Mini 1046 - Murder in the Desert (Game Over!)

[Parama]

CES and Lowell are both bitter over the last games I played with them, hehe.
I'm still trying to figure out if Demon realizes that he's turning even the minutest of details into scumtells. You start out with decent points but inevitably you're just making stuff up.
SLAXX I HOPE WE'RE ON THE SAME TEAM THIS TIME, LAST TWO GAMES WE HAVEN'T BEEN :<
Ooooh but boberz is definitely scum,

vote: boberz

[Parama]

But also because he had second thoughts and doubted himself. It is like he was too scared to ask me to vote in his first post, but then plucked up the courage. Scum have more reasons to be scared than town so I reckon Slaxx is the nearest we have to scum so far.

A nice proper serious vote for you slaxx.

This is something I'd only buy as RVS logic. And you're anti-RVS, as you said yourself.

RVS ends for different people at different times. I'm not ready to leave it yet. Things are starting to change.
Your vote: I'm not sure. It has a twist of randomness in it. Why do you think that Slaxx asking you to vote is encouraging RVS, however?
RVS wagons are the fastest way to leave RVS, not to find scum.

Unvote, Vote: boberz

This is not solid logic by any means.

Nothing else to say CES?

Hey, at least he isn't contradicting himself!

RVS ends for different people at different times.

It just shouldnt exist full stop. So I am not even having this discussion.

^this isn't a scumtell, it's just boberz being a boring person

Why do you think that Slaxx asking you to vote is encouraging RVS, however?

Becasue two random votes had just been laid down (including one from himself) so I just assumed he was encouraging a random vote.

You don't vote someone just because they like RVS and you don't. Otherwise your vote is an RVS vote and thus you are contradicting yourself. Oh look, there's that word again.

RVS wagons are the fastest way to leave RVS, not to find scum.

How about we just never enter it, shocking idea. And everything should be geared to finding scum. I have no objections to RVS wagons though.

"I am Anti-RVS"
"I am Pro-RVS"

This is what you just said, btw.

It just shouldnt exist full stop. So I am not even having this discussion.

But...it does.

??

You're trying too hard to look town. I like my vote and RVS is over for me.

No, this is a pointless preference discussion.

Becasue two random votes had just been laid down (including one from himself) so I just assumed he was encouraging a random vote.

Assuming makes an ass out of u and me.

So you're not saying it's scummy.

How about we just never enter it, shocking idea. And everything should be geared to finding scum. I have no objections to RVS wagons though.

You're contradicting yourself a bit. You want to never enter RVS, but have no objections to RVS wagons?

^this is good logic

Also, again, trying too hard to look town. I'm really liking my vote, so it stays.

*headdesk*
And you lost it again. Being anti-RVS does not make you look pro-town. It is not a tell at all.

Assuming makes an ass out of u and me

Perhaps, what do you think he meant?

Is that relevant, though?

You're contradicting yourself a bit. You want to never enter RVS, but have no objections to RVS wagons?

If there is RVS, then RVS wagons are good. I prefer not having RVS and having nice big juicy proper wagons.

So you'd gladly jump on an RVS wagon with no logic behind it, voting for no reason, even if you're against the RVS itself?

trying too hard to look town

No such thing.[/quote]
Yes, there is, but this is theory discussion plus the original accusation is BS.

But it doesnt have to.

Like 90% of the time, there is some form of RVS. You saying that you hate it that much that you'd rather see it completely gone instead of having a realistic view on RVS tells me that you're trying too hard to look town.

*headdesk* *headdesk*
Dear god this is going to be a long game.

Perhaps, what do you think he meant?

The opposite. Asking you to vote is actually promoting the

END

of RVS. Why did you think the opposite?

The only one who can confirm or deny this is Slaxx himself. You are also assuming here. Hypocrisy, anyone?

If there is RVS, then RVS wagons are good. I prefer not having RVS and having nice big juicy proper wagons.

I'm thinking you're trying to cover yourself. I will give you the benefit of the doubt here, however. Word things more carefully.

This is actually a contradiction from boberz, and you pass it off as nothing?

No such thing.

What?

Looking like town and -trying too hard- to look like town are two different things. And yes, you can try too hard to look town. That's why people say that certain statements or arguments seem forced.

^agree

Looking like town and -trying too hard- to look like town are two different things. And yes, you can try too hard to look town. That's why people say that certain statements or arguments seem forced.

Maybe... (enter a theory discussion here).... But there is no point in us discussing it. Needless to say I kind of disagree but not enough for it to matter.

This is not a theory discussion. Townies to do have to TRY to look town - if they play a good town game, they will be seen as town. Scum have to TRY to look town because they AREN'T town but need to be SEEN as town.

But essentially we should all be trying to look town. And being forced and trying too hard mean slightly different things to me, but if you are using them as synonyms then carry on I can deal with that.

No, we should all be trying to catch scum instead of focusing on looking town.

The opposite. Asking you to vote is actually promoting the END of RVS. Why did you think the opposite?

I still think he was asking me for a random vote, if you truly believe random votes are the way to stop RVS then we really need to go to MD. I do not believe he was asking me for a stretched forced real vote (what he got).

LET SLAXX ANSWER THIS FFS

I still think he was asking me for a random vote, if you truly believe random votes are the way to stop RVS then we really need to go to MD. I do not believe he was asking me for a stretched forced real vote (what he got).

I see it as asking you for a vote so that he could comment on it and try to end RVS faster. Which he did.

MY GOD.
Welcome to Assumefest 2010, where we both make different assumptions and then call each other out for having conflicting assumptions without knowing who is right!
And, *gasp*, it's irrelevant either way!

I see it as asking you for a vote so that he could comment on it and try to end RVS faster. Which he did.

He ended RVS? I am taking credit for it.

A vote was always coming in my next post. You really do need to look at one of my past games.

You didn't end RVS since your vote on Slaxx was an RVS vote with a bad excuse to try and make it not look like one.
Also, LOL META. That is all.

No, he tried to end RVS faster. Like I said: RVS ends at different times for different people

We interpreted it differently clearly.

This is why you let Slaxx answer it. He is, in fact, the manifestation of pure awesome, so...

Nothing more to say Lowell, you are not short of content.

It's his first post. You're expecting an essay? I mean, this is Lowell we're talking about!

Yeah scum you better watch out for me, I'mma own you good this game. No more Mini 984s where the scum dominate for 3 days and then get massacred the next 3 - this time you're all going down before Night 3 falls.

[Parama]

My vote on Slaxx wasnt random it was thought through, although granted he may not be scum.

Well, if you honestly believe your vote was serious...
It is founded in terrible logic. Please remove it.

I did not contradict myself. i dont like the RVS, but when it exists RVS wagons exist. I am happy to jump on RVS wagons if I think it will stop the RVS.

So you believe a bandwagon vote for the sake of bandwagoning is better than an RVS vote?

I will do anything to stop the RVS. It is the most senseless part of the whole of RVS. It is not exactly a position I just invented for this game, I have thought through it quite a lot, I am hardly likely to contradict myself in the same sentence. Come on. Wake up. Turn your brains on people.

Parama you complain at us for discussing theory, but I actually stopped talking about theory in a post you quoted then put your tuppenceworth in. Hypocrite.

Um, I have no clue what you're trying to say here or what you're referencing.

It's his first post. You're expecting an essay? I mean, this is Lowell we're talking about!

Worth asking

Not really.

No, we should all be trying to catch scum instead of focusing on looking town.

Yes sort of but this is theory that you told me not to talk about. You then used it to sling mud at me.

Uh, no. It's not theory. It's basic scumhunting. Scum have no motive to scumhunt. Townies have no motive to put effort into looking town.

You don't vote someone just because they like RVS and you don't. Otherwise your vote is an RVS vote and thus you are contradicting yourself. Oh look, there's that word again.

But I like voting remorselessly thoughtfully during RVS it screws with people's conventions. It wasnt a whim it was always gonna happen.

Your vote is either an RVS vote or you disagreeing with Slaxx about game theory. RVS happens, deal with it. If other people like RVS, there is no logical reason to attack them for it.

[Parama]

@ Parama: In your massive post you agreed with some things DemonHybrid said and dismissed others as irrelevant. At this point, what do you think of Demon?

I cannot read him. Hate to dismiss the issue completely but he ALWAYS turns everything into a scumtell, whether town or scum. He's null for now, as are most players in the game at this point.

[Parama]

Vote: Xine

for totally legitimate reasons.

Some history there maybe? If that isn't a total joke, the story behind it might be good before we really get into the meat of the game.

Nope.

@boberz vs DemonHybrid and Parama, I feel like Demon is pushing a bunch of weak points against boberz and that boberz is getting frustrated, which is a towntell, imo.

And I agree with Slaxx that Bub seems like he's trying to mediate as scum; asking questions I don't like much.

unvote, vote: Bub Bidderskins

You did not read my post.

Okay, 2 scum here. Weapons/Boberz/???

[Parama]

You're like METALfootball or MetalheadNorm one of those two

[Parama]

Weapons, you assume I'm pushing on boberz with weak points yet you have admitted to not reading my post. Do you know what that makes me think? YOU'RE SCUM.

[Parama]

Well rather you say the push on boberz is weak without reading the biggest post that argues for a boberz lynch. It's like you're completely ignoring the arguments, and for no good reason.

[Parama]

So if it wasn't random, then what was your reason for voting Slaxx?

Are you actually reading Bub?

It was because he demonstrated indecision and fear by posting twice rather than once.
And for encouraging the anti-town RVS.

Lol, but those are terrible reasons.

I already told you posting twice is just how I post, it has nothing to do so with fear, bur you refuse to even acknowledge this because you are so desperate to justify your vote.

Pretty much agree with this.

I already told you posting twice is just how I post, it has nothing to do so with fear, bur you refuse to even acknowledge this because you are so desperate to justify your vote.

I accept that, I only repeated the accusation because Bub asked me why I voted for you (before that explanation was given). I then criticised Bub for not reading properly.

You repeated the accusation which means you still believed it EVEN AFTER Slaxx had already given this explanation. And given the terrible reason behind your votes, it's no surprise Bub asked you if you were serious.
P.S. boberz's post here looks a lot like an appeal attempt.

*hops*

Unvote, vote: boberz

Opportunistic scum, much?

Before I give my response to this - At the time of posting, did you think boberz was scum or town? Be honest, please. It's important.

Right now CES seems like scum. He's posted what, four times, and none of them have more than five or so words in them. It's sort of like he's saying "Hey guys, I'm in the game, but I don't want to say anything that would help the town."

And you haven't voted, at all.
Which helps the town more: A wall-o-text without a vote or a short post with a vote on scum?

Oh, and I'm not leaving you at L-1.

Unvote

Still my top suspect, but I'd rather no one quickhammer. I gotta look over some things first.

Nobody will quickhammer. Honestly. I don't see why people are so paranoid over this. No sane townie quickhammers a player at L-1 24 hours into D1. Really, scum wouldn't do this either IMO. This just looks like an exucse to be off the wagon in case boberz flips town. Put your vote where your suspicions lie.

Parama

: Also an early flavor. Managed to garner 3 votes at one point but, as far as I can tell, they were no-reason RVS votes. The only bells ringing here, and they are not very loud ones, is his logging off CES's and Lowell's votes to bitterness over prior games.

Fun fact: I haven't been voted since I first posted in this thread. Yes, all votes on me were RVS votes. If you thought I was actually a valid wagon without even getting a post in, and THEN you argue that I'm bandwagon on to the "competing" wagon AFTER A HUGE WALL OF TEXT, you know what I think? I think you're trying too hard to press suspicion on me, and failing miserably at it.

FoS: Oso

Slaxx

: The person I will vote if my actual vote goes no where. Main reason is L-1 on a player he has made a zero case on. He doesn't even bother to borrow someone else's.

Unvote

VOTE: Cogito Ergo Sum.

Here is why:
Then switches his vote to boberz after it looks as if the Parama wagon is going nowhere, making him 5th on that wagon but with no explanation. He did give a reason of sorts. Called it a *hop* . But gives no explanation for the *hop* . Even when asked for an explanation (by Bub I believe) he accuses Bub of being confused and still doesn't give an explanation. Just implies that the reason, a *hop*, somehow is all the justification that is needed.

What is the difference between this accusation and your accusation against Slaxx, and why CES's vote on boberz merit a vote when, in your own words, Slaxx did basically the same thing?

(P.S. - Slaxx didn't do the same thing as CES, but this is irrelevant to the question.)

Before I make my real post, however, the shower for me.

It was a long shower. In fact I think I have had three since this has been promised.

[/quote]
...he posted 19 minutes later.
It wasn't a very substantial post, but still...

[Parama]

TAGFAIL. Goddammit. I could edit my own post but that would be against the rules so can you fix it for me, mod? There's an extra [quote="Oso"] tag in there after the CES vote. Dunno what happened there.

[Parama]

Your post starts as IIoA.
boberz responded to the parts of my post that need responding. He's still scum, though.
Point out 3 examples of me being defensive, please.
DH, me, and Slaxx are the first 2 to put pressure on boberz - so if you think he's scum, you think one of the original attackers is likely scummy?

I would like to hear your thoughts on the cases against boberz and the attacks on CES and Slaxx. You say you find boberz scummy without directly referencing any reasons against him, and the try to pair him up with the people who provided those reasons in the first place.
I do not understand your paragraph about Slaxx at all... seems like IIoA again except I see no point.
Your questions directed at boberz are total crap. 1st is irrelevant, 2nd is asking about meta, 3rd is irrelevant.
Question at charter is totally worthless - he posted recently and it seems to support his earlier belief.
Also, note that Bub bolded his responses to my questions inside the quote.

PREVIEW EDIT:
Oh this is comedy gold.

For now, I see bob as pretty scummy, with one of Slaxx, Parama, or DH as his buddy, probably Parama, because he seems hyper defensive too.

oh yeah, VOTE: Parama, just so it be in black and white

You think I'm scum if boberz is scum. You even express boberz as your #1 suspicion
At the same time, you vote me over boberz.

FoS: Scumbuddy, Vote: Townie
^it's a pretty awesome scumtell

And here we have another scum. I'd almost say Xine is more obvious that boberz.

HoS: Xine

Let's lynch boberz today, Xine tomorrow, and Weapons on D3. GG.

[Parama]

Hmm, I've given 3 scum reads, now here's 3 town reads:
xvart, Lowell, charter - all probably town

[Parama]

inb4 OMG GIVING TOWN READS IS ANTI-TOWN

No, screw you. I'm playing this my way, deal with it.

[Parama]

This game is already over, since we've already caught all the scum. Now we just have to lynch them ok?

[Parama]

I am awesome incarnate, so that is not shocking.
I want everyone to give 3 scum reads and 3 town reads in their next post.

[Parama]

Yes, assuming that bob is scum, I would think it not unlikely that one of the three original attackers would be his buddy, it’s called distancing, and a pretty common play.

I know this.
What are the benefits for scum to bus their buddy from the getgo? More than likely it's going to lead to a scum lynch D1, which is against the scum wincon.

The reason I voted you not him…I found a likely team, and put my vote on the one who is not hovering around L-1. I’m not ready to jump up on such an advanced wagon on my first post.

If you think someone is scum, you should not be afraid to put them at L-1.

Weapons, you assume I'm pushing on boberz with weak points yet you have admitted to not reading my post. Do you know what that makes me think? YOU'RE SCUM.

Not a defense. He admitted to not reading my post, and then is trying to make the argument that the case on boberz is weak. This has nothing to do with me personally.

Well rather you say the push on boberz is weak without reading the biggest post that argues for a boberz lynch. It's like you're completely ignoring the arguments, and for no good reason.

[/quote]
This is a follow-up to the last post quoted, which also has nothing to do with me.

Fun fact: I haven't been voted since I first posted in this thread. Yes, all votes on me were RVS votes. If you thought I was actually a valid wagon without even getting a post in, and THEN you argue that I'm bandwagon on to the "competing" wagon AFTER A HUGE WALL OF TEXT, you know what I think? I think you're trying too hard to press suspicion on me, and failing miserably at it. FoS: Oso

Okay, so this is a defense, but I'm also pointing out why Oso's logic is scummy.

Boberz has triggered my scum-dar in many places, but specifically by being defensive and drawing extra attention to that of his play which he considers to be particularly pro-town, and you rushing to his defense by calling my questions stupid only increases my read that you are buddies

I'm "rushing to his defense" because your questions are crap and are not scumhunting at all? I am not defending him, I am attacking you. At the same time, boberz is #1 on my scum list and I am currently voting him. And you claim I am defending him?

Oh geez.
Anyways, you did not give the 3 scum/3 town list I requested, can you work on that?

[Parama]

Your post starts as IIoA.
boberz responded to the parts of my post that need responding. He's still scum, though.
Point out 3 examples of me being defensive, please.
DH, me, and Slaxx are the first 2 to put pressure on boberz - so if you think he's scum, you think one of the original attackers is likely scummy?

I would like to hear your thoughts on the cases against boberz and the attacks on CES and Slaxx. You say you find boberz scummy without directly referencing any reasons against him, and the try to pair him up with the people who provided those reasons in the first place.
I do not understand your paragraph about Slaxx at all... seems like IIoA again except I see no point.
Your questions directed at boberz are total crap. 1st is irrelevant, 2nd is asking about meta, 3rd is irrelevant.
Question at charter is totally worthless - he posted recently and it seems to support his earlier belief.
Also, note that Bub bolded his responses to my questions inside the quote.

PREVIEW EDIT:
Oh this is comedy gold.
Xine wrote:
For now, I see bob as pretty scummy, with one of Slaxx, Parama, or DH as his buddy, probably Parama, because he seems hyper defensive too.
Xine wrote:
oh yeah, VOTE: Parama, just so it be in black and white
You think I'm scum if boberz is scum. You even express boberz as your #1 suspicion
At the same time, you vote me over boberz.

FoS: Scumbuddy, Vote: Townie
^it's a pretty awesome scumtell

And here we have another scum. I'd almost say Xine is more obvious that boberz. HoS: Xine
Let's lynch boberz today, Xine tomorrow, and Weapons on D3. GG

Massive OMGUS.

Lol. You didn't even read my arguments, obviously.
If Xine thinks boberz is scum, and I'm just a "buddy", then why isn't he voting his #1 scumread? Because FoS: Scumbbudy, Vote: Townie.

I'm "rushing to his defense" because your questions are crap and are not scumhunting at all? I am not defending him, I am attacking you. At the same time, boberz is #1 on my scum list and I am currently voting him. And you claim I am defending him?

Admitted OMUGUS

vote: Parama

I am attacking him, yes. I am not attacking him simply because he voted me, though. If you'd actually READ my posts, you'd know this.

When some one finally put a serious vote on you, the first thing you do is vote at them. How can you honestly think Xine is scum when he only posted twice before you voted for him? And it wasn't as if they were scummy posts, on the contrary, the only thing "scummy" about them was that in the second post he voted for you. That's a textbook definition of OMUGUS.

1. Because the vote had terrible logic. Xine says boberz is his #1 scumpick, then proceeds not to vote him. P.S. I never voted Xine.
2. Well, for starters, FoS: Scumbbuddy, Vote: Townie. Note: boberz voted Slaxx with a "serious" vote after only two posts.
3. Yes, the first post was scummy. Very scummy. I already explained why.

I'm lol'ing so hard right now. Bub thinks I'm OMGUSing even though I broke down each and every scummy thing about Xine's two posts and showed how he was incredibly likely to be scum with boberz. Except Bub is also content to not even mention my arguments and simply dismiss it all as OMGUS. I think we have another scum here - sorry for calling you out earlier, Weapons

[Parama]

Boberz seems to be getting pretty tense by now. Every answer he gives creates more questions. He is contradicting himself heavily, and claiming that he is not doing so, in a rather defensive way.
For now,

I see bob as pretty scummy

, with one of Slaxx, Parama, or DH as his

buddy

, probably Parama, because he seems hyper defensive too.

This implies that you want to lynch boberz first and then one of the three you mentioned as his buddy, btw.

[Parama]

And guess who is getting called out for scum now? Bub, who also happens to be voting for mister OMGUS. It seems like every time some one makes a serious vote on you, you get all indignant and say they're scum. That isn't indicative of town play. In order to attempt to disguise this overtly over-defensive behaviour, you cushioned your OMGUS by saying the person you OMGUSed was scummy.

You cannot dismiss valid logic as OMGUS. You accuse me of OMGUSing Xine, yet you do not even bother to explain why my arguments against Xine are invalid. You now accuse me of OMGUSing you, and you haven't explained why my arguments against YOU are invalid.

P.S. Here's what's happening ITT:
boberz is teh scum
Xine makes perfectly valid case against boberz, calls me out as a potential buddy, and then votes me over boberz, aka FoS: Scumbuddy, Vote: Townie
I attack Xine for perfectly logical reasons
Bub chainsaw defends Xine by attacking me and accusing me of OMGUS while ignoring those perfectly logical reasons I presented against Xine
I call him out for this with more perfectly logical reasons
Bub accuses me of OMGUS for the second time, again ignoring the perfectly logical reasons

Question: If Xine had not voted for you, would you have voted for him?

I did not vote him in the first place, and most of my first post mentioning him was typed out before the vote (see: Preview Edit). I still want to lynch boberz first, because I still find him scummiest.

Question: Did you think I was scummy before I voted for you?

I did not have you in my top 3 scumreads, but you were scummy FMPOV for refusal to take any solid stances; see:

Right now CES seems like scum. He's posted what, four times, and none of them have more than five or so words in them. It's sort of like he's saying "Hey guys, I'm in the game, but I don't want to say anything that would help the town."

And you haven't voted, at all.
Which helps the town more: A wall-o-text without a vote or a short post with a vote on scum?

where I called you out for this.

The situation presented in that topic is different. I made my case

and

said Parama used OMGUS at the same time, after Parama presented a purely OMGUS case against Xine. Then, Parama said I was scum right after I voted for him.

1. My case is not purely OMGUS. My reasons for suspecting Xine are NOT because he attacked me, but how he did it - calling me a scumbuddy of boberzscum, yet not voting boberz after this accusation.
2. I called you out because you IGNORED ^this^ and passed off VALID LOGIC as OMGUS. And now you're passing off THIS SAME LOGIC as OMGUS as well.

DH, I am not voting Bub because I have my vote on scum already. Xine and Bub can happen later, no, WILL happen later, but I cannot lynch 3 people in one day.
Unless someone is a day-vig and wants to kill one of them today for us. I'd be quite glad if someone did that, thanks ^.^

[Parama]

I did not vote him in the first place, and most of my first post mentioning him was typed out before the vote (see: Preview Edit). I still want to lynch boberz first, because I still find him scummiest.

Me mistaking your seething and bolded HoS for a vote does not give you an excuse to dodge the question.

I did not dodge it. I said I wouldn't have voted him if he didn't vote me - see the fact that most of my argument against Xine was written BEFORE I even saw the vote.

P.S. Here's what's happening ITT:
boberz is teh scum

Why do you think he's scum again?

Xine makes perfectly valid case against boberz, calls me out as a potential buddy, and then votes me over boberz, aka FoS: Scumbuddy, Vote: Townie

This appears to be your only semi-valid point against Xine. And yet, if it's so important, how come you never bothered to ask him why he did it? If you really cared about that part that actually had a shred of logic in it, then you would have gotten his take on it. I know from the way you've attacked my play style that you don't have much respect for evaluating other people's stances, but you should have at least made an exception here. Go ahead, ask him why he did it, but until you do my opinion is still the same: OMGUS

It's my main point against Xine. I said this exact same thing the first time I suspected him.
Shocking revelation: Xine did reply to my argument, and I replied to his reply:

The reason I voted you not him…I found a likely team, and put my vote on the one who is not hovering around L-1. I’m not ready to jump up on such an advanced wagon on my first post.

If you think someone is scum, you should not be afraid to put them at L-1.

Also note that my other accusations: IIoA posting, irrelevant or weak questions,

So you're just not reading the thread now.

I attack Xine for perfectly logical reasons

^see above^

Your above has been nullified.

Bub chainsaw defends Xine by attacking me and accusing me of OMGUS while ignoring those perfectly logical reasons I presented against Xine

They are not ignored anymore, ^see above^

1. In this post. Bub admits that he ignored my reasons against Xine when he attacked me in the first place. Brilliant.
2. Again, above is nullified.

I call him out for this with more perfectly logical reasons

Your "perfectly logical reasons" were only concerned with me "ignoring" your "perfectly logical reasons" in your case on Xine. Well, that has been ammended, what do you think of me now?

Um, like I said, Bub admits he ignored my reasons when attacking me. You have not ignored it anymore, but that does not change the fact that YOU DID NO READ MY REASONS WHEN YOU INITIALLY ATTACKED ME. THEREFORE, YOU COULD NOT KNOW IF MY ATTACK WAS PURELY OMGUS. BUT YOU SAID IT WAS ANYWAYS. WITHOUT. EVEN. READING. IT.
This is why Bub is self-admitted scum.

Bub accuses me of OMGUS for the second time, again ignoring the perfectly logical reasons

^see above^

You said yourself that I wasn't in your top list of suspects until I voted for you. The only reason I was even remotely scummy was that you personally didn't like my play style.

…
What?
Yes, you entered my suspicions list with your chainsaw defense of Xine without even reading my arguments against Xine (as you stated yourself).
This has nothing to do with your playstyle.

OMGUS is defined as voting for some one primarily because they voted for you. As I've shown above, the only "reason" you had for voting for me was a weak and flimsey cover for your real intentions.

If you’ve been paying attention, it’s pretty damn strong logic.

Parama, you say "reasons" for suspecting me, yet you list only one reason,do you have any others?

See earlier in this post. I said these earlier but I'm repeating them for the blind scum.

IMO, hyper defensivness is very much a scum tell, and I see you getting more defensive every time you are questioned

If someone called you out for doing something scummy, wouldn't you want to tell them how wrong they are? P.S. You've been defensive too.

Also, many of you have been pressuring bub to take a stand on something, and as soon as he does, you say his point is flawed and he is therefore scum, really, what's up with the double standard?

He took a stand, and it was a flawed stand. Why wouldn't people call him out for that? If he had made a logical case on a player, he wouldn't be receiving the pressure. But he was pressure to take a stand after not taking one, and when he did, he did a terrible job of it.

It's a better point then "You don't like the RVS, therefore you are scum" argument that earned nearly 5 pages of attacks on Boberz.

This definitely isn't my argument against boberz, btw. You yourself gave some valid logic earlier, and now here you are defending him.

[Parama]

Ugh, more tag fail.

From this point on, stop posting bolded answers inside quotes. It makes responding a hell of a lot harder.

[Parama]

I still want to lynch Boberz first but having both a Bob and a Bub wagon is pretty cool awesome d(''d)

[Parama]

Question: Are you voting for me now just because you don't like my play style?

I have not seen an argument against you that had anything to do with play styles.

[Parama]

Question: Are you voting for me now just because you don't like my play style?

I have not seen an argument against you that had anything to do with play styles.

Don't put words into your possible scumbud's mouth.

You directed this same accusation towards me. I think I have a right to restate what you obviously missed.

[Parama]

Question: Are you voting for me now just because you don't like my play style?

I have not seen an argument against you that had anything to do with play styles.

Don't put words into your possible scumbud's mouth.

You directed this same accusation towards me. I think I have a right to restate what you obviously missed.

Hey Bub, I think you missed this, and I'm pretty sure you need to comment on it.

Why are you still voting Boberz?

I think he might be scum.

*sigh*

I think boberz might be scum.
I think Bub Bidderskins might be scum.
I think charter might be scum.
I think Cogito Ergo Sum might be scum.
I think DemonHybrid might be scum.
I think Lowell might be scum.
I think Oso might be scum.
I think Slaxx might be scum.
I think WeaponsofMassConstruction might be scum.
I think Xine might be scum.
I think xvart might be scum.

None of the above are lies. I could say all this and be telling the truth every time.

I think boberz is scum.
I think Bub Bidderskins is scum.
I think Xine is scum.

None of these are lies, either. If I replaced any of these 3 names with any other name besides these three, though, I'd be lying.

Scum tend to make fewer definite statements than town - it gives them the ability to back out of their reads.

FoS: CES

Xvart is flying under the radar somewhat also.

Pro-tip: Someone who has been posting a decent amount of content and yet hasn't received much attention in terms of suspicions is probably town.

[Parama]

How about you let Bub answer the question before chainsaw attacking boberz because of it.

[Parama]

Bud, do you think boberz is scum?
Boberz, do you think Xine is scum?
Xine, do you think Bub is scum?

[Parama]

unvote, vote: Bub

*hops*

[Parama]

Don't think Slaxx is scum, Bub definitely is though.

[Parama]

Fun fact: I'm not reading the boberz-xvart argument

[Parama]

I think boberz is the least suspicious of my scumreads at this point, to be honest. It's funny that Bub has all but disappeared since put under pressure (last post 9/11/10 2:17 PM CST - about 45 hours ago)

[Parama]

I totally believe Bub is scum with Xine. I mean, part of my initial reason for suspecting him has to do with the fact that he chainsawed me to defend Xine. If Bub flips scum (he will) then Xine is most definitely scum with him.

[Parama]

If he gets prodded, hammer him without mercy. I do not play the OH HE FLAKED ABANDON WAGON game.

[Parama]

16 hours and 10 minutes from this post, btw. That's how long he has to post before he gets hammered.

[Parama]

Still saying boberz, but it's not as certain as before. The Xine/Bub/boberz theory has the alternate potential of working if Xine was scum trying not to be on a mislynch wagon (boberz) in which case there's a good chance the scum is in {Slaxx, DH} which I don't like and a good chance Xine doesn't know how to bus and has not expressed suspicion of his remaining buddy.

[Parama]

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 2#p2499712 for starters

[Parama]

My god. I would personally modkill Bub for that hammer, but I'm not modding.
At least he claimed scum for us.

[Parama]

Nah, his hammer looks like a ragequit, which is playing against your wincon and all.

[Parama]

^yeah

Mod could you specify a length?

There's none in the OP so

[Parama]

vote: Xine

This is obvious.

[Parama]

I think Xine is town. In examination in iso, it seems he started believing Parama was town while not wanting to appear scummy for quickly changing his opinion because of #5.

appeal to attacker

[Parama]

Actually, Socrates has a bad habit of always following my lead, even when I'm scum. See: NY114.
Admittedly, I caught 2 of the 3 scum on the other team in that game so

Anyways, Xine is teh scum.

[Parama]

This is basically all that needs to be said on the matter.

Your post starts as IIoA.
boberz responded to the parts of my post that need responding. He's still scum, though.
Point out 3 examples of me being defensive, please.
DH, me, and Slaxx are the first 2 to put pressure on boberz - so if you think he's scum, you think one of the original attackers is likely scummy?

I would like to hear your thoughts on the cases against boberz and the attacks on CES and Slaxx. You say you find boberz scummy without directly referencing any reasons against him, and the try to pair him up with the people who provided those reasons in the first place.
I do not understand your paragraph about Slaxx at all... seems like IIoA again except I see no point.
Your questions directed at boberz are total crap. 1st is irrelevant, 2nd is asking about meta, 3rd is irrelevant.
Question at charter is totally worthless - he posted recently and it seems to support his earlier belief.
Also, note that Bub bolded his responses to my questions inside the quote.

PREVIEW EDIT:
Oh this is comedy gold.
Xine wrote:
For now, I see bob as pretty scummy, with one of Slaxx, Parama, or DH as his buddy, probably Parama, because he seems hyper defensive too.
Xine wrote:
oh yeah, VOTE: Parama, just so it be in black and white
You think I'm scum if boberz is scum. You even express boberz as your #1 suspicion
At the same time, you vote me over boberz.

FoS: Scumbuddy, Vote: Townie
^it's a pretty awesome scumtell

And here we have another scum. I'd almost say Xine is more obvious that boberz. HoS: Xine
Let's lynch boberz today, Xine tomorrow, and Weapons on D3. GG

Massive OMGUS.

I'm "rushing to his defense" because your questions are crap and are not scumhunting at all? I am not defending him, I am attacking you. At the same time, boberz is #1 on my scum list and I am currently voting him. And you claim I am defending him?

Admitted OMUGUS

vote: Parama

When some one finally put a serious vote on you, the first thing you do is vote at them. How can you honestly think Xine is scum when he only posted twice before you voted for him? And it wasn't as if they were scummy posts, on the contrary, the only thing "scummy" about them was that in the second post he voted for you. That's a textbook definition of OMUGUS.

[Parama]

We're just buddies <3

[Parama]

Xine, my original logic against you + Bub's CHAINSAW DEFENSE of you. Not just the Bub thing. You were a good lynch before Bub flipped scum.

[Parama]

I'm willing to bet:
A. Xine is scum
B. Xine's buddy has voted him today

[Parama]

Even if Slaxx is scum, I want to save him for last because he's Slaxx and thus awesome.

[Parama]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

OH GOD
BWAHAHAHAHAHA
I MEAN ARE SERIOUS
DEAR GOD
BWAHAHAHA HAHAHAHA HAHAHA

[Parama]

DH, the joke explains itself.
Thus my laughing maniacally post.

[Parama]

Socrates vs DH is town vs town
boberz is a gut town read IMO. Changing my mind, yep.
Slaxx is too awesome to lynch even if he's scum (I don't think he is)
xvart and charter are obvtown
Lowell is just dumb

Who does that leave?
Xine and WOMC.
Because WOMC's comments on Socrates REEEK of opportunism.

[Parama]

I in'ned this game to play with Slaxx. Even if he's scum, there's still another scum besides him.

Fun fact: I don't think Slaxx is scum regardless.

[Parama]

Who did you track N0?

[Parama]

N1, rather.

*has been playing on #mafia too much recently*

[Parama]

I just want to hear this result, then I'll be fine with the lynch.
Because, well, I still think Xine is scum. And I want to see who he tries to clear/incriminate.

[Parama]

No.
Hell no.

[Parama]

Hmm.

Actually, if they want to, they can. If they don't want to, then they shouldn't.

[Parama]

Slaxx, what is the point of this? His claim makes no sense from every possible angle. It's like you're desperately looking for something you can believe about it.

I'd like more clarification on how you feel this way.

Unvote

Here's your answer:
Xine is scum.

[Parama]

DH, unvote right now you moron.
Why can't we lynch Xine faster?

[Parama]

Hmm.
I kinda think a Xine lynch would be better tomorrow.

unvote

Until then...
need to check over something before placing a vote. Meh.

[Parama]

A mafia tracker in a mini normal. Speculate more.

I've totally played at least 1 game, maybe 2 games, with Maf. Trackers that were normal.

[Parama]

vote: WOMC

WHOMP WHOMP

[Parama]

A smart doc or bg shouldn't protect Xine tonight.

I'm in favor of a Socrates track I guess.

[Parama]

Modify it:
In the event that today's lynch flips town, track random.
In the event that today's lynch flips scum, track <playername> or else.

[Parama]

Yeah, WOMC is at L-2 btw.

[Parama]

Wait gah I just remembered something

unvote

Weapons is probably town, and I really need to reread.

[Parama]

Interactions with Bub. Bub actually made some strong attacks against him and Weapons had good rebuttal. Plus, Bub got REALLY hung up on a question he posed to Weapons.

[Parama]

When I reread Weapons and then Bub in ISO.

[Parama]

xvart, what do you think of WOMC?
boberz, what do you think of Slaxx?
Lowell, what do you think of Xine?

[Parama]

Hmm, I agree with your points on xvart but I want to read him in ISO myself first.

[Parama]

The WOMC wagon was crap from the start.
Xine, I'm not someone you want to learn from
I wouldn't mind an xvart lynch.

unvote, vote: xvart

[Parama]

I just noticed bub was a roleblocker. tracker claim looks worse.

??? Explain ???
Roleblocker is a role that should be in every mafia setup that isn't mountainous (ofc having a roleblocker makes it not mountainous anyways so)

[Parama]

Lowell, stop failing please <_<

[Parama]

The gist of xvart's defense is WIFOM and meta from what I can tell.

d(''d)

=====[]

[Parama]

There's way too much for me to respond to everything right now, btw. Might take a harder look at stuff later.

[Parama]

If xvart flips town, any vig with a brain should vig Slaxx.
In the absence of that, we have to waste a lynch on him D3 :/

[Parama]

boberz:
I almost never breadcrumb and I'm somewhat experienced.
In contrast, Andrius has been breadcrumbing since he started playing mafia

[Parama]

Hmm.

unvote

need to reread the past few pages :/ :/

[Parama]

Xvart's willingness to talk about the nightkill is looking bad. He's also posted significantly less than everyone else.

Vote: Xvart

Seriously, you're starting to talk more and all it does is detract from the scumhunting. Bad dog, no biscuit

This vote totally came after 3 other DH posts with no xvart post in between. 5 minutes since DH's most recent post. The timing of this just plain sucks.

Boo. As promised:

unvote, vote:xvart

PREVIEW EDIT: I think this is L-1?

Ohai there you have a reason to be doing this?

Hmm...
Part of me wants to lynch Xine the most regardless of claim.
Another part says that lynching xvart has good consequences and finding a scum for sure:
xvarttown = DH scum
xvartscum = Socrates scum

Want to say Slaxx is town though his play has been awkward for a while. Gut town read on boberz, Lowell and charter read as town no matter how you look at them (though both a bit misguided at times). WOMC is probably town though it's a weird thing making me think that.

And that really covers all bases.
I say we go ahead with the xvart lynch because the conditional flip makes a crapton of sense to me. Hopefully it's the latter, since Socrates is scummier than DH due to interactions with xvart... he might be scum in BOTH cases, in fact.
Anyways, let's just get this lynch done and then watch how the rest of the game unfolds.

vote: xvart

I really don't care about hitting scum for sure today, since we still have 2 MLs to burn if need be (most likely not). Neither of the remaining scum is as obvious as Bub, which is unfortunate. It was actually kinda cute how obvious Bub was. Plus, I've seen chainsaw defending fail as a scumteall before (I used it in another game which lead to 2 MLs when there was 1 scum remaining in 6p :/ Not my best moment.)

[Parama]

Screw it, shower to think --->

unvote vote Socrates

Prob the way to go for today.

[Parama]

DH, Lowell is town. Leave him be, he just plays different from what you're used to.

[Parama]

null

/post

I don't care about DH right now.

[Parama]

Xine: Explain what has changed about me since you first called me scum and voted me.
Do you still think boberz is scum?
Do you think Slaxx's willingness to be lynched is a scum gambit?

[Parama]

Slaxx, what changed from your initial read on xvart (scum) to your current read on him (town) when the main focus of your initial read is something that can't be changed?

[Parama]

Slaxx, if you're town, your lynch can do nothing but hurt the town.

You're not being very fun to play with if you're all suicidal like that :<

[Parama]

I'm going to say a Socrates lynch today will result in a scumflip come nightfall d(''d)

[Parama]

lynch sock

[Parama]

Everyone in this game named Slaxx is town, everyone wearing a Professor Layton avatar is not.

[Parama]

I'm holding on for the hammer btw.
DH can tell you how much I like hammering.

[Parama]

Mod: Requesting vote count

If any of {xvart, Socrates, Xine} get to L-1 I am going to hammer without mercy. I'm fine with any of those lynches today.

[Parama]

unvote, vote: xvart

yo

[Parama]

Okay, DH is scum, Socrates is scum, gg.

[Parama]

Xvart.
Top 3 scumreads.
Right now.

[Parama]

We lynch DH or Soc tomrrow.

[Parama]

*sigh*

[Parama]

Hate to sound arrogant but

You guys need to listen to my reads more. They tend to be right.
Example:

Hmm, I've given 3 scum reads, now here's 3 town reads:
xvart, Lowell, charter - all probably town

The Dead:

xvart, Townie, lynched D2

Lowell, Townie, lynched D3

charter, Townie, lynched D4

^this is why town lost the game

[Parama]

Wow. Town, you blew it. Sweet.

Sucks that you yourself don't really deserve the win and I personally would've modkilled you for the self-hammer.

[Parama]

d(''d) GJ Nic.

[Parama]

boberz - you said you'd played with me before, when was this? .-.

[Parama]

*goes and reads game's flavor*

<___<