Mini 1102 - Rivertown Mafia (Game Over!)

[ThAdmiral]

/confirm

[ThAdmiral]

I doubt that was random since it happened to be third on the wagon. Since you are trying to hide the real reason for your vote...

vote: el simo

[ThAdmiral]

I'm on chamber's side. Not sure what he should be responding to?

Why the vote?

It's not clear to me why.

[ThAdmiral]

Are you asking me?

Yes. Don't play coy. This is the second time you avoided giving a reason to your vote.

I see you have since done so. Thank you for that, but why not state this up front?

[ThAdmiral]

Anyway, my 'stifling discussion' post spawned more discussion than anything so far, so I'm calling it a success. The scummiest players so far are ThAdmiral and Cyberbob. They come in, vote un-randomly, and disappear. Don't like.

Olinea and chamber have to stop the posting diarrhea. A long and confusing game helps scum. Don't post unless you have something to say. Always have something to say.

This entire post is basically mudslinging.
I "disappeared" apparently, even though the game has been going for less than a day?
Olinea and chamber are posting diarrhea?
Seriously?

Vote: umbrage

[ThAdmiral]

As for you, el simo, you said you were randomly voting. It's interesting how your "RANDOM" vote happened to follow the bandwagon. To me, it looks like you're trying to jump on the largest bandwagon and further it without too much (read: any) reasoning. How can you even say it was unrelated? It's interesting because it's too much of a coincidence.

So from this I can assume you think bandwagons are bad?

No, he's saying lying is bad.


Sorry for the multiple posts btw. I'm on my phone and it's impossible to multiquote on it.

[ThAdmiral]

When did I lie?

You said it was a random vote.

[ThAdmiral]

I wasn't being coy, you quoted someone else when asking what you asked, the content of that quote was about me, so I assumed you were asking me the question, but generally questions below quotes are directed at the poster of the quote. I was mildly confused so asked for clarities sake.

Ok, fair enough.

That depends on what context you read random in. Was I saying the target of my vote was randomly chosen or was I saying the act of voting was random and irrelevant to the previous content of the game?

You tell me which one it was and then I'll tell you whether it was lying or not.

[ThAdmiral]

When did I lie?

I agreed with them yes but that is not why I voted him. Sora is right I was specifically pushing the bandwagon. I want to know why he thinks this is bad and if he doesn't what he is implying by it being too much of a coincidence.

This is the worst post in the game so far. You answer your own question: you lied about the reasoning for your vote. Which is alright, I think lying for a pressure vote is often a good play, but you try to make it look like you didn't lie. Which can only mean you have something to hide.

This.

Some of us have other things to do in the leadup to Christmas other than play mafia. What an amazing thing.

This is the best post in the game so far. The activity level here is absolutely insane. I'm not going to be able to keep up.

But you said you were suspicious of people for disappearing a few posts ago. Wtf?

[ThAdmiral]

@ el simo: why did you say "randomly" in your vote post then?

@ umbrage: please respond to my question about your backtracking.

[ThAdmiral]

I agree.

On a completely unrelated note I think I'll randomly

Vote: Umbrage

.

This is what you said. Why did you use the word "randomly"?

[ThAdmiral]

@ThAdmiral: I haven't backtracked on my stance that excessive posting is anti-town. When I gave my scum reads, I based those primarily on who was fooling around in the RVS, and who was looking for a wagon to jump on. It had little to do with activity level.

But you said you were suspicious of me and cyberbob for disappearing. Explain.

Also I can't see the pic in 116. What is it?

I agree.

On a completely unrelated note I think I'll randomly

Vote: Umbrage

.

This is what you said. Why did you use the word "randomly"?

Because I decided to ignore the previous seriousness and specific reasons for voting him and randomly bandwagon him. I thought I made this clear but the amount of times I insisted that you were reading it wrong. The previous content of the game had no adherence to my vote and I wasn't acting in random in my decision to bandwagon him. The definition of random is broader than pulling names out a hat.

This is what Umbrage doesn't understand.

Ooooooohhh, ok. I understand now.


I just don't believe you.

vote: el simo

[ThAdmiral]

I just don't believe you.

vote: el simo

So what do you believe?

I believe there is a discrepancy between what you are saying and what you have done. I think that you have been backed in to a corner by the early vote and are scrambling.

5 posts in a row doesn't help either, bro.

[ThAdmiral]

Do you want to explain that discrepancy or do you want to keep on being subtle and vague?

I believe you tried to make a "random" or jokey vote and you copped heat for it and are now trying to explain your way out of it.

[ThAdmiral]

Do you want to explain that discrepancy or do you want to keep on being subtle and vague?

I believe you tried to make a "random" or jokey vote and you copped heat for it and are now trying to explain your way out of it.

Right., the heat you put on me by saying my random vote wasn't random was just too much to bare. Gotcha.

This is a good point. For some reason I thought it was more than just me.

[ThAdmiral]

Actually I take that back. Sorasgoof and ortiz talk about it on page 3, and umbrage on page 4.

[ThAdmiral]

Do you want to explain that discrepancy or do you want to keep on being subtle and vague?

I believe you tried to make a "random" or jokey vote and you copped heat for it and are now trying to explain your way out of it.

This looks like an admission that the vote was legitimately RVS without any reasoning and now people are attacking el simo for it.

If he had admitted straight up it was a joke vote or a vote specifically to push the bandwagon I wouldn't have stayed on his case. He didn't.

I can't think of any scenario where I would lynch someone over a single vote.

This is a serious misrepresentation of the situation. It is the response to being pressured about that vote more than anything else.

[ThAdmiral]

Sorry for absence. Was unexpectedly busy last couple of days.

Umbrage and Admiral are still ignoring my questions. I don't ask them because I have nothing else to do. I want answers please.

Can you please restate the questions?

The person who earns my FoS the most is not El Simo, but thadmiral for deterring the wagon by placing a RVS on someone. Why not bandwagon at that point?

My vote wasn't random. I don't believe playing out the rvs for the rvs's sake is good play. I think the sooner a game gets out of the rvs the better. I don't think indiscriminate bandwagonning for the sake of a bandwagon is good.

ive done that on my alt
i dont do that on this
this is my VI account
get over itp

I don't know what this means but if you are intentionally playing badly just for the fun of it you piece of shit, you deserve to be banned from this site for all eternity.

This comes out a bit harsh, but I agree with the spirit of it. Ever since VI's became an accepted part of mafiascum the game has become less fun/skill based imo.

1. This is supposed to be a civil game. I don't give a shit about swearing, but ad hominem attacks and slurs have no place here. (I'm looking at you, Furcolow.) I don't want to see the word 'retard' or any deviation of it. It is both offensive and low-class.

You did call him a piece of shit.

I'm not so sure about my case on el simo anymore. His posting in the last 4 or so pages has been pretty good and has given me town-vibes. His defence of furc also strikes me as town. I can confirm that furc is like this in most games and while I don't like how he plays it still doesn't mean he should be lynched.

I don't like cyberbob (pushing furc policy lynch hard) and thirdkoopa (the weird instant unvote), but for now I will just

unvote

.

[ThAdmiral]

ThirdKoopa's List

1. ortiz1193 - Neutral
2. el simo - Town (Slight read + Gut on this)
3. ThAdmiral - Neutral
4. Furcolow - Neutral
5. Umbrage - Neutral
6. chamber - Town
7. sorasgoof - Town
8. InflatablePie - ??? (You replaced an inactive person so...)
9. Olinea - ???
10. Cyberbob - Neutral (Slight scum read but this is really gut feeling right now)
12. TheLonging - ???

You have no scum reads at all, other than one "slight scum read" based on gut? I find that hard to believe. And how do you not have any read on Pie? He's been interacting with you quite a bit. What makes you think chamber and I are more townie than anyone else? Your reads are quite similar to Furcolow's reads...

Then, we have the horrible vote on Umbrage (who, by the way, is now a neutral read for some reason), the unvote, and the subsequent burst in activity after being called out. I was already becoming suspicious of you in your ISO5, but everything since then has made you the most scummy player in the game at this point, in my opinion.

vote: Thirdkoopa

I don't condemn him as much for the lack of reads as he has quite a few people he has listed as town. As you point out, though, the fact that he voted umbrage because he was "seeing more of something in umbrage now unlike before" (from his post 223), which is a weird reason, and then had him as neutral in this list is suspicious.

Umbrage

was

the most suspicious in my eyes at the time of that post. I still think he can be scum.

Fair enough, but what happened to change him from a "likely scum" read to a "neutral" one?

[ThAdmiral]

Now I am suspicious for ortiz and pie.

Ortiz for buddying up to pie pretty heavily. Pie for pointing out the fact that ortiz is buddying (one could read "You're welcome, now stop sucking up to me please." as "dude, stop buddying up to me so obviously!"), and also for voting sora even though he is apparently 100% sure thirdkoopa is scum, because he is enjoying playing around with him or something.

vote: pie

[ThAdmiral]

Admiral: Nothing to say on Soras/TK/CB?

Sora - i think how he is gathering votes is suspicious
tk - i'm waiting to hear back from tk.
cb - he's not on my town list, but there are bigger fish at the moment.

[ThAdmiral]

k. Why?

The way that ortiz suddenly said he was suspicious of soras after umbrage had voted for him, and then you jumped on as well even though you were apparently 100% sure of 3k.

caution isn't a scumtell unless it's obvious that it's just waffling

seriously wtf do you people think (obviously not if you think caution is a bad thing)

I disagree
town are proven to be more reckless, scum more cautious
I can link you if you'd like.

This is becoming less reliable as more people know about this tell, which by now is a lot.

[ThAdmiral]

Pie for pointing out the fact that ortiz is buddying (one could read "You're welcome, now stop sucking up to me please." as "dude, stop buddying up to me so obviously!")

You can also read it as "I noticed you're buddying up to me and I am pointing it out". Just because oritz is buddying up to me does not make me scum by comparison (assuming in this case oritz is scum).

Thanks for responding. I suppose if there was buddying it would be scum-scum or scum-town, and ortiz would be the scum in both of those situations.

unvote

the problem with broadcasting your ~pure town reads~ is that (assuming you're town for a second) it tells scum who they can kill without being worried about eliminating a potential mislynch opportunity. it's anti-town as hell, dont do it please

While I don't disagree with this, one persons towntell may not be anyone elses. It only becomes a real problem imo if everyone starts doing it.

[ThAdmiral]

Ortiz (Wishy-washy on the matter)

Ortiz has actually been wishy-washy on a number of things. He voted el-simo at the start of the day, then flipped to having a slight-town read on el-simo and voted umbrage instead. Then he agreed with umbrage's vote on sora, but didn't take his vote off umbrage. Earlier he had expressed some suspicions of 3k (iso 20, 21), but when that wagon died down he decided that he wasn't suspicious of him any more (iso 23), and voted cyberbob instead.
He seems to be keeping his options open for most of the major wagons and has flip-flopped quite a few times.

vote: ortiz

[ThAdmiral]

Well put it in to context for me then.

[ThAdmiral]

ortiz: Was the first to go after el simo, but let the wagon drop when it was gathering momentum.

Doesn't buddy anyone

, doesn't distance anyone. Stays focused and picks up on good tells that I agree with most of the time. CONCLUSION: I'm trying to see the case on him, but I see his play as pretty solid town.

(bolding mine)
Have a read of him again. I think he buddy's IP man fairly obviously.

ThAdmiral: Jumps on the el simo wagon when it gains speed, jumps off without much ceremony.

He also blatantly copied Olinea's case on ortiz

. But these are the scummiest things he's done. CONCLUSION:

Needs to be more active

. It's hard to get a good read on him. The tells I found aren't really enough to warrant a vote, and there are bigger fish to fry.

(bolding mine)
I would say I expanded on something that Olinea mentioned about ortiz.
I am certainly trying to be more active, but as you can probably imagine it is a fairly busy time of year!

[ThAdmiral]

ThAdmiral, do you have nothing to say in response to me?

Soz, missed it.

My comments are inside and are bolded...

1)Ortiz has actually been wishy-washy on a number of things. 2)He voted el-simo at the start of the day, then flipped to having a slight-town read on el-simo and voted umbrage instead. 3)Then he agreed with umbrage's vote on sora, but didn't take his vote off umbrage. 4)Earlier he had expressed some suspicions of 3k (iso 20, 21), but when that wagon died down he decided that he wasn't suspicious of him any more (iso 23), and voted cyberbob instead.
He seems to be keeping his options open for most of the major wagons and has flip-flopped quite a few times.

vote: ortiz

1) I'm waiting on Olinea to actually point this out, and if he can't, then you just parroted his BS.

As I said to umbrage "I would say I expanded on something that Olinea mentioned about ortiz." My whole post detailed times that imo you had been wishy-washy though, so it wasn't BS.

2) Not wishy-washy. As soon as I figured out what el simo was saying, and why he wasn't scummy, it made Umbrage scummy for pushing it as hard as he was.

This actually makes sense so I will let it go, but I still find it a little funny that you would flip straight to umbrage. If you had been pushing el simo for a misunderstanding couldn't it have been possible umbrage was doing this as well?

3) The post in question:

^^good vote.

I'm content with my Umbrage vote at the moment, but TK is pretty scummy and I've had a bad feeling about Soras for a while. I'm really confident at least one of those 3 is scum. I'm gonna reread the 3 of them because I think I might prefer one of the other two lynches over Umbrage. Also, not sure what to think of CB. I get the scummiest vibe ever from him but I don't know if he's actually scum or if it's just his playstyle.

Note: Pie is not playing his scum meta at all. He could've changed, but I'm pretty convinced he's town at this point. I have a pretty good idea of what his scum meta is because I pretty much based mine off of it >_> (and I stalk his games).

Pretty sure it clearly says that I was suspicious of all of them, and I was going to reread, which is why I left my vote where it was.

Okay, now I understand why you left your vote where it was, but I am still somewhat suspicious of you for keeping your options open to go with whichever bandwagon picked up the most steam.

4) The "suspicions" mentioned:

Pie: Go ahead and give us the case on why TK is scum. I see his lack of pro-town vibes, but I didn't see anything that screams scum in the ISO.

The scummiest thing TK has done is unvote as soon as you pressure him like that - he majorly caved right there.

I'm content with my Umbrage vote at the moment, but TK is pretty scummy and I've had a bad feeling about Soras for a while.

This is my favorite part. The first quote is hardly showing suspicion compared to the second one, where I did show suspicion. The second post is #324. Remember that reread I said I was going to do? Yeah, that happened 5 posts after this one. 5. So tell me please how the TK wagon "died down" in the 5 posts in between my suspicion and me saying that I don't think he's scum. Hint: It didn't. I reread the game, like I said I was going to in the previous post, and like I said in the post where I said TK was town.

Admiral added the "but when that wagon died down he decided that he wasn't suspicious of him any more" just to put me in a negative light. Misrepping, taking out of context, whatever you want to call it.

I reread your post in which you voted cyberbob, and it does seem more like an honest re-evaluation of your suspicions than anything nefarious

unvote

I have fucking no idea in this game.

What the hell is this? The bit about 'it makes more sense now', what IS that?? It looks like a softclaim to me.

So you admit it was a softclaim?

Dude, if you think he's softclaimed don't ask him to elaborate!

[ThAdmiral]

You're really trying to play that off as questioning a weird statement rather than rolefishing?

REALLY?

I'd like to hear outside opinions on that. I've rarely seen more obvious rolefishes.

This.

Also I'm going to stick my neck out and say that I think soras is probably town. He seems genuinely frustrated.

[ThAdmiral]

Also I'm going to stick my neck out and say that I think soras is probably town. He seems genuinely frustrated.

He probably is genuinely frustrated. But that doesn't mean he's town.

His reactions feel like they are frustrated town rather than frustrated scum imo. My gut isn't very good at telling me who is scum but it is pretty good at telling me whether frustrated reactions are town, for what its worth.

3k and Cyberbob really need to post. Having done a quick reread those are the two I would feel most comfortable lynching.

vote: thirdkoopa

[ThAdmiral]

I don't know I've never been one to use my gut in this game, Admiral. If a tell is committed and my gut tells me not to vote him I'm only going to be distracted by him as long as he is alive.

Scum tell is scum tell, gut feeling or no. My vote stays.

Oh I am totally with you as far as scum tell>gut. In fact I hardly use my gut because, as you say, it can distract you and make you second guess yourself. I don't think I've ever voted someone based solely on gut.
But... I feel like I have an ok-to-good handle on whether someone voicing their frustrations are doing so as town or as scum. In this case I believe sora is town.

[ThAdmiral]

I don't want to lynch sora and I don't wan't to lynch furc.
I would be happy with a tk lynch, and I would join a cyberbob lynch.
I could probably also be convinced to join an umbrage or ortiz lynch at deadline if needed to.

[ThAdmiral]

I've had enough. One more personal attack like that and you will be modkilled.

Thanks for stepping in. Things were getting out of hand.

As I said before I believe soras is town. He's not acting like caught scum he's acting like fed up town. I'm ashamed to admit I acted something like this earlier in my career.

edit: and now I see he has added content. Fairly decent content too.

I'd also like to hear more from Admiral. I don't necessarily think he's scum, but he's falling under the radar too and I like his opinions and voice so far. I'd just like more contribution from that direction.

I'm trying to get on and post at least once a day with my thoughts, but sometimes that isn't possible.

What was your question regarding chamber?

@ furc: if you are miller why didn't you claim at the start of the day?

Deadline has been extended one week due to this incident.

Thanks for this too!

[ThAdmiral]

To be honest, I just did this as a reaction test. I formally retract my claim, and welcome all investigation attempts.

Anyway, claiming miller for a reaction test? That's one of the worst reasons I've ever heard to back out of a claim. What, if I may ask, were the results of your test?

This.

[ThAdmiral]

Does anyone with meta on Olinea know if they are active as scum?

I've played one game with Olinea before. Was town in that one and is playing similar imo.

Never been Mafia.

Lol, never mind then.

I view ThAdmiral as scum, and do not intend to be on a wagon with him. I don't view him as the bussing type of scum either, though now I've turned that into WIFOM haven't I? He probably won't even read this, anyways. Sorry if that is below the belt. He is lurker scum, and that's what he's doing here.

I didn't read this.

Seriously though all I can do is disagree with this. As I said I am trying to get on and post at least once a day as that is pretty much all I have time for. Back at work after the christmas break and all that.

Now would you be so kind as to answer fugitive's question. Just so you don't come back and say "what question?" it's this one:

To be honest, I just did this as a reaction test. I formally retract my claim, and welcome all investigation attempts.

Anyway, claiming miller for a reaction test? That's one of the worst reasons I've ever heard to back out of a claim. What, if I may ask, were the results of your test?

[ThAdmiral]

when i claimed miller i was being facetious honestly
it was more of an "i'll probably end up as the miller" as a townie
do townies ever know they're the miller?
news to me

Seriously?

[ThAdmiral]

@ zdanek: I'm not going to ask you to list every single point against me but can you elaborate on why you think I am scum a bit more? Especially the point about post 308.

[ThAdmiral]

- It seemed pretty clear to me that el simo was going to take heat for his "random" vote, but ThAdmiral votes el simo using the ridiculous third on the wagon scum tell. This is playing it safe because it builds a backdoor right into the vote. This vote as a way for him to draw attention to el simo's "random vote" without having to push a case.

It was suspicious to me because he said it was a random vote that just happened to be the third on a wagon.

- Later he casts suspicion on Ortiz and Pie, and both cases are lame. He unvotes as soon as this is pointed out to him. Next he decides to vote Ortiz for being wishy-washy, which is another lame case. Ortiz points this out to him and he unvotes again.

This feels to me as though he doesn't really believe that the people he is building cases against are scum because he is happy to let them off once they explain themselves to him.

If I feel someone can explain their actions adequately to me I will unvote them. If someone explains their actions to me and I don't buy it I won't unvote them.

- He accuses chamber of playing coy, which I think is mudslinging considering that it was completely unnecessary since chamber had already provided reasons for his vote.

It sounded like he was being evasive. I hate it when you ask someone a question and they pretend not to know it was addressed at them. In this case though he

actually

didn't know it was addressed at him.

- He accuses Umbrage of backtracking regarding how fast he wants people to post. This is another example of mudslinging because there is no scum motivation for what Umbrage did that I can think of.

I already believed Umbrage's earlier point about people disappearing was bs, and this just made it seem even more so. I called him on it.

Also, as Furcolow has already pointed out, he later "This's" the post of someone he thinks is scum, who is attacking someone who he just unvoted, and who he is about to vote again. To me this shows a lack of sincerity in his vote and unvote on el simo and his vote on Umbrage.

A good point is a good point, no matter where it comes from. I was going to say the same thing but someone had already said it for me.

He says that there is a discrepancy between what el simo is saying and what he has done. I think this choice of words was designed to paint el simo as scummy, when asked to explain what the discrepancy is he says that he thinks el simo made a random or jokey vote, copped heat for it and that he is now trying to explain his way out of it. I think this is exactly what is happening, but there is no discrepancy.

You must have missed the bit where el simo specifically stated, about 10 times, that it wasn't a random vote.

ISO17 (Post 308):
Pro-town fluff: "I don't believe playing out the rvs for the rvs's sake is good play. I think the sooner a game gets out of the rvs the better. I don't think indiscriminate bandwagonning for the sake of a bandwagon is good."

"This comes out a bit harsh, but I agree with the spirit of it. Ever since VI's became an accepted part of mafiascum the game has become less fun/skill based imo."

Pro-town fluff is a bit harsh. I was stating my views on how I play the game after being questioned about them.

[ThAdmiral]

- We need to lynch someone already. This deadline extension is making the day drag (IMO) and the game is getting boooooring.

It's all the replacements. It sucks to wait around for people to replace in, and it especially sucks when the person you are voting replaces out.

That being said there's nothing we can do but wait for a full roster of players.

[ThAdmiral]

I'm ok with lynching him to prove a point
I only know my alignment

This comes across as really wrong.
Do you think he is scum?

[ThAdmiral]

I'm ok with lynching him to prove a point
I only know my alignment

This comes across as really wrong.
Do you think he is scum?

My point is I don't have to believe anyone is scum to be willing to lynch them, because there is noone I can be sure of that is scum.

Is there anyone you wouldn't be willing to lynch?

[ThAdmiral]

Oops, but my mudslinging accusation still stands.

This comes across as really wrong.

Good to see that ThAdmiral is still mudslinging.

p.s. your play is bad, ad

Thanks for the critique

[ThAdmiral]

I don't mind the length of day, I do mind that only half of the playing group seems to be actively posting at any one time.

@ el simo: I think your case on olinea is a bit of a stretch.

@ Emma bunton: he definitely is a good deadline lynch, the only thing muddying the waters is that he apparently asked to be replaced out and has, as far as I can tell, disappeared from the site.

[ThAdmiral]

@ tk: so were you scum or what?

[ThAdmiral]

My reads are:
-Town-
el simo - after the weird random-vote thing at the start posted well and looked to be genuinely scum-hunting
Olinea - asked good questions, formed reads and stuck to them
Fugitive - spoke his mind, came across as genuine

-Neutral-
Baby Spice - hasn't said enough for a proper read
Furcolow - said some weird stuff, said some good stuff. I'm not too sure if he is scum or town

-Scum-
Zdenek - replaced scumbrage, the unexplained +s and +t stuff was suspicious, and after initial burst of activity seemed to fade in to the background
InflatablePie - interesting interactions with ortiz, spent majority of day 1 attacking sorasgoof and 3k who were both town, as per his own argument being on the 3k wagon when it got to 4 makes it likely for him to be scum
Otiz1193 - interesting interactions with ip, wishy-washiness - I also found this:

I still don't like Olinea's play. He rarely posts and avoids all major wagons when he does. I mentioned this earlier but I'm pretty sure I got no responses from anyone on the matter.

Is there anything you want me to comment on? I realize the activity could be better but I think anything major that's happened I've given my views on it.

Which major wagons have I avoided? I've had soras pegged as town for a while and nothing else major jumps to mind.

Nothing specific. The problem is you play exactly like I used to as scum.

You post in a really protown style and then avoid voting for the people who are under suspicion to avoid voting for a mislynch, which makes you look more town.

For example, we had like 4 scum candidates at one point that everyone's attention was on, you posted and called Soras town and then voted Umbrage (who wasn't suspicious at the time.) It's just a style I'm familiar with and it makes you seem likely scum to me.

Note that he left his vote on cyberbob for the majority of the day. Not only was cyberbob town but he got up to a grand total of 2 whole votes at one point. I would say he was "avoiding voting for the people who are under suspicion".

[ThAdmiral]

vote: ortiz

[ThAdmiral]

Did you not read the bit about ortiz doing exactly what he says he does as scum?

[ThAdmiral]

Sorry that was to Ipie

[ThAdmiral]

Wow, after that long day 1 and then me getting lynched the next day I thought we had little chance.
Excellent job fugi and ortiz.

I'd be your wingscum anytime!

[ThAdmiral]

Great quickhammer lynch at the end there guys.

[ThAdmiral]

Douchiness goes a long way to putting everyone offside with you.