Mini 1005: Mafiaphobes! (Game over)

[Humble Poirot]

Just posting to tell you I'm here. Reading and thinking. Trying not to jump to conclusions. You'll have my opinions soon. Looking forward to having fun. Later.

[Humble Poirot]

I've been busy but I'm about to post. Just need to tidy things up to post something readable.

[Humble Poirot]

I'm half way through... It's taking longer than I thought but it's going to be crystal clear. I hope.

I'd like to third the request to give the people who have participated less a chance to do so.

Oso, narrowing down will have to wait a tad longer until it's clear what everybody thinks. I'd like to avoid hasty decisions.

[Humble Poirot]

Ok, let's see... So far, this has been an interesting game.

We have these players with us:
Oso
Tasky
KageLord
Humble Poirot

Friend

q21
jayfl383
xvart
quadz08
diddin
vezokpiraka
Sotty7

ChibiSanNub

Super Smash Bros. Fan

Now, try and remember the amount of participation of each of them. I'm not going to assume that whoever participates most is most town, of course. Some people have an intense posting style which they carry as either alignment.

Anyway, I have a couple of concerns.

ChibiSanNub:

We have practically no info about ChibiSanNub's thoughs. He just thought that Tasky was rolefishing. Period.

--------------------------------------

Jayfl383:

has started joking his way around then seemed to, in his own way, push a case against friend (me). Then there's a long period of absence and then he comes back again with this, let's call it, stunt. I do not know what to make of him.
If I was to answer right now, I don't think he would be pulling a refuge in audacity and that he simply is acting very foolishly, to be polite.
We definetly need more from him to establish what he can do for us. Although some of us may feel he is town, he CANT, I repeat, CANT keep playing this way or he'll be just a liability later on.
I think extremely anti-town players are better removed early on so if he doesn't try to play I'm going to probably push his lynch. Be warned, Jay.

q21

started mild and is getting into the game. I dislike his defense/attack on xvart, which appears to me as if he was accusing whoever questions his motives.

Town see someone self vote in their first post (even after 5 pages) and most of the time they'll laugh a little and move on. Scum on the other hand feel they need to jump on everything and as a result they jump on that self vote. On its own its hardly enough to condemn anyone, but your response and SSBF's earlier was enough to catch my attention.

So... Let me get this straight. Good Townsperson are supposed to allow you be anti-town and not play the game? And whoever does not do that is just scum? It sounds weird but let's see how he explains it:

Seriously? You think someone self voting on page five when there is actual scumhunting/discussion going on would just be laughed off? That's laughable, and now you are reaching to try and make those that called you out on it appear to be the scum. The fact that you are softly trying to build a case or a level of suspicion on the people calling you out on the self vote is suspicious; and if I wasn't so

Lets analyse the responses to that self vote... 9 out of 11 players other than myself moved on without so much as a comment (maybe they laughed, maybe they didn't; I don't know, I don't have little cameras at everyone's computers to see if they're laughing). 2 out of eleven people called me out for it. Even if neither you not SSBF are scum, those numbers still prove that most townies paid it very little mind.

So... What's the relevance of this? What do you gain?

Anyway, there's not much more than this but he still strikes me as genuine albeit overdefensive.

--------------------------------------

Now,

quadz08

is a player who I have a lot of problems with. He seems to be posting in the fence in most situations, just reading what the general opinion is and leaning on the most, let's say, moderate way. He jumps on Vezo after there's a momentum against him
ISO 10 and then, after hearing some answers, takes back a few steps, acknowledges some things but mantains that vezok is still the most scummy person.

Then, after a read read, he goes after SSBF for what seems like a Mafia Discussion. ISO 21 lacks real conviction for him to vote this person over anyone else.

Tied to that, we coudl a kind of friendly and jokey attitude that could be his personality but strikes me as an attempt to befriend everyone to protect his persona.

He is definetly a strong scum read.
--------------------------------------

diddin

: I'm on the fence about diddin. Vote hopping happy. Agreeing Happy. Information shrew. I need to analyze his motives and I'd like more precise explanations regarding his case against SSBF.
I found from the wiki that you played at least 2 newbie games. Can you briefly summarize how you were lynched in each occassion? Thanks. It's not that I don't want to meta but i'd like to hear it from you (also, I don't want to meta <- lazy)

----------------------------------------

vezok

: Since the beginning, I was leaning pro-town on him due to what I felt was genuine anger/irritation in some of his concise posts. No fear for confrontation.
What I don't like about him was his vote on Kagelord when he had 3 votes in him and Kage had 2 (1 didn't count because it lacked a prior unvote but it was going to come)

Wagon analysis.
We have tasky and friend. One who got a wagon formed on him at the beginning and one who defended him. KageLord - the one who is pushing a wagon on me for out of game reasons. We may have all the three(?) scums here.

I will

Vote KageLord

I really don't like his last few posts. He comes as incredibly scummy to me.

This is an EXTREMELY weak vote. Vague. Also, he anticipates a question I was going to ask everyone. How many scum do you think there are? Why did you pick three?

I have one game to point you to Newbie 950. I was cop that and had nearly the same posting style. I have more games to show but they are still ongoing.

what's the purpose of this? Mentioning you were specifically a cop?

I don't think jay is a jester. I think he's a lyncher or a cop though.

Why would you, AGAIN, talk about someone being a cop? If he was, isn't it dangerous?

Anyway, I don't think vezok is a bad lynch after all. He started like a genuine agressive player but when he caught flak, he retreated and tried to just save himself. His case on KageLord (the other seemingly formed waggon) is void of content.

----------------------------------------

Kagelord

has played a decent game and made good points. He got caught on a trap when he kept arguing about times with Vezok but it's understandable. If you think someone needs to lie about something it's probably because they lie about many things and he apparently tried to prove what he saw.
Kagelord specially makes a good point in ISO 9 about the whole "n00b pass" thing. I'm completely adamant against a KageLord lynch. The only case that shows content is Oso's and I think it's fundamentally flawed.
Which brings me to

Oso

. He said that KageLord is covering in case the Vezo flips town or scum. But, if Kagelord was scum, why would he need to cover himself? HE'd know what would Kagelord flip (unless there's more than one scum team). This was pointed by someone but I needed to make sure it came across. I'm aware he answered in ISO 18 but I'm not satisfied with it. If anything, it seems to be like an MD discussion about the certainty of your votes.
Oso seems to be of the idea that someone is scummy for not being confident about the flip of his votee and he is consistent with his idea. Oso claims many times he is sure about Kagelord but if Kagelord were to flip town after a lynch, wouldn't Oso claim he was wrong and try to move on?
I think highly of Oso's skills and I'm extremely wary when I disagree with most of his logic. I feel as if he was purposefuly setting things up for his own convinience. This of course, can be any number of things. Paranoia, inability to see a good point from my part, forgetting to put myself in his shoes.
Anyway, I'll keep an eye on him and hope that everyone does the same. He is both a great asset and a great danger.

Oh, and welcome Poirot. Glad you are here.

Thanks. I'm glad you're considering the possibility of tunneling.

By the way. No one should be allowed to play just by saying "what Oso said", the end. I've seen plenty of latching to other's people's reasons. I feel that, although we can agree, we must also explain ourselves.

-------------------------------

This is just too long.
I'm missing 3 players and I don't think I'd gain much from discussing at lenght right now.
Tasky, xvart, SSBF.
Tasky is growing on me despite being a bit of a mafia zealot, going after every tiny point.
xvart, I like him. He's playing similarly to our last game together. Analytical and sharp.
SSBF is someone I need to reread. I confess lack of attention when reading his ISO analysis that came far too early and far too often, IMHO. I need to see if there's genuine scumhunting and content or if it's just a façade. For now, it's the former.

Question to all

: How many scum do you think there are?

If you want me to comment about anything particular of the last 10 pages say so. I was happy to see I agreed with many things with my former self, friend.

Some more things about me:
- I oppose to rulebook scumtells or strategies. Nothing is set on stone.
- I'll defend people if I think they're town.
- Motives are crucial to me. "Why would A do B in that context?"
I promise I won't do more eternal posts like this one. I just had to catch up.


Thanks for bearing up with me.

Humble Poirot.

Preview Edit: For now,

unvote, vote quadz08

. (but you know how I feel about Kage and Vezok)
Preview Edit 2: This is not as long as I thought. I've done worse.

[Humble Poirot]

Welcome, replacements. Humble - we've played together before but I don't remember what game. Was it that one that got abandoned by the moderator?

xvart.

Good to see you. Yes it was. It was theat PR heavy game where we had Aranfan and Evilgorillaz (both scum) as the top wagons. At night they shot chibo and I tracked the SK so we would've won if it weren't for the fact that the mod dissapeared. :/

Welcome, Sotty and Humble. Btw, Humble Poirot may be the best username I've seen so far.

Thanks.

It's too bad I didn't read this before. If I had, I would've never thought you were scum. XD

[Humble Poirot]

Vezok, thanks for the reply. There's a section dedicated to you in my long post.

Search for "Vezok:"

Opinions? Answers?

[Humble Poirot]

Just to make sure you know where I stand:

Oso, narrowing down will have to wait a tad longer until it's clear what everybody thinks. I'd like to avoid hasty decisions.

This meant that I didn't want to just choose A or B because they were the seemingly lynching options. I wanted to hear opinions and analyze everything.

Preview Edit: For now,

unvote, vote quadz08

. (but you know how I feel about Kage and Vezok)

This means I'm voting quadz, waiting to hear what he and others will say about it, how do they feel about what I said and about his defences, etc.

The parenthesis means that, as I said, I'm strongly against a Kagelord lynch (I only see Oso making a case against him and I think it's flawed) and I've already said that I feel vezok is a good lynch.

I dislike quadz speech pretending he has to vote Kagelord because he has more votes right now (specially considering that the difference is minimal and it just changed momentarily from a tie).

Vezok has my potential vote if I can't get a quadz lynch. So for all intents and purposes Vezok and Kagelord are tied. If someone chooses to vote, they can't claim it's because someone has got the lead or any other excuse.

ftr, Vezok seems to be going more and more into a "hiding" state which gives me a very bad vibe. As if he was afraid one word could lean the scales against him.

Oso

, I'd like you to develop on your suspicions on me/friend just to be clear. Are they solely based on the fact that friend was in vezok's wagon? If not, why?

With the deadline getting closer and the possibility of a no lynch, why vote for someone that's probably not going to get lynched today?

As I said, I dislike the conformist beliefs. Once there are one or two half-way waggons on day 1 nobody thinks of pursuing anyone else.

Also, I'm surprised nobody is worried about the fact that, with no extension, we'll have 2/3 players of which we'll know few to no information.

Kagelord makes good points about quadz's weird choice of voting him over vezok (whom he suspected).

quadz, you start off by saying, as you have been recently, that you think SSBF is scummiest followed by vezo. I'm wondering why you say in your next paragraph that you would switch to me to prevent a no lynch. I was just tied with vezo in votes, until Poirot unvoted, so more on either one of us would probably result in that person being lynched (if you switch to vezo, someone else will probably do the same). If vezo is the second scummiest to you and you would be willing to lynch him or SSBF as you say above, why switch to me instead of him?

Sorry, that was poor wording on my part. In my head, my earlier declaration of vezok as 2nd scummiest meant that I would switch to him if that's where the lynch looks to be happening. I pointed you out specifically because you're on the general radar and I hadn't mentioned you. To clarify, I am willing to switch to KageLord or vezok to ensure a lynch. I may be willing to switch to others as well, if the need arises.

This is basically why you will keep being my first suspect for a long time. You're basically excusing yourself of all responsibility (Oso, are you reading this? Isn't this the same thing Kage allegedly do and cause you to vote him?). You aren't even trying to find who might be scum (if there is one) amongst the two of them. You aren't trying to push your alternative lynch either.

Seriously, those who are voting Kagelord for Oso's reasons, need to answer me what they think about quadz08. It just doesn't make sense. On top of that, why would you choose Kagelord over someone who you claimed to be suspicious of, like vezok. Just saying that any lynch satisfies you and that you will do whatever

"you guys"

want.

xvart, SSBF: Your opinion is crucial and it's time for you to start defining it.
diddin, jay, chibi: We need your input.

IMPORTANT

Homework: search quadz in ISO and look for the names Kage and vezo. Vezo is voted by quadz after agreeing with Kagelord. Vezo is repeatedly signaled as the scummiest person so far until ISO 21 where he votes against SSBF (causing a 3-3 tie vezok-Kage)

As other suspects, he mentions Vezok, Kagelord and xvart. Kagelord had never been mentioned before (save that agreement against vezok). Suspected for the first time, now that Kage is tied against vezok (whom quadz was voting).

If this doesn't seem extremely fishy... I don't know what does.

Mod: I'd very much like a short extension to allow replacements to adjust into the game.

PS: forgive the typos and mistakes. I rushed this.

Farewell

[Humble Poirot]

SHHT. I am lurking.

I think oso's case is good. I don't like how you try to discredit him.

Why is it good? How am I discrediting him and why don't you like it?

You also attack quadz. I agree with some of your points but he may be playing like me and change his opinion quicly.

which points do you agree with?

Could you summarize your case on your main suspect?

[Humble Poirot]

KageLord?
Yes.
He is trying to hard to paint someone scum. (I E : When I SSBF posted before me he made a pretty big case saying I am scum just because of that.) I just found this scum hunting tehnique a few days ago and it never proved me wrong.

People who try too hard to make someone seem scummy are usually scum.

...

Is he the only one doing that? The only one

trying hard to paint

someone as scum?

Oso's main case is set on the fact that A) KageLord kept going at Vezo for the post preview issue ("Using out of game reasoning to base an in-game scumcall on") and B) Because he is not totally confident in his vote (allegedly leaving space for either outcome town-scum).

Then we have vezokpiraka and q21 agreeing about the minute discrepancy and that's that. q212's vote & vezok's vote for everyone to see how that wagon has no substance. I'm impressed Kagelord is considered a lynching option right now.

Oso keeps talking generalities and answering every question evasively. He looks like a politician and that displeases me a great deal.

Seriously, those who are voting Kagelord for Oso's reasons, need to answer me what they think about quadz08

. It just doesn't make sense. On top of that, why would you choose Kagelord over someone who you claimed to be suspicious of, like vezok. Just saying that any lynch satisfies you and that you will do whatever "you guys" want.

No, they don't. Do your own work. If you think that the reasons are bogus, attack the reasons and the person who first made them. Then worry about who might have followed along.

That's how it is, eh? I'm doing my own work. I just want to raise awareness at the fact that your case is as shaky as it goes and that you're refusing to discuss anything that might compromise it. You just shake off any logical inquiry in an evasive way. I've been attacking those reasons and wondering why you don't act consistently when different people do the same thing you call scummy. I worry about who follows along because this is mafia and town is subject to being manipulated by scum or misguided town. My aim is to prevent that by presenting the most objective scenario I can and providing all the facts I see.

I do not disagree with the fact that logic is not everything. But when you make a case on someone where you first focus on logic that doesn't hold together and there's no attempt to explain the "gut" you apparently feel, it makes me wonder at how easy it is to get anyone lynched.

[Humble Poirot]

But wouldn't you care to at least defend it when someone attacks that point you agree with?

[Humble Poirot]

Short post just to stay I'll probably be unable to post until tomorrow. Sorry. Friend's day here.

After a quick read I'm impressed and pleased at the clarity in which Sotty expressed his points. Glad to have you. Oso, I will answer your request, don't worry.

Till then.

Humble Poirot

PS: Mod, Thanks for the extension. I'll make good use of it tomorrow.

[Humble Poirot]

Hi... I'm finally here...

If I don't get lynched today, I have a feeling I'll get NKed (possibly for this very post).

I don't have major problems from your post but this. It's not useful for you to say you feel you'll be night killed. Especially when it doesn't follow very much to being a lynch consideration for day 1, it all depends on who is scum and how they think. Anticipating this kind of things doesn't serve any purpose.

So, in that event I urge all townies to watch Oso (and vezo if he's still alive) VERY closely.

The same thing should happen with everyone. No one should be given a leeway.

---------------------------------

I thought it was important to highlight the following:

I see a lot of active lurking, not breaking down your thought process and just fake attempts at scum hunting. I don't sense any urgency, just a lot of statements with very little attempt at digging beneath the surface.

It's a very good point about Vezo and one that I find to be an important scumtell in many games.

There's a type of scum who just wants to go through the day and doesn't really care. The thing here, is that half the players don't look like they care too much.

Vezok is

Above is more sheeping of Oso by diddin. Why isn't anyone noticing this?

Dude. When I talk about people who follow Oso around without providing reasons of their own I'm referring to all of them. As for Diddin in particular, I feel weird about him, I struggle to find out if his excessive agreeing, mildness and vote hopping is part of his play style or indicative of scum. As I said

I need to analyze his motives and I'd like more precise explanations regarding his case against SSBF.

What are you doing to help us reach a lynch?

This is what I wonder about a lot of players. They just say a couple of things, vote someone, answer if questioned and leave it at that. It's like as if they didn't care what ultimately happened.

vezok, q21, diddin, SSBF, Oso(to a lesser degree)


------------------------

This was the only thing that really came across as scummy to me, as well as what xvart said. I'm much more confident in a SSBF lynch than a quadz lynch.

SSBF and quadz had 2 votes at the time of that post. vezok had 4. Now quadz has 3. What are you going to do about it? Will you try to convince someone else to vote SSBF? or at least try to go for the second option, quadz? or are you comfortable with a vezok lynch?
------------------------

We have some more time to discuss. YAY. This game is already getting boring. Big wall-o-texts that must be read.
I am waiting for either getting at L-2 to claim or kagelord getting lynched.

L-2? You have already been in L-2. Also, your attitude, if you're town, is extremely depressing. The rebel act doesn't help anyone. Instead of trying to convince people in a game where you are supposed to talk and give arguments you complain when people do so without addressing where and why it is bad.
-------------------------

Since we are in a lull here.

I appreciate you asking for a jay prod but we don't necessarily need to be in a lull. There are new players and new opinions. Kagelord doesn't seem like he is going to be lynched and you don't seem to care much considering you claimed to be sure he was scum.
-------------------------

We have some more time to discuss. YAY. This game is already getting boring. Big wall-o-texts that must be read.

I'm not sure if that was sarcasm or not, but I think you've just made a contradiction. Why say "yay" to having more time to discuss if you're bored of the game?

Now, SSBF. How serious do you think this post was. What was the point for calling a contradiction in the same sentence when you answered yourself? Wouldn't you agree this looks like active lurking from your part? As in, post void of content without openly showing so.

diddin

, you said Kagelord is closed 4th as a suspect. Why?

This day is too swingy.
Anything can happen and everyone may get lynched.

How is it swingy? You mean you're relying on the swingyness of the day to save yourself? Because you haven't provided one good reason against your lynch. Exactly the opposite.

SSBF: So you think it's likely that quadz and vezok are scumbuddies?

by the way, Vezok, you're welcome to ask for a replacement if you're not lynched and you don't care about reading.

xvart, interesting analysis regarding quadz + SSBF. I don't have a problem with theories unless they make you lynch someone other than your most scummy suspect.

I'd like to have more input from sotty regarding quadz (I'm aware you spoke a bit about him). What do you think about my case?. q21's opinion would be interesting too.

I'm sorry but those two statements don't match up to me.

Nice catch. Checking context of both statements.

xvart.

I like this.

Context is important.

Just a reminder for the town.

[...]
I'm sorry but those two statements don't match up to me.

Why do you feel the need to apologize?

Dude. What. Is. This? What's your point with that question?

No question's for me?
I am getting bored.

Yep, what will you say when I vote you next post for acting like a complete anti-town fool?
quote="vezokpiraka"]
Well he wants other people to do the work vut if he doesn't comment or anything then he is just active lurking.[/quote]You've mixed the concepts. If you don't comment you're just lurking. By posting fluff like this you're ACTIVE lurking.

Yes I do.

Hi empking.

@ q21 and xvart:

What's your opinion of vezo right now and the wagon on him?

If I have to I'll vote him before deadline. A vezo lynch is better than no lynch. I still want more KageLord votes, though.

Oh. So you remember him. You want more votes? What are you going to do about it? No one is showing signs of voting him and I've strongly attacked Oso's case (which you subscribed to without developing).

Okay. Tell me, outside of your vote what are you doing to get SSBF lynched?

Waiting for other scumtells to come out of him, and repeating that I think he is scum. There isn't much else to do, that I can see. I can't keep repeating the same case over and over, that would accomplish nothing, and look scummy.

Let me get this straight. You think he is scum but you're still waiting for him to give MORE scumtells so you can get him lynched?
Repeating? How's that working for you?
Let's see... quadz is scum, quadz is scum, quadz is scum, quadz is scum... Ok, I did it 4 times. You can't avoid a lynch now...

Repeating a case over and over? Why don't you try to summarize your case? Did you read xvart's critique? And yet chose to safely ignore it in hopes that it be forgotten?

I'd like jay to appear or, better yet, be replaced, soon. Quadz, do you have any new theories about him after his absence.

What happened to Oso?

I'm still here. I was mainly holding back to see if jay would make an appearance but think I'm going to have to give that up hoping for that at the moment.

Really? Holding back for jay? What would that change? You're telling me that you give any credit at all to the possibility that he could be A) A day actioning role B) had actioned on me C) gotten scum D) claimed it like he did?

It would've sounded better if you said you were just lurking.

btw,

Mod: This is not a complaint or anything. Just a precaution because of bad experiences. Do you have someone to back you up in case of an eventuality?

If you don't have one, asking for a backup mod could be a good idea. Thanks.

PREVIEW EDIT: xvart may be right about vezok being a scapegoat. I plead to everyone to take a good look at the cases against him and corroborate them.

[Humble Poirot]

I almost forgot.

The answer for Oso's post:

Ok, I'll bite on that one. How do you explain 'gut feeling'? By definition it is not something based in logic. It based on past experience, overall impressions and perhaps even a subconscious awareness that something is wrong or right but you just haven't ferreted out the logical basis for it yet.

I'm sure you won't be surprised to hear I put some thought into my posts. I knew you'd try to divert the argument this way.

Gut is subjective. Hence, not transferable to other people. So you can't expect to be able to convince anyone by using gut. Gut, however, can prove useful to decide who you think is scum and try to sustain it with logic.

After all, gut (let's call it intuition) is just the fact that we can't see what rational reason is making us think that way. So the reason MUST be somewhere, we just can't see it yet.

So, yes, you can attempt to explain gut.

What you did, instead was make 2 logical points and, when dismissed and confronted with inconsistencies regarding your suspicions, you fell back to gut as the crucial motive. Gut is indisputable. I can't tell you your gut is wrong because I don't know how you feel and why you feel it.

You're not searching for a reason to justify that gut. You're not trying and that makes it all invalid.

Oso keeps talking generalities and answering every question evasively. He looks like a politician and that displeases me a great deal.

and this

I do not disagree with the fact that logic is not everything.

But when you make a case on someone where you first focus on logic that doesn't hold together

and there's no attempt to explain the "gut" you apparently feel, it makes me wonder at how easy it is to get anyone lynched.

Fair enough. Prove it.

Sure thing, hope it comes across.

1 - Examples showing I am evasive and using generalizations and tie it into how that might indicate that am scum.

First of all. Why do you want indicatives of scummyness when I implied no such thing? I just attacked your case and the way you defended it (avoiding it). To be honest, I don't know what to make of your over-defensiveness. As I've said, there's a lot of things I don't like about you but I don't feel I've gotten a good read. If I was fairly confident you were scum you'd be the first to know.

Just because I think one player is scummy for doing something it doesn't necessarily follow that I suspect another player as scummy because they are doing the same thing. Logic is good. For me it is useless by itself without stepping back and trying to figure out the 'why' of the situation. That requires assigning motivations based on gut and overall impressions on where I think the player(s) is going with their posts.

This excuses any lynch you want to make. I repeat, ANY lynch. By the way, You talk about figuring out the 'why' without logic but gut to support logic. Not by itself.

Besides excusing any lynch, you also excuse yourself for having double standards without explaining them. The 3 letter magic word: Gut.

Seriously, those who are voting Kagelord for Oso's reasons, need to answer me what they think about quadz08.

It just doesn't make sense. On top of that, why would you choose Kagelord over someone who you claimed to be suspicious of, like vezok. Just saying that any lynch satisfies you and that you will do whatever "you guys" want.

No, they don't. Do your own work. If you think that the reasons are bogus, attack the reasons and the person who first made them. Then worry about who might have followed along.

I was doing that. In fact, I had just done it. But you attack the attacker instead of the argument and move to stop my inspection of the wagon. Evading the real subject: A flawed case with a wagon of sheep.

2A - Show exactly(or even just generally) how my logic is flawed or doesn't hold together in relation to the case I presented against KageLord.

I did it plenty of times.

You claim that you're SURE that Kagelord is scum because
A)He pushed Vezok for the alleged lie relating review reply. He says only scum would vote someone for that discrepancy.
B) Kagelord does not express certainty about his lynch.
With that, he claims he won't change his vote for the day.

Deal with it

Both points are his opinions and lack real strength. Specially when, later on, he expresses B) does hold true for other players and is subject to his impossible to explain gut read (because it's gut, he claims).

2B - Link that as well into a case that shows not only am I am wrong but also how that might indicate my alignment as well.

you keep at it. You want me to prove you're scum or something? Where did you get that from? Because I'm asking you questions and disagreeing with you? I'll tell you why you're scum or town when I decide about it. For now, I just explain where you are wrong or right, from my point of view.

I've shown several times what is flawed about your case and how your 2 minimal points are not only extremely subjective but that you're also inconsistent about them and end up justifying an unpopular lynch (save for 2 shy sheep) with gut.

And each time, instead of addressing what I tell you about A and B you go towards yet another tangent. What I should do, How I should think, That I should offer Proof that you're scum, etc.

That's how it is, eh? I'm doing my own work.

I know you are. You hit on one of my pet peeves/self-defence actions. Namely that if you think I am scum and am deliberately trying to get KageLord lynched based on faulty logic then go with that.

When did I say this? Getting paranoid, are we? Conspiracy screams? You can be just wrong, you know? It HAS happened to others before.

Don't try to set up a situation where you can lynch someone then use my case on KageLord to show I am scum. Because you know what's going to happen? You'll lynch quadz and when he flips town you'll say "Oh shit, we lynched a townie, but Oso is still scum. My bad there quadz." If you think I am deliberately setting up KG for a lynch because I took some bits and pieces and threw together a case simply to get a townie lynched then lynch me.

Err... Do you even read what I write? Could you name my 2 top suspects? When did I say you're scum or try to get you lynched yet?
What's the purpose of this emotional speech? Gather supporters? Prepare for a future fight or what? What if you're wrong? What if we're both wrong?
Also, as you consider I think you're scum... Do you consider I am with all that speech?

If you want an informational lynch then call for one.

Please, Do not misrepresent me. This is a cheap tactic. I never wanted an information lynch. I'm going after my top scum suspect for the lynch and inspecting everyone else.

And if you are going to use a flip to try and determine my alignment then I suggest it be KageLord, that way you can use 'killed a townie or bussed a partner' no matter what happens. Might be easier too as you can start planning posts for either eventuality now and not wait for the flip.

You're the only one talking about flips as if they justified something. I'm not focusing on flips but on getting who I think is scum lynched.

You're acting like a fanatic. Saying I'll do a bunch of evil things in the future or something. What's the purpose of all this? Tarnishing my image? I resent that, although you admit quadz scummyness to some degree, you consider only the scenarios where he is town and I'm a criminal mastermind who is out to get you. This all sounds like a bad appeal to emotion.

And there you have it. I still don't know if you're just being a fanatic... Stubbornly holding to your beliefs and imagining conspiracies or what. You may be even right about kage, but you've shown nothing to justify his lynch so far and neither has the rest of the wagon.







[/quote]

[Humble Poirot]

Vanilla vezok likes day cause he can talk in the thread.
Non-Vanilla vezok doesn't likes days that go on forever cause he can't use the powers he has.

vezok, either play or ask for a replacement. You seem to have given up and are using the time to take revenge for failing or something? Because I can see you check regularly to post stupidities as if you were being such a smart guy.

I won't be sad if they lynch you, even if you are a PR which you sometimes seem to be softclaiming. But the funny thing is that you refer to yourself as

Vanilla

Vezok. Is that some kind of alternative getaway in case you don't need to claim?

Don't throw WIFOM all around. Thanks.

[Humble Poirot]

Well no.
I refered to me as vanilla vezok cause that's the role that does nothing.
I am playing this game and enjoing it. I don't care if you don't like my playstyle. It paid off for me.

Fair enough, I got the wrong impression. Promise me you won't give up if you're town.

[Humble Poirot]

fast post with votecount. I'll have more time later tonight.
-------------------

Unofficial Vote count 1.9 by Humble Poirot.

Oso (0)
Tasky (0)
KageLord (0)
Humble Poirot (1) jayfl383
q21 (0)
jayfl383 (0)
xvart (0)
quadz08 (5) Humble Poirot, xvart, vezokpiraka, q21, Oso.
diddin (1) Sotty7
vezokpiraka (3) Tasky, KageLord, Super Smash Bros. Fan
Sotty7 (0)
Super Smash Bros. Fan (2) diddin, quadz08

Not voting:

With 12 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.

Deadline is July 26, 10:30 AM (GMT + 10:00).

aprox 58 hours to go.

------------------
PREVIEW EDIT:

Humble, your case on quadz is pretty good. He has been wishy washy and slow to commit, very timid to make any kind of waves. It is suspicious, I agree.

IMPORTANT

Homework: search quadz in ISO and look for the names Kage and vezo. Vezo is voted by quadz after agreeing with Kagelord. Vezo is repeatedly signaled as the scummiest person so far until ISO 21 where he votes against SSBF (causing a 3-3 tie vezok-Kage)

As other suspects, he mentions Vezok, Kagelord and xvart. Kagelord had never been mentioned before (save that agreement against vezok). Suspected for the first time, now that Kage is tied against vezok (whom quadz was voting).

If this doesn't seem extremely fishy... I don't know what does.

Are you saying that he is sheeping here? Also I'm not getting what you are driving at as far as the 3-3 tie with vezo and Kage goes. I'm not making the connection on how that is important.

What I'm saying is that quadz never points anything scummy about kagelord but he does about Vezok. Then, after Kagelord is attacked by Oso, Kage appears on his IGMEOY list without much else. He has been saying vezok is scummy but ends up saying that he will vote just about anyone to ensure a lynch
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 2#p2385232:

Sorry, that was poor wording on my part. In my head, my earlier declaration of vezok as 2nd scummiest meant that I would switch to him if that's where the lynch looks to be happening. I pointed you out specifically because you're on the general radar and I hadn't mentioned you.

To clarify, I am willing to switch to KageLord or vezok to ensure a lynch. I may be willing to switch to others as well, if the need arises.

bolded for emphasis.

The 3-3 tie issue talks about the fact that quadz seem to pretend that he would need to vote kage at some point to ensure a lynch (I understand it means he votes whoever has more votes to make sure there's no tie). But the tie could've been decided either way just before I unvoted vezok (with clear instructions that said I was ok with a vezok lynch and that I was voting quadz for the moment) so it didn't make sense for him to say he'd vote kage if he had to when vezok was just as likely a lynch.

That is what kagelord asked him and what quadz answered in the text I quoted saying it was basically all good.

TL,DR (because I'm not sure I was clear and I've been distracted by external forces ):
quadz didnt really suspect Kage.
quadz did claim to suspect vezok (even agreeing with Kage).
quadz votes SSBF
quadz says that he will vote Kage if necessary.
quadz apparently doesn't favor vezok lynch over kage. He just wants to avoid nolynch.
lame.

See ya.

Tasky and Jay may have to be replaced soon.

[Humble Poirot]

@xvart:
It's that and some gut feeling. He and vezok look scummiest to me right now. SSBF's grasping of straws and dislike of defense of others comes across as scummier to me than vezok's short posts. Not by a huge stretch, but still more. But like I said, I'm willing to lynch either.

We need to ensure that we lynch someone; D1 ends in 3 days.

I will switch my vote to KageLord if the deadline comes up and my vote is needed on him to ensure a lynch today; that is a significantly better option than allowing a NL. I say this so that (if it comes to it) everyone understands why I did it, and so people can inform me if that's a terrible idea.

I thought it would be good to add this. This was the comment that caused kagelord to question him about his attitude towards lynching to avoid a deadline.

[Humble Poirot]

quadz apparently doesn't favor vezok lynch over kage. He just wants to avoid nolynch.
lame.

Please, explain why this is lame. I'll take a mislynch over a nolynch on Day 1 every time. At least we get some information this way. Even if I'm to be lynched, that's all right; at least I'll be giving town information to work with in subsequent Days.

The lame final signature was a response to the whole explanation, not the lynch over NL argument.

You never seemed to be interested in pushing SSBF. You just voted him. Then, you came out your way to prepare justifications to vote just about anyone and basically asked "if it was ok". You seemed to not care if you voted Kagelord over Vezok despite your posting history could only indicate otherwise.

And now you're nitpicking on tini tiny points ignoring every other post and still not trying to lynch anyone?

The people who were on my wagon, for one. You can bet that at LEAST one scum, probably more, is on it.

This is the utmost tribute to mildness.

It takes 7 to lynch. There's 12 players. 7 + 1 lynchee. That leaves 4 people out of which 2,3 or all need to be scum for that statement to become false. That's the same thing you could say about everyone.

Even if the lynch went through with less people (which I don't think good, I think days need a hammer at some point) it's a non statement. Specially because you don't particularly look at someone. You don't try to explain why you think X is just taking advantage of your scummyness to mislynch you, as you pretend.

They know that I'm playing scummily, and so will be a pretty easy lynch, so voting for me is relatively safe. I wouldn't be surprised if every scum is voting for me at the end of the day, if they aren't already (assuming I'm the lynch).

Who do you think is scum on your wagon so far? Who's voting you for which scummy plays just because it's safe?

You are saying absolutely nothing. What you say could be said in every other case and serve NO purpose. You are not even denying you're scummy so you offer no defense at all for your actions but your word that you aren't scum.

[Humble Poirot]

In my opinion. Just hammer, it won't make any difference and it saves us from an ugly (although) unlikely surprise.

I haven't carefully read all those SSBF's/xvarts back and forths but I'd like to know what SSBF's purpose is. Why is he only going after xvart and not the rest of the guys who voted him? The amount of things that can be discussed prior to a flip are wifomic to a certain degree and subject to scum manipulation. Scum might try, knowing a flip, to arrange things in such a way they can do what's best for them (excused by their prior preparation).

Anyway. I encourage you to do some vote analysis during the night and try to see if motives for each players actions make sense in context. Try to put yourself in their shoes as best as you can. That's my only advice to get the best out of a game.

Farewell.

PS: One more thing. Displaying confidence might be good to gather support, but (there's always one) one shouldn't become fanatized by it's own case to the point that you forget to stand back and think about all the possibilities.

Mod: As the replacements will probably come at night. I'd like you to check the candidates to ensure they will stay fairly active. Thanks

[Humble Poirot]

Spamming is not cool. Stop playing as if it was mafia over chat. There's a preview button for a reason.

Each time you're about to post something read it with the preview feature and make sure you're saying something worthy.

As much as I'd hope we'd be lucky enough to avoid a mislynch, I'll want to know what information transpires after quadz08 is lynched.

It shows that you probably haven't even read the whole game but skimmed a few lines. Am I wrong? What have you read?

Did you even read the cases on him? What about the cases of vezok?

Mind providing us with a list of your suspects and the reasons for that suspicion?

I should also contribute something. Is anyone else suspicious of jay? He somehow reminds me of a player I've played with in my last game who was scum, it's basically gut feeling though

That¡s not a contribution. You say nothing. You didn't even mention who that player was or in which game so that people could try to follow your train of thoughts.

. And vezo, you're a enigma in every game lol. I've seen your work. Keep up the scumhunting;

Do you feel he is scumhunting? Is he scumhunting more than Diddin? What about Oso? What about xvart? How do you compare the amount of scumhunting between each player in this game.

I'll be sure to cooperate and give my thoughts in plenty of posts--I posted frequently in my last game, people even complained .

You haven't given any defined thought yet. There's no need to post plenty of posts, just to post

USEFUL

ones. Which was your last game? link? How did it go? Could you give a brief summary about it?

If you spam you're hurting town. Don't do it. Think before posting.

Good. We lynched obvious scum.
Two more to go. I bet money on SSBF and diddin.

Since when is quadz obvscum? You never said such thing. You just voted him "for pressure". Did you know you've

NEVER

mentioned diddin? At all. You never mentioned SSBF as a scum suspect either.

This has to be your scummiest post to date.

You keep acting so scummy that people start doubting if someone would act so stupidly as scum. It's a nice tactic if you are, indeed, scum. I don't plan to allow this behaviour.

Farewell.

An irritated Humble Poirot.

[Humble Poirot]

Hi, i'm logging in through a cell phone.
I was away for a couple of days and came back home to find my ISP provider was having some trouble.
Anyway, it's supposed to be working by now so when I get home tonight I'll post again.

[Humble Poirot]

I've caught up until the moment I posted from my cell and have made 2 posts about it (one dedicated to my new

It's a mess right now so I'll probably just wrap it up and go to sleep leaving the rest of page 21/22 for tomorrow and post what I have as tidily as I can.

[Humble Poirot]

EBWOP: I meant to say new friend in a sarcastic manner, then erased it and wrote enemy, then erased it and wrote nemesis, then tried to remember of a nemesis of Poirot but couldn't find any. Then I forgot to complete it.

I finally gave up sleeping the hours I should and I'm reading 21-22 (but without developing much)

I'll tidy up the posts in a while and you'll be able to enjoy them forever.

Don't rush to answer. Think first. Investigate first. Then reply.

[Humble Poirot]

I saw diddin's claim and this are my notes:

After posting in the neighbour chat I thought this:

The plan -> wait until the absolute last minute before posting in the neighbor chat so that scum would not be able to act upon it.

I stated that I thought there was a scum amongs the 3 of us because that would be a perfect protection against a scumkill. The remaining players would go at each other.

I started a super detailed excel spreadsheet about each vote and it's reasons but failed to continue after page 2.

I ended up doing just a vote detail of everyone to have the basic skeleton of what had happened. I didn't make much of it either.

ChibiSanNub/sotty7:

xvart | vezok, diddin

diddin:

friend, unvote, Tasky, unvote, Vezok, unvote, SSBF, Quadz.

friend/Humble:

SSBF, diddin, vezok | Quadz

jay:

friend, (later voted humble/friend again in the famous post)

Kagelord:

q21, vezok.

Oso:

Tasky, revote Tasky, unvote, Kagelord, quadz.

q21:

q21, Kagelord, unvote, quadz.

quadz:

ChibiSanNub, unvote, vezok, SSBF,

SSBF:

diddin, Tasky, unvote, vezok.

Tasky/Tazaro:

Friend, Vezok | quadz

Vezok:

Tasky, unvote, quadz.

From the top of my head.
Jay is still nothing.
Kagelord and sotty have given reasons for the vezok lynch.
Oso, although I've have plenty of disagreements with him. Seems to be trying to analyze things.
---------------------------------
Then I went away and just forgot about it really, knowing I that I was probably safe due to the mafia-town-town protection I believed to be set up.

Now, I've skimmed a bit and I'm catching up:

- Vezok has been scummy in every way.
- The amount of anti-town players this game is heart-breaking.
- We're losing grasp of the game. That's my feeling. The amount of fluff being posted after Tazaro's incorporation to the game is absurd.
EDIT AFTER COMPLETING THE READ: We might be able to overcome it if we don't jump to conclusions every five seconds.

The whole deal of SSBF pushing hard for xvart's response in case quadz flipped town made me uneasy.

I consider xvart as one of my most town players. Why? Because not only I have evidence that he scumhunts but I see also a commitment that puts him in the spotlight and he doesn't run away from it for fear of persecution. His motive was conviction and has always looked sincere.

That's why SSBF's attitude troubled me. Scum would know quadz flip would not be mafia. That way, they could try to trap xvart based on that knowledge. Anyway, SSBF doesn't do that and more and more, I get the feeling that, although particular, his formatted posts and queries are really looking for something.

Ninja'd by xvart.
Post after I saw xvart's question: I feel very uncomfortable about Poirot. I've tried to reexamine stuff and he seems to be dangerous if he's scum. He seems to be intelligent, but this makes me more suspicious about him

Yeah. The same thing I feel about Oso. Don't you feel the same way about him or am I the only seemingly smart person around? Also, have you read the game yet?

joining the attack against quadz who played rather newbishly.

Oh... so quadz played newbishly but you didn't say (or didn't care about it) so earlier? You just hammered without caring about it?

And xvart, it was either you or Poirot who said that quadz was obvscum; you guys went over the cliff on that one.

No. Clearly you haven't read the game. It was xvart and, so what? He stated he was sure and wasn't.... so? What's the follow up, if any?

Yeah, and you thought he was scum, eh. Mislynches almost always happen on day one, and people should think that they probably have the wrong guy on the noose on day one. But no nightkill? This deprives us of information about the mafia's nightkill strategy. We who survive need to be organized but not pounce on a player like quadz, but pounce on a player who's scumminess can't be just bad gameplay but is actually from bona fide scum tells.

^^ FLUFF ALERT. FLUFF ALERT.

Tazaro, you said NOTHING.

And then you go and keep spamming.

xvart, I wouldn't suggest pouncing on anyone. We still have to watch people.

oh my god... You've replaced a game, hammered someone and now on day 2 say we have to watch people?

Read the Game!!! Play THE GAME!!!

I have to see how Poirot does things later,

What about the things friend/Poirot did so far?

This was followed by more fluff that doesn't need to be posted.

Again, you keep multiposting. STOP IT. PLEASE. I BEG YOU. Use the damn preview button.

Effectively, my scum list is nilch. I have to read more and discard gut feelings. And sleep before doing any of that.

Then stop spamming and read the game.

---------------------
diddin 427: I understand you wanting to analyze me again and I understand the concern but I've never seen how a replacement could be indicative of alignment. I've seen scum and town replace for various non-game reasons.
---------------------
I like this post very much: Nice bandwaggon analysis. I didn't bother to look that much at the waggon on day 1 because I thought that quadz would flip scum but I did note vezok's absurd call that quadz was obvscum later and his lack of anything for the vote. Vezok is the scummiest player I've seen for a while. The worst thing being, that he seems to relish the thought of playing as scummily as possible.

I need to think over what you say. All in all, I think that xvart's and mine's are the most town-ish votes of that waggon. Oso's vote came after a Kagelord disagreement and that change of mind made me think highly of him.
-------------------------
Oso's 1,2,3... of this post are unnecesary in my opinion.

No kill. Let's enjoy. No use speculating. At least, not for town.
-------------------------

I am even more unsure now about vezok though. A lot of this stuff against him could be blamed on just bad (if you don't want to give me that, then at least awkward) town play. I am just sort of unwilling to give him that free ride though since his play could just be somewhat bad scum play as well. If he doesn't show improvement here as far as scumhunting efforts go, I would still be willing to try for his lynch D2.

Dude. Why would you be much more unsure about vezok? You were an important pusher of his lynch yesterday and now you are acting all shy about it.

A doc should NEVER reveal himself but in Mass Claim. Period.

What just happened?
It doesn't make sense. What is happening?

You're enjoying this, aren't you? What's the purpose of this? Keep in anti town character in hopes that people won't lynch you for being just too scummy?

Tazaro 433, 434, 435 triple post.
So? What information did you gain?
434 is actually a good question, too bad you had to waste 2 posts to ask it, specially when the second post only makes it harder to be understood.

I hope nobody despises my triple posts> I can stop if asked.

Please. Please, do.
Also, you voted diddin, what can you tell us about his play on day 1?

I keep procrastinating with the reading. And I'm not going to make a list of official suspects unless those suspects are on that list for more than gut feeling. My suspect list is diddin, ?, ?. My people to look out for are everyone, my people who are probably town are Oso and Sotty.

If you haven't read the game yet... Why are you posting so much?

Imagine if Sherlock Holmes tried to catch up a suspect with just the name of the client that brought up the case.

Client A: Hi Mr.Holmes, I'm Dave Mulbarry, A strange thing happened to me that needs your skills.
Sherlock: Oh!!! Ms. Mulbarry did it! With the Candle stick, in the kitchen!
Client A (confused): I'm single.
Sherlock: Ohhhh... Never mind then. Go on...

443: More fluff from Tazaro makes me nervous. I thought Tasky was town. He looked eager to find scum even though he used lame techniques. But you, you look like you never stop to think about anything.

This game will not judge you by how quick you answer but it WILL judge the content. If it were just for your play, you'd be up on my scum-list right now for extra spam and mildness. You talk but do not do.
-------------------------

The Humble reread is coming, I have Band Camp today and WILL do it this evening. Trust me on this one. The reason I'm rereading Humble is my only read on him in the past was town, but that read wasn't a very strong one. I like to have better reads D2 than D1.

Seriously?
Are you kidding me?
You are now trying to deflect the wagon from you to Hubmle?
Half of the people here consider him town. I don't want him lynched.

This isn't working today diddin.

Vote diddin

Are YOU kidding us? How did he deflect a waggon on me? Why aren't you deflecting a waggon on him? You don't want me lynched because half of the people think I'm town? So what? Do you think i'm town? Why?
----------------------
Kage votes vezok and all is back to it's place.

Now, diddin... You vote vezo in 448 but... weren't you going to reread me in ISO first?
-----------------------

diddin and KageLord, engaged in tag-teaming vezo, a weak player? I believe it.

Have you EVEN READ THE GAME? You have no concerns about vezok's unexplained posts and votes? You disagree with Kagelord's vote and reasoning? If so... explain how, where and why!!!

That's just another fluff post that doesn't face any issue but appeals of emotion that would suggest Kagelord-Diddin scumteam and Vezok-town without explaining why.

I'd like to quote Penn & Teller now...

quick reread of Humble reinforced my townread. I can't find a single thing in his posts that's blatantly scummy.

tazaro, vezo has been scummy all game and you can't deny it. Saying "we lynched obv scum" when he was only voting quadz to help the wagon and he's never mentioned me or SSBF, but he thinks we're obvious scum too. Not to mention this last vote is a thinly-disguised wagonvote where he blatantly lies saying I'm trying to deflect attention to Humble.

Diddin. You're right on the 2nd paragraph but... The first one... Seems a bit poor. As if you just wanted to eliminate the issue.

And another. Yes, I said vezo was a weak player in this game. That's why he's easy to use by scum to divert attention.

What makes him weak town and not scum? I'd like to know because all I'm seeing he is confortable with the situation.

This is something I'm trying to keep an eye on, who is confortable when town is fucking up. Almost always: Scum.
----------------------------

You say I am a weak player.
Scum always try to force a mislynch on me.
If diddin flips town tazaro should be the next to go.

Another bullshit make-no-sense-at-all post from scummy-guy. Appeal to emotion and no explanation for a lynch candidate.

Also, you make no mention about the whole quadz is obvscum when he was hammered when you had never mentioned him before.

That makes me think you're scum trying to disguise yourself as if you had no real knowledge about quadz alignment. If you've lasted this much playing like this, maybe you're smarter than I thought you were.
----------------------------

Look at vezo's meta from games past. I'm just saying...

Saying what? That vezok is town? Why? Point examples as town and scum and how is his play this game indicative of the former.

I.E, vezo is VI.

What about you? Again, What gives you the impression Vezok is VI and not scum? Even if he was, why not lynch him yesterday instead of quadz who was just "an information lynch" according to you? Who is scum if vezok isn't? Why are they scum and not VI's?

Triple Post: Don't mean to offend vezo at all.

I'm starting to think you do this triple post thing on purpose. look at the damned timestamps.
-----------------------------
Hi Aran.
Again, I don't think speculating about town PRs that saved the night is healthy. Let's stop that.

Aran, you're fosing diddin for his first post of the current day. Have you read day 1? Why not? You act as if it didn't exist. What about Jay's actions?
----------------------------

quadz08 could have been an information lynch, but I really don't see anybody mentioning him anymore. I couldn't expect what people were going to say, but just like other lynches that happen so early in a game, it seemed to be good to get it done with.

It looks like you're changing your excuses fast. Read your own ISO and tell me if you've been consistent regarding that hammer.
----------------------------
-LONG ANSWER TO Aran follows this post.
----------------------------

And another. Yes, I said vezo was a weak player in this game. That's why he's easy to use by scum to divert attention.

So you don't think vezo is scum in the least?

How should I know?; his game play is VI.

Is he the only one? Who must we lynch? Why? Define his playstyle and why it's VI.
----------------------------

I like everything about the quadz wagon except for the Tazaro hammer. It just looked like a big HEY LOOK AT ME post and it seems like he was trying to buy towncred by hammering even when KageLord was committed to the hammer already. Overall I don't have much else to say about the quadz wagon.

Oh, so Vezok's vote was nice and dandy then?
----------------------------

Ok yeah I saw where he missed where KageLord was going to hammer, the hammerpost still looks like an attempt to buy town cred.

How would he win town cred (if he was scum) by hammering town?
---------------------------

Vezo lynch is looking better and better because tazaro's insistence vezo is just a VI could be a potential scumlink.

I assume you've never played with vezo before.

Did you? What do you gain from that experience?
---------------------------

I hope you have good insight about diddin, Humble Poirot. He's rubbing me the wrong way.

Forgive the outburst but... What the fuck is this? If he is rubbing you the wrong way then explain to others why he is.

Also, didn't you say I was smart scum or something? Are you asking ME to lay out a case for you?
--------------------------

If Tazaro continues to defend vezokpiraka in the magnitude he's doing it, depending on vezokpiraka's flip, it is really going to bite him in the back later on.

This is extremely mild considering the emphasis you put earlier when you said "Defending is a scumtell". Anyway, what I think is that there's no reason for Tasky/tazano to be so adamant about the defending a possible VI whose alignment he is not confident about. The worst part being, Tazaro does not explain anything although he does post as if he wanted to break a record.

[Humble Poirot]

Read it closely Aranneas.

On the quote from my predecessor that's getting tossed around a bit: it's been bugging me as well, I will say that much.

Bugging you how?

He obviously got a very strong read out of something the man put up.

Did he now? What EXACTLY gives you the impression he had a strong read against friend/me. He

hardclaimed

a role and asked for protection. He apparently claimed a day actioning role with knowledge of scum. He said 100 %.

If you're not claiming anything it's because you do not possess such certainty. Therefore, the whole thing is moot.

I've been digging through his ISO and I think I may know what it is, though whether or not I share his opinion is still in question

Funny. Because Jay's wasn't an opinion. It was a borderline (bullshit) claim.

leaning towards yes, however, contingent on his responses to the following.

No, no no... Jay needed no responses from me. He said I was scum. Period.

You're pretending to carry a torch of suspicion when Jay never did such thing. He just CLAIMED that I was scum.

The possibility of a lyncher is starting to really form. Let's see what your reasons for "leaning towards yes" are...

q21

started mild and is getting into the game. I dislike his defense/attack on xvart, which appears to me as if he was accusing whoever questions his motives.

Lets analyse the responses to that self vote... 9 out of 11 players other than myself moved on without so much as a comment (maybe they laughed, maybe they didn't; I don't know, I don't have little cameras at everyone's computers to see if they're laughing). 2 out of eleven people called me out for it. Even if neither you not SSBF are scum, those numbers still prove that most townies paid it very little mind.

So... What's the relevance of this? What do you gain?

What do you think was gained by this statement? Perhaps it was simply a throwaway statement; perhaps there was an actual agenda behind it. I don't believe you have no opinion on the topic, however, especially since you're the one that called attention to it. The fact that whatever you may be thinking, you keep it back... I dunt liek sekerts.

I'm trying to read people by asking questions. I gain insight. What on earth do you mean by "agenda behind it"? It's hard to understand what's your point. Is it because I didn't reask him a question he didn't answer? If it's that, I just missed it like I miss so much of the questions people ignore (vezok is a great example, Tazaro is another). Even though I may forget things my posts are always useful to remember what I noted.

I call bull here. Has anyone actually clicked the link? What about that post smacks of 'lacking conviction'? I'm having trouble seeing it and am hoping someone could elaborate for me.

You call bull??? Ok. I'll just post quadz post again:

Ok, I've now done a re-read of the whole thread. woooooo! Dang, we spent a long time arguing about Tasky's questions. Ugh.

My number one suspect right now is SSBF. First and foremost is this:

Defending people is a scum tell, period.

This is part of his ISO #9. To me, what this statement boils down to is that if a player has a reasonable point saying that a player is not scum (or may not be scum, or whatever), he shouldn't bring it up if that person is thought to be scummy. That makes no sense to me. "Gee, I have this opinion that, if brought up, may keep us from lynching a townie. But that's a no-no! Only scum defend people!" I just don't see how forcing out opinions is pro-town in any way.

There is also this (found in his ISO #8):

Absolutely hate this. I see absolutely no purpose of that self-vote, especially since we're already getting something to work on in this game.

SSBF made a pretty big deal about what was clearly a jokey vote. Like someone (diddin, maybe?) said earlier, it seems like he's grasping at straws. Yes, we were in the serious stage. But come on, it's a game, dangit! Let a man make a dumb joke. It meant nothing and did no harm to scumhunting. Not worth the attention it's gotten.

I also have an eye on KageLord, xvart, and vezok, but nobody has really exhibited any huge scumtells that I've seen. SSBF seems to me the wisest D1 lynch, at this point.

A)He votes him for one phrase that SSBF "shouldn't" say.
b)He says SSBF is grasping at straws for taking a jokey vote seriously
C) He says he has his eye in more people (kagelord appears for the first time)
D) He calls SSBF the "wisest" lynch but doesn't say anything else.
Addendum: He didn't push SSBF later (claiming he was "waiting for more scumtelles to show up")
I hope that was elaborate enough.

Is it the fact that he voted for the guy? (sarcasm, for the tone reading impaired) Because that's about as much conviction as it's possible to convey in this game, short of an investigation claim.

You think you're being sarcastic? You're being purposely blind.

You think quadz showed equal or more conviction than xvart?

It's a mafia discussion that pertains directly to what's going on in the thread. You've stated an opinion based on your interpretation of apparent emotional context, but you haven't backed it up with anything. I would like to hear the deeper thought process behind this.

No. Seriously, No. Don't lie so much in one paragraph. You're the one who isn't backing up things and just throwing words around. Read my ISO with a clear head instead of looking for reasons to support what you say was jay's suspicion. I explained many times how and why quadz was mild.

Read the game. You haven't talked about anything related to it. It's plain that after Oso asked you about Jay's crazy accusation and dissapearance you only ISO'd me to see what you could say against me.

You're ignoring everything about quadz and xvart and vezok and everoyne that happened during day 1 because you don't know about it.

He doesn't stick to the known bandwagon and tries instead to dig into the motivation behind the post. This is normally a very good thing. Unfortunately, it doesn't come off sincere to me here. You imply (and explicitly state) scumminess without really telling us why. Now I use gut reads as much as the next guy, potentially more than some of the mafiaborgs you have around here; but when the man flips town, it does not end up reflecting well on you. You need to be prepared to either chin up and take the suspicion that follows, or explain further. I would greatly prefer the latter.

No. This is NOT happening. You're telling ME to avoid using gut reads? REad the game. Read about Oso and me. Read the game.

This is all fine from my perspective, especially in light of the diddin issues that came up later on which I've commented on (which I will update in a separate post, since this one looks hella long in preview). However, there is one slight problem: you never followed up on any of this. As town it's somewhat excusable; you simply found better reads and decided to stick with those.

Great! You CAN think for yourself. Tell me if at any time, you think I stopped scumhunting because who I wanted was getting lynched.

Personally I would try not leave such things aside until I acquired enough information that I was satisfied, but that may just be a playstyle difference, I don't know.

sure, although you do leave AN ENTIRE GAME aside to make this lame ISO attack.

You don't look like you knew the context of anything outside My ISO.

Vezok has my potential vote if I can't get a quadz lynch. So for all intents and purposes Vezok and Kagelord are tied. If someone chooses to vote, they can't claim it's because someone has got the lead or any other excuse.

Has anyone mentioned this before? If so, please speak up. You imply negative connotations for quadz's voting pattern, and in the next line of the same post say that you're prepared to do the exact same thing to ensure a lynch of someone you think is scummy.

No. No. No. You're getting on my nerves. I showed what was scummy about vezok and I showed was was scummy about quadz. They were second and first on my list and I tried to lynch the first. If I couldn't, I'd accept lynching the second

AS OPPOSED TO KAGELORD who at the time was tied and then first in the votecount but, of course, you wouldn't know anything about that since you didn't read anything but my ISO

.

This is one of the most blatant hypocritical contradictions I've seen and makes me more uncomfortable than anything else you've written. The problem continues below in a more in-depth discussion of Kage's reaction to the same.

No, this is one of your more farfetched lies to date and I'm really angry about it.

The only reasonable explanation I can find for such poor lies is that you're a desperate lyncher.

As scum OR town that post is a disgrace for the game.

To top it off, he continued to use this argument against quads right up until he gets lynched, and no-one called him on it (if I missed someone who did, I apologize). Is anyone getting good vibes off this in context?

yara, yara... you keep saying that I'm wrong without talking about why and where but, to give you credit, this time you realize THERE IS a context (which you don't care to read, surprisingly...)

This is all fine as a defense in normal circumstances; except for the fact that you're responding to what you see as an appeal to emotion with emotionally charged language. Will someone play a really fast game of word association with me? I say 'fanatic'. What are the first three words that pop into your head?

If you had planned to play the 'logic vs instinct' card, you're kind of circumventing your own argument here. On it's own I would just say you probably just got carried away with your argument and didn't think too much of it. In light of my suspicions above I'm less inclined to let it slide.

blah blah blah. You HAD to say something about it even though you're not to sure what to say. Actually, this shows that you wrote this post as you read my ISO, otherwise, you wouldn't have brought the whole point about gut earlier. Which shows you know squat about the game. Which shows that post wins the records for amount of lies in one post".

Congratulations!

Summary/conclusion: His manner of play makes me nervous from his opening post. He does make strong points and logical conclusions a good portion of the time, but I cant't help but be scratching my head at some of the apparent throwaway reads he puts in. Would reeeally like to hear from him on this, because if he is town he may be one of our biggest assets and I'd like to get this stuff out of the way asap.

Oh no you didn't. After throwing crap at me for every detail without caring about context or about making sense, not even having read the game... You come and say that I "throwaway my reads"? Where does that leave the rest of the players?

In five words:
I just can't believe it.

Nice Big Fos: Aran

[Humble Poirot]

I've skimmed 21-22 and will say a few things just so you know.

In any case, I will read more carefully and develop later on.

@Oso: I clearly explained that your case on KG and my case on quadz are nothing alike.
You attacked KG for not claiming to be sure about himself and the 6-minute thing. But KG did keep pressure on vezok which quadz didn't (amongs other things, but that is the only relation I could find).

My defense of vezo is justified by the attacks on vezo by diddin that are of the same bad character as the "direct contradiction" that q21 pointed out.

... What?

Do you think vezok is town? YES OR NO? Why?
Who is scum? Why?

Thank you very much.

As you know, I confirm We're neighbors (alignment not confirmed).

diddin, why didn't you try and push sotty today if you had a possible explanation for the no kill?

I believe his claim. Especially since Neighbour was spelled with a "u." The mod is Australian, I think.

UNVOTE: diddin

He can be neighboUr scUm, you know. Also, Oso confirmed it 4 minutes ago. You make no sense.

Would you folks feel comfortable summarizing the neighbour chat from last night for our benefit? Why/why not?

I'll post the entire thing if it's allowed. I meant to ask the mod about this but then went away.

MOD: Can we? We're not breaking any rules.

No, as I said in the QT, do not directly quote anything from the QT. Paraphrasing is of course fine.

In fact, I still need to give it a good read.

Wait a minute, the "neighbour" thing is believable, but the "town jailkeeper" isn't necessarily true.
And I'm willing to bet the "neighbor" thing is used by the mod because at least one of the three neighbors is scum. Or else you could be called masons that may or may not have power roles.

FoS: diddin

. I'm not sure, but you could be making up the sotty thing on the back of the no-nightkill that could have another explantion.

Couldn't you have thought about this EARLIER? Why the FOS?

I am going to re-iso the poirot and oso confrontation in light of this. I suggest others do the same.

Oh my God... Are you going to ISO me AGAIN? Will you read the game this time or that's still not worth your time?

Were the neighbors able to talk pre-game?

Yes. But nobody said much. I'll be more specific later. If I can, I'll just copy paste it.

I get the impression that it was pretty much agreed upon that someone in the neighborhood was scum. Is that correct?

It was my safe assumption and I declared my suspect was diddin within the chat.

If I were scum, what benefit would I have from claiming a provable power role?

Good point. One half-smart alternative I can find is that you were in a scumteam with sotty and nokilled to set the claim up but I think it might be a bit farfetched. Another that looks more likely is that you wanted to out a real doctor. I'm willing to trust the claim for the time being.

If I were scum, what benefit would I have from claiming a provable power role? I may very well be the only protective role in the game. I would be safer claiming VT if I were scum since the flip of another protective role could possibly lead to my lynching.

How are you provable?

If we lynch you and you flip scum, I'm essentially clear.

Seriously? That's what you meant by provable? I thought that you could prove yourself if he was a blocked PR.[/quote]

Considering I doubt there are two protective roles in a mini normal, another protective role flips, and I'm in trouble. Why would I take that risk?

Unless you wanted to out that role, no reason. As I said, I trust you for now.

-------------------------------
-------------------------------
Forgive the lack of tidyness. I'm usually tidy if I'm up to date.

Lame Summary:

Vezok is my lynch candidate for the reasons I've had all game and the reasons he keeps adding with every post. He is not trying to find scum but to lynch everyone but him. He is calling conspiracies and probably using the too anti-town to be scum excuse.

Aran is lying just too much for no reason.

SSBF has gained some town points lately.

Xvart is still strong town read.

Oso Diddin are still great questions. I was practically certain one of us HAD to be scum. I'm not sure now. I'm not willing to test diddin when there's much more scummy people around and he has claimed a VERY pro town role.

sotty, so far, I've seen town. He could've been protected. Need to read his ISO and see how he is connected to people (friends and foes)

Tazaro needs to stop spamming. I need to understand him.

KageLord still looks town to me. I need to make sure later I'm not just skimming him because I've made my mind or something. But he keeps acting town.

q21: I need to pay attention to him again but he has somehow gotten lost between all the crap that's been flying around.

I don't even know if I'm forgetting someone.

I'm not even aware of the votecount. I won't rush my vote.

I need to sleep.

Good night.

.............................Humble Poirot.............................

PS: If I offended someone in any way. This is just a game, I'm sorry. I try to not get irritated about games but it sometimes beats me momentarily.

PS2: Forgive the horrendous spelling mistakes.

[Humble Poirot]

Tazaro: 54 posts in 5 days. Mosts of them do not even make sense, have plenty of mistakes, contradict earlier posts, don't take into account anything that's happened but the last few posts.

Tazaro. Seriously, stop spamming.

I'm just passing through and won't be able to post until tonight or tomorrow. I foresee a page 30 if you keep this absurd trend.

Posting a lot does not make you town, in fact, most of your posts are making you a very strong scum suspect in my book. Stop it. You are not even reading what people post about you. You just ignored my posts.

I see there's been a lot going on but I urge everyone to STOP before acting and take time to read and think.

Don't claim for the sake of it.

I'll come back with clear posts for people to understand and answer but try and realize not everyone can post 10 times a day (and it's not healthy either).

[Humble Poirot]

To quote Eric Cartman...

(long pause) ... THE FUCK...

Seriously, guys... (what) THE FUCK...

I've read from work and can't believe the quality of this game has lowered so much.

Tazaro has accomplished to evade every question and destroy every game related content he's touched. He has never addressed and issue as he should've and continually appealed to emotion without offering tangible explanations. Worst now, he is crazily vote hopping.

He has even beaten Vezok in scummyness (and that is saying something).

My dream involves a modkill of both players (and ideally they flip scum but the double death would be gratifying enough regardless of alignment, specially considering we wouldn't have them to spoil the game near the end).

Oso's vote on sotty7 is far (I mean REALLY far) from satisfactory and I'll develop on this and more things when I get home. The post will be as brief and useful as possible so that everyone reads it and answers the questions directed at them.

As xvart said, don't rush the damn voting, we are at a point where we don't know where we stand anymore. Don't vote without a clear case. Single line vague reasons are not enough. All this is making a mess out of the game and ONLY benefits scum. We won't be able to analyze the past if you keep adding garbage all over. That's a nice scumtactic that allows scum to manipulate emotions far into the game because no one can remember how they got there.

Again, stop.

[Humble Poirot]

Humble Poirots's Unofficial Vote Count Vote count 2.35

Since this post:
Sotty unvote
tazzaro Diddin
Kagelord unvote
diddin unvote
diddin tazaro
Oso Sotty
q21 tazaro
SSBF tazaro
Kage Tazaro
Tazaro sotty
Sotty Oso
Tazaro Oso
Vezok Oso
Vezok Tazaro

Oso (2) Sotty7, Tazaro

Tazaro (6) Aranneas, diddin, q21, Super Smash Bros. Fan, KageLord, vezokpiraka

KageLord (0)
Humble Poirot (0)
q21 (0)
Aranneas (0)
xvart (0)
diddin (1) xvart,
vezokpiraka (0)
Sotty7 (0) Oso
Super Smash Bros. Fan (0)

Not voting: Humble Poirot

With 11 alive, it takes 6 votes to lynch.

Deadline is August 13th, 10:30 AM (GMT + 10:00).

If you see your name answer the question with the proper number, thanks. (Oso and Aran have posts dedicated to them)

@Vezok

1) Now, Did vezok know Tazaro would be lynched with that vote?
2) Why is it that you watched Oso?

@tazaro (do not fluff)

:
1) You perpetually ignore me, why?
2) You haven't read the game, why?
3) Why is vezok town? Why did you say he was town so much before he claimed?
- a) Develop on whatever meta you have.
4) Claim your Role and what actions did you perform, if any.
5)

I'm not suspicious of Aranneus at all.

Who

(How) is he a mafia suspect? He seems to like to play is all ,and scumhunt, too, and that strikes me as a town read.

Totally uncalled for. Specially when Aranneus had not done much yet but post an ISO against me, which I responded and he replied back. But you didn't say what you thought about that back and forth. Why do you think he was scumhunting?

Heh, that's sensible, Oso. I think I'd best follow reason:

UNVOTE

VOTE: Sotty7

BULLSHIT ALERT. The scummiest vote so far. Oso says something that doesn't even hold much and sotty hops on saying "Aye Aye cap'n"

I believe you Sotty, Oso is playing it real slippery. "Both Poirot and myself mentioned yesterday that we thought you had soft claimed" said Oso. Conspiracy post incoming: So... what, you, Oso, mentioned the soft claim to support the idea that vezo would have been the NK target instead of Sotty?

UNVOTE

VOTE: Oso

YOU ... JUST ... SAID ... OSO WAS RIGHT AND VOTED SOTTY FOR IT!!! How on earth can you change sides SO FAST!

Ultra Mega Archi Super Hand Of Suspicion on Tazaro

6) What do you have to say?

@Kagelord:

1) Refer to my post where I asked you why you seemed more unsure about vezok today, than yesterday.

@q21

Unvote, Vote Tazaro

I tipped when he unvoted diddin, then FoSed diddin in his very next post. Its just the culmination of an endless stream of self contradictions, not paying attention to his own posts - let alone others', fluff and nonsensical conspiracy theories. He has to go.

1) And everything else just doesn't matter? Wow.

@xvart

KageLord - do not claim now. I don't see the need and this mass claim is starting to irritate me. I do think if you can confirm or deny that whatever you did was successful or not would be beneficial, i.e. do you know if you were roleblocked?

1)I don't understand this. Why did you ask Kagelord if HE was roleblocked when diddin was the claimed Jailkeeper who said he blocked/protected Sotty?

I realize now that Kagelord claimed to be a Town PR or Scum RB. So he clearly said he wasn't town RB.

-diddin: claimed Jailkeeper. Kept (block+Protect) sotty7. Can't be confirmed by sotty7.
-Vezok: Claimed Watcher -> Watched Oso -> Kagelord visited Oso. This is confirmed by Kagelord. Vezok HAS to be a watcher, watcher has to be scum with Vezok or Kagelord has to be scum with Vezok.
-Kagelord: Has PR but not Roleblocker. Visited Oso. Can't be confirmed by Oso.

-Oso & Sotty are alive.

-Sotty might have been the target for a kill and protected. Hence, the no kill.
-Sotty might have been the killer and blocked.

Reads:

Scum:

Tazaro, Vezok, (diddin or Oso),

lyncher:

Aran

Neutral:

q21

Town:

xvart, Kagelord, Sotty, SSBF

Tazaro's nickname should be contradictory fluff (+ vote hopper)
Vezok: Pure anti-town who enjoys being so. Only saved by useful (for now) watcher role (allignment unknown).
Oso is high in my scumlist thanks to repeatedly making no sense. His motives have no logic and he seems to continually go after players for nothing ignoring what he calls VIs.
diddin's mildness so far has been unsettling. Making no mention about sotty after the no kill IS odd. I'm at the fence about him but not willing to lynch him right now.
q21 has flown under the radar.

Cool Facts & Notes:

- Tazaro's post was 68 when I called him upon the 54 posts. Since then, he has posted 36 mote times to reach the astonishing number of 104. Which amounts to 15 % of the game (and h only came in in the second day).

- I've seen mafia watcher. Do not consider any role to be town just because.
- Diddin never mentioned sotty before the claim on day 2 (I checked what xvart pointed out)
- Vezok didn't mention Kage or Oso either.
- Both kagelord's and Vezok's targets make sense after day 1.

- Vezok claimed at L-2

- Tazaro is eager for claims. all the time.

- Tazaro has repeated the same point against diddin the entire game. The point about the reread and then being blatantly town.

- Vezok voting of Oso makes no sense, of course. If it wasn't for that damn watcher claim...

- I'm at the point where Vezok's vote hopping doesn't raise an eyebrow anymore... He is alive just because he claimed that watch. Otherwise, I would've lynched him with my own hands, forget the other six votes.

-I'ts noteworthy that Vezok, as he did with quadz, is claiming to be sure that Tazaro is scum.

- 666 -> the devil's number and yet another post that shows that Tazaro has lost it
There's n^m theories, A gazillion combinations for you to rave upon. That's not contribution.

-

Relying on the roles, instead of scumhunting is overloading the WIFOM machine's capacity. Perfect for scum.

[Humble Poirot]

One more post for you (last one)

1.) I made a severe misplay. I gave the statements made by my predecessor in this role far too much credit. In my mind they were given as much or more weight than I might a note leaver role or something along those lines. Basically, I allowed the now famous post to fester in my mind until it became a real weight on me. I set out here to either prove or disprove it. Most likely not the best way I could have gone about it.

The problem is, you didn't do anything else.

You claim you were reading ISO's in your first post but you only posted about MY ISO. That probably means that you didn't really ISO anybody else. You haven't shown real interest in any other thing in the game.

Despite what you might say about not wanting anyone lynched so far, the post against me was clearly meant to set me up as a scummy person in the eyes of everyone. The intent was clear enough and what I pointed are still lies.

I don't try to tell you what you're thinking. I'm just stating that I believe your goal is not the same as town. Otherwise, you wouldn't need to lie as much as you did.

There's no evidence that you read the game "three times before You actually replaced in". You don't talk about anything from day 1 that is not Poirot-ISO related.

And I fundamentally don't see what the difference is between this and what quadz was doing. He had two suspects. He couldn't lynch one. He switched to the second.

I've written it multiple times. Read the third paragraph again

Vezok has my potential vote if I can't get a quadz lynch. So for all intents and purposes Vezok and Kagelord are tied. If someone chooses to vote, they can't claim it's because someone has got the lead or any other excuse.

Has anyone mentioned this before? If so, please speak up. You imply negative connotations for quadz's voting pattern, and in the

next line of the same post

say that you're prepared to do the

exact same thing

to ensure a lynch of someone you think is scummy. This is one of the most blatant hypocritical contradictions I've seen and makes me more uncomfortable than anything else you've written. The problem continues below in a more in-depth discussion of Kage's reaction to the same.

No, this is one of your more farfetched lies to date and I'm really angry about it.

The only reasonable explanation I can find for such poor lies is that you're a desperate lyncher.

As scum OR town that post is a disgrace for the game.

Not a lie if I think it's true. Your anger is fair and I apologize for causing it.

I'd like to see you actually address this point if you don't mind.

Agree on the disgrace bit in retrospect.

You're STILL doing it. Trying to paint me as if I were evading questions.

I DID address the point. In the very same post. After the quote before this one.
I say:

No. No. No. You're getting on my nerves. I showed what was scummy about vezok and I showed was was scummy about quadz. They were second and first on my list and I tried to lynch the first. If I couldn't, I'd accept lynching the second

AS OPPOSED TO KAGELORD who at the time was tied and then first in the votecount but, of course, you wouldn't know anything about that since you didn't read anything but my ISO.

As a bonus, you completely ignored one of the sentences that actually end up mattering. "I'd like to get this stuff out of the way asap"

I don't know what this means after the full assault you posted against me. Granted, you never said specifically I was scum, but that doesn't look much better.

was not just some flowery wording. I mentioned it previously, but I really did just want to get this out of the way. So we can get back to playing the game. I had let jay's post get to me, but if you logically defended against anything I could come up with what reason could I have to suspect you?

And? What's the conclusion?

As for lynchers and winning conditions, it matters as in, your win condition depends on the death of your target, which is not favorable for town.

If you're intent on cooperation, show some scumhunting. Read the game and ask questions about it to everyone or whatever method you think gets results (give explanations if possible). Give your opinions about everything that has been going on so far. Day 1 AND day 2.

[Humble Poirot]

I forgot to mention that I was thinking of voting Tazaro and performed a votecount to make sure it wouldn't be a hammer. Just to find out it was.

This one is for Oso.

Vezo, if he has true claimed then only one, AS IN A SINGLE PLAYER, targeted me so if KageLord can come up with some way to show he wasn't blocked then I wasn't targeted for an NK last night as I AM NOT DEAD.

I don't understand. Many mods allow mafia to both kill and use special actions.

Oso's vote on Sotty is really hard for me to understand. The way in which he is willing to lynch someone who could have been protected by diddin is weird. He hasn't pointed out one single scummy fact about him and he's just lynching him for the possibility? A pro-town player like sotty? tch-tch. Something smell's rotten Oso's way. The worst part is that in the same post where he votes a NON claimed he says that 3 claimed town PRs seems too much.

We have too many PRs if Sotty is not scum. This is a start to trying to prove/disprove the various claims we have out here.

Too many PRs if Sotty flips town? What? So if he is scum then that's not the same? Weird. Also, you don't prove or disprove ANY claim if you lynch Sotty. At all.

This makes no sense coming from Oso and seems to me as a manipulation from his part.

FoS: Oso

. You're not even trying.

Nope, process of elimination and borrowing some of the thinking on a cop claim with a result. If you grant (and I have at the moment) that diddin, vezo and KG are all town PRs, then the likelihood that diidin prevented a kill rather than protected a target goes way up, at least in my opinion.

I'm wanting to test diddin's claim in the same way we test a cop's claim and investigation. By lynching the target, regardless of the previous reads of the players involved.

So it just a guess that can't be backed up by anything other than diddin's claim? As Sotty says, you gain nothing from it.

Since when 3 is too many PRs?

Think about it for a second. If I and Diddin were partners, and we wanted sooty7 dead, we wouldn't no-kill and then try and get sooty lynched day 2 with a jailkeeper/lynch the target scam,we would have NKed her.

Who says scum no killed? I really don't think scum gambled on no killing with so many living players. Anyway, I don't think both my neighbours are scum, it's 99% unlikely in my book.

We have 3 claimed PRs. All of them have true claimed (at least that is premise I am going on) there was no NK. Therefore diddin claim of jailing you didn't keep you from being killed, it prevented you from killing someone.

I don't follow. Why isn't it possible, for example, for me, q21 and Tazaro (to name 3 outside the claimed PRs) to be scum and have targeted Sotty (who would've been saved by diddin)?

We know from quadz flip that this isn't a non-vanilla game so if diddin, vezo and KG are Town PRs then that is just about right for town.

I don't have to scumhunt because didiin jailed the mafia nightkiller.

Clear enough?

So you're basing the lynch of a person you never claimed to be scummy because you're outguessing the mod.

It's clear that you're not thinking in the best interest of town and gambling carelessly OR you're just scum and want to lynch Sotty and then diddin after the former flips town.

No. It doesn't sit well at all.,

This makes

no

sense. If you believe the power roles have “true claimed” why do you suddenly LEAP to the conclusion that I was blocked from making the kill? AKA, if you believe there is a town watcher, JK and ??? why does that mean I was the one doing the killing? Why can't it mean that I was just sat at home being

protected

? The power roles claiming have nothing to do with me or my role. You are really reaching bad here.

If you want to play deliberately dense here, that's fine by me.

I figure it's pretty clear where I'm going and why.

In fact, Oso. He is being much more objective than you are. You've signalled no scummy behaviour about sotty and pretend he is scum because you outguess the setup. Also, you're confortable with not scumhunting any more.

Not at insult. My baiting her with a accusation that she is being deliberately dense to draw me into further discussions to perhaps get a back pedal on my part or something she can use to give herself some wiggle room. I'm not biting that hook.

This is the first time you're calling Kagelord "she". This looks like further attempts to get a violent reaction or something. Not nice.

This is an argument made on my thinking of the way the game might be balanced. Three powers roles for town is about right for the number of power roles in the game. There was no Night Kill last night when there should have been. We have a claimed power role (diddin's) that has the power to prevent someone from doing something, he targetted Sotty7.

Yep. That's your only argument and you're

constantly ommiting the possibility of a protection

.

High probability, at least in my mind, that he did in fact prevent last night's kill. This argument stands by itself without the need of any supporting evidence in sotty's prior play.

That argument is VERY weak in fact and does not even warrant a serious vote.

Yes. He may have protected the kill last night.
We all have to remember he is Jailkeeper.
Sotty could wither be the scum who submited the kill

or the person who got saved

.

Not buying that bold part. You(vezo) were the scum target for last night even if you account for anyone's thinking you might be easily lynchable today. Both Poirot and myself mentioned yesterday that we thought you had soft claimed. But, because of your play, if I were in scum's shows I take the shot because I would figure there was a low chance of you drawing a doctor's protection.

Sotty was not the NK target last night.

You're saying that scum tried to kill Vezok? The most anti-town player at that point?

Awesome. I am fascinated.

You are an alt of The Buttonmen aren't you?

I've played with The Buttonmen and he is actually good. Vezok is light years away from him.

In my opinion, based on a bit of projection on my part and putting myself into scum's shoes for an NK choice last night, that is what I came up with and that is what my premise is based on. Trying to use the information we have in thread to make at least a semi-educated stab at who might be scum. Rather than running around trying to figure out which of the VIs to lynch first.

You're asking everyone else to trust on your gut deduction/guess about the setup and lynch a pro-town player instead of the many scummy ones running around? What do you think of Tazaro? Who are the VI's you mentioned? Why are they VI's and not scum? What happens if you're stuck with them near the endgame?

disclaimer

: There's no need to reply post by post if you feel you can do it more generally (I know I repeated myself). I just don't feel like editing this (<-- lazy) and it's getting late. Worst come to worst we can discuss at night.

[Humble Poirot]

Last Cool Facts to raise some awareness:

-Day 1 lasted 19 days 17 pages.
Day 2 lasted 5 days 11 pages.

We are playing a balanced game, eh?

Extra: The first post was my 100th post on MS. Congrats to myself.

[Humble Poirot]

Hi, quick post.

Kagelord, people need to ISO kagelord and see what they can find.

q21, should explain who he is suspicious of,after all that has happened, and why. Same thing goes for Aran.

People should be careful with outing any more roles in a rush. That goes for vezok. You are the cause kagelord, by the way.

Why the lack of theories, Oso? Since you wrote some yesterday about the no kill.

For those who werent voting tazaro... what has changed?

diddin, while you would be ignoring the possibility of a different sanity, I can see why you would think Oso is confirmed but what makes vezok town? Since when you're shocked of the amount of PRs in the game? Wasn't that Oso?

@diddin: Would you consider Aranneas a possible lyncher if Humble Poirot flips town? Given that he put a lot of focus on Tazaro and that he flips town, I feel that Aranneas was genuinely scum hunting instead of tunneling on him.

1) Are you trying to line up lynches?
2) I put focus on Tazaro so now fake arguments are not that? Aran's post is still there for you to watch it. I knew this would happen sooner or later, people would try to forget that there was no case against me and try to only remember the attack, not the content (Aran himself said he had dropped it).

I put a lot of focus on Tazaro so that makes me scummy? So that makes Aran townier and he was really scumhunting? unless I flip town and he's a lyncher?

This is some twisted logic.

Also, did you even wonder about the 6 people who DID vote Tazaro? Waggon analysis this time is not important?

oh, and good luck xvart.

HP

PS: Tazaro is not here anymore, we already missed a day and a PR. Can we discuss content and not words that vanish in thin air? Point to the things you say and explain why you say A or B.

[Humble Poirot]

@Oso: Fair enough. I'm just a bit angry that Kage is dead and that, to add insult to injury, he flipped cop. Nevertheless, we need less anti-town playstyle in order to start turning around the game.

diddin... Vezok was confirmed watcher yesterday (unless he was scum with kage, which is now impossible)... But why

confirmed

town?

about vezok's watch: Interesting. The other PR should not claim for now.

People need to explain their suspects so far. Specially q21 and Aran.

[Humble Poirot]

Damn, I get in for a quick update and find this...

I am almost certain there is not another power role in this game. I for one am in favor of vezo outing his other visit.

FoS Diddin.

I'm starting to think xvart was rigth all along.

I'm not dead. But you're saying scum visited me last night. I'm thinking you're scum RB and want to find yet another town PR.

I'll read q21's post and give a better idea of my thoughts later.

@Vezok: do NOT claim your information

.

[Humble Poirot]

@Oso:

The point is to know what people think and who they suspect and why before they start just excusing themselves with claims for a suspicion. At least, make Aran say who he suspects and why.

What I'm thinking is that I very much doubt scum targetted me with a no killing action. Therefore, whoever acted on me is probably town and I'm afraid it might be a beneficial role. That, plus myread of diddin's attitude makes me consider the fact that he is a scum RB. Suffice to say, I need to re-read some things to refresh memory and look at the whole game, not a couple of posts.

I'm not saying he doesn't need to claim (I know what happened to kage) but he definetly doesn't need to claim right now.

Also, you said before that there couldn't be that much PRs... And now there's 1 more, apparently.

--------------------------------------

@q21

Says he doesn't want to defend Tasky and then... defends Tasky. Its like he doesn't actually want to call Tasky town because that might serve to decrease his targets for a potential mislynch, but he knows he can look involved if he weighs in on the Tasky situation. What he ends up doing is getting caught between the two.

Dude... Do you even remember why you guys were going after Tasky? You were going at him because Tasky had asked some questions and that was supposed to be a mild attempt to end the rvs (which according to vezok, meant scum).

What you're doing is terrible. You're dismissing the whole context of situations and going for the A did B -> that must be a scumtell.

Oh, Good Lord! I'd forgotten how much Humble writes. I'm not going to half read him and a whole read would take more time than I have right now. That will have to wait until a later time. From memory his plays has been fairly town - but maybe he's just using lots of words to obfuscate his scumminess. Jury is still out on him for me.

I try to be as clear as possible. If you want to ask me anything about the game and want me to be brief just say so. Anyway, Humble may be smart scum... I seem to remember that... If you feel I'm deliberately obfuscating my posts somehow please point to me where and why.

@q21

: Yesterday you voted diddin for the L-1 and asked for a claim. Next you voted Tazaro and left. Why is diddin town JK and not anything else?

read through the beginning of the game, looking at the Tasky wagon as a starting point because we now know he's town. I think there's scum on there

Another non-statement. Scum, is likely to be in the waggon. Also, you were on the waggon too. What about it?

You dismiss players just because they claimed something? Their motives do not matter?

diddin - Jailkeeper claim. It could be scum RB, but I'm not feeling that. I'm against lynching the claimed JK today. (interestingly enough, my stances on Oso and diddin mean that from a game setup standpoint I don't mind a Humble lynch. Will have to reread him to see if I'm also fine with it from a play standpoint.)

Of course you don't. Based on what arguments would you lynch me?

SSBF - Only one left, so off to look at his play

Oh my... Do I sense you're pulling "Thea Aran stunt" against SSBF? Look at everything he posted and try to find something scummy about it in retrospect?

The worst thing is that many of the things you say now, you had the opportunity to say in the past and didn't.

You're right about the bolded part of hypocrisy-calling out-quadz.

Why didn't you call him on it earlier regarding the questions against xvart?

You're officially stretching this.

--------------------------------------

@SSBF: When you talk about someone flipping (when there's not even a decent waggon) and that being a consequence for someone else it makes it sound like you're A)proposing an lynch without actually voting b)proposing another lynch based on the information when the first one does flip.

Since Aranneas was focusing on other people, I highly doubt that he's a lyncher regardless of your flip.

Has he now? When? I haven't seen that. He talked in his first post (where he voted Tazaro) about some of the last posts and then poof.

Seriously, I'd like to ask people who say Aran has scumhunted or been pro-town so far to tell me who his suspects are and why.

Again, I'm not really into the lyncher guessing. I just think that, so far, he hasn't scumhunted but fabricated a case which he later took back. I'm waiting to see if there's genuine scumhunting intent at some point.

Again, you are defending Aran similarly to how Tazaro did. With no reason. You talk generalities. Why was he pro town?

I also noticed that all your evidence is from Day 1/very early Day 2. Given that I'm your top suspect, I was kind of hoping that you would provide more recent examples of why I am scummy. Your case on me is dated.

QFT.
---------------------------
We need Aran and sotty now.

HP

[Humble Poirot]

Damn it guys, I'm preparing my post and you already claimed and claimed and claimed... I'll remove the parts where I ask you to not claim till Aran comes in and haves his say... :/

Also, MC sucks.

[Humble Poirot]

Oso

, the point about the PR comment is that it's very hard to outguess a setup and it should not be our priority.

Right now, I'm going on diddin and vezo being town because neither of them have acted scummy enough to override a non-countered, Town PR claim. And there is no evidence in the thread as yet that they have lied about their role.

Yep, but diddin hasn't proven his role either.

I disagree, vezo. If you think it is another protective role then that throws diddin's claim into direct doubt.

Bingo! That's what is going through our minds.

..
I'm not dead. But you're saying scum visited me last night. I'm thinking you're scum RB and want to find yet another town PR.

You said that about diddin. Something I'd like to point out. Yesterday you jumped on me a bit because I said it was possible that diddin blocked Sotty from killing rather than protecting her. What changed that now you think diddin might be scum? If he did in fact protect her (and that is why we have no night kill for night 1) then by that reasoning alone, diddin should be getting a huge town read in your book.

If you think Sooty was saved from a kill night 1, then the only person that could have done it at this point is diddin.

Again, I'm working on the feeling that diddin is acting scummy, that scum probably wouldn't target me at night for a nokill (hence, they should be a town pr, I thought doc) which made diddin probable scum.

But, you have a point, there must be a reason for the lack of kill yesterday and, so far, it has to be diddin.

We're getting closer to the point where whoever targetted Oso must claim. But not yet, we need to know how aran feels about the game.

@Oso/Diddin:

I never actually considered 2 protective roles.

Usual methods aren't working in case you didn't notice. And I'm not advocating we use the PRs to lead us by the nose.

Quadz might've been a usual method but Tazaro was just scummy all over to avoid his lynch. He was posting 20 fluff posts per day and vote hopping like crazy.
@Oso's claim: What. The fuck. I did NOT see this coming. btw, I do not think Kage had a guilty result, I was just questioning his sanity.

I got a result last night (and the night before) so on the face of it, diddin's claim that he jailed me last night is false (please notice I didn't say he lied).

I do not understand.

From what people have said they did and saw last night, I can give town pretty solid evidence of one scum. There is also a certainty, if vezo names one particular player, that vezo himself is lying about the second visitor to Poirot last night, so we have a chance of getting two scum outed today with this. One if vezo is telling the truth (or at least not lying where it can be seen), and two if vezo names that one particular player.

Why would you claim all this instead of waiting for him to screw up, in case he was scum?

@Oso:

I seriously don't understand what the rush is. Aran still hasn't even posted. Why not wait to see what develops before going full out? Specially when you were the one holding the Ace up the sleeve.
------------------------------
q21 in his new post about SSBF seems too fabricated. Everything is wrong now. He is just diggin to find bad things and totally tunneling. One man at a time, the way of scum. He even tries to make SSBF look bad for not wanting a replacement to be replaced out near deadline when his was the biggest waggon.

@q21

Says he doesn't want to defend Tasky and then... defends Tasky. Its like he doesn't actually want to call Tasky town because that might serve to decrease his targets for a potential mislynch, but he knows he can look involved if he weighs in on the Tasky situation. What he ends up doing is getting caught between the two.

Dude... Do you even remember why you guys were going after Tasky? You were going at him because Tasky had asked some questions and that was supposed to be a mild attempt to end the rvs (which according to vezok, meant scum).

What you're doing is terrible. You're dismissing the whole context of situations and going for the A did B -> that must be a scumtell.

In context there was little to no reason to believe Tasky was scummy outside of the issues raised around those questions. Friend was defending him with respect to that, but still made sure to say he still thought Tasky might be scummy.

But of course he did... No good player is 100 % sure. It's like when I argued with Oso about his supposed case on Kagelord. I thought it was flawed but that didn't mean he couldn't be scum. It just meant that I would figth against his lynch unless I agreed with it.

You're mildly trying to paint people as scum with arguments that can be twisted either way to your convinience.

Firstly, I didn't say you were obfuscating I said you may be.

"I didn't say you kill unborn children and choke their pregnant mothers, I just said you might be"

I migth be doing anything so what's the point of unfounded accusations but to make someone look bad without actually commiting to it? Another trait of scum.

Secondly, I was not on that wagon. At no point on Day 1 did I vote for Tasky.

I misunderstood. I meant you were on the waggon the last day.

The worst thing is that many of the things you say now, you had the opportunity to say in the past and didn't.

Maybe in game time I had the opportunity, but in RL time I didn't.

I know you can be busy but when you're actually here you don't seem to pay too much attention then. You are just, in my pov, fabricating a case with anything you can find forgetting about the rest of the game.
--------------------------------------------

how about we stop relying on pr's to scumhunt and just scumhunt?

Dude, I missed you. Hope that surgery turned out right.

@xvart:

Hold your horses with connections. You know you can be wrong. Let's try to find scum before we start linking so many people together.
--------------------------------------------

xvart, why are you suddenly confidant I am scum?

I think we are going to be heading very quickly into mass claim here.

Perfect for scum unless this is PR heavy.
--------------------------------------------

Did anyone else see what Kage said before it got snipped? It might be game relevant, but I don't want to post it without the mod's consent.

Yes, I saw it but it's not up to us to consider it it. If it modified in any way how we think it would be considered cheating.
----------------------------
I did some research of Kagelord's posts since day 2 (when he already had a result)

For the moment, I'll say that I'm feeling a bit better about Oso thanks to his late D1 posts. In my book, he's moved up to just plain neutral.

And Oso, I'm sorry you feel that way about my semi-claim position right now, but please be patient. It is very likely that I will end up fully claiming either D3 or D4 if I make it that far.

All I can say is that, even though my role didn't let me know Oso's alignment, I think he is town right now and would rather see a Tazaro lynch.

[/quote]

From my point of view, all this points to a town result from him. It's too bad that we have no information about sanity.

Mod: Does sanity flip or it's a hidden attribute even after death?

------------------------
Edit after the new events.
I still don't know why you needed to claim BEFORE vezok instead of trying to get him in a lie. Also, as sotty said
we have evidence that Vezok is a watcher and lying about his results would not be very smart as scum.

I still need clarification regarding the fact that you got a result despite diddin's jailkeep.

I'm strongly considering voting diddin.

xvart doesn't need to claim for now.

[Humble Poirot]

On hindsight, I'm dazzled. There's a lot of things that might have happened and we'll have to hear a xvart claim today. There's too many angles to the situation and I need some clarifications. I'd still like Aran to come in an have his say first (checking his profile, he has been around).

I'm going to go ahead and say that these three are scum: diddin, ssbf, sotty, assuming that ara is lyncher. i am confident on any of their lynches. however, we do need to sort out the ara business, are we in lylo? i don't have the mental function now to do the projections and math.

if diddin flips scum it implicates sotty as partner and that leaves ssbf as the third by town hunting everyone else. the only wildcard is ara, which might screw my reads up.

@sotty, 748 - i messed up. i had four oruginaly but had ssbf listed twice, and couldn't figure out who the fourth was supposed to be (forgot about q21 even being in the game). i meant there were four probables (got confused by my notes) by role reveals and town hunting: you, diddin, ssbf, and q21. and humble, these aren't connections to each other but more of process of elimination (and lol at the part about me knowing i can be wrong),

I do not follow. First I thought you were going in one of your "I guess the whole team so If I'm rigth I'll be awesome" like you did with quadz + ssbf+ diddin.

I understood how if diddin flipped scum sotty

migth

be implicated but I don't understand your clarification at all.

who's probable by hunting? Who's probable by role reveal? What are the connections?

[Humble Poirot]

I'm not used to Roleblocking roles being blocked. That leads to complex action resolutions. I usually go for RB can't be blocked but what you say makes sense and might explain things. Also, I'm used to people being informed if they were blocked.

Mod? Do players get this type of info?

I confirm what Oso said. I did not visit anyone night 1.

Sotty needs to claim ASAP.

I still can't imagine how Vezok would lie as scum about his watch. It would serve no purpose. If vezok was scum, he would know who his partners were actioning on and avoid going for the same person. He would try to find a PR and have no qualms about outing them when asked. My point is that your trap wasn't very likely to succeed even if he was scum for his best bet is to play the role.

So far:

Confirmed Roles:

Cop(Kage), 2 dead townies(quadz, Tazaro).

claimed:

tracker(Oso) + watcher(Vezok) + Jailkeeper(diddin) + (...)xvart + (...)sotty.

4 unknown:

(Aran, q21, SSBF, HP).

And I'm trying not to wifom myself with the setup (sanities, scum roles, Town PRs). We never know how mods think. The closest thing we might do is research games where he has played to see what influences he might have (and that's not really helpful either). That's what I did when I was trying to investigate what he thought about neighbors although I didn't find anything relevant.

[Humble Poirot]

Well, I hereby present the award of best post in the game so far to Oso for #761

clap, clap, clap. (standing ovation)

I think that you have pretty much nailed two scum.

If that's the case, there's no way in hell you're scum. Which is great.

You had me pretty much convinced to vote sotty after that post, only one thing about a possible PR that xvart could have made me think diddin was scum, but then I looked at the whole game and decided it wasn't likely based on xvart's lack of conviction in one of his cases.

@diddin: At this point, I feel you're 99.99% town which will be confirmed when sotty flips scum RB. Instead of thinking that kage brings credibility to Oso, I prefer to think that his claim when he was not pressured (which contributed to finding the diddin or sotty issue) earns him almost infinite town points.

to be honest, about Vezok's watch over me, I kind of dismised it due to the fact that I was afraid I would die (thinking some of the PRs might be scum) and wasn't putting myself in a watcher's feet. Added to that, I've come to expect bizarre things from vezok.
-----------------------------
Now comes a poor and incomplete claim of what I believe to be a resigned player.

Blocking diddin and not trying to destroy him after the no kill was weird. Specially after he claimed Jailkeeper.

Okay this is what I was looking for, you seem to trust him, if only a little bit so I am willing to swallow that. With his claim and no counter, it makes the most sense to me that he protected me from a kill and so is probably telling the truth.

This makes no sense at all in context. He unvoted because Oso trusted diddin after the claim?

If sotty believed diddin was town, then there had to be YET ANOTHER cause for no kill day 1, which probably had to be a doc, but doc + JK + RB makes little to no sense.

I'm going to be doing an in-depth read of sotty's ISO later to check what connections does he have but, overall, a vezok connection makes sense in the way he tries to distance himself but do not attack him too much.
-----------------------------
Xvart's find about him flipping town and that meaning nothing about diddin is great.

No it wouldn't. Just because I am a town roleblocker doesn't mean diddin couldn't be a town JK. Keep in mind this was on day one. Things have progressed well since then, I think diddin has to be a scum JK.

It was not on day 1, it was on day 2. Still doesn't make sense, as I explained, after the no kill of night 1.

I am also someone that likes to hide my role when I have one. I will only claim if needed, like just now. I don't breadcrumb. The only exception to the rule is the cop guilty/innocent crumbs.

No one asked for a crumb. But it's funny how you're trying to cover your tracks this way.

That's out guessing the mod though isn't it?

Looking at this set up, I can already see that this mod isn't one you can predict.

Oh, so what good would counter claims be? What if 3 people claimed doc? lame.

Overall, don't feel bad, you had me totally fooled. diddin and Oso specially, deserve the merit for nailing you.
-------------------------

I'm assuming that you're talking about if he has talked about other people. Am I reading you right?.

Yes, I'm talking about that. Those were not cases, just commenting on one or two things that had happened involving vezok(scummy and anti-town), tazaro(anti-town at that point), diddin(somewhat scummy at that point). You can think that someone is town for the first post where they talk about recent events without much else, specially when there's no development whatsoever.

Why vote the possible scum watcher and not the most likely scum RB? We can tie the hands of the watcher but we can't do the same with the RB.
-------------------------

Do you know why I didn't watch the claimed PRs?
Because I thought the doctor will go after them.

which doctor?

I was sure KG was going to be doc protected.

by whom? Jailkeeper diddin?

Also why did xvart visited humble ?

How can he explain without claiming? Do you want him to?
-------------------------

Vote Sotty7

.

As for the probable third member (Based on the amount of PRs). I was in between q21 and Aran. Xvart has been a town read all along and, as I said, I don't think scum would go at me for a no killing action (Specially both scum). I know what Oso said about setting up a claim is a possibility though. SSBF is also a town read but I'm worried about the fact that he would not react to the whole diddin-sotty-both-blocking-roles and instead go for Vezok. q21 has lurked and stayed under the radar, but his late attack on SSBF has a concerning air of fabrication. Aran has also fabricated a terrible case against me and then dissapeared. Both need inquiry. Both need to be active.

As for the 3 neighbors being town (which now I'm certain), I'm really surprised. Of course, you don't know my alignment but it's good enough for me to use the night chat confortably (which I ran away from in the past)

I'm still debating if xvart should claim or not. Now that I think he is not a role that would hurt town, if claimed, I believe that whatever information his role can provide is better than dying. Specially when there's so many town targets.

My idea is to force Vezok to watch Oso tonight. If he doesn't, he gets lynched. Oso and diddin can do whatever they like.
--------------------------

Mod: We need a votecount and a prod on Aranneas.

Regards,
A happy Humble Poirot.

[Humble Poirot]

I forgot about something.

If diddin blocked sotty night 1 then sotty is lying about blocking diddin because he himself had to be blocked for a no kill to happen.

I mean...

Night 2 -> Diddin blocks Oso but Oso gets to act because diddin was blocked by sotty.
Night 1 -> diddin blocks Sotty. no kill. If sotty had blocked diddin, then there should've been a kill.

That leads to the conclusion that sotty blocked someone else night 1.

I don't know if we can do something with it but, it's there.

Also, Sotty, I'm expecting you to answer who stopped the nightkill on night 1.

[Humble Poirot]

I'll

unvote

to prevent foul play but consider me voting sotty. I'm editing a post.

[Humble Poirot]

Heh, I'm here. I was interrupted.

I'm not the mod, I have no idea who blocked the kill. To speculate, I think it was me. diddin tried to kill me and when it failed claimed scum JK because he was being run up.

And you didn't think about any of this before?

Your reaction to diddin's claim was too mild knowing you had blocked him and that there hadn't been a kill.

Just skimming I noticed the claim and I can't confirm anything diddin said. Gonna read what I missed while I think over this claim. Gut says "JK neighbor" isn't very normal.

From your alleged point of view, you knew you couldn't have been protected by diddin but you never tried to discourage that theory. You
even proposed it as an alternative when discussing with Oso.

I have seen mafia watcher a few times before but I wouldn't class it as common role. Jail keeper on the other hand is becoming more a more
common these days, at least in my experience. A lot has happened and I think I will need to re-read a few times to process it all a figure out
where my vote should go.

Then, your denial of any relation between your role and diddin's. I could understand you saying this with any other role, because Oso's theory focused on the fact that you might've been blocked, but knowing you were a roleblocker... This was strange.

My suspects right now are diddin, q21, Aranneas. I am struggling to believe all the power roles claimed are town, diddin looks even scummier to me if whoever vezo saw last night is actually a doc because that would be another plausible reason for why there was a no kill on night one.

Weird how you never considered your own block as a possibility for the no kill.

@Sotty: Why are you voting diddin now? What has changed?

You had me pretty much convinced to vote sotty after that post, only one thing about a possible PR that xvart could have made me think diddin was scum, but then I looked at the whole game and decided it wasn't likely based on xvart's lack of conviction in one of his cases.

Can you explain this more? Which case of mine are you referring to?

I was kinda vague to give avoid giving you clues as to what to claim if you were, in fact, scum. What I suspected when I read you had visited me was that you were a doctor (see my self-centered attitude? That's why I didn't doubt Vezok either, I'm a shame to my name). If you were a doctor, that meant diddin was scum RB and that you had been going at him during a big part of this game for that reason. Later, I did some more research and came across the fact that you had unvoted diddin, which made no sense if you had that role.

Although his claim is more believable; I am not on the diddin is 100% town train yet. I still think it is possible that diddin could be scum that claimed sotty's rb targets when he was put under pressure.

You're suggesting diddin and sotty are scum together? What about the no kill?

I don't think it is necessary for me to claim right now, and i think if i die any information I have will be obvious.

mmm... Obvious? Without knowing who you visited night 1? As long as we're on the subject, why didn't you volunteer that information? I'm having a hard time trying to figure out your role (based on your actions). Granted, I'm trying to outguess alignments and roles of many players in a poor attempt to form a balanced setup but I still wonder.

Right now, I lean towards a claim today, which will give us more planning width and ensure we know your information but I'll wait to see what Oso has to say about it.
PREV EDIT:

@Oso? What say you?

@SSBF: I'm aware you had a scum read on vezok and a town read on Sotty. I thought along the same lines. The difference is that I see sotty must be scum due to Oso's claim in a very direct way. Vezok being scum is not as straightforward.

1. Oso uncovered Sotty -> Sotty claims RB who blocked diddin x2 -> Sotty's actions day 2 do not reflect what he claims to have done in any way. -> Sotty is probably lying.
   
   
2. That deduction plus the minor guess that roleblocker and jailkeeper in the same alignment is unlikely makes it almost foolproof.
   
   
3. Oso's townness is laid out strongly after his early claim where he went all out. It's very hard to find a scum motivation for it.
   
   
4. Vezok, on the other hand, has been scummy all game but was excused by his claim. His scummyness has not changed and it would be hard to decide if he might not be as awful as town but the most noteworthy addition IMHO is that the watcher+tracker+cop+JK combo seems extremely unlikely and the rest of the players have to be town.
   
   
5. Not only the evidence surely condmens Sotty but his role is much more prejudicial to town and can't be controled like Vezok's watch can.

About Vezok's watch. I didn't find the anomaly in vezok's behaviour when he claimed he watched me. Did you?

As you see, I don't deal with absolutes. This is, after all, a guessing game at some point, but I'm basing myself in motives and logic.

2- I'm not saying you shouldn't scumhunt. I'm the first one to suggest we hunt everywhere. What does it matter if Oso was the one that got the info and that we didn't think Sotty was scummy before? Right now, we have the information and it tells us that sotty is scum in all likelyhood.

[Humble Poirot]

Quick post because I need to get some sleep.

@diddin:

Now hold on just a second. You claim to be town jailkeeper and say xvart you think xvart is town doctor? How come?

@SSBF, @Vezok

; You think xvart is a doctor too? So what is diddin? There's two protective roles?

@SSBF:

How is Doctor POE, have you read the wiki? There's lots of roles that could appear in a normal game out there.

I'm ok with the sotty lynch as soon as possible.

If Sotty flips scum and vezo flips town, I'll be heavily suspicious of SSBF.

Explaining why in this game usually helps

@q21:

Why are you voting sotty? You are giving no explanation whatsoever.

[Humble Poirot]

This game looks like a bad soap opera. Next thing we know Tazaro comes back from the dead to haunt us and Oso has an evil twin brother with psychic powers.

Some things surprise me, some don't but I need to take several steps back and look at everything.

Something intrigues me though. If diddin and sotty are scum together... Then who did they block? Did they block a partner for wifom? (that sounds absurd but hey, I'm out of ideas).

We must remember we don't know the sanity of the cop when we try to think what's balanced.

the reluctance of sotty and diddin to go against each other makes sense.

the following quote comes to mind

Good point. One half-smart alternative I can find is that you were in a scumteam with sotty and nokilled to set the claim up but I think it might be a bit farfetched. Another that looks more likely is that you wanted to out a real doctor.

What I forgot to add, there, was the possibility of another source for the lack of kill, but, early in the game, I had no interest in outing a doctor.

About Vezok's watch. I didn't find the anomaly in vezok's behaviour when he claimed he watched me. Did you?

To be honest, I did. Sure you're probably a Neighbor, but unlike Oso or diddin, you have no other claimed actions, if Oso/diddin is town, scums would be more likely to go after those two since they have actions that can provide a further threat to the scums during the Night.

SSBF
this post is the first after vezok's claim he watched me. At the time, you didn't find his watch scummy. You make no mention of this issue until after Oso had raised it but you say you did see it at the time?

@SSBF, @Vezok; You think xvart is a doctor too? So what is diddin? There's two protective roles?

I believe others have said this before, but anything can happen in this set-up. From the claimed roles, it looks like we are in a swingy set-up with lots of power roles. From this and xvart's overall town play, I wouldn't be surprised if xvart himself was the doctor like he claims to be.

Forgive me, but this sounds like poor reasoning. What would happen if there were 3 doc claims? Anything can happen too? With your apparent philosophy, counter claims would be totally useless for town.

And if xvart is the doctor, diddin being the town jailkeeper would rely on sotty7's flip even more. If sotty7 is town, then diddin is likely a scum jailkeeper. If sotty7 is scum, then diddin is probably the town jailkeeper. In the former case, diddin should be lynched tomorrow. If the latter, then let him live..

So they can't be scum together? Did you read xvart's claim?

There's plenty more roles than vig and mason but I understand if you think this are the likely roles in a mini normal.

by the way, curious thing I found while looking for vezok's day 3 watch claim. Look at his first role claim:

I am a

town

watcher. You know what this role does

I do not intend this to be of any value during the game but if, when the game ends, his alignment is mafia, it will be a funny example of a freudian slip. Have you guys seen many town players claim "I'm town [Role]"?

Humble Poirot

PS: The season finale teaser trailer shows what appears to be Oso + xvart + Poirot scumteam laughing on top of a pile of dead bodies. XD

[Humble Poirot]

I've been busy but checking from my cell phone saw nothing incredibly urgent.

Aran needs to replaced, apparently. Which sucks.

I'll post tomorrow.

[Humble Poirot]

Insanely busy day, sorry.

I wanted to say more things about stuff but it'll have to wait.

This is what I think should be the plan for tonight in case I can't make it before the lynch.
if Sotty flips roleblocker and diddin is scum. He is lying about being a jailkeeper so he can't really block.
Therefore, diddin should protect/block Oso.
xvart should protect Oso regardless.
Vezok watches xvart.
Oso should track diddin. If he receives a result. diddin is lying.

If you come by a better plan, by all means tell me. I think this is the best one to avoid the deaths of Oso and xvart (we discover if vezok is scum) while finding out if diddin is lying whatever scum does.

Later.

HP

[Humble Poirot]

Nice to see you Charter. I'm eager to get your impressions as you go (and, if possible, the explanations attached to them).

Also, I'm shocked. I pretty much thought it was sotty + diddin + vezok. Hence, my plan to trap both of them. Sotty's comment's about a crippling setup made me think we had it in the bag.

Right now... I'm thinking xvart has to be scum due to the 2 protective roles issue. Which makes me wonder about plenty of things (considering he has been a town read from day 1). I feel weird that Oso seemed so sure about diddin's alignment (and why did he talk so much at night when we were unconfirmed?) but his claim mid-game when it wouldn't be necessary as scum still puts him in a town place. Something else I doubted was that all neighbours would be town but I can't imagine him bussing sotty in such a way.

I'll be honest. To me:
JK or doc (one had to be scum)
Watcher or Tracker (one had to be scum)

That meant diddin + vezok (plus added scummyness from both)

but now I'm starting to second guess myself (mainly about xvart).

considering both Oso and xvart were protected in different ways, why would scum go after diddin and not vezok(if town)? I'm trying to determine what would different combinations do.
EDIT: Actually, no. Diddin was the best kill and I didn't anticipate it because I thought he was scum and would kill xvart and be bussed by vezok today. Diddin was going to be pretty much cleared and role confirmed when he blocked/docced Oso. Xvart scum would be exposed anyway.

One thing we DO know now is that sotty blocked diddin n2 because Oso could still track last night. We still don't know who got blocked by sotty n1.

I guess I'll just have to read back and consider all the new information.

SSBF, q21, thoughts?

HP

PS: I also have a very interesting theory in my pocket that will have to wait until everyone gives their thoughts about the events so far.

[Humble Poirot]

Vote xvart

Maybe there's a jailkeeper

and

a doctor... but probably not.

That's all? Good, consistent with your lurky play. Noted. You're trying to give town no information at all with your posts, right?

I need to check your voting record but I think you've been silently in every lynch waggon without much explanations.

Another thing I find funny is how you never mentioned protection roles before.

On other news, is SSBF scum to you? Connections with Sotty? Xvart?

@Oso: When I say diddin block I mean he jailkept but, knowing sotty was scum, I don't need to assume he was protected. I'm aware Jailkeep is block+doc.

As for sotty and the possibility that he wouldn't block anyone night 0. It seems unlikely. Even more than no killing. If I was going to go for a nokill gambit, I would block someone and pretend they were scum.

I take it your reads are more or less the same as yesterday?

@xvart: You knew the plan was for you to get watched by vezok and that Oso would be jailkept by the now confirmed diddin. What information were you expecting? What's that thought you were witholding?

What do you make of the setup?

@Vezok, who do you think is scum right now?

One thing we should investigate is the whole claiming of day 2 with diddin and vezok's waggons.

I also realized that xvart + vezok scumteam does not make sense in light of Vezok's claim that Kage and xvart watched me n2. Why would he out his partner in such a way and force him to claim a PR?

[Humble Poirot]

xvart's #837

I was expecting diddin to not go anywhere, since I didn't think there was a chance in hell that he was actually a Jailkeeper. The fact that the scum eliminated him and confirmed him as Jailkeeper is extremely perplexing.

I was asking about the fact that you were waiting on Vezok to give his information out TODAY. If vezok had to watch you, according to the plan, did you really think he would say anything but "no one visited xvart"?

The 2nd paragraph makes practically no sense. It's really bizarre (and scummy) coming from you.

Diddin was not a likely lynch because he would be confirmed by Oso. He was town (scum knew that) so killing him was a great choice. If he lived, you'd be facing the same predicament of being the non-confirmed claimed protective role.

Added to that, once diddin was confirmed, Vezok would have to watch him every night, erasing the possibility of killing him (or trading one scum player in the process).

The fact that you *seemingly* forgot you agreed with my plan is disturbing.

The other thing I can't quite wrap my head around is the N1 actions by Sotty and diddin. They both claimed to have blocked each other, and I don't have any reason to think they didn't;

You have no reason to dis-believe confirmed scum?

diddin is town so he was telling the truth.
diddin: n1 sotty, n2 Oso (Oso could track), n3 Oso (Oso couldn't track)
Sotty: n1 diddin (unknown), n2 diddin (likely due to Oso being able to track sotty)

Sotty's n1 action can only be true if xvart is town because there was a nokill that night.

@q21: Ok. Let's assume xvart flips scum. Any ideas for a third partner? Now let's assume he is town. Same thing.

@Charter: Your posts might be funny and brief but they're pretty useless if you expect people to do all the research for you by browsing throughout the game to find what the heck are you talking about when you say

#Number: Oh God! scummy!
#Number: What the hell
#Number: Yeah, definetly scum.
#Number: Lame, didn't read.
#Number: Doesn't make sense.

If you explained why you said any of those things and offered a quote or a link things would be easier. So far, I don't know what you think or what you plan to do.

The whole charade of reading without apparently knowing about the flips looks fake to me. The first page contains all the flips and I don't believe you missed that. The link in your role pm should link to page 1 and you're talking as if you were guessing who was which role.

My posts may be long because I quote the information I'm referring to.

SSBF, Charter, we're the only ones who still haven't claimed. We should do it to make sure we're not missing anything.

I am a Town Neighbour (no added abilities) written with U.

[Humble Poirot]

Charter more like scum now.
I can see jay saying he got a cop inspect on HP and try to lynch him.
We would then lynch him the other day.

Huh? Rephrase in a way that people can understand what you mean, please. Jay's claim that I was 100 % scum came on day 1 so there was NO possibility of inspection even if he was a cop.

Also, how would he benefit from that move if he was scum?

The thing is the scum tried to kill HP. We know that based on xvart claim.

No, we don't. diddin blocked sotty n1. If sotty made the kill that's a perfectly possible explanation.

Or they didn't NK but that is a 1% chance or somehting.

Is it?

So jay may be a lyncher on the mafia side to balance some things?

Bullcrap. Lyncher on the mafia side? Did you even research the role?

Vezok is, as always, an awesome lynch.

[Humble Poirot]

@Oso: from 849 I don't understand how it Vezok's case is weakened and xvart's strenghtened. Vezok has never been blocked ro killed despite

BEING THE ONLY ONE WHO SOFTCLAIMED DAY 1

and claimed day 2. Watcher is a powerful role and if you add Watcher + Jailkeeper that's really, really powerful. Doc + JK at least can't protect each other because JK would block doc.

@Oso: Killing diddin makes sense for anyone as scum. He would be confirmed by you. If you were scum it would be a great move. It wouldn't confirm you at all. Anyway, I don't think you're scum, at all, but it's a piece of logic I don't agree with.
As for sanity, yes, I don't think that Kage was sane given there's at least one watcher or tracker or doc + JK + Cop.

No, because the only reason I can see Sotty committing the kill and choosing not to Roleblock is if both of his partners were under suspicion and thought they were likely to be tracked.

Who said it has to be one or the other? Many mods allow kill + special ability from the same person.

The question is still hard... Would xvart claim doc to get diddin the Jailkeeper out of the game?

but it might be worth asking Charter to claim if he is a lyncher, claim his target, then that would help us narrow down the pool because he and his target would then be confirmed as non scum. If we lynch scum tonight, our trade off with Charter, if the numbers allow it, would be lynching his target, then lynching the final scum.

That's not how it works. Lyncher won't claim he is such thing. I hope it were that easy. See my explanation at the end of how lyncher benefits from a mislynch today.

Also, who's scum, xvart? You've only talked about yourself thus far.

@q21: Ok. Let's assume xvart flips scum. Any ideas for a third partner? Now let's assume he is town. Same thing.

xvart flips scum the other scum is either vezok or SSBF
xvart flips town the scums are you and vezok/SSBF

Each day scummier, my friend. You still want to give no info?

Why? Give REASONS for your statements. Why did Vezok claim xvart actioned on me if he was his partner? Why is SSBF scum?
If you think SSBF is scum in almost every situation, why not vote him and manipulate watcher, doc and trackers actions?
How am I scum if xvart flips town? How am I scum with SSBf or vezok(And sotty)?

I have no problem claiming if it's just me and one other person that haven't claimed. Where did this lyncher business come from? Who started that and around where?

You don't look like you pay attention.

It started with Jay but I pretty much ignored it. But then, Aran came out totally tunneling on me ignoring everything else. Now, you came saying that friend (me) was scum with just 2 pages read and keep throwing knives my direction.

I'm not usually a fan of lyncher speculation (and I've ignored it in earlier games) but this seems just too much.

I'm going to hold off from claiming until I've read the whole thread, however. Should be tonight. Doesn't matter to me who goes first.

This is absurd. Why would you need time to claim unless you wanted to know if fakeclaiming could be helpful?

Alright, about to pick back up. I need to find out who brought up lyncher.

No lynching is absolutely not, under any circumstances, an option, whatsoever.

Says the suspected lyncher.

However, whoever said that Vezo's targeting of Poirot is suspect is totally correct. There is a claimed cop, and he watches some unknown claim? Yeah right.

Kagelord NEVER claimed cop.

Wait, now I see Humble was thinking this as well? Hmmm, I'll have to go recheck, I might be biased since I knew Dddin was town when I was reading it.

Once Oso claimed and we knew that diddin sotty claimed to block each other night 1. It made diddin look very town because no sotty hadn't come after him. No one had claimed doc so that meant no other PR could've stopped that kill. Based on xvart's continued attack on diddin, I suspected that xvart could be a doc but then he unvoted. He finally claimed and explained this situation. Which made sense.

That made me believe Diddin had fakeclaimed JK (knowing who Sotty Rb-ed) to save himself and, on doing so, had established a connection that had destroyed the scumteam (Sotty complained the setup was crippling)

Charter. You're not paying attention. At all. Stop skimming and read. Based on VEzok + diddin + sotty scumteam and to protect xvart+Oso I devised a plan which most people agreed on.

As for my claim, I'm just a vanilla townie. The reason I was so interested in hearing who brought it up, is it's an extremely uncommon thing for town to think of in a game. Also, just to throw you all for a curve, here's a game where the lynchee was scum.

Now that you've heard who brought it up... what gives? Also,

why the hell would you bring a game where lynchee is scum if you're not the lyncher (trying to convince the other players to vote his target)?

You haven't said who do you think is scum and why. You have ignored my posts so far. Bring it on, but I advice you to read my response to Aranneas before you come up with a bunch of lies.

First, please someone unvote me. If both of you are town then scum could come in and semi-quick lynch me under the pretext of me being scum because diddin flipped JK. If you want to revote me later, fine; but just ease off right now.

I Agree with XVART

I don't expect this from scummy q21 but I do from Oso.

At this point. There's much evidence pointing towards Vezok scum and I'm struggling to understand if xvart can be scum with him or not at all. Then there's xvart's doc against jailkeeper and his last post which sounds really off. My only problem consists on Charter who, with every post, comes stronger as a probable lyncher.

I mean, why on earth would someone say that lynchee can be scum? Instead of, there's no lyncher? Why? Because he IS, in fact, a lyncher and he wants to be able to lynch me either way.

Assuming 2 remaining scum we have the following problem:
If we mislynch today scum doesn't kill charter and tomorrow (LYLO) they team up and lynch me for the win.

So, I think that, unless we're totally certain of who to lynch, which seems difficult. We lynch Charter and see what happens tomorrow.

As a fail safe we can use a similar protection system as we did yesterday:
Vezok watches xvart.
xvart protects Oso.
Oso tracks whoever he wants.

That only leaves vezok exposed and, after his play this game, his death would be a blessing.

Tl,Dr:

*Oso is town in my book.
*Vezok or xvart are strong lynch candidates but it's harder than it looks.
* Vezok: scummy all game + never blocked by scum (nor shot?) + controversial watches (not so much to me) + watcher/JK?
* Xvart lately logic is weird + 2 town protective roles?
* q21 is lurking hard not explaining anything. (remember when sotty voted q21 out of the blue for lurking? Does this mean anything?)
* Charter is just saying just throwing words out there without explanations either and intent on proving lyncher is impossible (but slowly coming my way?). He hasn't made clear who he would vote and why because his supposedly vary according to the page he was in.
* If there's lyncher + 2 scum (alive) and we mislynch, we're screwed.
*q21 needs to give reasons for what he says.
*So does Charter and he, vezok, xvart and SSBF need to explain who would they lynch.

[Humble Poirot]

Charter: I am in the process of taking a chill pill seeing I'm not getting much out of the people I'd like to.

I'll just read and reread whenever I have the time and think what scenario is more plausible.

Later.

[Humble Poirot]

SSBF, from Vezok's POV, it does make sense to vote him but what seems strange is that he doesn't emphasize so much in the fact that he is a watcher and Oso is a tracker but claims Oso is his biggest scumread.

[Humble Poirot]

Hey! Look!


Who want's some?

It's my scumday!

Mod: A votecount would be awesome.

[Humble Poirot]

Good, It was a test to see if you were paying attention... heh...

And you are, but you don't feel the need to answer Charter's vote on you...

I'm wondering if I should give you an incentive.

[Humble Poirot]

charter (this player slot has basically been ignored all game; why would he be trying to get involved if he was scum and could easily coast to end game?)

uhh.... because if he didn't it would be extremely weird considering he has quite a meta to look at?

Thoughts?

what's more unbalanced? JK + Doc or JK + Watcher. The interesting thing about JK is that he prevents the other role from being useful so as to avoid Town PR locks.

But we have to add the fact that there's 3 unconfirmed claims right now:
Doc, Tracker, watcher.

Tracker doesn't seem as powerful as watcher but neither it is for scum.

I'm still pretty positive Cop was not sane.

Vezok has always wanted to claim. Never fearing the likely night kill a town power role would suffer.

Deliberately anti-town and confusing playstyle. Never talking about people like quadz and then, when lynched, calling them obvscum (so that we think he is totally wrong?).

One of vezok and xvart is scum. That's for sure. Doc + Watcher is

ALL POWERFUL.

Vote Vezok

, I invite the bold to read his ISO.

He has done every little thing that scum would do and gotten away with it because of a claim he was eager to claim (because he IS mafia watcher).

It's so damn funny that no one is voting him, right now. Kage was right, we should've lynched him day 1.

@Charter: Your big post calls Oso town, Xvart town... and when having to choose between SSBF,q21 and vezok completely ignores the fact of the huge amount of power roles. I'm not saying q21 or SSBF are not possible scum candidates but, come on, your post pretends the setup is

Cop+JK

+Doc+Tracker+Watcher vs

Roleblocker

+ ? (+?)

Putting the claim jigsaw puzzle together, Vezo's targets are plausible. In addition, if you look at when Vezo claimed, Sotty immediately wants to see who targeted Oso at night, and then you see who died that night? The same person, Kagelord. It doesn't look to me like Sotty knew who Vezo targeted.

Sotty just asked him to claim the abilities because it was the pro-town thing to do. Vezok had no reasons to hide information and Sotty had been permanently bussing vezok, knowing he was the scummiest player.

[Humble Poirot]

Seriously... You guys... Seriously...

Vezok = Scum. It's absurd at this point. Xvart may or may not be scum (I'm still wondering why vezok would out him if they were a team) but Vezok is the sure deal.

Vezok is not going to die, ever. Because he is scum.

xvart is L-1.
Charter is voting q21 and SSBF is not voting.

[Humble Poirot]

Posting from cell from a dull class.

Charter, it's not that I don't believe q21 can be scum but Vezok's scummyness has been far too obvious and he keeps changing all the time to whatever tactic suits him.

Just look at his preemptive excuse not to de blamed after a mislynch.

At this point, we need SSBF and you to be sharp.

Once again, Oso is in the wrong waggon and he is followed by opportunistic sheep (q21 and vezok). This is a kagelord waggon deja vu.

opposed to that. Xvart and myself are trying to bring proof to our cases. Charter is now doing the same.

Town wants to get scum. Genuinely. Town tries. I see 2 players who aren't.

See ya.

HP

[Humble Poirot]

Oso is right. I was the one to to talk about sanities and still do.

But... I don't agree with either of you that sanity is something that town wouldn't consider.

In order to make me lynchable and to have my thoughts discounted, scum have to break the impression in the thread that KG got an innocent on me.

The thing is... It's not necessary to pay much attention to KG's inspection but to your playstyle so far. That has been way more proving of your alignment than anything else (Considering your relation with sotty).

@HP. Yes, it does look a lot like KG's wagon except if you are going to accuse anyone of sheeping, then I'd have to be a sheep. q21 was the first to place a xvart vote. I was second.

Yep, but q21's vote is just Hello, vote, goodbye, I don't care what you think. He let's you do the convincing.

Plus, I recall no one believing my thoughts on Sotty7 either at first. I recall some of the arguments being made that went sort of along the lines of "How can you think one of the least scummiest(or outright town) players so far could be scum?" or "So, we are just supposed to follow your gut because you are right?"

Allow me to remember you that the case on Sotty made no sense if you just predicted Jailkeeper had blocked him. Once you got the information from your track, new things had to be considered. Diddin could've either protected or blocked Sotty but Sotty (claiming RB) could've only blocked diddin. Considering there was no nightkill and that he had blocked diddin it made no sense from his POV and it was clear that he wasn't trying to get diddin. On the other hand, xvart always gave the impression of not believing diddin and trying to get him.

Look at xvart and look at vezok and tell me who's really town-motivated and who isn't.

And I promise you this... If (And I don't believe there's a chance of this) vezok doesn't flip scum I'm going to be the first one to vote xvart (and q21 can come and say I'm trying to remove every

claimed

role from the game yara, yara) but right now, I'm also sticking with it.

Also, good thing is, Oso won't die tomorrow if xvart is alive.

Vezok is totally going to kill Oso and blame someone else.

Gotta get some sleep, g'night.

HP

PS: I've got sigs and avatars disabled but I hope SSBF will come soon and tell us where he stands.

[Humble Poirot]

I'm pleased by the current turn of events. I've been doing too much brief cell checking and not enough calm and joyful investigating.

SSBF bringing up 877 is spot on.

How vezok views somersaulted within a 2 post range makes me dizzy.

One important thing we might have to remember if/when vezok flips scum is how he mentioned ninja's and godfathers so much.

It is obvious that you are not getting

lunched

to day xvart

Gasp

...

Dude, you we're going to

eat

him? You should've told me sooner. I'd like to taste fried xvart!

[Humble Poirot]

From Cell:
I'd like to hear people's suspicions before Oso reveals his target.

xvart, q21, SSBF.

I'll post tomorrow from a decent keyboard.

[Humble Poirot]

Why do you think?

[Humble Poirot]

I'm glad someone beside me has been thinking about options. As xvart says, if tracker got scum that's that. He got them. Period. There's no use helping scum know who to attack based on who was targeted by Oso if he didn't.

Don't worry, I've written what I think about possible tracks, kills, etc.

Oso somehow knows what I've been thinking as I've posted a bit on our chat but I don't want to let q21 lurk while I carry the speaking torch.

I want HIS opinions specifically. It would be cool to have SSBF's opinions whenever he can too.

Also, R.I.P. for poor Charter. Thanks for replacing in, man! Sorry for thinking you might be a lyncher!

@xvart: Lyncher pseudo clearing me? (puzzled look on my face). I thought scum was more likely to use a lyncher to their benefit. I think the only one who mentioned I was town-ish because of charter-lyncher was vezok (and look at his flip)

Dude... Self protection of doctors is extremely unlikely. Why would you not self-protect always if you're sure of your alingment? I don't think that's a valid consideration.

[Humble Poirot]

Cheers, town fellas! Phobias are no more.

I'll come in a bit and post some comments but I have some stuff to do first.

In the meantime, here's the Neighbor QT:
http://www.quicktopic.com/44/H/bh5Wh5nBKNwGy

You'll notice I didn't make an excessive use of it.

Someone should pm all the players that participated at one point or another to see what they think. I always find that fun.

[Humble Poirot]

Good game everyone, I'm surprised SSBF risked being tracked and specially because the risk he took didn't involve killing xvart.
In my Humble Poirot opinon (IMHPO) he should've:
a) No killed and tried to get q21 or xvart lynched.
b) Risked it and shot xvart in hopes that charter would lead to a lynch against q21. Shoot Oso at night and throw me and Charter against each other in a 3p lylo.

I'd like everyone to be aware of the fact that we were extremely close to losing the game when xvart was at L-1 with q21, Oso and Vezok voting for him. If SSBF had been around long enough to make up a decent excuse to hammer xvart they would've killed Oso at night, bussed each other when Vezok failed to find OSo's killer (or found an invented one) and SSBF might've just pulled it in a 3p lylo with Charter and q21.

Props on q21 and xvart for setting on SSBF for some periods of the game (whom I thought of as weird in the beginning but later kept him as a probtown read). q21's mistake was being pretty lurky and outright unhelpful at some points. He gave me the impression that he did not really care and was setting up lynches.

As for the men of the match, I think it belongs to both Oso and xvart. Oso, despite having several differences with me, was never stubborn about his views and explored many possibilities. He performed excellent tracks that decided the game to our favour and was sufficiently pro-town so that no one complained when the plans were laid out to protect him. Xvart saved me night 1, if I'm not mistaken. That gave us one extra lynch because, if we ever got to 8 people after Tazaro's lynch, we would've had to no lynch just to be safe and that would probably mean an easy game for scum to control in 4 vs 3 lylo.

I think that, even the setup was pretty much biased towards town, the biggest failure came from having a powerful role like watcher finally working for the town. Vezok didn't care about being scummy because he had a sweet role to protect himself. But that, as we know, didn't last long enough.

Sotty kept a pro-town face while keeping himself out of the spotlight. He is an admirable player and should be handled with great care. SSBF's play was weird but somewhat effective. Still, he made some errors of judgement near the end that might be excused by the fact that he seemed to be pretty busy.

Regardless of scum's generally good play and a hard setup, town also had to face it's hardships. Mainly, what I've come to call, the Tazaro Incident. One wasted day with 150+ posts of pure fluff, horrific, unreasoned reads and what looked to me like borderline trolling. His defense of Vezok as a VI still gives me shivers.

Apart from that and some disgusts when q21 decided to ignore me and call out scum without much reasons this game was great and I had a lot of fun.

I felt special empathy with xvart (Another PR heavy game in the bag, eh?) and Kagelord. High five guys.

My reads this game were not very good. I was pretty thrown off when quadz didn't flip scum. At least, I was the

spirit of the moderated view

in this game.

SSBF, sotty, vezok! I want to read that quicktopic!!

I also want to hear from sotty's plan to avoid his lynch (which he talked about on twilight)

@xvart, Oso: I was also paranoid during brief periods of time thinking about the possibility of 4 scum but, knowing how the game had gone before sotty's lynch, it didn't make much sense. What I did suspect that could be seem as balanced was 3 scum + lyncher.

Let's face it, the whole jay + aranneas 2nd post + Charter's 1st post was the weirdest thing I have experienced. I don't usually speculate about that kind of things but 3 different players seemed to much.

The unconfirmed mason group was interesting but having 2 power roles there made it a bit weird.

The mechanic that tnm used of having all three of the neighbors be town could have helped scum if 2 of the 3 had of been NKed early or lynched/Nked early. The third neighbor still alive might have been auto-scummed by the rest of the town players esp. if it had been HP who remained alive. 2 Town PRs and a VT? How many people would have bought that one

No way, I was completely innocent. In fact, I don't remember having to bear a vote against me all game. I mean, could you ever lynch me? Look at me!

Thanks totallynotmafia for modding.

I'm eager to hear how you saw the game from your perspective. If it takes time to write a decent review/analysis, It's not a problem. I just want it to be in-depth

Thanks diddin, I'm still unsure about the results of your actions but you managed to block the right person and get on Oso's good side (that counted for something).

Thanks again, Charter, for taking the time to replace into the game despite my long posts.

See you later with more cool facts and opinions of this game.

HP

PREVIEW EDIT: ooooohhhhhh... mafia QT... I'm going to enjoy this...

[Humble Poirot]

... scum pre-game talk was horrible XD

Humble Poirot sounds like a good kill. I expressed some suspicion on Friend, but I really did like Humble Poirot's play. He expressed minimal suspicion on all three scums.

HEY!!!! I was willing to lynch vezok if I couldn't get quadz lynched!!! (yeah, I know, I sucked overall)

I am SO happy you didn't claim miller btw. I read this quick topic before replacing in and it scared the crap out of me. Haha.

heh. I know what you're saying.

Wow... I'm impressed about Vezok's ability to spot PRs...

I will watch humble poirot tonight in hopes of finding the doctor.

Damn, xvart was spot on here.

Oso, the funniest thing is that you voted and tracked Sotty thinking that diddin had blocked the scumkill... And that was entirely false. Oh, the ironies of mafia.

There's nothing more amusing than to think about hypotheticals after game. Imagine if Oso was killed n1 instead of me. Dead tracker... Town sotty.

SSBF, I don't see how you would've moved past killing charter even if Oso had tracked q21. He would've been cleared. Your best bet for a kill was xvart and then Oso. I understand why you killed though. College is also getting busier for me and, as much as I want to, I probably won't join another game for a long time.

I think vezok does a better job conveying information in the QT than in the actual game

If vezok would've actually shown that kind of thought process in the form of pro-town posts he would've never needed to claim, giving scum a great boost, instead of being manipulated by town.

xvart, don't feel bad about some mistakes you made. At least you weren't scum's portrayed as scum's puppet in the QT.

[Humble Poirot]

It must have been tasty because I don't remember hearing any complains.

It's interesting the to see a tendency where scum tends to do extremely the opposite of what they might need do to look town (or throw WIFOM in case of their flip?). Sotty calling Oso and Humble town, proposing 3 town neighbours, SSBF calling xvart and me strong. town, everyone bussing each other...

In fact, as you can see in the neighbor QT, I was looking for someone who had been bussed by vezok. Which I thought was q21.

lol. Not too good. I was actually going to post some random image of a guy eating a hat from google images but I decided it wouldn't do well to dwell on it or bring it up.

wise.

[Humble Poirot]

lol. Not too good. I was actually going to post some random image of a guy eating a hat from google images but I decided it wouldn't do well to dwell on it or bring it up.

wise.

Wise, but disappointingly non-hilarious.

Disappointingly non-hilarious doesn't get you lynched.

[Humble Poirot]

@Kage: you talk about a dead QT and don't post the link!! That's evil!

P.S: Humble I'm a female, just an FYI

yeah, sorry. I have most things disabled and don't see the female icon (just a text which I pay no attention to). Your nick doesn't automatically give me any clue and I write in he/male by default.

@Tazaro. I hope this becomes very clear to you: You were anything but funny this game. You were the most annoying player I've seen so far. And I've seen some. You kept ignoring my requests to moderate your posting habits. You replaced in without really reading and then asked to be replaced out. I seriously hope you learn from this and stop sabotaging games. It's not funny when you triple post repeateadly. You ruined day 2 for me. You're not cool for spamming. I've said this throughout the game and I'll say it again.

[Humble Poirot]

Hey... I shouldn't even be listening to you... You're scum. Thanks for the QT. Fun.

[Humble Poirot]

wait, no... I thought you were sotty... Kage... hi... Why are you defending rotten scum?

[Humble Poirot]

The town was way overpowered.
Did the neighbors get randomly selected or did you choose to make the JK and the tracker in a night QT?

This was an impossible win for the scum but because of sotty 's death we lost right then.


Also TNM : Don't make the godfather do the kills. You should let other people to do stuff. Also because of the amount of power fake claiming is impossible.

Vezok. I don't think you realize how the game went. Although I agree with you that the town had a little too much strenght. Specially if the cop was sane, I don't think you appreciate the real chances you had at winning this game. If you hadn't tied yourself with your claim so early in the game there would've been a big probability of you guys winning. Also, If SSBF had lyched xvart when you were L-1 you guys could've killed the last of the PRs without much trouble and have SSBF win a 2-1 lylo after your unavoidable lynch.

You had to realize that claiming watcher early wasn't as great as you thought it was.

I'll admit though, If we had 12 pro-town players it would've been pretty hard for scum to win if scum wasn't extremely lucky with nightkills.

Another thing I agree with you is that mafia should be able to both kill and action. It's very limiting to take an ability from them if they have to kill because they can be easily found once they've claimed, if they can't perform their action.

xvart, I'm glad you didn't lie. Lying as town is awful. 99% of times is not only unnecesary but harmful. There's always the exception but I think it can possible in a smaller context where you have better knowledge of the situation.


Someone needs to remind totallynotmafia to post his thoughts about this game before he moves on and forgets all about it.