Mini 1086 - KGB Mafia Game Over

[danakillsu]

Woohoo! Now I get an obscenely large wagon on me within two days! Time to read.... >.> <.<

[danakillsu]

@MoI
It's just a joke. I usually get a large wagon on me in the first two days of the game.

After reading, I believe I can sum up the game pretty easily in a short amount of space.
I would be very surprised if either RC or vollkan was scum. They have been posting a lot of good material, giving their reads to everyone, and for the most part saying things that I agreed with as I read. I would also be very surprised if neither Zdenek nor bvoigt was scum. I was thinking all along as I read that I would be voting for Zdenek right now, but when I saw bvoigt's opportunistic vote on his main competitor for the largest wagon, I decided he would be a much safer bet for being scum. So

unvote? vote: bvoigt

[danakillsu]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Just noticed post #424, in which Katsuki votes MoI.

(one)

And then she switches to Zdenek, in post #441.

(two)

And when I call her out for voting zdenek, even though she hasn't seen the case on bvoigt (which she JUST asked for)...

...

she says she hasn't read the thread.

But she's already placed two votes.

She's scum with bvoigt, trying to push Zd's wagon to lynch.

I agree with all of the thoughts behind this. However, don't you find it a bit extreme to be this confident about Katsuki AND bvoigt being scum, thereby setting up your lynch for tomorrow.

But then Katsuki calls Zdenek and RC scumpals and I find this to be 3 things:
An OMGUS FoS
A copycat (calling RC scumpals with someone after RC called him scumpals with someone else)
A much harder thing to believe than that Katsuki and bvoigt are scumpals

[danakillsu]

@RC
Nothing to say to me about my last post?

[danakillsu]

bvoigt
Zdenek
Katsuki

I know there's one scum in there, and I'd be surprised if there weren't two.

[danakillsu]

Why am I now at the end of the bvoigt wagon? I never unvoted.

Post 447, page 18 ring a bell?

[danakillsu]

bvoigt is clearly not scum? 5 people disagree.

[danakillsu]

Reaper Charlie: I'm of the view that there are two possibilities about the Zdenek wagon. Either Zdenek is scum or scum are already on the Zdenek wagon. Its clearly not the latter so it must be the former.

You said that clearly scum are not already on the Zdenek wagon. bvoigt is on the Zdenek wagon. Therefore, you are saying that bvoigt is clearly not scum. Anything wrong with that?

[danakillsu]

I say let's lynch Zdenek or bvoigt (I don't care too much which one, it'll get tons of info either way) and let's get on with it. Day 2, here we come.

[danakillsu]

Alright. Then lets see what happens when I do this:

unvote vote: Zdenek

Claim time. I believe we will learn a lot from this lynch in exactly the same way as we would from lynching bvoigt, as bvoigt so aptly points out, and I'm the only one who seems willing to cross that line.

[danakillsu]

How could I miss the VT claim? *Smack
Alright, well if he claimed VT, it's fryin' time. Some brave soul needs to hammer it out.

[danakillsu]

Cool. Well, good luck to all us townies. Still betting that Zd flips town, and if he does, I still want bvoigt lynched tomorrow.

You know dat's right. At least that very last part...

[danakillsu]

vote:bvoigt

His vote looks like a preemptive OMGUS because I'm sure he knows I'm usually an easy lynch and he definitely knows that I'm going to be coming for him.

[danakillsu]

Yeah, this is craziness. I don't exactly consider myself VI city, but I'm finding it hard to believe that Empking, vollkan, and Katsuki are all stupider than I am, and that seems to be what RC is implying since I'm not "too stupid to be scum".

[danakillsu]

Yeah, this is craziness. I don't exactly consider myself VI city, but I'm finding it hard to believe that Empking, vollkan, and Katsuki are all stupider than I am, and that seems to be what RC is implying since I'm not "too stupid to be scum".

This post is horrible.

Aye, that it is.

And vollkan: Because I said so.

Mind explaining this to me? I'm pointing out that RC's reasoning makes no sense to me, because he's saying Empking, vollkan, and Katsuki are all too stupid to be scum, but saying that I'm scum. Why do I not get that benefit?

[danakillsu]

I suggest you all re-read the thread, as I have done, and appropriately inform yourselves, based on the knowledge you now know (hint: Zd's flip)

I re-evaluated, keeping in mind the fact that Zdenek was town.

That...doesn't seem right. Is this scum flailing for an answer and finding it in the last post? You decide.

1. Is OMGUS, even of the phantom pre-emptive type, a scum-tell?
2. Why do you keep trying to drum up VI-protection for yourself by saying you are an easy lynch?

1. Yes, what I consider OMGUS, I consider a scum-tell as well.
2. This is not VI-protection unless that's what you make it. My post that you have quoted is not a defense, but rather an attack.

Hey vollkan, next time I'd appreciate if you let MAGNA respond to my post directed at MAGNA. Thanks.

Still waiting, Magna.

Not buying this. This looks incredibly dodgy considering the sheer magnitude of material written by vollkan and directed at you. Whether he should have posted what he did when he did should not have a chance of invalidating anything he posted.

[danakillsu]

1. Yes, what I consider OMGUS, I consider a scum-tell as well.

So give me a working definition of what you consider OMGUS. I’d like to know what specifically in bvoigts post was a scum-tell.

2. This is not VI-protection unless that's what you make it. My post that you have quoted is not a defense, but rather an attack.

You can call it an attack if you wish but centering your ‘attack’ on the premise that you are an easy lynch is crappy. You joked about having a wagon on you immediately after replacing in. Now part of your attack on bvoigt is that he is chosing you as an ‘easy’ lynch. Do you have common history with bvoigt that indicated he has mislynched you as Town in the past?

My definition of OMGUS is: any vote that is cast with little to no reasoning against a player who is currently expressing suspicion against you.
No I do not have such a common history, but what I point out is common knowledge, so he would still know. I'm not centering my attack on that as far as I know, just throwing it out there as a side note.

[danakillsu]

1. Yes, what I consider OMGUS, I consider a scum-tell as well.

So give me a working definition of what you consider OMGUS. I’d like to know what specifically in bvoigts post was a scum-tell.

2. This is not VI-protection unless that's what you make it. My post that you have quoted is not a defense, but rather an attack.

You can call it an attack if you wish but centering your ‘attack’ on the premise that you are an easy lynch is crappy. You joked about having a wagon on you immediately after replacing in. Now part of your attack on bvoigt is that he is chosing you as an ‘easy’ lynch. Do you have common history with bvoigt that indicated he has mislynched you as Town in the past?

My definition of OMGUS is: any vote that is cast with little to no reasoning against a player who is currently expressing suspicion against you.
No I do not have such a common history, but what I point out is common knowledge, so he would still know. I'm not centering my attack on that as far as I know, just throwing it out there as a side note.

1) Why is that sort of OMGUS as bvoigt did it scummy? Suspecting a person who suspects you is a natural bias to have; it is completely illogical and should be opposed vehemently when people do it, but it's also wrong to treat it as inherently scummy.

2) I wasn't aware that you are a an easy lynch, and after some of my recent experiences with VIs (PSA: run away from vezokpiraka and drmyshottyisk), I wouldn't have picked you as one. Dismsising this as a "side note" is incredibly weak, given that the main reason you voted him seemed to be him pre-emptively OMGUSing you because he wanted an easy lynch.

1) It is scummy because only scum would know that the person opposing them is actually their enemy as far as alignment, which would make them want to frame their opponent.
2) You're the first person to say this, but perhaps the knowledge is not as common as I thought. Ask Fate or SocioPath, and they'll answer without hesitation that I am an easy lynch or even a VI. Most people do not consider me the latter, but do consider me the former.

[danakillsu]

To continue this completely off-topic discussion, I personally do not consider dmsis to be a VI, although he can be annoying at times.

[danakillsu]

Unvote

Vote: Dana

I've been thinking about Dana's "I'm an easy lynch" for a long time and he keeps on niggling at me like crazy. It doesn't strike me as a natural thing that town would act on.

Someone says something along those lines in pretty much every game I play. It's almost a tradition. And there's always someone who finds it scummy (whether on my part or on someone else's because they said it in my defense). I guess history really does repeat itself. So to put it concisely, I'm not really worried about this vote. You'll come around in time.

[danakillsu]

Sweet. More bvoigt votes plz.

[danakillsu]

Those quote tags are so messed up and the words you use are so weird that I have no idea who you are talking to or what about, vollkan.
@ ReaperCharlie
Your ignoring of my statement of bvoigt's scumminess since Day 1, which was before I had a wagon on me, is noted.

[danakillsu]

@ MoI
No, I don't specifically remember doing that or where it happened if it did.
@ Katsuki
What? I don't recall saying you were probscum or anything.
@ All
SensFan is insane. That doesn't mean you should ignore him, but he is making no sense. The RC wagon looks scum-driven and evil.

[danakillsu]

And if someone's good, that means you should follow them?

Don't confuse what I said. I didn't speak in the general; we're talking specifics. We're talking about one player who happens to be a very good scumhunter, one who I know I can't read in a vacuum if my life depended on it. I also never said I would "follow" her. For now, I'll gladly listen to her reads on people. If she's Scum, she has buddies we can deal with for the time being. Once a scumbag or two flips, we can revisit the question of DGB, based on their behaviour towards her.

Whatever, I guess this is reasonable.

Perfect example of scum backing down.

Possibly even from his scumbuddy.

LYNCH AT WILL.

It'd be cool if people were active enough for this to actually happen.

[danakillsu]

Dana, if you really want the game to pick up you should vote Reaper.

This is pure fail. I don't vote likely town because people tell me to or because it'll lynch a player faster.

[danakillsu]

Dana, if you really want the game to pick up you should vote Reaper.

This is pure fail. I don't vote likely town because people tell me to or because it'll lynch a player faster.

Is it fair to say that you're more concerned with not voting town than lynching scum?

No. I want to kill scum in any way I can, and if I felt that voting town would do so, then I would vote town. But I see no such thing here, so I'm not doing it.

[danakillsu]

SensFan is insane. That doesn't mean you should ignore him, but he is making no sense. The RC wagon looks scum-driven and evil.

Who specifically on the wagon is scum? I’d like names and reasons.

It'd be cool if people were active enough for this to actually happen.

So what exactly are you doing to make the lynch ‘you want’ happen? Complaining about activity certainly isn’t helping to sway anyone else to lynch bvoigt.

1) I don't know any specific scum yet other than bvoigt. I'm just saying the wagon doesn't look like a town wagon.
2) Lolwut? I state why nothing I do to make the lynch I want happen matters and you ask me why I'm not doing more?

[danakillsu]

Oh yeah, I forgot he was still alive, but Zdenek is also scum. Forgot to mention that in my last post.

[danakillsu]

1) I don't know any specific scum yet other than bvoigt. I'm just saying the wagon doesn't look like a town wagon.

Even though your strongest "scumread" has said that RC is town, you still think RC's wagon is driven by scum?

Oh yeah, I forgot he was still alive, but Zdenek is also scum. Forgot to mention that in my last post.

Wait, what? Do you mean Xdaamno?

Why is it that you and MoI think that I have to have a read on a specific person to call a wagon scum-driven? It doesn't always work that way.
No, I don't mean Xdaamno.

[danakillsu]

Why is it that you and MoI think that I have to have a read on a specific person to call a wagon scum-driven? It doesn't always work that way.

Well, I'd think that if you, as town, said a wagon was scum-driven, you'd be trying to figure out who on the wagon is scum and go after them.

No, I don't mean Xdaamno.

Who do you mean, then? Zdenek was lynched.

1) I am trying to figure that out, but haven't yet.
2) So he is dead. I must have this confused with another game. I need to stop posting tonight before I say something else stupid.

[danakillsu]

Unvote

Vote: bvoigt

Time's up, kid.

Scummiest thing in the thread.

[danakillsu]

RC's replace out is not suspect to me. He's been slow to respond to some of my PMs lately about the game we're modding together. I think he doesn't have much time to spare right now.
I'm not really sure where to go as far as scumhunting right now, because people have actually listened to me this game, and I've been wrong (which is pretty unusual, at least twice in a row). So I'll reread and stuff, and see if I can come up with something.

[danakillsu]

What’s unusual – that you were wrong twice in a row or that people listened to you twice in a row?

Both are incredibly unusual.

[danakillsu]

I'm not making excuses at all. I was wrong, and take responsibility for it. I agree that DGB and SensFan are not the lynch for today and I'm going to iso RC.

[danakillsu]

Alright, here's the main thing I find really weird about RC. He was REALLY REALLY adamant about two things: bvoigt being scum and Zdenek not being scum. That seems kinda strange, because Zdenek seemed really scummy to me. In fact, they both did. I'm not exactly sure what this says to me, but a tactic experienced scum might use would be to tunnel on one townie and buddy another really hard to throw the town of the trail.

[danakillsu]

Ok, so the statement about Sens’s hammer you made at the end of Day 2 was just for grins and had no real relation to your thoughts on Sens?

No. I said that his hammer was the single scummiest thing in the thread and I stand by that. However, looking at his posts as a whole, he's not the lynch for today. This seems like kind of an easy misrep to avoid, so I don't know why you're doing it.
I really want to see where this leads, though.

vote: pappums rat

[danakillsu]

@pappums
I didn't majorly change my read on your slot, I just wanted to see what some pressure would do, because there was the aforementioned discrepancy on RC's part. My suspicions are alleviated by what I see as a very townie post on your part.

unvote

Then again, I'm kinda disappointed, because now I have no leads.

[danakillsu]

I believe SensFan is correct, and I have nothing to lose for the town by claiming, and believe it is a NL situation.

vote: no lynch

I am a VT.

[danakillsu]

And I'm popcorning pappumsrat.

[danakillsu]

@ MoI
Well, yes, I found that post very townie, but everything since then has been really scummy. I'm gonna wait to see the other claims before voting, though.

[danakillsu]

Well, two examples would be your weird aversion to claiming as a "VT" and your popcorning of someone you apparently don't suspect that much.

[danakillsu]

@ mod
Surely Katsuki is due for a prod or something.

[danakillsu]

Lynching the rat seems fine to me.

[danakillsu]

Yeah, I agree. We should lynch today, at this point.

[danakillsu]

vote: pappumsrat

We must simply hope he is scum at this point.
OFF-TOPIC:
SensFan, why did you flake from Blackest Night? I've been having a heckuva time replacing you.

[danakillsu]

................
No offense, LMP, because I'm sure others disagree, but I hated the setup. I don't know how town was going to win with a cop that could (and did) actually hurt us, and a bulletproof, when one of the scum could even find those roles. Not to take anything away from the scum, they did an excellent job. But even if they hadn't, they might have won just as easily.
Good modding, though. If someone else had created the setup, I'd give you an A. Overall, it's probably a B-.

[danakillsu]

Yeah, LMP, I would have definitely gone with the first 3. 4) would not be necessary.

[danakillsu]

Was updating the queue and saw:

MagnaofIllusion

theplague42

-

Mafia Goon

survived to endgame.
DrippingGoofball

Shattered Viewpoint

-

Mafia Traitor Rolecop

survived to endgame.
Xdaamno -

Mafia Goon

survived to endgame.

Hell, that's just not even fair.

Inorite?