Mini 1094 - Mariposa Peak Mafia - Game Over!

[ConfidAnon]

Vote: singersigner

You don't know your own identity (princess vs. queen)? Maybe this means your not reading your role PM carefully enough . . . which is a liability for us, if you're Town.

Also, hi all.

[ConfidAnon]

My apologies:

Vote: singersigner

[ConfidAnon]

vote: sims5487

for being the last to post.

Yay confid returns to the site

I keep getting drawn back even though I'm horrible.

[ConfidAnon]

Sorry all, lots of work yesterday so I am just getting to all this now. However in the meantime I am going to

Unvote: Rhinox
Vote: AGar

because I know him IRL and he is SUPER SCUMMY.

But I am also reading his stuff on Gud and the SS/CC nonsense so I'll be back with my thoughts on that in a bit.

I don't like this. Why continue the RVS when we are clearly past it? Even if you haven't read up yet, you obviously know that there is more serious discussion going on. This post smells of not having much to say, but fear of being labelled a lurker causes you to make an unsubstantial post. I don't like the need to keep up appearances . . . it's more of a scum trait, I'd say.

Unvote, Vote: sims5487

Oh don't be so emo, you're fine.

I'm 16 going on 17 (NO SONG JOKES). I still have the teenage angst card.

[ConfidAnon]

1.

WOAH! Holy smokes, are you for real right now? Firstly, who said I was trying to continue the RVS? Reading into my posts a bit much, aren't you?

2.

But then again, what's wrong with continuing RVS? We're only a few days in, my friend, and right now there is little to go on despite the nonsense that CC & SS are throwing around. Additionally, just "knowing" there's a serious conversation going on doesn't mean I should go around voting willy-nilly without thinking things through, no?

3.

Frankly I'd say your sudden desire to jump on my back about one post shows an eagerness to get a quick lynch. What you did just there is far more of a scum-tell than anything I just said, in my opinion...

(Added in the numbers for ease of reference.)

1. Nice overreaction. Your reason for voting AGar was "he's scummy in real life." I think (or at least, I

hope

) you meant that as a joke vote. Joke votes are only really acceptable in the RVS. Therefore, a joke vote when we've moved past that is a continuation of the RVS.

2. Wait. First you deny that you were continuing the RVS, and then defend the RVS. It's almost as if you want to cover yourself regardless of which stance players take. Little to go on besides that? You mentioned yourself that AGar has points on Gud. There are things, albeit not a large quantity of them because it is early, as you mentioned, to comment on. Joking around is fun, but it stifles productive discussion, and doing so while there are noteworthy events happening just clutters the thread. Your last sentence in this portion is interesting, considering you did go around voting willy-nilly without thinking things through while knowing there's a serious conversation going on.

3. Where did you get the desire for a quick lynch from my post? There have been lots of votes cast in this game . . . does every voter want a quick lynch? I vote for who I find scummiest at the time, and your post was the scummiest thing I've seen. Your reaction is verification. But your hasty jump from one vote to someone wanting to quick lynch you is a poor argument, and makes you sound like you are flailing.

[ConfidAnon]

Right, when I posted that, it was a joke intended to be RVS before I had read (and then realized) that serious allegations were being made. EXCUUUUSE ME.

No it wasn't. You voted and mentioned the other things going on in the same post.

Wow, talking about overreactions... It sounds to me like you found a person who made an innocuous joke and chose to grab the one hand-hold you have on me, because it's easy. You're attacking me just to attack me because you've got nothing else to go on right now. Seems a little presumptuous and trigger-happy to me. Which brings me to:

Notice that this had nothing to do with the quoted segment. Your true that I have nothing else to go on, as nothing else has stricken me as particularly scummy up till this point. You are acting scummy, and I am pointing out what I find scummy. How is this presumptuous and trigger-happy?

What? How is that flailing? There is a difference between flailing and defending myself against your vote because I feel like it's silly.

By flailing, I mean overreacting and hasty logical leaps, both of which you are guilty of.

What is your mafia experience? Links to completed games would be helpful.

[ConfidAnon]

Ugh. Look, I am not going to try and defend myself for making a joke and pissing you off just because I was still in RVS when everyone else seemed to have moved on for what I see as weak reasons. And while I did acknowledge that there were serious conversations taking place I did also say I hadn't read them yet.

However, having read most of it, I think Carrotcake and singersinger are doing nothing but spinnin' wheels on all of page 3 and boring the hell out of me.

And I still wouldn't call my response an overreaction; if anyone's overreacting, again I say it's you. I think your sudden aggression based off of what I think was a pretty clear joke is pretty scummy itself.

Lastly, I don't know what you're angling by going meta on me, but I don't have any completed games. This is my 2nd and I'm currently in the middle of my first newbie.

You haven't made me angry at all . . . don't take aggression for personal feelings. That first line makes me think you took that a little personally, which I do not mean my posts to do. This is strictly game, and I've been pretty calm. If anything, you've actually made me happy, because so far it's been an interesting chain of posts for me. No matter about the banter though, my original point stands. Our back and forth does not need to clutter up the thread though, so I'll give it a rest for now until others can weigh in.

I completely agree with you on CC v. SS.

Try reading your posts tomorrow. You might see why it could be construed as an overreaction.

And about the last line: Don't take it personally. Meta helps read anybody. Have you played mafia on other sites, or is this your first experience with the game? (I did get new player vibes from you during our exchange, and then I saw that your join date was relatively new.)

[ConfidAnon]

Not liking Confid's vote against sims. It's based upon sims not commenting on anything that has happened so far, but in the same post in which Confid votes sims, he doesn't mention the Carrot VS Singer discussion or the AGar VS Guderian debate either.
But the way Confid argues with sims come across as genuine. Gut town read on sims.

It's somewhat based on that, but more so on the fact that it read, to me, as a post made for the sake of posting. I translate it to "I don't have much to say about the SS vs. CC discussion, but I don't want to appear as if I am lurking, so I'll throw in a random vote and promise to get to things later."

The overreaction does strike me as a new player, and thus a nulltell . . . but I don't like the need to keep up appearances demonstrated in the post which I first commented on. It seems to me as something that newb-scum would try to pull.

Go BQ first. If BQ flips scum, then Sims.

What leads you to connect Blood Queen to sims?

[ConfidAnon]

Sims wagon was at 4, mine was at 3 and had recently pulled ahead. BQ, while posting about everything else, stuck her vote on my wagon, bringing them back to a tie scenario. If I had to pick out 3, I'd say sims was their scum buddy, Gud put a 3rd vote on him to look like a bit of pressure, PR (town in this scenario) puts his vote on sims to make it 4 and then BQ panics at the wagon actually pulling ahead and votes me to tie them back up.

Ah, thanks for the clarification.

Seems like a bit to idealistic to peg the scumteam based on only what has happened thus far, but your logic is sound.

[ConfidAnon]

Seems like a bit to idealistic to peg the scumteam based on only what has happened thus far, but your logic is sound.

Hahahahaha! The irony of this being your reply to a post about bandwagons is unbelievable. Palpable, even.

The irony is lost on me. We don't have much voting analysis to go on, and while he is using sound logic, it's difficult to perceive a scumteam based on the bandwagons this early in the game.

[ConfidAnon]

Cant miss this nugget from Agar. Setting up actions predicated on previous actions = scum. If X, and X is bad, does not mean we should do Y and then Z and then....

Normally, I'd agree with something like this, but in this particular instance, I don't think it's that scummy.

If he were saying "Lynch Blood Queen. If Town, lynch ConfidAnon. If scum, lynch sims," it would be more suspect because he's trying to lead up a lynch with another lynch regardless of what happens. But in this game, his suspicion of Blood Queen directly stems from what he views as Blood Queen's protection (from joining the AGar wagon) of sims. While I'm not sure pursuing a lynch this early based purely on voting patterns and not on individual scumminess is the best course of action, saying "Lynch Blood Queen. If scum, lynch sims. If not scum, I'll reread sims" is not scummy - it's a logical continuation of his viewpoint.

[ConfidAnon]

Thor - Can I be your friend? I'll make us a bracelet.

[ConfidAnon]

The above is NOT a friendship bracelet. No sirreee me and Thor are not friends. *whistles nonchalantly*

(here ya go.)

[ConfidAnon]

The more I think about it, what I've seen from sims could be newb/playstyle, but it's still not great.

You've been downgraded (sorry if it hurts your feelings).

Unvote: sims
FoS: sims

I have noted PR to be a potential scum as well. His or Gud's timing fits in with the BQ panic mode that I'm seeing. Also, his posts have been quite largely skirting questions. I just have a stronger read on BQ here right now. The big indicator is the post where she votes for me. She notes me once, asking me to answer some questions for her about why I mentioned policy/meta and what benefits you have to ignoring it. But that's it. Not "OMG AGar did this, or AGar did that." Instead, just moves onto the wagon while even mentioning a suspicion of PR for "stretching what sims said." Just more preservation motivation that I see.

I think this has merit.

Vote: Blood Queen

[ConfidAnon]

I have pointed out what is scummy. Instead of sticking you fingers in your ears and yelling about, careful go back and look at thor. Then look at his interactions with sims. Check out confid's change in tune. Look at your own interactions with thor, and evaluate, "is this making me look scummy?"

Don't get angry/emotion, use logic. Then come back.

I am confused. Are you trying to peg a scumteam of thor/sims/me? And why are you asking singer if you think that's the case?

I'd rather not go on, because clearly you don't want to listen, but you almost just admitted to being a useless part of the town, by being unable to actually look through and think and question things. I'm asking you to look for yourself and decide.

I can take a horse to water, I just cant make it drink. If you dont want to think for yourself, just switch your vote to one of these people:

Thor
Agar
Sims
Confid
Reck

Good things will happen.

So . . . there are five scum? Why do you have no reasons for your list, yet expect people to follow your lead? I kind of see where you are going with your thor/sims/me suspicion, but why did singer not make this final list even though you have said you find her scummy? And where do Agar and Reck come into your line of thought? I'm trying to follow, but there aren't enough signposts for me to stay on the trail (it's too late to try to think of witty metaphors. -_-)

[ConfidAnon]

Gud - Explain. Now.

[ConfidAnon]

For one thing, I know everybody doesn't agree on where this ends. The justification of this reason is beyond terrible, calling out sims for "unsubstantial posts":

I think most would agree that serious discussion ends the RVS.

To test this, most of my posts have been mainly garbage. Yet he didn't mention me once. Why is this? I assume he either thought
a. I would be to tough of a target
b. He didnt actually believe what he was saying.

I am leaning towards b. He wanted to 'look active' to appear non-scummy, which is basically what he lambasted others for doing.

Up to the point of the sims post where I first voted him, you had four posts (two of which I could see as serious) whereas he had two, the second of which was what I saw as the attempt to prolong the RVS. There were core issues going on, and what he posted was basically "Oh, I know this is going on, I'll get to it later . . . but in the mean time I'll throw in a random vote." As for your posts, the majority of them do appear to be looking for scum (in your own, very

unique

way of doing so.) Sure, you have some fluff thrown in, but fluff with scumhunting is acceptable. You've done nothing even relating to the point I was making about sims in the beginning. Comparing you two is a case of the long-contested debate, apples v. oranges.

a. He calls out sims for being newbie scum, but then decides that this is actually newb town.

A change of opinion does not a mafioso make.

When I'm bored at school (I'm a high schooler), I think about various games I'm in, and I mull over them. Much more so when I was in some deeper mafia games (that were set up kind of like reality television), but I still think about this one. Thinking about sims's play disconnected from the exchange we were in made me see things a little differently. Note that I'm not saying that he's innocent, by any means, but that my vote is better used elsewhere.

He then votes bloodqueen, saying she may be new/skittish, and thus is obviously mafia.

I never said that I was voting Blood Queen for being new/skittish. That was the reason I downgraded sims. I voted Blood Queen for the reason outlined by AGar. Is English your first language?

b. doesn't follow up on people he considers scummy.

I mean this in the nicest way possible (not really), but are you reading the thread? Did you not see the exchange between me and sims? All of that was follow-up. There are several players in this game. I'm not going to tunnel on one specific person.

a. His iso 11-12 tries to make friends with thor, tries to appear nonchalant, carefree. Looks like a not so well covered act.

Mafia is meant to be fun. As I said above, a little fluff doesn't hurt as long as you are also playing the game. I do enjoy joking around within games as well as playing them. You're reading more into that than is there.

b. His is clearly forced. What would he hope I would say. What it looks like is he wants to get on this wagon without notice.

I don't understand this point. That comment was directed at the Serial Killer claim (though it's understandable why you'd be confused, looks like I forgot to quote that). Though the outline of your case is appreciated, as it makes you a lot easier to debate with. I don't understand how this relates to "get on this wagon without notice," though.

I got what I wanted.

Could you be more specific? Clarity is protown, vagueness is not.

[ConfidAnon]

What the hell is a pure anti-town role anyway?
is there something like a diluted anti-town role. An anti-town role with plenty of chemical additives, perhaps?
don't forget that it's a pure anti-scum role as well.

This made me laugh. Good job.

I am going to go with a loose theory here;

as a n00b, any and all are welcome to point out holes and inaccuracies

(and in Thor's case, annoyances with CAPS and posting etiquette). I'm starting to think maybe Gud is scum and claiming SK in hopes that we'd offer allegiance (as CarrotCake has done), thus ensuring the survival of at least one scum to endgame. Other people have pointed out some scummy behavior from CC; it would make sense that she, as scum, would try to jumpstart a ridiculous campaign to offer him sanctuary and use him as anti-scum rather than anti-town. Thoughts?

Unvote
Vote: Guderian

The bolded bothers me. It is noted that you didn't start referring to yourself as a newb until others wrote off your odd behavior earlier as newbtells.

@sims - that play seems too obvious and risky to work.

By claiming SK (a claim he has since said isn't true, fyi everyone)

Gud basically put a 'kill me before mylo/lylo card on his chest and lit it up with sparklers. No scum is likely to try that on Day 1 methinks. I actually am taking it as a towntell simply because it's such an in your face reaction test that he basically screamed that he should have everyone pay attention to him - which is not something scum normally do. They either try to stay under radars or they try to look town - I've yet to see one try to look scummy/anti-town.

And this, is extremely interesting. I encourage everyone to iso Gud. You will see that he has not said anything regarding the truthfulness of his claim. The psychologist in me says this is an sk-tell for Thor. While it is true that Gud answered a question about what he was attempting to accomplish, his answer gave absolutely 0 insight into the validity/intent of the claim.

This is worth pursuing.

Unvote, Vote: Thor

[ConfidAnon]

Confid, what do you think about the serial killer claim?

VI trying a gambit, or trolling. I can't believe that anyone would claim SK seriously this early in a game.

I brought up the English thing because, at times, it seems that your posts are a little awkwardly worded, and I was wondering if that was more of a personality thing or a language barrier thing.

@Confid - Um...wait, so you're saying that because I believe the guy claiming SK isn't an SK that makes me the SK? Theoretically by you believing I could be the SK you just showed that you don't believe Gud is the SK which suggests you are the SK by the same logic. Please, go bang your head against a wall a few times until that logic slips out of it. Also, just because Gud didn't outright deny his roleclaim doesn't mean he didn't do it pretty clearly.

No. I'm saying you could have accidentally combined the knowledge that Gud wasn't the SK with what you read in the thread, and accidentally posted something that hadn't happened.

Holy god, are we still on about this? I admitted to being a newb as soon as the question of my experience was brought up. Nothing to hide there. Why is that still stuck in your craw?

No, this is a completely new point entirely. Prefacing an argument with "I'm a noob" can be an attempt to diminish the fire you come under for crap logic. (I think your logic is a bit overeager, but not neccessarily bad.)

[ConfidAnon]

Thor and Gud - both of you kind of ignored my responses to you. Any comments?

[ConfidAnon]

First you call me and idiot, then a troll. Ok I guess...

English is fluent.

Your whole post was basically riffing me. You wanted me to respond to that?

No, I wanted to see your thoughts on your case on me after I responded.

(And those weren't meant as personal insults.)

You obviously read it, because you responded to the English comment, but you didn't respond to anything else (even though some of the points, as I pointed out, were your misunderstandings of what happened in thread).

So I just skipped past that by not responding. Do you have a new point you feel you brought up that I should respond to? All you appeared to do is restate your original point, and I already did our argument, so we might as well move forward until something new happens in that quarter. If you want responses than advance issues or ask follow up questions. You didn't leave either Gud or I anything worth responding to.

To me, your original response was not true to my original point. By restating, I thought I was clarifying. You ignored the main point and instead, kind of tried to turn it back around on me, using a different line of logic than I originally did.

[ConfidAnon]

Actually all I was trying to do was show the inherent weakness of the logic you used.
Besides, your tell is that I'm the SK because I leaped to a presumption. I showed you where I drew the presumption and other than doing that there's no way to respond to a case as ephemeral as yours as you'll either see the obvious information in Gud's posts that I used or you won't. What do you want me to respond to besides that?

I pressed you for a response mainly to see your reaction. Admittedly, I'm not the best at this stuff, but I was thinking that if my line of thinking had merit, you would react in a manner that would incriminate yourself. You were fairly calm (though snarky, which I appreciate ), which looks good for you.

Unvote

I'd really like to see Gud's claim and response to my defense before someone hammers, accidentally or otherwise.

[ConfidAnon]

For one, Im not going to say anything about my role unless someone unvotes, because I don't want a stray missile to come in here and blow me up if they 'don't believe it.'

Refusal to claim is more likely to launch a stray missle, and incredibly scummy when your at L-1.

Also, it's noted that you still ignored my defense.

[ConfidAnon]

I looks good, nice defense. Well laid out. There didn't seem to be any specific questions launched at me, So I think thats why I didn't respond.

I still think you're slightly scummy. Are you concerned because my vote is still on you?

Thank you. I know we simulposted. When that occurred that was the second asking.

I was concerned because there were blatant misreps (albeit, probably unintentional) in your case, and I was wondering how their reveal to you would affect you.

[ConfidAnon]

Hello all,

My name is Conrad. For the last week and a half, I have been on vacation. During that time, my little brother saw fit to start using this account to play some game. Instead of not using this account, he has abused it.

I have just returned. I have read this game, and from what I can see, I would like to deeply apologize to all people playing this game. Instead of a game of mafia being what it should be, a fun gathering of like minded people, he-- and this account-- have turned it into a virtual cesspit.

I am greatly offended and saddened by what has happened here. Being courteous to your fellow man and woman, respectful, Is what I hold most dear in this world. This has been grievously violated.

I understand if you no longer want to continue having this account in the game. At this point, I can either replace out, be lynched, or whatever the players in this game may choose. Nothing excuses this behavior. Losing is one thing, being a dick totally another.

Thank you,

Conrad

Oh geez.

I've seen the "troll in a game, claim sibling was at the cause, deny all involvement, beg for mercy" ploy on nonmafia websites several times before. Gud, your play has gone from VI to troll, and keeping you in the game is just going to cause future problems for everyone involved.

Unvote, Vote: Guderian

[ConfidAnon]

Well then. There are some things I want to look into, but I am going to be busy the next few days with Christmas and whatnot. However, the last day of school is tuesday, so from then on I'll have some extra time.

[ConfidAnon]

Whoa hi.

Replace Me.