Mini 1082 (Guns and Ropes: Midland): An Unfaithful Ending.

[MacavityLock]

Confirmed yo.

[MacavityLock]

VOTE: jimfinn
You'll find many of my posts filled with pointless sarcasm, and I can foresee conflict over this issue. Plus sarcasm is how some people express themselves and I hate people who manipulate it into a scum tell.
Gogo RVS bandwagon!

What I like least about this is how general it is. You're not talking so much about this specific game as how you use see failure to read sarcasm as a scumtell in general. Calling it a "RVS bandwagon" is a problem for me too; the whole lack-of-responsibility thing. Even mid-page 2, I wouldn't call the stuff going on right now in this game "random". I'mma VOTE: Enigma.

It makes the most sense to lynch LynchMePls and I shall leave my vote on him until he is lynched.

On a scale of 1 to 10, how serious are you about this?

[MacavityLock]

Mcavitylock- I'd say I am about 40% serious. I mean the dude does sucks as town.

So do a lot of people, they just don't have it on their sigs. If you're any serious about it, why didn't you dig into other people's records?

My play style is like this, learn to love or hate it, it's not going to change.

I don't see a playstyle yet, I just see someone who isn't interesting in taking responsibility for his vote. P.S. There's no such thing as a RVS, every vote has a purpose, it's just a matter of figuring out what that purpose is.

Furthermore, saying that someone is piggybacking on the arguments of others has no meaning unless there is a

very

extensive pattern of this behavior.

So, are any other tells disallowed early game? What tells

are

allowed early game?

moose also confuses me with his pointless banter. It's quite infuriating as I can't tell if he's town or scum from it.

Then why bring it up?

[MacavityLock]

Prodded. Past couple days have been very busy, sorry. Enigma and jimfinn are the right guys to look at. Not convinced about gonanno yet. Moose, stop trolling and answer questions. Content soon.

[MacavityLock]

I disagree with you and I have no clue what your questing was that you think I'm dodging.

@moose200x = Why are you joining a bandwagon you don't know the reason for?

That is correct.

Does anyone know why this bandwagon is rolling?

P.S. All aboard the lynch train!

No, I asked WHY, not if you were. Please answer the question.

This is an important question!

[MacavityLock]

I enjoy good bandwagons. Puts some pressure on people and it forces people to make a stand.

OK, but you changed your vote to gonnano at that time, when he had a single vote. Why not move your vote to either Enigma or jimfinn, who both had 3 votes at that time? Why was that 2-person (after you voted) bandwagon better than any of the others?

[MacavityLock]

I jumped in at the START of a bandwagon, I wanted to be a leader for once

Why do you care if you're early or late on a wagon? As town, if you think you've have a good case against scum, what does it matter when you join the wagon?

Let's say I never won as town, ever. But i've never loss as mafia. Would you want to lynch me if you were town?

Not really. It means you're more dangerous, not more likely to be mafia. It's someone to keep an eye on, not auto-lynch.

Now stop whining and play the game. Do you really not find anything scummy thus far?

----

I still think Enigma and jimfinn are best bets for scum.

jimfinn

In a previous post, you placed charter fairly high on a scum rating list. I would still like to hear why you think charter is scummy.

This is a good question.

Other possibilities: I don't like Prokhor's moose vote in 130 much. Also, RBT needs to show up and do stuff. I'm not particularly enamored of either big bandwagon right now.

@mod

, please check if the votecount in 165 is completely correct. Thanks.

[MacavityLock]

My play style is like this, learn to love or hate it, it's not going to change.

I don't see a playstyle yet, I just see someone who isn't interesting in taking responsibility for his vote. P.S. There's no such thing as a RVS, every vote has a purpose, it's just a matter of figuring out what that purpose is.

Can anyone say mindless bandwagoing/piggybacking? Ohh wait I forgot, it's not a reason for a scum tell (see Rabies) unless it's posted in RVS. My bad. And I giggle that you genuinely think that all votes have a purpose. I would like you to go back and detail and explain the purpose of ALL the votes on page 1. It's going to be critical in the process of finding scum this game.

Your first bunch of posts read to me as "Don't look at me, there's nothing interesting here!" Which is wrong. And, yes, I meant what I said: Every vote has a purpose. It might be just to get reactions from specific people, but that's a purpose too. Otherwise, you wouldn't be voting.

Prodded. Past couple days have been very busy, sorry. Enigma and jimfinn are the right guys to look at. Not convinced about gonanno yet. Moose, stop trolling and answer questions. Content soon.

Exactly what do you want to look at? I'm V/LA with less than a few posts, jimfinn has posted crap all useful until a few posts just in front of you. Not much to look at really. Ohh btw now that I'm

no longer V/LA

active does that mean I'm automatically town? Awesome, thanks!

Your being not very active has nothing to do with why I am voting you.

I still think Enigma and jimfinn are best bets for scum.

So you think all the people who have posted the least content are scum? I mean can you even get a read on either of us? Because I sure as hell can't, which is ironic because I'm actually one of the players in question. Are you going to comment (not just ask questions) on either of the active bandwagons or you just going to delude yourself that I'm scum when I currently have zero content posts in the game.

Hey look, more passing of responsibility! "I can't read myself" is some bullshit. Also, I never said anything about least content.

Also answer the question above relating to RBT. Cheers.

Amazingly, I already did, in the same post that you quoted above no less!

Other possibilities: I don't like Prokhor's moose vote in 130 much. Also, RBT needs to show up and do stuff. I'm not particularly enamored of either big bandwagon right now.

Happy with my vote at the moment.

----

On another note, based on a meta tell I believe in, if SC ever flips scum, we should definitely look at Mizzy. As of right now, I don't see a substantial reason to vote either of them.

[MacavityLock]

So Maccavity, what are your reasons for voting me apart from the lack of responsibility bullshit your skew into a few quotes taken out of context?
How does lack of responsibility relate to a scum tell?

It's mostly the lack of responsibility bullshit. And how is that a scumtell? Because it allows you to weasel out of defending said vote if/when you are questioned on it. Scum never have pro-town reasons for their vote, so they have to worry about this.

Ohh and I'm waiting to hear your recount of all the votes from the first page at least, and exactly what purpose they all serve. Please do enlighten me.

Stop being a dick. Obviously I don't know other people's motivations, but the point is that everyone has a motivation. Maybe "because you thought it was funny" was your motivation for your "random vote", but that's not how I'm seeing it.

[MacavityLock]

@mod, please check if the votecount in 165 is completely correct. Thanks.

This actually sends off scum vibes to me. Didn't notice it earlier. The fact that you didn't make an effort to go read back is scummy.

The reason I asked this is that originally, the votecount in 165 had jimfinn with 2 votes on him, but only you voting him. This indicated either a secret double vote, or an error. I wanted to confirm which one before making anything of it. SSBF, can you confirm this error and edit?

Either way, it's a BS scumtell.

I can't see any mention of RBT in your posts

Well, I directly quoted it, and can do so again:

Also, RBT needs to show up and do stuff.

Please explain your stance on jimmfinn. And also state the differences in your reasoning between your current scum picks and RBT.

OK.

That really strikes me the wrong way. I don't think a town player would suggest a quicklynch, even jokingly, this early. UNVOTE: VOTE: charter

Has been previously called out, but definite over-reaction.

Do you have anything to say about the jimfinn/charter/Mizzy/Enigma thing?

Shhhh. I'm scum hunting.

This seems intended to drive home the point that he is indeed scum hunting, which appears to be trying too hard to be town.

This is in fact the opposite of what LMP was doing. Seeing what LMP did as "trying too hard to be town" is jimfinn trying too hard to find LMP scummy. Similar:

I also find it suspicious, despite his defense, that he refused to vote gonnano in applying pressure until he was called out for not voting him.

my list of the four you asked about plus my current vote, PZ:
On a scale of 10 uberscum to 1 obvtown
LMP - 7
moose - 6.5
charter - 6.5
gonnanno - 5
enigma - 5

List SUCKS! Not the people on the list, the values therein. Everyone is between "halfway scum" and "kinda scum", and I don't agree with the reads/order.

[MacavityLock]

Also, everyone but StrangerCoug, charter, and Rabies seems to be ignoring my question about the merits/shortcomings of my vote and case against Rabies. I'm very interested in the responses to that question, if it's not too much trouble.

I don't see much of a case, and what I do is either misguided (calling out Rabies Enigma vote) or not interesting on Day 1 (connections with charter). So, no, not seeing it.

----

moose, stop whining and play the game, or you will be rightly lynched today.

----

charter, why do you prefer jimfinn over Enigma?

[MacavityLock]

A lurker is a lurker, how can you distinguish a town lurker from a scum lurker with any sort of ease on D1?

is horrendous, and Enigma isn't looking like he's going to get lynched today, so...

Unvote, Vote: jimfinn

.

My boldings:

I think that Gonnano is scum and is using lurking as an excuse to vote someone. It makes much more sense for him, as scum, to use a weak reason to

vote a townie as opposed to a buddy

.

I've gone back and convinced myself Gonnano is the right lynch for today. Him flipping scum would condemn Jimfinn for certain, and

likely RBT as his buddies

.

Note: gonnano is voting RBT. charter, explain?

[MacavityLock]

A lurker is a lurker, how can you distinguish a town lurker from a scum lurker with any sort of ease on D1?

The reason I don't like this is because I'm reading it as kind of excusing yourself from lurking, as if that's the only part of the case against you. After looking at this again, I see that you're talking specifically about RBT and his lurkiness, so this is not as bad as I read at first. Still, it can easily be read as trying to set yourself up with "lurkiness is null, so stop talking about it".

Note: gonnano is voting RBT. charter, explain?

I don't see how it matters much, Gonnano has given basically no reason to be voting RBT and RBT has no other votes, and right now it looks like an extremely slim chance of being lynched. RBT is the third wheel right now, Jimfinn and Gonnano are definitely buddies.

I'm still confused about how you called RBT both gonnano's not-buddy and his obv-buddy in the same post.

This is absolutely ridiculous. We should have already decided who to lynch. These are the people that will make a win impossible for the town: jimfinn, gonnano, MacavityLock, Enigma, Mizzy, StrangerCoug. At least two of them are almost assuredly scum just based on the fact that there are four days until deadline, and you are doing all in your power to ensure a no lynch happens.

So, everyone not voting gonnano is

wrong

? You don't think there's another lynch that could happen today? jimfinn could happen. moose almost happened, and I'm now considering that maybe it should.

LoL you are so wrong. Wanna make a location bet on my role?

At this point, you're just thumbing your nose at us. moose, why aren't you scum?

[MacavityLock]

LoL you are so wrong. Wanna make a location bet on my role?

At this point, you're just thumbing your nose at us. moose, why aren't you scum?

How do you know I'm not?

That's my point. Give me a reason not to vote you.

I listed everyone who was not voting, or was the only person voting for someone. At this point, they are all wasting their votes.

I do not agree.

[MacavityLock]

I want to see what you think of the gonnana wagon and why you really haven't commented on it much seeing as it's opposing your witch hunt on jimfinn.

Weird, I could have sworn I had commented on it, but looking back, I see that I haven't. One question first: Why is my thing against jimfinn a "witch hunt", but charter on gonnano isn't? Why cast aspersions on my thing?

As for my opinion on the gonnano case, if it isn't already obvious, I'm not feeling it. Yes, I don't agree with the case on Rabies, but I didn't feel it was particularly scummy, more misguided. Voting RBT is doesn't really bother me either. Anything else on gonnano is a connections case, which always mean nothing to me Day 1.

[MacavityLock]

See, the thing about Prokhor that gets me is

gonnano: I thought the case on him started out weak, but it's grown stronger over the day. Him keeping on Rabies with a weak case and then voting Rbt at an odd moment, and now conveniently not being around to claim, are points against him. I'm still on the fence on whether he's scum or not, but as day one lynches goes, he's decent. Certainly miles better than a no lynch.

It's giving himself a ton of wiggle room around the likely lynch today.

[MacavityLock]

OK, so I'm going to be V/LA until probably about 3 hours from deadline, and I can't completely guarantee that I'll be around to hammer if necessary. Sorry.

That said, I am willing to switch my vote from jimfinn to Prokhor (or Enigma) now if people desire. Let me know before I go go.

[MacavityLock]

If a cop or something has an incriminating result on someone, they shouldn't outright claim it. Obviously try and get them lynched the normal way before going "GUILTY LOLOOLOLOL LYNCHPLZ" and then get NK'ed. Even if we lynch someone else, I think it unwise to claim on day two. If they get NK'ed and don't claim, they should have left obvious clues if they had useful info.

Theory disagreement: At this stage of the game, an investigative with a guilty should not allow a lynch on anyone other than the guilty party, and should out him/herself if necessary. (Should not out him/herself before necessary, of course.)

----

gonnano's flip makes my point on Prokhor yesterday that much more important.

Vote: Prokhor

----

Will be low activity over the next few days as Thanksgiving winds to a close. Will be back at full posting strength by Tues.

[MacavityLock]

Yeah, it's pretty obvious, ennit?

[MacavityLock]

Shit. I have two competing theories on this game, and they're both muddled by the very existence of moose. Things like:

So let me get this straight. Within the first 5 posts of day 2 you have two players you want to lynch?

Does yesterday not matter? Why are you so eager to hammer? If charter hadn't unvoted before you had a chance to vote, would you have hammered?

How is my POV in this situation different from yours?

is a good question. And the most important question for you, moose: Who is scum?

----

charter, a couple questions for you. Can you explain what you mean by

At this point, it looks like you're [Prokhor] a better scumrole, but Jimfinn is more certainly scum

Also, I want to completely understand your analysis of jimfinn/Prokhor/Mizzy. Can you make your iso 67 more explicit for me?

----

I think I need to

Unvote

for now.

[MacavityLock]

MacLock: why does it matter if I would of hammered or not? that tells us nothing.

How do you know what it tells me? Answer my questions. All of them.

[MacavityLock]

EWBOP: Your response to the "POV" question is adequate. All other questions in my post need answers though.

[MacavityLock]

That's not the question I asked. Would you have hammered, yes or no?

[MacavityLock]

moose, do you want me to ask them one at a time, or can you go through my post and answer all of them?

[MacavityLock]

1)

So let me get this straight. Within the first 5 posts of day 2 you have two players you want to lynch?

Does yesterday not matter?

2) Why are you so eager to hammer?

3) And the most important question for you, moose: Who is scum?[/quote]

[MacavityLock]

3) If I had to pick the scum team i'd go with mizzy, rbt, jimfinn... I am not sure if it's 3 or 4 or whatever, only my second game in a mini.

Why them?

[MacavityLock]

Macavity still doesn't impress me and I really need to get around to making up a case about him.
Why is he unvoting? Especially with his weak ass jump onto the PZ wagon.
What are these 2 competing theories? Care to share?
No comment on Mizzy? I'm sure her obvious fail post had so much scummy goodness you could have pounced on.
Are you going to name your scum reads for today, instead of asking others to name theirs? Cheers!

You don't think my questions to charter have something to do with that? You don't think I would specifically not talk about what those theories are if I didn't have a reason not to? I think there might be something going on here that people aren't picking up on, and I'm interested to see if anybody else will get it without me announcing it.

[MacavityLock]

@Mac, the reason why I thought PZ was a better scumrole is how Jimfinn voted him for no reason, but made it very clear he wants PZ to claim, like he knows PZ can claim something juicy and avoid a lynch. It looks like a terrible distancing attempt. I'm more sure Jimfinn is scum because I have a stronger scum read on him (he's done nothing all game and I just modded a game he was in where there was definitely scumhunting from him).

What do you mean by scumrole? I don't understand what the difference is between "scum" and "scumrole". If you mean scum power, I don't really get your point. In the scenario where Prokhor is scum, whether or not he has a power doesn't drastically open up fake claims he could make.

As for iso 67,

You can slice it many different ways, but none of them result in Mizzy being town.

I'm having a hard time understanding why Mizzy is guaranteed scum for not commenting on people who haven't yet flipped.

[MacavityLock]

First up,

Ok, or we could do what Mizzy is doing. Never commit so you're never wrong! Or only weakly commit to people that aren't going to be lynched!

charter, you're misrep-ing. That's not what Mizzy is doing.

@Mac, the reason why I thought PZ was a better scumrole is how Jimfinn voted him for no reason, but made it very clear he wants PZ to claim, like he knows PZ can claim something juicy and avoid a lynch. It looks like a terrible distancing attempt.

Yes, I agree with this.

What do you mean by scumrole? I don't understand what the difference is between "scum" and "scumrole". If you mean scum power, I don't really get your point. In the scenario where Prokhor is scum, whether or not he has a power doesn't drastically open up fake claims he could make.

Like if he is a mafia tracker, or watcher, or some other useful mafia role, claiming to see someone make an action they actually made is a hell of a lot more convincing than a generic unproven claim. There's a difference between a goon and a power role, and it does open up fakeclaims. Preserving the power roles on scumteams is hugely beneficial to them. I don't see how you don't understand this.

And I understand this. I just had a hard time understanding why you though that something jimfinn did made Prokhor more likely to be a scum power. It seems backwards, and I don't particularly agree with it, but I see your point.

That said, I have reconciled my problem with my competing theories for now, and I'm down for a jimfinn wagon. I had already unvoted, but it seems that the mod missed it, so to be sure,

Unvote. Vote: jimfinn

.

----

Now, a question or two for our new arrival:

We'll start off slow here, by the way; I skimmed Day 1 and I found gonnano way too scummy for someone to agree with him naturally. What jimfinn did is EXACTLY what I picture scum doing.

Where did jimfinn agree with gonnano? Also, I didn't find gonnano scummy. Why not call me out?

[MacavityLock]

Hi. I have no problem No Lynching once jim checks in.

[MacavityLock]

Are they allowed not to kill?

Don't see why not.

I think this is where we do the massclaim thang. Popcorning? I nominate jimfinn to go first.

[MacavityLock]

And this is why we massclaim, boys and girls.

[MacavityLock]

I'm in favor of massclaiming. I'm in favor of popcorning with jimfinn going first if we massclaim. That softclaim was super BS, given the situation we were in.

In my opinion, we pretty much have to lynch today, given WIFOM around a No Kill vs protect vs whatever. However, I can see a case made for another No Lynch. If we go that route, we should not massclaim.

Ooh, I have an idea. In everyone's next post, they should put either

Code: Select all

[b]Vote: Massclaim[/b]

or

Code: Select all

[b]Vote: No Lynch[/b]

with little to no commentary. If 4 people put down No Lynch, we will automatically go to night with little to no information leak, as long as everyone plays along. Once 5 people put down Massclaim, we immediately start on the massclaim.

Vote: Massclaim

[MacavityLock]

A No Lynch with an Investigative revealing just outs a PR for scum to target. Either we massclaim or we No Lynch, one or the other. If you want an Investigative to reveal, vote massclaim.

[MacavityLock]

That's 5 for massclaim. Enigma, say your piece. Can we all agree that jimfinn goes first?

[MacavityLock]

Yes, targets get claimed along with role.

Please do NOT list your target for last night (if you are a doc or w/e) until mass claim is complete though.

Why not? Do you have a reason to believe that not listing last night up front and repeating the popcorn order to list last night separately will be useful?

[MacavityLock]

Just in case of counter claims and such? If jim is indeed not lying, and a counter claim occurs, we know which is most likely to be false since we have some sort of confirmation from the doc protect.

And I don't understand what you are saying with your last bit really.

Were you just referring to everybody not claiming last night's target, or just jimfinn?

[MacavityLock]

Vanilla.

RBT's up.

Were you just referring to everybody not claiming last night's target, or just jimfinn?

Enigma, can you please answer this. I think this may be the cause of our confusion.

[MacavityLock]

Got it. I was thinking you were talking about everyone, which was really strange to me.

[MacavityLock]

Actually lynching ML is better

Suggesting Massclaim benefits scum, I only voted massclaim cause the option was that or NL and I was against the first one, wasn't going to do it again

No, massclaim doesn't benefit scum. It's MYLO, and I don't think No Lynching is worthwhile. If Investigatives claim, we need everybody else to claim, so as to best coordinate. Either no info or full info are best for town.

My opinion is that a massclaim = full claims for both Enigma and RBT. If I'm overruled, I can live with that, but if we let them do that, our last two claimers should also not be claiming targets (if they have any), and if either of them is Investigative, they shouldn't be saying what kind either.

Did I miss a Mizzy/RobCapone claim? I believe both RC and LMP have yet to go.

[MacavityLock]

Town is underpowered without both power roles. Assuming that both RBT and Enigma aren't lying, there is an RB. So I think that both RBT and Enigma have to be off-limits today.

jimfinn's doc-WIFOM is so out of place and so bad of a gambit that I think it does add to the evidence of him being scum. He's where I'm leaning right now.

[MacavityLock]

idk but nobody counter-claimed so I have to believe he is telling the truth.

It's a mini normal. Noone knows the setup here.
Why are you expecting someone to counter claim ....

because whenever somebody i think is scum claims a town power role I am not likely to believe them, I think rbt is scum so i don't believe his claim but we have nothing else to go on and I am not lynching him since there is no counter-claim

There's a difference between not wanting to lynch him, and believing he is telling the truth. I don't like this at all.

----

Enigma, as a vig, we need you to be sure of your job tonight. If we lynch scum today, you

cannot

vig tonight. If we lynch town today, you

must

vig tonight. And let me know what you need me to do to convince you that I'm town.

[MacavityLock]

You know what, that plan isn't going to work. If we mislynch, scum can RB Enigma, kill town, and game over. Therefore, we have to assume that we lynch correctly today. If we do lynch scum today, Enigma can't vig, so there will be no point to RBing him, and the scum can RB RBT.

However, we can do this better if we coordinate. We fake-vote today, come to a consensus on who is scum, and then No Lynch. Enigma then vigs the town's consensus. RBT Tracks whoever he wants. That way, the scum will be forced to choose which one of them to block. If town chose incorrectly, it's game over, just like it would have been had we mislynched today. But if we correctly picked scum, we get more info for tomorrow.

The only way that this plan is worse that attempting a lynch today is if we happen to lynch the RB. I think it's worth it.

P.S. This is why we mass-claim. So we can coordinate.

[MacavityLock]

and macavity there is no way anyone can convince anyone else that they are town, if you are town you shoudn't be worried about trying to convince anyone else of it, your actions throughout the game should be what convinces people.

I need to do this, because Enigma has the vig and has attempted to kill me. It's a special case.

[MacavityLock]

I don't believe he is telling the truth but I don't want to lynch him cause he is claiming a power role, there is no difference.

idk but nobody counter-claimed so I have to believe he is telling the truth.

Hee hee, contradiction.

[MacavityLock]

You know what, that plan isn't going to work. If we mislynch, scum can RB Enigma, kill town, and game over. Therefore, we have to assume that we lynch correctly today. If we do lynch scum today, Enigma can't vig, so there will be no point to RBing him, and the scum can RB RBT.

However, we can do this better if we coordinate. We fake-vote today, come to a consensus on who is scum, and then No Lynch. Enigma then vigs the town's consensus. RBT Tracks whoever he wants. That way, the scum will be forced to choose which one of them to block. If town chose incorrectly, it's game over, just like it would have been had we mislynched today. But if we correctly picked scum, we get more info for tomorrow.

The only way that this plan is worse that attempting a lynch today is if we happen to lynch the RB. I think it's worth it.

P.S. This is why we mass-claim. So we can coordinate.

And, I'm an idiot. Scum can RB one, kill the other. Whatever, let's just lynch scum today.

[MacavityLock]

I don't believe he is telling the truth

but I don't want to lynch him cause he is claiming a power role, there is no difference.

idk but nobody counter-claimed so

I have to believe he is telling the truth.

That's not semantics, that's a contradiction.

[MacavityLock]

I believe your claim enigma and I can tell you that you were not roleblocked

^ most likely not roleblocked

Then why I ain't dead?

[MacavityLock]

Well, Rob's doc claim means we need to re-think setup, balance, etc considerations. And it means we might be able to get something good out of coordination.

First up, Enigma's claim is believable, and I'm pretty strong town on him now. Rob's doc claim also means that only one of Enigma and RBT have to be lying now for there not to be a RB. That is, balance no longer removes RBT from the potential scum list.

Now, let's see if we can salvage the "No Lynch to get info" plan. We fake-vote and come to a town consensus. We No Lynch. Enigma vigs our town consensus. If that guy is town, we lose, but we would likely have lost anyway. If that guy is scum, we get some combination of additional info (faked or not, which hopefully we could do something with) from RBT, a scum death from Enigma, and maybe a townie death save from Rob. If we do that, I don't think that either RBT or Rob should say who their intended targets are before we go to night.

As far as I can tell, there is one downside to this plan: If we decide to No Lynch, use Enigma's vig as the lynch and we have chosen a townie, then Game Over, we lose. If we decide to Lynch and hit a townie, Enigma can use his vig to have a 3 out of 6 shot to hit scum overnight and extend the game to LYLO tomorrow. If there is a RB, he will be blocked, which means Game Over, we lose. This 3 out of 6 chance at LYLO tomorrow will only be possible if scum don't have a RB.

So, it looks like it's a choice between No Lynching to try to get info, or lynching and taking a gamble on whether the scum have a RB. What do people think?

[MacavityLock]

Possible amendment to above plan: We force Rob to Doc RBT tonight. Remember that all of this assumes that our lynch/vig target is scum. Otherwise, the game is over no matter what. Potential outcomes:
1) RBT dies. Rob deviated from the plan, and is therefore scum.
2) RBT gets blocked. This means that Enigma wasn't blocked, killed scum, and we're in MYLO tomorrow, instead of LYLO.
3) RBT does not get blocked and has info.

I think I might like this variation over the one where Rob can doc anyone he wants.

[MacavityLock]

Possible amendment to above plan: We force Rob to Doc RBT tonight. Remember that all of this assumes that our lynch/vig target is scum. Otherwise, the game is over no matter what. Potential outcomes:
1) RBT dies. Rob deviated from the plan, and is therefore scum.
2) RBT gets blocked. This means that Enigma wasn't blocked, killed scum, and we're in MYLO tomorrow, instead of LYLO.
3) RBT does not get blocked and has info.

I think I might like this variation over the one where Rob can doc anyone he wants.

But what if I get blocked and rbt dies

Zomg I'll be accused of scum

You're right, that is an issue. It still falls under (2), where we end up in MYLO instead of LYLO. Anyone other than Enigma getting blocked leads to a not-horrible outcome.

Under this plan, I'd want jimfinn to be the vig target too.

[MacavityLock]

We need to lynch today, this isn't really a choice. If it were that Jim is town by Enigma's shot (assuming this claim is true), and there was another scum kill, then we will have 6 alive come tomorrow.

Yeah, but that's my point. If we choose incorrectly today, we lose no matter what. So, the plan is all about maximizing our chances assuming our choice is correct. There is a choice about whether or not we lynch today. Get it now?

[MacavityLock]

So we should rely on Enigma to follow a plan, instead of get both a lynch AND vig shot? We have a better chance of winning with a lynch and vig over just a vig shot. We don't lose if we lynch, and if we lynch wrong, we can STILL get ahead with a vig shot. OR, if we're right, we get a vig shot to give us another chance to get ahead, however... it would at that point be optional.

Yes, if Enigma agrees to it, we probably get a better chance to win by using the vig as our lynch. If the scum have a RB, we don't STILL get a vig shot, we just lose if we lynch wrong today. Why are you so against my proposed plan? Is it because you won't be able to provide useful info?

Everyone needs to say whether or not they think my plan is viable, especially Enigma.

Jim and macavity are a lock for scum btw

Why, because I'm trying to enact a plan?

Okay guys, Rob or moose? This is getting really close to the deadline. I'm not comfortable lynching jim today at all.

Why not jim?

[MacavityLock]

Macavity, what plan?

Rob/everyone, read 759, 760, 769 for details of my proposed plan to No Lynch and use Enigma's vig tonight as the lynch.

DH, "there's too much gray area" doesn't mean anything. Why not jim?

Macavity, what bugs me with you is the way you jumped off PZ's wagon and went to jim's wagon with charter

Like you were distancing from a mislynch

This is crap. When I voted, the jim and PZ wagons equaled out at 3, and it made jim a viable lynch that day. DH abandoned the jim wagon and pushed PZ.

[MacavityLock]

I don't want you lynched today. Maybe later. But not today.

[MacavityLock]

I've been bad with activity over break, my apologies. Catching up.

[MacavityLock]

Sorry for double-post.

Rob/everyone, read 759, 760, 769 for details of my proposed plan to No Lynch and use Enigma's vig tonight as the lynch.

No one has answered this. This is especially important for Rob and Enigma: Would you be willing to go along with the No Lynch-Use Enigma's vig as Lynch plan? If not, why not?

[MacavityLock]

If Enigma is scum, do you think he also has an additional vig? The plan is only game over if mafia kill a townie

and

Enigma kills a townie. If Enigma is mafia without an additional vig, he can make the single maf kill, which will not be game over. Scum having extra kills is not something my plan is prepared for, and if it exists, I think we're fucked no matter what.

[MacavityLock]

SSBF, so harsh with the prods. Sorry.

No one's responding to my plan. At all. Why not?

I don't want to lynch today given my proposed plan, but if not everyone agrees to it (especially Enigma), then we do pretty much have to lynch. My preferred lynchee is jimfinn, but I would give my vote to DH as well.

[MacavityLock]

Actually, Macavity, I want a full ISO of my play. I want why I'm scummy with full backing evidence, ready to go. Include Rabies too. Give me all you got.

You don't get to request this. I'm not interested in convincing

you

that you're scum. If other people want it, fine, maybe I'll listen to them.

[MacavityLock]

Well, you were the one who blinked and basically assured that we lynched PZ-townie over jim.

[MacavityLock]

You do realize that part of the benefit of my proposed plan is that it might tell us more about the setup, right?

But it doesn't look like people will actually be able to agree to it before deadline. Thus, it's time for me to VOTE: jimfinn. If people do end being okay with No Lynch+Directed Vig, my fake vote is obviously 100% on jimfinn.

DH, I don't hate your LMP case, but it's not enough for me to get behind his wagon at this point. Another thing: I don't understand your issue with Enigma's vig claim. Of the 3 power role claims, his is the one that strikes me as

most

believable.

[MacavityLock]

your fake vote?

In the case of No Lynch+Directed Vig, we need to fake vote as opposed to real vote, so that we don't lynch. Are you even paying attention?

Well, its obvious that lock and enigma are both either town or scum. Whatever it is, they are it together. Should we lynch lock to find out and have ourselves an obvscum if he flips scum?

Because I think his claim is believable? This is among the nonsense as to why you're my #2 for scum right now.

[MacavityLock]

Rob, please tell me why the No Lynch-Directed Vig plan is a bad one.

Anyway, look at the claim timeline: Enigma claims even-night vig, claims that he was blocked, but doesn't claim target; then RBT claims that Enigma did nothing on N2 (assuming the block meant Enigma did nothing); then Enigma claims that he tried to vig me; then Rob claims that roleblocking isn't necessary, since he Doc'ed me Night 2. That's too tight of a story. That is, there was one kill Night 2, and I can't see how that set of claims comes about with Enigma-scum, Rob-town.

Preview edit: Vig is such an easy claim to make as scum. You believe the vig claim over the doc claim?

Since when is an after the fact doc claim any better than a first PR to claim vig claim? Let's look at it again: Enigma claimed that he failed to kill me on Night 2. For us to be in the Enigma-scum, Rob-town situation, Enigma would have needed to luck out in choice his "vig" target as the same one that actually got Doc'ed. It's not very likely.

The only way that none of them are lying is if there is a separate roleblocker who

also

happened to RB Enigma N2. It's unlikely. Rob being scum and knowing about a N2 RB on Enigma makes sense. RBT being scum knowing about a N2 RB on Enigma is also possible, but it would also mean that we have the coincidence of Enigma's kill being prevented twice. Enigma being the only scum of the three PRs would require him to not be the charter-killer and not be any other targeting scum PR, as well as blindly pick me as his "vig" target. Thus, Enigma is the claimed PR I'm least interested in lynching. Amazing how logic works.

P.S. You need to lynch right in MYLO, not just try to get info.

[MacavityLock]

Yeah, you guys should unvote. There is definitely the chance that Enigma is SK, and we need to lynch mafia to win today. Setup could be SK, 2 maf, 3 town. RBT really looks like scum to me right now. Not voting yet.

[MacavityLock]

It was based on his late jimfinn vote, and the way he immediately voted for Enigma, barreling right through the fact that if the setup is Enigma-SK, 2 maf, lynching Enigma ends the game in a town loss. Scum-Tracker is not unheard of, and RBT's targeting claims all came after the fact. Definitely not certain of anything though, so I'm not voting yet.

[MacavityLock]

In regards to how balanced town is to a SK and a scum team? That's actually very likely.

Sorry, what's very likely?

[MacavityLock]

Enigma, you are claiming Bulletproof SK. Is there anything additional in your role?

RBT, you received "Did Nothing" on the first 2 nights, and "No Result" on the 3rd night, is this correct? As in, two distinct results, yes?

[MacavityLock]

RBT, you're familiar with 2 maf, 1 SK in 12 player setup. I know you are. So, why are you unwilling to believe Enigma's SK claim?

DH, a 3 maf team would be game over already, so I don't think that can be the setup.

LMP, in going back over stuff, your Day 1 was very sensitive to Enigma's "scum teams" slip. Given that we now know that we are very likely to have a 2 maf team, I would think that a maf member would be the most sensitive to this.

The fact that the game seems tunneled on moose is quite disappointing and will make looking for

scum teams

hard. I fell scum are using it as an opportunity to stay out of the spotlight and gain some town credit by attempting to scum hunt on some of the easier targets.

Why do you think we should be looking for scum teams (plural)?

FOS: Enigma

Well, a second team is technically possible. It's just extremely rare. I'm actually starting to see some good (read:scum) connections here between Moose and LMP.

Yes its rare, that's the whole point. Why would enigma say teams when multiple teams in a 12 man game is rare? That's the whole point! It looks like inside information.

At one point, you said that you once caught scum using this tell. Please provide links to that game.

Moose, who do you think is maf?

[MacavityLock]

So then you think that Enigma is one of the 2 maf team? The problem I have with that is the following: There was a successful N2 kill on charter, which I assume is the maf kill. Enigma claimed a N2 kill on me. Rob subsequently claimed a Doc protect on me. You tracked him to nowhere. So, for this to all have occurred, you'd need Enigma to not be the charter-killing maf on N2, to not have RBed anyone N2, and he would have needed to blindly claim a kill on the guy that got doc'ed on N2.

That all seems less likely to me than a 2-maf, 1 SK setup with no 2 kill nights.

[MacavityLock]

Enigma, you are claiming Bulletproof SK. Is there anything additional in your role?

Also, waiting on Moose. Isn't night action analysis where you're supposed to shine? Be useful.

[MacavityLock]

RBT, I see your point about the 2 maf only setup. I don't agree with it, but I get it.

Also, our lynch pool is definitely {Enigma, Mac, LMP}.

Why not DH?

That said, at this point, I'm kind of leaning towards a LMP lynch. DH, your iso hit really only one great point for me, that being the lynch setups here:

Also, all this lurking has had a seriously negative impact on a seriously awesome wagon. I love how PZ has completely vanished once the heat on him has started losing steam.

I'm pretty sure we can win this game by lynching in the following order:

PZ
Jimfinn
Mizzy

The sensitivity to the multiple scum teams thing is what gets me most, given that we almost certainly have a 2 maf team. LMP, I read through that part of the game you linked and I understand that you've used a similar tell before as town, but that doesn't mean you can't also use it as scum. In this game, I'm really getting the feeling of a member of a 2 maf trying to find the other team.

moose, replace out. Seriously. If you're unable to contribute, replace out. And, no, there are no Jesters in a Mini-Normal.

[MacavityLock]

Mac, that doesn't make any sense. If I were mafia looking for a second team, I wouldn't scream it out in thread, I'd just note it and NK him that night. That is completely illogical. I don't really know what else to say about it, I couldn't post a link to the game at the time I made the comments because it was ongoing, but I know that Hotel Death was still very fresh in my mind at the time, and so it was something I was paying particular attention to.

Scum-hunting for the other team is one of the best ways for scum to look pro-town. I know this. I did it in ACoK. You don't keep that stuff under your hat.

I can't believe my listing those 3 players and saying "if we lynch in the following order" can be seen as a serious attempt to line up lynches. It was not meant as such, it was just a way of me expressing that I found them scummy in that order. I'm sure I've made similar statements in other games, I'd be happy to go dig them up if it'll save us from this mislynch.

You said "we should lynch in the following order". That's not semantics, that's what you said. So, yeah, please dig up similar quotes from town-you.

[MacavityLock]

I'm waiting for RBT to respond to

Also, our lynch pool is definitely {Enigma, Mac, LMP}.

Why not DH?

and moose to respond to either

Moose, who do you think is maf?

or

moose, replace out. Seriously. If you're unable to contribute, replace out. And, no, there are no Jesters in a Mini-Normal.

before I vote.

[MacavityLock]

After some rereading, I came across how strong Lock was pushing for us to rely on Enigma to make kills for the town over a lynch.

And if we had gotten 2 kills last night, as opposed to one lynch, one kill, we'd know whether or not Enigma could be maf. If we had gotten one or no kills, we'd be in a better position LYLO-wise. It was the logical play, and no one listened.

Clearly, anyone who thinks I'm scum at this point is either not paying attention, or just tries to push me along so they can win. This is why the three biggest pushers of my wagon right now are the most obvious lynches (Mac, Enigma, LMP).

Due to your claimed role, I'm not interested in lynching you today. It's a choice between LMP and DH for me right now.

@Lock: Why not DH? If it weren't for the fact that my claim basically confirms me at this point, then I would say DH was the most obvtown player right now. Your doubt mongering is more proof that you want to get the attention off you and your partner.

How is he the most obvious pro-town? I don't see what puts him off-limits.

[MacavityLock]

I said it as well.

DH, a 3 maf team would be game over already, so I don't think that can be the setup.

What voting rule are you talking about?

[MacavityLock]

What more do you want me to do to explain my logic of having Enigma's vig act as the lynch? As I said, we would either have gotten setup info or a better LYLO position out of it. I explained it yesterday, I explained it again today, and no one gets it.

moose, do you even care whose wagon you're on?

I'm still hemming and hawing between LMP and DH. Now, I have an issue with DH: While there were 8 players in this game, moose said something about 4 scum. You responded thusly:

Hey Demon. Thank you. I think after you or jim flip scum we have all the info we need to find the last scum. (Maybe 4 i think you can 4 in a mini)

...and you just suggested that there are 4 scum on 1 team in a mini normal.

Your claims are completely invalid.

So, instead of lynching jim, we can lynch moose for being passive and trying to focus on only the surface to get a mislynch. I bet you a million dollars jimfinn is just town who doesn't care about this game, cause that's what he always does.

*1 team would mean a scum majority, which means the game would be over, genius.

I'm tired at the moment.

It is invalid, and moose is scummy.

Now, we have 6 players, and when LMP and I talk about only 2 maf, we are scummy because of it, until you conveniently remember later. But you were aware of the 50% rule earlier in the game. Why the contradiction?

[MacavityLock]

Actually, re-reading it, I get what you're saying. Doesn't make it less of a misrep though.

Yeah, not a misrep. I'm trying to understand why you might contradict yourself.

I wrote this, thinking that "If half the town is mafia AND there is an SK, mafia still doesn't win because the SK can still play a role."

Before, the argument was on the fact that there is 4 mafia and 4 town and no SK in the picture whatsoever.

And this is a satisfactory answer.

Vote: LMP

[MacavityLock]

This whole game makes me sad.

@ML: I've done my absolute best to show you I'm not scum. Is there anything else you need from me?

This question still stands.

I've done my re-reads of both you and DH, and you just come off as coming from a place that seems more scum-motivated, by just a little bit.

That said, if you and moose post within a short time of each other, and don't both vote to lynch me, I'll switch my vote to DH immediately.

[MacavityLock]

Good enough for me.

Unvote. Vote: DH

[MacavityLock]

Yeah. You were so genuine when you voted LMP. Genuine indeed.

If they were a scum pair, at any time they could have voted me for the mislynch. They didn't, and any other pair that makes sense to me includes you.

Now, moose's vote is interesting. He

hasn't

really shown any suspicion of LMP before. So, moose, what makes him suspect now? Why put the vote down this late into the day?

And, yes, I am willing to vote LMP before deadline tomorrow.

SSBF, sorry I'm being a bit lax about activity, but school starts up again for me tomorrow, and I had some work to do before I was ready. But, you could at least get the vote count right. I believe the correct current VC is:
Enigma (0):
LynchMePls (2): moose, DH
moose200x (0):
Riceballtail (1): Enigma
DemonHybrid (2): LynchMePls, MacavityLock
MacavityLock (1): Riceballtail

No Lynch (0):

Not Voting (0):

[MacavityLock]

RBT, you knew that Enigma was going to attempt a kill. Tracking him gains the town nothing, no matter what the result. Why didn't you Track me?

[MacavityLock]

I am also wavering between RBT and DH. That mistake is just about too much to be believable. However, I think I'm going to VOTE: DH. Post 1174 is full of too many assumptions about setup, and balance does suggest that RBT really is a town Tracker.

[MacavityLock]

There are scenarios in which RBT is scum. There are scenarios where moose is scum. And, yes, I care where my vote goes today. Anyway, I don't believe that I'll be changing my vote.

[MacavityLock]

I promised myself I would never self-vote as town. LMP, please hammer and put this game out of its misery. I don't want to have to deal with moose, I don't want to have to deal with replacements, and I don't want to have to think about this game anymore.

[MacavityLock]

Mr. Rat, welcome! In your first post, you claim. Also, your first post should come soon.

[MacavityLock]

Possibilities (No kill N3)

1. Scum No killed
2. Scum tried to kill DH
3. Scum tried to kill me.

So. DH is 50/50 town. Not bad. I think I'm leaning towards the town side on him.

How does DH 50/50 town follow from N3 actions? How does DH being a kill target in 1 of 3 scenarios make him 50/50 town?

Tracker Results

N1: Moose did nothing N1
N2: Enigma did nothing N2
N3: Tracked DH no result.
N4: ????
N5: ????

Someone fill in these gaps please.

RBT Tracked Enigma N4 to Rob, Tracked Enigma N5 to no one. Both of these Tracks are failures on RBT's part, as we already knew that Enigma was going to kill both nights. (N4, he had an even night vig claim out. By N5 he had claimed scum.

SK Results

I was rb'ed N1
I failed to kill N2
I Did nothing N3
I was rb'ed N4?
I was rb'ed N5

No kills Day 3&4 mhm...

Enigma didn't say anything about missing his N3 kill, in fact he claimed a kill.

Assuming the missing results go well together, DH is most semi-confirmed town. So we can interchange him with Rat changing our scum candidates to Mac/LMP/Rat. Best part is the rest of us are pretty much close to confirmed non-scum, while DH and moose are semi cleared for not being at the crime scene.

Which begs the question. Macavity...Why are the fuck are you voting DH again?

RBT claimed "No Result" on DH N3, as distinct from "He Did Not Go Anywhere". I specifically questioned him on this. This suggests that RBT was RBed that night, and DH is not confirmed.

[MacavityLock]

I don't care. If he said that he was lying, the mod clearly told he didn't submit an action.

That's fine, just want to be sure I have things straight, because this in fact does change night interactions as previously claimed.

RBT claimed "No Result" on DH N3, as distinct from "He Did Not Go Anywhere". I specifically questioned him on this. This suggests that RBT was RBed that night, and DH is not confirmed.

I see, but I still place faith in the doctor result. Do you think scum tried to kill me?

Yes, I think that Enigma was a completely reasonable maf target on N3.

Ah how cool. Interesting note about Macavity. He enjoys long walks on the beach and spends his free time tunneling on poor townies who aren't even going to get lynched. What do I think? He was intentionally stay away from the larger wagons, the only decent sized one he was on was Enigma. But note here, he

doesn't

agree with the gonnano wagon? Why the hell weren't you being pro-active trying to stop it? You barely did anything. DH is scummy by association here too for selective reasoning. Actually, Macavity intentionally avoiding the gonnano wagon makes perfect sense when he doesn't want to be seen chain sawing for his scum buddy.

It is not my job as VT to protect a person I don't think is scum, especially not on Day 1. I didn't

know

that gonnano wasn't scum, I just didn't think he was. I made my Day 1 cases, and hit on one of them. I'm not sure what else you expect a VT to do there. Also, who's the proposed scumbuddy that I didn't chainsaw?

RBT, if he is Town Tracker, failed in using his PR. If it was a willful failure, then he is scum. Additionally, his willingness to vote Enigma after he had claimed SK really hurts his credibility. But by balance arguments, it would suggest that he could only be partners with Enigma/Lat, which I'm just not thinking is the case.

DH and moose/rat makes sense to me, especially given rat's intro iso 1 post, suggesting he'd rather vote RBT of the RBT/DH combo.

As for my DH vote, it pretty much comes down to the fact that moose and LMP both posted within a reasonably short time of each other when I was at L-2. Thus, they could have paired up to lynch me and end the game in a scum win. Thus when looking at the 2 remaining legitimate pairings of DH, LMP and moose/rat, DH must be scum.

If you want my previous opinions on either LMP or DH, see my isos 62, 63, 68, 71, 72, and 76.

Though, another thing for LMP:

DH and ML or DH and RBT are scum, by POE.

Not really understanding why moose/rat can't be scum from your perspective.

----
Preview edit: Wait a sec, Lat, things just got confusing.

Wait, no, this is wrong. Enigma attempted to kill Rob but failed due to external reasons. Enigma attempted to kill Rice N5 but failed due to external reasons. How could he get a tracker result on when Enigma tried to kill Rob but not Rice?

As far as we knew until now, Enigma's kill on Rob succeeded. I was of the opinion that either maf also killed Rob, maf killed someone that Rob Doc'ed, or maf killed you. Now you're saying that you failed to kill Rob on N4 for external reasons? If so, he must have died due to maf.

Wait nvm. Even if I was Rb'ed I still show up as a result but when HE gets rb'ed he gets no result no? Is that what you mean by he tracked Enigma to no one? Otherwise that doens't make sense.

I agree, something doesn't make sense here. As far as I knew, if you get RB'ed, if RBT Tracked you, he would Track you to nowhere. However, if he got RB'ed, he would get a "No Result" that night. It seems to me like you're saying that RBT's N4 and N5 claims contradict. That is, N4 you claim blocked, but he Tracked you somewhere, while N5 you claim blocked, but he Tracked you nowhere. Is this what I'm hearing?

[MacavityLock]

I have never heard "external reasons" as a term in a mafia game. Does this mean Roleblocked, or could it be something else? Please clarify.

[MacavityLock]

Also,

Unvote

.

[MacavityLock]

I want to be clear on this:

1) You were told by the mod that your kills failed due to "external reasons", on every night except N3, and "external reasons" is SSBF's term.
2) Over N3, Enigma did not submit a kill.

Are these both correct?

[MacavityLock]

Well, it looks like we have a 1-v-1. Time to re-read. <sigh>

[MacavityLock]

And what if you're maf? I didn't think you were, but you could be. Why can't I have some time?

[MacavityLock]

Well, if you think he's for sure SK, then you vote RBT. And if you don't know for sure, you reconsider. Either way, based on posts 1242, 1243, either Lat or RBT is today's lynch.

[MacavityLock]

I'm not suggesting a 3 maf. It's either a 2 maf with SK, or 2 maf without. If it's 2 maf with SK, then RBT needs to get lynch. If it's 2 maf without, then Lat needs to.

Another thing to note: If RBT is maf, I'm pretty sure a RB is no longer necessary to fit together all night actions.

[MacavityLock]

Rice contradicted himself, therfor scum.

He did not contradict himself, he contradicted something that you claimed. That means 1-v-1, not RBT=scum.

[MacavityLock]

Yeah, sticking with reads. VOTE: RBT

Preview: Mac, it's the same difference really.

It's really not.

[MacavityLock]

Lat, why do your results not point 100% to RBT? What's changed?

[MacavityLock]

Hi. This is me not voting LMP, with the hopes that people will wise up and see that Lat and I aren't a scum team.

[MacavityLock]

Lat, you have claimed a contradiction between your claim and RBT's. How is it not one of the two of you today? I don't understand why you don't think it's 100% RBT from your perspective.

[MacavityLock]

Mac are you really so uninterested in winning the game? I'll give you head start, make a case on this post and work backwards,

Maybe I am wrong then, I remembered it as RBT seeing that I didn't go anywhere. It was a long time ago. If I'm wrong, I apologize. You are right in thinking that it's either RBT and I (which I 100% know it isn't, because I know I'm a VT) or LMP and Lock/Rat. That's the point I'm trying to reinforce.

I don't understand the point. You've said that RBT got two different results from the Tracking you on different nights where the same thing happened to you, i.e. you were RB'ed. If it was a mod mistake, it would either be cleared up by now, or this game would be even more shit than it already is.

So, why isn't it 100% RBT-scum from your perspective?

[MacavityLock]

I'm so confused. When did RBT have the opportunity to hammer DH? Why is RBT/DH scum team precluded?

Preview edit: You COUNTER-CLAIMED RBT! Why isn't this obvious from your perspective?

[MacavityLock]

I was the 2nd to last person Enigma voted. It was you, LMP and Enigma and RBT didn't hammer.

Ah yes, quite right. Thanks.

MAC WHY THE FUCK DO YOU CONTINUE TO DEFY ME? IT IS NOT OPTIMAL PLAY TO OBSESS OVER MY CLAIM REGARDLESS OF WHATEVER ALIGNMENT YOU ARE.

Actually, yeah, it is. I'm trying to focus on a 1-v-1, as opposed to worrying about the other 3 people.

It is not obvious because if DH is town then my results are messed up somehow. Meaning you convince me of DH scum. That is the first step, should be easy eh?

And I'm fucking sick of this game and have no interest in making cases anymore.

[MacavityLock]

Color me confused. I'm town.

[MacavityLock]

Plausible, but they could have hammered me at one point.

[MacavityLock]

Yeah, this game was painful for me, and honestly pushed me into the burnt-out-on-mafia state that I'm in right now. There were people in the game who

didn't care

, and it really put me off. Yes, I'm looking at you, moose. But, I have a hard time understanding other people's play too. jim's Doc fake-soft-claim, Rob's late-Doc-claim, Enigma not realizing that his results directly contradicted RBT's. I don't get it. And why weren't people listening to my perfectly logical plans to help town get best expected value out of powers and such? Arg!

Had I survived during the last day, I would have proposed the only plan that probably could have gotten us any semblance of a win at that point: Continue No Lynching until the were 3 players left, at which point lynch claimed-scum Lat. If Lat wasn't in the final 3, I probably would have recommended lynching DH, so we were likely screwed no matter what, but at least it would have had a slightly better outcome than the guaranteed kingmaker that any lynch that day was. And if it never goes to 3, then Peaceful Happy Ending!

Between the odd balance, the not hammering when it would have successfully ended the game for maf, and the less than 1 kill per night average with 2 scum kills available, this game was the most confusing and disheartening I ever played I think. I just had no idea what was going on, and it was impossibly frustrating. That's not mod's fault, just the way the night actions played out. (By the way, great job to the Doc Night 2. Apparently I was a lightning rod that night :} )

I do think this was balanced against town. Governor isn't a guaranteed pro-town ability to begin with, and neither is Doc, really, given the possibility of cross-kills in this setup. An investigative would have made good sense. Given that they had a JK, the maf knew that another role with kills was probably out there too.

LMP, you did do very well with what you were given. I'm sad that I didn't have to conviction to follow-up on the "Enigma, you said scum teams!" tell from you. Congrats.

SSBF, thanks for modding. Fun (if disturbing :} ) flavor, and I don't think that my frustration had anything to do with the modding, just with the way the game played out. I'd be interested to know what your reviewers said about balance.

[MacavityLock]

Mod: Is 1 Mafia/SK/Townie a draw for all alignments?

No, the Mafia would win.

That's interesting, and also seems wrong. Seems like that should just be townie as kingmaker, since the townie and SK could both vote for maf, which would give the SK the win. Either way, it doesn't matter. That plan would only have given a positive outcome if Lat had been one of the 2 maf anyway. And it was strictly a better plan for town than lynching.

[MacavityLock]

Lat, you were not confirmed non-maf. You were claimed anti-town. You living would not have helped town in any scenario. Anyway, the point of No Lynching there would have been to force the night kills to sort things out for us. Every little bit might help.

[MacavityLock]

Yeah, I'm thinking even just swap out the Gov for any sort of Investigative, and I would have been happy with the setup. Other than that, it was more the way it played out, with basically no kills leading to no information/negative information.