Mini 880 - Mini Quick and Dirty - Game Over


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Post Post #516 (isolation #0) » Mon Dec 07, 2009 4:12 pm

Post by crypto »

Papa Zito wrote:I feel like I can read AGar at this point in my career...
Please expand.

Unvote: AGar. Vote: Zorblag.
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Post Post #518 (isolation #1) » Mon Dec 07, 2009 4:27 pm

Post by crypto »

Shush, you aren't Papa Zito. I'm asking him
how
he reads you.
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Post Post #519 (isolation #2) » Mon Dec 07, 2009 5:09 pm

Post by crypto »

The Troll vote is fun, but it really doesn't do my reads justice.

Unvote: Zorblag. Vote: AGar.
FOS: Zorblag.
Yay.

One of {AGar, ODDin, VP Baltar} should be lynched today for not being on the Sando wagon.
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Post Post #523 (isolation #3) » Tue Dec 08, 2009 3:48 am

Post by crypto »

VP Baltar wrote:
crypto wrote:One of {AGar, ODDin, VP Baltar} should be lynched today for not being on the Sando wagon.
:roll: Your noobness is showing, better tuck that in.
Nice to meet you, too, VP Baltar. My name's crypto and I'm proud to say that this game has officially gone into overdrive.

Interesting that you assume "noobness" instead of scumminess. If by "noobness" you mean inexperience, it's clear just from my join date and from the fact that this game requires at least two completed games that I'm not new to Mafia. If by "noobness" you simply mean idiocy/mediocrity ... same deal. Why are you so quick to distinguish my comment as idiotic rather than as scummy? Why jump to the "non-alignment-indicative idiocy/mediocrity" conclusion as opposed to the "scum pushing for a wagon on anyone from a set of three players while staying vague about his own reads so that he can give whichever potential wagon seems the most popular a boost for an easy mislynch" conclusion?



ODDin, I think "accusing" is too strong a word. It's just probability. If I don't have any confident scum reads, I'll carve out a smaller pool of suspects that I'm pretty sure I'll find at least one mafioso in, and then I'll reanalyze the players in that pool and vote for the scummiest.

I've completed three games that use the three-man mafia setup. Two times out of three, at least one mafioso has
not
been on the day 1 mislynch wagon. I scanned a handful of finished mini normals to make sure I wasn't kidding myself, and in most or all of the ones I looked at, not all scum were on the day 1 mislynch wagon. Maybe I'm wrong, but in the vast majority of games this seems to be the case.

Evidence with Free MetaEnd-of-the-day vote counts, all of which generated a mislynch. Mafiosi are red and boldfaced.

Mini 872
Mod wrote:xvart (1) [Ectomancer]
Mr.Jester (7) [Raskol,
Netapolis
, Crypto,foilist13, kiruchiyo, JereIC, xvart]

Not voting: (4) [
Walrus Helmet
, Mr. Jester,
Malpascp
,Gyro ]
Mini 865
Mod wrote:Hoopla (1) -- MrSuave
MrSuave (2) -- julienvonwolfe, MacavityLock
julienvonwolfe (7) --
iamausername
,
Torqez
, ErictheRed, Symbol, don_johnson,
Hoopla
, tubby216

Not Voting (2) -- Nuwen, xRECKONERx
This was the exception. It should be noted that we had to rush a wagon at the deadline in order to avoid a no-lynch, and that most townies were so lazy and the town performance overall was so lackluster that the mafia could've gotten away with murder (and they did). [shrug] It is what it is.

Mini 842
Mod wrote:Note: Votes are not in order.
...
Reckoner: (2) idiotking, LlamaFluff
...
Greendude: (6)
bigmc109
,
spyrex
, crypto, reckoner, benmage, MME
benmage: (1)
strangercoug

...
Unvoted: (2) llamafluff, greendude

Plurality on: Greendude



I didn't vote for AGar solely because of the scum-off-the-mislynch-wagon theory. I think he's scummy on an individual level. ODDin is suspicious to a lesser degree. I'm not sure what to make of VP yet. I'll have to reread.
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Post Post #530 (isolation #4) » Tue Dec 08, 2009 9:18 am

Post by crypto »

You guys are missing the point. It's easier (for me) to find one mafioso out of three than to find one or two or three out of six or seven.
ODDin wrote:Regarding crypto: there are the things you said on Raskol, and I agree with you on them. I admit to not seeing it myself, but when you pointed it out, you have a point.
Another issue is crypto's crap argument on the Sando wagon. I want to hear more from him to try to decide whether he was completely clueless or whether he was actually attempting to fabricate weird ass arguments.
Hmm, okay, I typically make it more than four posts before resorting to the usual methods, but whatever: You're an idiot. Stop being an idiot.
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Post Post #531 (isolation #5) » Tue Dec 08, 2009 9:19 am

Post by crypto »

PZ wrote:*blows into thumb*

What AGar said.
That's not good enough. Do you just get vague gut reads on AGar, or what?
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Post Post #532 (isolation #6) » Tue Dec 08, 2009 9:21 am

Post by crypto »

ODDin, you're voting for me because you think I'm "fabricat[ing] weird[-]ass arguments." Are you sure it isn't because suspicions of you? What are my weird-ass arguments?
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Post Post #533 (isolation #7) » Tue Dec 08, 2009 9:22 am

Post by crypto »

EBWOP: because I voted suspicion of you
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Post Post #534 (isolation #8) » Tue Dec 08, 2009 9:22 am

Post by crypto »

Fuck damn it, I am truly retarded. Voiced, not voted.
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Post Post #537 (isolation #9) » Tue Dec 08, 2009 12:28 pm

Post by crypto »

ODDin, what are your reads on AGar and VP Baltar?
ODDin wrote:It has no mathematical basis (the chances to hit scum randomly in each group are equal at best)
It's not about that. I trust my ability to hit one goon out of a pool of three players a lot more than my ability to hit one or two goons out of a pool of six or seven players.
it contradicts the logic of the game - not being on a towie wagon is not a scum tell, and if anything, it's a town tell
FOS: ODDin.
You know that's wrong. Oh, and I didn't call it a scum tell. I'm saying I find it very likely that there's scum among the three of you.
The game isn't large. Currently you only have to keep track of 8 people - even this isn't so hard.
I didn't say it was hard to keep track of eight people. I'm saying that typically it's easier to pick scum out of a small group than it is to pick scum out of a big group.
And even if it is difficult for you (seeing that you replaced in pretty close to the deadline), there are MUCH better ways to choose a group of people to focus on.
Wanna reveal those ways, O Mighty One?
Instead, you're making a really lame excuse as to why you're choosing a specific group of players to focus on.
You're still being moronic.
So, yes, I think you're making up bullshit reasons to vote and suspect people, which is scummy.
You just said that. Also, you're still being moronic. Also-also, I already said that wasn't the primary reason for my vote for AGar. Also-also-also, I didn't say I suspected any of those three players. I already told you "accusing" was too strong a word. Stop misrepresenting my posts and/or stop being a terrible reader.
Is my coming vote OMGUS? I'll let everybody else be the judge of that.
Why can't
I
be the judge of it? Anyway, yes, hopping off your super-awesome Troll/PZ soapbox to vote for me because you think I'm mathematically deficient and scum-hunting illogically is 100% OMGUS. It's especially delicious when you ignore Raskol all game and then suddenly claim to have had an epiphany about Baltar's points versus him.

:lol: I think this needs more emphasis. You go from finding my math/method flawed and stating indecision about whether or not I'm just a bad player to voting for me ... because you find my math/method flawed. And then you essentially admit that what you're doing may look like OMGUS, but you don't even bother arguing to the contrary. Wait a second. You didn't actually bring up any new info to support your vote, other than the fact that I'm adamant in my stance. ODDin, you've built a truly rock-solid case against me. I'm ashamed for having ever challenged you; you are clearly the superior scum hunter.


charlatan wrote:You're calling PZ out for not explaining reads, but apparently not expounding on them yourself, either.
Meh, I just want to know what he's seeing in AGar that makes him think AGar's town, and what sorts of things he's noticed AGar-scum do that AGar hasn't done here. I'm more interested in AGar than PZ at the moment.
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Post Post #539 (isolation #10) » Tue Dec 08, 2009 2:07 pm

Post by crypto »

No, I don't know it's wrong. Also, I said it isn't a scum tell, and you apparently aren't saying it's a scum tell either. So how is this wrong, exactly? Notice that I didn't say it's a town tell - though it might be under certain circumstances.
"If anything, it's a town tell" is
vastly
different from it's a town tell "under certain circumstances." (Yes, "If anything, it's a town tell" was my issue with what you said.)
I see that calling me a moron / idiot is a favourite defence tactic of yours. This is gonna get you places.
Well, I'm trying very hard not to actually call you a moron or an idiot and rely instead on adjectives, but yes. I know from experience.
The fact that you limit your search to 3 people
False. You're either (a) misconstructing what I said, (b) really bad at reading, or (c) unaware of what the word
search
means.
you aren't even accusing or calling scummy
False. Pretty clear I'm calling AGar scummy. I could have worded that better.
3 people who are the only people you're looking at at all.
False.
1) I unvoted PZ for reasons which had nothing to do with you. There was miscommunication between us, I didn't understand some of the things he was saying, the issue was clarified (thanks to OJ), I realised that in light of the clarification my vote on him as very weak, I unvoted.
Oh. When I entered the game you were just completely limbo and had no decent scum reads. My mistake. I understand now.
4) It does feel like you're OMGUSing me, however. Very much so.
Then you are chronologically challenged.
6) Still, it escapes me how voting you would help me if I were scum. For crying out loud, I'm the only one voting for you. I have more votes than you.
To discredit me? *shrug* I don't really care. I'm not interested in pursuing a case on you at the moment. If I did I assure you my case against you would be much more ... existent.



If you expect me to take you seriously, stop attacking my apparent inexperience (which is stupid anyway since I seem to have played more games than you have, Mr. Math Genius, and since experience doesn't matter one bit in the first place) and start attacking my apparent scumminess. Stop pulling stuff out of your ass while your at it.
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Post Post #542 (isolation #11) » Tue Dec 08, 2009 4:52 pm

Post by crypto »

And AGar's playing to his town meta?
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Post Post #548 (isolation #12) » Wed Dec 09, 2009 4:17 am

Post by crypto »

ODDin wrote:crypto - you're full of shit and you're contradicting yourself. If you're NOT limiting the scope of your scumhunting to only 3 people, then the whole thing with "it's easier to search for scum among 3 people than 6" loses its point.
I can examine all players and still focus on a small group. I'll certainly give a little more focus to that group when I'm short on time.
When I talked about you accusing people / calling them scummy, I obviously referred to the 3 people you mentioned as a group. You mentioned AGar separately, yes, but you included myself and VP in those who should be lynched.
No, I said
one
of you should be lynched. There's a significant difference. Again, stop twisting my words.
You only "accusation" of VP remains to this point that he wasn't on a townie wagon D1, and yet he's one of 3 people you believe should be lynched today.
It wasn't an accusation. And ... oh, copypasta. You just don't get it, do you? No, I said
one
of you should be lynched. There's a significant difference. Again, stop twisting my words.
Regarding chronology, you've begun accusing me much more severely and actively AFTER I expressed a desire to vote for you.
Sure. I accused you before and then voiced a stronger accusation after. Whatever floats your boat, ODDin.
Also,
crypto wrote:I'm not interested in pursuing a case on you at the moment. If I did I assure you my case against you would be much more ... existent.
So, you FoS me based on a nonexistent case?
I was unaware I need a case for a suspicion.
I'm attacking you for tunneling and inventing lame excuses for tunneling.
I'm not tunneling and I'm not inventing lame excuses. If this is all you still have to say then shut your fucking mouth because you're wasting your time and my energy.
While we're at it, have you read the game at all? You've barely said anything of substance regarding the entire game.
Yes, actually, I read/skimmed twenty-one pages in one night to replace into your precious fucking game, which you weren't even fucking participating in a week ago, with four days to your precious fucking deadline. I had zero reason to build a case on AGar when (a) he was already a popular lynch choice and (b) I wanted to walk the line between him and Zorblag as my top suspect before Zorblag posted his long-awaited analysis. If you really feel the need to make me, crypto, build a case on AGar, then I will, but I see zero motivation to do so.

Also, refer to my first post. No, wait, don't. You'll probably insist that I just flipped to a random page and quoted some random line to make it look like I was actively participating, despite my evident interest in AGar.
Are you, perhaps, just happy to argue with me with idiotic one liners that go nowhere hoping it'll make you look very active and then we'll forget you didn't bother with actually reading the game or commenting on real stuff?
See above. Also, ease up on the rhetoric. It makes my eyes bleed.
Also, I like 544 by Zorblag.
What about it?
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Post Post #557 (isolation #13) » Wed Dec 09, 2009 11:10 am

Post by crypto »

VP Baltar wrote:I really hate that you're saying "I don't have to contribute because the person I want to get lynched is already likely". I mean, if that's not a scum mentality, I don't know what is.

I want your case on Zorblag before he posted please.
VP Baltar wrote:So, what's your point? I don't have to probe anything about you to have a feeling about your play in this game. It's not like I'm pushing for your lynch without putting out a case. If I feel you have been scummy enough that I want you lynched, I'll bring a full case. Don't worry.

AGar wrote:I do now. Crypto.
Omgosh, crypto, you suck so much!
His general attitude since coming in has really rubbed me the wrong way.
lol
The information he is so confident in having just shouldn't be there. His assurances that scum are amongst myself, ODDin and VP isn't something I think he'd be so confident in without information.
*bangs face on keyboard till forehead splits* I posted my source of info. It's experiential. You're trying to construe it as me making an incredibly stupid scum slip, and that premise is incredibly ... well, stupid.
This highlights the bulk of what I want to address: how are you so sure that a scum player was on the wagon AND not on the wagon? How can you be sure that all three weren't on it, or that any of the three were? Got extra info for us?
Oh, so you think
all
scum were either on or off the Sando wagon?

Will try to get some AGar points up tonight. Sort of lacking in motivation at the moment.
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Post Post #559 (isolation #14) » Wed Dec 09, 2009 11:20 am

Post by crypto »

Yep. I'm trying to construe you that way. Damn right. Because it looks that way.
Go back and read. I was very clear about why I think what I think.
Uh, no. I was questioning your information and how you were so sure. Nice try though.
Again, go back and read. But if you agree with me that all three scum weren't either on or off the wagon, then why is it even a problem for you?
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Post Post #583 (isolation #15) » Thu Dec 10, 2009 8:54 am

Post by crypto »

Ojanen wrote:crypto, how would you compare that wagon to the Sando wagon in terms of deadline rush?
Much more rushed than the Sando wagon, IIRC.

Did you read the complete game before deciding to concentrate on the off-wagon voters btw?[/quote]
I've read some of it and skimmed the rest.

FOS: Papa Zito
for the AGar part of post 580. Not sure what to make of the flip-flop. Could be busing if AGar flips scum, but then I'd be disappointed if AGar didn't lynched, so ... meh.

I do agree with PZ to a degree about ABR. Disagree about Ojanen.
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Post Post #584 (isolation #16) » Thu Dec 10, 2009 8:57 am

Post by crypto »

VP Baltar wrote:@crypto 557-the two posts you quoted from me do not show a difference of opinion in the least. As a replacement, especially into a suspicious slot, you have an obligation to prove your towniness to me. A case on alleged suspect Zorblag would help that. Get chopping or get lynched.
All right, Captain, here's my case:

Too many questions, too few stated suspicions. General bad feel to his style.

Satisfied? Wait, no, don't answer. Building a case versus not building a case on a player is not alignment-indicative, as far as I'm concerned, especially when I really am not interested in pursuing that player.
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Post Post #587 (isolation #17) » Thu Dec 10, 2009 9:11 am

Post by crypto »

VP wrote:Well, that's at least better than what you had before. Also, why do you insist on trying to insult every single person that questions you?
I didn't really think "Captain" was a serious insult.
PZ wrote:I just reread the thread. You really are playing a scum game atm.
I know you did. Reading the thread is not a town tell, PZ. Going from hardly mentioning or interacting with me to accusing me simply because I posted a
very
gentle/hesitant FOS of you (while still agreeing with some of what you said) has piqued my interest, though.
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Post Post #589 (isolation #18) » Thu Dec 10, 2009 9:17 am

Post by crypto »

*looks long and hard for accidental perverted wording*
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Post Post #596 (isolation #19) » Thu Dec 10, 2009 12:05 pm

Post by crypto »

You are scum because you only started posting content around 10 posts into your iso., because after that you still posted very little content, because you OMGUSed ekiM, because you OMGUSed me, because you played the newbie card, because your vote for ODDin was horrible ("Seemingly empty vote to start off a day"? – lol), because of your "You guys should be pressuring me more!" deal, because your spiel about how you found Sando suspicious even after his flip is a load of contrived BS, and because I don't believe your suspicion of ODDin computes with your newfound suspicion of me and general neglect of ODDin following iso. 29.

Oh, and I HIGHLY doubt you would've posted iso. 30 if you really think ODDin is scum.
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Post Post #604 (isolation #20) » Thu Dec 10, 2009 5:35 pm

Post by crypto »

charlatan wrote:We're looking at, what, 53 minutes left? Are we just gonna float quietly to the end of the day, or did anyone have anything to get out before the day ends?
Just this:

Image
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Post Post #606 (isolation #21) » Thu Dec 10, 2009 5:37 pm

Post by crypto »

/burp

I love posting that annoying thing.

Town

charlatan
Ojanen
ABR*
Scien*
ODDin*
VP Baltar
Zorblag
Papa Zito
AGar
Scum


* Really a mess.
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Post Post #609 (isolation #22) » Thu Dec 10, 2009 5:42 pm

Post by crypto »

Oh. Ha.

Town

charlatan
Ojanen
Scien
ABR
ODDin
Zorblag
VP Baltar
Papa Zito
AGar
Scum


I think that's more accurate, a little. I don't get what the big deal is with Scien. He seems pretty obv. town to me. The only thing I didn't like was his RVS beef with AGar.
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Post Post #615 (isolation #23) » Thu Dec 10, 2009 6:07 pm

Post by crypto »

Wait, WTF?

Really, charlatan?
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Post Post #624 (isolation #24) » Sun Dec 13, 2009 2:13 pm

Post by crypto »

BigBear wrote:
crypto no longer needs replaced :D
VP Baltar wrote:Yeah, crypto replacement...as if that slot wasn't hard enough to read as it is.
You lucky guy.
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Post Post #626 (isolation #25) » Sun Dec 13, 2009 3:25 pm

Post by crypto »

I'm rereading. I'll make some sort of case soon, but I have a theory that I'm toying with at the moment so . . . yeah. (zips lips)
VP Baltar wrote:I'm town
lol
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Post Post #627 (isolation #26) » Sun Dec 13, 2009 4:52 pm

Post by crypto »

That said, I feel a little guilty for the lack of instant gratification in the above post.

Scumtron 5000[0.2] charlatan
[0.2] Ojanen
[0.4] VP Baltar
[0.5] Scien
[0.5] Albert B. Rampage
[0.6] Zorblag
[0.6] Papa Zito

It sucks. I'm really not getting a gut feeling for this game. Hopefully I'll shit out something decent post-reread.

It still irks me how PZ said AGar wasn't playing like scum but then admitted he wasn't playing like town, either, after I badgered him over and over for specific reasons (which he didn't really give, IIRC) and proceeded to hop on the wagon. So for now—

Vote: Papa Zito.
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Post Post #639 (isolation #27) » Mon Dec 14, 2009 5:23 am

Post by crypto »

I'm fine with claiming, I guess. I understand my play's been
pretty
really lackluster so far. That said, I am a little pissed off—and a little disturbed and suspicious—that people want to dive right into claims without any discussion. You guys really have NO leads?

I claim the entire state of Vermont.

(Finally got around to printing out day 1. Rereading it whenever I get a few minutes.)

Scien, why do you want to vote me?
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Post Post #642 (isolation #28) » Mon Dec 14, 2009 5:32 am

Post by crypto »

Do you really want me to explain why I want you two to claim earlier rather than later?
No, the state of mind just irritates me.
I will ask one more question about the claim stuff. If we are only in Mylo, why claim a day early? If we have a power role, why take away a night of his? Really asking Zorblag here, since he suggested this stuff.
Should claim TODAY now that Troll's basically waved a flag over his head that says "PR."
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Post Post #681 (isolation #29) » Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:39 am

Post by crypto »

Ramp, your case on Scien?

And guys, hi, I already claimed.

I'm leaning toward having charlatan or ABR claim, due largely to ekiM and Amished. But I still want to finish my reread and get some stuff out of the way before we move forward.

Oh, and I'm not really a fan of mass claims, but I hate no-lynch at least as much. Whatever.
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Post Post #685 (isolation #30) » Mon Dec 14, 2009 10:01 am

Post by crypto »

The horror!

Unvote.
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Post Post #686 (isolation #31) » Mon Dec 14, 2009 10:02 am

Post by crypto »

And for all the chronologically challenged out there (PZ), I voted before I began my reread. Hint, hint.
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Post Post #694 (isolation #32) » Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:09 pm

Post by crypto »

Grr, I want to choose. I already claimed when VP was whining about it a page ago.
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Post Post #697 (isolation #33) » Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:27 pm

Post by crypto »

Er, Vermont = VT = Vanilla Townie.

But whatever, since you guys are insisting on blasting through this you might as well just go with VP.
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Post Post #712 (isolation #34) » Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:47 pm

Post by crypto »

Charlatan, did you breadcrumb?

Scien looks increasingly town with time and rereads, so . . . yeah.

Vote: Papa Zito.
/slap PZ for trying to shake off my vote
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Post Post #719 (isolation #35) » Mon Dec 14, 2009 5:14 pm

Post by crypto »

Pyotr C. Romanof wrote:EkiM might've breadcrumbed, actually. Go to his iso. and search for "follow."
EPIC FAIL. Yeesh, this alt didn't even make it into a game yet. Quoted for isos.
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Post Post #726 (isolation #36) » Mon Dec 14, 2009 5:23 pm

Post by crypto »

Lol @ how PZ keeps throwing himself at Troll's feet.
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Post Post #733 (isolation #37) » Mon Dec 14, 2009 5:34 pm

Post by crypto »

Actually, my town read on charlatan and scum read on PZ were/are both losing steam while rereading. But I'm inclined to believe the power role in this situation. I feel like fake-claiming as scum isn't worth the risk.

Re: PZ. Sorry, missed the sarcasm. :?
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Post Post #734 (isolation #38) » Mon Dec 14, 2009 5:34 pm

Post by crypto »

Actually, my town read on charlatan and scum read on PZ were/are both losing steam while rereading. But I'm inclined to believe the power role in this situation. I feel like fake-claiming as scum isn't worth the risk.

Re: PZ. Sorry, missed the sarcasm. :?
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Post Post #740 (isolation #39) » Mon Dec 14, 2009 5:52 pm

Post by crypto »

Time for sleeping.

Unvote.
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Post Post #755 (isolation #40) » Tue Dec 15, 2009 9:39 am

Post by crypto »

Sorry for being dense, but what does Vi's review have to do with the possibility of a tracker?

I spy with my little eye a Troll getting ready to jump on the hotter wagon.
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Post Post #757 (isolation #41) » Tue Dec 15, 2009 11:33 am

Post by crypto »

Attn: If PZ gets the go-ahead and posts his official role name, NOBODY conclusively respond to it and NOBODY affirm/deny it.
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Post Post #758 (isolation #42) » Tue Dec 15, 2009 11:35 am

Post by crypto »

That's really poor English. I mean that I don't want anyone do to either of those things, and if anyone does, I will get very, very, very, very,
very
angry.
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Post Post #759 (isolation #43) » Tue Dec 15, 2009 11:41 am

Post by crypto »

And mean, yes, angry and mean.
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Post Post #776 (isolation #44) » Wed Dec 16, 2009 8:42 am

Post by crypto »

Zorblag
, what is your role's official name (PM)?

Okay. Anally reminding everyone not to confirm/challenge the validity of PZ's role. Please and thank you.

PZ
, I'm pretty sure there are some basic setups out there with one or two power roles that the mod could punch in at the last minute. It doesn't have to be all vanilla. :roll:
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Post Post #782 (isolation #45) » Wed Dec 16, 2009 9:18 am

Post by crypto »

PZ, accusing charlatan of being scum simply due to your point of view (VT vs. tracker claim) is acceptable, however lazy, useless, childish, and utterly unpersuasive. But accusing him of being scum because he got one guilty result out of two investigations is a load of bullshit and you know it.
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Post Post #784 (isolation #46) » Wed Dec 16, 2009 11:42 am

Post by crypto »

Yeah, well, mine's also town. :( I was hoping someone would contradict PZ, but retrospectively that would be a really stupid move.
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Post Post #792 (isolation #47) » Wed Dec 16, 2009 3:21 pm

Post by crypto »

VP Baltar wrote:
crypto wrote:Yeah, well, mine's also town. :( I was hoping someone would contradict PZ, but retrospectively that would be a really stupid move.
So, who would have been scum out of that to you? I don't see why you would expect someone to contradict him if your PM says the same thing.
If someone contradicted him I'd have been
considering
—italics are key as I believe some mods do vary VT PMs—charlatan and whoever contradicted PZ.

I'm still not sure about this. I like Zorblag's argument that if charlatan's faking then this isn't LYLO anyway, but I think there's a VERY HIGH likelihood a power role was killed (why the flying feck would you kill ODDin?), and Sando might've been a PR who didn't get the chance to speak up, though I'd have to look back because I can't remember how active he was in the moments before he got lynched.

Blah, I guess that's what Troll's getting at with his criticism of PZ's "mountainous" defense.
Scien wrote:Crypto, did you ever claim your first role?
What Troll said. Crypto no have Raskol's first role PM.
Baltar wrote:Also, upon further reflection, he is likely lying about the bulletproof vest. I don't see a mini normal being allowed to have "items" instead of roles. Doesn't really seem normal to me.
Whoa. Not liking the VP/Troll tag team here. Your (plural) line of reasoning okay, but I find PZ throwing items into the mix (a) outlandishly imaginative and (b) not worth the risk. If he was lying, why wouldn't he just say he was bulletproof?

For PZ-scum, charlatan's point a few posts back (which obviously has ended up sprinkled through VP's and Trolls' arguments) works best for me:
charlatan wrote:I'm inclined to think that an actual townie's move would probably be to try and display how I'm scum instead of arguing about the setup. Hell, I wrote a half page on why I targeted who I did and why I claimed when I did, which he should be trying to rip apart. Or to fight for his own innocence, as silly as it may seem, to avoid getting lynched.
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Post Post #795 (isolation #48) » Wed Dec 16, 2009 3:37 pm

Post by crypto »

Baltar, it's more that PZ didn't put in effort AND didn't make the right arguments. His posts are like two-line "Setup and my role PM say you're scum" jobs as opposed to, heck, just a paragraph-long
case
.

Whatever. Apparently 9:37 PM is when my writing stops being remotely lucid.
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Post Post #801 (isolation #49) » Wed Dec 16, 2009 3:59 pm

Post by crypto »

VP Baltar wrote:Either way we get a scum out of the deal.
This Go-Go Gadget Quick Lynch haste/confidence is absolutely wrecking me.
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Post Post #806 (isolation #50) » Wed Dec 16, 2009 4:39 pm

Post by crypto »

ABR, what happened to the Scien case?
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Post Post #836 (isolation #51) » Sat Dec 19, 2009 7:39 am

Post by crypto »

Sorry, I was unaware that limited access is a scum tell. :x :? If you look, I haven't posted in any of my games for a day or two. I would have voted for PZ, though. Balt, I find your argument sort of flimsy considering I've been probing and suspecting PZ for some time now, when other players haven't.

That said, if I
had
gotten the chance to post yesterday I'm not sure I would've voted then and there. The Baltar-Zorblag push still gives me a sour feeling. But if PZ flips scum, I'll feel a lot better. If he doesn't, charlatan's an auto-lynch anyway so it doesn't matter (assuming—or rather hoping to God—that we aren't in MYLO).

But yeah, come deadline I'd have to go with PZ. He just hasn't defended himself adequately, and charlatan-scum absolutely would
not
have had to fake-claim in order to get a mislynch today. Hell, there were several relatively easy lynch targets, myself included, and if anything I think a fake claim would've been an obstruction. Even if charlatan did fake-claim, I'd think he/she/it would frame an easier target than PZ and avoid the whole "Tracking PZ makes no sense, therefore you are scum!" insanity. There's really no plus for charlatan-scum to choose PZ over me or maybe Scien or . . .

Oh, and back to PZ, I still find his AGar meta and day 2 flip-flop incredibly scummy. AGar wasn't playing like he does as scum . . . but then PZ admits he isn't playing like town either, and uses that to push the wagon. Lollery.

Scum-O-Meter[0.0] charlatan*
[0.2] Ojanen
[0.3] Scien
[0.4] VP Baltar
[0.6] Zorblag
[0.7] Albert B. Rampage
[1.0] Papa Zito

* Depends on Papa Zito's flip.

I'm still not grasping this game very well on an intuitive level. It's irritating to have to go back and reread isos. over and over to force out a read on a particular player. I guess that'd make sense if there are only two mafiosi, but I really don't see that happening (shrug). Guess I'll do yet another reread of some sort tonight.

For good measure, despite the hammer:

Vote in spirit: Papa Zito.
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Post Post #860 (isolation #52) » Sun Dec 20, 2009 8:18 am

Post by crypto »

Wow. I apologize to everyone for my absolutely atrocious play this game, especially since I replaced in. I don't know what the hell was wrong with me; I was just completely out of it and getting any solid town/scum reads at all was a damn chore. Just bizarre. Without a doubt my worst game on this site. -_-

Ojanen had me 100% fooled all game. She and Scien were the only people I had written off as town. Charlatan was almost as convincing until I did a meta of him and saw that he was capable of making pro-town-looking text walls as scum. While I was doing my reread I found ekiM much more scummy than I did during my first read-through, but charlatan's claim ... I don't even want to think about it. ABR was the only mafioso I was even close to being right about.

Yecch. Sorry for the vacuous play, guys.
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Post Post #861 (isolation #53) » Sun Dec 20, 2009 8:22 am

Post by crypto »

To clarify, Amished was infinitely scummier (for me) than ABR. Early on, when he posted a bazillion jokes and then talked about how he ignores / forgets about jokes all the time—it looked like blatant flailing and I was an idiot for neglecting to pursue that suspicion on the last day.
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Post Post #862 (isolation #54) » Sun Dec 20, 2009 8:25 am

Post by crypto »

Oh, and on a less shamefully befuddled note, Serial's day 1 town hunting strategy is money (not that I'm patient enough to use it properly).

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