Mini 999 - Isolated Mafia (Game Over)

[DavidParker]

confirmingggg

[DavidParker]

What's with everyone from my newbie game voting me in RVS!!!!!! NS did same thing

VOTE: AGAR

cuz i'm sad.

[DavidParker]

What's with the huge essays on page 2. I'm not done with RVS. Or Random Bandwagon Stage.

I heard someone say a Michael bandwagon??

VOTE: Michael

[DavidParker]

I've seen people "ignore" or acknowledge questions and not answer them because of their redundancy/worthlessness in some of my earlier games, and have to agree that not every question has to be answered. How you interpret that is up to your own discretion.

[DavidParker]

3 FOSs??? who are you trying to impress??

VOTE: screl

[DavidParker]

Oops, I didn't even realize my vote was an OMGUS. (I guess making it not one, since I was generally under the impression that screl's long post seemed scummy)

He comes in and posts one analytical post basically condemning anyone, and just FoS's everyone.. Seems to be trying a bit too hard to come off as town-aligned, when someone town-aligned would only have a few suspects. And yeah, not impressed by his random vote.

[DavidParker]

Lol, I wasn't worrying just pointing out I didn't realize it was one before people attacked me for it :p

[DavidParker]

I'm more worried about your proposed tunneling of a single player when there's more meaningful discussion that can be had.

[DavidParker]

MD = ?

[DavidParker]

Alright here's my thoughts:

AgaR vs Michel : Well, this whole (useless) argument did give me a fairly good town vibe from both. They were obviously the center of attention for a while, and yes, (wifom aside), that is somewhat uncharacteristic of scum. If someone told me either of these two was scum, I would say michel who seemed to overreact and backpeddle at times in this discussion.

Copper: Keep it coming! very constructive post. +Town points for that at least.

AWA: Jumps on TBM for early bandwagoning, when he wasn't being serious and early bandwagons can be useful for getting discussion started and revealing some good information. Not to mention his explanation of his vote as an "emphasis more than a threat" (ie he voted for him beacuse he didn't like his playstyle rather than he thought he was scummy?)

Screl: Comes in and throws 3 FoS's in a post analyzing the few posters.. Two of those are at AgaR and Michel who had been the center of attention. Seemed very unnecessary as these two were already under focus by everyone, just a redundant FoS that seems like someone trying to get scum tell.

TBM: Well, not a fan of you stating opinion as fact, but that just seems to be how you play.

Rest haven't posted enough to really comment on, unless I'm missing someone.

[DavidParker]

oh wow, that's meant to say
Edit:

crel: Comes in and throws 3 FoS's in a post analyzing the few posters.. Two of those are at AgaR and Michel who had been the center of attention. Seemed very unnecessary as these two were already under focus by everyone, just a redundant FoS that seems like someone trying to get

town points

, a possible scum tell.

[DavidParker]

@Mod: Doesn't screl have 2 votes???

Indeed he does! Fixed.

He's looking scummier by the minute with his reaction at L-5...

[DavidParker]

@Screl: How did you hope to achieve any scum hunting or discussion just by FoS'ing people? I mean it doesn't pressure them at all... You say "FOSs are saved for when youre not sure" but when are you ever sure someone is scum? are you saying you are going to be too reluctant to ever use your vote ?

[DavidParker]

I agree, merlin's lurking when he said he had begun to take the game seriously (could have done a 15minute read through and maybe another 15minute for a quick analysis and to get discussion going), instead he posts some incoherent post, which is utterly useless.

Vote: Merlin

[DavidParker]

Back from V/LA. Thanks for bearing with me; college searches suck.

Dear lord people; conciseness is protown.

Enough with the wall spam.

I'll construct a broader post in a bit, but I find this offensive. Conciseness is decidedly

anti

-town. It allows scum to hide behind strawman arguments, and forces protown players to defends themselves in as few words as possible, when more would be more effective. Just because you're too lazy to read a large post, don't claim that smaller posts are "protown". This is at least the second time you've claimed this. Man up and start playing.

In my true "town following" scummy way (as TBM has pointed out!) I am going to second this. I'm aware I haven't posted any large posts or done much scum hunting yet, a few other of my games are at crucial points where my activity is demanded and this game is still early in day 1, I'm still posting here so discussion and activity doesn't die, but will be more constructive once 2 of my other games get past their crucial stages.

[DavidParker]

Hey guys, I'm alive. Hopefully you all are too. Suddenly gotten very inactive. I've been obsessively rereading another game of mine, and rereading everyone's iso multiple times, because it's at such a crucial point, so activity in this game has suffered somewhat because of it.

Point 1: I don't like all these people who "promised" posts but didn't deliver. It's one thing to post saying you are busy and will post later when you can, but acknowledge you are here and still playing the game. But saying I'll post by tomorrow and it not coming yet.. Maybe i'm confused by timezones, since it's already the 7th here, and those posts are dated the 5th. it is the 6th in the US.. Anyways, this applies to AWA/remuss/Equinox/My Milked Eek (ESPECIALLY milked eek, he said on the 4th he would post by tomorrow). I think at least one of these 4 is scum, quite possible 2 are. It's pretty easy to use this excuse since others are and go unnoticed. At least the inactives like screl admit to lurking (and explain why they are lurking, with an iffy reason, but still a reason). (with that said, a case on screl to come later)

Point 2: Merlin being replaced, so,

Unvote: Merlin

Point 3: Screl, to me, he has been the scummiest so far. Points out an "OMGUS" which meant nothing (was an RVS). He also uses 3 FoS's in the one post. For what purpose!??!?!?! There was no reason to FoS Michel or AgaR, both were already under pressure from one another and discussion from both was happening. Feel free to ask them probing questions, but a FoS?!?!?! What a useless gesture. Either a townie who didn't think it through, or a scum trying to get town credit. Your FoS on AWA was for a justified reason. I liked the start of your case on him, I have no idea why you didn't vote for him. This makes me think you are possibly just unsure of yourself and want to FoS rather than commit to a vote. But at the same time, not voting is just not helping us. Put your vote out there and get people talking and start probing people.

Point 4: So who are the scum! Well, I think the scummiest player so far has been screl. (see point 3). I'm going to choose milked eek as scum as well due to his lurking and promising content and not delivering (being the one who promised first). Further scum, well, I think there'll be a surprise somewhere. I'm thinking maybe Michel. But I'm probably biased because I'm not a fan of the French :p (assuming you are French with that French name, or at least from a French speaking background)

Point 5: So far most genuine pro-town read has come from Copper.

[DavidParker]

Oh, VOTE: Screl

[DavidParker]

Good post, will comment on some points at a later point, but first thing to come to mind: You voted on TBM saying how he is anti-town, but do you find him scummy? While maybe anti-town at times, I don't find TBM as being overly scummy.

[DavidParker]

@Oso: What do you think the main differences between newb scum and newb town are?

[DavidParker]

I think it's a necessary point to address when dealing with screl's play so far in this game.

[DavidParker]

@TBM: I have stated continually that I find screl to be scummy. I believe he is more likely scum than town. That is my response to my question. I thought that was evident from my previous analysis where I label him as scummy.

I posted the first thought directed at a point of OSO's i didn't agree with. Now, having slept (it was 6am after the soccer game last night I was posting :/), I'll post a defense.

Point 1: His case starts by pointing out a post where I random voted when AgaR/Michel's debate had started. Their debate wasn't even really game-related, so I didn't comment on it, or want to get involved in long wall-like posts that aren't even player analysis. My vote was an attempt to get things back on track.

Point 2: With regard to questions, you are saying that an answer I gave regarding playstyle/game theory is scummy? That was just my opinion on the importance of questions and answering all questions to completion. I'd have given the same response regardless of my alignment.

Point 3: Suspecting 3 people isn't scummy in itself. It was the way he FoS'd 2 people already actively posting. I didn't see any purpose or point behind his FoS. Did it put any additional pressure on said players? Very unlikely... I wanted to hear more from him and did find his actions somewhat scummy so I voted for him based on it.

Point 4: Yeah, I agree what I said here doesn't have much merit.

Point 5: Mistaking activity for scumminess? I spend hours at a time on these forums, clicking the "Bookmarks" tab to see if I have any responses to posts of mine and then respond usually promptly (if I am in a period of activeness, ie: then, or like last night I spent 3-4 hours doing this). He responded, and I responded back immediately since he had just 1 concise point made about me and not something that required re-reading or analysis.

Point 6: You just commented on my analysis and opinions.. Having read your case, I'm not convinced agar is scummier than Michel, I think there's points for both.

Point 7: Ugh, if people are going to react like that at L-5, in a mini game, I am going to comment on it.. His reaction was just peculiar, and I don't see how it can be interpreted otherwise.

Point 8: My vote is back on screl. That vote hop was hoping to get some activity (rather naively) out of Merlin, and was unnecessary when I look back at it.

[DavidParker]

So the best you can do is build a case against a lurker?? Wow, how impressive. How about you do some actual scum-hunting now?

[DavidParker]

You...

[DavidParker]

It was a joke. Nothing intended, I'm not getting a scummy vibe from either AgAR or Michel due to them both putting themself in the spotlight, my point was that if someone said one of them was scum that argument led me to get a scummier vibe from Michel than AgaR, which was solely based off the feeling and tone of their posts, not from the content or anything. I'm not claiming to have a case on either or going to quote reasons as to why Michel is scummier (that's not what I'm saying), just commenting on the feeling I got. It was really a moot point, that I just put in there for fun. This is a game after all.

[DavidParker]

@Oso: Here is my take on screl and his vote-

1) If MME doesn't become more active or get replaced he's going to be our correct lynch for today. However, that won't logically happen, as he will be replaced if he doesn't become more active, or if he becomes more active he may or may not be a lynch-worthy player.
2) I enjoyed your psycho-babble distraction regarding my questions. Really. (Not). Screl's vote is useless on a lurker at this point. If town agrees towards deadline, if MME doesn't become more active, we should vote him out. Lurking is anti-town. If he does plan on returning, if he is town, he has a legitimate reason for lurking, if he is scum he may as well have a legitimate reason for lurking, or he may be active lurking, but will come in and lie once he is about to be replaced and say he has a legitimate reason.
3) What's my point? Why vote for a lurker at this point? He's not going to react to it, or do anything about it. Even when he comes back, he will make an excuse that's believable if he is scum. If we were nearing deadline and getting serious about a lynch, suggesting that MME is the optimal lynch for day 1 (if no super-scummy players have presented themselves) is a reasonable argument. But at this point when we don't seem to be steering ourselves quite towards a lynch yet, screl's vote is far more useful elsewhere pressuring myself/you/AWA etc, and he didn't even attempt to further scum-hunt.

It's a bit too easy for screl, assuming he's scum, to come in, post a vote on someone for lurking and promising to post within 24 hours (when they didn't) and not do any other scum hunt, but assume he has won enough town-cred for the day by simply voting for someone who didn't uphold a promise to post content, which is a no-tell at best.

Now look at him. He is attempting to contribute by talking about reasons of remuss vs MME in terms of who has lurked more/is more scummy.. Who cares? until they are replaced or get back, nothing can be done. If they are active lurking, they can continue to do so until they are about to be replaced or get pressured. Until then, pressure someone who is actually here. He also, seems to actually believe they are actively lurking.. From past experience they are more likely actually away/busy that lurking intentionally. Yes, there's a chance they are actively lurking, but the fact you want us to all ignore everyone else and put multiple votes on these players because they MIGHT be lurking is ridiculous. Stick to the players who are here.

[DavidParker]

And it's not like his stance has been the same for practically the entire game or anything.. Oh wait.

Will post my comments later tonight on everything, about to head out.

[DavidParker]

well... i feel like i should claim.. hopefully it doesn't have to come to that, but once someone posts their intent to hammer me i'll claim..

[DavidParker]

besyand bit toomuch drink will post later tomorrowerr cuse worldcup night long here

[DavidParker]

Well, I'm the cop, don't know my sanity, but I was trying to "town follow" as you described it because I didn't want to seem too pro-town and end up getting killed on one of the first few nights.. That's why I haven't tried to push anything apart from screl who has been obviously scummy (to me at least)

[DavidParker]

i'm actually serious this time :/

[DavidParker]

Also,
@ALL (apart from AgaR/ACM): the reason for agAR's post was because in 2 previous games I have claimed a PR as a VT. With that said, that's a meta of mine, I have realized doesn't work on this site..

[DavidParker]

Oh wow, I somehow got ACM and TBM mixed up. They seem so similar.

[DavidParker]

Oh, mine as well sorry :/


This claim is different from the previous, as in my previous game where I claimed cop it was my first game on mafiascum.net and I was under a lot of pressure early for my arrogance that I put on. I was trying to have fun and mess around a bit (while playing to win) because that's how all games were played on the site I played mafia on before this site. I soon found out that things were done differently :/

[DavidParker]

newbie 965: http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=14261

not my finest hour : )

[DavidParker]

To clarify one thing quickly, I believe lurkers to be the correct day 1 lynch AT THE END OF THE DAY, assuming no one of a scummier nature has presented themself. You voted for a lurker at the start-middle of day 1 which stuck out to me.

[DavidParker]

Haha, as soon as I made my claim I thought of the boy who cried "wolf!"

[DavidParker]

Hi guys, I'm still here. Had a very busy last couple of days, and 3-4 more to come. So will be around a bit, but won't be able to spend as much time as I normally would on this game.

With that said:
Recent thoughts: I still find screl scummy. Although he has seemed less scummy of recent, when he posted his reluctance to hammer, when there were a number of people who wouldn't have thought anything of it. However, that could just be him knowing that if he hammer'd me, he'd then be under even greater pressure on the following day for mislynching a claimed PR... So, I still find him scummiest, although he has started to bring up some good points of discussion.

Oso: Has just jumped to the top of my town reads. Why? Because he has been the first one to legitimately ignore the two easy bandwagons presented. Now why do I think this makes him town?? Because if we leave day 1 with only 2 people having been legitimately pressured, and one of them lynched, then we have a lack of information going into day 2 (especially if scum decide to nightkill me, because they don't have a roleblocker).. By launching another attack on someone, he has actually widened the scum-hunting scope beyond the 2 players everyone else in the game has focused on. (including myself, as i've just had to defend myself, and only suspected screl really). I think not so much his vote (as alone it doesn't mean much to Michel), but the accusation he has presented (Michel, please respond) will lead to some useful discussion for tomorrow.

I think the amount of lurkers has made it hard to expand our scope. As it stands, I think we should hold out on lynching, and give as much time as possible to find replacements. If it comes to end of day phase, and there has been player(s) lurking all game I would be willing to lynch screl or one of the lurkers (as previously stated, I think a policy lynch for someone who lurked all of day 1 is sometimes necessary, as much as it isn't ideal)

[DavidParker]

I'm wary as to how big screl's wagon got so quickly (even with 2-3 lurkers)... Basically everyone here has either been on my wagon or screl's wagon. And that's with AWAY/sotty/milked eek lurking excessively.

The deadline is in 4 days.
@Oso: Do you actually think a Michel lynch could logistically occur today with the limited time? This has been the first time he has been under pressure. Due to the speed of the screl wagon, and it not breaking up, my gut is leading towards him not being scum, but he is flailing around a lot as if he was scum. I would support either a screl/Michel lynch or if we want to play the game "safer" a lynch on one of the lurkers. (MME....)

[DavidParker]

I am going to have to say that posting a big case in an attempt to kill a claimed PR (ON DAY 1 !?!?!?) is nonsensical behaviour and definitely scummy. He based it entirely on meta saying that I'm more likely VT or scum than cop... Based on one completed game where I claimed cop.. Hint: That was my first game here Michel.. If you want I can link you to my previous games played on a different site, where I have claimed a PR almost EVERY game I was a VT. My meta has changed to accommodate to playing games on this site.

Vote: Michel

[DavidParker]

I am going to have to say that posting a big case in an attempt to kill a claimed PR (ON DAY 1 !?!?!?) is nonsensical behaviour and definitely scummy. He based it entirely on meta saying that I'm more likely VT or scum than cop... Based on one completed game where I claimed cop.. Hint: That was my first game here Michel.. If you want I can link you to my previous games played on a different site, where I have claimed a PR almost EVERY game I was a VT. My meta has changed to accommodate to playing games on this site.

Vote: Michel

We know you're claiming to be the cop. Stop town-following, cop.

fixed

[DavidParker]

Where are you Screl? Claim, you are at L-1 and will probably be lynched.

no he's not. now stop rolefishing!

[DavidParker]

I stated clearly before I wanted to make sure a lynch happened today. I will be around close to deadline to make sure my vote is moved to the biggest "bandwagon" if it looks like a no lynch might happen.

[DavidParker]

I only have 3 or so completed games on this site, one of which I subbed into day 3 as doctor. One game I claimed cop and the other I was a VT who died night 1, but then subbed in later for a VT.

Anyways: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... =2&t=14287
I die night 1 (as VT), but sub in to replace a VT on day 2, and later claim to be VT (no one had claimed doctor or cop yet)

And what makes you think it's likely I am a VT?

[DavidParker]

I stated clearly before I wanted to make sure a lynch happened today. I will be around close to deadline to make sure my vote is moved to the biggest "bandwagon" if it looks like a no lynch might happen.

Then why did you jump onto the MichelSableheart bandwagon?

Also, why did you wait until people started voting him before doing so yourself?

Because someone else posted a case against Michel regarding something I hadn't thought of? By voting with him, it actually pressures Michel some more, rather than if no one joined in, he can just shrug it off. Also, it makes sense I agree with Oso's case as opposed to you guys, because I know of my own alignment, whereas you guys may still question whether or not I am scum, so would be less likely to think he is scum trying to kill a PR, if you think the PR is scum.. Whereas, I know i'm not scum, so I do believe he may have been trying to day 1 lynch a PR.

As to your first question. We still have 2 days?? I'm more than willing to move my vote back to screl, I just thought a Michel wagon might kick off, and screl's latest posts have a sort of newb-town vibe to them, although his constant flailing and early game scumminess is hard to ignore.

Vote: screl

[DavidParker]

FoS AWA

Pretending a player has been hammered to make a case?? lolwut!?

@screl: please claim.

[DavidParker]

you don't need to unvote

[DavidParker]

@Awa: Are you saying you would hammer regardless of his claim?

[DavidParker]

Arguing pedantics now?

I refer to myself as a claimed PR because from the view of a town I am a claimed PR. I acknowledge that others will not see me as an actual PR, and a possible VT or scum.

What's intriguing to me right now is AWA saying he will hammer screl as soon as he claims.. What's the point of a claim if you are dead set on hammering? You may as well just hammer him and see what he flips then.. This isn't some bastard mod game.

[DavidParker]

Just post final thoughts and hammer I think, i don't see any other lynch happening today, and there is definitely a strong enough scum case on screl.

[DavidParker]

@TBM: What do you think can be gained my further extending this day phase?? With only a day or two left, it's unlikely a different lynch would occur. Do you plan on pressuring/questioning other people to try get more information?

I'll respect your un-willingness to hammer and

Unvote

in case AWA tries to hammer.

[DavidParker]

Vote: screl

[DavidParker]

I was expecting more information before the end of the day from the likes of TBM/possibly don, but TBM voting basically told me he had nothing further to add (when he previously said he might add something) so I revoted. The initial unvote was because AWA has posted an intent to hammer (not that I disagree) and I wanted to make sure additional information had come out, as I had found TBM somewhat scummy earlier, and was interested in how he would deal with this hammer situation. Screl's flip will hopefully tell us something (and hopefully be scum...)

[DavidParker]

/spams refresh?

[DavidParker]

Hey guys, last night I checked Michel (not Michael :p) and got a scum result.

Vote: Michel

[DavidParker]

I have more to add but right now I'm preparing for a big night out so not the best time

Also,

@everyone: In these 12 players games, is it more common to have 3 scum or 2 scum? I remember seeing a thread in MD about how 3 scum in these 12 players games is imba, and scum have like a 70% win ratio recently or something. Mostly bringing it up because our perfect game might be complete today if my result is true!

[DavidParker]

5% scum read on me and 3% scum read on Michel?!?!?!? i guess that makes us the least scummy players in the game AWYAAAWA because as it is tere are only 10 players left so assuming 3 scum, theres a 1/5 chance a randmoly chosen player is scum (ie: 20%.. ) so where did these strong town-reads of both of us come from?G?G Anywans im a bit drunk just go thome.

but

FOS : AWA

Although would love to see wher emy investigation of michel leads.

[DavidParker]

Yeah, I was simply put off by such a forced comment by AWA... Saying he is 5% of 3% scum reads on us, is saying he has a strong town read on us!?!? I think it was more bad wording/grammar, but it could be a slip-up.

I agree that we shouldn't rush into lynching Michel, the reason I put my vote there right away is because I have more information than everyone else and KNOW I'm the cop, and thus, want to push a lynch on Michel. I think chances are I'm more likely a sane cop than a non-sane cop, and I'm aware if it turns out I'm not a sane-cop it's probably my head tomorrow, but hopefully I can get a useful result tonight as well.

Anyways, Michel's actions yesterday also, to some extent, seem quite scummy. As don_johnson said, there's almost definitely 1 scum in the 3 people screl FoS'd.

[DavidParker]

I don't buy MS's defense. It's too calm and measured. Wouldn't expect a wrongly accused townie to do that.

This.

[DavidParker]

hey guys sorry, midnight here, just got home, bit smashe n shittt, just posting before i sleeepesss. i was roleblcoked tonight anwyasys, so i t seems im prob best lynch today to test whether im cop or not and i understand taht, since i wasnt roleblocked night 1.

[DavidParker]

As said, I'm easily the best lynch for today, it didn't make sense even to myself.

Vote: DavidParker

I think both AWA and DJ have stood out as likely scum.

[DavidParker]

Oh wow.

Vote: AWA

Lynch all who bring up jester speculation is a policy of mine.

[DavidParker]

I already said, I'm the best lynch for today, I knew that as soon as I got my result back... So go ahead and hammer.

[DavidParker]

If it'll make someone hammer sooner, sure.

[DavidParker]

Well, everyone I've seen gets abused for self-hammering as town, but if someone else on my wagon wants me to, I'll gladly do it in my next post.

[DavidParker]

Vote: DavidParker

[DavidParker]

meh.