Mini 1046 - Murder in the Desert (Game Over!)

[charter]

Lol.
Parama, you need to take a chill pill. I'm not going to read any posts near as long as that, and it's only page two....

On the scum side, I'd be shocked if at least one of Boberz and Slaxx isn't scum. At this point, I'm leaning towards this being a poorly executed distancing attempt and they're both scum.

I get to post 34. Boberz is definitely scum.

Vote Boberz

Slaxx, you unvoted Boberz, what do you think of him now?


OH MY GOD, ENOUGH WITH THE MASSIVE POINTLESS POSTS.

[charter]

Ah, right. I got you mixed up with Boberz.

[charter]

Lol.
Parama, you need to take a chill pill. I'm not going to read any posts near as long as that, and it's only page two....

On the scum side, I'd be shocked if at least one of Boberz and Slaxx isn't scum. At this point, I'm leaning towards this being a poorly executed distancing attempt and they're both scum.

I get to post 34. Boberz is definitely scum.

Vote Boberz

Slaxx, you unvoted Boberz, what do you think of him now?


OH MY GOD, ENOUGH WITH THE MASSIVE POINTLESS POSTS.

Skimmed back through and this post stood out. The second line in particular seems as if charter's focusing attention away from himself/buddies. Why not boberz/DH or boberz/Parama.

Because they don't have a contrived looking back and forth. Why am I supposed to think one of your scenarios instead of mine? It looks like you're trying to pull something out of thin air here. Why do both of your pairs have Boberz and not Slaxx? Do we have it wrong, and Slaxx is scum and Boberz is not? Else I don't see why you're complaining if I'm voting for Boberz, and he's in both the pairs you listed. Really not seeing the problem.

[charter]

Because they don't have a contrived looking back and forth. Why am I supposed to think one of your scenarios instead of mine? It looks like you're trying to pull something out of thin air here. Why do both of your pairs have Boberz and not Slaxx? Do we have it wrong, and Slaxx is scum and Boberz is not? Else I don't see why you're complaining if I'm voting for Boberz, and he's in both the pairs you listed. Really not seeing the problem.

There was a distinct Boberz vs theme in the first two pages, and Slaxx, Parama, and DH were all participants. Slaxx vs Parama/DH didn't happen so those pairs don't make sense. I'm asking what distinguishes vs Slaxx from vs DH/Parama. If you are referring to the exchange near the beginning of the game, I don't agree it appears made up, but this is more a matter of opinion.

Ok, so to reiterate my other question, why are you complaining that I'm voting Boberz when he's in all the pairs you listed?

Lowell, what do you think of Boberz?

I think I'm gonna

unvote, vote Slaxx

since he's getting scummier with every post very quickly, while Boberz is just getting slightly scummier with his posts. Notable for Slaxx is his unvote of Bub for which I can find no reason while not going anywhere else with his questioning. Then putting Slaxx at L-1 with a terrible reason, but he tried to make it look like it was justified. This is pretty obvious scum here.

I have an opinion on the CES issue, but I'll wait until he posts again.

Weaponz, what do you think of Slaxx?

[charter]

Add "annoying" to my reason for wanting to lynch you.

As far as CES, I was misremembering who said they were suspicious of him, but his wagon targets look good to me.

[charter]

You didn't have good reasons to start out with really. You accused me of echoing everyone else but then did the same in your post.

Even though you didn't respond to the concerns people raised about you that I echoed (which are good reasons, just saying they're bad doesn't make it so), I'll humor you and give you a brand new one.

When called out for putting Boberz at L-1, instead of defending why you voted and put him at L-1, you deflect the questioning with "So you'd rather me vote Someone who hasn't talked but I don't think is scum?". Why didn't you answer the questions? You could have added your pointless comeback to the end of your explanation, so why didn't you explain?




Also, I wasn't misremembering with regards to CES, I was thinking it was Parama who was saying they found him scummy, but it was Bub, who I find scummy because he accuses CES of opportunistic voting, but doesn't mention Slaxx's vote. The double standard here is extreme.

[charter]

Charter, do you still believe in your Slaxx/boberz theory?

It's still in my head, but I'm not thinking it as much as I was before.

Parama, you don't think that Slaxx is scum?

Slaxx, still looking for the answers to

When called out for putting Boberz at L-1, instead of defending why you voted and put him at L-1, you deflect the questioning with "So you'd rather me vote Someone who hasn't talked but I don't think is scum?". Why didn't you answer the questions? You could have added your pointless comeback to the end of your explanation, so why didn't you explain?

[charter]

Slaxx, still looking for the answers to

When called out for putting Boberz at L-1, instead of defending why you voted and put him at L-1, you deflect the questioning with "So you'd rather me vote Someone who hasn't talked but I don't think is scum?". Why didn't you answer the questions? You could have added your pointless comeback to the end of your explanation, so why didn't you explain?

This will probably be at the end of all my posts until Slaxx answers, or people wisen up and lynch him.

[charter]

Charter, what questions are you referring to?

People questioning why you put him at L-1. If no one asked it specifically, I'm asking now (though Lowell mentioned it). Also, how did you go from expressing little/no suspicion of him to putting him at L-1 in the span of one post.

And then, you can explain why instead of explaining to Lowell why you have no problem putting someone at L-1 you came back with your deflection question.

I support this Bub wagon, as well, since his double standard he applies to Slaxx reeks of scumbuddies.

[charter]

unvote, vote Bub

[charter]

I feel like he let CES off the hook pretty easy for a pretty rough bandwagon vote, but then even after I gave some reasoning for my vote he either didnt see it or wasnt satisfied with it.

I'm pretty sure I've started out games as town making posts identical to CES's.


Slaxx, I don't know if you've answered it or not (I can't find it) but what was the reason you put Boberz at L-1 for? From your posts where you voted him, it looked like you thought he was scum, what had you so convinced he was scum to put him at L-1 then? (don't give me any of this crap about 'oh, scum wouldn't quickhammer' because quickhammering as scum is an amazing play). And then, (I also don't see it) but why did you come back with a deflecting question to Lowell's comment about you putting Boberz at L-1?

[charter]

I'm just looking for you to give me (repeat it if you have to) a black and white answer to those questions. I still don't get why you put him at L-1 and even more importantly, when Lowell brought it up, you deflected.

[charter]

Help me out and point to that? I've been going over Bub's posts. Some of them are big and I probably missed something you didn't.

How Bub went off on CES for opportunistic voting right after Slaxx put Boberz at L-1 for essentially no reason and Bub didn't mention that. That's just one reason I'm suspicious of Bub, I'm not muddying the waters with more trivial things though, that's indicative of them being scumbuddies.

[charter]

I really have nothing new to say other than Slaxx and Bub are obvious scum and we need to get crackin' on a lynch.

[charter]

Well, we shall have a nice debate day two then.

[charter]

Been busy, will catchup tomorrow.

[charter]

Has Slaxx expressed suspicion of Bub or is this hammer threat coming out of the blue because it's popular to vote for Bub? I need to check when I get more time.

[charter]

Vote Slaxx

I'll review the Xine case and the boberz one, because I did think boberz was scum way back when, so I'll see if that's still true. But Slaxx is beyond obvscum.

[charter]

Oh wow, I just read Xine's last post, the one right before mine, and holy crap that's a load of obvious NK WIFOMing coming from a scumbag. I'll try and catchup with the rest of day two posts tonight, but I'll have it done by tomorrow for sure.

However, Xine obviously killed CES so he could throw that post out today.

unvote, vote Xine

[charter]

unvote

Still on Xine, but I don't want a hammer before I've read up.

[charter]

Alright, read all of today, not a whole lot that hasn't been said. I'm going to need to reread day one as well to see who out of Weapons, Xine, and Slaxx is going to win the scumbag olympics.

[charter]

That's cool. Scum have power roles too. Claims make up about 0% of why I want to lynch people or not. I'd actually prefer it if no one ever claimed unless they had useful information, or their role can be proven and it proves them to be town since it's so easy for scumbags to make up cool roles they rub all over people's faces and everyone unvotes.

[charter]

Alright, results of my reread.

Early game, Slaxx and Weapons vote for Bub, decent reasons.

I think it's probably unlikely boberz is scum, nothing he's done, but when he's put at L-1 for no reason, Bub ignores it. I would think if Boberz was scum, he would have said something, since he doesn't strike me as experienced enough to play it cool.

Oso is hella scummy with his reads in 123.

Xine's vote of Parama in 145 reeks of scum faking it.

Slaxx actually probably isn't scum. He's giving tons of town reads, all of which I agree with.

Alright, I'm just stopping at page 9, because I'm pretty sure that everyone that isn't Xine, Weapons, or Socrates is town. So I don't really care which of these three we lynch first.

I also don't think I saw Xine or Bub mention each other, pretty big point against Xine.

I didn't read like the last page or two that is known as the BATTLE OF WORDS.
I believe Xine has the most votes, and I believe him and Socrates to be scum quite strongly.

unvote, vote Xine

I'm ready for a hammer, preferably before he can claim so we can avoid the lengthy 'power role claim and discussion of whether we should not lynch obvscum just because he claimed cop'.

[charter]

Yeah, let me start up a tirade about this weaksauce claim. No flavor. No mention of what he did night one. Claims power role when run up. Clearly inventing this to try and save his skin.

Lynch.

[charter]

Definitely do not counterclaim if you're the real tracker.

[charter]

Slaxx, what is the point of this? His claim makes no sense from every possible angle. It's like you're desperately looking for something you can believe about it.

[charter]

Yeah, what do you mean you want more clarification? What about his claim makes the tiniest bit of sense?

[charter]

See this is why obvscum should be hammered without a claim. It'd already be night.

[charter]

Hmmm. I am going through a giant battle of the ages in my head right now.

On the one hand, there's Xine who is very scummy and needs to be lynched. On the other hand, as much as I hate to do it, Xine's tracking could actually be useful, and it might be worth letting him live today since the roleblocker is dead, and he'll either get another result, or best case, soak up a NK. On the third hand, if Xine isn't scum, that throws a big wrench in this game, and the only way to know that is for the mod to post his role, and the sooner we find out he's town, the sooner we can figure out who has been pulling the wool over our eyes.

I might be willing to lynch Weapons instead of Xine, it depends on his answers to these questions.

Xine, why did you track Slaxx?
What do you think of Slaxx not going anywhere last night, but there still being a kill?
Why didn't you track Boberz or Parama?

[charter]

A mafia tracker in a mini normal. Speculate more.

Mafia trackers are in many mini normals. I hope you're not clearing him because of that.

But whatever,

unvote, vote Weapons

[charter]

@charter, do you still think Socrates is also scum?

Yeah

Man, I'm having serious second thoughts about not lynching Xine the more I think about it. The benefit of keeping him alive is extremely small compared to the benefit of lynching him.

[charter]

No, I don't think there's four scum. I think that two of you, Xine, and Socrates is scum. As far as which two, I'm not positive.

But thanks for making the decision to lynch you over Xine a lot easier for me.

[charter]

Charter, you seemed to be sure I was scum, but then you put me up as town really easy just because I gave town reads. Can you explain the sudden 180?

When I reread, the major thing making me think you were scum was how Bub ignored your L-1 vote. Looking back on it now, I think he was just keeping his mouth shut about something that helped him. Other than that, there isn't much, and when you compare it to others, it's relatively little. Also, I noticed how you were naming people as town left and right (there was like three of them) and rereading, I was thinking those people were town as well.

So I guess people think WOMC was bussing when he was the second vote on my Bub wagon?

Yeah, he didn't push Bub much.


Sorry Xine, they got rid of the little male/female symbols, now I can't figure out who's who. I'll try and remember..

[charter]

Also, to add onto the argument;

The benefit of not lynching a CLAIMED TRACKER FAR OUTWEIGHS lynching him/her. It's a ridiculous thought to even do so, especially with the small bit of evidence in her Slaxx vote. It makes sense for her not to be

today's

lynch.

As for now,

Unvote, Vote: WOMC

because I'll support a WOMC or a bobz wagon...but for the love of fuck, guys, can we focus on lynching bobz later?

Letting scum live is never a good idea. The sooner you learn this, the better.

[charter]

I can think of about a dozen reasons why letting a scummy person live just because they claim a power role is a bad idea. The only reasons you're looking for are the ones right in front of your face and on top of that you're assuming she is town. You lynch someone not as scummy. You let her use whatever ability he has. What if she's a godfather and a cop investigates him tonight? And then there's the smackdown of what if she's scum and by some miracle, tomorrow she claims a damning result and we actually lynch that person first?

By letting her live, what do you get tomorrow? "oh, soandso didn't go anywhere last night"

Weapons, the case on you is failure to be town.

[charter]

I also think, if we're letting Xine live, we should decide who she tracks tonight. Assuming a Weapons lynch (regardless of flip) my vote is for Socrates.

[charter]

Who wants to claim the glory for themself?

[charter]

Why is he probably town?

[charter]

If we're not lynching Weapons, it's going to be Xine. When did you pick up on this?

[charter]

Alright, going to reread Weapons v Bub....

unvote

[charter]

I don't lynch people for information. I pushed hard for that lynch because he was scum, his claim was bullshit, and I was sure he was scum. Here, I'm not as sure.

I reread Weapons and Bub. Weapons comes off slightly good, I didn't get much from Bub's posts.

To be honest, Xine and Socrates are the two scummiest. I really think that both of them are scum.

vote xine

[charter]

Ah, I didn't reread him, give me a minute. Who did you think was his buddy?

[charter]

Off the top of my head, I could see Soc and Xvart, since Soc is just being generically scummy.

[charter]

Doing my own little mini case on Xvart..

206, @Slaxx "If Bub is town in this possible scenario then why do you immediately vote him in the next post? Are you voting for someone you think is likely town?" That's incrediscummy seeing as how Bub was scum. He sets up an attack on Slaxx regardless of Bub's alignment. Wondering how I missed that, and now I see his post is like 3000 words so I never read it.

Pretty short case, I think that's the only time he says Bub's name. That's unfortunate for him seeing as Bub was scum.

I also don't see a single mention of him by Bub. I think that's pretty good work Slaxx.

vote Xvart

[charter]

Also, I'm not changing my vote any more today.

[charter]

Anything for me defend against?

Not at the present time.

I could see myself on the Xvart wagon if WOMC has officially stalled.

The Weapons wagon has officially shut down.

but takes the time to question the wagon itself.

No. What I actually said was, Bub was obvscum and needs to be lynched. Then when I was still hung up on Slaxx being scum, I asked if he had expressed suspicion of Bub or was just going to vote him because it was popular. I'd like to see where I questioned the Bub wagon.

I don't have a link to the game we were talking about, I think it was a mini normal modded by Saint Kerrigan, if you want to search for it.

[charter]

oops, I fforgot to log in as me...
for isolation purposes:

Charter: I found where you said he was scum and must die, I stand corrected.
Slaxx, clarification please, is your case on Xvart dependent on Oso/Soc being his buddy?

Sorry, I realized like five minutes after I left for work that the game I described was totally not the game I meant.

[charter]

I found that game, here's (what I assume) Socrates is talking about.

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p1997316

We should be lynching Xvart folks, he's scum.

[charter]

I think we can get Weapons to vote for Xvart, and Socrates if he wants a prayer of not being lynched tomorrow. There will be enough town cred left for one more person, who is going to get it?

[charter]

Ah, I forgot about Boberz. Good stuff.

And yes Xine, that is the gist of the case on Xvart. Not mentioning Bub at all, like he was purposefully avoiding mentioning Bub, which he would only have motivation to do as Bub's scumbuddy.

[charter]

Xvart, surely you can WIFOM better than that.

I thought it was pretty good WIFOM. His post made me about 99% sure he's scum, though.

Scum flailing. hammer. I don't want to hear a claim from him.

[charter]

Here's the deal: I can't talk myself out of this. The fact that there are already people lining up to lynch me tomorrow probably means you're town and they are setting up me as tomorrow's lynch. There is no way to prove this thought ptocess to anyone. Everyone is going to see it as scum backing off of a wagon. That's fine. Its my fault I played that way. But I am not going to just hammer you under these circumstances now. If I'm right, that is two wasted lynches. So instead I am offering myself up today. Just give me a few days to reread the thread.

Who is lining up to lynch you tomorrow? It would be dumb lynching you over Xvart, stop with this nonsense.

Why is Xvart still alive?

[charter]

What I am trying to say is as scum you should have been appealing to me because I was the one who held your fate, but instead you just nonchalantly passed it up and continued to scumhunt and fine connections for tomorrow. If it was fake it was impressive, or maybe I am just that much of a fool.

It was not impressive scumhunting by any measure.

Just to add some more fuel to the Xvart fire, I've played in like two or three games with him, he was town every time, and he didn't play like this at all. I'll try and dig them up...

[charter]

What is the point of that post, other than nothing?

[charter]

See, this is why it would be dumb to lynch you, Slaxx.

[charter]

Yeah, once Xvart flips scum, I think it has to be Weapons.

I don't know if anyone but me noticed, but Weapons's "case" against me actually has zero points that indicate me being scum and contains a lot of quotes of mine that he has added his own two cents to make my statement look bad. There was no explaining why any of the things he quoted would come from scum, which as I'm sure you by now have guessed, is because I am not scum.

[charter]

Your reasoning is wrong because Xvart is scum.

[charter]

Yeah, Lowell looks pretty town to me. Parama and Slaxx, you both are town and know what's up with this game. Vote for Xvart, what are you waiting for?

[charter]

Your game is dumb. What isn't dumb is lynching scum.

[charter]

Xine, what do you think about Xvart?

[charter]

So what makes you think town then. Reasonuhreasonuhreason

That was my next question.

This game is stagnating. Frankly, I'd lynch anyone who has claimed today at this point since this day is dragging on to ridiculous lengths. Of course, I'd prefer Xvart, but that's going pretty damn slow right now.

[charter]

Charter. Does the stagnating game mean we're right or we're wrong?

Usually it means the town is right, since you don't have scumbags fueling the wagon and there's always clueless townies in every game.

[charter]

So you're not going to give us your opinion on what it means when the game is stalling? You're just going to undermine mine?

So obvious Xvart is scum here...

[charter]

I'll still be shocked if Xvart isn't scum, despite his elaborate ploy here.

[charter]

Yeah, this is looking bad for Xine.

[charter]

Vote: Socrates

I am 90% sure him and charter are scum.

I am 100% sure you are wrong.

There's really no way of doing this without megarolefishing, but demon, you need to claim your action, since frankly, I don't see what role you can possibly be that would have targeted Xine last night and you now think she is town, when there's a dead watcher, and Xine is claiming tracker. I would understand if you're a cop, but that seems highly unlikely. Plus, there's the fact that her being tracker has about zero connection with her being town, especially given her night choices are sketch as hell.

To be honest, now that we have claimed tracker, dead watcher, and claimed powerrole, we should just massclaim. The roleblocker is dead, so they can only pick off one person a night, and we don't want scum to be able to fake any actions later on.

Xine, why did you track Demon?

[charter]

I'll go first. Townie.

[charter]

You should name someone to claim next.

[charter]

To be honest, I looked at the first post to see what it said, but I don't think saying townie or vanilla means much in a game like this. Alright, the claim of doc is believable, though I seriously question you choice of Xine. That was a bad target to protect.

Sooo, I think that it's two of boberz, lowell, weapons, and Socrates... It's possible Xine is mafia, but a mafia tracker and roleblocker against just a doctor and watcher seems very unlikely. Time to go reread, YET AGAIN.

Xine, why did you track Demon, that doesn't make much sense. Socrates was the good choice of who to target, which we agreed on yesterday.

Also, just as an aside, Weapons's first post today looks mightily like bussing then tying me to Socrates to mislynch me the next day. I also just went and ISO'ed WEapons, and this jumped out at me.

Okay, so Xine lynch isn't happening? This is rather disappointing.

Which roles are commonly included in a setup with a tracker, or are there any?

And in my opinion, Slaxx's soft claim seems very...calculated.

His fishing question there is pretty megascummy. No one bit, and he later claimed vanilla. I dunno, just seems... Fishy..
Anyway, I want to hear who Lowell and Soc and Boberz are suspicious of before I reread and tell them who I'm suspicious of.

[charter]

If Lowell flips scum, I'd say 100% WOMC.

Yeah, I think if this becomes the case, either we catch weapons making the kill, or we catch Socrates by weapons not making the kill.

[charter]

Yeah, Lowell pushing this Slaxx nonsense reeks of scum backed in to a corner.

vote Lowell

[charter]

Yeah, very obviously weapons and Lowell.

[charter]

I'll catch up tonight.

[charter]

Alright, my take on the no kill, I'm thinking that that means scum were too afraid of drawing a NK, because they essentially gave town another lynch which is an incredibly bad play as scum. Another possibility is that Demon and Xine are both mafia, but I think this is unlikely since scum had a roleblocker, and town having just one powerrole against that is terribly unbalanced. The last possibility I see is that Demon protected Xine and Xine was targeted for a kill. That also seems unlikely.

So, I'm running with number one, and, some extra thinking I have to go with that, is that I HIGHLY doubt that an experienced player would have done that. I think that rules out Socrates. No killing as mafia is really a terrible play, even getting caught making the kill is better than no killing. (I understand how it looks like I'm trying to rule myself out using this, but that won't be the case)

I typed all that up before getting to your questions, Demon, but I think that covers them anyhow.

So, that leaves me with Boberz and Weapons. I think I'm gonna be voting Weapons, but I want to back that up with a good case first.

[charter]

Plus, another thing that supports my theory that the scum are inexperienced is killing CES night one, that made no sense.

[charter]

Where was that? I don't remember it.

[charter]

However, charter, you also contradicted yourself a little, so I'm keeping an eye on you. You said that the probability is that scum no-killed, but it's a "bad play". However, you said that this cleared Soc. If we publicly declared to track WOMC or Soc, then don't you think that doesn't change the situation regardless?

I don't think so. If scum didn't kill last night, there's really two explanations. They either aren't worried about being lynched one bit or they were afraid of being tracked. I think the first option is a Demon/Xine scumteam, but even then, no killing makes zero sense, since you could have just killed, and then framed someone else for it. So I'm going with the second option. Even knowing you stand a chance of being tracked, they still had to kill. Now what they've done is given town another lynch. So now what we're looking at is Slaxx/Xine/Demon for town and Charter/Boberz/Socrates/Weapons for unknown. One of us four is going to get lynched, and they're going to have to NK tonight, or else they give us another free lynch, and leave the two scums as the only ones left. I think that if we lynch correctly today, then town is guaranteed to win, but I have to think it out some more.

Anyway, I have a little more to say on that, but I gotta run to work. I'll make a case on Weapons after work as well.

[charter]

Also, join date is relatively independent to experience. However, I didn't actually look at Boberz's experience, and I see he's about the same as Socrates, I just remember playing in a bunch of games with Socrates and never seen Boberz before.

Regardless, I don't think an experienced scumbag would have no killed and given the town another lynch. Even if you get caught, the reward is worth the risk. To continue what I was saying earlier, I think you have to kill as scum in the situation that was last night. I also think they had to kill Xine. Even if you get tracked making the kill, the game would go down to:
night three - kill Xine
day four - lynch a scumbag
night four - kill Demon
day four, you're left with Slaxx and three of Charter, Weapons, Socrates, Boberz, so you're scum and you've successfully made it to LYLO and now you just need to finagle one more lynch to win.

What actually happened was this
night three - no kill
day four - lynch one of Charter, Weapons, Socrates, Boberz - (50% chance of hitting scum, 66% chance for the two townies in this group)
night five - the mafia is in the same position. If scum got lynched day four, then they are finished, if not, it's the exact same scenario for them as night three, except that there's an even higher chance of them getting tracked.
day five - would be LYLO, so town would have to lynch correctly. If demon tracked someone making a kill, it's game for town.

So basically by no killing, they just increased the chance they will get lynched since they gave town another lynch.

As such, I think Weapons is likely to be scum who was afraid of being tracked. Case coming soon.

[charter]

And this is all aside from the gigantic benefit of if one scum got tracked last night while the other made the kill. That probably would have been game winning for them. But I don't think they thought of that.

[charter]

Clearly he's been waiting a while.

I think you were worried, especially after your hammer fiasco, where you basically flat out refused, then someone told you to, and you immediately did.

[charter]

Can you just summarize why you thought he was town one more time?

*grumbles*

I felt a very strong town energy emanating from Lowell's spot at the bar. Translation: gut; also self-confidence read in Lowell.

So why did you hammer him then? It clearly wasn't that "very strong".

[charter]

I mean, reread page 37. Demon highlights your wishywashiness, then you make the ridiculous post of wanting to wait 12 days for a no lynch, then you turn right around and hammer Lowell.

[charter]

Alright, why I think it's Weapons.
Early posts, he subtly defends Boberz some, with his calling Boberz frustrated town with pretty much no justification and questioning me when I vote Boberz.
Also, Weapons was voting Bub from like his first post and didn't mention him again until after he got hammered, so it looks a bit like early distancing gone awry. That's another thing that had me thinking about the Bub selfhammer. I don't think he would have done it unless he thought it was going to buy his buddies town cred.

Starts out day two voting Boberz, but then switches to Xine when the wind starts blowing in her direction.

Then he spends a lot of time day two arguing for a Socrates lynch, the whole time his vote is on Xine and he has done ZERO scumhunting directed at Xine. He just hopped on the wagon and then starts slinging mud at others. It looked like he just wanted to lynch Xine, not that he thought she was scum.

Then there's his megarolefish post, post 474.

Pretty much my vote on him boils down to not doing anything day one. Not doing anything day two, but go with the flow. Day three, does nothing then votes Lowell even though he's sure Lowell is town (which I find extremely difficult for him to be thinking, even more so when you factor in his alleged reasons for thinking it).

Vote Weapons

[charter]

If Weapons was town, then that means it's Boberz and Socrates.

[charter]

Needless to say his defense does nothing to make me think he's town.

[charter]

Yeah, it's looking a lot like Boberz and Weapons. That's got to be the worst reason I've ever heard for not finding someone suspicious. Almost like it's fake.

[charter]

Yeah, in the unlikely event Weapons is town, we don't want a planned tracking.

Now, if Weapons is scum, my vote is track Boberz, though I don't think it will matter who you track at that point (though still track one of Charter/Boberz/Socrates).

[charter]

though still track one of Charter/Boberz/Socrates

You claimed VT. Why are you saying to keep yourself as a track possibility?

Well I thought I was suspected? I thought that us three (and weapons) form the pool of people that are potential scum and track candidates.

[charter]

How does any of those benefit me more as scum than as town?

How does being on every major wagon make me scum either? Pretty sure I'm not the only one who's done it, so that's a bad reason to vote me for.

[charter]

What the hell?
You lynch me without giving a case, without letting me defend myself? Y'all are dumb.

Anyway, pretty sure it's Boberz and Weapons.

[charter]

Blah. Good work scum. Town pretty much imploded after the Bub lynch.

[charter]

You did a great job modding. That doesn't get said very often anymore, either.

[charter]

I actually thought long and hard about why you self hammered. I thought for sure it had to be because you were happy how the day went, and you were cementing one of your buddies in a town spot with some distancing, which pointed me to boberz. In the end I just chalked it up to you being a noob cracking under pressure. Oh well.