Mini 1046 - Murder in the Desert (Game Over!)

[Xine]

Recap:

Starting out with some back and forth between boberz and slaxx, then DH picked up for Slaxx in questioning boberz. Soon, Parma joins in the questioning of Boberz and Boberz finally loses patience and simply refuses to answer anymore, in his non-answer post, (post 36) he implies that at least 7 points, made by Parama, which I personally thought the response to would be appropriate, were just not even worth responding to. Parama, seems to not care. Boberz seems to be getting pretty tense by now. Every answer he gives creates more questions. He is contradicting himself heavily, and claiming that he is not doing so, in a rather defensive way.
For now, I see bob as pretty scummy, with one of Slaxx, Parama, or DH as his buddy, probably Parama, because he seems hyper defensive too.

Meanwhile, Slaxx, who started this trend, and is discussed heavily on the back and forth…btw, what was your reason that you demanded he place an early vote?….never actually voted boberz…then places a vote on someone else entirely. Charter also seems to notice Slaxx as the primary adversary to boberz, so much that he makes a probable scum pair out of it. WOMC does not like the pair he picked, and Slaxx takes that as evidence that two (WOMC and Charter) are not a scum team. Slaxx is definitely setting trends in this game, I will be watching him, and other people’s reactions to him carefully.

Boberz, do you really shower every 7 1/2 hours? Why do you get so defensive when people question your play style? Why are you so fixated on taking credit for ending the RVS?
Charter, do you still believe in your Slaxx/boberz theory?
Bub: was there any particular point you were trying to make with that last post?

[Xine]

oh yeah, VOTE: Parama, just so it be in black and white

[Xine]

Parama
Yes, assuming that bob is scum, I would think it not unlikely that one of the three original attackers would be his buddy, it’s called distancing, and a pretty common play.
The reason I voted you not him…I found a likely team, and put my vote on the one who is not hovering around L-1. I’m not ready to jump up on such an advanced wagon on my first post.
Here are your 3 examples you asked for

Weapons, you assume I'm pushing on boberz with weak points yet you have admitted to not reading my post. Do you know what that makes me think? YOU'RE SCUM.

Well rather you say the push on boberz is weak without reading the biggest post that argues for a boberz lynch. It's like you're completely ignoring the arguments, and for no good reason.

Fun fact: I haven't been voted since I first posted in this thread. Yes, all votes on me were RVS votes. If you thought I was actually a valid wagon without even getting a post in, and THEN you argue that I'm bandwagon on to the "competing" wagon AFTER A HUGE WALL OF TEXT, you know what I think? I think you're trying too hard to press suspicion on me, and failing miserably at it. FoS: Oso

Thank you for pointing out his bolded responses…
CES’s choice to wagon hop and speak little is an odd one, I don’t think it’s really a good play, but my experience is that it is quite possibly a null-tell. Boberz has triggered my scum-dar in many places, but specifically by being defensive and drawing extra attention to that of his play which he considers to be particularly pro-town, and you rushing to his defense by calling my questions stupid only increases my read that you are buddies

[Xine]

Face it, Oso, bandwagonning is awesome. Unless I have a good reason not to, I always put down the fifth vote on berz in that situation. Pressure, pressure, pressure.

Ok, so you like bandwaggons...how do you feel about hammers?

Lol, but those are terrible reasons.

Yes but better than 'vote boberz cos it sounds like roberz' or other such random votes. It was purely a way to stop RVS before it started and create conversation.

You repeated the accusation which means you still believed it EVEN AFTER Slaxx had already given this explanation. And given the terrible reason behind your votes, it's no surprise Bub asked you if you were serious.
P.S. boberz's post here looks a lot like an appeal attempt

I never really believed it but it was necessary to pretend that I believed it

. I repeated the accusation because he specifically asked me to.

It wasn't a very substantial post, but still...

This was my point exactly.

Why was it necessary?

inb4 OMG GIVING TOWN READS IS ANTI-TOWN

No, screw you. I'm playing this my way, deal with it.

^
this is defensive, and nobody had even said anything, guilty conscience much?
"just his buddy"=scum, btw
and hey, can you point out where I said that Bob was my #1 suspect? 'cause I can't find it

[Xine]

Parama, you say "reasons" for suspecting me, yet you list only one reason,do you have any others?
IMO, hyper defensivness is very much a scum tell, and I see you getting more defensive every time you are questioned, and that is the primary reason I am keeping my vote on you for now. just so you know.

Also, many of you have been pressuring bub to take a stand on something, and as soon as he does, you say his point is flawed and he is therefore scum, really, what's up with the double standard? I think he made a decent point, Parama is showing a trend of FOSing anybody who suspects him. One point is not really a case, but at this early stage in the game one point is enough to start with. It's a better point then "You don't like the RVS, therefore you are scum" argument that earned nearly 5 pages of attacks on Boberz.

If I get the time tonight, or tomorrow I plan to do a re-read, and maybe run an ISO or three, there is a good chance this may give me a fresh perspective on many players.

[Xine]

*sigh*

I think boberz might be scum.
I think Bub Bidderskins might be scum.
I think charter might be scum.
I think Cogito Ergo Sum might be scum.
I think DemonHybrid might be scum.
I think Lowell might be scum.
I think Oso might be scum.
I think Slaxx might be scum.
I think WeaponsofMassConstruction might be scum.
I think Xine might be scum.
I think xvart might be scum.

None of the above are lies. I could say all this and be telling the truth every time.

I think boberz is scum.
I think Bub Bidderskins is scum.
I think Xine is scum.

None of these are lies, either. If I replaced any of these 3 names with any other name besides these three, though, I'd be lying.

Scum tend to make fewer definite statements than town - it gives them the ability to back out of their reads.

FoS: CES

Xvart is flying under the radar somewhat also.

Pro-tip: Someone who has been posting a decent amount of content and yet hasn't received much attention in terms of suspicions is probably town.

UNVOTE: Parama

How are those questions going to help us find scum Bub? Honestly?

VOTE: Boberz

[Xine]

I want to see the answers, to those and lots of other questions too, like the onesBoberz was deflecting the answers to.
Slaxx appears to believe I am scum, is this true?

[Xine]

Why are you bandwagoning?
Why do you think he might be scum?
Why are you so concisely difficult?

are the questions I was referring to, and I noticed that CES did manage to not respond to them. I don't like comments/questions that deliberately discourage conversation.
and I may as well ask,
was this:

How are those questions going to help us find scum Bub? Honestly?

an actual question, or is it rhetoric with a question mark? in other words, are you actually hoping for a real answer from bub?

And in regards to the Parama thing, I looked back, and I guess most of the post I was looking at was rhetorical mudslinging, I had been confused. I guess I was misled by the few question marks I noticed. If he felt no response was needed, that's information about him anyway.

[Xine]

I don't really get why xine did not vote for me earlier but did on page 10. I don't see any new case on me. Only a quote of me prodding Bub and an allegation I avoided questions, something that had already been dismissed by Parama. But apart from that I do not see much wrong with Xine. Much of the case comes from supposed scummy links with me but as I am not scum (from my point of view) I dont accept these.

Are you being deliberately dense? go read post 253, I very clearly explained myself. I did not attack you here for avoiding Questions from Parama, but for interfering with a line of questioning from bub to CES. BTW your attack of Xvart is horrible, if there ever was a case on him you have totally destroyed it with your terrible interrogation.

Not crazy about Bub's disappearance
Neutral read on Oso, like to see more of his thoughts
still working on that re-read, been very busy

Slaxx: as far as I remember, your first mention of the idea that I could be scum was when I voted Boberz, and you seem to be 100% convinced of it by now, yet, you didn't say any reasons, ask me any questions, etc,

why not

?

[Xine]

Welcome Socrates, why are you so sure that Parama and Slaxx aren't scum buds?
Parama: If I have this straight, your current case on me is entirely based on Bub buddying to me, is this correct?
I am trying to figure out why scum would kill CES, it seems that it would be easy to rally the town into lynching him, with his active lurking ways... so, who has reason to kill him? His suspect list included myself, Oso, and Boberz. of those 3, Oso actually did make an attempt to lead a wagon on him, and got nowhere, perhaps leading him to believe the opposite of my previously stated hypothesis, and thus choosing him for a night kill? hmmm... too bad this is not something Socrates can respond to. who else has thoughts on the night kill choice?

[Xine]

you guys are funny

[Xine]

At first the Xine wagon was cool, but now its popular so it sucks.

Setup speculation is so totally not a scum tell it's not even funny.

It is a new player tell

, and possibly even a mild town tell in the current site meta.

unvote

You busted me, yup, new...
so, do you all want a claim since I'm at L-1, or should I give it a min?

[Xine]

VOTE: Slaxx

[Xine]

DH vs Socrates; Socrates sheeps Parama, null tell, based on this:

Actually, Socrates has a bad habit of always following my lead, even when I'm scum. See: NY114.
Admittedly, I caught 2 of the 3 scum on the other team in that game so

Anyways, Xine is teh scum.

Besides, He already mentioned it was a placeholder vote.

Back to other stuff:
WOMC tates that my night kill speculation post is compleatly devaoid of content, I guess I need to point out that I was at least hinting that I am suspicious of Socrates. Not enough to place a vote, but I'll be watching him very closely. Weird that he was the one who dropped his vote and defended the nutrality of my statement. I liked his eventual defence of that, But he's on my list.

Why did I vote Slaxx???
Because he soft claimed power role. (Tried to take it back latter,oops) I just don't like that. My vote stays where it is.

At this point Parama is reading town to me, and his free pass to Slaxx to just be scum really buggs. I see he has a reputation for being a good player, But this personal attachment is likely clouding his judgement

[Xine]

No I'm a cop, just a tracker.

[Xine]

No, I did not breadcrumb
I tracked Slaxx, Who didn't go anywhere.

[Xine]

didn't think to
what do you mean?
You soft claimed power role

[Xine]

I thought flavor was the mods job, sorry if I'm being dense, I hate to really admit how new I am, and this has never come up for me before. oh well, being honest and giving my team honest answers/info is more important than looking cool.

[Xine]

Xine, why did you track Slaxx?
What do you think of Slaxx not going anywhere last night, but there still being a kill?
Why didn't you track Boberz or Parama?

I see the town following him, and so I thought that it would be good to get whatever extra info I could about him.
I think that Slaxx did not submit a night kill, and that he is not a power roll
I basically made a coin flip decision between Slaxx and Parama, because IMO Parama is also leading the town.

I went back and forth with myself about what criteria to use for who I tracked, and decided that I would track a strong player, and town leader. Boberz fell shy of that criteria.

[Xine]

I wanted to add, I am not scared to get lynched today, seeing that I am telling the truth will give alot of information for everyone else to use.

[Xine]

A bit out of context, I thought you should all know...
I have a bad back, and I took a perscription mussle relaxer last night at about 7pm
an hour later I posted this:

No I'm a cop, just a tracker.

and some other baddly written posts too...
I think you will find I am not usually so stupid.

[Xine]

Modify it:
In the event that today's lynch flips town, track random.
In the event that today's lynch flips scum, track <playername> or else.

This was what I was thinking myself, glad to see we are on the same page.
I have definitely found Charter's overwhelming desire to lynch pre-claim a bit scummy, especially considering his input when Bub was at L-1, that he was very busy, but takes the time to question the wagon itself. I will do some meta research on him tomorrow, but for now
VOTE: Charter
Socrates continues to make a strong case that I am neutral seems particularly strange to me, and the fact that he quoted Ythill in that argument is definitely extremely odd too. He continues to be my second suspect.
I am intrigued by the Xvart case, and will look into him in iso tomorrow as well.
non game relevant stuff,
Xine=Christine=female, good observation, have you been reading guys part 2?
I don't care personally if anyone thinks I am male, if anyone feels like apologizing for it, do so to DH, who is bothered by it
One more thing, since it's come out that I'm new, I would like to compliment this player group, I am learning a lot from you, thanks

[Xine]

I will look into it,
Soc or Charter, could you maybe post a link to the game you were discussing earlier?
speaking of thinking you may be scum, you seem to have "slipped" twice, but most of your play seems townie, I guess meta reaseach on you should be on my imediate to do list as well. you are my #3 pick at this moment

[Xine]

oops, I fforgot to log in as me...
for isolation purposes:

Charter: I found where you said he was scum and must die, I stand corrected.
Slaxx, clarification please, is your case on Xvart dependent on Oso/Soc being his buddy?

[Xine]

Slaxx, I was checking out Xvart, and I don't see much scum there. But I did notice one of the (2?) places he mentions Bub, is in post #206, where he calls you out for calling Bub town in post #97, then vote him in post #98, I think your response to him was this:

-. Also reread my ISO. That is NOT the way it happened.

So I read your ISO, and, actually it seems like that is exactly what happened. can you explain this?
ps. good catch on him hardly mentioning Bub

I just noticed bub was a roleblocker. tracker claim looks worse.

I really would like to know why, and your post #558 does nothing to explain it to me, please try again

Boberz: If you feel your case on Slaxx was fabricated, why bother with it, the question presented to you was "what do you think of Slaxx?" not, 'can you present a case againt Slaxx?' So, really, what do you think of Slaxx?

[Xine]

In other news, weapons and demon are both town, but only demon earns more coveted "townpoints"... weapons just got lucky his role PM bailed him out.

Role PM?

[Xine]

Slaxx I just read your ISO twice, so will you answer my question, pretty please...

Let me tey again to clarify this, from whoever. the Xvart wagon is based on bub and Xvart not mentioning each other? with likely scum buddy as Socrates. is that the whole case? what else did I miss?
Boberz made a case againt him too, something about being overquiet and wishy washy. Bob, you gonna jump on this wagon?

[Xine]

Lowell: I understand you play a little differently then other people, but is it really against your nature so much to respond to people's direct question's to you? For refusing to even so much as acknowledge that people have asked you questions, I put you on my scum list. Totally cool with a Lowell Lynch today.

Charter: I did some meta research, you have moved from suspect back to neutral

Parama: I think you are town....and, did you ever give a specific example (like a central quote, or a topic summary) of why you decided weapon's is town?

Weapons: I did not like your wall, it seemed deliberately hard to follow...all those quote numbers, and not so much text. scum points

Slaxx: No, I cannot give a solid opinion on Xvart. I have been going round and round with myself over it, and just stays neutral. perhaps If I could find some time to do some meta research on him I could find a real stance. as to your other question, I am addressing scum reads now, my only solid town read is Parama.

Slaxx again: What's up with the AtE "I wanna die" act? first you soft claim power role (then deny it) then say it's to draw a night kill (changing your story again when you have been caught in a lie?) and now you are not waiting for night, you are asking to be lynched today. You feel that people are lining up to hang you (I think 3 people have named you a suspect) and so you decide to throw away a strong player so as to appease this huge mass of people.(??) wtf, this is a terrible strategy. Ok, a miss-lynch could help us get information, but I'd rather hang scum. much as I like playing with you, that's what I need to try to do... so
VOTE: Slaxx

[Xine]

Parama: The thing that made me vote you was your tone, I took it to be defensive. Since then...call it gut, but I haven't seen you do anything I could pin as scummy on you. even your tone has evened out on D2.
I remember to think he is scum whenever I re-read D1, and go back to neutral every time I get to D2
Yes, right now, I see it as a gambit

[Xine]

I will think about my vote... and I will do some more research into Scorates. my gut says I could go with that, but I need to convince my brian to cast a vote. I'll get back to this...
DH, I've played very few games, but in my last one, defensive tone was THE scumtell, we caught the whole team it...(well, that and some other stuff) but I'll keep your advice in mind in future scum hunting.
Slaxx: confused does not need to equal suicidal

[Xine]

It is anti-town, (if you are town) and a clever AtE gambit if you are scum, obv, I am leaning twords the latter right now

Im not softclaiming PR bro..Just sayin I cant wait for you to see my town flip

I didnt intend for that to be a soft claim for PR. Just to say how silly charter is being.

to help refresh your memory
(btw, If anyone wants proof that I am not Ythill, I can provide a link to pictures that Troll posted that should prove that we are seperate people, if you like)

[Xine]

I am leaning twords Xvart=town. still going round and round. I just scanned him in iso in two other games, one he is scum, and one he is town, he reads about the same in both to me (at quick glimps) and same in this game.

[Xine]

The Person I tracked came to see me. Would you like me to say who you are?

[Xine]

Ok, I tracked Demon Hybrid

[Xine]

The reasons I chose DH... He has been flying under the radar so to speak, so I wanted a bit of info on him, and Parama named Him +Soc as the next lynch candidates. I don't remember any particular consensus on tracking soc, just 2 people called for it, I think, which does not grantee a town majority on that decision, and... if he is scum, and expecting the track, then the night kill will simply be delivered by his buddy.
I was obv really hesitant to name DH, figuring that I would just as soon get mis-lynched myself then out him, but I decided to leave it up to him...
most in favor of a Lowell lynch, for active lurking, making really weird comments that need clarification (like his claim), and refusing to answer direct questions.
yes, I too will commit to a re-read
VOTE: Lowell

[Xine]

I would love help with track target, I would like (almost) everybody's imput, so I don't end up taking scum's advice. let's lynch scum today and make it easier.

[Xine]

what does your claim mean?
why does a dead roleblocker make my claim less valid?
why should we believe you are town?

[Xine]

Hi there, for my track, I got Socrates not going anywhere.

[Xine]

DemonHybrid:
-Why did you only ask Charter what he thought of the no kill last night?
-Do you feel hypocritical for the amount of time you spent speculating on last nights no kill?

[Xine]

WOMC: It has been 22 hours since you promised an elaborate opinion on Boberz, I'm still waiting oh so patiently...

Slaxx: Waiting to hear from everybody before finalizing judgments, however, a very simplistic wagon analysis gave me these possible scum teams:
WOMC + Socrates or Boberz + Slaxx

I really want to hear what weapons has on bob, and what Socrates and charter have to say in general.

DH: when I asked if you were feeling hypocritical, I was talking about this:

Xvart's willingness to talk about the nightkill is looking bad. He's also posted significantly less than everyone else.

Vote: Xvart

Seriously, you're starting to talk more and all it does is detract from the scumhunting. Bad dog, no biscuit

[Xine]

When did I say there were 4 scum DH? I think I suggested there were an even number of people meaning odds work for us to nolynch (and I voted so).

7 is an even number?

[Xine]

fun fact.
In iso it is reviled that bub mentioned me 6 times in defending me,
mentioned Boberz 8 times in defending him
pushed suspicion on CES, Parama, Lowell,
and bickered intensely with Slaxx about Boberz. does this mean anything?
Charter: I'm anxious to hear your case on Boberz
WOMC: still waiting to hear you out on Boberz,
Boberz:

[Xine]

Opps, charter promised a case on Weapons, not Bob.
Still want to hear it.
Slaxx=town for now

[Xine]

Cool, I've got DH's oppinion on who to track, today, I want everybody to give an oppinion.

[Xine]

Something just clicked... Soc has been AWOL from this site for days... his last pot was on sep 29, night fell in this game on the 30th. He didn't go anywhere...and there was no kill. suddenly I have a suspicion as to the reason for the no kill, the killer is simply missing (?) Help me out guys, am I on to something here?
VOTE: Socrates

[Xine]

I agree with liking the idea of him getting the chance to defend himself, I don't like the idea of giving his replacement a free pass. as to his play, I will run an iso in a little bit, but I feel like he has been the most shining example of perfect consistancy. He has not to my recolection contradicted himself or acted hypocritical at all. every other player alive right now has. Scum have to be more careful, and because he stand out in that way, I am going with scum read on him. my vote stays, and his 72 hours are up, I am not in favor of waiting on a lynch.

DH, I am inviting argument to that point, and in all honesty the validity of that point is based on a great deal of set up speculation. Do you deny the possablility? Slaxx poited out some set ups that would make my point absolutly accurate

[Xine]

I'll track who I decide tonight, Slaxx gave good advice on that.

[Xine]

I finally ran that Iso on Soc, I couldn't find a single scum tell in it. I have never liked the "too townie" argument, not gonna use it now.
UNVOTE:

I did look into charter as well, Here are some of the scummy things he has done:

Charter: Announces that he doesn’t read full posts if they are too long

Calls for a quick lynch, so as to avoid allowing a claim, on myself and on Xvart
But not on Bub, or Boberz

Appeals to meta to defend himself

Offers town points to anyone who sheeps him on the WOMC wagon

Decides that everyone should pick my track for the night

Is the one who calls for a mass claim on day

I am not placing my vote there yet, I am inviting discussion about these points while I Iso Weapons

[Xine]

thank you for that link DH, I needed that

[Xine]

By that do you mean wait for Soc to come back/get replaced? Because other then Charter voting himself, everyone else seems to agree.

[Xine]

VOTE: Charter
I felt left out there

Slaxx: I won't forget

[Xine]

Hi Oso, welcome back!
little correction, I wasn't on the Bub wagon, and I am still alive. I really like your trancpancy on the Parama vs Bub suspision for day 1 though.

[Xine]

Love it

[Xine]

Weapons, most of your case on me is a string of quotes with little or no commentary on them. most of which I made when under the influence of harsh narcotics, which I explained as soon as my head cleared. bad play=/=scummy play.

[Xine]

well thank you for your FOS's, Slaxx been called up next then,

[Xine]

When night fell last I found myself absolutely most suspicious of slaxx. I had him at my #2 slot all day, but we did lynch my top suspect, poor charter, anyway... I had been saying Slaxx was town all day. I figured that with that publicized town read, and the fact that I tracked him once before that if he were scum he would absolutely deliver the kill, which he did not do last night. Yes, silly as it seems, I tracked Slaxx last night. I knew that if I did not clear him, I would come into today wanting to lynch him. Excluding the fact that nobody is confirmed until they flip, I now consider Slaxx to be confirmed town.

Boberz seems way too confused to be scum, PoE:
Scum=WOMC+Oso

[Xine]

that was fast

[Xine]

One thing I have taken from this game is that nightkill speculation is a good idea. on two different occasions I had Oso/Socrates pegged as scum based on nightkills. once on Boberz too. none of my other scumhunting ideas got me anything good.
this was a cool game, thanks everyone

[Xine]

Would I have even gotten a result on you, being the godfather? If I had and you claimed bogus result, I would have not argued very much, just voted you, and told the town to not be dumb, pretty much. As far as the idea that as scum I would have pulled a no kill, when there was a claimed doctor, is just silly. I can't think of any reason I would do that. but maybe I'll see a different perspective whenever I get the chance to play as scum.

[Xine]

good point nic, I wouldn't have thought of that.
Bob did a good job, and town failed, I just need to learn to trust myself more, I kept second guessing all my good reads, wish me luck on that...