Mini 1094 - Mariposa Peak Mafia - Game Over!

[Nachomamma8]

What's up, everyone?

Vote: AGar

Agreeing with Thor that your vote on Guderian thoroughly sucked. Your ISO #8 sold it for me, though.

I can't imagine scum ballsy enough to have a scumlist of Seraph, Thor, and AGar, so I'm not really willing to lynch Carrotcake just yet.

[Nachomamma8]

BTW carrotcake is at L-2 now if my math is correct, so CC should IMO claim now

No. This is ridiculous.

[Nachomamma8]

AGar - No, that's not my problem with ISO #8.

There is scum in the mix of Gud/BQ/PR/sims. Potentially multiple. Possibly all, not likely. The wagons evened out too quickly, like "Oh shit, no bus, no bus."

I'm leaning sims & BQ. If a third, Gud.

Wagons are 4-4 atm (me/Sims).

Go BQ first. If BQ flips scum, then Sims.

This is my problem with ISO #8. This declaration came out of absolutely nowhere, and you don't explain it as if it didn't. And it sets up for some mighty fine wagon hopping; your previous two suspicions are still on the list, so if Thor pursued Powerrox or the Guderian wagon, you'd still be fine. But here's the clincher- you magic a connection between BQ and sims, then vote for BQ. This allows you to stay off the sims lynch until the bandwagon gets large, and then you can simply say that sims and BQ were scumbuddies anyways and vote for sims.

Then, your "connection":

Sims wagon was at 4, mine was at 3 and had recently pulled ahead. BQ, while posting about everything else, stuck her vote on my wagon, bringing them back to a tie scenario. If I had to pick out 3, I'd say sims was their scum buddy, Gud put a 3rd vote on him to look like a bit of pressure, PR (town in this scenario) puts his vote on sims to make it 4 and then BQ panics at the wagon actually pulling ahead and votes me to tie them back up.

BQ tying the wagon would not be a scumtell at all UNLESS sims was scum. But who does he vote for? The person WITHOUT a wagon on them. Smells doubly like a bus to me. Not only does this let him push a lynch on BQ once sims dies, but it also gives him an excuse to stay off the wagon.

[Nachomamma8]

I can never read Reckamonic due to dram's chronic lurking dominating the hydra. Depends on the AGar case; if it's like their case on Guderian, I can probably safely call this slot scum.

You and Seraphim both read town to me, although I think that you're both focusing on your tops a little too much. It'd be great if you looked for other scum on the wagon, and he looked for ones off of them.

Sims is scum for voting Guderian for claiming SK to ensure at least one scum survived to the endgame.

SS reads scummy for the huge argument with CC then an immedite jump onto the Guderian wagon.

I'm still wondering what the hell PR was thinking with the L-2 claim demand.

BQ is town. I like her followup on the AGar vote.

[Nachomamma8]

Conversely, sims wouldn't be scum unless BQ was trying to save him from what I gathered. And how is pushing for the player without a wagon constitute a bus? You're kidding right?

BQ wouldn't be scum unless sims was because there's absolutely no reason for scumBQ to even out two townie wagons, is there? Also, it seemed like you were setting up for the bus.

Honestly, Nacho pegging almost half of the remaining players as scum (Myself, sims, SS, and reckamonic) and then calling a slot with little-to-no actual activity town is laughable at best.

Four players = scumteam + 1 extra. What's wrong with a margin of error, again?

BQ has posted enough for me to get a town read on her, just like she's posted enough for you to get a scumread.

[Nachomamma8]

Gonna be gone for a little while, but things need to be said.

I read this earlier and read it again now - I'm still too dense to get it. Could you expand on this for me please?

I was referring to sims's #15, which seemed like a terrible reaching reason that he KNEW was bad, as evidenced by the need to put the disclaimer on it beforehand.

If I'm scum and I see a townie wagon pulling ahead of another, and I even them out, it looks like I'm stopping a bus. By your logic, then we should lynch the countered wagonee and if he flips scum, lynch me. If he flips town, I'm out of said suspicion.

Neither way is foolproof, and it may have been naive of me to believe that such a theory held it's own, but based on how the wagons gained such ground - sims with actual seeming intent to lynch, mine with a handful of random votes - it comes across plausibly to me, and I believe I've more than sufficiently explained it.

First of all, my logic doesn't push for a lynch based on wagons being evened out like yours does.
Second of all, it doesn't make sense for BQ to even out two townie wagons like that because yours was the wagon with the least amount of support. It doesn't make sense from a scum perspective, unless she was trying to frame you (which doesn't make sense), to even out two townie wagons when 1 has serious support behind it and the other is just a bunch of random voters who are behind the time a little. It also doesn't make sense to go after BQ for evening the wagons because there is nothing inherrantly wrong with evening out wagons.

Meant to include that the BQ scumread was based off of the timing, nature and attitude of that one vote. That's why I'm laughing at a townread based off of "posting." Scumread wasn't based off of posting, it was based off of the vote and situations surrounding it.

You based an entire scumread off a single vote, on you, that just occured a little after the RVS? If so, you really shouldn't be calling anyone's reasoning weak.
But anyways, I found that BQ responded to attacks against her just fine, and her drifting away from the thread didn't seem like she was avoiding anything, just that she was busy/losing interest.

and grouping a lot of suspects with mobility.

What do you mean by that? Are you saying that I'm positioned to hop onto any bandwagon I like, or...?

Why is Sims specifically scum out of that group? I'd pick anyone besides him based off the reaction.

PR wins the "most likely to be town based on the Guderian wagon" award, sorry.

I'd like to hear something really concrete.

Why not post something concrete instead of waiting for all of the work to be done for you?

[Nachomamma8]

oh yeah.

Five Day Deadline Extension: YES

Thor, GET MORE AGGRESSIVE.
You sounded like my kindergarten teacher in #429, for god's sakes.

Carrot's absence does not bode well. I feel a disturbance in the force.

You think she's trying to lurk away the pressure?

[Nachomamma8]

Reck, doesn't it make sense for me to let the person you made the case on respond first...?

[Nachomamma8]

Sorry mothrax, we've had a frightful problem with murders lately, so good hospitality isn't on the top of our lists... Welcome to you anyways, though!

Thor, mind hammering that deadline extension? Inactivity due to V/LAs right now is dreadful.

PR, ok.

[Nachomamma8]

You got lucky and replaced the townie. The other guy is scum, along with AGar and singersinger.

Mothrax and PR are definitely town.
Seraphim and Thor are probably town.
Watch Reckamonic closely.

[Nachomamma8]

Reck, it seems you've missed something...

Mothrax and PR are definitely town.

sims scum (main posts of interest below):

I am going to go with a loose theory here; as a n00b, any and all are welcome to point out holes and inaccuracies (and in Thor's case, annoyances with CAPS and posting etiquette). I'm starting to think maybe Gud is scum and claiming SK in hopes that we'd offer allegiance (as CarrotCake has done), thus ensuring the survival of at least one scum to endgame. Other people have pointed out some scummy behavior from CC; it would make sense that she, as scum, would try to jumpstart a ridiculous campaign to offer him sanctuary and use him as anti-scum rather than anti-town. Thoughts?

Unvote
Vote: Guderian

This is almost as tin-foil hatty as AGar's BQ theory!

AGar - You presume correctly.

Sorry for stirring the waters everybody. I would like the point out that as suspicious as my (apparent) overreaction may seem to you, there is something to be said for an overreaction to an overreaction (not to get too circular here). Which is the point I was trying to make about confid.

Confid your argument is weak. Checking in with a post is hardly a scum tell, it's staying active in the game. I think maybe it's a fair argument to make, but on its own it lacks substance. That is why I "overreacted". I was surprised that you would consider something like that a scum tell.

AGar I'm still not sure what your case is on BQ. You've been awfully quiet, save for your initial "vote" on Gud (whom you conveniently forgot to actually vote for...)

I'm also not a fan of Power jumping on the anti-me bandwagon by just simply restating all the aforementioned weak arguments. Making an RVS vote when we were "clearly" out of RVS stage was perhaps a newb mistake (even though I still see nothing wrong with it as I hadn't, at that point, had much information to go on for anything), but to blow it up into such a big thing is suspicious and opportunistic.

...and the rest of the overreaction with Confid. What really pings my scumdar about it is that it lacks a vote to accompany the reaction.

Seraphim is town for his behavior on the Guderian wagon, and for the debates with CC.

[Nachomamma8]

SERAPHIM I SEE YOU

[Nachomamma8]

SERAPHIM I SAW YOU AGAIN

[Nachomamma8]

Seraphim.

All I ask from you is one post. One.

I want to have faith in you again, Sera. I really do.

I'll even vote your song #1 in that music contest thingy...

[Nachomamma8]

@Nacho: While we can buy the fact that sims was, as you put it, "tin-foil hatty", we can easily chalk that up to newbish nerves, or overeagerness, or something to that effect. Meanwhile, AGar has been around long enough to know better than that. His play here compared to his play in Reck's Lost games (which dram played in) are completely different. Something is definitely off.

Well, iam's play will show us who's right and whose wrong, I guess. As for the whole AGar thing... Honey, you're preaching to the choir. I pegged him as scum before you did...

PS, we're not liking how you tell Lateralus that sims, AGar, and singersinger are the scumteam… but then tell him, in the very same post, to 'watch Reckamonic closely'. Reasons?

No one is 100% accurate all the time, right? And would you have minded if I told him to watch Powerrox closely instead of you?

FoS: mothrax

Mothrax and PR are definitely town.

>.>

[Nachomamma8]

Love is the emotion that flowed through my veins when Seraphim finally posted.

[Nachomamma8]

Now onto Day 2, her vote is awful. Exactly man, who does try to make an alliance with an Sk? You're berated her for being unorthodox, what is the scum motivation for this? Sure you did explain later but what you're saying is fundamentally wrong. You're using words like "unintelligible" and "unexperienced as a method to discredit here. But here's the thing, CC joined this forum in 2007 so that shows can't even be bothered to get your facts right.

I love this line, Just because you claim something is omgus, doesn't make it true. This is exactly what you just did to me right here. You immediately attacked me and accused me of OMGUS as a method to discredit to, the hostility you've shown reads more as defensive scum because you don't have some giant case against CC, you weren't even confident enough in your vote to keep it over your V/LA with the whole my vote is useless over V/LA!" scene. Look at the last line of the last link in this post, this is a baseless attack. This is affront to discredit me when I was obviously just trying to get reads, communicating directly with people helps immensely with that.

Is it just me, or is everyone missing this chunk of the case?

And no one's commented on SS's discrediting tactics...

[Nachomamma8]

Hi, it doesn't appear to have been announced by the mod yet, but I'm replacing sims. I've got my role PM and everything, so I assume it's OK for me to start posting.

Might not have time for full and proper analysis until tomorrow, but basically, hell no to Carrotcake lynch. Yesterday, someone was lynched for refusing to conform to site norms, and also for being kind of a dick. If you don't believe that scum had any involvement in this, then I don't even know what to say. Of course they did.

So, today, we have Carrotcake, one of the few people who was not on the Guderian lynch, acting like kind of a dick, refusing to conform to site norms, and hey look, a whole bunch of the same people who mislynched Guderian are now trying to lynch him too. That sure sounds like a winning strategy to me.

VOTE: AGar

I'd also happily vote for Seraphim or POWER OX, who were also on both Guderian and Carrotcake wagons, but it's clearly a two horse race today, so the decision is obvious.

Seraphim how can you get a town read off this?

[Nachomamma8]

I'd switch over for a singer wagon, but I strongly prefer the AGar wagon.

[Nachomamma8]

Is there any reason that you aren't refuting Reckamonic's case other than laziness?

Lat comes in, votes one way, then after realizing pressure isn't getting off of him he votes on the next largest wagon.

What?
Lat came in, pushed a case on singer, then voted you when it was ignored. When mothrax votes for singersinger lately, he immediately switches over to her, even though she has a smaller wagon than you. That doesn't symbolize panic of any kind, so I seriously don't know what you're seeing...

PREVIEW EDIT:

However, if he feels he has a claim which might prevent his lynch(which I think he does, hence his refusal to claim now that his wagon is dying),

>.>
<.<

[Nachomamma8]

While I could swing for a Sera wagon, I don't really think that now is that time. We have three days to lynch and I feel much much stronger about AGar being scum. That being said, I do disagree with your read on the SS/CC fight, but I'll get into that tomorrow if AGar isn't hammered by then. Got to make this brief for now.

[Nachomamma8]

I want AGar lynched, but I want Seraphim to hammer.

[Nachomamma8]

I'd rather have seraphim hammer even if he wasn't. Iamusername should wait as long as he can before hammering, but shouldn't let it pass deadline if he can help it. In fact...

There is a 5 day extension. You guys may still vote for the three day extension by the normal Deadline Extension vote.

Three day extension: yes.

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: Deadline Extension

You know, I would read the rules if you put the living players list in the FIRST POST

[Nachomamma8]

If I explain why it's important it'll spoil the fun. Thor should be able to explain it tomorrow if I'm NK'ed tonight, though.

[Nachomamma8]

DEFINITELY 100% what Lat says. We're ready and willing, we're just waiting for you to hammer.

And don't you try to hide or we will turn this wagon around on your ass.

[Nachomamma8]

he's still stalling...

[Nachomamma8]

I see you Seraphim... Does it really take 5 minutes to post Vote: AGar?

[Nachomamma8]

I would prefer to go straight to no-lynch, no massclaim. Players with guilty results should obviously come out immediately, but on account of no PRs flipping yet, I think it's a safe guess that we'll at least be able to fix things into some sort of one on one situation tomorrow.

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: No Lynch

[Nachomamma8]

Vanilla claim by singer takes out the possibility of a mafia ninja. I would assume that's why he didn't vote in his first post.

[Nachomamma8]

No Lat, please claim.

SS, he already claimed a watcher result on you targeting mothrax, who is now dead. You claimed vanilla. Now, all possibilities other than you being fakeclaiming townie + mafia ninja have been taken care of, and if that's the case, then I would probably kill you.

I targeted him because of a vibe I got...I dunno

This is what bothered me earlier. Seraphim, you know what gut is.

The theatrics don't bother me. The theatrics are a call back to the old Seraphim, the anime avatar Seraphim.

[Nachomamma8]

The first half of this sounds like it's responding to something I said, but I don't know what.

I'm responding to you commenting how you'd like to know how Seraphim knows you're scum.

The second half is incomplete in explanation. What other possibilities are you referring to, and have you already assumed that I'm lying then? This isn't a themed game. Mafia ninja shouldn't even be a possibility.

I'm referring to the possibility of you AND Seraphim being town. No, I haven't.

You may fool the rest of town, but you don't fool me.

I certainly hope he doesn't! He's calling you scum in LyLo...

The only thing that is really bothering me now (meh, guess the theatrics can be forgiven) is the fact that Seraphim chose to watch mothrax… who would CERTAINLY not have been our first pick to be watched were we watcher.

Bothering me infinitely more was the fact that mothrax died when you were his only target. But you did claim it, and I sure as hell wouldn't if I were scum in your position so that's some townie points in your direction.

[Nachomamma8]

Vanilla Townie here.

I don't think Powerrox has claimed yet.

[Nachomamma8]

Ummm... am I the only one who doesn't have the slightest trace of an idea as to what's going on?

[Nachomamma8]

IMO, we need to lynch between Powerrox & Seraphim today.

RECK YOU'RE MAKING ME WANT TO TURN TO DRUGS WHAT IS THIS SHIT

[Nachomamma8]

We have a confirmed scum in between singersinger and Seraphim regardless of everything else.

Why would you want to lynch OUTSIDE this that just makes me angry.

[Nachomamma8]

What am I missing, here?

We have a confirmed scum in between singersinger and Seraphim regardless of everything else.

We have a confirmed scum in between singersinger and Seraphim regardless of everything else.

We have a confirmed scum in between singersinger and Seraphim regardless of everything else.

We have a confirmed scum in between singersinger and Seraphim regardless of everything else.

Thor, jailkeep is typicially just roleblock + protect. The jailkeeping you're thinking of is non-normal.

The beautiful Razor of love and life says that Seraphim is scum. Scum getting guilties to get town players lynched in MyLo is not uncommon, and Lat's counterwatcher claim is supported by being confirmed by Powerrox. If that's the case, I'd be willing to clear singer and Lat of being scum, but not PR.

The only thing that's holding me back from this theory is Reckamonic. Reck knows better not to do crap like this, so I can't help but feel like he's trying to protect singersinger. In this situation, singer/Lat/Reck would be scum. Seraphim gets guilty on singer, Lat protects her with the counterwatcher claim, and Reck tries to get Seraphim lynched in the whole scenario. Lat would be a scum PR that got roleblocked in this case.

I still don't know. I'm not seeing any chance at all of Reck and Seraphim being buddies in this case, though.

@Thor: Missed your question before. No, it looks genuine to me.

[Nachomamma8]

DH, you'd make a good living as a politician.

[Nachomamma8]

PR, why does breadcrumbing make you so angry...?

[Nachomamma8]

PR, unvote right now.

[Nachomamma8]

If you're wrong, you could be losing the entire game for town.
Although Reckamonic is scummy, yes, he's not the lynch for today.

Please unvote.

[Nachomamma8]

So, I've done some thinking about this. And I really, really think singer is scum.

Seraphim's claim is what did it for me. First of all, he chose watcher to push the guilty on which is in no way a typical scum-with-a-guilty claim. It's also a bit of a bad scum with a guilty claim, since if he's lying about the power, there are plenty of things that could've targetted mothrax last night and fucked everything up. And since nothing but vanilla townies have claimed at this point, there was plenty of possibility for things. Then, there's the fact he was counterclaimed. Again, Watcher isn't the most common of roles, and I think the chances of scumSeraphim choosing an investigative role that was already in the town, especially since it's a watcher, is pretty unlikely.

Then, there's singer's reaction to Seraphim's claim. The thing that really gets me is her whole "I'd love to see exactly how you determined me as scum" rampage, which doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

...and Reck has seemed pretty damn scummy to us to this point, so him siding with singersinger (former suspect) really does wonders for the confidence in this.

Vote: singersinger

[Nachomamma8]

Someone hammer and end this game please.

Lat, please unvote.

[Nachomamma8]

There was a Zorblag game that had two trackers. I'd like to check if it was normal or theme.
Hence the unvote request.

[Nachomamma8]

Unvote, Vote: Seraphim

Lat, go on and hammer.

Reck, the scumslip doesn't make sense. Scumteams don't find people scummy.

[Nachomamma8]

Unvote

WHAT THE FUCK I DONT WANT TO FOLLOW DRUNK RECK

[Nachomamma8]

I'm not convinced in Reck-town. But you make a good point.

Vote: Seraphim

[Nachomamma8]

hammer away

[Nachomamma8]

WHO THE FUCK IS DOM

[Nachomamma8]

I TOLD YOU WE SHOULD'VE WENT WITH SINGER

[Nachomamma8]

SINGER WHY ARE YOU POSTING IN CAPS WHAT THE FUCK

[Nachomamma8]

guys I think we just lynched scum.

in what might've been the best LyLo scumlynch ever.

[Nachomamma8]

STOP PRETENDING YOU'RE TOWN.

STOP BEING DENSE.

[Nachomamma8]

No, not with a watcher crawling around.

[Nachomamma8]

V/LA for 24 hrs

Noted.

[Nachomamma8]

V/LA lasting longer than expected, but I will make a post in here tomorrow.

[Nachomamma8]

SINGER WHY THE FUCK WOULD I VOTE WHEN V/LA THAT DOESN'T EVEN MAKE SENSE.

Anyways,

Vote: Reckamonic

.
PR is confirmed town at this point.
Reckamonic is the only possible buddy for Thor. I don't see anyone calling PR scum, so I'd say that Reckamonic is the only possible buddy for me.
Meaning he must be scum. Meaning that he won't be helpful to town regardless, so we might as well just take him out.

If I'm missing something, go on and tell me.

[Nachomamma8]

Wait before hammering, just ask me one question:

What's wrong with my reasoning? Do you honestly think Thor and I are scum together?

[Nachomamma8]

The last post should say answer, not ask.

And yeah, I'd rather Reckamonic lynched today because a Reckscumflip incriminates Thor a hell of a lot more than it does me, and you're having trouble reading good old Thor. And luckily, Reck is fairly obvious scum.

V/LA lasting longer than expected, but I will make a post in here tomorrow.

Fuck this shit.

Vote: Nacho

If we're wrong, gg scum.

multiple synchronized real life issues, please standby.

So, let me get this straight: He votes me in LyLo because he's angry at my site-wide V/LA, then promptly goes V/LA himself? This is hypocritical, and makes absolutely no sense whatsoever from a town perspective.

And let's not forget this wonderful contradiction:

It's possible for us to pull through with a scumlynch here, but we could literally see anybody being scum EXCEPT for Nachomamma8.

LAT I JUST POINTED OUT WHY NACHOMAMMA IS SCUM AND SERAPHIM IS HIS BUDDY HE'S TRYING TO HELP WIN THE GAME WITH

PLZ REVOTE

[Nachomamma8]

1. How exactly is it incriminating of Thor more than you?
2. How the FUCK does that make you look any better?

Seraphim - 4(singersigner,

Nachomamma8

, Lateralus22,

Reckamonic

)

BOTH scum bussing their claimed guilty partner in LyLo?
No.

He wasn't angry at you specifically, he was just frustrated at the lack of participation. And you're the one saying he's mad at your lylo. Personally, I think he was just impatient, but that's just me. You trying to pin a case on him isn't helping.

He voted me directly after I announced V/LA, while quoting my V/LA. So what else am I supposed to think he's voting me for?

This is a misrep, too, considering those quotes were time-stamped at completely different times in the game. The second was AFTER Recka had pointed out your scumslip...or are you so conveniently forgetting that one?

You mean the scumslip that I refuted in #730, which he never responded to?

[Nachomamma8]

Good game, everyone!

[Nachomamma8]

And I'll have to let the others release that.

[Nachomamma8]

I didn't think the setup was unbalanced.

Personally, I think that if the scum organized LyLo better, that we would've won.
But we didn't, and town took advantage of our weakness quite nicely.

[Nachomamma8]

http://www.quicktopic.com/44/H/arGtjiP4BUv

There you go.

[Nachomamma8]

@Nacho - Seraph's play was planned though, yes? I'm guessing you guys didn't know that Lat was a Watcher, but the play to push through a singer mislynch seemed pretty clear and functional. It was a good move at the time.

The problem is we DID know Lat was a watcher.
We didn't know Powerrox would strengthen Lat's claim with the roleblock claim.

[Nachomamma8]

I don't even know anymore, Lat.

[Nachomamma8]

Pumpernickel?

shhh with talk about breadcrumbing