Mini 967 - Mafia War (Over)

[Blackberry]

Confirming. I'm going to read up first.

[Blackberry]

Quick update: going to bed now, have to get up early. I have a few thoughts and ideas. I'm keeping my suspects open until I've read the entire thread. I was going to say something, but to keep it simple: I want to hear Exemption's claim.

[Blackberry]

I am really eager to throw my input out there, but I am going to be smart and wait for Exemption's claim.

[Blackberry]

((What does DPM mean? O_o))

I am a Townie Doctor.

Looking at the roles that turned up (The first Mafia having a Godfather and a Doctor) got me thinking. Had Exemption claimed Cop I would have believed that both him and EmpKing were both COPS, but that one was the mafia's cop (A set-up with two mafias, one with a cop and one with a doctor has been a set-up I had considered using for my own game back in the day, I do not know if I have seen it used before, although I'm sure it has been). However, because EmpKing has claimed Cop and no one else has, I now trust EmpKing (I'll get to this in a second), although I still believe one of the other three of you is a mafia cop.

The first Mafia consisted of a Godfather and a Doctor. Godfather typically has one or both of two abilities - come up innocent to mafia and/or be protected from nightkills. If that team already had a Doctor on it, there is no sense in the Godfather being night immune when the Godfather is the only person the doctor could protect. Therefore the Godfather role must be there to protect from Cop investigations.

To me, a setup with one mafia w/ a cop, one mafia w/ a doctor, and just a doctor doesn't make sense (I obviously know what my role is, although I understand it's not necessairly the same way you all see things). A setup with a mafia w/ a cop, mafia w/ a doctor, a town cop and town doctor makes more sense to me. Thus why I am leaning towards certainty (not 100% granted, but I have no reason to question it) that EmpKing is telling the truth.

EmpKing

- have you used your role on me on any nights by any chance? /-what information have you gathered?

Also, lastly, I will admit I haven't finished reading the thread yet. I got to Page 10. Seeing that we were waiting for Exemption anyways, I decided to hold off on finishing my read through. I will finish my read-through today. I have some small things to do, I shall return later/throughout the day hopefully.

[Blackberry]

You think there's a scum cop because there's a godfather?

That is not what I said. I said I think there is a real cop because there is a Godfather. The fact that EmpKing was the only one to admit to being cop makes me think he is the real townie cop.

I said my reasoning for thinking there is a scum cop is because I had thought up a setup before with two mafias, one having a cop and one having a doctor. If you are town, I would appreciate you taking your time and reading things more carefully.

And you claimed doctor in a multi-ball setup and didn't claim your targets?

I am not sure what multi-ball means. If you are referring to the fact that I did not claim my targets at this time it is because I want to test EmpKing to see if he knows anything. If you are referring to the idea that people I've targeted are more likely to be clear because two nights only 1 person died, that is cancelled out by the fact there was a mafia doctor, there were two mafias potentially firing at eachother, and that there was a Godfather (and presumably another one).

[Blackberry]

I'm not really sure what you're saying about if one of my targets is still alive - even if I did protect right, why can't it be that I protected a MAFIA from the other mafia's kill?

One of my save targets WAS mafia. One of my targets is still alive.

And holding this to "confirm" Empking makes my teeth itch.

You realize Empking could be faking it, if he does claim watcher/tracker on me and tries to fake his information, that will prove him as a liar. However, his previous posts suggest to me that he may have some sort of info, whether it be a cop investigation, or watcher or tracker thing.

...

SpyreX, what is the point of a Godfather if there isn't a cop of any sort and the Godfather's partner only ability is to protect the Godfather?

[Blackberry]

I was about to post... then I realize you said No Result and not No Target. O_o

[Blackberry]

Do you mean No Result as in no result whatsoever, or as in, No Target?

Also - do you have any other information for us?

[Blackberry]

Whats the point of a Godfather if the parallel is a other-side mafia that can find 1 scum? and a one shot cop?

You COULD have protected mafia from a kill but even that information makes more sense than not.

And, like I said, I'll acquiesce until empking comes in before I push for the rest.

A) I didn't understand what you meant by one-shot cop, then I realized what JOAT was (I originally looked it up and saw Jack of All Trades, I didn't realize though that all their abilties are one-shot, I thought it was just a "choose which one you use tonight" thing). You do make a point of it though. If there isn't actually a Cop, the Godfather doesn't really make sense. I don't know, I don't get why a Godfather would be there if he already has nightkill protection and the only "Cop" can only investigate once? This has got me rethinking. I am waivering now on what to think of EmpKing, but his answers to my questions will assist us greatly.

B) I don't understand why EmpKing would wait to reveal his other information, why didn't you say anything about your Night 1 or Night 2?

C) EmpKing, do you believe my claim? - what is your role name?

((SpyreX, refrain from posting until EmpKing answers - trust me))

[Blackberry]

Ok, I got what I was looking for.

Earlier EmpKing claimed "The Detective" and now he is claiming Townie Detective (this is what I was looking for, if he responded that his role name was The Detective, I would have called it as BS - this is why I asked SpyreX not to say anything yet, because I had the impression when I asked EmpKing that question SpyreX would be the type of guy to say "He already said his rolename, etc." when I didn't want too much attention to be drawn to that question).

EmpKing - the reason I asked if you believed my claim is because I claimed

Townie

Doctor.

If your role is as you say it is (Townie Detective) you should then believe me (if I was fakeclaiming, I wouldn't/shouldn't know to put the word Townie in front of Doctor).

How often in games are Doctors referred to as "TOWNIE Doctor."

Here is my Night Actions:

N1 - Deadjoker
N2 - SpyreX
N3 - No Target (I asked mod about this, it was due to inactivity)

...

At this point, EmpKing is either fakeclaiming and is really a Mafia Tracker (and he was really quick to catch on that I claimed Townie Doctor and decided to add "Townie" Detective to his claim -- although what does slightly bug me is that if he is the Townie Detective, why not realize instantly that my claim of Townie Doctor indicates I am telling the truth? - at this point I think he is telling the truth, that may change).

Or, if he is telling the truth, we have a Mafia Roleblocker on the remaining mafia squad.

...

Btw, on Hrezs, his post of "Let's just lynch Exemption today despite what he claims" struck me as odd. I'll be honest, I haven't sat down and finished reading the entire thread, I have notes on every player (SpyreX was who I've had the most notes on, probably because the other players didn't talk as much). I will finish reading after I do a few more things that I need to do on this forum, and I'll get back to this. I will then post what I think.

[Blackberry]

I've read through a bit more, watching a tv show, will come on after to finish my read through and post my thoughts hopefully.

[Blackberry]

Ok, I finally finished my reading (I am a procrastinator, I apologize). I have a few questions. One person I am leaning towards as mafia, One person I was leaning someone as town, but I could see the possibility of me being wrong, and the other two I am not sure. I am going to go back and see who interacted with who and who avoided who. I think for me, the BEST way for me to get information on you all is to answer my questions that I have. If you are a town, I would prefer you to answer my questions in depth (AKA DO NOT POST A SHORT SENTENCE). If you are a town, it is in your best interest to assist others in getting a good read off of you. Even if you *think* I am scum, still answer my questions in an in-depth response so that A) regardless of whether you think I am mafia or not just trying to ask questions, if you are town, there is atleast one other townie out there that needs to get a good read on you, B) Making longer and giving more insight into your thoughts gives everyone a better read on you, the only people who wouldn't want to do this are mafia. I am actually typing a lot in here that I was going to write after my initial questions, but I'll just do it all at once so my related-thoughts are all together.

Hrezs

I believe (I could be mistaken) looks for very simular things as I do (or atleast, his quote is something that I myself would say). I look for people being genuine (in my case, I look at what words people use, how they use their words, whether they are really voting people they are genuinely suspscious us) and the best way I can do that is if you provide a detailed response of your in-depth thoughts. So don't hold back. I am fearful that (as I've run into this in the past) a townsperson may see my question as me suspecting them and they get defensive and end up not answering my questions (thus why I am asking for an in-depth, non-short response). We're at a very critical point. Two people left are scum, one wrong lynch and it is game over. So basically, answer my questions with openness and honesty, and type whatever comes to mind so I can decide whether I feel your

thinking process

is genuine or if you're a mafia trying to fake it.

Hrezs, I would like to know your opinion of the claims and your reaction.

CSL, I would like to know your ideas after your read-through.

EmpKing, your being short in every post bugs me a bit (and when I say bugs, I don't mean "I think you're scum" I mean, it is hard for me to tell whether that is you being scum OR if that is just your general playstyle). I can't read someone if they don't have much to say. In your last post, I would have thought you to say something along the lines of "Oh, ya, you did claim a Townie Doctor, and I am claimnig a Townie Detective, that makes you look more clear" or something. But you didn't even comment on that. ((Also in my read-through, you asked a lot of questions, however, you never actually gave a lot of RESPONES or REACTIONS when people answered your questions -- how are we supposed to get a good read out of you?))

EmpKing: Why were you on SpyreX the second night?

SpyreX: I actually can't think of anything to ask you right now that I'm interested in hearing. If you want to give me your current and detailed thoughts, that would be great. Not sure what "going into overdrive" means exactly.

At this point, there is one person I'm fairly confident is scum (his response will either deepen my suscpious or make me less confident), the other three of you, I keep thinking of things that would say "Ok, he isn't scum because of this" or "Ok, he is scum because of this." The answers to my questions and comments will help me a lot. There are two people (I keep rethinking things and changing my mind, lol, that I am LEANING towards as town based on some ideas and theories, there is one person I have no idea about, and one person I am leaning as mafia).

After I get answers to my comments/questions, I will be more than happy to express ALL my ideas and thoughts from my rereads. I have some theories/ideas that make me think "this could be what is going on" and some that contradict it "if he was mafia he wouldn't do that"... and I will lay those all out after these responses.

[Blackberry]

You have nothing to ask me that you're interested in hearing?

And you're playing tight to the chest AGAIN at lylo?

I'm not playing "tight to the chest" if I say I'm going to reveal it in a short bit.

SpyreX: I actually can't think of anything to ask you right now that I'm interested in hearing. If you want to give me your current and detailed thoughts, that would be great. Not sure what "going into overdrive" means exactly.

[Blackberry]

oh
and horror's no action is kinda hmm
since he pmed the mod during night

All I know is that the no action was due to inactivity. I really can't speak for more than that. Reading horror's other games, it looks like he posted the same message in all the other threads. I expect he wasn't paying too much attention and assumed the replacement would be able to take his night action? Although, in all honesty, this is something that would concern me if I was one of you. Would it be possible to ask the Mod to confirm in thread that horror didn't do anything game related last night? At this point I'm either one of two things: Doctor telling the Truth, or Mafia telling a lie. Either way, it would indicate I may have some sort of action last night, so asking the mod to confirm that horror didn't do anything game-related last night wouldn't tell anything about my

alignment

, just that I'm not lying on that aspect (for example, even if I was mafia, saying horror didn't do anything game-related doesn't clear me of being mafia, because the mafia partner could have sent in the kill - it would hypothetically be possible that as a mafia I had an ability and wasn't able to use that ability last night - so if the moderator answered that publically, it wouldn't reveal anything about my alignment - just that I'm telling the truth that horror didn't do anything game related last night).

...

Also, you made a comment about me not claiming doc targets, when I indicated I was

waiting

to claim Doc Targets. How is that a scummy thing at all? At the moment my top priority was seeing if I could catch (Empking) in a lie, had I done so I would have known he was the scum (from my point of view) and known who to argue agains't and convince the rest of you to vote. My top priority was not trying to clear myself, as that doesn't help me determine which of you is mafia.

Also, based on Metagaming, why wouldn't I be cleared (and why would Empking be cleared)? I was the one that mentioned my role was

Townie

Doctor. EmpKing's claim later that he is a Townie Detective either means A) he confirms my Townie rolename or B) otherwise states he is mafia realizing there is a "townie" before the power role-name and added that, which in the worst case scenario, means I could only be mafia if he was my partner and we were both faking it.

...

CSL hasn't really changed my opinion and its possible that he's just avoiding catching up to not make any connections and help his teammate out.

I am not trying to defend CSL here (as he is one of my main suspects), but just for reference: When I was trying to do my read-through, I genuinely procrastinated it and only did short bits at a time because I had a lot of other things to do and I didn't have a block of time to sit down and read through everything.

Although, I don't understand the

"V/LA from playing until my head clears"

- that does sound more than just lazy/procrastinating.

Regardless, I want to hear CSL speak. If CSL is a townie I think he would owe us his ideas and thoughts so we could get a good read on him. So the "V/LA" statement really doesn't help at all. Although, I genuinely do not think a mafia player would "avoiding catching up to not make any connections and help his teammate out" - although I could be mistaken (it's just something I know I wouldn't do - and I don't think any smart players would either) - I could, however, see him thinking he is doomed regardless and be too lazy to do anything because he knows he's doomed.

Also - I just wanted to address those comments of Hresz. I am now going to pull up my notes and post all my thoughts and reveal my cards of who I think is what.

[Blackberry]

Wait a sec.

Horror said he PM'ed the mod at night and there was no action?

For reals?

Would it be possible to ask the Mod to confirm in thread that horror didn't do anything game related last night? At this point I'm either one of two things: Doctor telling the Truth, or Mafia telling a lie. Either way, it would indicate I may have some sort of action last night, so asking the mod to confirm that horror didn't do anything game-related last night wouldn't tell anything about my alignment, just that I'm not lying on that aspect (for example, even if I was mafia, saying horror didn't do anything game-related doesn't clear me of being mafia, because the mafia partner could have sent in the kill - it would hypothetically be possible that as a mafia I had an ability and wasn't able to use that ability last night - so if the moderator answered that publically, it wouldn't reveal anything about my alignment - just that I'm telling the truth that horror didn't do anything game related last night).

Did you not see this part?

[Blackberry]

** I'll give you my initial thoughts, and then my current thoughts:

1) First coming into the game, I see Hrezs post about lynching Exemption regardless of what he claims. This immediately rose as a red flag for me. However, reading through things, I actually do agree that Exemption/CSL is scum. Whether Hrezs is bussing or is just really confident in his suspcion, I am not sure.

2) After my original readthrough, I thought Hrezs was town, Exemption was mafia, and SpyreX and Empking I was unsure of, but leaning more towards SpyreX because he indirectly defend Exemption, as I point out below. I do think SpyreX could be mafia. However, there is one detail that makes me think I could be wrong. He was adament that he had three town reads on people: (Me, Stef, and Deadjoker). Now, even if he was a mafia, I think he was being genuine. Why? Because mafia are actually genuinely scumhunting up to this point, as they want to kill off the other mafia too. And from last night's kill, we know the remaining mafia killed Deadjoker. So, if SpyreX is mafia (who obviously wants to get rid of the other mafia)- WHY would you kill someone you don't think is in the other mafia? That didn't make sense to me. Although, relooking at things, Stef was a target of one of the mafia's (although, it could have been the dead mafia) the night before. It's possible that if SpyreX was mafia he was avoiding killing the other mafia for whatever reason (BUT THIS MAKES NO SENSE TO ME).

Below are some of my notes. I DID delete some things because I changed my mind on some stuff (on whether or not it says anything about their alignment in my opinion) or because I didn't feel it was strong enough (I do feel that sometimes I will mix up playstyle/personality with whether I think someone is genuine, and I have to take that into account sometimes).

Zodiark / Hrezs
~ Post 26, “hypocrisy much” sounds over-defensive
~ Post 93, almost seems townish in this post
~ Post 177, words like “Ridiculous” are words that, in my opinion, scum use (but this is also dependable on personality)
~ Post 182, this last line “Maybe in response to my post he'll accuse me of being antitown and then I'll gain a vote”, seems like something mafia would say as a tactic to intimidate someone not to vote them

~ As someone who appears to use the same strategy as me (look for people who aren’t being genuine) – I don’t get why you didn’t call out Exemption’s Post 260

~ Post 358, The word “Weak” is something I consider scum to use to make town look bad
~ Post 448, him actually checking and looking at the VC analysis suggests he is actually looking for scum… however, at this point, there are still two mafia teams, so even if Hrezs is scum, he’d genuinely be looking for other mafia, thus, a null point

Pman / Spyrex
~ Post 48, comments on Empking, I agree with what pman says, but maybe it is a scum-scum relationship defending eachother
~ +, “There is something weird going on with Exemption with his hypocrisy over Unsight's post. I would like him to explain that.” … something with this doesn't sit well with me
~ Post 75, I agree with him that, “I am more than happy to let him defend himself, but if suspicions are put on someone whom I do not find suspicious, I will defend them.”… although at that early in the game, I am unsure whether I would defend someone… I was going to say I think it’d be too early, but if I really tried to put myself in those shoes, I think I would defend someone if I thought they were being accused by suspicious people
~ Just noting, 345, he is indirectly defending Exemption, by attacking the person who is attacking Exemption
~ Post 386, “Am I scum with horror?” – this strikes me as odd…

Exemption
~ Post 33, slips in attack at Unsight, “loving the plan you have there” seems unusual to me
~ Post 96 “isn’t everything” seems odd to me
~ Post 106 “Oh and…” doesn’t seem to me like something town would say,

~ Post 260, “Oh self vote ” – why would you be sad your suspect voted themselves? Sad indicates you feel bad that they did that, if you are town and think someone is scum, them self-voting would make you happy because it indicates you are right, which, Exemption did claim to think, “well I think that is the icing on the cake of why we should lynch you.”

--> This is the main thing I think indicates that he is scum (in my opinion). A sincere townsperson would be happy (:) not a ).

Empking
~ Post 27, “Slightly serious” gives me a town feel
~ Post 42, “serious vote”, yet doesn’t say a lot/give enough reasoning
~ Post 70 feels too aggressive to me, same with 74
~ Post 89, lots of thoughts, not sure what to make of them all, are they all genuine concerns or just trying to spread the love? ~ reread this, something is in there
~ #145, This and his last couple of posts, have all been questions, but no actual input from EmpKing, I think it is more productive to give your input after someone answers a question, rather than just asking questions to people
~ Still barely adding anything

My overall: Ok, originally I thought Exemption was mafia and all three of the others seemed like town. Rereading and rethinking everything I am not sure

at all

(obviously at least one of the three of you is mafia).

When I wrote my other long post/was on last, Hrezs struck me as the most townish (I will admit, him blantly saying he plays the game the same way I did gives me a huge bias towards him being town, but I realize a mafia could say that too - so I am testing to see if he

acts

the way he claims he is playing). Reading through things, I can't remember why I thought this at the time. Probably because Empking hasn't done anything for me to get a good read on him, and the fact that he wants to lynch who I suspect the most (obviously this could be bussing).

SpyreX's recent posts seem like small jabs to get a mislynch (I know I am clear, so I know he is barking up a wrong tree - something I know mafia would attempt to be doing at this point - although rereading his questions - I am not really sure if I am just reading his personality as something unusual to me). Like I said though, if he is mafia, that means he targetted someone he claimed to think was town (wouldn't mafia want to target people they think are mafia?).

As I've mentioned before, my problem with Empking is that he hasn't posted enough of his own thoughts for me to get a read on him. However, I do believe his claim. Although, JOAT strikes me as odd, I was expecting there to be a Cop (especailly with a Godfather). From my point of view (knowing I am the doctor), fighting two mafia groups, it makes sense for there to be a Doctor and JOAT rather than just a Doctor.

Exemption strikes me as the most scummy.

...

Although the thing that frustrates me, is the fact that I claimed

Townie

Doctor, Empking later says "Oh yeah, I am the

Townie

Detective" and nobody (EmpKing has not admitted it, Hrezs has not admitted it, SpyreX is trying to throw in small jabs and has not admitted it) indicates that as a tell that I am telling the truth.

...

Originally coming on, before I read anything, the current posts by Hrezs and EmpKing make me think maybe they're a scum pair.

Rereading, I thought SpyreX and Exemption could be a scum pair (partly due to Exemption doing nothing townworthy, and the fact that I had atleast a small post where I thought it was a genuine town player on both Hrezs and Empking, and because I believe EmpKing's claim).

Rethinknig everything, Hrezs not mentioning my

townie

doctor claim makes me unsure if they are genuinely playing the game - also the fact that he didn't call out Exemption for being insincere when using a sad face in his reaction to a self-vote.

And I feel slightly wary of Empking, although I believe his claim, he hasn't actually done anything to make me think he is town (because I can't get a read on him). And if he does turn up mafia I'll feel really bad for not calling him out on it.

...

Hrezs' (and everyone else's) response to this will greatly determine whether I think he is mafia or not. After my last post, Hrezs still suspecting me makes

me

think you are genuinely reading people's playstyle (for the reasons I've mentioned).

...

Also, I realize I am throwing a lot of thoughts out there. Overall, I am not confident in any of my ideas right now (one wrong lynch and the game is over - and I want to be confident in my judgments, and I don't feel like that will happen). Something about Hrezs not reading me as town makes me think he is mafia (almost a gut-thing). SpyreX almost seems to me at times that he is trying to get jabs in at me and get me lynched. Empking hasn't done ANYTHING to allow me to get a good read on him - and him not yet admitting that me claiming Townie Doctor and him claiming his role is actually Townie Detective and not saying that that makes him think I am sincere doesn't sit well with me either.

[Blackberry]

That doesn't change anything. The part I forgot is where horror say he PM'ed the mods.

Which I'm looking for and don't see?

The moderator mentions it in a post when he says horror asks for a replacement.

Reading through horror's last posts, it seems he sent the same exact message in forums where he was playing a game on the

14th

~ so I am assuming this is when he PMed it to the moderator - (with the night ending on the 15th).

[Blackberry]

I'm not jabbing and I thought it was very clear - if it wasn't for horror and the feel I got from him I'd want you dead to rights after that bizarro godfather business.

I don't think you've made yourself clear, because all of your comments have a slight "jab" that you think I could be mafia either by asking a question or making a comment about my claims. Also, what is the "bizarro godfather business?"

----------

Tack onto that this new business with PMing the mod at night AND NOT submitting an action and I'm not thrilled.

If people are considering voting me because of the fact that horror PMed the mod but did not submit any night action, I could write a fairly convincing argument to the mod asking him to make it public knowledge that horror did not do anything last night (and that it does not indicate what my alignment is).

[Blackberry]

Let me get this straight:

A) Your more suspcious of other people but you're voting me?

B) You are casting a vote this early at Lynch or Lose? especially after I said I think I could convince the mod to post in the thread that horror didn't do anything game-related? You don't want to wait to see if that is the case?

C) If you're town, you really should unvote. Although, at this point, you behavior of voting me when you suspect other people more - doesn't make any sense as you being town.

[Blackberry]

Just to reference something else I pointed out in my readthrough

~ Post 177, words like “Ridiculous” are words that, in my opinion, scum use (but this is also dependable on personality)

...

The whole townie thing is the fact that, if I was mafia, how would I know to roleclaim "Townie Doctor" vs. regular "Doctor".

Empking has confirmed that his role is "Townie Detective" not just "The Detective."

[Blackberry]

First off, you never answered my "Godfather bizarro" question.

A) Your more suspcious of other people but you're voting me?

Actually I'm the most suspicious of you but horror's townieness, like I've said, is what gave me pause.

I don't know if I buy this. Also, you haven't answered Hrezs question of why you thought horror gave off a town vibe. If you are mafia, I could see you as teaming up with someone to A) gain their trust and B) make you look better. And your asking someone if you think myself and you are scum together struck me as odd as well.

B) You are casting a vote this early at Lynch or Lose? especially after I said I think I could convince the mod to post in the thread that horror didn't do anything game-related? You don't want to wait to see if that is the case?

Ohh yea this is really early. How about you get on that "convincing the mod to change the state of the game" hail mary. Now if another vote from one of the lurkers pops up well we'll see but the chances of that happening before the heat death of the universe are slim.

You think it'd be "convincing the mod to change the state of the game" if he confirmed horror didn't send in a night action? I disagree completely.

I think it'd be unfair if the moderator did the following:

A) Replaced someone into the game (at this point, I'm either a DOCTOR or a lying MAFIA, yes?) who has a night action.
B) The moderator publically reveal that the person quit during the night, and yet not give them a replacement until the beginning of the next day.
C) Inform the player (me) that the person did not use a night ability last night due to inactivity.

* I understand why it is fairly concievable that if horror sent in a PM to the moderator, that he MUST have sent a message about his night action as well, I think it is a common assumption we would all make an assume. And because of what

did

happen, it puts me in a high disadvantage that people suspect I am lying about that when it is the truth.

D) The Moderator has already publically revealed that horror sent in a PM at night.

Also informing that horror was inactive and did not do anything game related does not reveal anything about my alignment

. If I was a mafia, the other mafia could have sent in the kill and horror not done anything. I could be a mafia with a rolepower (tracker?) that did not get to use an ability because of horror's inactivity.

The moderator revealing this information says nothing about my alignment, it only prevents that I don't get lynched due to an unfair disadvantage that I have because of the situation and horror's action and the moderator not replacing before the day began.

I am fine with people voting me if they suspect me for other reasons, but if you suspect I am lying about horror being inactive, I ask that the mod clarify that horror was inactive (as the mod's public information does suggest that horror wasn't 100% inactive).

BUT LETS GET INTO YOUR CLEARING:

The whole townie thing is the fact that, if I was mafia, how would I know to roleclaim "Townie Doctor" vs. regular "Doctor". Empking has confirmed that his role is "Townie Detective" not just "The Detective."

Lets see if this would be hard to guess:

Me=Weird, Vanilla Townie, lynched Day 1.
Unsight, Vanilla Townie, killed Night 1.
Katsuki, Vanilla Townie, lynched Day 2.
Stef, Vanilla Townie, killed Night 2.
Soundwish, Mafia Godfather from the Benedetti family, has been lynched D3.
Deadjoker, Mafia Doctor from the Benedetti family, killed Night 3.
FakeGod Amish_Charney, Vanilla Townie, killed Night 3.

Hrmm, looks like alignment for PR's is in front of the role. And the exact term for alignment is not only given in the second post but right there!

So, yes, I think you're fully capable of pulling that out from what's given. Its not tough.

A) I still don't see how it would not be "hard to guess." There is absolutely NO information indicating that the word townie would be infront of the role. No power roles have died, Mafia have died (you don't see people say "the Doctor Mafia has died", you see them say the Mafia Doctor has died). However, you do typically see it said that someone's role was "Doctor" NOT "Townie Doctor".

B) Where in the 2nd post does it say that?

[Blackberry]

I don't know if I buy this. Also, you haven't answered Hrezs question of why you thought horror gave off a town vibe. If you are mafia, I could see you as teaming up with someone to A) gain their trust and B) make you look better. And your asking someone if you think myself and you are scum together struck me as odd as well.

I'm pretty sure this was addressed waay back when when I said the stef / horror business was town.

And the latter party was Kat's push only making sense if horror and I were scum together BUT ALAS she wouldn't come out and lay a firm opinion.

There's a difference between saying someone is "Oozing town" (which implies you have multiple reads on them that they are acting like a townie) and thinking two people are town because they are attacking eachother like town-town would.

B.) Welcome to Mafia War Mafia! You are a Vanilla Townie. You were having a peaceful live before the killings started. Now, afraid of losing your own life, you have decided to make something about it. Sadly, you have no special abilities other than the your vote, which you can use to lynch scums, and hopefully, only scum.

You win when all mafia has been eliminated.

That's the exact town format. Townie is in it. Its not this drastic leap to assume the other.

So you're telling me if you were a mafia and you were fakeclaiming, you would know to claim TOWNIE DOCTOR instead of just DOCTOR? CSL, Hrezs, Empking - does that make sense to

you

? At this point, it appears to me that SpyreX and Exemption are ignoring eachother and are probably the scum pair (although it almost seems too obvious to be honest).

---- ---- ----

At this point, I really hope SpyreX is mafia, because if he isn't, the town is completely screwed.

[Blackberry]

.... what?

Semantics now? Semantically you're going to try to argue that I don't think horror was town (it sure appears I was wrong, but at the point).

I am arguing that you are claiming to think two different things. A real townsperson has a thought. A mafia, at this point (since the other mafia is dead), fakes their thoughts on who is town and who is mafia and can't be genuine in explaining their thinking process. Saying someine is "oozing town" would mean, as a town player, you have multiple tells that indicate to you that I am town. Saying you see someone fighting as if they are town vs. town is just an observation, but not something that would give a real genuine townsperson the feeling of "oozing town." As a mafia player, you may use these terms loosely and just using the general assumption that they all mean you think someone is town. As a real townplayer, one uses their words more procisely with their thoughts.

This is some grade A flailing + AtE.

Simular to the word "weak",

these are words I consider mafia to use

(as a tactic) when they want to make someone else's argument disregarded.

You tell CSL who is exemption that I'm scum with him but put both names in?

I have no idea what you are referring to me putting "both names in"? I am well aware of CSL and Exemption being the same person. I was asking CSL his opinion on you and seeing if he agrees with your logic. Who does and doesn't agree with your logic will give me information.

[Blackberry]

I thought it was "ridiculous" that was the secret scum buzzword but now its flailing (which you are) and AtE (which you did) that are? I can't keep up.

What is AtE?

So you went CSL who is Exemption are you scum with spyrex?? And expect some secret information with that?

I asked CSL if he thought your logic made sense. I didn't ask if he was your scum partner. Slipping, are you?

[Blackberry]

For the record, I looked up AtE, I can't find it (google thinks I mean "ate").

[Blackberry]

I'm not voting you, because unlike you, I am not rash. I want to be confident in who I think the two mafia are before I vote them. Despite all this, I am still more confident that Exemption/CSL is mafia than you are. I'd rather convince you to Unvote, on the chance that you are town, than vote you.

-----

The italisized has nothing to do with the question. It was simply my opinion, how CSL reacts will help determine if I think you two are together.

[Blackberry]

Fail Town