

looker is scumhunting. i guess there's a first for evrything.

103 is horrible, trerible, no good wifomic meta defense that essentially creates a circular pattern of knowledge confirmation. "bear is competent scum, so he wouldn't no lynch as scum, so he must be town, but if i think he's town and he's really scum then he's most certainly competent scum."

106 echoes my thoughts.

107 is way off. shrine distances from bear rather pedantically(is that a word?) points out obvious possible town motivations for bear's play. post reads more as fluff than anything.

108 *facepalm* looker: confid ran the wifom. not fc. not sure why you question one and not the other, especially when you question the one who implies bear might be scum after stating you want to vote for bear. good ol' looker! conclusion: coincidence? whatever.

109 leans more and more scum on shrine.

116 breath of fresh logic. i agree with the vote, but it is inexplained.

117 again: *facepalm* one self voter is enough.

cookie is a bit... spastic. no problem with an L-2 vote on shrine here. unfortunately for us it seems as though the resident jokers of ms have all been gathered together in one thread. at this point a random lynch seems like it might be the best idea. onward.

page 6:

shrine confirms he's scum.

vote: shrine

I don't see how WIFOM at this point in the game really helps the town.

then why did you self vote and then vote no lynch? claiming gambit in retrospect(i did it to spark discussion) is lame.

add bear to "willing to lynch" list.

The truth is, long and active day ones are very profitable, and me creating this type of discussion is priceless.

^^ yes and no. the price of wifomic self votes and no lynch discussion starters are more often than not trips down wifom lane that do nothing more than spam threads full of useless discussion that is better off taking place in a general theory forum as opposed to a game where players have to replace in and read through pages of crap about nothing.

129 is correct. cases without material to respond to are difficult to respond to.

add cookie to "willing to policy lynch" list.

DRK 131 is a bit non-sequitur. it seems as though shrine is who he finds scummier, but continues attack on farcry for defense of a "bad" vote? i am not following. feels like he should be jumping to shrine here but is choosing not to. filed for future reference.

132 is fail logic by cookie. no surprise there.

DRK now defends shrine. very odd. reads to me like: "lynch shrine, then lynch DRK regardless of the flip."

DRK echoes reasoning of "L-2 out of random stage is bad." fail logic. scum is scum. time is relative.

unvote, vote DRK

not voting shrine is okay, but defending him makes no sense.

139 comes out of the shadows attacking the "easiest" target. lots of quote, not many words...

peabody as well. ^^ read above comment.

if cookie is lynched it should be policy for anti-town behavior, but to imply it is scummy to keep a suspect wagon at L-2 seems counterproductive.

i like 145

i hope we have a vig and i hope its not cookie.

i like 148

i don't like 149. there is no "proper" way to play mafia. posts like this more often come from scum trying to look town. vote stays.

DRK
Shrine
Confid
all for independently scummy behavior.

cookie for policy.

end page 6.

[don_johnson]

none of bear's actions have me leaning town. so a neutral read would be most accurate as of page six. he is using anti-town tactics but has left nothing reliable in either direction at this time.

shrine's 125 reads as though he is trying to convince himself that he is town. i don't know how to better describe it, but he seems to entertain the idea he is scum. odd. realize that my opinions are dynamic as i am posting as i catch up. day 1 is never cut and dry. i have seen town players claim scum. what makes this game more difficult is the player list. very hard to read a bunch of jokers. i would be fine with some sort of policy lynch at deadline, but i am also not fully caught up and since we don't have a deadline that may not be necessary.

[don_johnson]

just finished fast and furious. should be able to catch up here in the next couple of days.

[don_johnson]

no worries here cookie. i am still trying to find time to catch up.

drk: seriously. i am trying to help by giving a running commentary while i catch up. i am voting you as of page 6. if we get to 26 and i am still voting you then by all means: defend yourself. until that point, just relax. is everyone just waiting on me?

i realize my predecessor didn't post much but there is little i can do about that. i will try again tomorrow.

[don_johnson]

@DJ
So you're saying I shouldn't defend myself from accusations against myself just because they're old accusations? No thanks. If you attack me, I'm going to defend myself.

whatever. enjoy yourself.

[don_johnson]

DJ, why did you have to replace BrotherNature? Couldn't you have replaced as town? I like playing games with you

because it was the slot available. i did replace as town. i like playing games with you too.

now quit distracting me.

[don_johnson]

wait... what's the case on DJ at the moment?

^^ good question. zazie laid out some issues, but unfortunately i don't think i can address them without crawling inside brothernatures head. though it seems as though there would be plenty of room, i just don't think its going to happen.

my clinicals just started and my time is dwindling fast. i should be able to keep up, but the initial catch up may be stalled a bit.

drk: it is omgus. there is nothing wrong with my recent votes. i think i fleshed out my reasons nicely. you seem overly concerned for someone at L-6. duly noted.

[don_johnson]

drk: it is omgus. there is nothing wrong with my recent votes.

Recent

posts

. As I said, it's more of a vibe than anything and has little to do with content. Something's just...different from when you replaced into Internal Struggle Mafia as town.

recent posts, recent votes. tomatoe, tomata.

i make a concerted effort to avoid consistency. all my games are different. don't call meta if you're not going to back it up. how many times did you rewrite the above post to decide on how to word your suspicions? "something's just different" is a broad and incohesive net to cast.

[don_johnson]

156 is contributory.

i don't like shrine's response and don't know why ec says "fair". i am thinking ec is one of those players who contributes "unknowingly" and so accepts labels such as "useless" for lack of better strategy. the flip side is that they are scum running distraction tactics. speaking of which: looker, do you have any other suspects?

nothing wrong with 159.

yes krer, the redskins suck.

peabody says fencesitting is a scumtell. i don't think its definitive, but not going to argue the point.

161 is wierd. there was no claim. pointing out a possible claim with the double, no triple question mark is scummy.

162 antsy town or scummy fluff. don't remember drk using the *asterisk* bit in our last game.

166 no real explanation as to why sanjay leaves confid here. bn must be lurking, but why the vote switch? there are other ways to ask players to participate.

169 *facepalm* sorry.

end page 7

i hate doing this btw. i feel like my suspicions are not going to be congruent with where i leave off. i will keep plugging a bit tonight. vote stays, mostly due to the huge reaction it got. for reference, sometimes when i replace in i only read particular sections of a game to determine my vote. i find isolation to be effective. anyhoo, back to reading...

[don_johnson]

180 drk scores points on FC observations. don't like the winking.

oh, okay. replacement. why hasn't anyone mentioned policy lynching? i realize sanjay switched his vote to stimulate a lurker, but he switched it with little follow up and switched it from a player whom he seemed to have a case against. noone has just come out and said, "hey, let's policy lynch someone!" odd.

bb comments on 131, rereading that post and i kind of see drk's point. however, i guess what grabs me second time around ins the mention of "scum slip" with little to no follow up. its fluffy. its like, "i'm just gonna add this in here to make it look like i'm genuinely scum hunting." i think scumslips should either be kept to yourself for future reference, or voted immediately and ridden hard.

186 is... reasonable.

187 first implication of jester i have seen. didn't someone mention recently that nook first brought it up? problem is, it is scummiest if ec is scum racking up votes and drk is partner trying to shake them off.

KoC: can you expand on the issue here? what is scummy about the conversation i am about to read? are there any highlights i should note?

188 looker = ethereal cookie i knew it couldn't last.

189 yeah, i guess i'd lynch cookie first. probably hard to notice lookers regression in real time. iso reads may be in order.

what's funny at this point is that the ec wagon has taken so long to develop.

nothing wrong with 193.

196 "i disagree with your opinion on ec's play but i'm voting him anyway." ?

[don_johnson]

Didn't really feel like anyone else was jumpin' on the bandwagon and I sort of lost my passion for it given Confid's responses.

There are other ways to get a player to participate, but nothing works quite as effectively as a nice, old-fashioned vote to the head.

Read faster.

did you ever follow up your investigation? bn chimed in and dropped out, confid started lurking, and you started doing...? i guess i'll find out.

[don_johnson]

211: wtf? the post is a giant bag of "hey guys, let's talk about things that are best not to talk about! but actually, we should talk about it and lynch the person we're talking about, but we really shouldn't because then that might negatively affect our scumhunting" not really following.

212 yes.

214 why is it scummy? poor form, but why scummy? good point about nk'ing jesters though. unfortunate problem is the potential waste of a nightkill. reality is that this is not a themed game and there shouldn't be a jester. why are we still talking about it?

215 "WASN'T ME! IT WAS NOOK!"

217 smell that? its fresh air.

221 protown thoughts.

224 looker scumhunting again.

end page 9

[don_johnson]

226 is horrible. ec has been acting a certain way all game and confid chimes in only to point out an extremely uber weak AtE.

229 seriously? now its getting scummy. if bringing up the possibility of there being a jester is "anti-town", why on earth did YOU BRING IT UP?

239 is regurgitated and obvious fluff.

done on page ten. no reason to change vote. confid is scummy independently, ec still by association with drkscum. ecscum may implicate lookerscum. drk still most obvious.

callin it a night.

mod: requesting one week deadline extension?

[don_johnson]

mod: requesting one week deadline extension?

what....? why? We still have 10 more days!

i am going to be extremely busy. keeping up is easy, catching up takes time.

[don_johnson]

i don't link:

a) because i don't know how.

b) if you notice, i am going page by page. go to the page i am currently on as per my post and you should be able to easily scroll down to the corresponding number. for reference, i was born before cell phones, so i am not afraid of a little manual labor.

so you think confid is "scummy seeming town"? do i have that right?

[don_johnson]

drk: the italicized bit was noting a possible change in your playstyle. the asterisk bit can often seem smug or arrogant. there are some players who utilize it more than others, but compared to your playstyle in the previous game i felt it may have been exhibiting overconfidence. i.e. you read as obvscum to me, but have most of the thread fooled at that point in the game.

You told me I shouldn't argue points you made against me because you're still reading. What do you think I should do instead if I disagree with something you say?

excellent question. perhaps you should make your best case against who you think is scum. as it stands, i am not sure i will be caught up by deadline. strategy wise, i know i am not the best lynch for the day, so if i can't get you strung up, i will have to settle on someone else. if that means reading our top suspects in iso and moving my vote then that''s what i'll do. as for what you should do, you must look within yourself for answers to questions such as that.

or you could accept that you are caught scum and take it like a man.

[don_johnson]

the asterisk bit can often seem smug or arrogant. there are some players who utilize it more than others, but compared to your playstyle in the previous game i felt it may have been exhibiting overconfidence. i.e. you read as obvscum to me, but have most of the thread fooled at that point in the game.

I used the asterisks more to explain why I wasn't posting as much content than anything else. I'm also not sure where you're going with this. I had most of the town fooled in the last game IIRC. Clearly, I didn't have ryan or IK fooled and I received some hostility from hiphop towards the end of Day 1 when I unvoted Jason, but I don't even remember making anyone else's scumlist during Day 1. Why would I be more confident in this game?

i'm not going anywhere with this. you brought it up. i never said you were more confident in this game. i never compared your confidence level to last game. i simply pointed out that the post read to me like overconfident scum. maybe i'm not choosing the right describer word, but that's how i see it. there is not much to argue here. i told you your best option(building a case on who you think is scum), but for some reason you want to continue talking to me. that's not going to get youy anywhere. i think you're scum.

[don_johnson]

i'm nowhere near caught up. don't recall saying i was. not sure what you mean in regards to my "case" against drk. i have spelled out my suspicions throughout my catch up posts. the post you refer to was the culmination of suspicions up to that point. not sure where i'll be as i go along here. if i get the time. clinicals are much more than i bargained for.

[don_johnson]

raskol: drk wasn't a big wagon until i started pushing. so whatever. your vote camping is noted. you accuse me of jumping a "big wagon", but you seem to be choosing from the three main wagons yourself. is there anyone else in this game you would care to comment on, or are you just trying to choose from the top three?

drk: not sure what you are asking me as it seems there may be questions hidden in those big fluffy posts of yours. i didn't bring up the asterisk bit besides merely noting it. you are choosing to argue about it. i never laid it out as a "reason" behind my vote on you. it is one of many observations i made in regards to your play this game.

[don_johnson]

just a post to update. one big test down, one more to go in the morning. i hope to catch up this weekend, however, the chance of me being fully caught up by deadline is slim. i am not afraid to ride a vote based on an incomplete read(wouldn't be the first time), but if you guys want me fully caught up i need an extension. that said: i will do my best this weekend so you can hold extension requests til monday.

furry: why me over CA? i haven't exactly followed your train of thought, but i remember you questioning my wagon upon entry to the thread.

[don_johnson]

raskol: if you are going to vote me for not catching up as fast as you then you may as well do so. i live a dynamic lifestyle and i don't like replacing out of games. i don't think people have to participate at the same level as everyone else in order to offer reads on themselves or to decipher reads on others. i once replaced into a game and only read the rvs in order to place my vote for the day. so whatever.

why is everyone in such a rush to end the day?

[don_johnson]

seem to be running out of time. i'm not going to try page by page analysis at this point, but rather a combination read/skim to the best i can.

raskol: i pointed out the reasons i am voting drk in my past posts. if you iso me you should be able to find them. its not a terribly strong case, but its day 1 and his posting stuck out the most to me. i will take a look at CA in iso. i don't think they can be scum together so i think either is a good candidate for day 1 and the wagons should be be telling. anyone not on a wagon by the end of the day should also be investigated thoroughly. not voting is anti-town, even if the lynch carries on a majority. wagons will provide less information.

[don_johnson]

post 313 supports the case against drk. his response to zazie's questioning as to why he didn't further question shrine's scumslip was basically castrating his own strategy. there is only reason to do so if you are under intense pressure or are trying to avoid looking suspicious.

319 does not clear up the scum slip AT ALL.

case against brothernature is bs. i am not going to defend his style, but asking someone "how is posting random shit and distracting the town a scum-tell" hugely discredits the statement which is explanatory in itself. it sounds like something an annoying four year old asks a parent. "how is talking back disrespectful?"

because it is. next question.

326: drk jumps the already silly wagon with no new input.

zaz's contribution is looking town as she seems to be thinking along the same lines as i read all of your responses. wierd.

350 explains the camping of the vote, unfortunately there is nothing i can do about that. bn's responses were indeed poor when zaz shines the light.

still disagree that the "behavior" is scummy. answers poor, but observations are not. whatever.

However, waiting is better in general.

^^ somewhat contradicts the case on bn, who is "waiting".

sanjay is looking worse with each post. maybe i missed confid's "decent defense".

Yes, but I was too lazy to take back my post.

^^ AtE

I generally see Appeal To Emotion as a scumtell.

interesting.

384 supports the "opposite alignemnt" theory of confid and drk. i think lynching between the two is a good idea. i find myself agreeing with confid's reasoning here and i don't have meta on him to see if this game is his usual posting style, which he claimed as his defense for his "lurking". i guess it could be "bussing", but i doubt it. however, that's just gut talkin'.

I know I'm sounding hypocritical here, but I have since made an effort to start contributing more. He really hasn't.

more AtE.

387 drk lies and wifom's it up.

"overreacting" seems to be getting pushed on drk here when it seems that all he actually

is

doing is reacting.

Yes, I'm stretching the issue because the reaction you gave me when I first brought up the point was very defensive, and you continue to overreact.

oh. there's the omgus accusation.

407 = good point.

halfway there. (18)

[don_johnson]

ik replaces out while camping his vote for the poorest of reasons.

503 is an excellent question.

interesting interpretation of drk/ca is that it is town vs. town. zaz, any reasoning behind this?

-His vote against Nook was bad, because he stated it was for pressure.

By stating it was for pressure, it loses the purpose of pressuring,

giving me the impression it's fake.

i personally agree with the bolded, however, i have had many discussions in many games as to its truth. players come down on both sides of the fence.

522 is a bit lacklustre compared to all of your previous content.

526 is better, but still open ended.

bigbear is making little sense at this point.

539 lol.

oh wow. i'm caught up.

drk
ca
bigbear
ik
shrine

happy with this lynch pool.

[don_johnson]

ebwop:

forgot ik replaced. change him with sanjay. KoC has done weller.
sanjay is a bit all over the place and seems to ask an abundance of silly questions. but whatever, drk/ca is my top choices and i'd put big bear third.

[don_johnson]

don: It's really not either necessary or helpful to post a summary of the entire game as you read it. We're capable of reading and don't need you to tell us what happened.

If you just read the thread all at once and then post your opinions, you'll avoid repeating yourself, catch up faster, and be better able to stick to relevant information. Just my 2 cents.

i base my catch up on the game. i've replaced before without even rereading. my player slot was under scrutiny(at L-2, i think) so it certainly wrranted some sincere catch up from me. i don't like the fact that you refer to my analysis as "summary". i infused my thoughts into most everything i commented on.

zazie is a tough read. if she's scum then she's really good. as much as i would like her to move her vote where it will be useful, i don't think voting at this stage away from the prominent wagons is going to benefit town. just my two cents.

[don_johnson]

whatever. do you think zaz is scum? if so, why?

and yes, you can move your vote back, but how do we know you will? if you don't think zaz is scum, then wouldn't simply asking her to post be enough?

do what you want, but if i am to move my vote anywhere i need more convincing.

[don_johnson]

agreed here. this game lacks vote counts.

mod: vote count please?

[don_johnson]

considering it seems as though zaz's focus is going to be on the giant pointless "jester" debate i would have to say i am more inclined to lynch her than before. voting brothernature for active lurking, riding the vote for over twenty pages and then admitting that you were actively lurking is a bit saucy. you don't seem all that out of the loop here and i wonder just how much "catching up" you really have. whatever.

[don_johnson]

considering it seems as though zaz's focus is going to be on the giant pointless "jester" debate i would have to say i am more inclined to lynch her than before. voting brothernature for active lurking, riding the vote for over twenty pages and then admitting that you were actively lurking is a bit saucy. you don't seem all that out of the loop here and i wonder just how much "catching up" you really have. whatever.

'Him'
Also, you need to look at what 'active lurking' means.

i prefer to think of you as a 'her'. i know what 'active lurking' means. if you want to argue semantics we can, but the point is made. you claim that you were 'actively' avoiding posting in this thread. you were aware enough of what was going on here that you chose to stay away instead of post. so yeah.

raskol: AtE much? seriously. relax.

mod: count the votes.

[don_johnson]

'Active lurking' = When posting, posting nothing of substance.
See BN's posts for good examples.

Also, no, I have missed a lot and have no idea what has happened in the last pages. I'm now at Page 28.
Why do you think otherwise?

you are asking questions pertaining to what has been happening. what pages are your questions derived from.

re: active lurking
semantics arguments go nowhere. your actions were anti-town at best. saying you are posting substance is no the same as actually posting substance. actively avoiding a thread is a degree of active lurking imo. not sure where you want this discussion to go, but i'd prefer you post what you need to and do it soon. deadline is near and town seems awfully divided. your recent actions have put you amongst the lynch candidates. so whatever. catch up.

[don_johnson]

am i winning?

[don_johnson]

okay. not sure what else to do. i like the drk vote and noone else seems to be putting together a case. please note that drk's votes have been almost entirely omgus this entire day. but whatever. someone said they thought those of us pushing the drk wagon should be trying harder or something, but i don't know what else i can do. i posted all my reasons for my read of him in my catch up posts. if its not going to be him, it shouldn't be me, so i am willing to move to CA or bigbear. i will be around tonight and tomorrow morning so let me know what you decide. i'm gonna go ahead and claim power now to help the process.

[don_johnson]

i'm winning the lynch race with 36 hours until deadline. i am just trying to help.

looker: why is it an either/or between me and drk? what about the recent events has you thinking this way? why are you voting KoC?

furry: waiting on your bullshit "i'm waiting to see one thing" bullshit. spew anytime.


oh shit. didn't see shrine is getting replaced. my bad.

mod: requesting deadline extension.

[don_johnson]

I believed you in our last game because you only had one vote and weren't scummy and therefore no reason to need to claim that (and because I was scum ).

you were scum in that game. that is why you believed me. end of story. why add in the other reasons? posts like this are why i think you are scum. you keep trying to cast a shade over what you are doing. your bn vote was an oppurtunistic wagon hop out of nowhere. i'm not "making a case". i'm not moving my vote because i don't see a better place for it. without an extension i stand to be lynched with three votes and there are most certainly better lynches out there than me, so yeah. tell me: who has made a good case? where would you like to see my vote and why?

[don_johnson]

I believed you in our last game because you only had one vote and weren't scummy

also: i was hella scummy. didn't i replace in, refuse to read the thread and ride a vote based solely on my reread of the RVS in a twenty page game? not scummy? really? REALLY?

*gets out of drivers seat, runs to rear of drk wagon and begins to push*

this just in: drk is confirmed scum.

[don_johnson]

Don, claiming power was just stupid. You have only three votes and at least one of those looked easy enough to convince to join another bandwagon. Meanwhile, there were other people who would only need one or two votes to surpass the number you've got. Claiming at this point was a bad idea, full stop.

However, now that you've softclaimed you need to fullclaim. You're screwed anyway, we might as well have the full info if we're going to make a decision on it.

^^ bad idea. i am in no way "screwed".

[don_johnson]

So let me get this straight---you're going to softclaim at L-4 and then refuse to fullclaim?

didn't refuse anything. just so happens that you're not the boss of me. i'll full claim only if necessary, the soft claim was to help give us some direction. i.e. lynch elsewhere.

Do you believe my vote was unwarranted? Also, do you still stand by your statement that my votes were OMGUS (if so, explain why) and if not, why did you belive so in the first place?

blah blah blah. change omgus to "omgussy", point still stands. hey, i have an idea, let's argue semantics with under 36 hours until deadline!

Then how do you expect to get more votes on me, considering we're the top two wagons? Or were you just hoping an empty PR claim would save you?

i would vote twice if i could. not necessarily looking to be saved, but hoping the softclaim would divert our attention to a better lynch. so if forced to answer then yeah, the second thing.

On yourself or one of your buddies, duh

nice deflection. say it with me now : "OMGUS!"

*throws confetti in air, does chicken dance*

[don_johnson]

also: i was hella scummy. didn't i replace in, refuse to read the thread and ride a vote based solely on my reread of the RVS in a twenty page game? not scummy? really? REALLY?

Not reading isn't a scum tell at all and considering we were near deadline, you actually played well and got decent reads from what was going on (of course, once the deadline was extended you should have read but IIRC your refusal to read came before that).

i was considered scummy by many players in the game until my claim, and even still after that. you had a town read on me for one reason and only one reason: you were scum.

blah blah blah. change omgus to "omgussy", point still stands. hey, i have an idea, let's argue semantics with under 36 hours until deadline!

This isn't the first time you've fallen back to saying people are arguing semantics when that's not what's going on. How were my votes "omgussy" and how is that different from OMGUS?

voting your attacker is "omgussy". between me and CA that is what you have been doing. arguing the "meaning" of a word is semantics. it is scummy more often than not, and anti-town at best. much like the argument about who "started" the jester conversation.

i would vote twice if i could. not necessarily looking to be saved, but hoping the softclaim would divert our attention to a better lynch. so if forced to answer then yeah, the second thing.

Didn't you say I would be the best lynch? You'd rather try claiming power to haphazardly move the wagon than try to actually convince people your number one suspect is scum?

i don't know if you are the best lynch, but i do know there are better day 1 lynches than myself. your play reads scum to me so my vote is on you. i am a power role, therefore if i am under threat of lynch then i should claim to push the wagon elsewhere. pretty standard fucking play.

Refusing to fullclaim is just stupid.

so let me get this straight:

softclaiming at L-4 in a game 36 hours from deadline where leading wagon gets lynched is stupid.

NOT fullclaiming is stupid as well.

in other words: you think dj is stupid, but rather than look at the other suspects worth lynching today, you would rather push the claimed town power role with just more than 24 hours until deadline.

is that right? do you think that you have a better chance at discovering whether or not i am telling the truth now, or after a full round of night actions?

drk: i asked you who your other suspects were. maybe not in so many words, but you choosing to take my question in the most literal sense and avoid naming names is a HUGE deflection.

[don_johnson]

drk: your persistence only clarifies you as scum to me. i made a case against you. i have consistently pointed out what i feel is scummy about your play. i am no longer discussing the difference between "omgus" and "omgussy". point stands: you have attacked your attackers.

full claiming gives scum information. without a conventional lynch happening, scum wouldn't have to go to any lengths of counterclaiming to secure my lynch, all they have to do is keep my wagon as the leader, so full claiming puts absolutely no pressure onto scum at this time.

sanjay: i understand what i am doing and i see no town benefit to a full claim at this time. it seems as though some players are dissappearing here at deadline and we should be coming to some sort of consensus on an alternate wagon. if its not drk then who?

KoC and furry both seemed to leave off with ambiguous statements and haven't chimed back in. clarification would be nice.

[don_johnson]

CA:what is scummy about soft-claiming? votes were not piling up. i was and am simply in the lead and will be lynched without a clear majority. without a conventional lynch process, that left me in a terrible spot. would you prefer that i wait and wait and wait and then claim right before deadline? then what?

PLEASE ANSWER: what benefit does a full claim offer town

at this time

?

[don_johnson]

cydonia seems to be lurking around deadline. raskol seems to be happy pushing the power role lynch, but doesn't want to seem to eager, and sanjay is acting the way a townie should when someone does what i have done. we are not looking at a conventional lynch and so claiming when i did was not scummy. asking for a completely unecessary full claim is just terrible logic.

nice that you picked up on the ad hom. easy way to play it off. "well, he was just so stupid! anybody would have lynched him."

if i had to choose out of the three aforementioned i would place the odds of them being in drk's mafia at:

raskol 64%
cydonia 48%
sanjay 12%

and for the record, those numbers are meaningless as i just made them up.

That should be "offer me at this time", but that's irrelevant.

no. what benefit does a full claim offer "town" at this time? i am not concerned about "me". but whatever. if anyone can answer the question that would be nice.

[don_johnson]

Note to self: those percentages are all multiples of 4; very scummy

what benefit does a full claim offer "town" at this time?

I'm not unvoting without a full-claim and is voting you largely for refusing to full claim. If you're actually a town PR, it could potentially get two votes off you near deadline. If you're scum, it locks you into a specific role and makes it harder for you to lie about it later.

the votes shouldn't be on me in the first place.

do you think this town is so incompetent as to be able to let me get away with "lieing about it later"? if i survive the night, at some point i will have to produce my results/targets. claiming now allows scum to manipulate town way more than not claiming.

if you find others scummy, why are you not moving the wagon? why are you tunneling on the claimed town power role instead of moving to your next suspect?

claiming generally puts pressure on scum to either get off the wagon or counterclaim to push it through. that is not going to happen here and so claiming does nothing to benefit town as regardless of my role, it is extremely easy to push my lynch through. i would rather be lynched without a claim at this point than give scum more information. they don't know if i am protective or investigative, therefore it creates a more wifomic scenario for their nk choice than if i full claim.

full claim benefits scum more than town under our current circumstances. i have little faith in the voters on my wagon as it is and until i get some support, or a claim request from players i think are town, then you can kiss my ass.

[don_johnson]

one more vote puts me out of reach.

i'm a cop. way to go geniuses.

[don_johnson]

Why were you reluctant to full-claim, don_johnson?

there was no need to full claim. scum has more information now than they did before. if they have a roleblocker i will for sure be blocked. without a full claim they would have had to take a gamble with their night actions. now they know a) i am not doc and b) i am cop. how is town in a better position now? we're not. i explained this already. the way this lynch is going down is anything but conventional. i.e. it only needs the most votes, not a prescribed majority. has i waited the night out and claimed tomorrow i would have had much better odds at getting results. the only way now is if mafia doesn't have a roleblocker or disruptive role.

breadcrumbs? no. i replaced in. i have never had a cop role and i don't know how i would breadcrumb it if i wanted to. i've breadcrumbed a couple times before in other games, but that was with non traditional roles in games i started from the beginning.

[don_johnson]

unvote, vote: bigbear

bb it is. looker, please switch.

[don_johnson]

this is bad. 3 out of four votes on my wagon are lurkers. one of them has been camping their vote for 30 pages with the initial accusation of "lurking" and very little follow-up. shrine is being replaced and CA is voting because i didn't full claim when asked even though i was only at L-4 and clearly explained why i didn't and since have.

they can't all be scum and there's no time left to switch wagons with any shred of hope for me to survive so i guess i'll just have to leave this game utterly shocked and appalled.

good luck guys.

[don_johnson]

ebwop: change to

[don_johnson]

to wifom it: what benefit does scumdj have to fakeclaim cop?

please note there is NO counterclaim.

please point to exactly what is "bs" about soft claiming power in my situation.

please note i am getting lynched without a clear majority, by at least 50% MAJOR lurkers, as uncounterclaimed cop.

what good did my fullclaim do for town? all it did was inform scum of the specifics of my power and allow them to simply sit back and watch this mislynch whether they are on my wagon or not. a conventional lynch would have demanded a counterclaim to push it through. in that situation i would have not softclaimed at L-4 and i would have most certainly claimed at L-1.

whatever. lynch your cop. have fun sifting through MINI 859- the falls church scummy lurkers anonymous weekly meeting.

[don_johnson]

Scum DJ could be trying to out a hypothetical cop by getting them to cc your claim right before he gets lynched. And if no cc happens, you will move into night. Then you could use wifom saying you didn't die because scum were thinking you'd be saved by a protection role, and use your now influential position to clear your buddies and lead lynches.

again: how stupid are you? i don't think a scum team has ever won a game of mafia with a fake cop claim on day 1 carrying through for the win. you are looking through a pinhole at this game. there may be much more we can do than simply accept my claim and results. i.e. night action results are not easily faked if roles such as vig/roleblocker/watcher/tracker/jailkeeper exist.

Soft claiming leaves a lot of options open for scum to work with, like others have pointed out. To clarify, you can easily full claim after you get a read later on about hwat role sare likely to be in the setup.

yes, but full claiming unecessarily as town gives scum information. again: night action results are not easily faked if roles such as vig/roleblocker/watcher/tracker/jailkeeper exist.

What good did your full claim do? None, because I'm fairly certain your scum, and lies hurt town.

if i'm scum and my full claim clarified that to you then i would have to disagree with this statement. just sayin'.

A regular cop in this setup really seems

a little top heavy

to me.

its day 1. what fucking set-up are you talking about? how can a regular cop in a twelve player game be anything other than normal?

i replaced in, breadcrumbs would not have helped unless brothernature had left them too. didn't read that way to me so i thought it best to just keep quiet. i am generally scummy enough not to draw nk's from scum. seriously.

[don_johnson]

ebwop: confid's quotes, not mine. quote fail.

[don_johnson]

sorry. wasn't really AtE but whatever, i see how you can see it that way. but if you actually look at the situation, the votes sitting on me are mostly by lurkers(now including looker) so for me to not have any real hope of getting out of this is justified. not really something to argue.

i don't like furry's fail vote. reads like a deliberate scum move, and coupled with his set-up speculation when we are in a 12 player mini with one role claimed i would certainly bring him onto the list of suspicion.

CA i am convinced is either scum or bad logic user. he has failed entirely in explaining how he applied the th standard "soft claim is scummy" approach to my softclaim when mine came under completely different circumstances than any normal type of lynch.

drk also seems to be playing it all fence sitty like. "oh i'll hammer" even though its completely unnecessary.

everyone else is lurking and only looker and sanjay are reading as town, but i don't really get looker's late vote switch turn lurky turkey.

zazier should be lynched next for the giant 30 page vote camp and hugely hypocritical case.

[don_johnson]

fuck it.

unvote, vote: zazier

[don_johnson]

w
o
w.

last time i claim cop.

[don_johnson]

good golly.

yeah. my role pm actually says serial killer. too bad, as i was hoping to turn over a new leaf and really give town a helping hand. oh well.

[don_johnson]

ebwop:

unvote, vote: don_johnson

dj out.

[don_johnson]

way to go scum!

sorry, drk, but it seemed to me that one of us was going down so i figured some distancing was necessary. i was hoping noone would put that together.

furry: great job coming in and taking charge of the scumteam both in thread and the qt. you guys played awesome!

looker: i was really worried that you had some super duper power role up your sleeve. well played until lylo. townies should never vote right away like that. i learned that one the hard way too.