Mini 973: "Bawhston" Brawl (WHAT A WIN!)

[Furry]

Vote havingfitz
FoS q21

Third scum is prob lurking, although RH isnt a stretch

Hoopla and Oso are blatantly town.

About to eat, will explain why at least one if not both of fitz and q21 are scum.

@RH - Why policy lynch PGO?

Also fitz, im always scum if I replace into a game. If I dont replace into a game im always town.

Kinda secrets are also still technically secrets. hush

[Furry]

I am patiently awaiting Furry's promised explanations and would like to note that that is one long meal.

Blame a mix of poker, having far less internet access then I expected untill saturday, and classes starting in 30 min. Will see if I can hammer anything out in the next 10 though.

Slepz needs to redo his entire last post making everything the opposite of what it currently is. PGO is like miller claim. If you think they are scummy, you lynch them.

[Furry]

Big problems with fitz

1) he ignored the PGO claim. While subsequent posts make it sounds like he does in fact, belive the claim, it would be nice to get explicit clarification on the matter. Either way, a PGO (or other claim) in the early stages of the game effectively ends the RVS as information exists.

2)

Everyone target Hoopla tonight

gg

Tonight? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm......

Unvote, Vote xRECKONERx

I dont get it. Either he is completely missing what sure reads as a joke to me, or acutally believes that reck wants everyone to target hoopla tonight. If this is a joke response, I refer you back to point one, of the RVS being over at this stage, and him continuing to take up space instead of contribute.

~His last post gets broken up over a few posts

3)

I don't have a comment on the claim ATM as I have not played with a PGO before either. I'm not sure what the benefit was to town of such an early claim. Does a PGO only impact the people who try to kill or does the PGO also impact people who make any kind of contact (such as investigative or protective contact)? I lean towards there being more benefit to scum fakeclaiming PGO (especially so early in the game) than town legitimately claiming it.

Well maybe he doesnt believe the claim, which begs the question of point 2 having to be a joke (since if Hoopla is scum it doesnt matter if town PRs target her). Either way, this is a scummy statement. It says that he doesnt have too much info on this claim, which somewhat argues that we shouldnt listen to him, but at the same time he expresses some interest in a lynch of Hoopla as he thinks its a scum claim as opposed to a town one.

4)

Is lynching the PGO a standard policy lynch? Why...isn't the PGO a town affiliated role?

More fishing for a policy lynch, but again so he isnt the one who will be the main driving point behind it.

5) he also unvoted without revoting. That shouldnt be happening at this stage in the game. It also proves that 2 was a joke, revert to 1.

Im happy with what I did in 10 minutes. Will do more later tonight.

[Furry]

Still not sure what the benefit of the early PGO claim was. I can only see an early PGO claim being beneficial to non-town roles. If Hoopla is town...the claim prevents pro-town roles from touching her at night...but it also gives scum a smaller field of players to look for other PRs and prevents them from visiting her. If someone can explain how an early PGO claim helps town I would be happy to consider...but for now, it seems scummy to me.

No town roles attempting to use a protown action kill themselves by targeting the PGO this way...

1) My RVS is over when I decide it is. RVS was over for me when I unvoted. And no comment was made on the PGO claim because I was not sure what to make of it...had not yet formed an opinion.

You dont ignore the growth forming on your arm because you dont know what it is. Also RVS *should* end as soon as anyone makes a non-random move, since at that point information exists. Also zero opinion or just little opinion?

2) Correct...you do not get it. It was a joke response and based on 1) (i.e. I was still considering it the RVS) was perfectly acceptable. And you are calling me out for "continuing to take up space instead of contribute" after only two posts in what was arguably RVS? That is BS.

Yeah thats basically it. Also why joke as if the role actually exists if you are still unsure about the role existing?

3) How is my statement scummy either way? I'm not sure what to make of the claim and am leaning towards it being more beneficial to scum. And that is scummy either way? WTF? Do you have info on the claim that warrants we all listen to you?

Either way related to the previous points of you having an existing opinion on the claim. You use a whole lot of roundabout talk in coming to the conclusion that he is faking the claim. What are your basic opinions on miller claims?

4) Asking a question on PGO policy lynching in response to someone bringing it up is "more fishing" for it? That's ridiculous. You are really working hard to fabricate valid points...and to no avail.

Why do you want to know if a lynch is policy or not unless you are interested in persuing it? I see no real town motivation in wanting to know if its standard to policy lynch a PGO before trying to push one.

5) Are those Furry's Rules? Other than RVS (see my first two votes) I don't put votes on people unless I suspect them and am willing to lynch them. The unvote was me exiting the RVS stage without a preferred/real alternative. Which after further consideration has changed.

They are. I am the law.

IIRC games ive seen you in, you normally have a vote out. Votes are awesome though. Unless something major is happening you should always have a vote out.

[Furry]

Super short on time, and will be untill this weekend

WTF is with the Hoopla wagon? Are we all taking crack now?

Unvote. Vote: havingfitz.

These bandwagon hoppers need to go. Also, havingfitz accuses Furry of bullshitting, which should be considered scummy by any player, but doesn't vote for Furry, and sticks with a Hoopla vote for reasons I will never fully understand.

WTF is the problem with a Hoopla wagon? If people suspect her they should vote her. And why say bandwagon hoppers need to go immediately after hopping on my bandwagon...do you need to go? Furry's 'case' on me does make me a little leery of him but not enough to move my vote.

So Hoopla is a policy lynch to you then?

@ all - Do most PGO's claim immediately? Is it standard practice?

PGO is a fairly rare role, but I think it is a common day one claim. Not as much as miller but its up there.

[Furry]

Hoopla...your suspicions towards me amount to nothing more than OMGUS reasoning and the dreaded policy lynch fishing is a load of crap. I was asking for clarification. If (attn Furry) people want to consider my vote on you a policy lynch I guess they can. I'm voting you because I think it is more beneficial for scum to make the claim and along the lines of what Slepz said...I would rather take a chance of lynching an anti-town player making a gambit or mislynching a PR that really does town no good and will only fester suspicions throughout the game than take a chance of mislynching potentially more beneficial PRs. And by lynching you first...if you are telling the truth...we aren't making things any easier for scum because I doubt they would be targetting you in the first place. Your claim has essentially narrowed the field for them (assuming your claim is real).

So it is policy. Why did it take you so long to push policy? What is your view on Miller claims? What would be your view on a page one VT claim?

[Furry]

q21 - His posts come across awfully... formal. I get weird vibes as a result. Nothing else of note.

So... what does this mean?

Slepz - this is more of a note to self, but if fitz turns out to be scum, this post sounds like he's speaking for fitz. I don't like that.

So Slepz scum = fitz scum?

Actually, I don't want to wait to see a fitz flip. Reckoner also has a nice observation in one of his two content posts that I agree with.

So has your fitz read changed?

Also you abandon the slepz vote fast. I dont follow your logic at all. Fitz is scum with slepz, but you would rather lynch slepz even though for some reason fitz scum strengthens slepz scum... then you vote RH?

@RH - Opinions on non-Hoopla stuff? Is Hoopla scum?

[Furry]

@IP - Please dont do that color response thing. That is one of my biggest pet peeves in this game. You more tags doing color, /color than quote /quote either way.

I actually fail to understand policy lynches at all either way on claims. If you are calling for one it means you completely underestimate your own ability to scumhunt which if thats the case, why are you even playing. Those claims never mean someone is confirmed town (although I personally lean slight town since scum should never want to restrict themselves), but they should absolutely never be policy lynched. No one has ever presented a good reason for a policy lynch of a role in the history of mafia. Ever.

Policy lynches of players are a completely different story.

Im also torn right now. Once a few people post it will fixed

[Furry]

As I've already stated, in what I am sure is not an all inclusive break down, I see it benefitting scum more than town because if the claimer is town and telling the truth:

- Keeps other PRs from touching you at night

(Good for town)

- As long as you are alive it continues to cast suspicions on validity of your claim and motives behind the early claim

(IMO bad for town)

- I don't think it improves your chances of staying alive any more than town players who have not claimed

(Null advantage)

- Keeps anti-town roles from touching you at night

(Bad for town)

- It tells scum who you are and allows them to look elsewhere for other possible PRs.

(Bad for town)

Whereas if the claimer is an anti-town role fakeclaiming:
- Keeps town PRs from touching you at night

(Bad for town)

- It forces town PRs to look elsewhere for other possible anti-town...however...the advantage of narrowing the field for town to affect anti-town with their night actions is less (assuming 2-3 remaining anti-town roles) than anti-town's advantage mentioned above in finding town PRs.

(Bad for town)

- As long as you are alive it continues to cast suspicions on validity of your claim and motives behind the early claim

(IMO bad for town)

- I don't think it improves your chances of staying alive any more than town players who have not claimed

(Null advantage)

Taken as a whole...I see the PGO claim to be overall more beneficial to scum which is why I am voting you. Not on policy....because I think your claim was scummy. Additionally...the fact it has not gotten more support tends to make me think scum are supporting it.

This is horrible...
-you are correct
-you are amazingly wrong, you treat a miller/PGO/etc claim as a VT claim, always. If you think they are scummy, you lynch them, if you think they are town, you dont lynch them.
-Why is this even included
-you are basically right
-true
~~
-this is not flat out "bad" for town. It can keep roles that could waste their ability (doctor) or possibly clear them if they arent taking an action (tracker) from being useful. All it stops is cops and vigs.
-more or less an echoing of previous point
-yeah would be "good for town" if it was true. However this shouldnt be true to start
-Again, why include this?


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

What q21 said is true, you ARE pushing a policy lynch, even if you refuse to call it one. A case based on a (non proven false) roleclaim is a policy lynch, as it has nothing to do with how the player has played. Policy lynches of roles are bad, policy lynches are at times good.

More stuff later, im debating moving my vote since fitz is more being amazingly dense then scummy.

@fitz - Assume hoopla got modkilled for some wierd reason and was revealed as town PGO. Who is scum?

[Furry]

Someone else should join the me/Furry/Hoopla supertownalliance

Who says you are part of that alliance yet?

Im not all that keen on letting anyone but maybe oso in. You and nik are in the tier below him. And heh... just though of old SNL-Celeb Jeopardy "Below Me" answer" due to inital mistype.

This game is going to be trying for me due to the PGO claim I can tell. Reactions to that always get in the way of scumhunting to me since it becomes such a brutally annoying focal point for some people.

unvote

fitz needs to move on from the hoopla thing or provide a case based thing. Everyone smacking him over his ignorance is only going to get us so far.

[Furry]

@Furry:

Why do you feel Oso is obvtown?

Because his posts scream it... seriously. I cant explain it much better than gut, but I have a massive success rate with town reads. Believe me I will let you know if he becomes a strong town read, mostly by not shutting up about it. I just need to partner up with someone who is a decent scumhunter and will listen to my reads so I can just say "its a couple of these people" and they can pick them out.

[Furry]

WAIT, WHY HAS THE HAVINGFITZ WAGON DISINTERGRATED?

UNVOTE, VOTE: SLEPZ

I decided too much of me wanting him dead was hatred at his ignorance of what he was actually doing.

Deciding between slepz and JS now

@JS - Do you like your current vote? Also im assuming you get lynched a lot, is this correct?

[Furry]

@Furry

More than average, why?

Wanted to know if my VI read I had going on was justified... you ignored my second (and more important) question I had.

Wagons are annoying to me. Each one has a few people who im not happy about on it.

Should have a vote fairly soon.

[Furry]

@Nika

You have yourself a deal

Unvote; Vote:Slepz

Wow... just... wow

unvote
Vote JS

Lynching someone he thinks is town. Time to lynch him, like now. Seriously.

[Furry]

Lynching someone he thinks is town. Time to lynch him, like now. Seriously.

I've placed Reck among my top town reads, yet I've cut a deal to see my top scum read lynched. Not only that, but I'm now guilty of setting up lynches, which is about the scummiest thing one can do.
What makes Jacob different from me? Is it that most people seem to have at least a neutral, if not town read on me?
Don't answer those questions; they're rhetorical. What I want to know is why you're attacking Jacob and not myself.

I was thinking and decided this might not be rhetorical afterall

You are voting someone you think is scum with a promise (which means nothing in this game) to vote someone else tomorrow. JS is voting someone that he thinks WILL FLIP TOWN.

Also I dont have much of a read on you at this point, hard to have a good read on someone when you have only seen them as one alignment, and I have a very hard time using meta from games I was scum in since mindset is different.

JS is scum, seriously. If he isnt wagoned up in the next few pages its going to be soul crushingly painful.

[Furry]

@Furry

What you are failing to grasp is that this is a compromise, I think Slepz is to be honest, neutral/weak town, however my getting rid of someone who I think is neutral, I am getting rid of someone who I have a very strong scum read on.

Yeah, you shouldnt be voting someone you think is town. You should be trying to convince us that your top pick is actually scum.

Try again.

[Furry]

@Furry

What don't you get this is a deal, I lynch someone who I think is scum, he lynches someone who he thinks is scum. And I will get on to that tomorrow, about who I think is scum. It is fair

But.... you think Slepz is town. If fact you just argueably scumslipped that Slepz is town.

Your deal is "If slepz is town, reck gets lynched". You are talking like you know that slepz is town, because tomorrow you are already expecting to be lynching reck.

[Furry]

@All

The world isn't black and white. How I see it, Red is Scum White is Neutral and Blue is Town. The Dark Shade of either colour you have, the more certain I am of my read. It may help to think of values:
You start at 100, which is white. And the closer to 0 you are the more scummy you are, and the closer to 200, the more townie.

Ok, nothing wrong with that... I use similar thought process.

I have got Slepz at 101, and just to give you an idea of where that is, Oso is the most townie with 104, and xReckoner has 94. The average so far is 101 ish, and I am only up to 108 bear in mind, so these arn't totally reprentative.

And problem. You are voting someone you say that there is a slight town read on. You are voting someone who is very very close to your strongest town read. You are for some reason (?) saying that you arent a strong town read to yourself (??). Also I put about a 50/50 bet that these numbers are fabricated regardless of your alignment.

In what sense of logic do you even start to argue that you should be lynching a slight town read over your top scum read? Or even a middling scum read? Or an above average scum read? You are voting someone you just said you expect to flip scum. You are voting someone your top scum pick is pushing the wagon of and for that matter is LEADING it.

Seriously, how much more scum can you be at this point?

If Slepz is scum I will still push of the Reck because it is not an or expression it is an and/or expression.

lulz.

If reck is scum regardless you should be voting him today, and telling us why you are right about it. Voting someone with the intention of causing a mislynch to get your read which you havent even attempted (I hope) to convince us is scum is wrong on so many accounts.

Hope that satifises everyone

It satisfied me. Im more convinced then I was at first over you being scum.

Slepz wagon isnt all that appealing either way, with one town, a whole bunch of neutral-slight scum and then scum reads on it. Thinking its a mislynch.

[Furry]

Slepz and JacobSavage should be competing for the rest of the votes today. Time to turn this into a two-horse race.

Im down with this. Want to join JS wagon instead though?

[Furry]

Give me a little bit (the weekend) to mull over this claim. Im not asking for a hammer, but its not a "wow unvote now" claim.

[Furry]

@JS - Did you breadcrumb? Would you shoot yourself tonight? What is your kill method?
@fitz - Which of hoopla and JS are scum?

[Furry]

Two+ kills a night (Vig + mafia/SK/etc) + Paranoid Gun Owner = chaos for a Mini Normal. I'm fairly certain that either Jacob or Hoopla is lying (leaning towards Jacob if I had to pick one), so I don't object to Jacob shooting Hoopla. I think most everyone can agree with this.

The only way this will possibly work is if JS is a SK or Hoopla isnt a PGO. Anything else and you have to be dense to not see what is going to happen.

@JS - Are you a SK? If you are you should tell us now, if you really are there are a few things that should happen that actually will increase your winning chances. Yes this sounds funky beyond reason but you have to trust me on this. You are going to be dead very soon if you are a SK. I am offering you a win chance if you are the SK.

[Furry]

Yeah Hoopla said what I was thinking regarding what happens.

If JS isnt town, he is going to be "roleblocked". If he is scum, it doesnt matter since he still has a kill. If he is a SK it IS a good thing, since it will stop him from ever being able to actually kill. If he is town, it can be a good thing if Hoopla is lying (even though im willing to wager Hoopla is town), and disasterous if Hoopla is town.

I still say is JS is SK he should claim, given the chances of a psychatrist or something like that, and as I said, I dont see him living past tomorrow either way.

[Furry]

Well... I would have liked to get a SK claim out of him if he was one. Not against this lynch though, just think a little more probing would have been best before pulling the trigger. If JS is mafia, Hoopla and (probably) reck are town, nik also would get quite a few town points.

If JS is SK... well we will get to that tomorrow if thats the case, but I hope someone can realize it.

[Furry]

@fitz and TBM - What would you say if I say im nearly 100% sure one of you two are scum?

I really want to know Hooplas alignment at this point, the SK flip actually does slightly discredit the PGO claim (see NK-immunity), but not enough to cause a lynch.

A second thing to consider is that scum knew that JS was either SK or vig, this basically depends on what Hoopla flips. Either way, im thinking at least one of the post-claim votes is scum. If Hoopla is town, this is doubly true.

Not ready to vote yet. Want to see if TBM and fitz lead out.

[Furry]

Well my pair reads are expanding... im thinking either TBM-IP or fitz-GP

[Furry]

Still quite torn on TBM, mostly because how few people can be scum with him

Hoopla doesnt work due to RH trying to policy lynch
GP doesnt work due to TBM moving in and requesting that lynch
Slepz/dsister doesnt work due to TBM trying to get JS to NK them (scum-TBM expects that kill to exists).
Oso probably doesnt work due to TBM putting pressure on my town read of him
fitz probably doesnt work due to early today

So I think scum with TBM would have to be in IP, nik and q21. Thats what im weighing right now. There are so few groupings that have TBM im thinking its a slight town tell.

[Furry]

Hoopla doesnt work due to RH trying to policy lynch

Only if you assume no prior collaboration. If this is a con being run by Hoopla, then The Buttonmen could easily be a shill.

Horribly dangerous though for scum. I dont see scum making a move that if a third party role exists could end very badly.

GP doesnt work due to TBM moving in and requesting that lynch

Not sure I agree there either. Unless something radically changed, Gwynplaine had very little chance of being lynched yesterday. It is a safe place to park a vote and set up early antagonism between the two.

I dont think TBM would commit as hard as he did to the GP suspicion. The TBM "I think JS is town" solidifies this, as if the wagon falls off JS, GP is suddenly a focal point.

Oso probably doesnt work due to TBM putting pressure on my town read of him

For completeness with your list . See GP/TBM above, same reasoning applies here. My vote on him yesterday could have simply been my attempt to park my vote safely for the day. The Buttonman had very little chance of being lynched yesterday, too many others made better lynch candidates.

I dont see scum-TBM trying to kill my town-oso read on you if he was scum with you.

[Furry]

Vote InflatablePie

We are moving in an entirely different direction with this game now. Reading everyones reactions to the lynch of JS (especially if Hoopla is town, I can not emphisize enough how useful that alignment is)

*Side note to Hoopla, if you are non-PGO town (ive seen a town PR fakeclaim PGO before), can you claim it please, this can be very useful.

Still, IP went from not wanting to lynch JS due to his proveable claim (wanted TBM instead). Next was "vote to control the vig kill" something scum would love to see happen.

His iso 25 might actually be a scumslip. At this point he has entirely discounted the chance that JS is mafia, its either SK or vig. Logically, claiming vig as SK is a poor move, as scum its a bad move, but better. This comes from SK having to kill as a vig would, as scum can continually claim being RBed and not lose a factional kill.

After the fakehammer he immediately treats it as a mislynch (another sign he is scum) and tries to set the Hoopla lynch up for the hammer and the claim. He then goes into the JS shoot Hoopla idea, which again as scum is ideal for them, and gives credit to non-IP/Hoopla arguement.

Next idea is almost worst, he says lynch neither, and let scum RB JS. That would leave us with where we were yesterday, regardless of what JS was (if he is SK he is going to not kill and claim RBed) if he is town, it would do massive damage, especially with Hoopla town.

If you couple this with how much just gut is going on regarding him, im liking the exploration of a third wagon as opposed to what we have going right now.

[Furry]

Still, IP went from not wanting to lynch JS due to his proveable claim (wanted TBM instead). Next was "vote to control the vig kill" something scum would love to see happen.

I don't see how this benefits scum. It's essentially getting us another lynch, thus narrowing down suspects. Explain/elaborate?

Scum first get a chance to manipulate kill location. Secondly, scum know what PRs they should use. If they have a RBer, they know if they should block the vig or not. If they have a doctor, they know who to target, the more information scum have the better they can counter.

His iso 25 might actually be a scumslip. At this point he has entirely discounted the chance that JS is mafia, its either SK or vig. Logically, claiming vig as SK is a poor move, as scum its a bad move, but better. This comes from SK having to kill as a vig would, as scum can continually claim being RBed and not lose a factional kill.

I have never seen mafia claim Vig. I've seen a few SKs claim vig, though. So I guess I'm kind of biased towards that. Couldn't an SK also claim roleblocked, barring them being forced to kill?

Well... SK claiming vig is suicide outside of game being almost immediately winnable. Also claiming RBed stops them from killing (due to multi-kill rule). This takes away the only thing SK has going for them.

After the fakehammer he immediately treats it as a mislynch (another sign he is scum) and tries to set the Hoopla lynch up for the hammer and the claim. He then goes into the JS shoot Hoopla idea, which again as scum is ideal for them, and gives credit to non-IP/Hoopla arguement.

I treated it as a mislynch because of how fast Hoopla "ended the day". I became very suspicious of her for that, until I realized it was a fake hammer. It would make sense for Hoopla-scum to hammer a claimed vig so quickly and that's the first thing I thought when the hammer occured.

Why would scum-hoopla kill the player that looked like they were going to be lynched?

Next idea is almost worst, he says lynch neither, and let scum RB JS. That would leave us with where we were yesterday, regardless of what JS was (if he is SK he is going to not kill and claim RBed) if he is town, it would do massive damage, especially with Hoopla town.

I was considering all options. If Jacob was SK (which he was) or vig, he could act as a roleblock absorber/scum shooter/what have you. Then you and Hoopla convinced me that

Jacob should still be lynched because there was no way to prove him

, so I decided to throw those ideas away.

Ok that is my problem, the bolded. You made your choice on him being proveable, thats what doesnt make sense.

[Furry]

@q21 - Which on Nik-TBM is a better lynch

[Furry]

@nik - Can you point me to a town game or two of yours?

unvote

like initial response... back to deciding between a few others

[Furry]

Never let people cherry pick their games for meta.

It actually is very useful to let someone pick their own games.

[Furry]

@q21 - Which on Nik-TBM is a better lynch

At this point neither is specifically better or worse than the other. Both are scummy to me. I'll make my choice which I think is a better lynch based on how the day unfolds.

What about right now?

[Furry]

*Side note to Hoopla, if you are non-PGO town (ive seen a town PR fakeclaim PGO before), can you claim it please, this can be very useful.

THANKS FOR THE SIDE-NOTE. I SCOFF AT YOUR SUGGESTION I'M FAKE CLAIMING, JUST AS I SCOFF AT YOUR INCREASINGLY BITTER DISPOSITION.

Well I have seen a doctor claim PGO in order to not be NKed. Also when I start having a hard time getting reads I get bitter.

For Hoopla fakeclaiming, the biggest thing against that is presence of a SK. That is what is causing me to hesitate on her alignment a bit, since it creates a paradox of "SK targets PGO".

[Furry]

I would be ok with a TBM lynch, would prefer a little more time to mull over a few other things first though. Also no one hammers before a claim regardless.

[Furry]

Never let people cherry pick their games for meta.

It actually is very useful to let someone pick their own games.

Mind explaing this a little more post game?

Letting people pick their own games when looking for a certain thing is good, as you can compare it to games they did not pick to see if they are intentionally picking games to tailor thier meta.

@Furry:

Want to make a band wagon? All these divergent votes are making me sad.

Would be nice, but I would prefer to see who you vote without my influence first.

[Furry]

My pick for the scum team is TBM, Nikanor and Hoopla.

Nik-TBM is looking like a very good pairing to me actually. I like nik lynch a little more though given his recent change on the TBM front, as I can see this interaction coming from Nik(S)-TBM(S) or Nik(S)-TBM(T)

Vote Nik

[Furry]

@Furry

Nik-TBM is looking like a very good pairing to me actually. I like nik lynch a little more though given his recent change on the TBM front, as I can see this interaction coming from Nik(S)-TBM(S) or Nik(S)-TBM(T)

Not arguing with your vote. As I am convinced that TBM is scum and since I wouldn't be the best person to look at his play in an unbiased light at this point, can you give any points to consider as to why TBM might be town?

Its a mix of nagging doubts detract much more from TBM scum than Nik scum and thinking Nik will be better at talking his way out of something.

TBM should claim though.

[Furry]

In case you didn't notice TBM, Nikanor said this earlier:

If someone puts TBM at L-1 I'll hammer.

See actually, this is the post that made me want a Nik lynch. Go through his posts and watch his opinions of TBMs slot, it actually is quite entertaining.

Also betting the rotating VI slot that is now MS is town.

[Furry]

Tired of waiting for Oso to see what I see.... so im just going to point it all out. Niks on RH/TBM doesnt add up to me.

Like, you know that feeling where you just know that it's two townies going at it in a big argument? That's how I feel about them. That Oso and RH are both town.

If someone puts TBM at L-1 I'll hammer.
....

I said I'd hammer TBM because a) Hoopla was upset and I wanted to make her feel better and b) I have this weird tendency to be wrong most of the time. I figure that if the majority wants it, I can go with a Buttonlynch.

The most interesting thing about these two posts is that there was only one namedrop of TBM from Nik in the meantime in

Also, I'm required to point out that TBM is assuming that Jacob actually is a vig.

Which is a decent suspicion reason, but this is ingored in entirety when pressure is put on TBM later in the game. Instead its an appeal to athority and pre-blame shift stance.

~~~~

Other stuff on Nik

Jacob, let's compromise. If Slepz flips town I'll help you lynch Reck tomorrow. Sound good?

Same thing that caught JS, going to be happy as a clam if it caught two scum. Lets not forget that Nik has a town read on Reck here. Not quite as bad as JS (which is why he was the priority lynch) but still bad.

Aw.
Poor Reck. And he was so townie, too.

This was a massive uneasy feeling post when I read it first and never have been able to shake that feeling off. You can compare it to the old "dang we lost a PR" type tell, but it feels like scum trying to get a "my reads were right, im so town" type post in. Maybe its also because I didnt have that much of a town read on reck as well.

q21: I have a burning desire to lynch Slepz because I like lynching lurkers. There's no way to get a read off them other than by lynching them. And if we show scum that lurking isn't safe on day one, then maybe they'll actually be active for a change, unlike every other game which seems to have the scum lurking to victory.

Amazing cop out. Slepz was a flaker, lurking is continually getting prodded and posting once or twice in between them, or even active lurking. Making a few posts followed by disappearing isnt lurking. Its all you can talk about in regards to this slot, and for the most part the entire game. It does remind me of the old game where we were scum together and most of your cases were lurking based. Also like the current interest in the TBM wagon, you showed previously nonexistant interest (to lynch) in wagons that showed up.

Vote Nik

TBM you are allowed to shamelessly wagon him if you wish, and you should since Slepz/MS is town

[Furry]

Like I said, im sure enough of the TBM lynch to not stop it. I just want a whole lot more opinions on people over the Nik lynch first. This just looks like the case of a really good lynch vs good lynch.

Hmmmm

@Nik - Can you make a nice big post of why TBM is scum for me?

[Furry]

I would prefer Nik does it since he is more likely to be scum... they both can though.

[Furry]

Order doesnt matter, plagerism is easy to spot.

[Furry]

Appologies to the townies watching on, thinking I had gone mental and thrown the game away with a self-vote in lylo. I wish I could have seen your faces.

Untill you were proven town I thought you were scum since I did not see a PGO and SK in the same game as being a real possibility. While you selfvoting made it obvious you were not a PGO (I was guessing bomb/supersaint), that was still one of the funniest things ever.