Mini 1005: Mafiaphobes! (Game over)

[charter]

Hey. It'll take me a while to read this.

[charter]

Alright, reading up, part one.

By the end of page one, I'd bet that Friend is scum and vezo is town.

SSBF, in your post 27, how do you see that question as rolefishing?

By the end of page two, I'm pretty certain Friend is scum.

That's all I've got time for tonight.

[charter]

post 56 by SSBF is incrediscummy with how wordy, vague, and pointless the things he's arguing are.

End of 6, Don't have a town read of Vezo anymore. Don't have a town read on anyone at this point.

Top of 8 now.

[charter]

I pretty much skipped everything on page 8 and 9.

No idea what Jay was doing with that claim he made.

Page 11 wasn't useful either, though excruciatingly long, Oso and Kage are mainly to blame for this...

Based on Sotty's first post, I'd give some scumpoints to Oso and some to one of the people she didn't mention. Especially when she comes in and says "I'm going to go ahead and say that I think Oso and Humble's little back and forth feels like a town v town logic fight to the death."

Oh man, 294, Dddin using "scumspects". Awesome.

Page 14. What. The. Hell. Didn't read that, because I'm pretty sure my eyes would fall out.

I'm on 18 now. I'm pretty sure at least one scum can be caught through claims, since no one died night one, but I haven't gotten to any claims yet.

[charter]

I really don't see any breadcrumb from Kage in his first post day two.

DDdin's first post might indicate that he jailed Humble. I'll need to go back and see who he was suspicious of at the end of day one. Actually, reading further, I don't think that's likely. I wish he had made it more obvious who he jailed, since I have no idea.

Oh man, 457 by Sotty. That's a mighty blow against Vezo. She basically said "I'm still trying to get Dddinthetownie lynched, but remember I think that Vezoscum is scum, I'm just not going to push for his lynch at all".

459!?!!!!!!?!?!?!?!? BWAH?!?!?!??!??? Incrediscummy.

My suspicion is there is at least one scum in the neighborhood.

Oso's 534 is pretty contradictory. He says he believes the claim, but he isn't finding Sotty suspicious.

Damn. Humble, your posts are way too big.

Ok, looks like Oso isn't scum. This is increasing suspicion of Humble.

I'd think the either q21 or SSBF is scum with their votes on Tazaro (though to be honest I haven't been reading Tazaro's posts) but they both completely ignored Oso's stuff on Sotty. (Page 25)

621, Sotty votes q21. Pretty weak reasons, no attempt at convincing anyone else he is scum. I'll have to see if she follows up on this later.

Good lord. As I glance down 26, Tazaro might as well just vote himself with how terribly he's playing.

Holy !@@$##@$. Humble, you need to make shorter posts or include a tl;dr at the end. I've read maybe five of your posts since you came in.

Alright, I think I've missed some stuff, because 747 isn't making much sense. I'll have to pick up a little before that when I'm not tired.

[charter]

I have no problem claiming if it's just me and one other person that haven't claimed. Where did this lyncher business come from? Who started that and around where?

I'm going to hold off from claiming until I've read the whole thread, however. Should be tonight. Doesn't matter to me who goes first.

[charter]

Alright, about to pick back up. I need to find out who brought up lyncher.

No lynching is absolutely not, under any circumstances, an option, whatsoever.

[charter]

Ok, by 759, Oso is 100% town.

Also, what I am wondering (and this is quite vexing) is if Sotty was blocked night one, why was the kill stopped? I'm pretty sure this means she was sent to make the kill, BUT she was also a roleblocker. My question, is why would they send the roleblocker to make a kill, when it's quite likely (based off past experience) that at least one member of the mafia doesn't have an active role. Just off the top of my head, my thinking is that they didn't think Sotty would be tracked, and they were worried that the other members would be tracked. The other explanation is she had the worst power role (though two better roles than roleblocker... tough to imagine).

764 by SSBF looks really bad. Sotty just got caught independently by two power roles, and he's ignoring that and voting vezok.

However, whoever said that Vezo's targeting of Poirot is suspect is totally correct. There is a claimed cop, and he watches some unknown claim? Yeah right.

Lol, Xvart claiming protecting Humble two nights in a row. In addition, Xvart's 791 makes less than zero sense. He's claiming that Sotty and Dddin are both scum, and both blocked each other, and then both fudged up their claims. That's a believable thing to be going through a townie's head.

Wait, now I see Humble was thinking this as well? Hmmm, I'll have to go recheck, I might be biased since I knew Dddin was town when I was reading it.

What????????????????? Vezo targeted Xvart? Are you serious?

Alright, caught all the way up. Let me reread what I wrote, and select parts of the game, and I'll consolidate my thoughts and nail the scumbags.

As for my claim, I'm just a vanilla townie. The reason I was so interested in hearing who brought it up, is it's an extremely uncommon thing for town to think of in a game. Also, just to throw you all for a curve, here's a game where the lynchee was scum. http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=14295

[charter]

Vezo, why on earth did you target Xvart last night?

[charter]

Christ Humble. Every one of your posts is demanding I be fully up to date with the game. Maybe if you keep pestering me I'll appease you (though I won't). If your posts weren't so damn massive, it'd have taken half the time and I'd be done by now. Now take a chill pill and sit down.

Anyway, I'm NOT a lyncher, lynching me would be idiotic, and I'm about to finish up and post my thoughts. Even if you think I'm a lyncher despite what I say (even though there's no reason to lie about it) lynching me is still idiotic, since I'm not scum.

[charter]

WARNING! WALL-O-TEXT!

Alright, first off, let me make sure I have the claims straight. (I also just noticed I've been butchering Diddin's name, sorry)

Xvart - doc - protected HP night 1, 2; Vezo night 3
Oso - tracker - night one tracked HP, didn't go anywhere; night two tracked Sotty to Dddin; night three tracked Dddin, didn't go anywhere.
Vezo - watcher - night one watched Oso, saw Kage; night two watches HP, saw Kage and Xvart; night three watches Xvart doesn't see anyone.
Kage - cop - night one investigated Oso, innocent; night two unknown
Diddin - jailkeeper - night one jailed Sotty; night two jailed Oso; night three unknown
HP - townie
q21 - townie
Charter - townie
SSBF - ??? (can't remember or find a claim)

I'm assuming that SSBF claimed vanilla, I just can't find it. If I'm mistaken, let me know.

I think Oso is town. I'm not seeing the power bus of Sotty and Kagelord definitely didn't get a guilty on him (I have to assume he got an innocent, though no idea why he wouldn't make that more obvious).

Something else that I think is likely, is that Sotty DID NOT send the kill night one. I think that's highly improbable for the roleblocker to send a kill, especially since no potential scumbags were under heavy scrutiny at the end of day one (and thus likely to draw a tracking investigation), except for Vezo, but I'm pretty certain he didn't make the kill, either, since he watched Oso.

What I think this means, is that Xvart is TOWN. There are a few things pointing towards this. The biggest is the no kill, which unless Sotty was sent to make the kill (again, highly unlikely), he's the only explanation. Another big thing going for him is his protection of HP, who (from what I gather, and someone correct me if I'm wrong) had virtually no suspicion on him and was considered by many to be town. I think that the combination of Xvart's choice to protect him coupled with his likelihood of being NK'ed is what actually happened night one. This also makes HP town (plus, HP was tracked night one, and didn't make the kill, and it's likely that he would have been the one to send it in since he had no suspicion). This would mean that the three neighbors are all town.

Excluding myself, this leaves us with Vezo, q21, SSBF.

Putting the claim jigsaw puzzle together, Vezo's targets are plausible. In addition, if you look at when Vezo claimed, Sotty immediately wants to see who targeted Oso at night, and then you see who died that night? The same person, Kagelord. It doesn't look to me like Sotty knew who Vezo targeted.

Alright, all this aside, based solely on logic and a slight bit of applied thought, I think q21 and SSBF have a good chance of being scum. Now, on to look at their actual actions.

Right off the top of my head, from what I remember about the game, q21 had a very good chance of being scum. Despite my catchup posts, here's what I think is going on (those are mostly notes to myself, here comes your explanations HP...). Sotty makes very little mention on him until she votes him in 621. There's virtually no follow up on this, and she mentions him as one of her suspects the next day, but that's it. Her vote was entirely useless and it was safe to park a vote on her scumbuddy, since he was in zero danger of a wagon taking off with how everyone was going after Tazaro and Diddin.

Q21, I believe, was on every single lynch. I think a lot of his reasons for voting the lynchee are pretty flimsy. His quadz vote, he even admits he's doing no thinking of his own, and just parroting the wrong (in hindsight, but he would have known that then) arguments of others. His Tazaro reasons amount to policy lynching, but the way Tazaro was playing, any reason to lynch him was a good one. He votes SSBF, then switches to Sotty, sheeping on Oso's reasoning. I think at this point, it would have been pretty clear to her scumbuddies that she was doomed. Now today, he's come out of the gate and is voting Xvart solely on setup speculation, and I KNOW I've been in games with multiple protective roles. All his SSBF suspicion is magically forgotten. Plus, what I think is a huge pointer towards q21 being scum is how when Xvart claimed yesterday, he made no mention of their being multiple protective roles claimed. And now, first thing today, that's what he votes Xvart on. I can just picture the scum QT

SSBF - "Let's kill Diddin and frame Xvart with it"
q21 - "Brilliant! We need to kill him anyway so he stops jailing us."
Day four rolls around
q21 - "Diddin was town, Xvart must be scum!" and he clearly doesn't plan on giving any more reasoning than that.

His Xvart vote is just flat out opportunistic. Not even trying to disguise it like he's a townie.

I'll do SSBF when I get more time (maybe tonight, but I doubt it), but until then.

Vote Q21

I will admit, that this setup seems extremely biased against the scum, but still possible depending on what the other scum roles are.

[charter]

Another thing, if you look at page 12, both Sotty and SSBF vote Vezo in quick succession. Since Sotty was scum, and I think SSBF is likely scum, I don't think it's likely that Vezo is scum.

I think people should take a look at Q21, since he's played pretty scummily.

[charter]

You should.

Others should as well.

I think Xvart is the wrong direction. Wasting your roleblocker night one just seems like such a terrible move at scum. They couldn't even be thinking, 'hey, we can frame someone three days down the road if we screw ourselves over now!' There is literally zero benefit to doing that night one. Like I said before, any of the people remaining (the other two potential scum) were under very little scrutiny at the end of day one, and probably wouldn't be fearing being tracked.

[charter]

I'm pretty sure I've been in games with a comparable amount of power roles in the town as what it could be here. Plus, if our cop is actually naive, that's almost like a bonus scum member with how bad of a role for the town that is.

However, I'll go take another look at Vezo, because I think if one of the alive power roles is scum, it's probably him.

[charter]

Oso, you're being extremely hypocritical here. Jailkeeper and Doctor are similar. As are Cop, Watcher, and Tracker. You're voting for Xvart because his role is similar to one that's died. Why should we not vote you for being a similar role to one that died? Or why shouldn't we vote for Vezo. Why aren't you voting for Vezo?

In addition, you're ignoring the overwhelming circumstantial evidence pointing towards Xvart being a doctor (and I'm not seeing scum doc in this game one bit). The biggest is that there was no NK night one, and it's unlikely Sotty made the kill (again, zero benefit from her doing it, and they lose the roleblock). Plus, there's Vezo's watching him visit HP. He wasn't killing HP, so he has some other role. I find two mafia roleblockers to be highly unlikely. At that point, you might as well not have any town power roles. It's possible he's some other kind of role, but frankly, him being a doctor makes the most sense.

Yes, I think I've talked myself in to one of Oso or Vezo being scum. I'll agree that Vezo has definitely been scummier, but something I just thought of was how Oso immediately brought up Kage being insane. I don't see that as very likely if he were town. I'll have to reread that as well.

unvote

I see it's clear we're not lynching q21 today, so I'll save that for after we get another scum. I'm not voting Xvart.

NO ONE SHOULD HAMMER XVART RIGHT NOW. Still need some time today to reread.

[charter]

Actually, I'm not ready to give up on q21. He's painfully obvious scum. Look at him sit back on his poorly justified Xvart vote while having the built in mislynch tomorrow of one of Vezo/Oso.

[charter]

Jailkeeper and Doctor aren't the same thing. I'm sorry but you're wrong. And that's in addition to there's nothing stopping the mod from putting multiple of the same role in the game. So if that's what you're basing your decision off, you need to reconsider.

[charter]

Here it comes. The mafia trying to undermine a foolproof town win plan. So obvious Q21 is scum.

[charter]

I haven't really reread, but thinking about it some more, I'm pretty sure Vezo is scum. It's also bad how he watched XVart doing an action, but not a kill, and he still voted Xvart. It really doesn't make any sense.

I'll hammer, anyone want to say anything before night?

[charter]

Oh.

So is he your scumbuddy?

[charter]

Good work town. Was the cop naive? If not, this was ridiculously in favor of the town, it'd have been amazing if scum pulled a win here. I think you did good, but with like five town power roles...