Hey all
I read about half the game last night before I got too tired. Glad at least some of you are voting CA even though things likely have changed since then.
Something tells me if you find it hard to respond to a paragraph you are going to hate me in the next few daysConfidAnon wrote:I'd love to dissect it and restate how you're wrong, but busted keyboard won't let me.
"fully?" ok... what that means is it WAS in part serious. If anything is partially serious, you have seen a scumtell. If you have seen a scumtell, the RVS is over. Prolonging the RVS is a slight scumtell, since you are avoiding scumhunting when its readily available. But we have him abandoning a partially serious vote for another random vote later on.CA wrote:My DeathRowKitty vote was not fully serious. Right now we are still pretty much in the RVS.
This is just such a big fence sit its quite amazing. BB did something scummy, but he is a good player so its null, but its a scummy thing. What is this even? It just feels like calling someone scum and town at the same time, especially that last line.CA wrote:One thing holding me back: I've seen BigBear play as scum. He's competent, and voting No Lynch is horrible scum play.
So he thinks its a gambit to get people to vote him for being scummy or something, which is why he never took a strong stance, he doesnt want to disturb the trap.ConfidAnon wrote:That possibility did occur to me, but I chose not to say anything because when a gambit like that is explained, then it becomes worthless.
That will just lead to more WIFOM.Looker,108 wrote:@BigBear: Were these your intentions? WIFOM? Can you refute these allegations?
If I think someone is town, im going to call them town. Sanjay is blindingly town, you are town, EC is probably town. Town reads are just as essential as scum reads are.DeathRowKitty wrote:First thoughts on Furry: his quick vote for CA earns him some town points for me, but I'm getting some funky vibes right now. It almost looks like he's trying to buddy me a little right off the bat. Obviously, that's not necessarily a scum-tell, but it seems a bit fishy that (I think) he called CA out on a couple of things I've done too while potentially buddying.
Unless someone is refusing to lynch due to jester fears, the best course of action is to call them an idiot, point out that a jester is anti-town, and get the "jester" lynched. If I get a jester lynched, good. I did my part as town to kill off an anti-town player.Knight of Cydonia wrote:Bringing up a Jester = steering the town away from looking for scum, onto finding a hypothetical Jester that may not exist.
Bringing up a Jester = creating unnecessary speculation. This is the internet, we all mistrust each other enough as it is. Jester speculation begins all kinds of "should we really lynch him, he might WANT to be lynched" WIFOM.
First off... bandwagoning is one of the most pro-town things that can be done in the early stages of the game. On top of that there is no explaining for why there is any scumtell here, just that he is wagoning. Its a legitimate wagon, there is nothing bad about that.ConfidAnon wrote:This vote does not seem protown at all. It practically screams bandwagon.EC wrote:I don't know how he knows a godfather even exists. Honestly, half the posts in this thread aren't serious.
I don't like Far Cry's personal attacks, but I don't see anything scummy with him.
I'm just jumping on the Shrinehme bandwagon because I don't get good vibes from him.
Vote: Shrinehme
Unvote, Vote: EtherealCookie
AtE is not scummy. Sorry. No one has ever explained why it is. I see CAs attempt, but it fails. Doubly to him using it as a conditional tell. The ignoring of BB putting him at a precieved L-2 getting not even a second thought is concerning as well.ConfidAnon wrote:Appeal to emotion, js.EtherealCookie wrote:Whoa, whoa, whoa. I'm not Jester. I'm just a guy who got swarmed with too much shit, said a few stupid things, and is in a deep pile of shit right now and is too busy to get out of it currently. Give me till the weekend, guys.
Again, what is scummy here is poor/failure to defend oneself, not AtE.ConfidAnon wrote:I would argue that when someone gets votes and uses AtE as part of their defense it is scummy, specifically when the AtE outweighs the argument.Furry, 698 wrote:AtE is not scummy. Sorry. No one has ever explained why it is. I see CAs attempt, but it fails. Doubly to him using it as a conditional tell. The ignoring of BB putting him at a precieved L-2 getting not even a second thought is concerning as well.
Ehhhh.... thats not what I think you think, or thought, or at very least acted on. Due to this...ConfidAnon wrote:I'm not understanding the point that this post is making. It's not AtE, I called it the wrong name, so I'm scummy? You worded it kind of funny, sorry for the confusion.Furry, 712 wrote:Its still not AtE... thats almost as big of a crap tell as "overdefensive". I am much more willing to lynch players pushing those on a case then the pushed, they are that bad of tells.
Which is you expanding on the "AtE" thing. There is no mention of 'avoiding defending onesself' or however I put it. This is an attempt to explain why AtE is scummy. And a conditional tell based on experience (something else I hate).ConfidAnon wrote:I just simply missed your question.
I generally see Appeal To Emotion as a scumtell. It is a method used to avoid a lynch, and scum have the most motivation to avoid a lynch. It is true that townies do not want to be lynched either, but normally only newb townie's use appeal to emotion . . . and unless I am mistaken, EC is not a noob.
AtE is a complete null tell. Not defending oneself, while at times appears as a by-product of AtE, is something completely different. Its besides the point though.ConfidAnon wrote:You said "poor/failure to defend oneself." Using AtE as a main part of your defense would definitely fall under that category.
I still havent decided if I find this question insulting or not.Looker wrote:All I need is your opinion, Furry, whether you believe this case to be realistic or not.
Formation of wagons is quite a big one. Most of the people I have had anti-town reads on are attacking DKR. DRK has been on wagons of people that I have anti-town reads on. I know thinking the same things are not completely indicative of alignment, but I trust my reads enough.ConfidAnon wrote:Furry- Sorry if I missed it earlier, but did you ever explain your town read on DRK?
Why funny? I always have my set of goal to accomplish, built around defending town reads and lynching scum reads. One of my goals is not to have a DRK lynch.Looker wrote:The purple part's funny to me in an off-beat kind of way.Furry's [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=1949242#1949242]Post 743[/url] wrote:No not KoC.... If you moved to CA, or we both moved to DJ that might work better. I guess it depends where the new replacements vote ends up.that wouldnt accomplishthe goaltoo well
Move to CA - I'm currently under the assumption that both CA and DRK are town.
Move to DJ - I don't know. DJ seems to be a great town target to me, because town are on his wagon already so you wouldn't look scummy if he flipped town. I think I'll stick with KoC.
Its CA over you over DRK. If it came down to you or DRK, I would vote you without much thought. I would like a CA lynch much more, but there are other lynches (whoever replaced PB, shine) who also would be acceptable to me. The case on your predicessor isnt overpowering, which is what I was checking, but it is there.don_johnson wrote:furry: why me over CA? i haven't exactly followed your train of thought, but i remember you questioning my wagon upon entry to the thread.
CA is my top pick. DJ is not my second pick, my second (and third) picks have no votes however. Im planning to stick on my top suspect, but with all likeyhood if shifts need to occur, it will be close to deadline and there will not be enough time to lay out a great case on a third party. If CA was not my top suspect I wouldnt of came into the game voting him. I am confident in my ability to shake things up when I have time to.Raskol wrote:Furry---not having time to push an alternate lynch is no reason not to make cases. If CA is truly your top suspect, then fine, but you shouldn't avoid pushing lynches just because you think you won't be supported. If you end up having to go with the majority to avoid a no lynch, fine, but do your best---sticking with easy bandwagons just because they're easy doesn't help the town, and makes people like me find you suspicious.
No... but if you want to imagine it does go ahead.Looker wrote:One question (I'm SO self-centered): Does this happening have anything to do with...moi...? [Please say yes]
Ehhh... maybe not confirmed town but I think it means that one of my reads are wrong. Once the vote moves somewhere there are more solid conclusions as to what it means. The DRK wagon is stalled and under attack though, given that DRK looks town, its going to look bad if he gets lynched for anyone on that wagon.archaebob wrote:As far as I'm concerned CA is pretty much confirmed town.
Unless there's anybody who thinks that they can explain the motivation for a scum-CA to unvote like that two days before deadline, then I fully expect to see this wagon disappear.
Self-preservation against current reads. Between you and DRK, I wanted to see who was going to do what, and if staying alive or persuing a top pick ment more to you two. The current VC kind of kills a lot of what was happening, I fully expected to come back to a 4-4 with throwaway single votes, but its still worth noting.don_johnson wrote:furry: waiting on your bullshit "i'm waiting to see one thing" bullshit. spew anytime.
Continuing a null tell. 90% of minis have three scum, its not a slip in the least bit.Peabody wrote:I was thinking the same exact thing but I didn't want to bring it up, hoping maybe he'd slip again.BigBear wrote:
Unvote :
Vote: Sanjay
How do you know there are three scum?
Peabody wrote:BigBear's self-vote bugs me.
Far_cry is making me nervous.
Hollow suspicions. All he is coming up with for tells is "strange" and "feels wierd". Not what you try and push a case on.Peabody wrote:Far_Cry's play has been quite strange to me. During the RVS, I have been sitting back and just noting little behavior, and I didn't like things that I saw from Far_Cry thus far.
Far_Cry's post 59 and post 60 makes me a bit uneasy. I think it is a bit strange to failvote and then revote during the RVS. It's a vote that doesn't matter anyway..
heh... BN is scum and DRK-CA are his partners apparently by this post. Everything from PB just changed. FC is now town, EC is just *poof*-a-fied or something... he is following the trends as much as possible.Peabody wrote:I'm going to
unvote ZazieR; vote brothernature
I'm pretty sure he's scum.
I've also got anFOS DeathRowKittyfor his unvoting of CA. You seemed really adamant about voting Confid. Now to change your vote to a lurker is alarming.
Also, I'd like toFoS ConfidAnonbecause the inconsistencies which DRK pointed out are scary.
This is bad. Lurker wagon, of the main pusher of your previous vote. Makes no sense. Especially this close to deadline.Raskol wrote:Just noticed we haven't had a post from ZazieR in over a week, though he's active in other threads.
Vote: Zazier
Hopefully a bandwagon will give him some incentive to post.
Zazie plays like this. Have seen it happen, he gets in too many games and does massive post bursts. Anyways, its not active lurking, its not something you lynch on, I still say its argueably a slight town tell for him. I still dont understand the move, especially given the relation of zazie to BN.Raskol wrote:Oh, and for anyone saying ZazieR has an excuse (the "La for school" in the signature)---check his activity in his other games. He has 25 onsite poststoday alone. If that guy's V/La then I'm a flying raccoon.
So basically---ACTIVE LURKER OMG OMG LYNCHLYNCHLYNCHLYNCHLYNCH
Really??Raskol wrote:Between KoC and BigBear I prefer lynching BigBear as he will leave the most connections behind and has been individually scummier on top of that, whereas my main point against KoC is his position on the wagon and his pushing of a weak anti-town-tell (jester spec) as sole reason for that vote. BigBear's got both of those plus extra.
No. Stop. This is couterproductive and scummy as hell. The wagon isnt happening, it goes against your previous reads, and is throwing away your vote.Raskol wrote:unvote
vote: ZazieR
Kill it with fire.
Says the player who keeps abandoning legitimate wagons for a lurker wagonRaskol wrote:Also, I'd just like to remind everyone how close we are to deadline.
Die scum die. You take your vote off the player you came in voting, that you moved to the player attacking for lurking, that you temporarily moved to a third party, back to lurker, to third part, to original vote for not full claiming.Raskol wrote:I guess I don't care too much, though. I won't be around tomorrow anyway, so you guys can do what you like.
unvote
YesSanjay wrote:Can you show that Peabody was convinced Far_Cry was scum, Furry? He didn't even vote for him.
And he voted him in random stage, so the vote was already there.Peabody wrote:What do you mean by joining in the discussion? I felt that most of the RVS was just gibberish. I just decided to observe, and I found Far_Cry to be scummy. My vote on him was not random.ZazieR wrote:Post 111 – Why didn’t you join the discussion,Peabody? Also, can you elaborate on the random vote bit?
I do land surveying for the county sewer department, have to keep mapping out the areas for new lines.Looker wrote:Off-topic: That's some fascinatin stuff u got there with the topo and the arroyo and the lines. I've got absolutely no idea what you're talking about but it sounds nice.
Actually any doc-cop combo with at least one scum PR made with the intention of countering it is bastardly as hell. Then again going into deadline with two players needing replacing is also bastardly as hellConfidAnon wrote:Scum DJ could be trying to out a hypothetical cop by getting them to cc your claim right before he gets lynched. And if no cc happens, you will move into night. Then you could use wifom saying you didn't die because scum were thinking you'd be saved by a protection role, and use your now influential position to clear your buddies and lead lynches.
Im only 21... its just a job while im going to school. Makin me feel old here. Also what job can you have that 10 hour days? I didnt even start working 40 hour weeks untill junior year of HS.Looker wrote:"]O, so you're like a grown-up doing important stuff, huh? Niiiice. I can't wait til I turn 16, I'm going to become a super model.Furry wrote:I do land surveying for the county sewer department, have to keep mapping out the areas for new lines.Looker wrote:Off-topic: That's some fascinatin stuff u got there with the topo and the arroyo and the lines. I've got absolutely no idea what you're talking about but it sounds nice.
Im not countering the claim. Want to sleep on it. Breadcrumbs though?
And I doubt he can sleep on it because he says he's not going to be around tomorrow or something like that. He's going to disappear V/LA-style like ZazieR. Either way, I doubt you'll find any breadcrumbs. It just seems to have popped up out of the blue due to the votes and the deadline and all.
You know me messing up a vote on you is only a scumtell if you are scum...don_johnson wrote:i don't like furry's fail vote. reads like a deliberate scum move, and coupled with his set-up speculation when we are in a 12 player mini with one role claimed i would certainly bring him onto the list of suspicion.
Ive played mainly open games. Every closed game is different, watching people you can usually get a slight feel for the setup. I actually am still surprised that there was a cop in this game. But I have defended a roleblocker and gunsmith claim (both correctly) and gotten scum who was claiming vanilla townie cop (KoC was in that game, and the mod)Sanjay wrote:Furry, can you show us any other games where you disbelieve cop claims automatically just because you don't like the role?
Trade you perspectives on life. Spending the entire day flagging for a stake job sure takes its toll on views of humanity.Looker wrote:O, and currently listening to one of my favorite songs (Ambling Alps), so I just wanted all of you to have a great day and live life to the fullest. You only have one. I'm just sayin
It was a reaction to the "I am town" comment preceeding the vote. When I read it I had one of those *heh* reactions to it and just kept going. I may be wrong, but that comment would not of changed no matter who just got voted.Sanjay wrote:It's not a chainsaw exactly.
It's just that the comment seemed indicative to me of an attitude that didn't become a townie who just had someone lead a bandwagon onto him away from a known gang banger.
Are you picking up what I am dropping down, Furry?
Furry wrote:Continuing a null tell. 90% of minis have three scum, its not a slip in the least bit.Peabody wrote:I was thinking the same exact thing but I didn't want to bring it up, hoping maybe he'd slip again.BigBear wrote:
Unvote :
Vote: Sanjay
How do you know there are three scum?
Peabody wrote:BigBear's self-vote bugs me.
Far_cry is making me nervous.Hollow suspicions. All he is coming up with for tells is "strange" and "feels wierd". Not what you try and push a case on.Peabody wrote:Far_Cry's play has been quite strange to me. During the RVS, I have been sitting back and just noting little behavior, and I didn't like things that I saw from Far_Cry thus far.
Far_Cry's post 59 and post 60 makes me a bit uneasy. I think it is a bit strange to failvote and then revote during the RVS. It's a vote that doesn't matter anyway..
PB completely drops FC for EC when he [FC] gets replaced (hard to really show this with a quote ok?)
So zazie comes in (for FC) and then PB decides to move to BN, following the player who he was convinced was scum, but is now active and loud (AAL players are favorites for scum to follow).
heh... BN is scum and DRK-CA are his partners apparently by this post. Everything from PB just changed. FC is now town, EC is just *poof*-a-fied or something... he is following the trends as much as possible.Peabody wrote:I'm going to
unvote ZazieR; vote brothernature
I'm pretty sure he's scum.
I've also got anFOS DeathRowKittyfor his unvoting of CA. You seemed really adamant about voting Confid. Now to change your vote to a lurker is alarming.
Also, I'd like toFoS ConfidAnonbecause the inconsistencies which DRK pointed out are scary.
Stuff on Raskol comin, hold on huns, we can swing this.
What I had on Raskol yesterday.Furry wrote:Raskol plays the opposite card of PB. He comes in and denounces the DRK-CA wagons, and pushes on the DJ[BN] wagon.
The Zaize thing pushes it over the edge for me though given that I dont think it lines up well with a suspicion of anyone that thinks DJ is scum. Zazie went to town on BN, so anyone thinking BN is scum shouldnt be voting Zazie.
This is bad. Lurker wagon, of the main pusher of your previous vote. Makes no sense. Especially this close to deadline.Raskol wrote:Just noticed we haven't had a post from ZazieR in over a week, though he's active in other threads.
Vote: Zazier
Hopefully a bandwagon will give him some incentive to post.
Zazie plays like this. Have seen it happen, he gets in too many games and does massive post bursts. Anyways, its not active lurking, its not something you lynch on, I still say its argueably a slight town tell for him. I still dont understand the move, especially given the relation of zazie to BN.Raskol wrote:Oh, and for anyone saying ZazieR has an excuse (the "La for school" in the signature)---check his activity in his other games. He has 25 onsite poststoday alone. If that guy's V/La then I'm a flying raccoon.
So basically---ACTIVE LURKER OMG OMG LYNCHLYNCHLYNCHLYNCHLYNCH
Really??Raskol wrote:Between KoC and BigBear I prefer lynching BigBear as he will leave the most connections behind and has been individually scummier on top of that, whereas my main point against KoC is his position on the wagon and his pushing of a weak anti-town-tell (jester spec) as sole reason for that vote. BigBear's got both of those plus extra.
So now BN wagon is abandoned, Zazie wagon is abandoned and he is moving on to the new hot topics, vaguely reminicant of his predicessor. I also love how his reason for BB over KoC is having more votes. If they had idenical votes who would be preferable?
No. Stop. This is couterproductive and scummy as hell. The wagon isnt happening, it goes against your previous reads, and is throwing away your vote.Raskol wrote:unvote
vote: ZazieR
Kill it with fire.
Says the player who keeps abandoning legitimate wagons for a lurker wagonRaskol wrote:Also, I'd just like to remind everyone how close we are to deadline.
Die scum die. You take your vote off the player you came in voting, that you moved to the player attacking for lurking, that you temporarily moved to a third party, back to lurker, to third part, to original vote for not full claiming.Raskol wrote:I guess I don't care too much, though. I won't be around tomorrow anyway, so you guys can do what you like.
unvote
I cant follow this logic. There is none.
Now you are going to not vote with a close count, that puts it over the edge to me.
Maybe I was not specific enough on this. Some people are just kind of jabbering on about stuff and avoiding the Raskol push I made here. Forcing stances is a great scumhunting tool, people need to take a stance on this.Furry wrote:would be nice is EVERYONE gave opinions on this in their next post. There are a few people who are walking quite gingerly around this topic
Looker, arch, fits... dunno where they stand on the wagon im pushing, dont like it either.DeathRowKitty wrote:By using the word "jabbering," were you saying that there were players talking about nothing of importance and if so, which players specifically?Furry wrote:Some people are just kind of jabbering on about stuff and avoiding the Raskol push I made here.
When you do this remember that BN was scumhavingfitz wrote:I am not suspicious of Raskol/EKT at the moment so I am not on the wagon you are pushing. But that could easily change as I have yet to do an ISO on him and am still intermittently skimming the 40+ pages prior to my joining the game.Furry wrote:Looker, arch, fits... dunno where they stand on the wagon im pushing, dont like it either.
*shrug*Looker wrote:I thought I did. I can't see any reason to move my vote.
The thing is it seems like no one really is interested in that wagon. By stiitin on it doing nothing, you really are just avoiding the rest of the game since you have something to talk about, but it wont ever happen.Looker wrote:And, @ Furry: We may have to go to deadline, I don't know why I thought that was such a bad thing.
EKT wagon, KoC wagon and BB wagon. I can respect your opinion of another wagon, but to some extent you have to realize that it isnt going to happen without a lot of other things occuring first, so there are more efficent places to vote.Looker wrote:I don't think thereisa rest of the game, Furry...
??archaebob wrote:Looker, my problem with lynching Sanjay is that he is a rather costly mislynch.
Thats a little repetitive.I don't see Sanjay as scummier than KoC, but i see KoC-town as way more useless than Sanjay-town.