Mini 915 - Murder in Murder Free Village (Over)

[charter]

vote Deejay

The bigger the wagon, the better.

[charter]

Lol

unvote, vote Kmd

Your nervousness tell and overexplaining tell are really stretching. In fact, all your reasons are really stretching. It seems like those are just nervous tells, I don't see why that makes him scum. Some people thrive being scum (though I don't know if Flare does, and I doubt you do either).

I'm sad that Deejay hasn't posted when he's got a few votes, but I'll live.

[charter]

Lol

unvote, vote Kmd

Your nervousness tell and overexplaining tell are really stretching. In fact, all your reasons are really stretching. It seems like those are just nervous tells, I don't see why that makes him scum. Some people thrive being scum (though I don't know if Flare does, and I doubt you do either).

It's worked recently. I spotted scum on very similar tells VERY early in the game. As in RVS. Of course I was dumb and didn't follow through with it once the game progressed a little, but my Page 1 cases were on scum in both of the games I used them (2 of the last 3 games I joined).

Not sure what you mean by "thrive being scum".

Can you give a link to this recent game? Scum can definitely be caught on page one, but I don't see how you've done that here.

What I meant by thrive being scum is your tells detected nervousness, but some people aren't nervous when they're scum. They play better, so your nervous tells don't seem indicative of alignment.

Deejay's 33 is pretty suspicious. Deejay, why are you so worried about being lynched already?

I am liking Darkstrike.

danakillsu is pretty suspicious, but last time I saw someone blatantly rolefish (twice) they were town, so I'm sticking with kmd right now. I don't like dana's vote on Deejay either.

[charter]

Still waiting Kmd. Not really much has changed since I last posted, dana is scummy, but I think Kmd is scummier.

@NobodySpecial, who are you most suspicious of? Why aren't you voting? Why are you calling out MME for not posting yet you're posting much less than he is? Do you want to hear more from Nicodemus?

Haschel, who's your second suspect after dana?

[charter]

This game just ended. Looking over it, I didn't catch him with the nervousness tell here, but Netopalis was scum who I placed a serious vote on in my first post (Post 15). Too bad I bought his fakeclaim.

My other example hasn't ended yet. At least from this, you can see a game where I was town and was serious about believing I caught scum from my very first post. I make a post a little later saying I have 4 very solid reads on players. Turns out 3 of the 4 were right.

I don't think these two are all that similar, I think good scumhunting caught him in that other game, but that's not what you're doing here. Here you took some posts, created some 'scumtell' and said those posts contained that scumtell. That's not good scumhunting, that's fake or very poor scumhunting.

NobodySpecial, what opinions have you formed then? I don't really get how you can have opinions on people but don't find anyone scummy, please explain.

[charter]

It's good scumhunting if I'm right.

This is crap. Anyone can justify any action by saying that, but there's no way to verify that until the person's alignment is known.

You are just echoing my question to NS by the way.

Well yeah, he's doing absolutely nothing and that's going to change or he's going to get lynched.

[charter]

unvote, vote Nobody Special

I don't see why you can't participate with the rest of us, I'm calling scum. I'm not misrepresenting you either, I'm asking you to share your opinions, which you're going to extreme lengths not to do, even a tiny bit.

Kmd, please, if I think there's a question that needs answering or a point that needs addressing, I'm going to repeat it, don't give me this 'original point' nonsense. Especially if it was previously ignored.

[charter]

Kmd, why are you still voting Flareonage?

Glad to see some more votes on NS. I'm eagerly awaiting his explanation to why it took him so long to talk about someone, especially since that was the scummiest thing he's ever seen.

[charter]

Can't say I understand what dana has done that is scummier than NS. Can someone enlighten me please.

[charter]

Yep.

vote:DJC

for three reasons.
1)His vote for Flareonage for self-preservation
2)His nervousness
3)I want to see him claim

There is no single player that stands out (yet) as scummiest to me; that's why I'm not voting. I hope to ferret out some scummitude soonest.

NobodySpecial, what opinions have you formed then? I don't really get how you can have opinions on people but don't find anyone scummy, please explain.

I have some half-formed opinions on some people; I never said I didn't find

anyone

scummy, only that I don't have a

scummiest

player yet.

Yep.

vote:DJC

for three reasons.
1)His vote for Flareonage for self-preservation
2)His nervousness
3)I want to see him claim

This just sticks out as one of the scummiest things I've seen in a mafia game

ever.

This story changing is pretty much a claim of scum from NS. What is the hold up with his lynch? This is a really clear cut scum lynch guys.

[charter]

@Charter: It's eleven days until a lynch is required. Why so eager?

I loathe dragging days out until deadline, doubly so when deadline comes and you wind up having to scramble to lynch. Much better to just lynch the scum as you catch them and not worry about deadlines.

[charter]

@Charter: It's eleven days until a lynch is required. Why so eager?

I loathe dragging days out until deadline, doubly so when deadline comes and you wind up having to scramble to lynch. Much better to just lynch the scum as you catch them and not worry about deadlines.

Well of course I don't want to drag it out until the day before the deadline. But we have 11 (now 10) days. Much better to allow a few more days of discussion than mislynch because of a lack of information.

I don't see you trying to stimulate much discussion and make good use of those days, so why are you complaining that they're aren't going to be used?

Kmd needs to explain why he's been clinging to a jbernier vote for so long before anyone hammers.
Lastsurvivor, can you explain how you're still clinging to a jbernier vote for so long based off kmd's flimsy reasons?

[charter]

I'm saying that for someone who claims not to like dragging days out, you're doing your best to do just that.

[charter]

Buried under snow, post later if we keep power and dig out..

[charter]

@Charter: Where did I say I don't like dragging days out? What I meant in post 158 was "I don't want to put us really close to the deadline, but I think you shouldn't be so eager to lynch."

It sounded like you don't like dragging days out when you said "Well of course I don't want to drag it out until the day before the deadline.".

@Charter: I never bothered to unvote.

So do you think he's scum still or what? Who's your top suspect?

Neighbor claim, don't care who his neighbor is, and not unvoting.

@kmd, fair enough, it seems like you did fairly similar in that game and he was scum, so I'll retract my FOS and consider your case. However, nervousness or not, no one is within a mile of how scummy NS is.

I don't think kyle's asking who the neighbor is is scummy. I do think it's pointless since the neighbors could both be town, one scum/one town, or both scum, and we have no way of knowing.

[charter]

~5 days until deadline. It's looking like LS is NS's buddy with how he's been harping about using the time we have until deadline, but not doing any such thing. It looks like a big distraction away from NS.

I think someone needs to hammer before NS manages to slip away.

[charter]

I'm going to go with a

Vote Kmd

. I think I've identified three scumbags in Kmd, Viking, and Lastsurvivor.

My suspicion on Kmd stems almost entirely from this contradiction, but I think it's pretty damning.

I think Kyle is town because of the way he acknowledged that his vote was L-2 and said he had "no worries" about it. He genuinely thinks NS is scum.

-Votes NS next post with "No worries"
--------Sounds like he had a feeling the vote would implicate him.
....

Vote Kyle

Trying to have his cake and eat it too.

DeeJayCee/VikingFan

Heh, sorry guys i realized i got school on Thursday and i haven't started organizing anything.

Well considering i don't want to die in the first round for just being at the top of the players list, and i do agree with KMD when he pointed out some "unusual" um, points, regarding Flareonage's posts. I guess if i want to survive i should vote for him as well.

Unvote, Vote:Flareonage

He's already gone in to self preservation mode, found this scummy yesterday as well. I don't think I picked up on this yesterday, but he agreed with Kmd's reasoning (which I think is very flimsy). Based on Kmd's link he made, I can see how Kmd supposedly believes what he's posting, but I really don't see how anyone else can actually buy it. Seems like he's following his scumbuddy Kmd.

Vikingfan didn't do much yesterday except a pretty useless vote on Kyle. Didn't comment on either NS or dana. Just generally scummy vibes off him.

Lastsurvivor
Really I would just point to any of his posts and say I don't like it or I get scum vibes off him. He's lacking any protownness whatsoever.

I'll also throw my two cents in about SK/Vig. I don't see how anyone (Kyle specifically) can be thinking one over the other right now since a lot of people thought dana was scummy, so if you're a SK, your top priority is taking out scum (also true if you're a vig).

And my two cents about the Hider. The flavor says both dana and Nico were shot, which makes it seem an awful lot like there were two kills, not that Nico hid behind dana or hid behind scum. Just speculation though. I'll also say that it's possible (if the role pm allows it) that Nico didn't hide. I've been a hider before, and I spent most nights not hiding because I didn't want to die.

Kyle - Hider

[charter]

As for you, charter, I don't see how in the world I can respond to complaints on DJC when I wasn't him and 'generally scummy vibes' are impossible to respond to. Maybe outline something that I can actually respond to?

You can't really respond to what DJC did, but you share the same role pm so you're still accountable for his actions.

The reason I think you're scummy is, day one all you did was vote kyle and didn't say a word about anyone else. In fact, the only thing you've said about anyone else is agreeing with me that Kmd's contradiction is scummy. Plus, I think the reason you voted Kyle yesterday was very weak, I don't see how him retracting a scummy question two minutes after he asked it is scummy.

[charter]

Basically yeah. You followed Kmd's vote, which I think was very weak.
All of your posts don't say much, there's no scumhunting to be seen. You don't give your opinions on people's alignment. You insist on long days, but do nothing with them. There's absolutely nothing about your play that makes me think you're town. You basically just run around in the background not drawing attention to yourself and trying to slide by. You're not looking to lynch scum.

[charter]

So you don't think I'm scum, you think I'm anti town?

I think you're scum and anti town. Even now, all you want to do is just bicker with me, not find scum.

So very tempting to switch my vote to you, but I'd rather lynch Kmd still.

[charter]

No, you're not scumhunting, at least not in any sense of the word I've ever seen, and I'm pretty sure that most others would agree.

I just posted a case on you. Your only response was 'I'm just anti town, why do you think I'm scum!' which is very underwhelming and just cementing my belief that you're scum. You didn't get me to elaborate on any points or even try and refute any of them, so I assume that you agree with them. They do show that you're scum. Not giving opinions on peoples alignments is scummy. You make a big fuss about dragging days out, I assume because you think it's the "town" thing to do, but then you don't even make an attempt at using extra time. That's scummy. You're not trying to lynch scum. That's scummy.

My reasons for suspecting DJC/Viking are based partially on the notion of Kmd being scum, so they are not iron clad, but you're ignoring DJC's going in to self preservation mode on like page two, which is scummy.

You have five posts so far today, and in my opinion you haven't said anything. I have no idea who you're suspicious of. You aren't voting.

This big rant just changed my mind.

unvote, vote Lastsurvivor

@Everyone, what is your opinion on Lastsurvivor? Town or scum? If it's town, please explain what he's done to give you that impression.

[charter]

@Everyone, what is your opinion on Lastsurvivor? Town or scum? If it's town, please explain what he's done to give you that impression.

Still wondering why more people aren't voting him right now.

[charter]

Still waiting for people to explain why they think LS is town, or why they aren't voting him, or how the universe started.

[charter]

I'm not suspicious of anyone who voted for NS because of the fact that they voted him. He was scummy and a lynch was merited. I find those (kmd, viking (what a coincidence it's those two)) that are trying to use it as their sole scumhunting to be suspect. There was really good reason to lynch NS, so I'm actually a bit wary about those who didn't vote him knowing he wasn't going to flip scum. It's like they knew he was going to get himself lynched anyway, so they tried to distance their self from a town lynch. Typical scumplay.

Now, they're using this nonsense of 'well soandso voted a townie, he must be scum' to justify a vote today. I didn't see either one of them object to the wagon yesterday, in fact, kmd was even on it. This is kmd doing more of trying to have his cake (vote of NS) and eat it too (vote someone else for voting NS). Viking is doing it as well (by virtue of not objecting to the wagon yesterday) though he at least got here late and to a lesser degree. Scummy.

I'm weary of Kyle, but for reasons entirely unrelated to his vote of NS (I do agree with viking that his fishing was suspicious, but he did retract it a minute later, so I'm giving it a pass) but I also don't like how his play is eerily similar to that mini we were just in together.

Jbernier looks town as hell to me, what does he look to you?

[charter]

That's right, you replaced Flareonage. I thought Kmd's reasons for voting you yesterday were shady, though apparently he's done it before. So then the question is raised of who is more suspicious, 'the fool or the fool who follows the fool'? Not coincidentally, LS is the follower, and then we get DJC who comes in and self preservation votes for Flareonage on page two. The epitome of scummy votes. Going back and looking at it again just makes me want these three (Kmd, DJC/Viking, LS) dead as soon as possible to eliminate the scummatude within them. And then Kmd ignores the nervousness of DJC when he votes Flareonage. Yes, there is so much scumminess within these three, I'd be amazed if all three aren't scum.

And then, in post 45 right after dana puts DJC at L-2, LS comes in and questions dana's vote, deflecting from his scumbuddy!

I think that if people go back and reread like the first three pages of the game, they'll get a pretty good idea of what I'm preaching here.

[charter]

I'm more suspicious of all three (kmd, viking, LS) of you than kyle independently, so when you add in the connections between you three, it tips the scales WAY in favor of one of you three over kyle.

I find LS's

sole vote of the game

, which came in his first post, to be far more suspicious than being on any number of townie lynches. Obviously you can't be on townie lynches if you only vote once. Vote count analysis fails to take important things like this in to account, which I think is one of the pitfalls of scumhunting by vote counts.

Viking, do you think NS is scummy or townish? You say there's little in his post history of the game, but that's a pretty blurry read.

Now that I went back and checked vote histories, I find MME has only made two votes as well.

MOD, can we get some prods or replacement on My Milked Eek?

By my count, it's been 53 hours since his last post. If he does not post within 19 hours, I will send him a third and final prod. -Mod

[charter]

The vote count analysis being used is "scum must have been the fourth, fifth, or sixth vote on the lynch". That's it. That's not enough to lynch someone over.

From my view, the "almost ALWAYS at least one scum on a mislynch" looks a lot like it could be you. What do you make of LS's lone vote on page one? You don't find that suspicious? How do you plan on ever vote count analyzing him or MME since they don't vote enough to gain anything meaningful from. You said before you think LS is suspect, what exactly do you not like about him?

Another question for the kyle voters, who is his scumbuddy?

[charter]

That was in response to Kmd's post.

[charter]

Can you answer my questions I asked in 259?

[charter]

What do you make of LS's lone vote on page one?

Let me find it. The one where he follows me on to Flare? I commented on the vote when he placed it. If Flare (now Jb) flips scum, it's a slight town tell because it's pretty much a wagon hop, which I don't think he'd do to his buddy. If Jb is town, it's pretty much null because it can easily be a wagon hop OR trying to spring up discussion with an early bandwagon. It's not a very strong tell either way unless Jb is scum, in which case it's a town tell for LS.

Oh, I meant what do you make of the fact that he has only made a single vote the whole game. In his first post. That's not pro town at all.

How do you plan on ever vote count analyzing him or MME since they don't vote enough to gain anything meaningful from.

That actually plays into the analysis. If I see that somebody doesn't vote, it's going to look scummy.

When does it start to be scummy?

[charter]

So, this is probably LYLO, massclaim?

Popcorn style?

[charter]

Who next?

[charter]

I only have like five minutes, so I'm just vanilla. I have stuff to say, but not time to say it.

If anyone hasn't claimed, you're up.

[charter]

Sorry guys, been sick. I'll try and post tonight.

[charter]

Ok, been contemplating whether or not I buy Kmd's claim and whether I trust the integrity of his results. His choices certainly seem to make sense and it reflects his play for the game. With LS flipping town, my theory of Kmd, Viking, LS got shot to hell so I'm thinking I've just been horribly wrong this game.

As far as kyle, I'm really not seeing a way he's not town based off his claim. 1-shot vig is pretty confirmable and almost always town in a game this size. I said before that I thought there was two kills night one, and now kyle's immediate announcing his thoughts of a vig at the start of day two are consistent with his claim.

That really just leaves Jbernier, MME, and Haschel as scum, unless Viking is a godfather. Right now I'm really unsure as to which of them is scum. There's been minimal attempts at scumhunting from all of them. None of them have voted any scum (I think) just townies. I didn't see much that makes one more likely to be scum than another.

I'm going to reread and vote later tonight.

[charter]

Yeah, I don't see any other possibility.

vote jbernier

[charter]

Nice, good job Kmd and Haschel. Great job modding, Hero.

Boy is jbernier going to be pissed when he gets back.

[charter]

Yeah, I'm surprised no one went back to vet Kmd's cop claim. I almost went and did it myself since I've seen him botch it before, but then realized that it wasn't necessary as soon as Haschel got online (though you never did make it so I could see when you were online, though that was a surgical precision quickhammer) we could win. So I just stopped posting (though I was sick that day) and then went for it after Haschel announced he'd be posting that night.

Pretty shocked that Nico did hide and it was behind dana and dana was vigged. That was like a perfect storm, but dana was a good vig target since a lot of people suspected him. Also a good hider target. Just real bad luck for the town.