Mini 1082 (Guns and Ropes: Midland): An Unfaithful Ending.

[LimMePls]

/confirm

[LimMePls]

Vote: MacavityLock

Cause 'impin aint easy.

[LimMePls]

LOL at the "lynch LMP cause he sucks as town and is good as scum".

[LimMePls]

I NO RITE!?

[LimMePls]

I NO RITE!?

I like you, you seem like my type of friend. But seriously, why do you think you have such a poor town record and a good scum record?

I'd like to say it's all the rest of the town's fault, that I'm awesome and they sucked, and that's why we lost. So I'll just say that.

...

...

...

In all seriousness though, feel free to look at my wiki. It has links to all my games as well as a brief synopsis of my take on the game. There are a number of them that I say we should have won, but town just made some crucial mistakes. One in particular (paradise mafia) I got played pretty hardcore by the scum.

The fact is, when playing town, the individual player's abilities matter far less than when playing scum, since the individual is a smaller portion of the population of town than scum is of the scum team. Also good town players tend to end up dead early.

For examples of really good town play on my part, look at Clash of Kings, Mafia vs Werewolves, Vengeance NV newbie, and Ghostbusters, For some of my less than stellar games town play, check out Everybody's a Critic, and Paradise Mafia.

@moose: How much should a players win/loss ratio (town or scum) factor into a decision to lynch that player? Why?

Jimfinn's reaction to charter threw up a red flag, but I'm willing to let it slide for now.

Why are you willing to let it slide for now?

[LimMePls]

Do you have anything to say about the jimfinn/charter/Mizzy/Enigma thing?

Shhhh. I'm scum hunting.

[LimMePls]

LMP has been ignoring most of everything, and it really stands out that he has no comment on these two.

So far you're the only person who has chosen to interpret my criticism of Rabies as a defense of Enigma. Why single out LMP when no one else has commented about it either?

I think Macavity is interpreting it similar to myself, and I singled LMP because he hasn't mentioned Enigma at all (which most people have) and hasn't mentioned you, which is bad for him, since you're scum.

What are you smoking? I just asked him a question to probe him on this specific issue. How on earth is that not mentioning him?

I think gonnano is an excellent wagon, because this:

Because a.) he's already getting pressure for it from other people and b.) I need to see more of his posting style before I can make a judgment call on whether or not it was scummy for him to say that.

is a terrible response to my question.

@gonnano: Is there such a thing as too much pressure? If you want to see more of his posting style, shouldn't you apply MORE pressure?

I haven't commented on the Enigma business because it looks silly to me.

[LimMePls]

LynchMePls, I see that you called the gonnano wagon "excellent." However, your vote is still on MacCavityLock, for reasons not apparent to me. Care to explain?

Oversight. I thought I voted in that post.

Unvote
Vote: gonnano

[LimMePls]

@moose: How much should a players win/loss ratio (town or scum) factor into a decision to lynch that player? Why?

@moose: Your last two posts are lacking a response to this. I'd like one please.

What about it looks silly to you? Do you know what Enigma thinks about anyone in this game?

Enigma, I have to say I'm not fond of your responses. I can see a glimmer of why you have zero town wins.

*scoff* "I can't help the fact that I never win as town." Yes you can. This comes off as absolving yourself of any responsibility for scumhunting.

These are the silly points. All this stuff about how many wins someone has and why that should be cause for a lynch is nonsense. I find the stuff about the jimfinn bandwagon vote more compelling.

[LimMePls]

@moose: How much should a players win/loss ratio (town or scum) factor into a decision to lynch that player? Why?

@moose: Your last two posts are lacking a response to this. I'd like one please.

ANSWER OR BE LYNCHED.

jimfinn is an idiot. S or V though, that is the question.

[LimMePls]

Unvote
Vote: moose

The constant refusal to answer the question asked 3+ times is scummy.

[LimMePls]

That was a serious question? I was working on scum hunting, and I answered the question later about Enigma. What exactly did you want?

[LimMePls]

I was trying to get in your state of mind at the time. If you answered already, point me to the answer and I'll switch my vote back.

My state of mind was "I'm trying to find scum, don't bother me with your useless question".

[LimMePls]

moose's post seems to match up pretty well with the scumtell you describe in the quoted post (it didn't look like he made much of an attempt to hide it, either). Care to tell us why he didn't get even so much as an FoS from you? Or do your scumtells just not apply to people on your team?

I would rather

let other people

take care of lynching the VI. Honestly, it's going to happen eventually anyway because we can't afford to have him in the endgame, so I'm not going to waste my time with it while there are substantial things to talk about.

Reads: "I don't want to be on a mislynch".

Unvote
Vote: gonnano

@moose: Please answer my question. Why are you being so obstinate about it?

[LimMePls]

The fact that the game seems tunneled on moose is quite disappointing and will make looking for

scum teams

hard. I fell scum are using it as an opportunity to stay out of the spotlight and gain some town credit by attempting to scum hunt on some of the easier targets.

Why do you think we should be looking for scum teams (plural)?

FOS: Enigma

[LimMePls]

The fact that the game seems tunneled on moose is quite disappointing and will make looking for

scum teams

hard. I fell scum are using it as an opportunity to stay out of the spotlight and gain some town credit by attempting to scum hunt on some of the easier targets.

Why do you think we should be looking for scum teams (plural)?

FOS: Enigma

Why do you think looking for scum teams (plural) is much of a problem other than balance?

FoS: LynchMePls

Because someone who posts showing that they have information that makes multiple teams more likely in a mini, reads like inside information that would only come from scum. Am I insane, or is this not simply obvious? How would enigma know that there are multiple scum teams?

[LimMePls]

Well, a second team is technically possible. It's just extremely rare. I'm actually starting to see some good (read:scum) connections here between Moose and LMP.

Yes its rare, that's the whole point. Why would enigma say teams when multiple teams in a 12 man game is rare? That's the whole point! It looks like inside information.

Your Moose/LMP scum team theory is hilarious. Do you plan on actually contributing to this game, or popping in every 48 hours to make idiotic statements?

[LimMePls]

Cause he is the obvious scum's mislynch-of-the-day (TM). The only reason I voted him in the first place was his refusal to answer my question, trying to force him into answering. I still don't know why he wouldn't answer, but he's clearly VI (it's truth moose, deal with it) and I think there are better uses of our lynch.

[LimMePls]

That's in no way what I meant and it's pretty obvious to any non illiterate reader. The fact that you are purposely misrepresenting just one word of my entire essay is horribly scummy. All I see from you is just trying to convince more people to change their opinions of me to make me the scum mislynch of the dayTM since there are already a few people voting me.

I beg your pardon? If that isn't what you meant, then please explain what you meant. It looked pretty clear to me.

[LimMePls]

I have never one time seen the words "scum team" used to mean anything other than a full faction. When someone posts "scum team(s)" on D1, there is the possibility that they are posting with inside information. I dunno how I was supposed to see anything else. I HAVE caught scum using a similar tell in reverse, although I can't link the game, it is ongoing. If I see someone making statements that looks to have inside information on D1, you better believe I'm calling it out.

Call me scumbag all you want, it doesn't make my observation scummy, and it surely doesn't make me scum.

[LimMePls]

I don't get how my "mix up" is a) anyway my fault (as 'scum team' has only ever had 1 meaning I've seen) or b) scummy.

[LimMePls]

^^So you are voting him to hope it will improve his play?

[LimMePls]

My reason for voting LMP is that LMP made a case on Gonanno without voting him, which certainly made me feel like he was trying to act useful but not willing to apply pressure, a stance more useful to scum than to town. In other words, I found the case without vote suspicious moreso than having anything to do with who it was on.

How is making a case but not voting "not willing to apply pressure"? Isn't making a case applying pressure? Surely you understand how absurd that sounds. Regardless, when I was asked about it, I admitted that there not being a vote was an oversight. Why is my response that it was an oversight, followed by correcting the oversight, not a valid response?

Your vote on me makes no sense.

[LimMePls]

My reason for voting LMP is that LMP made a case on Gonanno without voting him, which certainly made me feel like he was trying to act useful but not willing to apply pressure, a stance more useful to scum than to town. In other words, I found the case without vote suspicious moreso than having anything to do with who it was on.

How is making a case but not voting "not willing to apply pressure"? Isn't making a case applying pressure? Surely you understand how absurd that sounds. Regardless, when I was asked about it, I admitted that there not being a vote was an oversight. Why is my response that it was an oversight, followed by correcting the oversight, not a valid response?

Your vote on me makes no sense.

@jimfinn you have posted since I asked these questions and have not answered them. Do not avoid them.

[LimMePls]

I'd also like to know why it's a "witch hunt".

Pro's "might as well" bugs me too. Those sorts of statements accompanied with a vote always look like someone who is trying to discredit their own vote.

[LimMePls]

Pro is probably scum. Gonnano is still a good lynch.

Someone hammer.

[LimMePls]

I think he is suggesting you're PZ's partner.

Gonnano should be lynched. We're at under 24 hours to deadline, and he claimed VT. Wagonning another player to a claim, plus risking a no lynch is bad, plus we'd just have to go round and round again tomorrow about Gonnano being scum. Those who are derailing this wagon are scummy.

[LimMePls]

Vote: jimfinn

Best place to start the day.

[LimMePls]

Back from Turkey Day. Hope everyone else enjoyed it as much as I did. This game has gotten the short end of my short time for mafia games, so I'll be doing a catchup post ASAP (like now-ish).

[LimMePls]

You're going to vote before anyone chimes in with a guilty or other interesting night actions?

Yup. I've noticed that you still haven't voted today. What's the hold up?

No, this is a terrible idea. This is WIFOM that those roles even exist in the game. This only reeks of rolefishing and scum. I am going to again return my vote here.

VOTE:Moose

I also approve of Enigma's case on PZ.

RBT is a good wagon too.

In retrospect I should've gone with my original gut feeling and just stayed the hell away from the gonnano thing instead of being my honest wishywashy self, but hindsight is what it is. Bad play on my part, and if you think it's a scum tell there's probably not much I can do to change your mind.

This line of thought looks like it comes from scum. "I should have stayed away..." is overly concerned with how others view you. Trying to lower your own culpability in the mislynch is scumtastic.

Same as yesterday. Active lurking, did a halfhearted case on LMP, nothing much else to report. Keeps up the active lurking today by making of post with nothing but theory. Scummier than most.

I like PZ/jimfinn scum team.

@Everyone who agrees with this: Since Enigma isn't the first to bring this up and no one seems to bother explaining themselves further, I'll just go right ahead and admit that I don't understand what it is that you are accusing me of. Not reacting to all answers? As you say, I ask a lot of questions. A scatter shot approach, if you would, ask away and see if any answers looks off. Often this is about motives and reasons, and to look at reactions. What exactly do you expect of me? If I don't arrive at any conclusions [I assume you mean "post any conclusions"], it's because I - surprise - don't arrive at any conclusions. Am I supposed to clutter up the thread with quote blocks and "oh I see" or "fair enough"? Is it because I sometimes don't acknowledge/remind people of missed questions? Sometimes I'm satisfied with what people post elsewhere, sometimes I take their silence as their response (depends a bit on what kind of question it was, not all of them are stellar after all and sometimes I stop being interested in the answer). Is this about not all of my questions being super serious? I'm not always super serious.

Asking a lot of questions with a "scatter-shot" approach and not following up on the answers seems like the ideal way scum want to "scum hunt". Lots of "questions" so they can go "see, I was hunting scum, look at all my questions" without any actual intent to find the scum. It's definitely scummy. Your attempt to defend the behavior is fail.

Yeah, I forgot how badly people react to "honestly I don't know it can go either way" around here. Serves me right for answering questions honestly and quickly instead of taking my time to perfect an answer I guess? It sucks if people can use it as an excuse to lynch me, but it is what it is.

Yes it is what it is, a chance for you to sit the sidelines and only make a decision when you have to. Which is scummy.

1) You are doing no scumhunting, and literally asking others to do it for you.
2) You are attempting to out a cop, assuming they investigated someone last night.
3) Good cops breadcrumb their results, not outright claim them. Losing a cop for 1:1 is why SCUM claim cop, not why cops out themselves.

Cops leave their votes on guilty results quite frequently, and only change for deadline lynches.

RBT's points against moose all seem safe to me. This post seems designed to appear participating by attacking an easy target (the VI).

Any idiot can scum hunt, or pretend to.

QFT. It's intent we need to be looking at, not actions.

Charter's 399 is win.

Oh, for FSM's sake. I'm entertaining the idea of lynching MOOSE, not RBT. Moose is the "he" in all of that. Furthermore, I'm not pushing for a PL, I said I needed to think about it, and I think you should too. I don't think we should completely ignore him.

@Enigma: Fair point about the conversation not really belonging here, but if you see it as a point against me I want to defend myself. This will be my last word on the subject, I think: You think scum can fake scum hunting, I think they (or at least many enough to make it a point) can't fake it completely. Either way, I think more content = more chances to slip up = good for town. Yes there will be skilled scum, but I don't think I ever said that the amount of scum hunting a person does is the only thing you should take into consideration. Think of it like this: No scum hunting = bad; moderate amount of scum hunting = what is or should be expected = null tell; lots of scum hunting (or content in general) = more chances for scum to slip up. The more you have to go on from earlier days, the more you can find out on later days after a few flips.

Again, it's still just one part of the puzzle.

FWIW this whole exchange makes me think you lean town.

1) You're not pushing for a PL on moose, but you "need to think about it"? This is you trying to backtrack out of your obviously bad position of PL on moose. I'm not falling for it.
2) The theory discussion is fruitless and should end in favor of discussing issues relevant to the game.
3) The buddy attempt is noted.

Time for a scum-town meter.

TOWN
charter
MacavityLock
Enigma
Rabies
moose
Mizzy
Riceballtail
jimfinn
ProkhorZakharov
SCUM

On that note:

Unvote
Vote: ProkhorZakharov

L-2.

[LimMePls]

Push for a policy lynch? I haven't suggested anything of the sort!

I've never been much for policy lynching, but I've never played with moose, either. I brought up the subject for discussion yes, and if you consider that to be enough to qualify to pushing for his lynch then so be it.

So were you not suggesting a PL, or were you? Cause these two statements are mutually exclusive. Nice slip, dimwit.

[LimMePls]

418 is pedantic weasel wording that tries to backtrack what you were doing. Trying to cloud the issue by arguing "discussing something" versus "pushing for something" is hilarious. Do you often play devil's advocate in mafia? Because when I see people bring a topic up for discussion, I tend to assume its because they want to push that topic one way or the other.

So you're either filling the thread with useless chatter and non-committal stances in an attempt to look town or you're backtracking from your policy lynch talk once you realized it wasn't going anywhere. Either option makes you scum.

[LimMePls]

Mizzy is obviously scum, but it's because of her total ignoring of PZ and Jimfinn, not for being Moose's buddy.

This.

[LimMePls]

Also, all this lurking has had a seriously negative impact on a seriously awesome wagon. I love how PZ has completely vanished once the heat on him has started losing steam.

I'm pretty sure we can win this game by lynching in the following order:

PZ
Jimfinn
Mizzy

[LimMePls]

gonnano (7): moose200x, LynchMePls, charter, Riceballtail, StrangerCoug, Rabies, jimfinn

No offense, but I think LMP and charter can't be trusted because their scumdar is clearly broken.

I agree with a jim lynch but would prefer to see Rice strung up.

<joke>Also, my name is Tammy so I am clearly Coug's wife and therefor innocent. <3 </joke>

So if I did end up having a misread, that means I can't be trusted? Explain this please.

[LimMePls]

That's funny, I think it is excellent town play.

[LimMePls]

@LMP Is there a thought behind the particular order you want to lynch me, jimfinn and mizzy? Do you think there's any additional information to be gained in lynching that way over another?

The likelihood of each player being scum. Isn't this obvious?

PZ is an awesome lynch, I seriously don't know what the hold up is.

[LimMePls]

Wait, so jimfinn's numerous interactions with PZ will give us information about PZ, but those same interactions won't give us information about jimfinn when PZ flips? Why? Specific examples would be great.

Sorry, still no vote and yet more questions. Of everyone in the game I'm closest to voting jimfinn but it depends on how he explains himself.

This right here is further proof that PZ is scum. He still won't commit to a vote, and even if he did, it's only on the competing wagon, and is therefore completely meaningless. Of course he'd vote jimfinn, it's jimfinn or bust. Yet even when faced with that situation, he won't actually vote him.

I also can't believe that people let him get away with that "I'm at L-1, but I'm not claiming" business. Now he's had all the time in the world to cook up a good fake claim.

[LimMePls]

But why couldn't we infer when PZ flips scum that jimfinn is his buddy based on the same interaction (that is that jimfinn has said almost nothing about PZ until PZ was brought to near lynch). In other words, I agree that there is a connection there, but I don't see how either one is contingent solely on the other.

Based solely on play, do you believe jimfinn's is worse than PZ's?

[LimMePls]

Six days to deadline, we need to start coming to some form of consensus.

Those that are not voting PZ or jimfinn need to either make a very compelling case for their vote, or get on board one of these wagons. Those that are "not voting" are absolutely doing it wrong.

@moose: At the start of the day, when I threw my vote down, you asked "aren't you going to wait to see if the cop claims?" Obviously we're not getting a cop claim. Why are you still not voting?

@PZ: The longer you sit around twiddling your thumbs the better I feel about my vote. You better do something now if you want to convince myself and others that you are not scum. Not voting is about the worst thing you could be doing right now. It's making me feel really good about my vote.

@RBT: People obviously don't agree with you. What good do you think your vote is doing right now?

[LimMePls]

I've never really followed the logic of no lynching in MYLO. It seems to me like it would be worse than lynching today, since all tomorrow will be is the same as today minus a townie. What exactly is the purpose of no lynching in MYLO?

[LimMePls]

Its more likely we will hit a scum. If we mislynch today we lose. Less likely we will mislynch tomorrow in MYLO.
Also we can gain some knowledge from PR's and nightkills.

Ok, giving PRs another night of actions explains it to me. The argument of "less likely to mislynch" isn't very persuasive to me.

Vote: No Lynch

@moose: Then why didn't you vote for No Lynch?

[LimMePls]

Who hasn't checked in? Just Mac?

Once everyone has posted someone hammer NL.

[LimMePls]

Massclaim is absolutely the right move. Popcorn style, and I second the nomination of Jimfinn going first.

We have valuable information available in a no kill happening, but we need to know what roles we have to gain that information.

[LimMePls]

Vote: Massclaim

We need to weigh pros and cons to both

Tbh I'd rather have cop out his clears than a massclaim

You're doing it wrong. Mac is absolutely right.

[LimMePls]

Why is that wrong?

with little to no commentary.

If 4 people put down No Lynch, we will automatically go to night with

little to no information leak,

as long as

everyone plays along.

It's really simple. Just vote No Lynch or Mass Claim. If enough people vote No Lynch, we go to night giving the scum as little info as possible. If enough people vote Massclaim, we start the massclaim.

[LimMePls]

I might have bought that VT softclaim-gambit from jimfinn if he hadn't asked Enigma (a softclaimed role) to go next in the popcorn chain. I'll reserve final thoughts/judgment until after the claim, but jimfinn just bought himself a ticket straight to the front of the line.

[LimMePls]

DH, who do you want to claim next? I haven't gone. Am I the only one left?

[LimMePls]

I can't see the full pages, there is some sort of error with the website. So there are some posts I haven't read yet.

I'm VT. I don't think anyone is left unclaimed. If there is, then I choose that person to go next.

[LimMePls]

jimfinn's faux doc gambit + asking a softclaimed role to claim early in the mass claim makes me feel pretty confidant he's scum.

Vote: jimfinn

[LimMePls]

Prodding me for not posting while a massclaim is going on? Really?

Jimfinn is scum. This is all he's got after the prod, even though there are multiple important points against him. I think it's possible that RBT is his buddy, I agree with Enigma that RBT's claim is very convenient. Especially him tracking moose nowhere, but still ridding him hard. Wouldn't you at least question your scum read if you tracked them nowhere? I know it isn't an innocent result, but it seems like you'd at least lose some suspicion.

Town-Scum scale:

TOWN
Enigma
DemonHybrid
MacavityLock
Riceballtail
moose200x
RobCapone
jimfinn
SCUM

[LimMePls]

???

[LimMePls]

Let's see if Mizzy breadcrumbed a protect on me. If not, I'm probably gonna LaL.

[LimMePls]

I don't find a:

1) Doc crumb
2) Crumb to targetting me

Anywhere in Mizzy's ISO. I do see this:

Actually, I have been working every night late this past week and had

medical appointments for post-surgery follow-ups

during what free time I had. Since I get PM notifications in email, it is rather easy for me to respond to the prod and not post until I have the time to do so. I am reading through from where I left off and hope to have a substantial post around this weekend. Shame on you, charter, for pointing fingers when you know me better than that.

But I don't think it was a crumb, I think Mizzy was serious about going to the doctor, since this was in response to questions about Mizzy's activity.

[LimMePls]

Lynch All Liars. Look it up:

http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?tit ... _All_Liars

Not for the "to make them learn to play better" aspect of it, so much as you were already really scummy looking, and when you started getting pressure, suddenly you're a doc who didn't claim doc during massclaim.

I'm not buying it.

[LimMePls]

And I would like examples of my so called scummy play cause you are full of shit

You got it. You're not near the top of my scumlist for nothing.

/confirming my replacement in the game

reading through I don't get why we did not lynch Jim he definitly seemed more like scum than PZ did.

If Jim is scum, you're his buddy for this post. And I'm pretty sure jim is scum.

And wow at wanting to give PRs another night when you haven't even allowed everyone still slice to speak yet, what if the PR hasn't even posted yet and has a guilty.

Rushing to NL without allowing any discussion is bad for town and good for mafia.

Nice fishing. This quote is particularly telling if you really are a doc.

This

If cop had guilty and we rush to NL before he outs it that is fucking retarded

It's not role fishing to wait for all people alive to post in this day phase

Even if they just post HI

More fishing.

Than you are retarded cause how you can go from nothing to role fishing is stupid

I don't care if it's mylo, if a cop has a guilty we need to discuss, not even letting people post in a day phase is an attempt to PREVENT the cop to report if he has a guilty

That's not role fishing cause I'm not asking anyone to claim anything

I have no objections to no lynch, but we do not end the day until everyone has posted

P. Edit - just cause you call someone scum makes it true, tbh your behavior is more scummy

More more fishing. Also, this is one of those easy arguments to make as scum, since you get to try and look all pro-town "I just want us to have the information" without actually having to hunt scum.

yes cop should out his results so we can narrow down the list of suspects

More fishing.

Fair enough but I find it hard to beleive somebody soft claims doc would be left alive this stage in the game, plus the way he said it seemed more of a joke to me

You thought he was "joking" when he was softclaiming the doc? And you expect us to believe you are the doc?

The no lynch without any clear PRs was wrong yet nobody spoke out about it but me

This is scummy considering that you voted for the no lynch yourself. A) Why was the no lynch bad, regardless of clear PRs? B) If it was wrong, why did you vote for it?

Tbh I'd rather have cop out his clears than a massclaim

vote: massclaim

o.O So, you continually pushed for cop to claim, and even voted for the massclaim, but when your turn came, you want us to believe you lied with your part of the massclaim?

Actually lynching ML is better

Suggesting Massclaim benefits scum, I only voted massclaim cause the option was that or NL and I was against the first one, wasn't going to do it again

Here you act like you are trying to lessen your own part to play in the massclaim. I think the real reason you voted massclaim is because it was clear massclaim was what we were going to do, and you wanted to blend with the town. Also to note is your statement that ML is a better lynch, yet you claim you protected him. Presumably you protect people you have a town read on, so why were you calling for his lynch now?

looking back at games I played where I normally play we almost never mass claim, and the only game I could find it was scum who suggested it, so my experience with mass claiming isn't that good.

anyway I am just a vanilla townie

Aside from you now admitting that you lied about your claim, here you are disavowing massclaims, when YOU YOURSELF VOTED FOR IT. Add that to all your claim fishing, and the whole thing absolutely STINKS.

well it seems that if you said enigma did nothing night 2, he was probably role blocked also but I still want him to out who his target was.

You know that you are a doc, and yet when enigma says his shot didn't work, your assumption is that he was roleblocked? Really?

because whenever somebody i think is scum claims a town power role I am not likely to believe them, I think rbt is scum so i don't believe his claim but we have nothing else to go on and I am not lynching him since there is no counter-claim

Your attempt to tar RBT is interesting, especially considering your constant please that an investigative role claim its results. So you seem to know in advance that there must be an investigative role, but he claims investigation, and you say you don't believe him. However, you seem to realize that suggesting we lynch RBT would be stupid, so you throw in a "I am not lynching him since there is no counter-claim". SCUMTASTIC.

and macavity there is no way anyone can convince anyone else that they are town, if you are town you shoudn't be worried about trying to convince anyone else of it, your actions throughout the game should be what convinces people.

Vote: macavity

I think he is one of the scum

Thanks for claiming scum. Why is this so scummy? Here are the posts you've made that all suggest you think jimfinn is scum:

reading through I don't get why we did not lynch Jim he definitly seemed more like scum than PZ did.

anyways I feel we can safely lynch Jim and probably rice as those two are obvious scum

Lol at Jim

if you truly are town, there is no need to have the soft-claim roles to go first.

you were chosen cause your claim seemed sketchy, most people feel enigma is pro-town so choosing him was bad move in my opinion, that being said

With all of that, you also claim now that you protected Mac on night 2, but today you don't want jimfinn lynched, you want Mac!?!? That is ludicrous! With all your "suspicions" of jimfinn, you hadn't voted him until after I did (see below), and it looked like that was the way things were heading. And only after you first voted Mac and pushed for his lynch which was both A) Nonsensical and B) Unbelievable considering you doc protected him on N2.

Does not compute.

the most unbelievable claim here is the vig claim and I find it highly unlikely we don't have a protective role especially if this setup since this setup was revwied

Anyone else get the feeling that RobCapone's doc claim was spawned at this point? Like maybe the scum realized that the claimed roles don't add up or something? Also, how on EARTH was his vig claim unbelievable, when you know you doc protected the person he claims to have shot on N2.

and if you meant governor instead of commuter, that still isn't a protective role

Governor is DEFINITELY a protective role. It protects against a mislynch.

Vote: jim

he definitely is fishy

Nice bus.

also enigma, I am the one saying rbt is probably lying so how does that make me partners with him?

Nice WIFOM.

Add on to all of this Mizzy's sketchy play, and complete absence of any breadcrumb to Doc role, and I call BS.

Unvote
Vote: RobCapone

Die scum.

@Enigma: I'm starting to think jimfinn/RobCapone/RBT is a definite possibility. Thoughts?

[LimMePls]

Then why did you claim it now? You can't choose to not claim it in massclaim, and then expect us to not lynch you by claiming doc. That is stupid. Every scum in the universe would do that if it worked that way.

WE MASSCLAIMED BECAUSE IF WE MISLYNCH WE LOSE. SO WE WANTED ALL THE INFORMATION POSSIBLE. THIS INCLUDES THE EXISTANCE/NON-EXISTANCE OF DOCS.

Now you can protest your innocence all you want, but we all already know you'll say anything to stay alive.

I'd be willing to lynch jimfinn instead if we don't want to risk that you are actually telling the truth. But when he flips scum, your ass is grass.

[LimMePls]

This is hilariously awful. RC, you should seriously quit mafia, you are terrible at it.

@DH: What about RC? Did you skip the wall-o-quotes I made?

[LimMePls]

and the only game I could find it was scum who suggested it

in my experience only scum asks for massclaim

So in your sample size of 1, scum asked for a massclaim, therefore only scum ask for massclaims? Do you have any idea how absolutely full of fail that is? That would be like someone getting dealt a full house in their first hand of poker, and thus assuming that a full house is a common hand. How can you play a game about thinking logically when you can't think logically?

You still haven't explained why you went from a town read on Mac to a "lets vote him in MYLO, he's obvscum". Unless you really believe that suggesting a massclaim in MYLO makes one scum. In which case, seriously, for the rest of the community, please take my advice and quit mafia forever.

I agree with Enigma that one of RBT/RC is probably lying. Based on my reads of this game, and the fact that one of them has admitted to lying about his claim in this game, I'm voting the one I think is most likely lying. I'm also open to the possibility of lynching jimfinn if we don't want to risk actually lynching a PR.

[LimMePls]

Do you honestly beleive doc should claim in massclaim every time?

Yes.

[LimMePls]

I don't see how mass claim helps town

That is why you fail.

God I love Yoda.

To be less snarky, it helps us because IT IS MYLO AND WE CAN'T MISLYNCH. SO WE WANT ALL AVAILABLE INFORMATION. YES AT THE COST OF LOSING POWER ROLES. TIME HAS BECOME MORE IMPORTANT TO US THAN THE ANONYMITY OF OUR PRs.

Plus, we want to be able to speculate about the setup, but we can't properly speculate about the setup if some roles remain unclaimed. Example:

Suppose it is MYLO in a game where every flipped role has been "Vanilla Townie". During massclaim a Doc AND a Cop decide to claim VT to protect themselves. The town may then erroneously conclude that it is a mountainous setup, and that they aren't actually in MYLO. This could be DISASTEROUS. The then unclaimed Doc/Cop, to correct this mistake, would be forced to claim anyways, only now they've been shown to be liars and can't be trusted that they are telling the truth.

Lying during a massclaim is BAD BAD BAD. I don't care what role you have.

[LimMePls]

@ML: If we're going to operate from a hypothetical "RC is a Doc" world, then I think your plan makes sense. In that case I'd want the vig on jimfinn.

Unvote

Lets not let anything hasty happen while we figure this out.

[LimMePls]

^How is that different from right now?

[LimMePls]

@MOD: I'm going to have Limited Access from now through Christmas. I will check and post as often as I'm able.

[LimMePls]

Cause he is the obvious scum's mislynch-of-the-day (TM). The only reason I voted him in the first place was his refusal to answer my question, trying to force him into answering. I still don't know why he wouldn't answer, but he's clearly VI (it's truth moose, deal with it) and I think there are better uses of our lynch.

LZP

Back on day 1 you posted this about moose

How were you so sure he was a mislynch?

Because there was (and still is) absolutely no case to scummy actions. He is the sort of players scum salivate over, because his behavior is so ridiculous that scum see easy mislynch.

Seems like you have been limiting your interaction with moose all game also, others find him scummy yet you don't seem to

I have and I am coming flat out and calling him a VI-town. How on EARTH is that limiting my interactions with him. If he actually does something scummy, maybe that would change my opinion, but he hasn't. Not like fake softclaiming, or actually fake claiming during massclaim.

What about him makes you so sure he is town?

The rush to lynch him over his obviously bad (but NOT scummy) play D1.

Jimfinn's intentional lurking plus his early game play plus his fake softclaim make him scum. Some players subtly pushing us away from that lynch (DH and RC specifically) only makes that more likely.

Scum team: jimfinn, DH, one of {RBT/RC}.

Unvote
Vote: jimfinn

Back to V/LA

[LimMePls]

I haven't forgotten about this game, but the wifi at my inlaws that I used to bum from a surrounding neighbor is no longer available. I'm catching up now, but this will be my only post over the next few days.

@Mod: Gonna need V/LA until next monday. Chances are I could probably post once or twice more between now and then. If you feel you need to replace me, I understand

[LimMePls]

Unvote, Vote: LynchMePls

Lets see you answer those questions under some pressure.

The following COULD very well be scum to me:

Rob
LMP
jim
moose
Lock

Amount of grey area in their wagon:

jim
Rob
moose (because Rob is attacking you)
Lock
LMP

LMP's lynch is very clear cut; he has very loose connections with a lot of people and I think he's our safest lynch.

@DH: this post is why you are scum. You had nothing for me, no hint or even suggestion that I was scum, then RC asks me one question, and here you pretend like you are "pressuring" me with your vote to get me to answer, when I hadn't been ignoring the questions or anything, I just hadn't posted since they were asked. Your interaction here makes me think you are scum. Your beating the drum for my lynch with absolutely NO reasons only solidifies it. Makes me pretty sure we're barking up the right tree on our scum teams, and you don't want them any of them lynched because the whole thread will unravel. Your constant pushing for me to answer when I had clearly and in bold announced a V/LA only makes your desperation more obvious.

I don't see much of anything else that I haven't commented on. I stand by my previous scum lists and my current vote.

BACK TO V/LA

BACK TO V/LA part 2, for those who don't read so good

[LimMePls]

Perhaps LMP is trying to get my lynched then by naming me on a scumteam with my biggest defender?

What are you smoking. A) I've been pushing for your lynch before DH started defending you. B) Why would that be an effective method of trying to get someone lynched?

@DH: ISO away. This should be good.

Back to V/LA

[LimMePls]

Good lord, I seriously cannot win when I'm town. This is approaching absurdity.

Clearly we don't lynch Enigma today. I'm thinking 1 of DH or RBT.

[LimMePls]

There are two scum, the town has little power, so it can very easily seem balanced.

Doc/Gov/Tracker is possibly on the powerful side for town in a 2 scum setup, but I have a hard time thinking that scum don't have a RB.

Don't these two contradict themselves? Are you saying that you think Doc/Gov/Tracker isn't powerful if a 2 man scum group has an RB? That doesn't sound right to me.

[LimMePls]

@Mac: I'm willing to lynch either of DH/RBT, since I'm pretty sure they are the 2 man team. What are your thoughts on this?

@Moose: Ditto.

[LimMePls]

@DH: Nice try at painting 2 maf as a scum slip, but its clearly not. If it were 3 maf, they'd already have won. In fact, your posturing "well we can't know its not 3 mafia" is scummy as hell. As for your ISO, I'll have to look at it later, but I remember thinking the whole thing struck me as pretty concocted.

@ML: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... =1&t=15121 one of the scum I found this game was PranaDevil, and one of the big points that I found against him was his talking about the scum in the singular (ie not allowing for the possibility of 2 mafia groups) early D1 in a large game where 2 scum teams are certainly a possibility. ISO me for the particulars.

RBT's theory about Enigma being mafia is only more proof that RBT is probably scum.

[LimMePls]

Alright. ISO on LMP.

LynchMePls, I see that you called the gonnano wagon "excellent." However, your vote is still on MacCavityLock, for reasons not apparent to me. Care to explain?

Oversight. I thought I voted in that post.

Unvote
Vote: gonnano

This strikes a little strange to me. LMP isn't the kind of person who would forget to vote on a good case and join a good wagon, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt; it's just worthy to note.

I forgot to cast a vote. It happens. Trying to paint it scummy is hilarious.

That was a serious question? I was working on scum hunting, and I answered the question later about Enigma. What exactly did you want?

Says that he's "scum hunting", but at this point, only:

1. Agreed with the gonnano wagon and asked moose one question
2. Offhand called three points silly
3. Asked moose two questions and tunneled him until he got answers.

He didn't really give a read on anyone except for gonnano. Not even moose; he voted him because he was avoiding the question, which doesn't give any sort of tell. You can't really call much of that "scum hunting", or at least, base your play on the excuse that you're trying to when it's minimal.

I don't feel like I have anything to defend here. I was hunting scum D1, whether you think it was effective or not.

I have never one time seen the words "scum team" used to mean anything other than a full faction. When someone posts "scum team(s)" on D1, there is the possibility that they are posting with inside information. I dunno how I was supposed to see anything else. I HAVE caught scum using a similar tell in reverse, although I can't link the game, it is ongoing. If I see someone making statements that looks to have inside information on D1, you better believe I'm calling it out.

Call me scumbag all you want, it doesn't make my observation scummy, and it surely doesn't make me scum.

Actually, I do think that your observation is quite scummy. I think you're trying to up the WIFOM with this post, especially after Enigma had returned serve by questioning your logic. I've done a bit of looking through games and in a lot of them, D1 conversations start with a discussion on setup. The townies are the ones that buy into the talk and the mafia are the ones that try to capitalize by opposing.

I've provided a specific link to the specific situation I was referring to in this post. IIRC, the events I was describing were fairly fresh in my memory, so when I saw someone else committing the same tell, I called it out.

My reason for voting LMP is that LMP made a case on Gonanno without voting him, which certainly made me feel like he was trying to act useful but not willing to apply pressure, a stance more useful to scum than to town. In other words, I found the case without vote suspicious moreso than having anything to do with who it was on.

How is making a case but not voting "not willing to apply pressure"? Isn't making a case applying pressure? Surely you understand how absurd that sounds. Regardless, when I was asked about it, I admitted that there not being a vote was an oversight. Why is my response that it was an oversight, followed by correcting the oversight, not a valid response?

Your vote on me makes no sense.

Wait wait wait. It's silly to me that you're trying to justify your case with no vote after you said it WAS an oversight. There's no need to do that and shows a bit of unneeded hostility.

It was an oversight. And I was defending myself because idiots seem to think that someone forgetting to vote is scummy, even if they immediately vote when someone points out that they didn't. It's absurd.

Pro is probably scum. Gonnano is still a good lynch.

Someone hammer.

Softly setting up suspicion for a D2 lynch. Setting up lynches are a no no.

I don't see a problem in stating a scum read. Earlier you said I was scummy for having no scum reads, now you are saying I'm scummy for having scum reads and listing them. Nice catch-22.

I think he is suggesting you're PZ's partner.

Gonnano should be lynched. We're at under 24 hours to deadline, and he claimed VT. Wagonning another player to a claim, plus risking a no lynch is bad, plus we'd just have to go round and round again tomorrow about Gonnano being scum. Those who are derailing this wagon are scummy.

Although I thought that Gonnano did look scummy when I did my readthrough, not allowing those who were discussing the final decision to do so screams "I'm scum and if this mislynch doesn't go through, I'm going to look terrible for pushing it so heavily". It was all or nothing at this point.

This is absurd. We were under 24 hours to deadline. I was NOT stiffling discussion, I was urging people to not let the deadline pass. Just so I'm clear, we were UNDER 24 HOURS TO DEADLINE.

Also, all this lurking has had a seriously negative impact on a seriously awesome wagon. I love how PZ has completely vanished once the heat on him has started losing steam.

I'm pretty sure we can win this game by lynching in the following order:

PZ
Jimfinn
Mizzy

Setting up lynches again.

No, once again, this was me listing my scum reads. I did not say "when so and so flips X, we lynch Y" or anything of the sort. I said "I'm pretty sure we can win..." which is just me saying I think these 3 are the scum. This is like the 4th or 5th time in this ISO where you've twisted my words to fit your narrative. I stand by this and all of my play, and you trying to make it scummy when it isn't reeks of a bit of desperation to me.

Asking a lot of questions with a "scatter-shot" approach and not following up on the answers seems like the ideal way scum want to "scum hunt". Lots of "questions" so they can go "see, I was hunting scum, look at all my questions" without any actual intent to find the scum. It's definitely scummy. Your attempt to defend the behavior is fail.

This is an actual quote said by LMP after his D1 play. It almost seems fucking hypocritical that he'd say that after it almost word for word describes his play.

I disagree with your premise that this describes my play.

Finally, he ends with me high up on the town scale, but as soon as I go through process of elimination and decide that LMP is our safest lynch, he turns all guns on me.

Without voting.

First off, what does "safest" lynch even mean? Second, yes I called you scum because your sudden "let's lynch LMP" seems scum motivated to me. Your entire ISO is nothing but you twisting everything I said to fit what you WANT it to have been, not what it was. Also your first vote on me yesterday was completely scummy. "Vote so he'll answer the question" when I hadn't avoided any question, I just hadn't been on since the question had been asked, and I answered it in my very first post after it was posed. Then, you accused me of active lurking and avoiding your question when I was PLAINLY ON V/LA and had announced so in the thread.

[LimMePls]

RBT, I see your point about the 2 maf only setup. I don't agree with it, but I get it.

Also, our lynch pool is definitely {Enigma, Mac, LMP}.

Why not DH?

That said, at this point, I'm kind of leaning towards a LMP lynch. DH, your iso hit really only one great point for me, that being the lynch setups here:

Also, all this lurking has had a seriously negative impact on a seriously awesome wagon. I love how PZ has completely vanished once the heat on him has started losing steam.

I'm pretty sure we can win this game by lynching in the following order:

PZ
Jimfinn
Mizzy

The sensitivity to the multiple scum teams thing is what gets me most, given that we almost certainly have a 2 maf team. LMP, I read through that part of the game you linked and I understand that you've used a similar tell before as town, but that doesn't mean you can't also use it as scum. In this game, I'm really getting the feeling of a member of a 2 maf trying to find the other team.

moose, replace out. Seriously. If you're unable to contribute, replace out. And, no, there are no Jesters in a Mini-Normal.

Mac, that doesn't make any sense. If I were mafia looking for a second team, I wouldn't scream it out in thread, I'd just note it and NK him that night. That is completely illogical. I don't really know what else to say about it, I couldn't post a link to the game at the time I made the comments because it was ongoing, but I know that Hotel Death was still very fresh in my mind at the time, and so it was something I was paying particular attention to.

I can't believe my listing those 3 players and saying "if we lynch in the following order" can be seen as a serious attempt to line up lynches. It was not meant as such, it was just a way of me expressing that I found them scummy in that order. I'm sure I've made similar statements in other games, I'd be happy to go dig them up if it'll save us from this mislynch. I am absolutely SICK AND TIRED of losing as town.

[LimMePls]

I don't think we should unvote BC. He was really scummy on that page, and then as soon as people started voting him for it, without even a post in here saying "Sorry, but I can't play" he suddenly requests replacement? I say that wagon is a go.

CT tomorrow.

Unvote
Vote: BC

From this game.

Agreed. MS wagon is really good. When he flips scum, Pacman goes up beside him.

From this game.

If I were an unlimited day killing vig, I'd kill in the following order:

a2rude, pacman, vollkan, ckd, lew.

From this game.


In each of those games, as town, I lined up lynches (ok, well, the day-vig thing was a bit different, but I meant it the same way I meant the list in this game).

[LimMePls]

I'm saying that I've used terminology that would be considered lining up lynches.

But keep it up DH, keep twisting the facts.

[LimMePls]

Vote: DH

This shit should happen.

[LimMePls]

Vote: DH

This shit should happen.

You didn't comment on my last post, and then you post this. After days of not posting.

This quote:

I seriously just want you to be hung at this point without really hearing much else, because it gives me a headache.

Didn't really leave the impression that you cared for a response. And since all you are doing is twisting my words to put the worst possible spin on it you can, I didn't really feel like giving one. So piss off.

[LimMePls]

What part of "So piss off" did you not understand? I'm not engaging you in your spin war, I've been down that road before and I don't particularly feel like doing it. You think I'm scum, and clearly nothing I say is going to change that. Since I'm pretty sure you're scum, nothing I'm going to say is going to convince you of that fact. I'm not getting into a merry-go-round "you, no you" fight. It's not productive.

@ML: I've done my absolute best to show you I'm not scum. Is there anything else you need from me?

[LimMePls]

^Another twisting of the truth. I have gone out of my way to show why I'm not scum.

[LimMePls]

WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT! There is no ragequitting. I'm not going to enter an endless loop with you where you call me scum and I say "No you". If you think I'd be pro-town in doing so, you're insane.

[LimMePls]

What's the deal people? If we're gonna sit around not saying anything, then lets lynch DH already.

[LimMePls]

^^No, it was me, but you were too busy with your "LMP is scum" rhetoric to listen.

@Mac: I'm willing to lynch either of DH/RBT, since I'm pretty sure they are the 2 man team. What are your thoughts on this?

@Moose: Ditto.

LMP, you have absolutely no response to my ISO on you?

Also, cool how you absolutely know that there are 2 scum. Oops.

@DH: Nice try at painting 2 maf as a scum slip, but its clearly not. If it were 3 maf, they'd already have won. In fact, your posturing "well we can't know its not 3 mafia" is scummy as hell. As for your ISO, I'll have to look at it later, but I remember thinking the whole thing struck me as pretty concocted.

Guys, 3 mafia and an SK does not constitute a mafia win. Use your brains.

Oh wait. You're scum, I forgot.

Just another in the long line of you twisting things to try to make me look scummy.

[LimMePls]

You make me sad ML.

[LimMePls]

@ML: I've done my absolute best to show you I'm not scum. Is there anything else you need from me?

This question still stands.

[LimMePls]

moose, sitting around doing nothing isn't going to make you unconfused. Ask questions, or do some ISOs, or reread the whole game, or something.

[LimMePls]

Wow. That is the first time I ever recall you mentioning you thought I was scum. WTF

[LimMePls]

Unvote
Vote: Moose

Who's your buddy? ML, RBT or DH?

[LimMePls]

Unvote
Vote: DH

GAHHHH!

Scratch that, this is not a scum move. Scum would have bandwagonned here.

MOOSE! PLEASE EXPLAIN WHY YOU ARE VOTING ME!

[LimMePls]

But it's cool when moose votes me without an explanation?

Where does this happen?

And the answer anyways is yes.

[LimMePls]

This game makes me sick.

VOTE DH! It's OBV. JESUS!

[LimMePls]

^^DH.

[LimMePls]

I want RBT to answer Lock's question.

Also, this game is starting to suck hardcore.

[LimMePls]

RBT, you knew that Enigma was going to attempt a kill. Tracking him gains the town nothing, no matter what the result. Why didn't you Track me?

I sent the wrong name, and didn't catch it.

Massively underwhelming. Also pretty unbelievable.

I'm open to RBT and DH lynches, which IIRC is exactly where I was yesterday. So this game has now officially bored me.

Vote: RBT

If a wagon appears on DH I'm happy to join.

[LimMePls]

I am also wavering between RBT and DH. That mistake is just about too much to be believable. However, I think I'm going to VOTE: DH. Post 1174 is full of too many assumptions about setup, and balance does suggest that RBT really is a town Tracker.

Sold.

Unvote
Vote: DH

[LimMePls]

Nothing new to add to this game.

[LimMePls]

JESUS CHRIST! I'M NOT SCUM.

I'm so sick of this game.

[LimMePls]

This game has completely bored me. I have absolutely 0 desire to continue with it, but replacing out on the finish line seems lame. The going to deadline and no lynching followed by scum no kill is just retarded. I'm not scum. Lynching me = scum win. DH and ML or DH and RBT are scum, by POE. I have nothing else to add to this game.

This is pretty much how I'm responding to any prods in the future. So deal with it.

[LimMePls]

@Mac - re "Why isn't moose scum": Yesterday plus pretty much a solid VI read all game. See this

Unvote
Vote: DH

GAHHHH!

Scratch that, this is not a scum move. Scum would have bandwagonned here.

MOOSE! PLEASE EXPLAIN WHY YOU ARE VOTING ME!

[LimMePls]

This game still bores me.

@rat: You need to freaking vote already.

[LimMePls]

That's not L-1 rat, Lateralus is not voting me at the moment.

GG scum. This game blows.

[LimMePls]

Because it doesn't make sense for Rice-Scum not to hammer DH-Town.

Why can't it be DH/RBT scum?

[LimMePls]

Well...here's the thing.

While I like you, Lat, I would rather the roleblocker stay alive.

RBT, remember when LMP challenged you to target him? I'm willing to bet scum can no-kill, or at least, there's a good chance of it. Can we lynch LMP instead of Lock?

When did I do that? Show it to me.

[LimMePls]

RBT, you knew that Enigma was going to attempt a kill. Tracking him gains the town nothing, no matter what the result. Why didn't you Track me?

I sent the wrong name, and didn't catch it.

Massively underwhelming. Also pretty unbelievable.

I'm open to RBT and DH lynches, which IIRC is exactly where I was yesterday. So this game has now officially bored me.

Vote: RBT

If a wagon appears on DH I'm happy to join.

QFT

[LimMePls]

That said this quote seriously affirms Rat-Town btw. Scum Rat would be like lolz ok guiz and pick the townie to lynch and there'd be nothing I could do about it. I kinda doubt Rat would be clever enough have to some other giant elaborate plan in mind with this.

Ya, I already got to this conclusion from yesterday.

[LimMePls]

You should be voting Rice then so we can continue with my master plan no?

Sure. RBT is likely scum based on his "oops, I shouldn't have tracked Enigma" response at the start of this day.

Unvote
Vote: RBT

[LimMePls]

Because In-Game actions > Set up, for all we know our mod could have done a fail job at balancing/we're thinking about the set up wrong.

I need you to tell ME why Rice's results contradict.

This! I just ran my first ever game here:

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 83&start=0

Most of the town players feel the setup was weighted significantly for the scum, but the setup reviewers for the mini normal queue approved it before it ran. Just because the setup would be unbalanced if RBT is lying != RBT is telling the truth.

The "he must be tracker because setup wouldn't be balanced otherwise " is not good enough.

[LimMePls]

So basically what I want explained to me is:

@DH: Why didn't RBT hammer you if you are town.

[LimMePls]

Can I even win? This is just kingmaker DH v Lat, right?

[LimMePls]

Do you guys at least understand what I'm trying to say?

Even IF I was mafia, if you lynch me, that throws away the CHANCE that I may be town, even IF RBT had the chance to win the game and didn't take it. I have NO CLUE why she didn't.

If you lynch Lat, you are lynching either mafia (which I fucking know he is) or an SK. You guys get the SAME OUTCOME regardless of the flip.

It's like, lynch Lat, and you get a 50% chance of winning with nothing else influencing the situation. Lynch me, you get a 0% chance of winning.

I understand this.

It's kingmaker and we have a 100% confirmed (by his own admission) non-town in Lateralus. DH is like 99.5% chance mafia. So why not lynch the 100% confirmed town and HOPE that it was actually 10v2 and not 9v2v1.

I like this plan, since its the only one that even allows a HOPE that I can win. So playing to my wincon:

Vote: Lateralus

You should do this too rat, we MIGHT win.

[LimMePls]

^100% confirmed scum, not town. I hope what I said is clear. If you have any questions, please ask rat.

[LimMePls]

I don't even understand your post. Your Win-Con is impossible to reach PLUS DH is 100% Scum (which is why it's more of your win-con to lynch him) the moment Rice decided not to hammer him PLUS I am 100% confirmed Not-Scum when I had a chance to hammer for the win with Rice.

If I was scum why wouldn't I quick hammer for the win with Rice?

But he's not 100% scum, the possibilities exist that there are only 2 scum total, and you are not an SK as you claim.

Which means that lynching DH is 100% certain to let the you win. By lynching YOU though, we have a chance (however slim) of actually being in a 10-2 setup and winning the game. Therefore, playing to my win con, the ONLY logical choice is to lynch you and hope that DH is actually town.

[LimMePls]

Lat, look at it from my perspective. None of the scenarios make sense. But what is 100% certain is that YOU are SK. Your slot has claimed it. There would be absolutely 0, none, nadda, zip, zilch reasons for a town player to claim that. Therefore you are GUARANTEED scum.

There exists some slim strange corner case scenarios under which DH is actually town. Therefore, the ONLY chance I have to win, is to lynch YOU and not DH.

Look at it another way:

If DH is telling the truth, I actually have a chance to win.
If Lat is telling the turht, I have 0 chance to win.

I'm going with the option that results in a possible win. It's the only logical thing to do.

[LimMePls]

^^That is the dumbest refutation I have ever seen. That's not logical because the base premise starts with a fallacy.

Why on earth does you being the SK mean we SHOULDN'T lynch you? Please explain this to me. Under what scenario does not lynching you lead to a town win?

[LimMePls]

I'm not lynching someone who might, in some microscopic way be town in favor of someone who ABSOLUTELY isn't town just to give that other non-Town person a chance to win.

I'm playing to my win con. My win con is for town to win. Town CANNOT win with you alive. It's THAT SIMPLE.

Preview Edit: It's possible, but it would have to be DAMN good, because I see NO reason to allow you to win at the cost of any chance for me to win.

Suppose this: DH is lying and it's
Lat SK
DH Mafia
Rat Town
Me Town.

I don't really give a crap which of Lat/DH wins, both mean a loss for me. Under one scenario though, I might be able to win, and under the other I'm guaranteed to lose. Why on EARTH would I choose that option? Were the roles reveresed and I was the SK, would you lynch DH just to give me a win at the cost of any chance for your own win? Why?

[LimMePls]

i can understand the logic behind voting for lateralus22. i really can. its just that i see no real possibility of him actually being scum. i am convinced now that he is the sk, and i have to ask myself, ' what is truer to my wincon, voting for someone who i believe to be scum, or voting for someone who very likely isnt scum and yet still gives me an unbelievably tiny chance of winning on the negligible chance that he is scum?'

and, once again, all the pressure is on me. FFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

p. p. p. edit: lmp does give good reasons to vote lat22. i need some time to think though about all the possibilities. a case on lat22 wouldnt hurt either, if someone had the energy to make one (i know i dont).

Rat, a case is COMPLETELY moot. You build a case to convince other that someone isn't town. In this case, the player has ALREADY CLAIMED to not be town. I'll got quote the claim for you. It's very simple:

If we lynch Lat (someone who has CLAIMED OUTRIGHT TO NOT BE TOWN) we actually have a situation where we could win.
If we lynch DH (someone who has NOT claimed outright to be scum, but almost beyond any doubt is) we cannot possibly win.

Why would you EVER choose the first option?

[LimMePls]

@Rat:

Actually since it's now fucking obvious and I obviously fail big time.

Claim: Third Party

Discuss?

This is the player who's slot is now Lat. This slot has CLAIMED to not be town. That is all the case you could ever need. Do the right thing, give us a chance.

[LimMePls]

There is no cases needed, yesterday I handed you the scum team on a golden platter.

The only choices are

Lynch the SK because lying into a sweet lie will give you the comfort of "playing to your impossible to reach win con"
Lynch the Mafia and let the SK win

Please whatever you do not stall the game, even if it means I die.

Preview Edit: Thank you for your fast response LMP. I can't change your mind since you care nothing about me. Have fun falling for the most blatant lie in the history of the world. Sweet poison that you simply couldn't resist.

Heh.

Rat. You might as well kill me now. I refuse to self hammer.

IT'S NOT FALLING FOR A LIE. I accept that it's almost certain that we'll lose. But guess what, ALMOST certain is better than ABSOLUTELY certain. Why on earth should I do the sub-optimal thing just to give you a win. That doesn't make sense.

[LimMePls]

LMP if I were in your place I would look at the role interactions and choose who

I

think is scum because at this point being RIGHT would be more important to me. Not falling for a little lie because of false hope.

Preview Edit: LMP it totally is falling for a lie

Lie = Setup is 10:2
LMP: Okay Dookie guess this means I win lolz gonna lynch Lat then!

How is believe a 10:2 not falling for a lie?

You are hilarious and flailing. You say you would look for interactions to choose who you think is scum, but you are denying the fact that you'd ALREADY KNOW WHO IS SCUM. One player has already CLAIMED it.

It's clear that you are lobbying for a win. I understand that. But I see no reason to engage in a course of actions that 100% guarantees I'll get another loss, when there is an option that provides for a possible win. I'd even argue that voting for anyone but you is playing AGAINST the town win con, since not lynching you means the town AUTOMATICALLY LOSES.

[LimMePls]

scum != mafia. scum = not-town. That's why the term scum was invented. To describe cases where anti-town players aren't mafia (calling SKs mafia makes no sense, calling them scum makes perfect sense). That's my understanding anyways.

I think it's incredibly unlikely you are mafia. But not impossible.

[LimMePls]

Hello everyone. Can we just lynch LynchMePls? He SUCKS as town and is GOOD at being scum. As town he only wins 33% of the time while as scum he wins a whopping 80%.

It makes the most sense to lynch LynchMePls and I shall leave my vote on him until he is lynched.

(inb4 tunneling)

vote LynchMePls

For future reference

This is hilariously ironic.

[LimMePls]

Hello everyone. Can we just lynch LynchMePls? He SUCKS as town and is GOOD at being scum. As town he only wins 33% of the time while as scum he wins a whopping 80%.

It makes the most sense to lynch LynchMePls and I shall leave my vote on him until he is lynched.

(inb4 tunneling)

vote LynchMePls

For future reference

This is hilariously ironic.

[LimMePls]

LMP scum got robbed by a) apathetic teammate that HAD to submit the kill via PM (couldn't do it in QT) that didn't submit the kill (multiple times perhaps?) and b) same teammate who doesn't hammer for the win when presented the chance. Given those obstacles, I feel LMP scum did deserve to win. Of course I'm biased.

I played my ass off to win this game. Against some pretty rough difficulties too. Those mentioned above plus 9v2v1 is generally considered town sided.

[LimMePls]

LMP, why the hell did RBT let me live?

Great freaking question. Also, why did RBT not submit the NK? Maybe RBT likes to make difficult challenges more difficult? Who knows. *shrug*

[LimMePls]

@SSBF: Thanks for modding. I enjoyed the game very much. The only problem I had with your modding was that you KNEW RBT wanted to NK (via the QT), but you didn't allow that to count as the action AND you didn't issue a reminder that actions in the QT were not valid. I don't understand why you wouldn't issue even the most basic warning: "Please make sure you have submitted all actions by PM prior to the deadline". I don't understand why intentionally disregarding his choice makes the game more fun.

That said, RBT WTF not submitting the action man? I mean come on!

[LimMePls]

That being said, it would have been interesting for one of {pappums rat, DemonHybrid} to decide whenever or not the SK or Mafia would have won.

I wanted to avoid this at all costs. I knew if we lynched DH that this would be the case, that's why I worked so hard for the Lat lynch at the end. It was the only way to guarantee us a win.